Config
Log for #openttd on 10th February 2012:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:04:24  <planetmaker> good night
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02:01:03  <Vault2> quiet
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08:35:32  <andythenorth> mornint()
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08:54:29  * andythenorth ponders
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09:00:16  <andythenorth> truck weight = length * constant * multiplier (set on per vehicle)
09:00:22  <andythenorth> ^ bit fricking magical no?
09:00:46  <andythenorth> bit 'fiddle magic numbers to get the result I want' ?
09:01:17  <dihedral> if length = 1m and 1m = 100KG * multiplier
09:01:54  <andythenorth> yup
09:01:58  <dihedral> i shall specify a multiplier of 0 for my ufo-truck-road-flyer-thingy
09:02:09  <andythenorth> :)
09:04:49  * andythenorth ponders varying the weight by type of truck body
09:05:07  <andythenorth> flat deck is lighter than refrigerated trailer
09:05:11  <andythenorth> but meh
09:05:17  <andythenorth> too fine grained :P
09:14:24  <andythenorth> hmm
09:14:31  <andythenorth> length * constant * truck type
09:14:34  <andythenorth> will do
09:22:42  <planetmaker> truck weight = length * truck_specific_constant * introduction_year / base_costs
09:22:53  <planetmaker> or simplified to truck_weight = truck_specific_constant
09:23:30  <planetmaker> if you have a per-vehicle factor you can skip all calculation and set weight directly
09:23:40  <planetmaker> All else is just making it magically complex without adding clarity
09:24:09  <peter1138> separate trailers! train-like depot!
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09:26:33  <andythenorth> planetmaker: +1 on the badness of magic
09:27:12  <andythenorth> if I have to set magic multipliers, might as well just set weight :P
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09:32:57  <andythenorth> "There is no problem that cannot be made worse with another layer of indirection"
09:36:34  <planetmaker> andythenorth: in case of doubt you want to get a guide value by a formula. And fill in the actually used weight by hand directly which includes implicitly a "magic" andy-factor wrt the table-value based on your judgement what would fit
09:36:49  <planetmaker> thus: use a guide. But not a formula
09:40:47  <andythenorth> or I make it entirely derived, which I'm testing
09:40:55  <andythenorth> but not some mix of manually set / derived
09:40:57  <andythenorth> that would be horrible
09:41:19  <planetmaker> exactly :-)
09:41:37  <andythenorth> I've mixed set / derived for run cost, I'm not sure it's wise
09:42:13  <andythenorth> maybe I should remove that and just set run cost directly
09:43:11  <andythenorth> but then...what is the direct value for run cost? :o
09:43:24  <planetmaker> the property value
09:44:19  * andythenorth does ponder
09:47:41  * Rhamphoryncus wonders if delayed departure due to sudden extra loading breaks timetables too
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11:49:32  <__ln__> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/428318_363905890304143_183457778348956_1362409_1249050976_n.jpg
11:57:56  <andythenorth> bah
11:58:04  * andythenorth has 100 emails to read and reply to
11:58:19  * andythenorth likes work, but mostly when it involves making the internet
11:58:26  <andythenorth> not when it involves email
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13:01:43  <peter1138> is your penis a porpoise?
13:03:10  <andythenorth> is yours?
13:04:55  <peter1138> not today
13:05:10  <MNIM> why, it is on saturdays?
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13:18:52  <Stimrol_> hello, I had my openttd server hacked yesterday. Someone came in and joined all the password protected companies and destroyed them. I thought this was not possible. How can I prevent this?
13:19:58  <Ammler> Stimrol_: did you restart the server before?
13:20:15  <Stimrol_> I have searched google for answer but nothing there.
13:20:35  <Ammler> company passwords do not survive a reload
13:21:03  <Stimrol_> No, there was a user I know logged in while this was happening and he said that all the companies where still with passwords
13:21:40  <MNIM> ...why would one hack an ottd server? :S
13:21:43  <peter1138> "destroyed" in what way?
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13:22:07  <Ammler> MNIM: does not really matter, does it?
13:22:13  <Stimrol_> Even his company was taken over and everything removed and the landscape destroyed to spend the money
13:22:25  * MNIM blarghs at griefers everywhere
13:22:38  <Stimrol_> mnim you do it because you can i suspect
13:22:39  <peter1138> autoclean can remove companies
13:22:53  <peter1138> and if someone knows your rcon password, they can switch companies too
13:22:59  <MNIM> apparently.
13:23:03  <Stimrol_> they where not removed, and I could see the changes in the landscape
13:23:20  <peter1138> MNIM, griefing and trolling are a popular internet pasttime
13:23:21  <Ammler> true, maybe he knew the rcon pw
13:23:22  <planetmaker> still. With the rcon pw known one can move oneself to any company
13:23:38  <Stimrol_> rcon password is blank
13:23:45  <MNIM> in all my life, I still don't understand people who wantonly waste time just to make someone angry.
