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[~smoovi@e178233131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 07:59:51 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> resistance.oftc.net quits: tparker, Nat_aS, Eddi|zuHause, @orudge, AD, mikegrb, Lachie, CIA-1, Sacro, telanus1, (+11 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 08:01:28 *** Netsplit over, joins: Wing_, Lachie, zooks, Nat_aS, Eddi|zuHause, Rhamphoryncus, kkb110, kaenkky_, telanus1, +tokai|noir (+6 more) 08:03:41 *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::1d:4242] has joined #openttd 08:03:41 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 08:03:41 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 08:03:41 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@yoda.zernebok.com] has joined #openttd 08:03:41 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@cia.atheme.org] has joined #openttd 08:03:41 *** ServerMode/#openttd [+ov orudge orudge] by charm.oftc.net 08:06:56 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:39:54 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:47:57 *** 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known as Achilleshiel 10:41:29 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 10:43:28 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:48:48 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:50:45 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:52:34 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-177-236.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 10:58:13 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:59:16 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:02:10 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:11:04 <Rhamphoryncus> Gee, I just rebuilt my airport, now the plane that was about to arrive is just going in tight circles.. err... :P 11:11:44 <MNIM> yeah, those aircrafts pull turns that not even a fighter would be able to do :P 11:13:33 <peter1138> check its orders 11:13:45 <peter1138> if it hasn't crashed already :p 11:15:10 <Pikka> I don't know why making planes hit the statemachine prettily is considered a hurdle for newairports... they certainly don't hit the current statemachines prettily 11:15:22 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:17:17 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:17:21 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 11:18:31 <Rhamphoryncus> The airport was a drop, joined with some other stations at a factory. Emphasis on "was" 11:19:08 <Rhamphoryncus> By the 3rd attempt I got it right 11:29:11 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:30:53 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:33:17 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 11:39:07 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:43:03 *** cypher [~Miranda@host-184-88.wifi.fsid.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 11:45:37 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 11:45:38 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:52:00 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 11:57:27 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 11:59:52 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 12:07:59 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:5436:5773:d38d:e0cd] has joined #openttd 12:08:02 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:08:04 *** CQ [~chatzilla@p4FD0F87A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:10:00 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-177-236.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:10:45 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-175-42.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 12:11:23 <CQ> is there a way I can get openttd to automatically grab graphics and sound on startup? I get the message Error: Failed to find a graphics set. Please acquire a graphics set for OpenTTD. See section 4.1 of readme.txt. 12:11:55 <CQ> If I grab the mercurial files, I guess I need to build the data first before putting it in .openttd/* ? 12:12:20 *** ix [kvamtroe@cassarossa.samfundet.no] has left #openttd [] 12:12:43 <Pinkbeast> What is the difficulty with the instructions in section 4.1 of the readme? 12:13:01 <MNIM> they're in letters. 12:13:04 <MNIM> letters are hard 12:15:31 *** cypher [~Miranda@host-184-88.wifi.fsid.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 12:26:22 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 12:31:41 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we should encode them in numbers instead 12:31:52 <Eddi|zuHause> numbers are easier, because they are fewer 12:34:28 <__ln__> yeah, only from zero to infinity 12:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> sorry. i meant digits :) 12:51:28 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:32 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 12:55:21 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 13:01:22 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:21:29 *** goodger [~ben@94.30.43.248] has joined #openttd 13:25:51 <Belugas> hello 13:30:06 *** guru3_ [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 13:30:06 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:33 <goodger> hi 13:45:03 <CQ> wouldn't it make sense to name the road vehivles after what they can transport, i.e. Livestock11 and Coal14 etc.? 13:49:33 <planetmaker> CQ: wouldn't that be dead boring? 