Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:32 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.209.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:04:18 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:06:17 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:13:22 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:35:49 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 00:40:29 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@659AAAYJF.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:44:39 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-104-25.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:06:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19359.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:47 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083f21.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 01:24:16 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:28 *** pugi_ [~pugi@host-091-097-009-204.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 01:40:23 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-075-090.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:40:25 *** pugi_ is now known as pugi 01:53:52 *** cl8` [~cccc@host-92-3-249-239.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 01:53:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6ACF8.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 02:00:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A6AB.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:01:21 *** cl8 [~cccc@host-92-3-249-239.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:36:12 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-009-204.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 02:36:46 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:37:13 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 03:06:11 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:11:57 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:5462:1d2f:c303:3b90] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:53:00 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:54:30 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 03:56:49 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 03:58:25 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:09 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 04:17:26 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.87] has joined #openttd 04:21:04 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-103-91.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:25:55 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.77.20] has joined #openttd 04:26:59 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:38:46 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 05:15:27 *** hbccbh [~hbc@113.93.71.43] has joined #openttd 05:30:57 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:53:25 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B736ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:54:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7472F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:18:17 *** kaenkky [~kaenkky_@GYCDIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 07:16:20 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 07:29:56 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:42:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-149-108-14.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 07:46:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-149-108-14.as13285.net] has quit [] 07:57:05 <Terkhen> good morning 08:00:23 <Rubidium> good aftermidmorning ;) 08:01:59 *** hbccbh [~hbc@113.93.71.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:06:53 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 08:07:31 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.187] has joined #openttd 08:08:49 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-96-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:26:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A9C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:37:17 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 08:37:46 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:51:47 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:51:50 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:52:06 <Alberth> moin 08:54:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-149-108-14.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 08:56:08 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:56:43 <andythenorth> bonjour 08:57:28 *** cl8 [~cccc@host-92-3-243-197.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 08:57:30 <Zuu> morning 09:01:18 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 09:03:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-149-108-14.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:03:55 *** cl8` [~cccc@host-92-3-249-239.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:06:34 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-009-204.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:16:24 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:22:28 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-58-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:23:10 <Wolf01> 'morning 09:23:28 <Alberth> moin 09:23:39 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:26:21 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:32:03 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:39:59 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 09:45:16 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 09:52:28 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:53:06 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.jkit.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:15 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:58:41 *** kaenkky [~kaenkky_@GYCDIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:06:07 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:11:26 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-85-61.