13:23:46  <planetmaker> it's a good password then ;-)
13:24:20  <planetmaker> I'd say the fault is then that no password was set for rcon
13:24:31  <Ammler> planetmaker: no, that would be a bug
13:24:31  <Stimrol_> don't you need another port to connect to rcon and is not rcon disabled if it has blank password?
13:24:46  <planetmaker> it should indeed. Not sure it is
13:24:47  <Ammler> we don't set rcon pw on our server either
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13:25:30  <Ammler> hehe, maybe we should check it :-)
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13:26:25  <Stimrol_> :) yes maybe we should, I was under the impression that if it was blank it worked like ubuntu root password, nobody knows that password if it has not been set
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13:27:03  <planetmaker> well. Maybe you can easily check?
13:27:17  <MNIM> uhh, how does one *not* set a root password? :S
13:27:21  <Stimrol_> rcon pass and admin pass are blank on my server
13:27:32  <MNIM> I mean, you can disable your root account, but you still need a root password.
13:28:20  <Stimrol_> ubuntu users use sudo to access root, and you can also do sudo root and then need no password.
13:28:42  <Stimrol_> except your own password
13:29:31  <Stimrol_> maybe I am doing mistake to have admin_password and rcon_password blank
13:29:58  <Stimrol_> nick Stimrol
13:30:03  *** Stimrol_ is now known as Stimrol
13:30:06  <Stimrol> :)
13:30:52  <andythenorth> this is possibly interesting http://vimeo.com/9270320
13:31:11  <Ammler> Stimrol: we can at least confirm that empty pw still does disable rcon
13:31:58  <Stimrol> thanks, I thought so but never checked :)
13:32:21  <Sacro> MNIM: you put in an invalid hash in /etc/shadow
13:32:57  <Ammler> Stimrol: can't you ask the "Hacker" how he did it?
13:33:01  <Stimrol> My friend who was on the server said this user came in and knew what he was doing, he joined the companies removed everything they built and changed the landscape a lot to finish their money
13:33:07  <MNIM> isn't that much like building a burglary proof house and then encasing the door in molten steel? :S
13:33:52  <peter1138> probably the companies weren't password protected. most likely explanation
13:34:18  <Ammler> and your friend simply wasn't aware of
13:34:27  <Stimrol> I would like to :), but one problem there is no log (i have not found any) and what happened had cleared my screen (was not in the buffer any more)
13:34:28  <Ammler> do not trust him ;-)
13:34:29  <peter1138> aware of what?
13:34:41  <Ammler> that the companies aren't passworded
13:34:45  <planetmaker> then my best bet is ^^
13:35:16  <peter1138> you should learn to finish your sentences, ammler :p
13:35:32  <Stimrol> that is a slight possibility that he was wrong about that, but I dopt it because it was like four companies all destroyed
13:35:41  <Ammler> well, I was continuing yours :-P
13:35:46  <Stimrol> hehe
13:35:46  <planetmaker> your best protection is a) having an admin around or responding to admin requests and b) logging at least who joined
13:35:54  <planetmaker> and banning the IPs, if needed
13:36:49  <Stimrol> is there a way to have a log that logs who comes in and so, openttd --help does not show me that option
13:37:04  <Ammler> we piple console output to a file
13:37:18  <planetmaker> ./openttd -D | tee -a game.log
13:38:57  <peter1138> when did he check the companies were passworded?
13:39:03  <peter1138> the attacker could easily just have set one
13:40:15  <Stimrol> most likly they where with passwords because it was like 1960 and I start the server 1900 and I had not resetted the map
13:40:58  <Stimrol> when I came and saw this, then the users where trying to rebuild their companies, so no passwords where changed
13:41:35  <planetmaker> oh, if you're inside a company you don't notice a PW change
13:41:53  <Stimrol> Yes now I am sure they had password, because I remember joining one with pass
13:41:57  <planetmaker> and companies only have PWs set, if the users have PWs
13:42:54  <Stimrol> there was only one loged in while this happened, so another user logged in afterward and his pass had not been changed
13:46:02  <Stimrol> but thanks people, maybe I will sometime find out how this was done and how to prevent it
13:53:57  <Ammler> don't forget to bugreport
13:58:02  <Stimrol> yes, if I find something
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14:57:51  <Belugas> hello
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15:13:46  <andythenorth> lo Belugas sir
15:13:54  <andythenorth> is sir French?
15:15:02  <Belugas> good question
15:15:10  <Belugas> hello to you too, andythenorth
15:15:12  <Belugas> i think so
15:15:19  <Belugas> sir, been french..
15:15:36  <andythenorth> hrm
15:15:39  <Belugas> just that t's extremely rare that you call someone "sir" in french :)
15:15:43  <andythenorth> sir = monsieur
15:15:50  * andythenorth remembers french :P
15:16:01  <andythenorth> monsieur Belugas !