13:50:23 <planetmaker> CQ: and... new versions of openttd DO grab all files upon startup, if not found (at least on windows and linux) 13:53:06 <planetmaker> but generally, CQ, especially if you have several installs, do put your base sets and newgrf files in the user's global openttd data dir (not relative to the binary) 13:54:18 <Belugas> CQ: I think it would make sens for you, but it might very well be against other players schemes 13:54:35 <Belugas> bottom line: adapt, don't impose ;) 13:54:39 <Belugas> my thoughs 13:55:52 <peter1138> i don't name my vehicles 13:55:58 <peter1138> i'm lazy 14:02:00 <Pikka> next 1.2 RC due soon? :) 14:02:53 <Pikka> and it's true, he is 14:03:02 <planetmaker> why RC? :-P 14:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think we ever had a 4th RC 14:03:16 <Pikka> well 14:03:33 <Pikka> okay 14:03:45 <Pikka> just as long as "my" bugfixes get backported :) 14:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but with the amount of prospected bugfixes, a last-minute RC might be useful 14:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause> like 3 days before release 14:04:35 <Pikka> yes 14:04:41 <planetmaker> what would be the use therein, Eddi|zuHause? 14:04:53 <planetmaker> it would not get any test, thus a pointless RC 14:05:00 *** Firartix [~artixds@12.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 14:05:02 <Pikka> it would get 3 days of test 14:05:15 <Pikka> better than a poke in the eye with a damp marshmallow 14:05:17 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: ideally, there should be no changes between an RC and a release 14:05:36 <planetmaker> Yes, of course there shouldn't 14:05:54 <planetmaker> but ideally there should be *some* significant testing between RC and release 14:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i said 3 days 14:06:44 <Pikka> insignificant testing 14:06:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and not 3 hours 14:07:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the main idea is to test things that may get broken by the backports themselves 14:08:19 *** cypher [~Miranda@cat58-r92.cesnet.cz] has joined #openttd 14:11:55 *** guru3_ [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B9E0.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:17:11 <Belugas> i see that peter1138 has the same game style as mine ;) 14:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause> you actually play the game? :p 14:18:06 <CornishPasty> There's a game? 14:18:18 <peter1138> loads of changes without RC, no thanks 14:18:21 <peter1138> i know, it's more work... 14:18:27 <oskari89> Hey, does someone know about graphics palette? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=43560&start=120#p1003388 Help would be appreciated there :P 14:19:03 <oskari89> So, is that sand tile within TTD-Win palette? 14:19:54 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, i kinda get back on it, on my way home :) 14:22:40 <Eddi|zuHause> oskari89: generally, making a small test grf (with either grfcodec or nml) will tell you whether it's the right palette 14:22:53 <Eddi|zuHause> oskari89: also, you might consider switching to DOS palette 14:23:40 <planetmaker> yeah. No point using the windoze palette for new newgrfs. 14:25:15 <planetmaker> and grfcodec or nml will naturally complain, if a graphics file has the wrong palette 14:26:45 <planetmaker> oskari89: why do you draw there X times the equipment cabin instead of composing that as tile layout in the game (and drawing each ground tile only once and each view of the cabin only once and gaining the chance to easily use other ground tiles, too) 14:26:55 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 14:27:15 <planetmaker> the cabin could be a micron-sized building on top of a ground tile 14:27:49 <planetmaker> same actually with all the houses and whatever 14:27:59 <planetmaker> less work. easier extended to other ground tiles 14:32:54 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:41 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 14:35:57 <oskari89> Planetmaker: I don't know about tile layouts :P 14:36:02 *** DonKarnage_ [~266c5714@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:36:15 <oskari89> That's why i did paste all those.. 14:36:33 <planetmaker> oskari89: did you write a station newgrf so far? (I thought so) 14:36:42 <oskari89> No, i didn't :P 14:37:03 <oskari89> I wait for a coder to do his job, which i have already.. 14:37:06 <planetmaker> otherwise I really would like to suggest to post the (ground) tiles separately and the single elements on it as seaprate sprites 14:37:17 <DonKarnage_> Is there anything that can control how much each industries produces? 