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:11:29 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 10:15:05 *** TGYoshi_ [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 10:16:09 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-51-191.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:16:12 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 10:16:41 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-255-81.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:19:23 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:20:10 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-85-61.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:23:49 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:42:46 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 10:43:35 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff14d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:47:37 *** TGYoshi_ [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:16:20 *** Firartix [~artixds@147.215.81.100] has joined #openttd 11:22:45 <frosch123> haha, i don't know what distinguishes dbset 0.4 from later releases. but that someone prefers a ancient newgrf over less ancient grfs is interesting :) 11:22:57 <frosch123> ( http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1003258#p1003258 ) 11:24:28 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:25:58 <Rubidium> frosch123: I know someone who'd prefer anything Russian over anything "western" hardware wise 11:31:00 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:31:16 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:38:44 *** Firartix [~artixds@147.215.81.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:02:27 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d110-32-48-235.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:04:06 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 12:07:59 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-76-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:13:14 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-51-191.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:20:32 *** morph` [~morph`@78.84.121.50] has joined #openttd 12:21:14 *** morph` [~morph`@78.84.121.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:26:19 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:32:27 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:49:42 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:52:43 <Pikka> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5124/getfile/8244/av8rangebug.png 12:52:45 <Pikka> oh dear 12:54:09 <frosch123> pretty cheap 12:54:19 <Pikka> pretty high capacity 12:55:02 <Pikka> about 200 billion times the population of the earth... 12:55:21 <Pikka> don't set it to full load, you'll be waiting a while :) 12:55:36 <Terkhen> we should ditch earth and get us one of those 12:55:44 <Hirundo> Noah's Ark 2.0 ? 12:57:27 <telanus> :-D, that's mighty huge 12:58:15 <frosch123> Pikka: is there already a aircraft grf downloadable, which uses range? 12:58:35 <Pikka> not as far as I know, frosch, except the test grf attached 12:58:46 <frosch123> oh, silly me :p 13:04:28 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:29ae:b53d:3b67:9417] has joined #openttd 13:04:31 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:21:32 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 13:28:34 <Zuu> Great to see that you are working on including max ranges in av8. 13:30:05 <Pikka> and found two bugs so far, Zuu :) 13:30:46 <Zuu> Only when actually using an API/feature you'll find out and fix some bugs. 13:31:22 <Pikka> yep 13:32:08 <Pikka> although obviously the pain is working out if it's a bug in the feature or in your own code 13:33:12 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:46:33 *** KritiK [~Maxim@128-68-161-52.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:48:56 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-009-204.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 14:02:57 <planetmaker> that's a pretty large capacity, Pikka ;-) 14:03:19 <planetmaker> full load might take some time :-P 14:03:34 <Pikka> didn't I already say that? :} 14:03:45 *** Elu [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:04:09 <Pikka> I also like the way you can freeze aircraft in mid-air, that's a fun thing to do 14:07:19 <planetmaker> yes, you probably did 14:10:56 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:13:19 <SpComb> what happens if a plane runs out of range? 14:14:05 <Pikka> it will stop on the ground at the previous airport in the order 14:14:18 <Pikka> if forced by order-skipping to fly to an airport out of range, nothing. 14:14:18 <SpComb> if you skip orders in mid-flight? 14:14:27 <SpComb> pffl 14:14:33 <SpComb> next someone writes an av8 order-skipping AI 14:15:15 <Pikka> and if you skip orders while the plane is still climbing from the runway, it freezes in mid-air. :) 14:15:33 <SpComb> that sounds like a good feature indeed 14:17:42 <SpComb> but I could see people being crazy enough to order-skip optimize their planes in multiplayer 14:18:23 <Pikka> if you're willing to babysit every plane, yes 14:19:05 <SpComb> people did it with trains, I gather 14:19:23 <SpComb> sell off the train at the destination, re-buy it at the source 14:35:04 <frosch123> i know an ai which does that, but people? :o 14:38:09 <Alberth> does testing count? :p 14:41:09 <Arafangion> Accountants probably do. 14:43:52 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:54:05 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has left #openttd [] 15:03:32 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause> [23.03.2012 19:38] <Nat_aS> I think there are more examples of train companies that fund industries than there are of train companies that are also airlines. <-- actually, the german airline "Lufthansa" did run a train line, and there's a standing agreement that airplane tickets are valid on DB trains on the same route 15:16:56 <Alberth> hi Eddi|zuHause, running the 3.3 kernel already? Fedora has a 3.3 rpm :) 15:18:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24058 /trunk/src/ (43 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#5124]: Wrong numbering of string parameters. 