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Log for #openttd on 5th May 2012:
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00:07:16  *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:07:30  <michi_cc> Zuu: If he's using AIs, 1.0.4 might still be affected by some of the squirrel bugs regarding list sorting (e.g. FS#4830)
00:08:04  <jnx> Hazzard: that's because it's rather inefficient to fly >950
00:08:21  <Zuu> michi_cc: good point
00:08:31  <jnx> (in the real world)
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00:18:29  <Hazzard> ?
00:18:34  <Hazzard> Why would it be?
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00:19:38  <Guinness2702> Zuu: I make that about an hour now, and still no hang with 1.2 :) :) :)  Thanks for the suggestion
00:19:52  <Zuu> Great
00:20:23  <jnx> Hazzard: likely air resistance?
00:20:55  <jnx> Hazzard: why else would there be no supersonic flights? (Even the COncorde was decommissioned, though not for the reason of inefficiency arguably)
00:22:30  <Hazzard> There is still time
00:22:55  <Hazzard> The high speed planes are probably released to early
00:23:01  <Hazzard> but who knows what the future might have
00:34:47  <Hazzard> Does anyone know how to make it so that a vehicle won't carry 4x pax, 2x mail, and 2x goods?
00:36:15  <jnx> What kind of vehicle
00:38:27  <Guinness2702> Okay, quick question about 1.2; It doesn't seem to show help, when I right click on a tool, like 1.0.4 did.  Is there an option to turn this on?
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00:44:25  <Hazzard> jnx: RV
00:44:32  <Hazzard> is there a difference?
00:45:53  <jnx> Road Vehicle? Rail Vehicle?
00:46:35  <jnx> Most road vehicles only carry one type of goods (but what do I know...), so the question seems moot.
00:46:43  <jnx> In case of rail vehicles, "don't add a mail van?"
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00:53:20  <michi_cc> Guinness2702: Somewhere in Advanced settings -> Interface
00:53:55  <michi_cc> Tooltips are with mouse hover now by default.
01:03:41  <Hazzard> I mean the cargo_capacity parameter.
01:03:46  <Hazzard> I want to avoid "By default, passenger capacity is 4x, and mail/goods capacity 2x larger than capacity for other cargoes. The capacity set here is used for the default (i.e. first refittable) cargo. Use the cargo_capacity callback to avoid this effect"
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01:03:55  <Hazzard> I don't know about the last part
01:04:40  <Hazzard> callbacks and whatnot
01:06:09  <Hazzard> I tried making a switch but it says I cannot use a switch as a parameter
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01:12:46  <Hazzard> (I am making a road vehicle, sorry if that wasn't clear)
01:18:45  <michi_cc> Hazzard: There's a misc_flag (http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/RoadVehicles#Miscellaneous_flags_.281C.29) for that, but it's not documented on the NML specs wiki, so I don't know if NML aready supports that specific flag.
01:20:00  <michi_cc> And for callbacks: http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial/Callback_and_switch
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06:00:08  <planetmaker> moin
06:00:21  * andythenorth considers downloading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropolis_(video_game)
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07:30:00  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
07:30:06  <Alberth> moin andy
07:30:32  <Alberth> working towards working on FIRS? :)
07:30:50  <andythenorth> working on work
07:31:04  <andythenorth> re-acquainting myself with javascript
07:31:26  <Alberth> does not sound like fun :(
07:32:16  <andythenorth> tis ok
07:32:17  <andythenorth> ish
07:32:48  <Rhamphoryncus> javascript is only about half a PHP, so it's survivable if you have to
07:33:44  <andythenorth> it comes with all the same problems
07:33:50  <andythenorth> 'plz send me the codez'
07:34:58  <Rhamphoryncus> I was thinking the language itself
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08:15:31  <Hazzard> A higher tractive_effort_coefficient: = higher acceleration, right?
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08:31:20  <krinn> hi
08:31:34  <Hazzard> Hi
08:32:10  <krinn> openttd 1.2 display only signs of my own company now, that's great, but is there a way to get back old behavior (display all signs in the sign panel) ?