14:37:18 <planetmaker> then the coder can arrange them on the tiles 14:37:42 <planetmaker> ok, sorry, I thought we were in the process of writing it already, oskari89 14:38:20 <oskari89> Base tiles are there, just need to do little changes, such as that sand.... 14:38:53 <planetmaker> one can compose the stuff on a tile as ground tile (+ child sprites within its bounding box) + building sprite (+ child sprites within its bounding box) 14:38:59 <planetmaker> yeah 14:39:12 <planetmaker> thus much less drawing is actually needed 14:39:33 <planetmaker> you only need to draw the building (w/o ground) from all views. You don't need to add ground there 14:40:03 <planetmaker> you might want to create an additional sprite which shows the buildings footprint in black (for the transparent mode) 14:40:19 <oskari89> Ok. 14:40:24 <oskari89> Thanks for the info. 14:40:32 <planetmaker> always welcome 14:44:24 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/raw/sprites/graphics/industries/buildersyard.png might illustrate how e.g. FIRS does it for the builder's yard 14:44:42 <planetmaker> note that the dirt tracks are drawn on top of the default ground tile 14:44:52 <planetmaker> which the newgrf does not supply itself :-) 14:45:21 <planetmaker> thus it's base set ground + dirt tracks + one of the buildings shown there 14:45:48 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 14:46:15 <planetmaker> (and icy tracks for snowy terrain: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/raw/sprites/graphics/industries/buildersyard_snow.png 14:46:52 <planetmaker> thus you might want to consider also drawing snow versions of your buildings. Or maybe just a separate sprite which adds snow on top :-) 14:47:01 <planetmaker> might be more interesting actually 14:47:19 <planetmaker> as it allows easier adjustment of house sprites w/o need to touch the snow house in the same way 14:48:54 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 14:53:07 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:53:29 <planetmaker> oskari89: I wonder whether some of that stuff could become part of the CHIPS station set 14:53:48 <planetmaker> (need to ask andy / yexo about CHIPS) 14:56:00 *** zooks_ [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 14:56:00 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:03 *** cl8 [~cccc@host-92-3-247-120.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 14:59:10 *** DonKarnage_ [~266c5714@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:03:12 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:04:00 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has joined #openttd 15:06:04 <oskari89> Well, what part of those? 15:08:21 *** cypher [~Miranda@cat58-r92.cesnet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:08:42 <planetmaker> well, that's what would need discussion I guess. It's andy's baby. 15:11:09 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-18-157.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:14:20 <oskari89> Planetmaker: But no need to replace already done stuff with overlaying those sprites.. ? 15:16:24 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-7-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:19:50 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-106-10-184.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]] 15:20:32 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-137-143.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:20:35 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 15:25:55 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-18-157.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:29:20 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you make tracks from ice? 15:44:13 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 15:44:48 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-074-073.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 15:51:37 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:53:58 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause> http://img.pr0gramm.com/2012/03/522264-3540143872726-1546310408-3039323-273015234-n.jpg 15:57:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AB65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:57:55 <planetmaker> hehe 15:59:38 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:47 <planetmaker> oskari89: well. Needed certainly not 16:00:23 <planetmaker> maybe it's easier to code, though 16:00:30 <planetmaker> depends a bit on approach 16:02:47 <CQ> how do you remove a signal? 16:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause> press R 16:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> (or the bulldozer button) 16:04:45 <CQ> well, that worked, now how do I remove a train wreck ? ;) 16:05:21 <Eddi|zuHause> load your previous savegame, which you certainly did right before messing with signals on a live junction :p 16:05:41 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise, wait like one month 16:05:43 <CQ> lol as I was experimenting no big loss ;) 16:06:13 <oskari89> Hmm, there's town cars... 16:06:22 <oskari89> But why there's no sports cars? :D 16:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone know bash-fu? need a function that reads the output of a command and say whether it is "true" or "false" 16:08:49 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:09:09 <oskari89> But there's this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=35126 :D 16:10:23 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 16:11:10 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that seemed to work... 16:14:09 <oskari89> Mazda RX7 and Nissan Skyline R32 would be nice in that set.. :) 16:15:14 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:20:55 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 16:21:34 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:23:37 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:29:26 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:29:57 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:31:08 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:32:03 <oskari89> In fact, online OpenTTD streetracing/roadracing mod would be amusing. 