Config
Log for #openttd on 19th May 2012:
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00:33:24  <Kylie> hey
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01:38:32  <nicfer> I suppose everyone is aware about the glitch that prevents to save using the 'Enter' key after selecting a savegame to overwrite
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02:05:30  <Eddi|zuHause> never suppose anyone is aware about anything. always make a report.
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06:21:46  <Pikka> Yep
06:22:28  <Alberth> moin
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06:27:24  <Pikka> hello Alberth
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07:45:06  <Terkhen> good morning
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07:50:45  <Alberth> moin
08:06:52  <Zuu> good morning
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08:43:01  <Elukka> http://www.spacex.com/webcast/
08:43:06  <Elukka> first commercial launch to the ISS in 5 minutes
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08:44:00  <Hazzard> Cool
08:44:45  <planetmaker> oh, thx. I nearly forgot, Elukka :-)
08:45:24  <planetmaker> moin everyone
08:46:22  <Hazzard> moin?
08:48:03  <planetmaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moin
08:48:50  <SpComb> aww
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08:49:00  <planetmaker> eh.
08:49:12  <Hazzard> ...
08:49:34  <Elukka> welp
08:49:38  <Elukka> better it aborts there than in the air
08:49:44  <planetmaker> quite so
08:50:05  <Elukka> i'm interested to know what happened though
08:50:12  <Elukka> it aborted after ignition
08:50:19  <planetmaker> they said that flight computers did not start up
08:52:38  <Elukka> instantaneous launch window, can't try again today
08:53:58  <Alberth> someone's day is very much ruined :p
08:54:05  <planetmaker> sure not. They had a partial ignition. You want every system on 100% capacity before start ;-)
08:54:11  <planetmaker> haha, Alberth, I guess  you're right
08:54:43  <planetmaker> though... on the last sounding rocket campaign everything worked... until the parachute was supposed to open...
08:54:58  <planetmaker> we only got back a pile of scattered experiment remains
08:55:07  <planetmaker> luckily the flash card survived the 80km drop
08:55:14  <planetmaker> with all the data
08:55:40  <Alberth> ah you got all the important bits :)
08:56:01  <planetmaker> yup. But the dreams to re-fly it were literally shattered :-P
08:56:06  <Alberth> :)
08:59:08  <__ln__> "one-second window"
08:59:42  <Hazzard> You always want to know what went wrong the first time
09:01:21  <planetmaker> in any case, I guess our experiment ride on the dragon space craft will be delayed, too :-P
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11:39:35  <Wolf01> hello
11:44:04  <FLHerne> hello
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12:20:30  <NGC3982> morning
12:28:48  <Arafangion> Evening.
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13:28:30  <spongie> Is it possible to change the displayed text of a button to some dynamic string, like displaying a specific integer etc?
13:29:00  <planetmaker> in what context?
13:30:19  <spongie> I have a button that opens a string query, I'd like the text displayed to be an integer value.
13:30:34  <spongie> im guessing one has to define parameters to replace the {*} things in the strings
13:31:02  <planetmaker> patch / AI / GS / Newgrf?
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13:32:48  <spongie> patch
13:34:01  <planetmaker> yes, you define a string with parameter. where the number is the parameter
13:34:26  <planetmaker> "Clone {COMMA} cars at once"
13:34:50  <planetmaker> actually... "Clone {COMMA} car {P 0 "" s} at once"
13:39:46  <spongie> How come the caption of my query string window does not recognize {WAYPOINT} ?
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13:46:05  <spongie> how do I set the value of what is inside {COMMA} {NUM} or whatever
13:48:16  <Alberth> with SetDParam
13:49:01  <Alberth> there are examples all over the place in the code
13:50:49  <spongie> yeah
13:50:52  <spongie> I see them.
13:52:05  <spongie> however, the {*} contains a name and the D params seem to be index based.
13:52:17  * Alberth nods
13:52:24  <spongie> If I have "{A} and {B}" that means I set parameters 0 and 1 ?
13:52:35  <Alberth> names are useless with {STRING}{STRING}
13:53:13  <Alberth> tias :)
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13:55:40  <spongie> I have two problems setting my value. 1) ShowQueryString seems to be a singleton window, is it possible to make it unique per parent only? and 2) ShowQueryString has two string parameters, I can currently only set the parameter for the first (the preset value in the input), how do I set the caption string parameter?