15:19:12 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.22.206.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 15:20:29 <Pikka> thanks frosch :) 15:20:37 <frosch123> thanks as well :) 15:20:47 <Alberth> now you have to find new bugs :p 15:28:56 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:39:14 *** Devroush [~dennis@83.101.84.188] has joined #openttd 15:43:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: already downloaded the proper rpms, didn't get to install them yet 15:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> haha, i don't know what distinguishes dbset 0.4 from later releases. but that someone prefers a ancient newgrf over less ancient grfs is interesting :) <-- i wouldn't even know where to get such an ancient version. i have only ever seen 0.5 and 0.82 downloads 15:45:26 <Eddi|zuHause> 0.5 is offered as "the last version for 'stable' TTDPatch" 15:57:58 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:04:52 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:18:45 <Nat_aS> morning 16:18:56 <Alberth> moin 16:19:23 <Nat_aS> Eddi|zuHause, yes, but most oil companies operate there own tanker lines. 16:21:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that it's very common that ship owners coincide with cargo owners 16:21:38 <Nat_aS> Except for oil companies. 16:22:05 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.100.24] has joined #openttd 16:23:30 <Eddi|zuHause> oil companies are very well known for their vertical monopolies ;) 16:24:12 <Nat_aS> yeah, I just think it's silly that horizontal minopolies are encouraged in this game but vertical ones aren't. 16:24:42 <Nat_aS> it might even be an interesting mechanic if the regional inspector could start to complain if you fund too many industries, 16:24:44 *** Elu [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 16:25:57 <Nat_aS> this is in response to Andy's "IT'S NOT TRANSPORTATION" Argument. 16:30:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not really about "it's not transportation", it's more about "it needs a proper economy model" 16:31:07 <Nat_aS> yes 16:31:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and no current developer wants to invest time in that 16:31:32 <Nat_aS> although the way you can already buy stock and take ovet other transport companies gives precident for it 16:31:38 <Nat_aS> just allow the same option for factories 16:31:54 <Eddi|zuHause> the last one was Celestar, and that was like 5 years ago 16:32:09 <Nat_aS> there stock price could be based on whether they are delivering or receiving cargo. 16:32:32 <Nat_aS> a more detailed economy could also make lategame less godmode. 16:32:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it's universally agreed that the current stock market concept is flawed and needs to be replaced 16:32:52 <Alberth> Nat_aS: there are a zillion proposals like that 16:33:19 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 16:33:26 <Alberth> listing another one is very useless, not in the last place because nobody reads an IRC log to find a new economic model 16:33:35 <Nat_aS> i mean the history of railways is full of horrible corruption and monopolies. 16:33:39 <Nat_aS> true 16:35:19 <Alberth> if you mean business, start a patch. Economic models need a LOT of balancing, basically you have to start from scratch, so it will take a long time to get the patch right 16:35:51 <Nat_aS> not a coder 16:36:23 <Nat_aS> but it should probably be exploitable, and balanced by the regional inspector trying to shoot you down at every turn. 16:36:27 <Alberth> so what, I am not a graphic artist, yet I play with blender 16:36:50 <Alberth> and I am getting better at it :p 16:38:29 <Nat_aS> art is easier to get into than coding. 16:38:37 <Nat_aS> well 3d art might be as hard. 16:40:17 <Pikka> I've never even worked out how to make a box in blender 16:40:45 <Pikka> it seems to have the most non-standard and illogical user interface of any program I've ever used. 16:40:49 <Nat_aS> oh I got that far 16:40:56 <Nat_aS> there is actualy a comand to make, exactly that 16:41:05 <Nat_aS> making more complex shapes is harder though. 16:41:14 <Nat_aS> and yes the UI is, in a word, illogical. 16:43:29 <Nat_aS> but that seems to be a problem with a lot of free software, it made sense to the person who coded it. and nobody paid him to make one that would make sense to others. 16:46:25 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-009-204.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 16:48:10 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 16:53:46 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 16:58:53 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:05:16 <Alberth> the UI is geared towards professional users, which means you have a steep learning curve 17:06:06 <valhallasw> Alberth: a professional UI can still be intuitive or not 17:06:15 <Nat_aS> yes 17:06:21 <Nat_aS> I am not implying it can't be. 17:06:24 <valhallasw> s/professional UI/UI for professionals 17:06:31 <Pikka> Alberth: I'm not unexperienced in 3d graphics, and there are some fairly standard conventions across most programs 17:06:44 <Alberth> valhallasw: it probably is, to them. but a newbie does other things than a professional 17:07:06 <Pikka> blender is like a word processor where the authors have decided that all the keys will produce a different letter from usual 17:07:06 <Nat_aS> but in the free software market(Ha market for free things) UI for something even as simple as say a video player can be a mess of buttons 17:07:37 <Nat_aS> a good example of pro softwhere that makes no sense however would be the new MS word 17:07:45 <Nat_aS> all the MS programs have a fucked up interface now. 17:07:59 <valhallasw> Nat_aS: are you talking about the 2007 change or the upcoming one? 17:08:11 <Nat_aS> and the free alternatives... well they all look like what there MS equivlent looked like pre 2007 17:08:13 <Nat_aS> the 2007 change 17:08:14 <valhallasw> because the office 2007 change is backed by a lot of UI research 17:08:18 <Nat_aS> what does the new one look like? 17:08:30 <Nat_aS> you mean some people managed to rip MS off? 17:08:40 <valhallasw> no, I mean you're wrong 17:09:15 <valhallasw> the research proves the interface makes sense to the target audience 17:09:16 <Alberth> valhallasw: 'research' doesn't mean anything 17:09:33 <Alberth> you can buy any research result you want 17:09:41 <Nat_aS> the target audience of MS softwhere is everyone and there cousin. 