16:32:47 <Nat_aS> wut? 16:33:16 <Nat_aS> is there a way to get towns to generate civilian cars? 16:33:29 <Nat_aS> to cause traffic jams and provide eye candy? 16:34:11 <oskari89> There is a AI for that, and grf.. :P 16:35:09 <Nat_aS> could it be tied into town growth? 16:35:36 <Nat_aS> like if you send lots of goods it goes up, but if you provide transportation it goes down? 16:36:17 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds good. go ahead :) 16:36:39 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:36:50 <oskari89> If someone writes a patch for it.. :P 16:39:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:40:36 *** zooks_ [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:42:09 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fce93.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:42:23 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:42:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 16:43:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B9E0.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:43:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B9E0.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:46:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:47:12 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:48:42 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:49:00 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:50:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 16:56:47 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:58:47 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 16:59:08 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:00:31 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-074-073.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 17:02:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:02:22 <Eddi|zuHause> oskari89: it should be already possible, if you convert the AI into a GameScript 17:05:28 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:06:15 <Terkhen> hello 17:12:11 <andythenorth> 'make choo choo' 17:12:29 <andythenorth> "new in 1.2.0: the toddler interface" 17:14:50 <andythenorth> I've attached a preview here: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2730/make_choo_choo.png 17:14:51 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:15:13 <V453000> wtf :-D 17:21:38 <Terkhen> http://photo-dictionary.com/photofiles/list/5566/9735toy_train.jpg <--- it already exists 17:21:40 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:26:03 <V453000> oh, I dont have such train in NUTS yet 17:26:04 <V453000> :D 17:32:11 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:39:32 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:42:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24076 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed) 17:42:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:42:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 4 changes by OliTTD 17:42:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv 17:42:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 1 changes by Parastais 17:42:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 2 changes by Stabilitronas 17:42:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 8 changes by Phreeze 17:43:23 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:59 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-105-235.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:00:14 *** Afdal [~chatzilla@host-174-45-176-7.chy-wy.client.bresnan.net] has joined #openttd 18:00:24 *** Afdal [~chatzilla@host-174-45-176-7.chy-wy.client.bresnan.net] has left #openttd [] 18:05:56 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:05:59 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:06:11 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:07:36 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:12:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:13:36 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 18:13:55 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:13:56 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:18:42 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:19:24 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:50 <Nat_aS> 8 way rotations scare me 18:24:33 <Nat_aS> I mean 12 18:25:15 <Nat_aS> the train sprites that can be rotated in 12 directions scare me because I can't imagine spriting up all those angles, and I'm afraid it will encourage people to trace 3dcg models 18:25:26 <Nat_aS> and next thing we know, we are Simutrans/Locomotion 18:25:33 <Nat_aS> and all the charming pixel art is lost. 18:29:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:32:57 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:34:41 <V453000> Nat_aS: I have pretty much exactly the same opinion :) 18:35:12 <Nat_aS> the problem with incresing