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00:04:18 *** chester [~chester@128-72-112-143.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:04:56 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:05:49 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B54F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:57 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6a49.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:23 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 00:21:24 <Terkhen> good night 00:24:32 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 00:25:42 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:26:19 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:36:12 <Wolf01> 'night 00:36:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host101-141-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:36:41 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:36:41 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:37:54 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:02 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 00:41:47 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-23-220.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:46:31 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-32-42.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:46:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 00:47:23 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 00:47:37 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-67-245.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:48:10 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 00:49:55 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-33-68.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:49:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 00:50:37 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-23-220.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:51:09 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:52:50 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 00:55:07 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-32-42.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:56:56 <planetmaker> g'night 00:58:15 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 01:00:56 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 01:02:27 <Zuu> Note to self: test library code before uploading to banans :-) 01:03:55 *** KritiK [~Maxim@128-68-97-228.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:04:12 <Zuu> Ironically, I have added more sub libraries to the NoGo edition of SuperLib which hasn't had very much testing in NoGo context. Though by doing so it will make it easier for me and others to test and see what works and what doesn't. :-) 01:04:18 <xiong> Well. I'm quite certain the center tile of a 3x3 block is reluctant to build. I've definitely observed backsliding, too; where after the center builds and I remove the access road, later the center becomes grass again. This happens even in the central 16 blocks of a town now at pop. > 80,000. This just doesn't seem right. I've seen a house build as far as 3 tiles from any road. 01:13:11 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:13:29 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:14:28 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 01:17:07 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:21:09 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@154.Red-83-52-212.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:27:15 *** Firartix [~artixds@38.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:29:55 <Zuu> Looks like chapter_ships.nut has became 100 lines shorter now. :-) 01:30:39 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:32:54 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 01:40:55 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:41:57 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.252.118] has joined #openttd 01:44:06 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 01:44:31 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:47:35 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:01 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 01:52:35 *** Mazur is now known as Guest3106 01:54:16 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:54:33 *** Guest3106 is now known as Mazur 01:55:19 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:57:00 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:59:27 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 01:59:28 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@cm-188.126.201.147.customer.telag.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:28 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:07:50 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:10:18 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 02:17:46 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18:20 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:19:58 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-097-021.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:20:43 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-043-218.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 02:21:47 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:22:23 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 02:26:30 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:30:24 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:30:51 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:33:20 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 02:34:36 *** scottbob9 [02d8d994@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:37:36 <scottbob9> Hi, i am running openttd dedicated server and cannot get shares to work. I have edited the openttd.cfg file and it still does not work. any ideas? 02:41:39 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:45:50 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 02:50:54 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:54:04 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:54:55 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:06 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 02:57:08 <Stimrol_> hello, do anyone know what happened to this setting in openttd.cfg, why is it not longer there 1.1.5 --> [station] nonuniform_stations 02:57:31 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:58:03 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 02:58:12 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 03:02:50 <Stimrol_> ahh found it, google my friend, added forum to the search then I found it 03:02:52 <Stimrol_> - Remove: The non-uniform stations setting; it has been broken for over a year, and thus not used [FS#4456] (r21953) 03:03:09 <Stimrol_> Sad that this do not work :( 03:03:33 * appe breaks the somewhat autism-induced discussions with a great gift of poop to everyone. 03:04:47 <appe> right there, on the floor 03:04:51 <appe> its my gift to you 03:04:55 <appe> now build train tracks around it. 03:06:45 <Rhamphoryncus> Build pointless tracks around it? What do you think this is, minecraft? 03:07:34 <appe> pointless? 03:07:51 <appe> my stool deserves nothing more then being turned into efficient energy 03:08:03 <appe> wich would require proper logistics 03:08:30 <Rhamphoryncus> That sounds like a different industry set 03:08:36 <appe> its a new grf. 03:08:59 <Rhamphoryncus> Featuring: the product of appe's asshole. 03:10:06 <appe> since my gastronomical features is somewhat swedish, id guess we have to set the proper logistics to mineral wagons. 03:10:33 <appe> in goes beer and coal, and out goes liberalism and swag. 03:10:48 <appe> preferably exported to citys. 03:11:24 <appe> bah, nuff' with the lame jokes. 03:11:27 <appe> i need to get to bed. 03:11:31 <appe> have a good one 03:12:03 <Rhamphoryncus> yeah, I was bailing on that conversation. Cya 03:21:28 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:22:49 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 03:23:57 *** scottbob9 [02d8d994@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 03:29:34 <Stimrol_> This was strange, all production of I think all mines for all users went down 50% for one or two years 03:29:40 <Stimrol_> and then slowly up 03:30:11 *** Stimrol_ is now known as Stimrol 03:35:07 <Rhamphoryncus> Stimrol: economic downturn 03:35:29 <Stimrol> what is that 03:36:33 <Stimrol> is that part of the programming that this happens or is this some bug? 03:37:46 <xiong> Stimrol, economic recession. Feature. 03:38:06 <xiong> All production cut in half. 03:39:00 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:39:03 <xiong> http://wiki.openttd.org/Economy#Recession 03:39:08 <Stimrol> okey, random thing I like that, but I cant find anything about in settings 03:39:43 <xiong> Not an Advanced Setting. A Difficulty setting. 03:40:03 <Stimrol> ahh nice, I like this 03:40:28 <Stimrol> Did not find it on google because I didn't know the word for it 03:40:29 <xiong> Join the club. I've occasionally thrashed around for half an hour looking for an Advanced Setting before I remembered to check Difficulty instead. 03:40:34 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 03:41:16 <xiong> I've demonstrated that the rate of backsliding is higher than the rate of fill-in. I say 3x3 is broken. 