13:56:00  <spongie> (i.e the input window title parameter)
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13:57:23  <Alberth> no idea, I have not seen that code for several years
13:58:06  <Alberth> I would not be surprised if it is not possible currently
13:58:43  <Alberth> does the program have a string query window with variable caption somewhere, currently?
13:59:28  <spongie> Could be.
13:59:37  <spongie> How would you recommend I make an integer input for my window?
14:00:02  <Alberth> what's wrong with the current query window?
14:00:22  <spongie> the two problems I described above
14:02:35  <Alberth> I don't understand 1, and why is a fixed "Input value" kind of caption not good enough, given that you have one such window, so no way to get confused, I think
14:03:09  <Alberth> but if you think it should be done in a different way, extend the code :)
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14:04:06  <spongie> Alberth: one is not about the caption
14:04:13  <spongie> one is about it being a singleton
14:04:22  <Alberth> yes, why is that bad?
14:04:54  <Alberth> having 5 windows with just a edit box to enter a number is not useful imho, as I can type in one at a time only
14:05:15  <spongie> So the last one is always for the last activated?
14:05:32  <Alberth> ?
14:05:48  <Alberth> what do you input?
14:06:46  <Alberth> why is a double click to edit a number not a good solution
14:07:16  <spongie> i dont know what you mean, double click
14:07:24  <spongie> currently when you click a button in my ui the input appears
14:07:51  <Alberth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-click
14:08:31  <Alberth> so I type a number, press enter, done. What's the problem?
14:08:57  <planetmaker> I've the strong feeling that this discussion is way too abstract and would simplify tremendously if we talked a concrete use case and existing patch
14:09:37  <Alberth> I agree, concrete cases always work best :)
14:10:32  <spongie> Alberth: if one presses the button, the input appears. if one then presses the same button but in another window, the input is a singleton
14:10:42  <spongie> but yes, I can see the point of not allowing multiple inputs
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14:36:33  <spongie> im almost ready to showcase the patch, what would be the best way? forum post?
14:37:01  <planetmaker> yes
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16:35:14  <spongie> yay, my shit works.
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16:52:21  * andythenorth has recently sent something into space
16:52:26  <andythenorth> more on that another time :P
16:53:01  <Alberth> o/
16:54:24  <NGC3982> :O
16:54:33  <NGC3982> andythenorth: what was it?
16:54:40  <andythenorth> not saying yet
16:55:08  <NGC3982> :(
16:56:27  <Alberth> bits into cyber-space :p
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17:38:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24263 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt latvian.txt swedish.txt):
17:38:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:38:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 88 changes by arnau
17:38:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 1 changes by Parastais
17:38:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovenian - 2 changes by
17:38:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: swedish - 37 changes by Joel_A, Zuu
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19:49:09  <OpenTTDfan> gday
19:49:32  <Alberth> hi
19:49:40  <OpenTTDfan> i see a lot of idlers..anyone active?
19:49:42  <OpenTTDfan> hi
19:49:50  <Alberth> not today it seems
19:50:25  <OpenTTDfan> you just a regular player?
19:50:46  <Alberth> I hardly play, unless you mean in the source code :)
19:50:55  <OpenTTDfan> oh goodie
19:51:01  <OpenTTDfan> so you're a developer?
19:51:10  <Alberth> one of them :)
19:51:27  <OpenTTDfan> are you open to ideas?:)
19:51:34  <OpenTTDfan> new ones
19:52:11  <Alberth> ideas are the easy part
19:52:40  <OpenTTDfan> I'm loving the open ttd....I'm opening it every morning, before the browser :P
19:52:40  <Alberth> getting them working in all edge cases and thinking them through is the real challenge
19:53:09  <Alberth> as you can see in the suggestions forum, there are many people doing suggestions
19:53:11  <OpenTTDfan> i feel ya
19:53:19  <OpenTTDfan> indeed
19:53:35  <OpenTTDfan> studied that
19:53:43  <OpenTTDfan> in a reasonable matter
19:53:46  <Alberth> not to mention people spamming our tracker with geature requests :)
19:53:59  <Alberth> *feature even
19:54:07  <OpenTTDfan> oh i see
19:55:01  <OpenTTDfan> so my idea of making a taxi car service in the game its far fetched?