technical graphics, is you have to increse artist skill along with it 18:35:17 <Nat_aS> or the result will be ugly 18:35:29 <Nat_aS> i'm not one of those guys who hates 3d games 18:35:37 <Nat_aS> but I don't like it when they overlap 18:37:18 <V453000> well, I myself do not intend to switch to 32bpp/extra zoom/24rotations. Colours simply because I like drawing in the limited palette for pixel art, zoom simply because I consider that pointless and the main focus still has to be the normal zoom, and rotations simply because that would taky waaaay too much more effort than it does now 18:38:07 <V453000> but on the other hand I can imagine that combining all of those three with 3dcg modelling could look great 18:38:26 <andythenorth> V453000: your stuff will be increasingly left behind 18:38:44 <andythenorth> we're now in a simutrans world of multiple non-compatible paks 18:38:45 <V453000> too bad :) 18:39:00 <andythenorth> whereas previously all grfs were in principle, compatible 18:39:02 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-074-073.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 18:39:07 <andythenorth> now there will be competing standards 18:39:16 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:40:01 <V453000> well, why not :) 18:40:17 <V453000> I will stay with the old standards however 18:41:08 <Nat_aS> soon we will be simutrans 18:41:22 <Nat_aS> PACK 128! ugly traced 3dcgi all day every day 18:41:43 <Nat_aS> the higher resolution you get though, the more glaring inconsistencies in scale become tohugh. 18:41:45 <V453000> lol :)) 18:41:48 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:43:42 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 18:45:40 <Nat_aS> really, I want to see a train game where tracks take up quarter tiles. 18:45:53 <Nat_aS> or rather houses and roads are twice as wide as tracks. 18:46:06 <V453000> hm? 18:46:34 <V453000> strange requirement 18:46:50 <Nat_aS> the scale problem comes from the fact that everything is 1 square wide. 18:46:58 <Nat_aS> a house, a road, a train track 18:47:02 <Nat_aS> all a single tile 18:47:19 <frosch123> multi tile stuff is a lot more complicated 18:47:26 <Pinkbeast> Surely a more glaringly unavoidable scale problem is length rather than width? 18:48:14 <Nat_aS> well in this case, train cars would be more than 1 tile long 18:48:29 <Nat_aS> trains and there tracks are long and thin, houses and roads are wider. 18:48:59 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest7943 18:49:06 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:49:31 <V453000> lol, I cant say I ever cared about scales, lengths or whatever 18:50:29 <Pinkbeast> That doesn't matter. A car can be 2 tiles or 1 or 1/2, but: "player can pan across the map sensibly", "trains have visible length on the map rather than being points", "short hops on the map are not absurdly close to train-length"... pick two. 18:51:51 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:31 *** Guest7943 [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:55:04 <Nat_aS> increse distances as well then! 18:55:48 <Pinkbeast> Now the map is unfeasibly huge; you picked numbers 2 and 3. 18:56:24 <Nat_aS> most maps are unfeasibly huge in OTTD already :V 18:56:34 <Nat_aS> what they really need to do is add move upwards zoom levels 18:56:39 <Nat_aS> so you can actualy see the map 18:57:00 <Nat_aS> probably also make things more visible without having to consult the minmap 18:57:14 <Nat_aS> like when you zoom all the way out, you start to see an overlay 18:57:21 <Nat_aS> like supreme commander. 18:57:24 <Pinkbeast> That's "trains appear as points", if the map is really vast and you have to zoom right out to use it 18:57:49 <Nat_aS> they would not appear as points on regular zoom 18:57:53 <Nat_aS> just when you zoom all the way out 18:58:09 <Nat_aS> and I was thinking more of factories and towns appear as points 18:58:17 <Nat_aS> and trains are invisible at high zoom levels 18:58:21 <Pinkbeast> OK, so you're letting the player choose whether the game fails #1 or #2. You still can't have all 3. 18:58:25 <Nat_aS> so the game does not slow down 18:58:38 <Nat_aS> you don't need all three at once though. 18:58:46 <CQ> how do you make cities grow faster? people transport, and give them goods, or is more needed? 18:59:02 <Pinkbeast> Errr yes, since I'm saying you can't have all three at once, I presumably know that 18:59:02 <Nat_aS> just that 18:59:07 <Nat_aS> unless it's tropical 18:59:12 <Nat_aS> then they need water as well 18:59:14 *** zooks_ [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 18:59:16 <Nat_aS> and you forgot food. 18:59:26 <Nat_aS> they need food, goods, and most importantly pasingers and mail 18:59:33 <Nat_aS> water if they are in a desert. 18:59:53 <Nat_aS> i don't think goods and food are nessary, but they help 19:00:13 <Nat_aS> unless it's the desert, then water and food are nessary 19:00:21 <Nat_aS> i'm not sure about alpine 19:03:17 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:31 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:07:39 <oskari89> Is OpenTTD going to have 24 rotations? 19:07:47 <oskari89> ^ 19:07:56 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 19:09:25 <Nat_aS> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/2731/255_9_Virgin_8bpp_normal.png some newgrfs will, the engine supports it now. 19:09:55 <oskari89> Ok, what about tracks? 