03:41:22 <Stimrol> thank you, happy I found this irc channel, good if you have some wondering 03:41:59 <xiong> Do I file a but against the game itself or against the town set? Does town set affect building at all? Should I run a test game with no NewGRFs? 03:42:59 <Rhamphoryncus> Stimrol: it does actually tell you when a recession starts, but I've missed it too 03:43:17 <Stimrol> ohh it does 03:43:23 <Stimrol> missed it :) 03:44:03 <Stimrol> xiong what is this, are you asking me because of my question? 03:47:25 <xiong> Stimrol, my question is totally unrelated to your question, sorry. 03:47:44 <Stimrol> np 03:48:03 <xiong> For a couple of weeks now, I've been trying to understand why the center tile of a so-called 3x3 grid block rarely builds. I'm now convinced it's just not right. 03:48:43 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:8023:c6c8:b61d:b73] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:48:54 <xiong> I've upgraded, tested, tried temporary access roads. Nothing works -- that is, no strategy overcomes the rate of backsliding, where a formerly built center tile returns to grass. 03:49:45 <Stimrol> a same here 3x4 two middle is missing, i have some newgrfs 03:52:31 <Stimrol> I think Nars change my houses, think that is the only grf that affected my houses 04:00:40 <xiong> 3x4 definitely is not worth anything; you pay every possible price. 04:00:50 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:02:06 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 04:03:43 <xiong> 3x4 block is really 4x5 grid; that's 8 road tiles for 12 buildable tiles, except two won't build; so you end up with 10 tiles built, for an efficiency of 50%. That's exactly what you get with 3x3, with the center unbuilt. Also you have the inconvenience of a different repetition X and Y. 04:05:00 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.252.118] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:05:55 <xiong> I've seen a few cities laid out with very long 2xN sections. This approaches 67% efficiency. 04:06:42 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:07:15 <xiong> Of course, then you have the question of how your road vehicles get around. I like roads every 4 tiles; it's easy to lay out, it's sane, sensible, looks reasonable. If only it worked.... 04:09:16 <Stimrol> but it doesn't and gives you blank middle :( 04:16:32 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 04:18:20 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:20:02 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 04:20:15 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-043-218.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 04:22:47 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:23:50 *** kkb110__ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 04:24:54 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:32:09 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:34:30 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 04:42:35 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:44:38 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 04:52:39 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:54:34 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 05:02:38 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:04:27 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 05:12:29 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:15:12 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 05:23:15 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:25:05 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 05:33:08 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:35:36 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 05:43:21 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:43:39 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:46:32 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 05:54:34 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:21 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 06:04:22 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:06:38 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 06:14:43 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:17:26 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 06:22:51 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@60-241-89-135.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:25:28 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:26:27 <Rhamphoryncus> that's.. not.. good. Testing out my timetable patch with a pax game and a couple years in what do I do? Give all my trains a conditional order jump to control maintenance. 06:27:26 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 06:29:03 <Rhamphoryncus> Maybe a way to control what orders are timetabled.. or a way to have sub-routes. 06:29:15 <Rhamphoryncus> Something to sleep on. 06:29:17 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 06:31:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:39:33 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:40:26 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:41:52 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 06:43:34 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74229.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 06:43:54 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72C58.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:53:39 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 06:53:59 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:55:47 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 07:03:48 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:05:39 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 07:06:30 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:07:48 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:17:49 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:19:37 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 07:27:39 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:29:24 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 07:37:27 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:39:28 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 07:42:00 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:51:42 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:52:19 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 08:00:22 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:00:30 <andythenorth> hmm 08:00:38 * andythenorth needs a list to return in a predictable order 08:00:48 <andythenorth> oops 08:00:56 * andythenorth needs a dict to return in a predictable order 08:01:10 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 08:03:15 <andythenorth> solved (ugly) 08:04:36 *** belated [literalka@im.juped.and.imgay.ru] has joined #openttd 08:06:16 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-3-153.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:10:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B8BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:12:20 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-33-68.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:13:19 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:13:31 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-79-133.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:13:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 08:15:00 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 08:17:50 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-3-153.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:20:53 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:22:16 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-169-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:27:58 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 08:28:20 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-79-133.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:30:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:31:18 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:32:04 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 08:35:34 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:40:09 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:41:30 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 08:41:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:43:02 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:44:39 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-98-237.