Config
Log for #openttd on 8th May 2012:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
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02:04:19  <nicfer> hi everyone
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02:38:43  <jnxa> What are the things that are counted towards "Other" in the Finances window? I have no HQ.
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04:55:26  <planetmaker> jnxa: you always pay 300 / month as 'general administrative expense'
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07:27:57  <dihedral> greetings :-)
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07:40:20  <Nat_aS> hi
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09:10:21  <Hazzard> Hi
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09:13:05  <hackalittlebit> planetmaker: what time is frosch123 around normally?
09:13:42  <hackalittlebit> need to discuss flat maps
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09:17:23  <planetmaker> evening hours
09:17:33  <hackalittlebit> tnks
09:17:48  <planetmaker> but... laying out ideas etc in the forum usually is a good idea.
09:18:01  <hackalittlebit> ok
09:18:21  <planetmaker> it's then something one base a discussion on. And... more eyes = more ideas = better result
09:18:50  <hackalittlebit> If you have heightmap with same color it will give you flat map
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09:18:58  <planetmaker> quite so
09:19:04  <hackalittlebit> Is  that legal?
09:19:19  <hackalittlebit> I mean to start game?
09:19:42  <planetmaker> I'm sure you don't mean legal :-) But what's wrong with a flat map?
09:20:12  <hackalittlebit> well it would make construction very easy
09:20:18  <planetmaker> so?
09:20:35  <planetmaker> if you define "I want flat map", the result "flat map" is desired
09:20:46  <hackalittlebit> for me fine, but is this not cheating in a ay
09:20:52  <planetmaker> if you define "mountainous map" via a non-uniform heightmap, a mountainous map is desired
09:21:25  <planetmaker> It's not cheating. It's defining easy starting conditions
09:21:39  <hackalittlebit> hold on I'll need some testing
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09:27:16  <hackalittlebits> panetmaker: options for Terrain Type. Very flat, flat, hilly, Mountainous
09:27:38  <hackalittlebits> very flat still gives some height difference
09:28:03  <hackalittlebits> what about option extra
09:28:12  <hackalittlebits> like pancake
09:28:28  <hackalittlebits> to get totally flat terrain
09:29:43  <hackalittlebits> or do 'very flat' and no height diff
09:30:37  <Eddi|zuHause> hackalittlebits: what difference does it make?
09:30:38  <hackalittlebits> it is allowed when loading height map or scenario editor
09:30:57  <hackalittlebits> consistency
09:31:23  <Eddi|zuHause> we seriously have more pressing problems...
09:31:56  <hackalittlebits> when you are able to make it in scenario editor and loading height map it should be allowen when just making new game
09:32:10  <hackalittlebits> ok
09:32:22  <Eddi|zuHause> why do we need 3 ways to do the same thing, then?
09:33:27  <hackalittlebits> ok eddy not realy important I know, thanks forget it.
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09:56:10  <andythenorth> evenings
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09:58:39  <Hazzard> Hello
09:58:43  <Hazzard> oh
09:58:49  <Hazzard> nevermind
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10:09:41  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, it would make sense to offer that for 'new game'. But indeed that's a problem I didn't consider to be one
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10:34:14  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: just put a "flat land" heightmap on bananas?
10:34:32  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, no need really
10:34:44  <planetmaker> The SE generates it by default
10:36:12  <Eddi|zuHause> SE needs a way to select which of the usual map generation processes (towns, industries, rivers) should be run after creating/modifying the landscape
10:36:31  <Eddi|zuHause> (trees)
10:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> "opening of berlin airport delayed" ... who'd've thunk?
10:38:10  <planetmaker> sunk? thought? shrunk? :-P
10:39:49  <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.dict.cc/englisch-deutsch/Who'd+have+thunk+it.html <- it's in the dictionary, it must be correct :)
10:41:36  <planetmaker> like "it's in the internet, thus it exists"? :-) Interesting, though
10:46:12  <Hazzard> Hmm..thats interesting. I think it is an abreviation of "thought of"
10:47:05  <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thunk
10:48:19  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a more or less deliberate misuse of grammar
10:48:54  <Hazzard> It still makes more sence when you replace thunk with 'thought of' instead of 'thought'
10:49:01  <Hazzard> I have heard it quite a bit though
10:52:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Hazzard: the "of" doesn't make any sense...
10:52:47  <Hazzard> I guess it depends how you use it
10:54:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Hazzard: anyway, simply leaving out words doesn't make it an abbreviation
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12:18:38  <V453000> hi, what was the command to kill an AI company on the server please?