17:09:46 <Nat_aS> and lots of people dislike the change 17:09:54 <Nat_aS> hence the research is worthless. 17:10:00 <valhallasw> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jensenh/archive/2008/03/12/the-story-of-the-ribbon.aspx 17:10:17 <valhallasw> 'I dislike the result, so the research is useless' 17:10:19 <Alberth> one unified UI for all is doomed to fail no matter what 17:10:32 <Alberth> valhallasw: I never even used the program 17:10:47 <valhallasw> I was referring to Nat_aS' comment 17:11:05 <valhallasw> I agree with you that 'one UI for all' will never be good for every user 17:11:17 <Alberth> s/every/any/ :) 17:11:23 <valhallasw> but you comment about research is just nonsense 17:11:29 <Nat_aS> oh, apparently office 2007 was designed for touch screens 17:11:32 <Nat_aS> that makes sense now 17:11:49 <valhallasw> it's not that you hire someone to tell you you're doing the right thing 17:11:59 <valhallasw> you're trying to find out what 'the right thing' is by measuring stuff 17:12:36 <Alberth> valhallasw: there is a positive correlation between a research question, the answer, and the answer that a client would like to have 17:13:28 <Nat_aS> throwing money at researchers is not the end all. Yes it is important, but just because the people you paid tell you what you want to hear, does not mean it's right 17:13:33 <Nat_aS> no matter how much you pay them. 17:13:40 <valhallasw> jesus christ 17:13:45 <valhallasw> did you guys even read what I wrote? 17:13:46 <Nat_aS> Even global superpower nations make this mistake. 17:13:54 <valhallasw> 18:14 < valhallasw> it's not that you hire someone to tell you you're doing the right thing 17:13:57 <valhallasw> 18:14 < valhallasw> you're trying to find out what 'the right thing' is by measuring stuff 17:14:43 <Nat_aS> yes, and measuing stuff told us that new coke was a good idea. 17:15:48 <Nat_aS> I will admit however, that people complain about change no matter what, esp if it's cosmetic change 17:16:05 <Nat_aS> because that's the most noticeable 17:17:34 <Nat_aS> and free software is not immune, look at ubuntu's new unity desktop 17:18:10 <valhallasw> Nat_aS: of course, there is a difference in marketing research ('what do people like') and UI research ('what allows people to do things efficiently') 17:18:35 <Nat_aS> well only one of them will increase sales and make the customer happy. 17:18:44 <valhallasw> I don't know if MS did marketing research on the new UI, and/or how they interpreted changes 17:18:54 <valhallasw> er, negative reponses 17:19:09 <valhallasw> No. Because the end-user is generally not the one buying the software. 17:19:15 <Chris_Booth> guess what 17:19:18 <Nat_aS> good point 17:19:19 <valhallasw> Especially in the case of Office 17:19:24 <Nat_aS> that is a very good point 17:34:26 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d110-32-48-235.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]] 17:41:23 *** kaenkky [~kaenkky_@GYCDIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 17:57:59 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 18:06:37 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 18:11:30 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 18:25:15 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-104-81.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:25:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 18:30:28 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-76-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:42:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24059 /trunk/src/lang/latvian.txt: 18:42:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:42:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 36 changes by Parastais 18:45:54 <Nat_aS> speaking of UIs, does OTTD need an update to it's menus? 18:46:11 <Nat_aS> like the depot menu was not designed for trainsets like the 2cc set 18:49:39 <__ln__> *its 18:56:20 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:58:49 <Nat_aS> thank you 19:04:13 <rane> __ln__: ... lol 19:04:19 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:58 <__ln__> np 19:19:59 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable085.125-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 19:20:01 <drac_boy> hi 19:27:37 <Alberth> hi 19:30:46 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@173.11.21.237] has joined #openttd 19:36:15 <drac_boy> hi Alberth how doing? 19:41:00 <Alberth> bored :) 19:41:21 <Alberth> wrote code all day, but not enough to get it running 19:42:18 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:44:23 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ipd50adc22.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:45:04 <drac_boy> what kind of code? 19:49:11 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:49:36 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 19:49:44 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has left #openttd [] 19:49:55 <Alberth> c++ code: guests in parks, and aircraft going from X to Y :) 19:50:56 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 19:51:03 <drac_boy> heh ok 19:51:14 <drac_boy> sounds like fun anyhow 19:51:32 <Nat_aS> is there any way to place specific buildings in the scenerio editor? 19:51:35 <Alberth> oh, and I tried drawing some lines with agg, but it's complicated :p 19:51:57 <Nat_aS> I've seen some scenerios with cities that look really handmade. 19:52:16 <Alberth> Nat_aS: the only way I know is by building random, and if it's the wrong house, remove it again 19:52:53 <Nat_aS> then whoever made this scerio is insane. 