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:53:39 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:54:08 <andythenorth> hmm 08:54:26 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 08:54:30 <andythenorth> my png names are getting insanely long 08:54:32 <andythenorth> 7_8_tipping_trailer_drawbar_cc1_IORE.png 08:55:54 <Pulec> ban belated 08:57:12 <Pulec> damn i have to set longer timeout, this server falls frequently 09:00:28 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has joined #openttd 09:00:48 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:04:49 <Rubidium> Pulec: you setting longer timeouts won't help; you're disconnected from the IRC server's side 09:06:07 <Pulec> it didnt disconnected me before 09:06:29 <Pulec> I had set timeout for about 6 minutes 09:10:23 <Rubidium> well, you're very regularly "ping timeout"-ing 09:10:46 <Rubidium> and generally if a connection isn't back after a minute, it's lost 09:13:34 <andythenorth> how droll 09:13:51 <andythenorth> I'm passing an object to a function defined on a child object of the object 09:14:10 <andythenorth> so effectively I'm passing the object back into itself in some insane recursive fashion :P 09:15:29 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:18:21 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 09:27:08 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:27:37 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 09:35:42 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:37:01 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 09:40:34 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:41:33 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 09:45:04 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:45:43 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-30-60.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:45:46 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 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Mail support@oftc.net with questions (2012-02-19 09:00:08)] 09:48:55 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 09:49:58 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-169-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:56:59 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:00:10 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 10:08:12 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:09:03 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.211] has joined #openttd 10:09:23 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 10:10:02 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.211] has quit [] 10:13:34 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:17:24 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:19:26 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 10:20:17 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120216100510]] 10:25:09 *** Firartix [~artixds@38.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 10:27:29 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:29:27 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 10:32:08 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 10:37:08 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 10:40:05 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:41:33 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:41:55 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 10:42:35 <Terkhen> good morning 10:43:12 <andythenorth> hola 10:45:48 *** cmircea_ [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has joined #openttd 10:46:54 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:48:41 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:49:04 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:49:59 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:50:02 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 10:50:15 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:51:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:54:32 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:45 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:58:25 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:58:29 <planetmaker> moin 10:58:56 <Terkhen> hi planetmaker 10:59:43 <planetmaker> btw, 1st round of votes for the title game is up now :-) 10:59:52 <Alberth> moin all 10:59:59 <planetmaker> IMHO average quality of submissions is better than last year :-) 11:00:00 <Terkhen> hi Alberth 11:00:05 <planetmaker> hi Terkhen & alberth 11:00:24 * Terkhen will check it this later :) 11:00:44 <Alberth> so many things to do, so little time :p 11:01:29 <planetmaker> :-) yeah 11:02:13 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:03:47 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 11:11:49 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:12:01 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.171] has joined #openttd 11:13:36 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 11:15:17 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.69.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:25:52 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:27:08 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 11:27:30 <Alberth> Pulec: could you please fix your connection? 11:32:33 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 11:33:57 <Pulec> I am sorry, will try it soon as possible, just finnish some long download 11:34:12 <Pulec> for the time being I will quit reconecting 11:34:25 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has left #openttd [] 11:39:50 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:43:39 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:43:46 <Zuu> planetmaker: Oh, you made me think that you had presented the results of round1. :-) 11:44:02 <planetmaker> Zuu: sorry, not yet :-) 11:44:16 <planetmaker> and I'm afraid I think I shouldn't even comment on the current standings 11:44:19 <Zuu> I see that voting ends 29 feb. 11:44:38 <planetmaker> yeah. Same schedule as last year basically 11:44:39 <Zuu> Indeed, you shouldn't. 11:44:50 <planetmaker> 14 days for this round for people to make up their mind 11:50:56 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@60-241-89-135.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [] 11:54:21 *** Firartix [~artixds@38.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:55:41 *** Firartix [~artixds@38.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 12:06:44 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-237-225.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:09:56 <Alberth> hi 12:12:59 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:21:59 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@cm-188.126.201.147.customer.telag.net] has joined #openttd 12:24:01 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 12:24:02 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:41:04 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:25 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:43:03 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 12:46:27 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:50:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:52:11 * andythenorth ponders 12:53:24 <FLHerne> Auto-generated ships? 12:57:09 <andythenorth> considered it 12:57:27 <andythenorth> tmwftlb 12:58:05 <FLHerne> erm...something even stranger then? 12:58:07 <andythenorth> could draw the stern / prow, then generate the middle part of the hull 12:58:10 <andythenorth> but...no 12:58:19 <peter1138> voxels! 12:59:03 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:59:37 * andythenorth chokes on tea 12:59:44 <andythenorth> cubicles! 13:00:02 <andythenorth> someone showed me minecraft (again) the other day btw 13:00:15 <andythenorth> probably best I don't look too closely at minecraft 13:00:19 <andythenorth> looks like it could....suck time 13:00:41 <FLHerne> It does. Seriously. 13:01:08 <LordAro> i would second that comment 13:01:20 <FLHerne> I spent quite some time building a fax machine out of m^3 blocks... 13:03:02 <LordAro> TrueBrain: de.binaries.openttd.org appears to be non-functional 13:03:35 <orudge> It looks like a network issue; I can access it from another German server of mine, but that's with the same ISP 13:03:41 <orudge> can't access it from outside that network 13:03:51 <LordAro> FLHerne: i'm more interested in the redstone aspect myself 13:05:05 <LordAro> orudge: did i steal your bug report? :P 13:05:19 <FLHerne> It had a LOT of redstone. Encoded patterns made out of wool and transmitted as binary. 13:05:26 <orudge> LordAro: well, I reported it directly about two minutes before you :p 13:05:32 <orudge> but itw as only because of the guy in #tycoon that I noticed it 13:05:39 <FLHerne> Should provbably get back on topic though. 13:06:12 <LordAro> orudge: i saw that too :) but i guess you mesaged personally 13:07:52 <andythenorth> Alberth: the pixel generator is now in better shape....but I think it could be much cleaner 13:08:13 <andythenorth> the gestalt composes a lot of stuff which could be composed into objects provided by the pixa package 13:08:18 <Alberth> cleaning is a never-ending process :) 13:08:50 <Alberth> sounds good 13:09:11 <andythenorth> I'm not sure how to approach it yet. I'm going to work on the custom gestalt stuff a bit more 13:09:41 <andythenorth> but it looks like the following could be classes: pixel, pixelsequence, colourset 13:09:51 <andythenorth> pixel is already done in a small standalone module 13:09:57 <Alberth> yeah, that's where it is going to break so you want to make sure that one works at least 13:10:14 <Alberth> oh, that's what P means :D 13:10:22 <andythenorth> I'm trying to figure out how this could be packaged so I or others can reuse it in other sets 13:10:29 <andythenorth> I don't want to be enslaved by copy-paste :P 13:10:36 <andythenorth> I need it for FISH ;) 13:10:39 <andythenorth> and CHIPS 13:10:44 <andythenorth> and HEQS...and ... 13:11:01 <Alberth> and YAGATNNG ? 