12:19:13  <V453000> oh got it
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12:48:11  <Ammler> it's not "oh got it"
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13:12:37  <LESTAT> hola
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13:17:07  <LESTAT> hello
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13:17:15  <planetmaker> yes... hello
13:17:19  <planetmaker> tsk
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13:17:34  <lestat> hello
13:17:34  <planetmaker> @topic get -3
13:17:34  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
13:17:39  <planetmaker> ^^ lestat  :-)
13:18:04  <planetmaker> but welcome :-)
13:18:08  <lestat> anyone can help me?
13:18:18  <planetmaker> ...
13:18:37  <planetmaker> not yet
13:18:52  <planetmaker> no one knows more than that you have an unspecified problem.
13:19:14  <lestat> There is a new chart that allows all types of trains on the same rail that if the speed limit 31kh
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13:19:43  <planetmaker> you can set a speed limits in the train's order window
13:19:53  <lestat> I can not remember the name, anyone knows?
13:20:36  <planetmaker> if I haven't answered your question, I don't know what you ask :-)
13:22:16  <lestat> sorry I'm using the google translator and alo better lost in the translation
13:22:27  <lestat> nadie habla algo de español?
13:22:48  <planetmaker> If you're asking for a railtype which all train vehicles drive on: That NewGRF is called "universal rail" or similar
13:23:05  <lestat> yes universa rail
13:23:23  <planetmaker> it's available from in-game online content
13:24:04  <planetmaker> but of course it'll only be available, if you start a new game and selected it in the NewGRF settings before generating the map
13:24:39  <planetmaker> thus, you cannot add it to an existing game
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13:39:23  <lestat> attempts to enter the server to see if they can get new players
13:39:38  <lestat> http://www.openttd.org/en/server/58335
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13:49:48  <lestat> hi
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13:57:36  <dihedral> lestat, all other spanish servers are "YES_AIR"?
13:58:15  <Hazzard> I have discovered a tiny insignificant bug that no one cares about in the titlegame of 1.2
13:58:28  <dihedral> \o/
13:58:35  <dihedral> Hazzard, what is it?
13:59:00  <Hazzard> When the short diesel livestock/grain train crosses the yellow suspension bridge, the trees just after the bridge momentarily disapear
13:59:09  <Hazzard> as the train goes by
13:59:44  <Hazzard> It may vary which trains cause it
13:59:50  <dihedral> that'll make someone happy to hear about
13:59:59  <Hazzard> but for some it doesn't happen
14:00:17  <Hazzard> lol
14:00:24  <Hazzard> just saw an airplane crash in the titlegame
14:01:56  <Hazzard> An empty diesel iron or maybe wood train also seems to cause it
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14:03:04  <Hazzard> The double-headed diesel train that comes after the ultra long diesal coal train
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14:03:14  <Hazzard> and the livestock train that comes after that one
14:03:20  <lestat> please try to enter the server to see if you can
14:03:21  <Hazzard> Maybe it is random
14:03:29  <lestat> http://www.openttd.org/en/server/58335
14:05:39  <Hazzard> lestat: Nope, it has some really old GRFs that appear to not be avaliable through the online content
14:06:01  <Hazzard> oh
14:06:10  <Hazzard> my bad, pretend I didn't say that last line
14:06:25  *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.137.99.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:06:36  <lestat> which?
14:07:41  <Hazzard> Nvm, I just clicked the wrong button. The grfs are avaliable
14:07:50  <Hazzard> I didn't have any trouble joining
14:13:16  <Hazzard> @wiki curve length speed
14:13:45  <Hazzard> !help
14:13:45  *** Hazzard was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
14:14:12  <dihedral> <lestat> please try to enter the server to see if you can <- stop advertising, we know its there ;-)
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14:18:06  <planetmaker> haha, hazzard
14:19:11  <TrueBrain> the script is rather efficient and very accurate :D
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14:22:33  <Hazzard> Lol
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14:22:37  <Hazzard> Sorry for my derpyness
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14:36:39  <drac_boy> hi
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16:00:48  <nicfer> is there a hotkey for station/depot direction selection?
16:04:37  *** Nat_AFK is now known as Nat_aS
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16:10:03  <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1000000#p1000000 <- Eddi|zuHause: you should claim your rights wrt. http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=59726
16:13:37  <Eddi|zuHause> nicfer: the elements of the rail/road/whatever toolbar can be reached with the 1-9 keys
16:14:03  <Eddi|zuHause> nicfer: the directions can currently not be changed with keys
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16:50:10  <Terkhen> hello
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17:00:48  <andythenorth> should I be drawing coal mines?
17:00:58  <andythenorth> ISA's has kind of inspired me :P
17:01:33  *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
17:06:51  <Nat_aS> yes
17:06:59  <Nat_aS> FIRS needs a coal chain
17:07:05  <Alberth> inspiration is always good
17:07:14  <andythenorth> Nat_aS: what do you suggest for that chain?