19:09:56 <Nat_aS> keep in mind that 24 is just 12 twice 19:10:06 <Nat_aS> no, tracks are still 8 ways 19:10:21 <Nat_aS> but this allows trains to turn corners more gracefully. 19:10:25 * andythenorth will draw buildings instead 19:10:29 <andythenorth> with 1 rotation :P 19:10:41 <Nat_aS> i want to see sprites for going up and down hills without looking silly. 19:10:44 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:11:16 <oskari89> Corners are a pain, i would like to see curves instead :P 19:11:28 <frosch123> andythenorth: draw windmills with infinite rotation 19:11:36 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:12:19 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:12:25 <andythenorth> which type of infinity? 19:12:33 <Alberth> pick one :) 19:12:38 <andythenorth> can I pick 0? 19:12:51 <andythenorth> for some definitions 0 is infinite 19:13:22 <Alberth> oh, happy to not use some definitions then :) 19:13:49 <andythenorth> 0 is for example, infinitely small 19:14:11 <Nat_aS> yes but zero rotations is no sprite at all 19:14:11 <Alberth> isn't -1 smaller? 19:14:13 <andythenorth> it is, for some definitions of 'measurement', unmeasurably small 19:14:25 <Nat_aS> and no -1 is a whole 1 away from 0 19:14:54 <Nat_aS> and because of the nature of numbers, it's an infinite distance from zero. 19:15:09 <andythenorth> on a cartesian plane, 0 is an infinitely small distance from origin 19:15:27 <Nat_aS> and 1 is an infinite distance from zero. 19:15:57 <andythenorth> only if you're applying zeno's paradox 19:16:12 * andythenorth ponders doing work instead 19:16:49 <Alberth> that's inifinitely more productive, probably 19:17:26 <Nat_aS> lol 19:20:29 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:51 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:35:23 <Rhamphoryncus> Huh, never seen a ship randomly get lost before 19:35:55 <Alberth> there's a first for everything :p 19:35:57 <Nat_aS> never? 19:36:06 <Nat_aS> that happlens like all the time 19:36:17 <Nat_aS> do you not play on maps with complex coastlines? 19:38:20 <andythenorth> it's easy to trap a ship behind a peninsula 19:38:38 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:40:02 <Nat_aS> or in a cove 19:43:35 <Rhamphoryncus> oskari89: I've been looking at real curves. I'd have to drug the devs to have any chance of acceptance though ;) 19:47:37 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:47:48 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:48:14 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-201-118.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:49:01 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 19:51:13 <Alberth> we should code them while drugged? Not sure you'd like the result :D 19:53:05 <Nat_aS> I think I remember a probably autocratically story of Email being invented while high. 19:54:46 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:05:53 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 20:22:25 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: naw, I'm gonna code it, it's just committing that needs to happen while high :) 20:23:07 <Alberth> :) 20:28:11 <Terkhen> cout << "Real curve" << endl; // You did not need to drug me. 20:35:52 *** Sidar [~kvirc@ip51cda68e.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 20:37:26 <Sidar> Hey guys, doing a school assignment on Design patterns. I picked OpenTTD as my source of code. I've found 6 patterns so far. I assumed a Flyweight pattern would also be there for visuals. Could someone help me understand how the visuals are rendered? 20:38:59 <Alberth> from the map, and newgrfs 20:39:39 <Alberth> viewport.cpp iirc 20:39:40 <__ln__> have you identified any anti-design patterns? 20:39:55 <Sidar> No need for anti-design patterns so I didnt look for it xD 20:40:16 <Alberth> I am not sure we need patterns either :) 20:40:54 <Sidar> Alberth: I looked at viewport.cpp but can't figure out how images are managed. I assume every object that needs to be drawn takes graphical data from one source? 20:41:06 <Alberth> haha :D 20:42:15 <Alberth> map has several types of tiles, each tile has its own set of bits to decide what to draw 20:42:37 <Alberth> objects have xy hash I think, never looked at it in detail 20:43:21 <Sidar> Yes but how are these images managed? I assume you don't literaly create a new instance of an image for every object. You simply draw it at a certain position right? 20:43:40 <Alberth> then the sprites are looked up in the newgrf through the sprite cache, where in general you draw a number of sprites as defined in the newgrf 20:43:40 <Sidar> I was hoping to find a flyweight pattern somewhere, but I really can't. 20:44:10 <Sidar> okai ill check newgrf 20:44:38 *** kaenkky_ [~kaenkky_@GYYYMMMCMXCIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:39 <Alberth> newgrf is quite literally everything you see 20:44:40 *** kaenkky [~kaenkky_@GYYYMMMCMXCIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 20:44:58 <Sidar> In which virtual map does it reside? 