13:11:21 <andythenorth> exactly 13:11:38 <Alberth> (yet another great andythenorth newgrf) :) 13:12:00 <andythenorth> yay, I guessed correctly :) 13:12:14 <Alberth> bummer, it was too easy thus :) 13:14:57 <Alberth> In general, you only find flaws in the design by using it. Make it nice, and start deploying. When finding flaws, don't give in to hacky solutions but make a proper solution instead. 13:16:22 <andythenorth> my code is clunky right now 13:16:40 <andythenorth> but can be cleaned 13:17:12 <andythenorth> I've got a lot of function calls like foo(offset=offset, load=load) 13:17:27 <andythenorth> which could probably drop the keywords, but I like keywords :P 13:17:40 <andythenorth> otherwise it's a lot of hunting for what parameters mean 13:18:48 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 13:19:40 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-043-218.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 13:20:37 <Alberth> that's why you give variables a good name ;) 13:21:28 <Alberth> imho 'offset' and 'load' are too generic, but that's perhaps my lack of domain knowledge 13:21:44 <andythenorth> they were made up examples in this case, but close... 13:24:58 <Mazur> Are the recycling industries supposed to be functional in the current version? 13:25:21 <Mazur> Sorry. 13:26:12 <Mazur> OTTD 1.2.0-beta4 with FIRS 0.7.0M 13:26:46 <Alberth> how are they non-functional? 13:27:00 <andythenorth> Mazur: what date in game? 13:27:09 <Mazur> Someone is dropping engineering supplies in the recycling depot, and nothing happens. 13:27:28 <Mazur> Mazur: 28 Aug 2109 13:27:38 <andythenorth> Mazur: they're not supposed to accept ENSP - it's a bug ;) 13:27:42 * andythenorth checks the tickets 13:27:48 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b8a5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:28:00 <Mazur> Stable Server if you want to look. 13:28:05 <andythenorth> Mazur: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3541 13:28:14 <andythenorth> resolved, but not released (nightly build has it) 13:28:33 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3496 13:36:35 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 13:37:19 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:57:49 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 14:02:23 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:7069:fa9f:aa93:8366] has joined #openttd 14:02:26 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:08:09 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:26:46 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-155-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 14:37:37 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:45:00 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 14:47:18 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 14:48:00 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [] 14:54:27 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:26:25 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-62-145.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:26:42 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-109-88.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:32:11 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-30-60.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:32:32 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-98-237.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:33:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:34:31 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 16:16:18 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 16:25:56 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B8BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B8BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:37:41 *** cmircea_ is now known as cmircea 16:54:53 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 16:59:01 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:02:34 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-105-216.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 17:04:25 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 17:08:10 *** Stimrol_ [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 17:09:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:10:02 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:11:15 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@82.95.127.26] has joined #openttd 17:25:25 * andythenorth hmms 17:27:16 <andythenorth> industry sprites could be pre-composited 17:28:06 <andythenorth> making the tile action 2s simpler 17:28:37 <andythenorth> seems a little regressive though 17:30:46 <supermop> ?? 17:34:59 <andythenorth> currently industry tiles are composed with multiple sprites in varaction 2 (simple, extended or advanced) 17:35:27 <supermop> ok 17:35:29 <andythenorth> advanced layouts where multiple buildings, trucks etc are drawn could be simplified 17:35:40 <andythenorth> by compositing them into one png automatically 17:35:50 <andythenorth> then inserting that png as 'building' 17:36:18 <andythenorth> this possibly isn't better...or wise 17:40:04 <andythenorth> Alberth: I've never subclassed anything in python, but it seems like each gestalt might benefit from subclassing a generic gestalt class.... 17:40:12 <andythenorth> does that sound in any way wise? 17:40:40 <Alberth> yes 17:42:11 <Alberth> your timing for needing me is pretty good btw; my highlighting is not working atm if I am at another desktop, but you seem to ask me a question just before I look again :) 17:44:56 * Alberth is afk for dinner 17:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> hmz... ÃBB is lacking one or two diesel engine generations in the 1980s and 1990s... but i guess we already know that problem from DB... 18:01:55 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:06:51 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08e5c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:19:21 <andythenorth> hmm 18:20:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C4DB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:23:32 <andythenorth> what I need to do is pass pixel sequences as fully-fledged objects to the pixa renderer, instead of iterables 18:23:50 <andythenorth> then I can provide methods to handle things like randomisation 18:24:04 * andythenorth has reinvented Kai's power tools :P 18:26:23 <Pixa> This ingenious and inspired name sure is going to get annoying... 18:27:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C360.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:28:59 <andythenorth> sorry :) 18:29:03 <andythenorth> I blame Rubidium 18:29:06 <andythenorth> it's Rubidium's fault 18:29:11 <andythenorth> it was all Rubidium 18:29:32 * andythenorth will highlight Rubidium often to make up for spurious pixa highlights 18:30:13 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@154.Red-83-52-212.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 18:30:31 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-237-225.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:30:48 <Pixa> We could always just have a lengthy discussion about examples of highly reactive group 1 metals... 18:30:57 <Pixa> of which Rubidium happens to be one 18:33:12 <andythenorth> or I could rename the module to pixa renderer 18:33:14 <andythenorth> or pixar :P 18:33:19 <andythenorth> which is problematic 18:34:22 <Alberth> piksa :) 18:34:27 <andythenorth> pikka 18:34:30 <Pixa> I don't mind 18:34:50 <Pixa> I'm honoured that a package in OTTD was named after a lurker on the IRC channel with a particularly unreliable internet connection 18:34:53 * andythenorth will try another gestalt 18:34:58 <andythenorth> box trailer is...too easy :P 18:35:09 <andythenorth> maybe a flat trailer with load sprites 18:35:10 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:35:16 <andythenorth> that will demand compositing 18:37:59 <andythenorth> hmm 18:38:11 * andythenorth thinks generating lots of spritesheets might be slow 18:38:22 <andythenorth> >2s to do 16 18:40:49 <Alberth> you cannot draw that fast :) 18:41:06 <andythenorth> indeed 18:42:07 <andythenorth> ~30 cargos, 6 body styles, 2 trailer types, 4 lengths 18:42:16 <andythenorth> @calc 30 * 6 * 2 * 4 18:42:16 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 1440 18:42:24 <andythenorth> 1440/16 18:42:29 <andythenorth> @calc 1440/16 18:42:29 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 90 18:42:42 <andythenorth> 3 mins 18:42:50 <andythenorth> c'est la vie 18:42:56 * andythenorth wonders about a dep check 18:45:06 <andythenorth> ho 18:45:16 <andythenorth> some interesting effects could be achieved by accident 18:45:21 <andythenorth> 'cut away' anyone? :P 18:45:21 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2484/interesting.png 18:45:54 <andythenorth> ^ reveals how I'm cheating with the loads :) 18:49:05 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-237-225.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:50:40 <Alberth> :) 19:10:29 <LordAro> TrueBrain: sortable wikitables seem to be broken (wiki.openttd.org) 19:22:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r23965 /trunk/src/ (3 files): -Fix [FS#5070]: Refittability should never depend on the current capacity of a vehicle. 