19:52:54 <Alberth> not something I'd want to do 19:54:07 <Nat_aS> look up the scenario called Cindini 19:54:16 <frosch123> yes, they are insane 19:54:21 <zooks> its done with expand and delete 19:54:28 <Nat_aS> it's huge, has detailed neiborhoods for all the cities, and is probably unplayable. 19:54:47 <zooks> there is a patch for placing buildings manually but in its current state it's not compatible with trunk 19:54:48 <Nat_aS> it has industries, but it's so hilly I can't imagine building networks on it. 19:55:12 <drac_boy> nat_as is it too hilly for even a 4-tiles station? 19:55:20 <Nat_aS> possibly 19:55:28 <Nat_aS> and 4 tiles stations on a map that huge would be sad. 19:55:31 <drac_boy> hmm sounds like something more for trams/roads perhaps 19:55:34 <drac_boy> :) 19:55:39 <Nat_aS> http://www.doneereenwebsite.nl/cindini/map_cindini.jpg 19:56:02 <drac_boy> oh or water too yeah 19:56:06 <Nat_aS> it has an extensive highway network 19:56:06 <zooks> Ive played the cindini map quite some time and it is possible to get a nice network by carefully deleting some urban areas 19:56:12 <Zuu> Hmm, inserting something with eg priority 1490042763 breaks Fibonacci Heap. It only accepts priorities < 268435455 or it crashes. 19:56:16 <Nat_aS> so busses might work 19:56:28 <drac_boy> hmm I'll have to try that map now that you mentioned it 19:56:47 <frosch123> Nat_aS: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=58204 <- take a look at the real screenshots .p 19:57:21 <Nat_aS> but I blame the inability to place trains docks in airports for this kind of developer's neglecting of the posibility of train networks 19:57:42 <Nat_aS> I wish this kind of energey could be harvested to making gameable maps 19:58:22 <drac_boy> umm what you mean by 'trains docks in airports'? 19:58:28 <Nat_aS> and airports 19:58:31 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:58:46 <drac_boy> oh 19:58:48 <Nat_aS> I mean you can't make a scenario with preexisting networks 19:58:52 <Nat_aS> and companies. 19:59:04 <drac_boy> nat_as well its meant that way because theres no 'player' in the sense 19:59:21 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:59:28 <Nat_aS> well you could make a company that gets taken over by the player at the start of the game. 19:59:49 <Nat_aS> or competitor companies that start out with full networks. 20:00:22 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 20:01:06 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has left #openttd [] 20:01:32 <Nat_aS> what we have right now is not so much a scenerio editor but a map editor 20:01:50 <Nat_aS> a scenario usually has more complex circumstances in it. 20:02:28 <Nat_aS> like "Take over this failing company and make it profitable" or "Compete with these existing companies and eventually buy them out" or 20:02:36 <Nat_aS> "Deal with these pre-scripted disasters" 20:03:01 * Zuu tries the Fibonacci from NoCAB 20:03:06 <drac_boy> thats not a tycoon company game..more like stragety game? :) 20:03:17 <Nat_aS> ... 20:03:19 <Nat_aS> not really 20:03:26 <Nat_aS> lots of tycoon company games have scenerios like that 20:03:28 * Alberth points Nat_aS to goal scripts 20:03:41 <Nat_aS> and yes those are a step in the right direction. 20:03:52 <drac_boy> nat_as even Railroad Tycoon is listed as a stragety game fyi 20:04:00 <Nat_aS> but the ability to place company infrastructure in the editor would be nice. 20:04:14 <Nat_aS> drac_boy, all tycoon company games are strategy games. 20:04:19 <drac_boy> not really 20:04:53 <Nat_aS> anyways, games made by chris sawyer frequently have scenerios like that. 20:05:09 <Nat_aS> you are kind of being silly here. 20:06:10 <Nat_aS> most of the maps in roller coaster tycoon featured existing infrastructure for your to build off of. And almost always had a winning condition. 20:06:23 <Nat_aS> actually they all had winning conditions. 20:06:43 <Ammler> afaik, the "old" scenarios had companies in it, clearing companies in sceanrios is a openttd feature 20:07:02 <drac_boy> hmm true but btw it depended on which cd it was. one of the expansion pack was pretty much almost all blank maps 20:07:40 * drac_boy had RCT with two expansions. only kept one of the latter tho 20:07:41 <Ammler> well, I meant the old openttd scenarios, clearing companies was introduced around 0.7 20:08:11 <drac_boy> mm 20:08:42 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-96-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:44 <Ammler> can't you just make saves instead? 20:08:56 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-96-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:09:03 <Ammler> might not be banananble 20:09:22 <Nat_aS> yes, but the argument that A) Tycoon games are distinct from strategy games, and B) that scenario scenerios are not found in them is such a terrible argument. 20:09:32 <Nat_aS> and yes Ammler that is a workaround, but it's not really a good one 20:09:59 <Nat_aS> allowing placement of companies in the scenario editor would add a lot of powerful options. 20:10:10 <Ammler> I guess, clearing companies was an accident by an other feature :-) 20:10:19 <Nat_aS> also it would allow the scenario editor to be used as a sandbox mode. 20:10:47 <Eddi|zuHause> good news everybody! 20:11:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i can now say with definity, that r23703 breaks the 32px depot flag 20:11:15 <Nat_aS> banananble? 20:11:29 <Ammler> you can't upload saves to bananas 20:11:56 <Eddi|zuHause> he meant bananaable 20:12:04 <Nat_aS> yeah what does that mean? 20:12:11 <Ammler> hmm, you could try to simply reanme a sav to scn 20:12:35 <Nat_aS> that sounds like it would crash things a lot. 20:12:49 <Ammler> should not, that is the way, how you edit a save 20:13:00 <Nat_aS> oh 20:13:03 <Nat_aS> really? 20:13:34 <Ammler> yes, just do not laod it into the scenario editor as that would clean the companies 20:13:48 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Interesting, but quite surprising. 20:14:11 <Nat_aS> oh 20:15:44 <Nat_aS> http://www.chrissawyergames.com/images/b8.gif 20:15:51 <Nat_aS> this is chris sawyer's house 20:15:52 <Nat_aS> :o 20:16:34 <Nat_aS> http://www.chrissawyergames.com/images/b7.gif this is chris sawyer's university. 