08:32:51  <Eddi|zuHause> try advanced settings
08:33:43  <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, was the first thing i've look at, i miss it or it's not there
08:34:44  <Hazzard> Possibly adv settings>display options>show company liveries
08:35:05  <krinn> set to all companies already
08:35:15  <Hazzard> (whoops, I missed >interface>
08:36:04  <krinn> it's ok it's where i have look too: you speak about "loading" and "liveries" for companies, both set to all
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08:38:04  <krinn> i was more looking for a console switch as i wouldn't be surprise no one add this as option in the GUI, the new feature is far better, except for my special case
08:42:22  <CornishPasty> krinn: I'm pretty sure there is a way to do it, but I don't have OpenTTD installed on this machine atm :(
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08:46:18  <Hazzard> I can't get this turck to accelerate at a reasonable speed >:(
08:46:41  <krinn> release handbrake?
08:47:23  <Hazzard> Is there a parameter for that?
08:47:35  <Hazzard> mustof missed it :P
08:47:36  <Alberth> RV acceleration model?
08:51:19  <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=59697 <- poll: bot or not? :)
08:51:55  <krinn> <even though i am a girl> vote yes
08:52:06  <Hazzard> Alberth: Realistic, but with original it goes even slower
08:52:41  <Alberth> ok, so you did not miss that one :)
08:53:24  <Hazzard> This http://wiki.openttd.org/Tractive_Effort says the high the tractive effort the better
08:53:26  <Alberth> In TTDPatch, first post? /me votes for bot
08:53:56  <Hazzard> This newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Road_vehicle_properties says the opposite
08:53:58  <Alberth> Hazzard: accelerate != high max speed
08:54:27  <Hazzard> You know what I mean.
08:54:27  <Alberth> high TE means it can pull heavy loads
08:54:50  <Hazzard> whoops, the first link says lower the better
08:54:51  <Hazzard> meh
08:54:58  <Hazzard> and what about weight
08:55:28  <Alberth> lighter is better, but light engines cannot pull heavy weights :)
08:55:38  <Hazzard> maybe it has something to do with air resistance
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09:07:25  <Hazzard> The max speed is 241 km/hr, maybe that is too unreasonable for a truck...
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09:10:00  <Terkhen> good morning
09:10:15  <Zuu> morning Terkhen
09:10:15  <Terkhen> Hazzard: play with the air drag property
09:10:34  <Terkhen> by default the air drag value is based on (IIRC) max speed
09:10:42  <Terkhen> but you can change it or disable air drag completely if you want to
09:10:45  <krinn> hi Terkhen Zuu
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09:11:06  <Zuu> hello krinn
09:11:19  <Terkhen> the max speed limit without setting it was (IIRC) roughly near 240 so that's probably your issue
09:11:30  <Hazzard> Yeah
09:11:36  <Hazzard> I only once saw it reach 240
09:13:39  <Hazzard> Ok, I gtg now
09:14:49  <Terkhen> see you
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09:23:07  <Wolf01> hello
09:23:10  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
09:23:44  <Alberth> moin
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09:52:52  <krinn> Zuu ?
09:53:54  <krinn> i've update the tests scripts, now they are working
09:54:48  <krinn> the lib mostly work, still need to work on relaying messages for aiaiproto and strengh commands usage some more
09:55:39  <Zuu> So the ai-ai protocol is still ment to be included?
09:56:44  <Zuu> How do you see on having a default command on the GS-side that return a list of all command sets supported by the GS?
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10:00:02  <krinn> yeah the ai-ai need to be made
10:00:27  <krinn> for the 2nd: i return the list of command handle by the GS while registring with the client
10:00:38  <Zuu> I though we decided to drop it, but if you want to do it, sure go ahead :-)
10:01:10  <krinn> well, it's not made yet, and if the GS config is set to reject it, none can use it
10:02:14  <krinn> as client record their command by creation : says "Test" command is the 3rd command, then client "Test" command = 2
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10:02:54  <krinn> when registering with the server, the server tell "Test" is command = 6 (the 5rd command handle by the server) and the client change its command "Test" to = 6
10:03:39  <krinn> so all clients must comply to server command numbering, and doing so, grab also commands the server is using (hence your list of server commands)
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10:03:56  <Zuu> I wondered how you handeled that when I started to try to use it, as by my memory we used integers for command IDs.