19:26:45 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: they can look better if they're bulging out the top slightly 19:26:56 <Rhamphoryncus> and do you have wood yet? 19:27:20 <Alberth> and steel and batteries :p 19:29:44 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:30:40 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@154.Red-83-52-212.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:36:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23966 /trunk/src/lang/ (43 files in 2 dirs): 19:36:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 19:36:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 47 changes by Parastais 19:36:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 56 changes by Stabilitronas 19:36:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: spanish - 9 changes by Terkhen 19:36:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: swedish - 6 changes by Zuu 19:36:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: urdu - 95 changes by haider 19:53:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23967 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Fix-ish: don't fix road ownership of standard road stops each time you load a savegame, only when loading an old one 19:54:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23968 /branches/1.2/: [1.2] -Branch: there we go... 19:54:45 <LordAro> :O 19:56:06 <Alberth> 2 of your patches rolling into the real world :) 19:56:15 <LordAro> Rubidium: is r23967 correct? 19:56:45 <frosch123> LordAro: oh, btw. basesets should also be able to show readme and licence and stuff ^^ 19:57:32 <LordAro> bit late now :L 19:59:21 <frosch123> you mean if the world ends in 2012, it would never make it into a stable? :p 20:00:13 <frosch123> maybe you should ask a priest of you religion, whether they play trunk in heaven :p 20:00:45 <LordAro> i'll just go and do that :) 20:01:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23969 /trunk/ (10 files in 8 dirs): -Codechange: trunk heads to 1.3 now 20:05:38 <LordAro> ha, i just loaded that webpage of the branch diff :) 20:05:44 <LordAro> slooooww loading :) 20:06:12 <frosch123> yeah, rb always does those big commits without splitting 20:07:25 <LordAro> :) 20:07:57 <Rubidium> what splitting? Nothing got changed. The diff is just empty 20:09:49 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:13:33 <frosch123> i could now make a comparison to a certain german nobleman, but most here would probably not get it 20:13:42 <Zuu> frosch123: yea readmes for basesets and libraries :-) 20:14:01 <Zuu> More readmes to the people :-) 20:14:28 <frosch123> readmes are not exactly visible in any gui but the content download 20:14:52 <frosch123> but yes, maybe the content gui should also get those buttons 20:16:24 <Zuu> viewing offline readmes in the online content download gui? 20:16:37 <frosch123> yeah, only from downloaded stuff 20:16:55 <frosch123> [20:26] <frosch123> readmes are not exactly visible in any gui but the content download <- s/readmes/libraries/ 20:17:03 *** Firartix [~artixds@38.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:18:15 <Zuu> That said, if you are going to use a library you will probably still have to untar it and look at the public functions unless you doument the entire library API in the readme. 20:18:40 <Zuu> A readme would instead be a way to describe the library in more than 500 characters. 20:18:51 <LordAro> imo, libraries are for developers only, therefore are not needed for the 'end-user' 20:19:29 <Alberth> Zuu: doesn't squirrel have some standard documentation system, like eg doxygen ? 20:19:58 <Zuu> Alberth: Not that I'm aware of. At least I don't use any standard documentation system in my code. 20:20:24 <Zuu> Other than some occianaly ideas to follow some standard :-) 20:20:36 *** Firartix [~artixds@38.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 20:21:34 <Alberth> in my view, that would give you much more room to document things 20:23:01 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:24:12 <Rubidium> use something doxygeny and make a nice API website for each of the libraries 20:24:22 <Rubidium> preferably keeping api versions of the different releases 20:27:38 <Zuu> that would be nice. Though I don't think I will spend my time on doing that for eg. SuperLib. The current situation is not that bad. And I agree with LordAro that libraries doesn't need to have readmes visible in the game. Developers should know how to open a tar file. :-) 20:28:16 <Rubidium> any decent OS does that transparantly ;) 20:28:22 <LordAro> yay! agreement! :) 20:28:37 <Rubidium> reminds me of something 20:28:46 <Zuu> SuperLib have some sort of documentation of each class at the top of each file. 20:40:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23970 /branches/1.2/ (6 files in 4 dirs): [1.2] -Prepare: 1.2.0-RC1 20:45:55 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.252.118] has joined #openttd 20:48:02 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.252.118] has quit [] 20:55:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23971 /tags/1.2.0-RC1/: -Release: 1.2.0-RC1; tag you're it! 20:56:13 <Rubidium> there LordAro... another massive unsplit diff ;) 21:04:11 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... looks like it's going to be Gauck then... 21:05:25 <Rubidium> the new Wulff? 21:05:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah 21:06:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Gauck was already the opposition candidate in the last election 21:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause> which also got quite some votes from the government fractions 21:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and had the backing of the majority of the population 21:07:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but the president is not elected directly, so that doesn't mean much 21:09:19 *** SpComb^_ is now known as SpComb^ 21:10:43 <planetmaker> his biggest "credit" is that he lead the "Stasi"-administration which deals with the investigation of the secret internal police of the GDR 21:10:43 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:11:01 <planetmaker> and that he was a civil rights advocate in the GDR afair 21:11:29 <Rubidium> but he'd be basically only cutting ribbons, wouldn't he? 21:12:00 <Eddi|zuHause> he'd be "representing" and "being a role model" 21:12:07 <frosch123> yes, but he should not steal the golden scissor while doing so :p 21:13:38 <Eddi|zuHause> he's made some controversial comments in the past two years, and he's rather old. that's basically the criticism i heard so far 21:14:11 <Rubidium> isn't that called "experience"? 21:15:53 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the Dutch and English equivalent-ish of your president are older, so he's not that old ;) 21:15:59 <supermop> oh yeah, your president resigned, right? 21:16:18 <frosch123> "resigned" 21:16:42 <Rubidium> and the one of Belgium's older as well 21:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause> he already "got resigned" two months ago, he just took quite long to realize it :p 21:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but those are not elected people 21:17:40 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: as if your one is elected... it's rather "lobbied" I'd say 21:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause> however undemocratic the election is... 21:17:59 <frosch123> supermop: he resigned just before the parliament had to decide about nullify his immunity 21:18:34 <supermop> ah yeah 21:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause> we should have done something like with the mayor of duisburg 21:18:54 <supermop> only loosely been following it - i am way behind on my news 21:19:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the first mayor to be evicted from office through an out-of-schedule election 21:20:02 <supermop> we call those recall elections here 21:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause> it took them like two years to pull that off 21:22:41 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-105-216.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 21:22:55 <appe> http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/2748560_460s.jpg 21:23:03 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-105-216.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 21:23:17 *** You're now known as SpBot 21:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> the next open discussion is whether the not-anymore-president should get the 200.000⬠per year "pension" for being just 1.5 years in office 21:25:46 <SpComb> no 21:26:20 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: well, it is unlikely that he ends up in jail for more than 1 year; so that discussion is needed :p 21:26:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the law says he should get it for finishing a full (5 year) term, or for resigning out of political or health reasons before that 21:27:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the argument is that he resigned for personal reasons 21:28:32 <SpComb> what's resigning for a political reason? 