17:07:20  <Nat_aS> send it to powerplants for easy money, or to steel mills for improved production
17:07:25  <Nat_aS> maybe some other industries
17:07:26  <Nat_aS> not sure
17:07:31  <Nat_aS> but those are the oubvious uses of coal
17:07:41  <Zuu> A coal chain with unusual low payments so that players that blindly go for coal get into trouble :-)
17:07:52  <Nat_aS> lawl
17:07:56  * andythenorth is a bit confused
17:08:10  <Nat_aS> Hmm, make coal a really low density cargo
17:08:19  <Nat_aS> so it needs huge trains to earn a profit
17:09:10  <Nat_aS> andythenorth, Zuu was making fun of how easy money coal is in normal games.
17:09:22  <Nat_aS> I always play tropical though, so wood is my easy money
17:09:25  <andythenorth> hmm
17:09:29  <Zuu> yep
17:09:31  * andythenorth might do something else for a bit
17:09:32  <andythenorth> bye
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17:13:34  <Terkhen> coal is easy money, you can dump it at a steel mill too, no need gameplay-wise for a power plant :)
17:17:14  <Rienzilla> hmm
17:17:24  <Rienzilla> is there a way to configure an openttd to make time go slower?
17:17:57  <Rienzilla> (so the technological advancements won come as quickly?)
17:18:38  <frosch123> you can play while paused :)
17:18:57  <Rienzilla> well thatÅs not what i mean
17:19:21  <Rienzilla> if I play for a night on a game, then a friend also in that game is running on steam engines when I have maglev :)
17:19:24  <frosch123> there are various "daylength" patches, but they have various trouble
17:20:06  <Zuu> Or you can play at year 50000(?), then you will keep the same year through the entire game.
17:20:38  <Zuu> Or use game cheats to set time back a few times during the game.
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17:23:29  <Nat_aS> just disable engine expiring
17:23:32  <Nat_aS> and intrest
17:23:36  <Nat_aS> i mean inflation
17:23:48  <Nat_aS> Disreguard years, aquire trains.
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17:39:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24216 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
17:39:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:39:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by KorneySan
17:39:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 39 changes by VoyagerOne
17:39:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 40 changes by Eskymak
17:39:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 changes by habell
17:39:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 39 changes by Stabilitronas
17:45:01  <andythenorth> only 151 commits left until FIRS 3K :o
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17:45:12  * andythenorth might catch up with openttd
17:45:20  <andythenorth> [if he does small enough commits] :P
17:46:53  <Alberth> merge everything into one repository :p
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17:51:01  <andythenorth> Alberth: update the translation
17:51:07  <andythenorth> one string at a time
17:51:11  <andythenorth> more commits :P
17:53:57  <frosch123> you might catch up in number of revisions
17:54:07  <frosch123> but you will not catch up in number of missing translations :p
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17:55:49  <andythenorth> ho
17:55:51  <andythenorth> a challenge
17:56:04  <andythenorth> what if I combine FIRS with CHIPS, HEQS and FISH?
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18:19:28  <Alberth> but firs dutch translation is up-to-date :p
18:19:44  <andythenorth> I could abusively change some strings :P
18:19:51  <andythenorth> I need another input cargo for the iron works
18:19:59  <andythenorth> it has iron ore and wood
18:20:06  <andythenorth> this is a balancing issue against the steel works
18:20:13  <andythenorth> sand?  [for casting]
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18:20:36  <Alberth> scrap metal?
18:21:12  <Alberth> bricks?
18:22:15  <Alberth> combining all sets will make nml take a day or so to build :p
18:22:24  <andythenorth> scrap metal is plausible, but not very interesting
18:23:00  <Alberth> sand could be fun, and is not totally impossible :)
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18:23:27  * Alberth likes sand pits
18:25:29  * andythenorth will try it
18:27:31  <supermop> haha, you'd be hard pressed to justify using much sand
18:28:00  <andythenorth> I know
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18:28:08  <andythenorth> 2t metal per 8t sand seems overkill
18:28:15  <andythenorth> but I need game balance :P
18:28:20  <supermop> also, why can't the paper mill use plant fibers?
18:28:52  <supermop> oooh also:
18:29:10  <andythenorth> paper mill has 3 cargos already
18:29:26  <supermop> in tropical situations the name of sugar beet could change to sugar cane, but otherwise stay the same as now?
18:30:03  <andythenorth> supermop tried the grf? :
18:30:04  <andythenorth> :P
18:30:11  <andythenorth> hmm
18:30:29  <supermop> playing a game with 0.7.4 lately
18:30:30  <andythenorth> casting metal uses 3 to 6 tons of foundry sand per 1t metal produced
18:30:35  <andythenorth> that's interesting
18:30:55  <supermop> can't they re use it?