20:45:09 <Sidar> Ow nvm 20:45:43 <andythenorth> adobe flash might use flyweight pattern for instances of movieclips 20:45:44 <andythenorth> maybe 20:46:35 <Sidar> I know of several flyweight implementations. But for some reason OpenTTD overwhelms me 20:46:42 <andythenorth> hah 20:46:43 <andythenorth> :) 20:46:57 <Sidar> I figured most games use it anyways. Saves tons of memory 20:47:05 <Alberth> it's written before OO was invented :) 20:47:14 <Sidar> figures 20:47:21 <Alberth> s/'s/ was/ 20:47:43 <__ln__> Alberth: design patterns exist regardless of OO. 20:48:03 <Alberth> I guess you could see newgrf sprite references as flyweight stuff 20:48:06 <Sidar> that is true, and there are actually some visible patterns. 20:48:26 <Alberth> __ln__: that does not make them needed 20:48:42 <Sidar> Alberth: im looking at it right now...my C++ skillss....argh 20:49:17 <__ln__> Alberth: design patterns exist even if they were not conciously used by the developer. 20:49:33 <Alberth> Sidar: code is pretty dense and complicated, not sure how that is with other games 20:49:41 <Sidar> I wasn't trying to provoke a discussion guys =) sorry for that 20:50:03 <Alberth> __ln__: I am not arguing existence, I was arguing need for them :) 20:50:16 <Alberth> Sidar: no worries, it's on-topic here :) 20:52:33 <Sidar> So when an object is about to draw it calls a newgrf object? 20:54:01 <Alberth> don't know how that works in detail, but the newgrf spec has all sorts of complicated ways to state what sprites to actually draw, so that has to be done somewhere 20:54:49 <Sidar> Well do you know where the images/sprites are cached? 20:54:59 <Sidar> perhaps that will help me by far 20:55:36 <Alberth> In spritecache.cpp ?? :) 20:56:13 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:56:57 <Sidar> Ok so the spritecache holds the actual sprite 20:57:21 <Sidar> while the newgrf sorts out the drawing state 20:59:13 <frosch123> for every tile there are 9 bytes in the map array 20:59:42 <frosch123> one of them identifies the type of a tile which then identifies a set of function (like. virtual functions of a tile object) to do the stuff 20:59:47 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-58-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:59:50 <frosch123> one of them is for drawing the tile 20:59:53 <Wolf01> hi 21:00:18 <frosch123> it is up to the "tile class" to interpret/use the 9 bytes in the map as it fits 21:01:03 <frosch123> for drawing every tile just dumps the sprites into some container, which is then sorted for drawing order (we have no z buffer, but sprite sorting) and then drawn 21:02:13 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:02:41 <Sidar> Thanks for the help, however I need to know how these sprites are loaded and cached so that they can be reused without making a new instance for every object. 21:03:25 <Sidar> I have to create an uml diagram from it 21:03:52 <Sidar> ( if im being a pain just say so xD ) 21:03:56 <frosch123> they are put into some lru cache (is that it's name?) 21:04:09 <Sidar> There is a spritecache 21:04:13 <frosch123> there is a fixed size of sprite memory (the spritecache) and sprites are loaded from disk into it 21:04:35 <frosch123> if it is full, the entry which was not used for the longest time is removed 21:11:27 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 21:16:46 <Sidar> Gah. Can't see how this works. =[ 21:17:08 <michi_cc> Sidar: You won't find an OO object for the sprite stuff anywhere, but most visible entities store a SpriteID somehow (either indirectly in the map array or directly in the object, e.g. vehicles). The SpriteID is a reference into the sprite cache which stores the pixels to draw. 21:18:09 <Sidar> and then passed into the blitter to draw? 21:19:05 <michi_cc> With a bit of a stretch you could say most of the map uses a flyweight design pattern. A station tile for example contains a reference to a StationSpec, which contains data common to all station tiles of the same kind. 21:19:36 <Sidar> Thanks. Ill ook into these files 21:19:41 <Sidar> look* 21:20:32 <michi_cc> Drawing is: collect visible entities, put corresponding sprites into a list, sort list by drawing order, send to blitter. 21:21:41 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:21:52 <Alberth> ViewportDoDraw() looks like a main routine (lots of collecting, and at the end sorting & drawing) 21:22:04 <__ln__> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17530734 21:23:17 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:27:27 <Terkhen> good night 21:31:51 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 21:35:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:38:41 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 12.0/20120321033733]] 21:41:08 <frosch123> night 21:41:10 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fce93.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:18 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:53:36 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 21:58:12 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 21:58:53 *** cl8 [~cccc@host-92-3-247-120.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:06:24 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:06:30 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-58-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:11:05 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-105-235.