21:28:32 <Eddi|zuHause> all previous presidents finished at least one full term, so the discussion never came up before 21:29:26 <Rubidium> just find a nutjob and you don't need to do the whole discussion 21:29:34 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: did köhler finish a term? 21:29:38 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 21:30:13 <Eddi|zuHause> he was like a year into his second term when he resigned 21:30:55 <frosch123> hmm, then i somehow did not notice his reellection 21:31:10 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i guess when he resigns because veto-ing a law doesn't make enough of an impact, or something like that 21:31:55 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-110-125.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 21:32:03 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it was one of those "nobody really cares" things 21:32:11 <SpComb> right, so he should have raised some arbitrary political issue, and then resigned :) 21:32:38 <Rubidium> did Wulff maybe screw you by signing acta before resigning? 21:32:56 <Rubidium> or can't he do that? 21:33:02 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p 21:33:19 <Rubidium> it'd be a big "fuck you" statement to everyone trying to get rid of him 21:34:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the president can't really do anything if the government doesn't tell him to 21:34:23 <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm not an expert 21:36:34 <SpComb> rouge president 21:36:53 <SpComb> Finland used to have a President that ran the government 21:37:04 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-105-216.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:37:06 <SpComb> it was scary times when we had the Soviet Union as a neighbour 21:44:09 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: a law won't become effective if not signed by the president. And he's got the right to check the laws for conformity with the constitution 21:45:09 <planetmaker> iirc Köhler kinda at least delayed some laws quite a lot by that. Or even kinda stopped it, like the insane anti-terrorist law SchÀuble devised which would have allowed to shoot down passenger planes just because there's a terrorist in it who hijacked it successfully 21:45:42 <frosch123> planetmaker: he can forward laws to the consitutional court before signing them 21:46:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the plane-hijacking law is the only law that got vetoed in the last 20-ish years 21:46:56 <Eddi|zuHause> another one was pushed back: the internet-censorship law, but it was eventually signed (even though it was already clear that it was not to be enforced) 21:52:05 <LordAro> can i just confirm: the old way of loading 32bpp sprites has been removed entirely, yes? 21:53:17 <michi_cc> @openttd commit 23898 21:53:18 <DorpsGek> michi_cc: Commit by michi_cc :: r23898 /trunk (8 files in 4 dirs) (2012-02-04 22:19:02 UTC) 21:53:19 <DorpsGek> michi_cc: -Remove: PNG sprite loader. 21:53:23 <planetmaker> LordAro: yes 21:53:38 <LordAro> just checking 21:53:46 <LordAro> Jupix was a little put out about it 21:53:52 <LordAro> understandable really 21:54:19 <Rubidium> why? 21:54:30 <Rubidium> he had to redo everything anyhow 21:55:35 <LordAro> i guess, but until that is done, there is no way of loading 32bpp sprites at all 21:56:45 <michi_cc> Consider it an incentive *evil grin* 21:58:41 <Rubidium> LordAro: you have to use the ancient patched version anyhow for his sprites 21:58:45 <Rubidium> right? 21:59:19 <LordAro> michi_cc: :) 21:59:29 <michi_cc> I guess they'd at least need some retouch for the recolouring. 21:59:30 <LordAro> Rubidium: not for normal zoom 22:05:45 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-109-88.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:06:19 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-109-88.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 22:07:43 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:10:20 <LordAro> also, there is no news/forum post about the RC1 22:11:51 * Rubidium blames someone 22:12:40 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: You can blame me if you'll review my patch ;) (which I haven't posted yet.) 22:12:44 <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.1.5, 1.2.0-RC1 22:12:44 *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.5, 1.2.0-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever | English only 22:13:10 <Rubidium> though one part is one of the mirrors being horrendously slow 22:13:19 <Rubidium> almost took longer to push the binaries than to build them 22:13:30 <Rubidium> so it actually just finished building 22:13:50 <Rubidium> besides that there are some other dependencies not quite reading for the news messages 22:14:21 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:51 <appe> http://monkeypantz.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/george-takei-set-phaser-to-fabuous.jpg 22:15:38 <Rhamphoryncus> appe: never gets old 22:15:54 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:16:00 <appe> fun thing with george is that he is personally very active on the intarwebz 22:16:11 <appe> that is, no agents or shit in between, but george and his opinions 22:16:14 <appe> i like t 22:16:17 <appe> +i 22:18:36 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:22:26 * LordAro dutifully adds RC1 to the wiki page 22:25:42 <Rhamphoryncus> How long is the release cycle usually? 22:26:48 <Terkhen> http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD_Release_History 22:27:07 <Rhamphoryncus> thanks 22:27:09 <LordAro> (in other words, expect a stable release on 1 April) 22:27:20 <Terkhen> I did not say that :) 22:27:32 <Rhamphoryncus> Well gee, that's predictable ;) 22:28:42 <Rubidium> until we screw you over and really make a special April fools release ;) 22:28:50 <Rubidium> *hint* 22:29:43 <Rhamphoryncus> heh 22:36:57 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B8BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:44 <LordAro> still should've done that for 1.0 22:37:55 <LordAro> then just released it proper a couple months later :) 22:38:56 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:40:08 * andythenorth votes for bed 22:40:17 <andythenorth> compositing load sprites can wait until tomorrow 22:40:24 <andythenorth> I need to learn how PIL uses masks / alpha 22:40:25 <andythenorth> :P 22:40:34 * Rhamphoryncus votes against bed, just to be difficult 22:40:45 * andythenorth shrugs 22:41:07 <Rhamphoryncus> You're not anti-democratic, are you? 22:41:13 <Rhamphoryncus> Communist! 22:41:28 <Rhamphoryncus> Republican and/or Democrat! 22:42:18 * andythenorth favours 'one man, one vote' 22:42:36 * Rhamphoryncus incites the senate against you 22:43:10 <frosch123> andythenorth: sounds ancient greekish 22:43:40 <andythenorth> frosch123: I am the one man, I have the one vote :) 22:44:21 * Rubidium waves to neo 22:45:06 * Rhamphoryncus disconnects neo's virtual boy so he can't pretend to fly anymore. 22:46:57 * andythenorth wonders if androids dream of electric pixel generators 22:48:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the spartans actually had two kings 22:49:27 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: would that make you an android? 22:49:53 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:49:55 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: would I know if I was? 22:51:20 * andythenorth -> bed. good night 22:51:20 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm too lazy to put together a clever reply 22:51:22 <Rhamphoryncus> g'night 22:51:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:51:58 <frosch123> night 22:52:02 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b8a5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:07 *** Nat_as [83bf2240@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:58:31 <Nat_as> what resolution are TTD sprites? 22:58:46 <planetmaker> 250401 dpi 22:58:55 <Nat_as> i mean per tile 22:59:01 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:59:04 <Nat_as> 64x64? 22:59:05 <planetmaker> depends on the zoom level then 22:59:07 <__ln__> one house per tile 22:59:11 <Nat_as> default 22:59:13 <planetmaker> 63 x 31 22:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause> 64px from left corner to right corner 22:59:21 <Eddi|zuHause> 32px from top corner to bottom corner 22:59:23 <planetmaker> *64 22:59:31 <Nat_as> ahh that's what I thought 23:00:04 <Nat_as> yeah 32 from top to bottom because isometric 23:00:31 <planetmaker> it's actually dimetric. not isometric 23:00:32 <Nat_as> but things will probably be taller than that because most objects extend up out of there grid square. 23:00:36 <Nat_as> oh it is? 23:00:39 <Nat_as> what's the diffrence? 23:00:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not 30° 23:00:57 <Nat_as> I do remember there being some diffrence between OTTD and Simutrans sprites 23:01:03 <Eddi|zuHause> but more like 26.5° 23:01:13 <Nat_as> so how does that effect the whole vanishing point thing? 23:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause> = #arctan(1/2) 23:01:31 <Nat_as> I thought Isometric just meant that parallel lines never meet? 23:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> there's no vanishing point, it's a parallel projection 23:02:15 <Nat_as> when looking at the sprites, it seems straight lines have the same 1 up to across pixel angle. 