10:04:12  <Zuu> Eg. not transmitting the full name of the command.
10:04:49  <krinn> Zuu, yep, that's why we need to match client_command_id with server_command_id, else client might send 2 as command "Test" while server is handling 2 - "anotherCmd" and 5 - "Test"
10:04:59  <Zuu> So, a GS should setup the SCP part within the startup ticks.
10:05:11  <krinn> it does already
10:05:13  <Zuu> To ensure that it has registred all commands before a client tries to hand shake.
10:05:36  <krinn> the register part for server send the commands and reassign, the client part grab them and apply the new value
10:06:24  <krinn> Zuu, and we don't need to setup at first tick : as long as registration isn't made, server ignore all commands :)
10:06:31  <Zuu> What if badly coded GS A does lots of setup tasks so that it will only come to the point of setting up SCP 1 gameyear into the game. What if AI X tries to communicate with A before it is set up? Will that just work because the GS will not scan signs until it has been setup?
10:07:10  <krinn> if AI isn't registred, all its commands are buffered : once registration is done, the buffer is clean and commands sent
10:07:33  <Zuu> Ok
10:07:49  <Zuu> So there shouldn't be a problem if the GS is slower than the AI to startup.
10:08:05  <krinn> yep, the AI have 2 ways to handle that
10:08:16  <krinn> just send the commands : and they will get auto-add to the buffer
10:08:52  <krinn> or check CanSpeakWith() that will return true if the command will be done without buffering
10:09:00  <Zuu> if the SCP code runs, otherwise they will just sit around as signs on the map. Using the map as a buffer :-)
10:09:36  <krinn> yep, but just 1 sign, as the buffered commands aren't execute at all, but kept until they could
10:09:48  <krinn> only the reg query will be there
10:09:57  <Zuu> ok
10:10:49  <krinn> and none will see that 1 sign except the player :)
10:11:08  <Zuu> :-)
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10:11:12  <krinn> i didn't find a way to see all signs like openttd < 1.2 was doing (that would have help a lot)
10:11:35  <Zuu> seeing as player or seeing as script?
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10:11:53  <krinn> even the GS cannot see them without switching to the company
10:11:55  <Zuu> As player, make sure you have the option 'show competitor signs' active in the settings menu.
10:12:30  <krinn> show competitor signs <--- that's what i need, where can i find it ?
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10:12:53  <Zuu> Same place as turning on/off details.
10:12:57  <Zuu> and animation
10:13:13  <Zuu> and advanced settings etc.
10:13:19  <Zuu> from within a running game.
10:13:56  <Zuu> I think that is design feature of GS. You tell it to act as a given company. You see what the company sees, and you operate on its porperty.
10:14:25  <Zuu> Thoguh, yes one could argue that at diety level you should have access to everything, but having it as its now, you don't modify player things by mistake.
10:15:49  <krinn> made us loop thru all companies to check signs, but i have loop thru only valid companies to lower the loop
10:17:04  <Zuu> Yes, thats typically what a GS have to do, loop over companies.
10:17:36  <krinn> made it funny to see the GSSign.GetOwner
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10:18:25  <krinn> a bit non-sens this function if you're not seeing signs except been the company :)
10:18:41  <Zuu> I believe the sign IDs are unique through the game, so if you store a ID you could later lookup the owner, but yea its a bit redundant as it is now.
10:19:33  <krinn> the test are now update to works, you can check them for real usage
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10:20:35  <krinn> we should doc the API, we have some configuration options and some functions to use (QueryCompany, QueryServer, Answer...)
10:20:56  <krinn> the code also need comments for functions...