19:55:23  <OpenTTDfan> :)
19:55:32  <planetmaker> get the towncars grf and use it
19:55:35  <Alberth> well, it's a new one, I'll give you that :)
19:55:54  <planetmaker> capacity typically 1 passenger or so ;-)
19:56:00  <NGC3982> http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/525971_453460004683458_205344452828349_100692956_299296988_n.jpg
19:56:15  <Alberth> you could make 'buses' in the shape of a taxi
19:56:19  <planetmaker> you even have an AI which will spam towns with those vehicles, if you like. TowncarsAI
19:56:22  <planetmaker> or similar
19:56:24  <OpenTTDfan> hmmm so it actually exists? gotta check that
19:57:16  <Alberth> their goal is more to have traffic in the streets
19:57:25  <OpenTTDfan> i see
19:58:01  <Alberth> but a NewGRF that defines a bus that looks like a taxi is quite feasible
19:58:14  <OpenTTDfan> yea..
19:58:24  <OpenTTDfan> but it should be a little different
19:58:35  <planetmaker> then write the matching newgrf and / or AI
19:58:43  <planetmaker> nothing which core openttd needs to worry about ;-)
19:59:13  <opa> why a new ai is needed?
19:59:16  <OpenTTDfan> like..the taxi should just wonder around cities and take passengers from everywhere...but i guess coding that its just too insane
19:59:43  <Alberth> yeah, but it feels wrong to me
19:59:51  <OpenTTDfan> why?
20:00:28  <Alberth> OpenTTD is mostly about mass transport between cities, a taxi does not nicely fit in there
20:00:37  <OpenTTDfan> cant code the taxi to randomly take passengers from cities and randomly taking them different distances?
20:01:12  <opa> taxi expands the radius of an airport within a city
20:01:13  <Alberth> 'take passengers'?  from where?
20:01:14  <OpenTTDfan> transport tycoon....my own taxi company :P
20:01:32  <OpenTTDfan> from anywhere..just like a taxy
20:01:34  <Alberth> it is more simcity-ish w.r.t. scale
20:01:35  <OpenTTDfan> taxi
20:01:41  <OpenTTDfan> no no
20:02:16  <Alberth> yeah, you are not running a transport company there
20:02:45  <OpenTTDfan> oh cmoon a taxi co is not a transport company?
20:03:10  <Alberth> sure it is, "there" was in sim-city
20:03:33  <OpenTTDfan> i have no ideea gow the coding is made or if this could be possible...
20:03:47  <OpenTTDfan> stop comparing it to som man lol:))
20:03:53  <OpenTTDfan> sim*
20:04:05  <Alberth> quite non-trivial in coding
20:04:18  <Alberth> all transport runs through stations
20:04:49  <OpenTTDfan> i see there are baloon GRFs going 25kmph...
20:04:58  <OpenTTDfan> well...thats NOT transpor
20:04:58  <OpenTTDfan> t
20:05:14  <Alberth> so "random pickup" is a whole new ball game, and not compatible with existing (house) newgrfs
20:05:17  <OpenTTDfan> 2 passengers
20:05:51  <OpenTTDfan> cant the code be fooled the whole city is a station?
20:06:18  <OpenTTDfan> ..somehow
20:06:36  <OpenTTDfan> not throwing stones here just ideas
20:07:03  <planetmaker> what's the point of random pickup and drop?
20:07:04  <Alberth> so you just add a station near the edge, and you have coverage over the entire city? nice
20:07:42  <planetmaker> create some roadside stops and use orders to go to different stations depending on usage
20:07:48  <OpenTTDfan> yea you could add a taxi station....where taxi goes (maybe) when out of orders
20:08:06  <Alberth> and stations by 2 or more players in the same city become one? WOW IS for free :D
20:08:47  <OpenTTDfan> no
20:09:00  <OpenTTDfan> each player has its own taxies
20:09:07  <OpenTTDfan> :-?