23:02:23 <Nat_as> 1 up 2 across 23:02:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, hence arctan(1/2) 23:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but isometry defines the angle as arcsin(1/2) 23:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> which this is not 23:04:19 <Nat_as> hmm? 23:04:23 <Nat_as> I don't understand? 23:04:36 <Nat_as> grid squares are twice as wide as they are tall right? 23:04:57 <Eddi|zuHause> "parallel projection" means parallel lines in the original are also parallel in the projection 23:05:11 <Nat_as> yes 23:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> "isometry" is a special parallel projection, with a defined angle 23:05:34 <Eddi|zuHause> our angle differs from the one defined for "isometry", so ours is not "isometry" 23:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the difficulty? 23:06:04 <Nat_as> which is simutrans? 23:06:08 <Nat_as> and sim city 2000? 23:06:16 <Nat_as> because I've always called thoes isometric 23:06:22 <Nat_as> am I using the wrong word? 23:06:27 <Nat_as> or is OTTD somehow diffrent? 23:06:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 23:07:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it's very common to use "isometry" loosely for all those games, but technically it's not correct 23:07:21 <Nat_as> okay 23:07:23 <Nat_as> I thought I was triping 23:08:11 <Nat_as> it's probably my favorite format 23:08:29 <Nat_as> I love building and Turn based strategy games that use it. 23:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause> also technically, "dimetric" isn't correct either 23:09:22 <Nat_as> what should it be called then? 23:09:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the right generalisation is "axonometric" 23:10:39 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:11:41 <Rhamphoryncus> I wonder where in history that confusion was made 23:11:48 <Nat_as> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graphical_projection_comparison.png 23:12:17 <Nat_as> wikipedia seems to say Axomomentic is a general term for 3d to 2d, and that isometric refers to this specific angle 23:12:57 <Rhamphoryncus> that's exactly what this says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axonometric_projection 23:14:06 <Nat_as> yeah 23:14:10 <Rhamphoryncus> isometric = all dimensions the same, dimetric = two dimensions the same, trimetric = none of the dimensions the same 23:14:23 <Nat_as> so is OTTD 120 or 105 deg? 23:14:53 <Eddi|zuHause> no 23:15:30 <Nat_as> what is it then 23:15:41 <michi_cc> 116.6° 23:16:15 <Nat_as> how does that add up? 23:16:27 <michi_cc> OpenTTD is dimetric, but there's more than one possible dimetric projection. 23:16:58 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 180/pi*atan(1/2)+90 23:16:58 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 116.565051177 23:17:01 <michi_cc> Dimetric only means that two of the three angles are identical, not that they are exactly 105°. 23:17:48 <michi_cc> SimCity 4 for example is trimetric, but doesn't use the angles from the wikipedia image either. 23:17:51 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: at least the german wikipedia uses the term very different 23:18:08 <Rhamphoryncus> so 116.6°, 116.6°, 126.9° 23:18:25 <Nat_as> so will making all lines use 1 pixel up 2 pixels across look strange? 23:18:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: well, it does have to add up to 360° :p 23:19:07 <Nat_as> for lines parallel to the ground and aligned with the grid that is. 23:19:19 <Nat_as> the grid squares are twice as high as they are wide? 23:19:31 <Rhamphoryncus> pbbbt: 180 â (360 â atan(0.5)) â Ï 23:19:45 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: I'm sure you can find other dimensions for dimetric, but the one according to DIN 5 was probably the only not deleted for "no verifiable source". 23:19:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_as: that's the beauty of the arctan(1/2) angle, it fits exactly in the pixel raster 23:19:57 <Nat_as> yeah 23:20:07 <Nat_as> I thought that was isometric. 23:20:19 <peter1138> it's not 23:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause> isometry is older than humans thinking in pixels :p 23:20:28 <Nat_as> it's the most convenient for pixel artists though. 23:20:34 <Nat_as> lol I guess so 23:20:48 <Rhamphoryncus> Nat_as: Until this conversation I thought it was isometric too. I've even used it in my own stuff 23:20:52 <michi_cc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric_graphics_in_video_games_and_pixel_art 23:21:17 <michi_cc> "commonly, the form of dimetric projection mistakenly referred to as 'isometric'"' 23:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: "it's on wikipedia, it must be right" :p 23:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: who says that this phrase isn't actually the "common mistake"? 23:22:08 <Nat_as> lol 23:22:11 <Nat_as> I believe you guys now. 23:22:25 <Rhamphoryncus> Basically, if you have a cube/box and you use isometric then the forward and backward corners will line up *perfectly* 23:22:36 <Rhamphoryncus> Which they almost never do in games 23:22:56 <michi_cc> Thankfully, mathematics are around longer then wikipedia :p 23:24:21 <__ln__> *than 23:24:24 <Nat_as> so in other words don't fret over the actual degrees and just use the 1:2 pixels as your ruler. 23:24:34 <Nat_as> because otherwise you will be caught up in decimels. 23:25:32 <Nat_as> Decimated 23:25:43 <Nat_as> (which means reduced by a factor of 10) 23:25:46 <Rhamphoryncus> The pixels are likely the original source anyway 23:26:06 <Nat_as> (if there is any more or less left over then they have not been decimated) 23:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they were heximated? 23:27:46 * Rhamphoryncus decimates 89.9% of Nat_as 23:27:47 <Nat_as> lol 23:27:51 <Nat_as> possibly. 23:29:24 * Nat_as prefers to centimate his enemies. 23:30:31 <Nat_as> Why aren't decimetres a thing? 23:30:37 <Terkhen> good night 23:30:39 <Nat_as> it just skips to centi. 23:30:55 <Rhamphoryncus> umm, decimeters ARE a thing 23:31:03 <FLHerne> Chemistry seems to use dm^3 quite a lot 23:31:26 <Nat_as> they aren't as popular as there imperial analogue though. 23:31:32 <Nat_as> Imperial has inches feet and yards. 23:31:41 <Nat_as> but Metric most of the time jumps from M to CM 23:32:01 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:32:37 <Rhamphoryncus> dm³ = litre 23:32:48 <FLHerne> I know 23:33:06 <FLHerne> It's a bit pointless, litres are easier to pronounce :D 23:33:12 <Eddi|zuHause> my physics teacher once scolded me for using dN 23:33:15 <Rhamphoryncus> Nat_as: I was taught dm is school but it's NEVER used 23:33:21 <Rhamphoryncus> cm is more practical 23:33:21 *** kkb110__ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:29 <Nat_as> I'm not saying they DON'T exist, that's one of the benefits of metric is the orders of magnitude are implied rather than arbitrarily decided, but why leave out a useful increment? 23:33:43 <Rhamphoryncus> Nat_as: it's not useful 23:33:54 <FLHerne> dm would be useful for a lot of things actually 23:33:59 <Nat_as> that seems like saying feet aren't usefull because inches and yards exist 23:34:11 <valhallasw> FLHerne: the reason is because you can easily use fractions in the metric system 23:34:16 <Rhamphoryncus> In fact cm is only borderline. Using only m and mm reduces the number of conversions you need 23:34:17 <valhallasw> i.e. 1.2m makes sense 23:34:33 <Nat_as> true I guess 23:34:36 <Rhamphoryncus> exactly 23:34:41 <valhallasw> the only reason feet are used is as N yards M feet X inches 23:34:57 <Rhamphoryncus> 1.2m = 12 dm = 120 cm = 1200 mm. It's pointless. 23:35:05 <FLHerne> True, but a mm is only 0.1 cm 23:35:11 <Nat_as> the only advantage of Imperial is that it's measurements are at scales useful to most human activities as opposed to mathematically defined. 23:35:55 <Rhamphoryncus> Eventually you do gain by having different units, but the strong trend there is multiples of 3 23:36:04 <FLHerne> So why bother with cm, we could stick to multiples of 3... 23:36:05 <planetmaker> how's a yard more usefule than a metre, an inch better than a cm? 23:36:18 <Nat_as> they aren't 23:36:24 <Rhamphoryncus> FLHerne: exactly 23:36:35 <FLHerne> Inches are a good size to measure common objects actually 23:36:38 <Nat_as> but MM are useless to most people 23:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: your argument is very weak 23:36:41 <FLHerne> As are feet 23:36:55 <Nat_as> and miles are 'bigger' than Kilometres. 23:37:07 <Rhamphoryncus> of hecto/deca/deci/centi, the only one that gets any use is centimetre. 23:37:10 <Nat_as> bigger is better. 23:37:12 <Eddi|zuHause> our miles are way bigger than yours 23:37:19 <FLHerne> 5.5 feet is easier than 165cm 23:37:26 <Rubidium> Nat_as: so are thous 23:37:30 <FLHerne> That's why dm would be good 23:37:31 <Rhamphoryncus> FLHerne: 1.65 m 23:37:39 <valhallasw> FLHerne: no. that's just your upbringing. 