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10:21:39  <drac_boy> hi
10:22:02  <Zuu> I'll continue my tests now, given that you have fixed the issue that I ran into. But I understand if not evrything is finished and I have too lookup how things work. :-)
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10:22:27  <krinn> hi drac_boy
10:23:00  <krinn> Zuu, and all GS handling SCP will need to doc their API too :)
10:23:22  <drac_boy> hi krinn
10:23:31  <Zuu> Yep, and we need to either ditch or update the wiki page. At least I added a note that it's not up to date. :-)
10:23:58  <Zuu> But its probably a good place to some minimal examples.
10:24:20  <krinn> the protocol.txt is update, maybe not in an easy understandable form
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10:26:21  <drac_boy> got a little computer question tho...can you plug a usb3 drive into usb1.1/2 computer just like that or not really?
10:26:55  <krinn> they should have rename it if not
10:27:32  <krinn> so yes
10:27:42  <drac_boy> hm ok thanks
10:28:06  <drac_boy> still wonder about the protocol overhead but guess thats something better off found somewhere else heh
10:30:45  <Zuu> A 3.0 device would need to fallback to the protocol of 1.1/2, unless USB has a special future mode embeded into 1.1 and 2.0 that adds extra overhead when using with future devices.
10:31:23  <drac_boy> zuu hmm that sounds more reasonable now, thanks
10:38:17  <Zuu> I wonder, as SCPLib is singleton sort of class, would it be feasible to make it so that you don't need to instanciate the SCPLib class to use it? I see that you need to store some values, so behind the sceens there need to be an instance for storage. Also I think it is better to make the callbacks take the class instance as arg too rather than imposing users to various tricks to access the "this" pointer in a callback.
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10:39:29  <krinn> well, we could remove the instance part at cost of static variable
10:40:01  <krinn> anything use in it must be set static or we will lost them
10:40:38  <Zuu> yes, but they could be named such that there is no real risk of conflicting with AI/GS vars.
10:41:01  <krinn> but maybe, we could record the context when the command is added, and send back the context when the function callback is trigger
10:44:04  <Zuu> Hmm, I thoguh that SuperLib.Helper.CallFunction supported passing a class instance along with the function pointer to class a member function of an instance, but apparanetly not. However, I think I have seen a implementation of a class Valuate function that has this functionality.
10:46:59  <krinn> we could just pass the class function instance already as callback, if not the this.function() is assume
10:50:30  <krinn> AddCommand("SCPRegister", "SCPBaseSet", _SCPLib_Client.RegisterClient);  is doing that per example
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10:58:49  <krinn> you wish the callback function pass the original "this" as arguement?
10:59:52  <Zuu> I diged up some old code that I don't know if it work anymore, but that did allow passing a function pointer and the instance of a class that the function belongs in: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1386/
11:00:34  <Zuu> If that is not possible anymore due to restrictions in acall, then it would be possible to just pass an arg called _this or something along with message.
11:01:11  <krinn> a func_triggered(context, message) so user could thatclass::func_triggered(context, message) and have a chance to use context.var_in_its_own_class ?
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11:01:27  <Zuu> yes
11:01:38  <krinn> i knew you would say yes :)
11:01:55  <Zuu> :-)
11:02:07  <Zuu> Do I put too high demands on you? :-)
11:02:45  <krinn> nope, but this will be done later, i need to get ready for work
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11:03:01  <Zuu> sure
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11:07:19  <krinn> ok, i wrote down, passing this to callback and see possibilties of static anything to remove scplib instance
11:13:42  <krinn> on my way to bath, see u
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11:17:48  <drac_boy> so what else you doing zuu? :p
11:17:51  <drac_boy> heh heh
11:18:04  <Zuu> drac_boy: what else except what?
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11:21:12  <drac_boy> scp?
11:21:58  <Zuu> script communication protocol
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11:23:44  <Zuu> drac_boy: http://wiki.openttd.org/User:Zuu <--- list of contributions
11:23:54  <drac_boy> zuu that wasn't the question silly :)
11:25:42  <drac_boy> hm the transportgoals one seem interesting...imagine that could cause very massive trains in ukrs2 tho
11:27:09  <Zuu> If played to the extreeme yes :-)
11:27:49  <Zuu> It uses the average over all vehicles you have, so it penaltize usage of trucks and other low capacity vehicles.