18:31:24  <andythenorth> they can to some extent
18:31:26  <andythenorth> it degrades
18:31:35  <supermop> i had used chills pack so much that this is the first time i've played with a new-ish firs
18:31:41  <andythenorth> :)
18:31:46  <supermop> but
18:32:26  <supermop> im using regular trains, and the manley morel, dash, and 125 all default to having the heads carry fruit
18:32:41  <andythenorth> that's interesting
18:32:55  <supermop> just noticed after 20 years of running horrible commuter services
18:32:56  <andythenorth> raise a FIRS bug?
18:33:03  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/issues
18:33:11  <andythenorth> I have no idea why or what can be done to fix that :)
18:33:29  <supermop> as with the original DMUs i limit unpowered cars to 1 or 2 per MU set to keep HP up
18:34:20  <supermop> so would have a train of A-B-A-A-B-A (a is dmu head, b is passenger car), that could only carry 80 people
18:34:59  <andythenorth> I've no idea why they do that instead of PAX
18:35:59  <Alberth> you can stack fruit to the ceiling and on top of the engine :p
18:36:02  <supermop> me neither, never had that problem with 2cc etc so i am inclined to think its a default vehicle problem
18:36:07  <supermop> yep
18:36:07  <andythenorth> supermop: I can't replicate it
18:36:23  <andythenorth> Alberth: can you replicate that?
18:36:34  <andythenorth> of if you're busy, np
18:36:38  * Alberth looks for an openttd
18:36:49  <supermop> I actually feel that every thing should refit to everything - I can carry suitcases full of coal onto a flight if i really wanted to
18:37:14  <supermop> i cant remember if its original trains or ogfx+
18:37:19  <supermop> i'll check tonight
18:37:33  <MNIM> fun fact: during the blockade of berlin in the cold war coal was flown in through the air
18:37:43  <Alberth> oh, some idiot dev changed all strings in the settings window, this is going to take a while :p
18:38:11  <supermop> might be + because the ic 125 cars take on special livery to match the locomotives
18:42:28  <andythenorth> hmm
18:42:40  <andythenorth> my gut says this idea of 'sand for iron works' might be wrong
18:43:20  <andythenorth> but the gearing down on the metal chain is insane in early games
18:43:40  <andythenorth> 8t ore + 8t wood = 8t metal
18:44:24  <andythenorth> 8t metal = 2.5t ENSP, 2.5t FMSP (with rounding losses or gains for hex maths)
18:44:28  <Alberth> andythenorth: yes
18:44:46  <andythenorth> yes it's insane?  or yes you replicated the bug? :)
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18:45:54  <Alberth>  http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/fruity_engine.png
18:46:37  <Alberth> sand for iron works is quite a stretch, I agree :)
18:47:05  <andythenorth> the fruit is opengfx+ trains related?
18:48:54  * andythenorth reverts sand at iron works
18:49:08  <Alberth> without the ogfx+trains it has passengers
18:49:14  <andythenorth> same here
18:49:22  <andythenorth> opengfx+ trains bug
18:49:24  <Alberth> 2 commits without doing anything !  ;)
18:49:32  <andythenorth>  bug / feature
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18:51:04  <andythenorth> maybe the forge should just be more efficient
18:51:10  <andythenorth> 8t per 8t instead of 5t per 8t
18:51:41  <Alberth> shall I report it?
18:52:03  <andythenorth> please
18:52:06  <andythenorth> thankyou
18:57:20  <Alberth> supermop, andythenorth: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3970
19:01:00  <andythenorth> thanks
19:02:58  * andythenorth considers increasing production with pax deliveries :P
19:03:15  <supermop> cool
19:03:23  <andythenorth> can't be done really
19:03:35  <andythenorth> frosch123: could industry tiles produce? I know it's insane and will be abused...but...?
19:04:19  <supermop> i was thinking about oil rigs - production should go down with passengers, as the workers would get too distracted with a ferry load of visitors on the platform
19:05:15  <supermop> sorry if i am distracting you with silly ideas
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19:09:02  * andythenorth wonders what third cargo the Iron Works could accept
19:11:11  <Alberth> it's a difficult question
19:11:29  <Alberth> 2 input cargoes not enough?
19:11:36  <andythenorth> one option is to delete that industry
19:11:41  <andythenorth> I always like that option ;)
19:12:51  <Eddi|zuHause> close the industry after steel mills become available
19:13:07  <andythenorth> yes
19:13:12  <andythenorth> that's part of the plan :)
19:13:55  <Alberth> so less useful is not so bad, imho
19:14:06  <an