15:16:06  * andythenorth back to work
15:16:15  <andythenorth> filling out security audits
15:16:17  <andythenorth> such larks
15:17:02  <Belugas> well, if you are talking to me, please upper case the M of Monsieur.  I'm not just anybody, me!
15:17:04  <Belugas> hem...
15:17:05  <Belugas> joking...
15:18:11  <andythenorth> do you have a backup generator?  How much fuel does it hold?
15:18:16  <andythenorth> how often is it refuelled?
15:18:23  <andythenorth> hrrm
15:18:29  <planetmaker> hello BELUGAS!
15:18:35  <planetmaker> (enough caps :-P ? )
15:18:40  <andythenorth> MOAR CAPS
15:19:10  <planetmaker> how often is the fuel for the caps lock key refueled?
15:20:07  <andythenorth> often
15:20:16  <andythenorth> "please state the frequency"
15:20:23  <andythenorth> grr
15:21:25  <andythenorth> "we do not own the co-lo, we have a contract with 99.9% uptime guarantee and guaranteeing physical security"
15:21:32  <andythenorth> why can't I just put that? :P
15:21:47  * andythenorth is example of legalistic, blame passing culture :P
15:21:58  <Belugas> Mister planetmaker, ya salute ya!
15:24:50  * andythenorth wonders if he can spend rest of day converting FISH to pynml
15:24:57  <andythenorth> what would the boss say?
15:25:15  <Belugas> as long as he doe snot see what you're doing, nothing!
15:26:30  <andythenorth> he watches me all day
15:26:41  <andythenorth> all the time I am awake, he can see me
15:26:47  <planetmaker> is he sitting in your chair?
15:26:56  <andythenorth> if I'm sitting there, he is sitting there :(
15:27:07  <andythenorth> anyone else work for themselves?
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15:32:32  <Belugas> not me, for sure!
15:33:17  <Belugas> that's one of the [problems I had devving from work.  Pascal and C++ do not have excatly the same "shape", so it's quite easy you're not doing work@work...
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17:50:01  * andythenorth ponders
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19:28:11  <frosch123> what? was the forum offline all day? why is there no new posts in suggestions or problems forum?
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19:33:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23921 /trunk/src/lang/ (english_AU.txt estonian.txt french.txt latvian.txt):
19:33:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:33:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_AU - 5 changes by tomas4g
19:33:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 55 changes by Jaanus
19:33:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 13 changes by OliTTD
19:33:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 1 changes by Parastais
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19:48:38  <Alberth> all questions were clear to all :p
19:53:45  <Terkhen> hello
19:54:06  <Alberth> hello Terkhen
19:57:16  <andythenorth> frosch123: maybe the world ended, but we didn't notice?
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19:57:46  <andythenorth> also...no replies to my python+nml thread :o
19:57:51  <andythenorth> definitely, the world ended
19:58:04  <Alberth> perhaps the internet died
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19:59:53  * Alberth makes some tea
20:00:33  <frosch123> evening fellow zombies .)
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20:04:51  * andythenorth wonders if he should code BROS
20:05:05  <andythenorth> possibly that would lead to bad comments
20:05:11  <andythenorth> mostly by me
20:05:51  <supermop> do it before anyone has a chance to say anything
20:10:44  <Terkhen> andythenorth: code the spain set :)
20:12:01  <Ammler> spain set has 32bpp sprites too :-)
20:14:17  <andythenorth> Terkhen: is no-one coding the spain set already?
20:15:57  <Terkhen> maquinista is coding it, but busy with RL IIRC
20:16:03  <Terkhen> so I'll have to be patient :P
20:16:32  <andythenorth> is it nml or nfo?
20:16:33  <Alberth> or find more coders ;)
20:16:59  <Terkhen> decompiled nfo :D
20:17:04  <Terkhen> with no repo
20:17:19  <supermop> give me a week more drawing and you can code a monorail set for me
20:17:55  <andythenorth> Terkhen: convert it to nml
20:18:41  <Terkhen> I'll wait a few more months
20:18:45  <Terkhen> it's not like I can play now anyways
20:19:30  <andythenorth> bah
20:19:37  <andythenorth> how do I compile with nml?
20:19:47  <andythenorth> pure nmlc, no makefile
20:19:55  <Alberth> nmlc  foo.nml
20:20:37  <andythenorth> tada
20:20:45  <andythenorth> so no switches needed :P
20:20:54  <Alberth> you can see the options by using   nmlc -h, but it does not have many
20:21:23  * andythenorth was overcomplicating it
20:22:13  <Alberth> you forgot the --i-need-more-options  option?
20:23:32  <andythenorth> --null :P
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21:35:08  <Wolf01> hello
21:36:18  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
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23:52:03  <Terkhen> good night
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