23:37:48 <Nat_as> I always thought measuring height in CM was strange 23:38:02 <Nat_as> I'd rather get height in feet or meters than inches or CM 23:38:07 <FLHerne> Not so sure, I was brought up using mainly metric 23:38:12 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus: that's quite a bold and imho quite wrong statement wrt unit-prefixes 23:38:34 <Rhamphoryncus> planetmaker: *shrug* It's my experience 23:38:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: the use of prefixes heavily depends on context 23:38:54 <Eddi|zuHause> hecto is quite oftenly used with areas 23:38:54 <FLHerne> I just find km and cm a bit too small for some purposes, because you need larger numbers 23:38:55 <TWerkhoven[l]> hecta gets a lot of use in land-area for instance 23:39:00 <TWerkhoven[l]> hectare 23:39:03 <Rubidium> FLHerne: but now you're tring to determine the height difference between 5.5 feet and 4.9 feet ;) 23:39:11 <planetmaker> especially when 1 Giga-Angstrom equals exactly 1dm ;-) 23:39:33 * appe distrupts the magical spells of downs syndrome induced railway code discussions with recommending the film 50/50. 23:39:34 <Nat_as> if you need more than two digets to measure something with minimal variation, you are using the wrong measuring stick. 23:39:57 <Nat_as> Feet and meters are better than inches and cm for measuring height. 23:40:08 <FLHerne> It's about half a foot 23:40:20 <FLHerne> Which is accurate enough for most things 23:40:39 <Rhamphoryncus> appe: downs syndrome? I thought we all had aspergers? 23:40:51 <FLHerne> Thinking of units, why are model railway scales in mm/foot? 23:40:53 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:40:59 <Nat_as> 5 ft 6 inches or 1.6 metres instead of 66 inches or 167 cm 23:41:10 <appe> Rhamphoryncus: this is irc. sickness is always downs or cholera. 23:41:20 <Nat_as> Really? they mix systems like that? 23:41:26 <Nat_as> Probably because MM are really tiny 23:41:34 <Nat_as> one thing imperial does badly is minitures. 23:41:42 <Nat_as> anything smaller than an inch it breaks down. 23:41:50 <Rubidium> Nat_as: there are thous 23:42:01 <Rubidium> and 1000 thous are an inch 23:42:22 <Nat_as> never heard of thoes ever. 23:42:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_as: but 167cm avoids the use of fractions 23:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause> with an accuracy that is "good enough" for the average human (without a ruler) 23:43:24 <Nat_as> well 1 meter 67 cm looks more elegant than 167 cm, even though it's more words. 23:43:39 <valhallasw> 1.67m looks even better 23:43:55 <Nat_as> google tells me that Thous are a real thing and you did not make that up 23:44:00 <Nat_as> not sure why they aren't used. 23:44:10 <Nat_as> i guess if people want accuracy they switch to metric 23:44:32 <Nat_as> even in America which supposedly hates metric, uses it all the time for professional things. 23:44:41 <Nat_as> we just reserve imperial for casual use. 23:44:43 <valhallasw> yeah, except the rocket propulsion guys 23:44:47 <Nat_as> also measuring land. 23:44:49 <Nat_as> lol 23:44:49 <planetmaker> Nat_as: and what pressure do you have if you put one stone on a square foot? 23:44:58 <planetmaker> given that pressure usually is in pounds per square inch? 23:45:28 <Nat_as> yeah PSI is another scientific measure that uses imperial. 23:45:30 <Eddi|zuHause> every time i read "square foot" i must immediately think "Quadratlatschen" :p 23:45:31 <Nat_as> which is strange 23:45:38 <Rubidium> planetmaker: don't use square foot or square inch, but the proper units for areas: perches, roods and acres 23:45:39 <planetmaker> it's not "scientific" :-P 23:46:03 <appe> speaking of scientific 23:46:07 <planetmaker> at best it's an engineering unit. 23:46:14 <appe> what do you guys think of the latest CERN results? 23:46:16 <LordAro> night all 23:46:18 <valhallasw> planetmaker: then again, how many Oersted in one Tesla? 23:46:22 <Nat_as> yeah but engineers use metric often. 23:46:36 <Eddi|zuHause> http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Quadratlatschen <-- why does that exist in a chinese translation only? :p 23:46:37 <valhallasw> sorry, Oersted per A/m 23:46:37 <Nat_as> i guess it depends on the job 23:46:41 <planetmaker> valhallasw: I can tell you that there are 10**4 Gauss in a Tesla :-P 23:46:45 <FLHerne> For some reason, my normal unit scale seems to be mm, cm, feet, metres, miles...quite mixed really. I just use units which I think are a good size 23:47:05 <Nat_as> I like how a meter and a yard are almost equivlent 23:47:10 <Nat_as> as is a tone and a tonne 23:47:14 <planetmaker> lol 23:47:18 <FLHerne> ton? 23:47:27 <planetmaker> by the same means a Euro is a USD 23:47:30 <Nat_as> imperial ton vs metric tonne 23:47:30 <appe> bah 23:47:32 <Nat_as> yeah 23:47:35 <appe> i was born in the eighties. 23:47:40 <Nat_as> sure I'd kill somebody as an engineer like that. 23:47:41 <appe> for me, gauss was never a unit 23:47:42 <planetmaker> same accuracy. But I'd not trade 1:1 with you, I'm afraid 23:47:47 <valhallasw> planetmaker: as you probably know, cgs electromagnetism doesn't fiddle around with epsilon-0 and mu-0 but rather with a bunch of pi's and c's 23:47:54 <Nat_as> but it's nice to play with. 23:47:58 <appe> for me, gauss was the beginning of a word, turning into the greatest weapon in history. 23:48:00 <valhallasw> planetmaker: so 1 Oe = 1000/(4 pi) A/m ;-) 23:48:15 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:48:19 <planetmaker> valhallasw: sure. But... I don't like cgs. I tend to avoid that by nearly all means 23:48:30 <planetmaker> though I see where it comes from and where it has uses 23:48:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the only times i use "non-metric" units is when i order "ein Pfund Hackepeter"... and even then it's a metrified pound 23:48:44 <Rubidium> luckily they redefined the length of a yard to be 0.9144 cm, instead of one with a gazilion decimals for accuracy 23:49:01 <Eddi|zuHause> (i don't commonly talk about horsepowers...) 23:49:13 <Nat_as> is a horsepower really one horse? 23:49:20 <__ln__> oh, the temperature outside is almost 493.5 degrees Rankine now. 23:49:22 <Nat_as> I mean even a shitty car has almost 100 of them 23:49:23 <planetmaker> no. It's a power unit :-P 23:49:26 <Rubidium> s/cm/m/ 23:49:30 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-237-225.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."] 23:49:32 <Rubidium> guess I ought to go to bed 23:49:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_as: a modern day racing horse typically has less than 1hp 23:49:47 <Nat_as> and I'm sure a hundred horses would be stronger than a civic. 23:49:50 <Nat_as> really? 23:50:14 <valhallasw> the hp was used to compare steam engines to horse-operated winches for mines, iirc 23:50:15 <planetmaker> Nat_as: there's a (big) difference in the continued power and the momentary power output of any living being 23:50:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_as: 1 hp was measured by taking an average 19th century working horse and have it go in circles for one hour 23:50:30 <Nat_as> oh 23:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_as: modern day racing horses are bread to have very short endurance 23:50:44 <Nat_as> so 50 horses could outpull a motorcycle with 100 hp 23:51:00 <planetmaker> they'd have more friction ;-) 23:51:10 <Nat_as> lol yes traction is the big thing 23:51:16 <Rubidium> but in the end the motorcycle will win as the horses get exhausted ;) 23:51:24 <Nat_as> Hmm, how are the horsedrawn carrages in the Heavy equipment set statted? 23:51:39 <Nat_as> do they have single diget HP values? 23:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause> they were implemented before realistic acceleration 23:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and are buggy 23:51:55 <Nat_as> actually cars don't HAVE hp values displayed 23:51:59 <Nat_as> just max speed and cargo. 23:52:15 <Nat_as> even though some of them are animated like trains, they are a single unit. 23:52:28 <Nat_as> it would be nice if you could buy trailers like trains though. 23:52:29 <planetmaker> Nat_as: then you don't play with realistic accel 23:54:27 <Nat_as> there needs to be a 1800s newgrif 23:54:56 <Nat_as> heck I'd just like to be able to start in 1900 23:55:03 <Nat_as> before 1930 23:55:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_as: anyway, the point is, you can't measure "horsepower" by having a rope pulling contest 23:55:34 <Eddi|zuHause> because that doesn't measure the continuous power over an hour or more 23:55:49 <appe> horses are for eating. 23:55:56 <Nat_as> and glue 23:56:24 <Rhamphoryncus> Nat_as: I keep starting games in 1925 or 1930 and it's painful 23:56:25 <Nat_as> imagine a wild west newgrif with stagecoaches and steam trains 23:56:34 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:56:39 <Nat_as> can you newgrif disasters? 23:56:47 <Rhamphoryncus> The game speed needs to be scaled to make it playable 23:56:51 <Nat_as> like indians and bandits? 23:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe the earliest "sane" rail newgrfs around are starting 1870-ish 23:57:26 <Nat_as> but we had trains before that right? 23:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that doesn't mean it creates sane gameplay 23:58:36 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. cargo and passenger production must be downscaled 23:59:24 <Nat_as> 1830 is when the first steam train happened.