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:11:25 <Sidar> Sorry for bothering you guys with this. But, I know there is a SpriteID, but what class gets the actual pixel data? 22:13:31 <Sidar> nvm, im just going to fake this uml XD 22:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the pixel data is in the sprite cache 22:18:59 <Sidar> I know that 22:19:01 <Sidar> But 22:19:36 <Sidar> Doesnt it just load the complete spritesheet/TextureAtlas? 22:19:58 <Sidar> or is it seperated into seperate sprites on load time? 22:23:30 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178220081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:24:49 <planetmaker> each sprite is separate with its ID. But all are loaded upon load time, if the cache is big enough 22:25:35 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:28:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't actually know the code, but i presume that upon game start, only the positions of the sprites are loaded. the actual pixel data is only loaded on the first draw (and then cached for future redraws) 22:29:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "position" means "which file and at what offset" 22:30:21 <Eddi|zuHause> which btw brings me back to an old suggestion: in the sprite-aligner, it should show the grf-local sprite id 22:32:33 <Sidar> Is there by any chance somewhere a State-Pattern implemented? Or something close to that? 22:33:27 *** Firartix [~artixds@12.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:36 <Eddi|zuHause> probably you should refer to the canonical documentation for that kind of question 22:36:12 <__ln__> or the United States constitution 22:41:47 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-201-118.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AB65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:59 <michi_cc> Sidar: If you want a class, then probably no. But the cursor action handling is doing it, just without classes (start at SetObjectToPlace in viewport.cpp). 22:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Sidar: due to the nature of OpenTTD as a reverse-engineered asm-to-c project, some of this stuff may be so old it doesn't fit into classes or patterns very well 22:58:16 <Sidar> Picked the wrong project then didnt I XD 23:06:32 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:06:38 <michi_cc> Most of the design pattern crowd seems to forget that there's more than just object oriented programming, and obviously OOP is always the best thing in the world (Java, I'm looking at you :) 23:08:43 <Eddi|zuHause> historically "design patterns" are not "how to do it" templates, but "how did people actually do this" surveys 23:09:14 <Eddi|zuHause> no theoretical computer scientist ever bothered with "design patterns" 23:09:51 <Sidar> It's just a school assignment, dont point at me. 23:10:40 <Sidar> Eddi|zuHause: a bold statement dont you think? I mean they are applied in tons of applications. 23:11:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Sidar: but applications are not written by theorists either 23:11:43 <Sidar> However lots of theorists actually do bother with design patterns. I mean how else are they thought up to begin with. 23:12:09 <zooks_> nightnight 23:12:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Sidar: that's what i am telling you. design patterns were thought up by practicians, and later formalized when it worked. 23:12:48 <Sidar> Design patterns are just abstract ideas, not actual implementations 23:13:17 <Sidar> almost 2 am 23:13:19 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the pattern wasn't there first 23:13:46 <Sidar> That doesn't mean a thing. Thats like saying the factory wasn't there first, so we should still do things by hand. 23:14:02 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-074-073.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 23:14:08 <Eddi|zuHause> where do you think i said that? 23:14:09 *** zooks_ [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:14:11 <Sidar> I mean design patterns are there to help with a problem. Its not there to be fancy 23:14:31 <Eddi|zuHause> besides, 90% of the "patterns" are "glue" that try to bring two existing implementations together 23:14:34 <Sidar> Well you say the pattern wasn't there first. What else are you implying? 23:14:42 <__ln__> no, design patterns are there to describe how smart people have solved some particular types of problems. 23:15:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that also means, you don't need 90% of the "patterns" when you design an application properly 23:18:18 *** DabuYu [DoubleYou@128.250.79.185] has joined #openttd 23:18:21 <Sidar> "need" is ambiguous. And "properly" as well. But I digress. Enough programming for todat 23:18:28 <Sidar> today* 23:20:24 <__ln__> using 90% of the design patterns in one application doesn't make it good. 23:20:43 <Sidar> Doesnt make sense either =P 23:21:57 <Sidar> G2G bye 23:21:59 *** Sidar [~kvirc@ip51cda68e.speed.planet.nl] has quit [] 23:33:01 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm with Eddi. Techniques -> patterns of code -> design patterns. It's not the other way around 23:33:09 <Rhamphoryncus> And techniques are very fluid 23:34:56 <Rhamphoryncus> Is a linked list a design pattern? It's just a linked list implementation 23:35:22 <Rhamphoryncus> "pattern" is merely a buzzword. A fad.