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11:30:54  <drac_boy> hmm...still penaltize short trains or not so much?
11:31:43  <Zuu> As all vehicles contribute to the mean, its in theory to win with just one vehicle.
11:32:13  <Zuu> One extension would be to use at least 10 as the divisor even if there is less than 10 vehicles.
11:32:27  <Zuu> eg. sum / max(10, num)
11:32:44  <drac_boy> hmm ok then
11:35:21  <Zuu> Outside of OpetTTD I've also written a traffic intersection simulation program (Junctioneer). It's not as fancy graphics wise as OpenTTD and in many senses more limited, but takes a different focus.
11:37:31  <drac_boy> real intersections rather than these silly games that requires you to change lights between red and green without causing too long lineups?
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11:37:53  <Zuu> yep
11:38:02  <Zuu> and it features vehicle collisions :-)
11:38:35  <drac_boy> heh does it randomize idiot drivers too? :P
11:38:44  <Zuu> But it has long way to go to be anywhere near the status of professional software as eg. Vissim or Aimsun.
11:39:22  <Zuu> It randomize some charasteristics of the drivers.
11:39:38  <Zuu> Eg. max speed and acceleration.
11:40:47  <drac_boy> zuu I assume it would have specific lane lights too?
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11:41:31  <Zuu> Yes, you can even control the individual exits of one lane separtely if you like to. Eg. to have pre-green for right turn.
11:41:52  <Zuu> One thing that is missing however, is roads with more than one lane that allow free lane changes.
11:42:04  <drac_boy> zuu ok because these are the various things I could think of....
11:43:42  <Zuu> The three-way intersection example bundled with it demonstrates the signalization features quite well I think. At least those that are present in 0.2 :-)
11:44:50  <drac_boy> no turn on red ... directional greens (you know, arrow lamps) ... white slit (probably different in other countries but that means 'only bus can go now' here) ... one of any three colours flashing meaning either its off-rush period and to be treated as 4-way stop OR the system broke down into fail-fault mode ... etc
11:46:22  <Hazzard> I need to know something that probably seems pretty simple
11:46:40  <Hazzard> How do you increase the acceleration of a high speed road vehicle?
11:48:52  <michi_cc> You reduce air drag and increase power. TE is mostly irrelevant at higer speeds.
11:54:27  <drac_boy> zuu these made sense btw?
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11:57:20  <Zuu> directional greens are sort of already supported. PuT (public transport) signals aren't supported yet, and currently you can't put transport mode restrictions on links, but the changes needed in the pathfinder wouldn't be very hard to do.
11:59:07  <drac_boy> zuu yeah because what I recall from the few sights of them is that these PuT otherwise avoids costly bridge/tunnel at busy points where eg the bus turns left onto a new road in far right lane to then drop off people...then it leaves to soon hit a intersection where it has to turn left...but its in the right lane of all the things
11:59:26  <drac_boy> hence the signal to let bus start ahead of any of the cars to make its wide left turn
12:00:06  <drac_boy> bit clever idea isn't it?
12:00:55  <Hazzard> Thanks michi_cc
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12:01:26  <Hazzard> Since TE is less important, does that mean Weight is also less important?
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12:25:49  <HackaLittleBit> frosch123: hello frosch, can I talk a about fs5147
12:26:50  <HackaLittleBit> would it not be a idea to create small svn repository to show changes?
12:27:39  <HackaLittleBit> and keep track of suggestions.
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12:28:38  <HackaLittleBit> I have basic document structure ready, but still many changes to be done.
12:29:04  <frosch123> hmm, isn't there already some project on coop for that?
12:29:20  <HackaLittleBit> give link pls.