20:09:20  <Alberth> you just claimed the entire city was one station
20:09:39  <Alberth> and I am showing you consequences of that :)
20:10:05  <OpenTTDfan> no...thinking of coding it as it would be....so the taxi could get passengers froem antwhere
20:10:19  <OpenTTDfan> pardon my typos
20:10:47  <Alberth> as I said quite non-trivial
20:12:24  <OpenTTDfan> the idea is to have taxi cars making deliveries throughout the cities, not necessarily in stations...going randomly wherever street is
20:12:43  <Alberth> Yeah I understand
20:13:15  <OpenTTDfan> but i guess coding that its probably impossible
20:13:36  <Alberth> nothing is impossible, it just takes you a few years
20:14:12  <OpenTTDfan> its a transport games, and seeing there are balloons ingame....was thinking that taxi is necessarily
20:14:23  <OpenTTDfan> game*
20:14:34  <OpenTTDfan> yea probably
20:14:37  <OpenTTDfan> :D
20:14:48  <Alberth> balloons do start from airports, so behave as 'normal' planes
20:14:55  <OpenTTDfan> yea
20:15:00  <OpenTTDfan> thought of that
20:15:01  <Alberth> they do not try to do new things
20:15:08  <OpenTTDfan> indeed
20:15:30  <Alberth> a bus that looks like a taxi is *very* doable.
20:15:36  <OpenTTDfan> trams was a nice idea, just discovered those
20:15:53  <Alberth> you can also change the drive-through bus stop sprites
20:16:24  <Alberth> if you want fundamental changes in the game, it is going to take a LOT of time
20:16:42  <OpenTTDfan> is it possible to make a bus go all over and stop in random places? thats a taxi pretty much
20:16:45  <Alberth> and for a small feature like taxies in a city, tmwftlb imho
20:17:01  <SpComb> busses without orders work fine for non-cargodist games
20:17:14  <SpComb> can even make a profit, sometimes
20:17:21  <OpenTTDfan> :)
20:19:01  <OpenTTDfan> I know making a bus look like a taxi is somehow easy....but it shouldn't stop in stations only
20:19:16  <SpComb> what's the benefit of having taxis?
20:19:26  <SpComb> as in, what problem in the game would they solve?
20:20:09  <OpenTTDfan> not a problem, but a real transport offer..like in real life
20:20:40  <Alberth> what's the game profit from it?
20:21:06  <SpComb> OpenTTD isn't all that close to real life
20:21:13  <OpenTTDfan> you mean cash revenue?
20:21:17  <SpComb> it would get in the way of it being fun :)
20:21:18  <Alberth> ie starting a number of taxies and letting them run all by themselves is not very useful from a gaming point of view
20:21:41  <OpenTTDfan> lol you invented trams so i guess the game tries to follow life...
20:21:46  <SpComb> and taxis are probably too low-volume to work in OpenTTD's macro world
20:22:09  <Alberth> ie trains are fun because you spend ages on getting the tracks and the cargo transport right
20:22:26  <OpenTTDfan> i know thats why Im playing it :D
20:22:30  <SpComb> and trunk doesn't have cargodist, so intra-town feeder services only work for town growth, anyways
20:22:38  <Alberth> so what's the fun in taxies?
20:22:52  <Alberth> you cannot do anything with them
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20:23:14  <Alberth> ie game extensions are fun-driven, not real-life driven
20:24:07  <Alberth> don't get me wrong, I think making a taxi NewGRF is fun to do, and fun to run a few times
20:24:13  <Alberth> but as core game feature?
20:25:29  <OpenTTDfan> oook....what if you can give it paths to follow...like when you assign a taxi to follow some paths and you name the paths....throughout the citie ans other citeies as well...wherever street exist...
20:25:33  <OpenTTDfan> don't know...
20:25:36  <OpenTTDfan> just thinkin
20:28:44  <OpenTTDfan> you're probably right taxi is not worth it
20:29:19  <OpenTTDfan> but the games has all the transport possibilities except this
20:29:30  <SpComb> it doesn't have walking either :)
20:29:39  <Alberth> or cars :)
20:29:40  <SpComb> imagine that, cargo transporting itself without your getting paid!
20:29:41  <SpComb> how evil
20:29:51  <OpenTTDfan> bicycling neither lol
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20:31:09  <OpenTTDfan> oh well...