20:16:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: yes, we all saw that page before :) 20:20:00 <Alberth> Ammler: hi, I tried to update the hg hook script, but I failed, it seems fundamentally broken :( 20:20:29 <Alberth> which means I have to start from square 1 :( 20:20:31 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.22.206.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:22 <Ammler> the one on our server? 20:21:33 <Ammler> hmm, that should still work 20:22:11 <Ammler> feel free to use the repo test for it 20:22:22 <Alberth> maybe because you don't have the hook script in the repo itself, or because you have a checked-out copy of the repo? 20:22:49 <Alberth> I could not get info from a file in the repo, which is bot at the disk as checked out copy 20:22:51 <Ammler> we link directly to the script in the repo checkout 20:23:01 <Ammler> ah 20:23:04 <Alberth> *not 20:23:28 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@75-141-134-16.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com] has joined #openttd 20:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: yeah, i see that the commit touches that function, but i see no (obvious) functionality change 20:25:30 <Ammler> remote: error: changegroup.notify hook raised an exception: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '.devzone/hooks/notify.ini' 20:25:43 <Ammler> Alberth: tried to push a commit with a file .grf 20:25:48 <Ammler> oh 20:25:52 <Ammler> I see 20:26:02 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: try to compile without optimisation 20:26:06 <Ammler> that is the "Eddi|zuHause" Hook 20:27:11 <frosch123> or put a breakpoint at newgrf.cpp:6694 20:27:19 <frosch123> when _cur.grffile->traininfo_vehicle_width is assigned 20:27:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it "works" when i revert that commit on current trunk 20:28:04 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@75-141-134-16.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com] has left #openttd [] 20:28:20 <Ammler> Alberth: but the current hook still works, you have issues to get the casecheck working, right? 20:28:29 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: no idea how to work with breakpoints 20:28:37 <Ammler> remote: File ".devzone/test.blub" may not be added to the repository.transaction abort! 20:28:39 <Ammler> remote: rollback completed 20:28:40 <Ammler> remote: abort: pretxnchangegroup.check hook failed 20:28:44 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: only ever used those in an IDE 20:28:58 <Alberth> Ammler: I created a test setup, but cannot get a value different from the defaults, even if I set a value in the config file. Debugging showed it does not load the file from the repo 20:29:26 <Ammler> we have global rule to forbid .grf 20:29:45 <Ammler> but we can still have local rule to allow it 20:30:18 <Ammler> global: https://hg.openttdcoop.org/misc/file/71887afdcf39/mercurial/hooks/repo_checks.ini 20:30:41 <Alberth> loading from disk works 20:30:45 <Ammler> repo: https://hg.openttdcoop.org/test/file/aff739fc275a/.devzone/hooks/repo_checks.ini 20:31:01 <Eddi|zuHause> [24.03.2012 21:28] <Ammler> that is the "Eddi|zuHause" Hook <-- what's that have to do with me? 20:31:14 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1253/ 20:31:26 <frosch123> the best gui i know for gdb is "ddd" 20:31:32 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: email notify for commits 20:31:41 <frosch123> it's quite old and has some weird things, but i have not seen any better 20:31:52 <Ammler> Alberth: repo test has no checkout on the server 20:32:03 <Ammler> so you read the local config from repo, not file 20:32:06 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: works correctly with --enable-debug=3 20:32:11 <Alberth> Ammler: weird 20:32:49 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: so we have a optimiser bug in your compiler? 20:32:55 <Ammler> Alberth: I am specially suprised that you were able to make such a hook, but the "official" notify hook for Eddi needs a checkout :-) 20:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: quite possibly 20:33:40 <frosch123> unless you have a uncommon compiler version, that's bad :s 20:33:43 <michi_cc> MSVC debug seems to work as well, checking release now. But yes, suspect compiler bug. 20:33:53 <Alberth> Ammler: documentation is very much absent, I am not surprised 20:34:14 <Ammler> but your hook works very nice 20:34:41 <Ammler> no need of server side checkout but still customizeable per repo 20:34:49 <Alberth> running hg 1.9.3 ? 20:35:10 <Ammler> on the server, should be 2.1.1, let me check 20:35:23 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:35:29 <Ammler> hmm, no, 1.9.3 only 20:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: (gdb) b newgrf.cpp:6694 No source file named newgrf.cpp.Make breakpoint pending on future shared library load? (y or [n]) 20:35:36 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:35:46 <Ammler> that is strange 20:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: if i press 'y' there, then nothing happens upon opening the depot window 20:36:20 *** bremerjoe [57aec4a7@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:36:30 <Alberth> Ammler: yes it is. I don't understand it at all. Maybe I messed up somewhere 20:36:36 <Eddi|zuHause> > g++ --version g++ (SUSE Linux) 4.6.2 20:36:49 <bremerjoe> good evening y'all 20:36:58 <Ammler> Alberth: maybe try again with the script from our server 20:37:55 <Alberth> I thought I did that (knowing myself, I have run a diff between both versions), but I can try again 20:38:16 <Ammler> I check again, if we really run unmodified version 20:38:36 <Alberth> bremerjoe: y'all does not seem to be present, but welcome 20:39:36 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 20:40:17 <Ammler> pretxnchangegroup.check = python:/home/hg/misc/mercurial/hooks/check_commit.py:check_changegroup <-- definitly unchanged and tip 20:40:19 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: MSVC release looks good as well, so