12:29:41  <frosch123> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttd-gui <- found it
12:31:26  <frosch123> alternatively we could use the wiki
12:31:50  <frosch123> i am not sure how much of a history tracking is needed
12:32:06  <frosch123> so, a hg repo might be too much, compared to a wiki site with some images
12:37:12  <HackaLittleBit> This weekend I'll upload the document. Most of the work was getting the structure correct. Proposed changes are not all implemented. The suggestion from albert to put loading height map in the world generator makes a lot of sense. The idea is to make changes in foto first
12:37:13  <frosch123> planetmaker: are you available for discussion? :)
12:38:03  <HackaLittleBit> only when layout is correct do programming
12:42:41  <HackaLittleBit> frosch123: If you wan't I can upload now in order to have a quick look.
12:44:14  <frosch123> no idea, what do you need? a wiki site? just some storage site for documents? or a repository?
12:44:45  <HackaLittleBit> svn repository with commit rights.
12:44:47  <frosch123> the coop redmine has kind of all of those three
12:44:59  <frosch123> coop uses hg, not svn :)
12:45:27  <HackaLittleBit> I'll check it out and come back to you :)
12:45:48  <HackaLittleBit> duno hg
12:46:13  <frosch123> are you registered on the devzone?
12:46:19  <HackaLittleBit> no
12:46:22  <frosch123> what shall the project be named?
12:46:50  <HackaLittleBit> GUI
12:47:11  <Zuu> Get Unified Interface?
12:47:23  * drac_boy pokes zuu
12:48:02  <frosch123> well, i assume you want to upload the html preview trickery. so, something like "gui design cases"? as subproject of the "openttd-gui" project?
12:48:22  <HackaLittleBit> fine with me.
12:48:35  <frosch123> just "gui" sounds weird as subproject of "openttd-gui" :)
12:49:14  <HackaLittleBit> hold on pls
12:50:00  <HackaLittleBit> 'gui design tracking'
12:50:10  <HackaLittleBit> is that better?
12:50:40  <frosch123> i think we can also change that later on, so just "gui design" for now
12:50:50  <HackaLittleBit> ok
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12:53:00  <frosch123> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttd-gui-design <- if you register, i can add you as manager
12:53:11  <HackaLittleBit> frosch123: I'll upload doc to FS now juast to have a look.
12:53:12  <frosch123> we have to wait for some admin though to make it a subproject of openttd-gui
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12:56:59  <Ammler> frosch123: done
12:57:05  <frosch123> thanks :)
12:57:27  <HackaLittleBit> Thnks Ammler
12:58:05  <HackaLittleBit> frosch123: Uploaded doc!
12:59:06  <frosch123> wrong task though :)
13:00:12  <HackaLittleBit> Hu how many rights did you give me?
13:00:47  <frosch123> what?
13:01:05  <HackaLittleBit> pls delete in fs3826
13:01:33  <HackaLittleBit> indeed wrong task.
13:03:36  <HackaLittleBit> ok now it's correct task.5147
13:07:04  <frosch123> are those all windows? :o
13:07:58  <frosch123> all settings windows i guess
13:09:11  <HackaLittleBit> not yet all , I think some still missing.
13:09:34  <frosch123> i guess settings are most interesting
13:09:41  <Zuu> I read some changes that doesn't seem to be reflected in the image.
13:11:01  <HackaLittleBit> Zuu: I have been busy with document structure there may be inconsistencies.
13:11:13  <HackaLittleBit> that is reason for svn
13:11:34  <Zuu> I understand its a work in progress.
13:11:42  <HackaLittleBit> I am loosing track of changes
13:11:45  <HackaLittleBit> yep
13:12:12  <HackaLittleBit> just in the beginning
13:15:29  <planetmaker> hm, sorry, I'm here now. What's up?