20:31:24  <OpenTTDfan> no matter the game is fun as it is anyway
20:31:58  <Alberth> not really, I almost never play it :)
20:32:08  <OpenTTDfan> :)
20:32:15  <OpenTTDfan> you are probably sick of it
20:32:57  <OpenTTDfan> when call of dusy is out there...clearly open ttd is losing players lol
20:32:58  <Alberth> I have no nice build challenges any more
20:33:44  <SpComb> Alberth: tried cargod[ie]st? :)
20:34:09  <OpenTTDfan> how about bridges and tunnels on the diagonal?
20:34:19  <Alberth> dest worked fine, but it stopped. yacd never worked nicely for me
20:34:19  <OpenTTDfan> no
20:34:43  <Alberth> needs a map rewrite
20:35:26  <OpenTTDfan> yea..
20:35:30  <planetmaker> yacd worked for me... it was actually fun and would be even more fun now with autorefit :-)
20:35:55  <Alberth> played dist one time, and had trouble with connections dropping due to low volume
20:36:29  <opa> byw how does coding games differ from coding customized business solutions?
20:36:32  <SpComb> dist can be finicky
20:36:43  <opa> from developers point of view
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20:36:54  <planetmaker> with dist I had some issues wrt load balance and destinations of cargo
20:36:58  <Alberth> opa: I only do fun things in OpenTTD
20:37:41  <Alberth> where my notion of fun is probably hugely different from yours :p
20:38:18  <Yexo> hello
20:38:26  <Alberth> I found yacd very hard to get off the ground, with pax it is pretty much impossible
20:38:29  <OpenTTDfan> i guess optimizing is the name of the fun
20:38:29  <Alberth> hi Yexo
20:38:33  <Yexo> hey Alberth
20:38:46  <Alberth> OpenTTDfan: nope, refactoring is
20:39:02  <OpenTTDfan> hmmm and how is that?
20:39:28  <OpenTTDfan> nothing on wiki lol
20:39:31  <Alberth> what do you mean?
20:39:49  <OpenTTDfan> refactoring?
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20:40:17  <Alberth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_refactoring  ? :)
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20:41:35  <Alberth> not that scared hopefully :)
20:41:36  <OpenTTDfan> oh i see....a whole new level of palying open ttd lol
20:43:21  <Alberth> oh, playing openttd you mean. Right :)    I make random unplanned connections, and extend the network. Since I don't make plans, stuff tends to get jammed, so I must re-organize tracks and junctions frequently
20:43:45  <Alberth> and I play with breakdowns and freight-multiplier at 5 or 6
20:43:53  <SpComb> organic growth
20:44:17  <Alberth> and no landscaping if possible
20:44:32  <OpenTTDfan> oh
20:44:41  <SpComb> uh, breakdowns is just masochistic
20:44:55  <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/long_way_up.png  like this :)
20:45:13  <NGC3982> haha
20:45:18  <NGC3982> why, god. why.
20:45:21  <OpenTTDfan> lol
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20:46:00  <Alberth> SpComb if you pick high reliability engines, breakdowns are not a problem
20:47:34  <Alberth> basically, you need to start building extra tracks sooner, as you cannot pack trains together, since a breakdown disrupts everything then
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20:52:33  <planetmaker> Alberth: for that screenshot I know shorter tracks given the shown trainlength ;-)
20:54:05  <Alberth> yeah, but it looks so nice ;)
20:54:53  <Alberth> and this does work better than straight up the hill
20:58:56  <planetmaker> ofc, I don't mean straight up the hill. But if you go with the uphill track further left and then diagonal, you could avoid the one complete turn
21:09:20  <Alberth> oh, yeah. There used to be other tracks there :)
21:11:18  <Alberth> good night all
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21:14:11  <OpenTTDfan> good night
21:14:25  <OpenTTDfan> arent you watching the final :) ?
21:17:17  <OpenTTDfan> bayern gonna win it :P
21:17:50  <planetmaker> they kinda deserve it ;-)
21:18:20  <OpenTTDfan> indeed
21:19:10  <OpenTTDfan> you from london?
21:23:04  <OpenTTDfan> chelsea got it
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21:38:40  <FLHerne> Indeed. Didn't deserve it though :-(
21:39:04  <planetmaker> they should have lost 3:1...
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22:02:39  <Eddi|zuHause> the bayern triple! :)
22:02:56  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
22:03:12  <Eddi|zuHause> lost in the Bundesliga, lost in the Pokal, and lost in the champions league :)
22:05:59  <planetmaker> :-D
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