compiler I guess :( 20:40:37 <Ammler> changeset: 155:71887afdcf39 20:41:06 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [] 20:41:19 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 20:41:20 <Ammler> Alberth: as said, feel free to use repo test 20:41:27 <Ammler> cd 20:41:51 <Ammler> hg@dev:~/test> hg id 20:41:52 <Ammler> 000000000000 20:43:09 <Alberth> I'd like to have a local test setup. I am running a checkout over localhost, with hg serve. I think that should be equivalent 20:43:11 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you need to compile at least with --enable-debug 20:43:42 <frosch123> anyway, you can also try to put a "external" in front of the definition of the var in newgrf.cpp 20:43:51 <Ammler> just meant to compare answers 20:44:00 <frosch123> maybe that tells the optimizer more explicitly that the var can be modified elsewhere 20:44:06 <michi_cc> extern, not external :) 20:44:15 <frosch123> yeah :) 20:44:24 <Alberth> Ammler: will try your setup, that at least should work :p 20:44:32 <michi_cc> Or even volatile :) 20:44:38 <Ammler> hg serve? 20:44:51 <Ammler> it should also work with simple push via file 20:45:06 <frosch123> michi_cc: safe the bigger hammer for later :p 20:45:06 <Ammler> I pushed via ssh 20:45:34 <Ammler> but I am quite sure, also the http variant worked 20:45:50 <Alberth> until it works, I like to eliminate as many causes as possible 20:46:08 <Alberth> I would be very sad if I have to run ssh 20:46:54 <Ammler> well, locally, you do it that way (just without ssh) :-) 20:47:04 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:47:13 <Ammler> you don't use serve usually 20:47:42 * Alberth nods 20:47:59 <Alberth> but the normal ways didn't work either 20:47:59 <Ammler> you do? :-o 20:48:28 <Ammler> Alberth: maybe you simply forgot to setup the hook? 20:48:38 <Ammler> hgrc 20:48:58 <Alberth> nope, I got errors from it :p 20:49:22 <Alberth> and output, just not the right output ;) 20:49:34 <Ammler> the script and global ini is checkout 20:49:54 <Alberth> well, I'll try again 20:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: gdb output http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1254/ (repeated several times with the same values) 20:51:47 <frosch123> Ammler: is there an update to that pastebin thingie available? 20:52:04 <frosch123> it always breaks when reading replies, and you have to clear the cookies 20:54:38 <Ammler> hmm, true, this is another todo :-/ 20:55:28 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: well, not exactly what i wanted, but it also shows the problem: _misc_grf_features != res 20:56:08 <Ammler> frosch123: in this case, I don't see the advantage to make a replay, though 20:56:15 <Ammler> -a 20:56:42 <frosch123> what? 20:57:00 <frosch123> eddi replied to my paste, and i wanted to read it 20:57:16 <Ammler> well, he replied and replaced everything 20:57:50 <Ammler> I just meant, an alternative would be to remove reply at all 20:58:25 <Ammler> as nobody yet was able to tell me how to fix it :-) 20:58:28 <Eddi|zuHause> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1255/ <-- with --enable-debug=3 21:00:28 <frosch123> does the "extern" thingie help? 21:03:14 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:03:16 <Eddi|zuHause> src/newgrf.cpp:68:13: warning: â_misc_grf_featuresâ initialized and declared âexternâ [enabled by default] 21:04:14 <Eddi|zuHause> no change 21:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but "volatile" seems to do something 21:10:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm gonna screw up my system now, might take a while... 21:11:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7472F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 21:16:21 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:31:09 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 21:32:20 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable085.125-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 21:34:57 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:38:59 <Nat_aS> bough locomotion on GOG 21:39:07 <Nat_aS> why are there no advanced signal types? 21:39:08 <Nat_aS> :c 21:39:47 <Nat_aS> realistic turning was intresting, but I can't make any kind of network using only normal signals 21:40:32 <peter1138> lomo smells 21:40:59 <peter1138> sad but true 21:41:36 <Nat_aS> also it's almst as ugly as sumutrans 21:41:40 <Nat_aS> ALMOST 21:42:12 <Nat_aS> Somehow pre-rendered sprites worked in RTC (RTC would probably be imposible to do with pixel art), but not in locomo 21:49:47 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:50:11 <Nat_aS> it's strange because RTC was going to be an updaited engine for TTD 21:50:22 <Nat_aS> but apparently it sucks for that sort of thing 21:50:36 *** kaenkky [~kaenkky_@GYCDIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:54:14 <Nat_aS> sucks because I'd say 3d networks are the most wanted feature out of TTD 21:54:19 <Nat_aS> and the hardest to implement. 21:55:35 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7472F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:58:15 <MNIM> 3d networks? 21:58:33 <frosch123> railtrack going vertically to the moon 21:59:27 <Terkhen> good night 21:59:33 <Wolf01> night Terkhen 22:00:04 <Eddi|zuHause> so... at least it booted :) 22:01:07 <Wolf01> I would like to have just the map rotation and the unlinked terrain blocks, for the other things OTTD is really better than LoMo 22:01:08 <Nat_aS> Elivated rails and subways 22:01:19 <Nat_aS> more complex bridges and tunnels 22:01:44 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:01:52 <Nat_aS> would require firstly a change in the way TTD stores memory, and secondly, all buildings to have a height variable. 22:01:58 <Eddi|zuHause> mÀh... forgot to recompile the taskbar... 22:02:25 <Nat_aS> the last would also add other interesting possibilities such as airplanes colliding with tall buildings :P 22:02:40 <Nat_aS> it's funny to watch them clip right now though. 22:02:47 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:13:42 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.100.24] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:19:58 *** k-man [~Jason@ppp167-253-181.static.