13:15:44  <frosch123> planetmaker: all fine :)
13:16:07  <frosch123> planetmaker: we made a new subproject to one of your existing ones ttp://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttd-gui-design
13:16:14  <frosch123> to keep track of fs#5147 thingies
13:16:32  <planetmaker> ah, ok. That's nice
13:17:42  * andythenorth may be winning at internets
13:17:45  <andythenorth> mostly css
13:17:51  <planetmaker> in principle you can have also svn or git repo type on devzone. But hg repos are the default which need no admin intervention
13:17:51  <andythenorth> no FIRS release this weekend :P
13:18:11  <planetmaker> HackaLittleBit: svn is a bad vcs though, if you want to supply patches
13:18:28  <planetmaker> patch queues that is
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13:18:45  <frosch123> svn is more than half as old as cvs :p
13:19:02  <planetmaker> :-P
13:19:11  <planetmaker> and hg half as old as svn?
13:19:28  <HackaLittleBit> I have tortoisesvn installed here
13:19:48  <frosch123> planetmaker: yes, hg is more than half as old as svn
13:19:56  <planetmaker> then you'll like tortoiseHG, HackaLittleBit ;-)
13:20:08  <frosch123> and more than a quarter as old as cvs, but not yet a third
13:20:27  <HackaLittleBit> won't that mess up my installation?
13:21:11  <HackaLittleBit> I mean can the two live side by side?
13:22:15  <NGC3982> im nowhere.
13:22:24  <NGC3982> rural sweden is so odd..
13:23:24  <HackaLittleBit> andythenorth: mostly css, still IE has problems swallowing.
13:24:08  <HackaLittleBit> was tested in opera chrome FF ok.
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13:24:28  <HackaLittleBit> IE does not like base64
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13:35:00  <andythenorth> is the gui being fixed?  will I like it? :o
13:36:30  <frosch123> andythenorth: we are planning to filter grfs on starting with "f" by default
13:36:45  <frosch123> s/grfs on/on grfs/
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13:39:20  <HackaLittleBits> I have to go, if you have game pls send pm. regards
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13:42:50  <andythenorth> just filter out all grfs tagged 'andythenorth'
13:42:57  <andythenorth> makes my life much simpler
13:43:13  <frosch123> four letter grfs might also be an idea
13:46:27  <andythenorth> CHIPS
13:46:32  <andythenorth> range 4:5
13:46:50  <andythenorth> how about just rm * when filtering?
13:47:01  * andythenorth is actually pretty happy with grf making right now
13:47:05  <andythenorth> FIRS is less stuck
13:47:21  <andythenorth> and the pony count is good
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14:05:18  <BSB> Hello! When will version for Ubuntu 12.04?
14:06:59  <Alberth> we don't make versions for ubuntu
14:07:12  <Alberth> you have to ask the ubuntu developers/packages
14:07:16  <Alberth> *packagers
14:08:09  <BSB> Yes, packages
14:08:23  <BSB> *packagers :)
14:08:25  <Alberth> Hmm, sorry, we do seem to make packages for ubuntu
14:08:46  <Alberth> http://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable   lists a few
14:09:27  <BSB> Yes, but this version gives an error when installing
14:10:09  <Alberth> the generic version should work, I think
14:10:33  <Alberth> select 'openttd-1.2.0-any'
14:11:12  <Alberth> then you can also pick  Linux Generic Binaries
14:11:41  <BSB> Thanks, I'll try
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16:57:08  <Nat_aS> morning
17:10:02  *** Matulla [~chatzilla@95-89-236-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd
17:11:00  <Matulla> hi all is there a tutorial on how about to handel best  city growings on a long running game
17:11:37  <Matulla> for instence station have good mood and bad mood  also citys how to handle that
17:18:00  <Alberth> there is a game mechanics wiki page, and a town growth wiki page, but we don't have a tutorial yet
17:18:05  <Alberth> why don't you make one?
17:18:47  <Matulla> my english is bad and if i did know it how to handle  i woudt
17:18:48  * Alberth does not understand the obsession with town growth
17:19:37  <Alberth> Matulla: people that know are in a bad position to write a tutorial, as they don't know what needs to be learned
17:20:22  <Alberth> Matulla: and bad english is not a real problem; use a spell checker, and otherwise, people will fix mistakes
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17:30:20  <Matulla> i will look what to do
17:30:42  <Alberth> ok, thanks
17:30:50  <Matulla> http://wiki.openttd.org/Peter1138/Towngrowth_Challenge
17:31:29  <Alberth> 2 years old :)
17:32:02  <Matulla> is theresomthing where i can follow the increase og this requierd points
17:32:31  <Alberth> lots of the things mentioned there can be implemented in NewGRFs and in Game scripts
17:32:58  <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Town_growth  ?
17:38:03  <Matulla> road dead ends -> no suitable building site this has to be removed  as from 0.6 but is not done yet
17:38:21  <Matulla> so the town grow algorythem does not find enoph sides
17:39:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24199 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt czech.txt hungarian.txt):
17:39:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:39:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 4 changes by arnau
17:39:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 1 changes by Paragulis
17:39:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 10 changes by IPG
17:40:51  <Matulla> Alberth:  thats what im searching for -> http://wiki.openttd.org/Talk:Town#Clarification_of_the_town_growth_mechanics_in_practice.21
17:41:57  <Alberth> Nobody moved it to the right spot in the wiki yet :(
17:42:54  <Alberth> If you want a better wiki, you have to do that yourself, I am afraid
17:43:44  <Matulla> Towns with 2x2 and 3x3 grid layout are the best WHAT DOES this mean 2x2  road 2empty road in Xy
17:44:54  <Alberth> 2x2?  that means square blocks, with road, two tiles houses, road, 2 tiles houses, etc
17:45:14  <Alberth> wiki needs an image, I think, can you make one?
17:45:28  <Matulla> yes
17:45:51  <Matulla> do i need to sighn in for a wiki change ?
17:46:09  <Matulla> or everyboady alowed
17:46:11  <Alberth> it is prefered, but not required
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18:12:53  <Matulla> Alberth:  no permission
18:13:04  <Matulla> shit 10min for nothing O.O
18:13:21  <Matulla> you need to lock in for posting this and upload a picture
18:13:38  <Alberth> :(
18:13:44  <Alberth> sorry, did not know that
18:14:00  <Matulla> no problem i will keep up to this
18:16:07  <Matulla> can you add the pictures ?
18:16:33  <Matulla> http://wiki.openttd.org/Towns#Town_Growth
18:17:45  <Alberth> you have pictures ready?
18:18:28  <Matulla> http://foengarage.de/Town-2x2.png
18:18:38  <Matulla> http://foengarage.de/Town-3x3.png
18:20:36  <Matulla> this brings up another question 3x3 one in the middle is free ?
18:21:03  <Matulla> station without any use
18:21:10  <Alberth> not always, see eg the footbal stadium in your image
18:21:22  <Alberth> there are also 2x1 houses
18:21:41  <Matulla> ah
18:21:48  <Matulla> Bank ofcause
18:22:45  <Alberth> that's technically an industry :)
18:22:48  <Matulla> Done Thanks
18:22:49  <Alberth> donw
18:22:52  <Alberth> *done
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18:23:57  <Matulla> the edit has to be removed it wars generadet by default
18:24:45  <Matulla> oh i see this has to be done in every language
18:25:20  <Matulla> so mutch more todo
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19:19:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24200 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Fix [FS#5149]: Invalidate build vehicle windows every month, in case they need resorting due to changed reliabilities.
19:20:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24201 /trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#5170]: Mark group list dirty when setting/clearing autoreplace for an engine type.
19:21:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24202 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Change: Make the size of the details in the autoreplace GUI match more the size of the details in the purchase list.
19:21:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24203 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix: Make the engine name not overdraw the engine count in the autoreplace GUI.
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19:27:45  <krinn> hi
19:28:06  <krinn> Zuu_
19:28:24  <Zuu_> Hello krinn
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19:31:08  <__ln__> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/13/AR2008031304353.html
19:31:22  <krinn> glad you're here, i think i know why you get invalid header
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21:24:31  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:31:08  <Terkhen> good night
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22:08:34  <frosch123> night
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23:20:13  <Hazzard> Hello
23:25:13  <krinn> night all
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