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 22:20:02 <k-man> hello 22:20:36 <k-man> is 32bbp useable with osx and openttd 1.2.0-rc3? 22:24:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, openttd 1.2.x on OSX can use 32bpp. no, no existing 32bpp pack can be used with openttd 1.2.x 22:25:42 <k-man> so - its not for users yet? 22:25:54 <MNIM> oh, like that 3d networks. 22:26:50 <MNIM> yeah, lomo style building would be nice. map rotation is pretty meh to me, and would requires a ton of new sprites, which is harder to make than changing the way ottd saves stuff. 22:27:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it's for users yet. but the 32bpp pack has not followed up with the development yet 22:27:47 <k-man> Eddi|zuHause, so when a pack is made, then it will be easier to use? 22:27:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 22:41:21 <k-man> thanks Eddi|zuHause 22:41:35 <k-man> i turned on some double pixel ui once, how do i turn it off? 22:42:42 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:42:43 <frosch123> zoom out 22:42:56 <frosch123> oh, you mean the gui 22:43:06 <frosch123> go to newgrf settings and remove the extra large gui 22:43:06 <k-man> yeah the icons in the gui 22:43:19 <frosch123> can only be done in main menu for new games though 22:44:21 <k-man> oh - so once its in a game, its in the game for ever? 22:48:26 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 22:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 22:49:01 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 22:51:26 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 12.0/20120321033733]] 22:51:58 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:52:04 <k-man> whats the keyboard shortcut to increase land height? 22:57:54 <frosch123> q, w, e 22:58:09 <k-man> thanks frosch123 22:58:14 <frosch123> one of those, never can remember. it's always the second one i try :) 22:59:29 <bremerjoe> good night everybody 22:59:35 *** bremerjoe [57aec4a7@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:00:55 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 23:09:11 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:12:38 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 23:14:05 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@9YYAAETR7.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:21 *** lugo [GBerten293@oxygen.evosurge.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:26:16 <k-man> can i convert entry signals to combo? 23:26:28 <k-man> or do i just remove and rebuild them? 23:26:47 <frosch123> either use the convert tool, or ctrl+click on the signals 23:27:02 <frosch123> (ctrl+click with the signal tool) 23:27:17 <k-man> ah thanks 23:27:41 <frosch123> ctrl+click will rotate though signal types, which you can define in advanced settings 23:28:11 <k-man> whats the prefered way of making a roro exit? 23:28:16 <k-man> in terms of signaling 23:28:55 <frosch123> check the wiki or openttdcoop 23:29:02 <frosch123> there is no simple answer :) 23:29:10 <frosch123> to such a general question 23:30:25 <k-man> ok yeah it was a bit general 23:30:45 <k-man> two platform station , roro, going out to one exit track 23:31:10 <frosch123> one exit track? err... i think everything will work 23:33:49 *** GBerten2936 [GBerten293@oxygen.evosurge.com] has joined #openttd 23:34:23 <Nat_aS> Hmm, the snow line setting is not seeming to work when I try to load a heightmap 23:34:26 <frosch123> http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2010/09/28/advanced-building-revue-07-stations/ <- i think it only gets interesting with more than 2 exits 23:34:32 <Nat_aS> preventing me from making farms 23:34:58 <frosch123> s/more than 2/more than 1/ 23:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: sure you have not loaded a NewGRF with variable snowline? 23:36:54 <Nat_aS> oh? 23:37:14 <Nat_aS> the map I am stealing a heightmap from, had no snow in it 23:37:18 <Nat_aS> dispite being artic 23:38:50 <Nat_aS> it's a rather flat map 23:39:33 <Nat_aS> like only 5 levels to it 23:39:44 <Nat_aS> and snow always stats on the 3rd reguardless of setting 23:42:03 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ipd50adc22.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:26 <Rhamphoryncus> Nat_aS: double check that you have no newgrf's loaded 23:43:01 * frosch123 prepared the time machine 23:43:03 <frosch123> night :) 23:43:08 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff14d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:15 <Nat_aS> i do have newgrifs loaded 23:43:18 <Nat_aS> let me see 23:43:35 <Nat_aS> OpenGFX landscapes mess with the snowline? 23:43:41 <Rhamphoryncus> Yes 23:43:54 <Rhamphoryncus> That was my next suggestion, to use it for a work around :) 23:43:56 <Nat_aS> oh there is an option there to adjust it based on time of year. 23:44:40 * Rhamphoryncus closes mental ticket: NOTABUG ;) 23:46:38 <Nat_aS> darn, apparently I can't have fields one level below snow 23:47:05 <Nat_aS> I wanted to have farms on the foothills above the city in the valley 23:47:14 <Rhamphoryncus> yeah, you need it a level higher 23:47:57 <Rhamphoryncus> Also, be aware that variable snowlines means it annually rebuilds, then destroys fields that are too high 23:48:13 <Nat_aS> which might be an intresting effect. 23:48:21 <Nat_aS> will farms still produce without fields? 23:48:25 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:49:06 <Rhamphoryncus> yup 23:49:11 <Nat_aS> in other news, I just thought of a killer comeback when Andy comes back 23:49:48 <Nat_aS> Fishing boats are not transportion, Fishing fleets are owned by food companies. 23:50:32 <Nat_aS> if he wants to be strict about what is and is not transportation, he should just make fishing harbors be priamary producers that create food. 23:50:44 <Wolf01> 'night all 23:50:51 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-58-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:53:09 *** Devroush [~dennis@83.101.84.188] has quit []