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Log for #openttd on 19th July 2012:
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06:14:20  <Terkhen> good morning
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06:21:40  <telanus> is it Morning already?
06:21:45  <NGC3982> indeed.
06:21:50  * telanus is very tired
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07:00:58  <dihedral> good morning
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07:05:25  <Alberth> hi hi
07:07:21  <telanus1> hell My Telecom line sux today :(
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07:10:41  <Alberth> find a new provider ?
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07:24:39  <planetmaker> hello
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08:52:46  <peter1138> Good morning.
09:01:33  <peter1138> Anyone here rich enough to own a retina MBP yet? heh
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09:18:49  <Terkhen> some people in the forum are :P
09:18:55  <Terkhen> hi peter1138
09:21:55  <Alberth> some others refuse to support a company that does not support GPL
09:23:55  <peter1138> Oh, shall we drop Windows, OS X, OS/2 and Morphos support?
09:24:15  <peter1138> (Actually maybe not OS/2, I don't know what IBM are up to these days)
09:27:49  <Alberth> no need, the program gets buggy on its own in time due to lack of skilled people for the OS
09:41:01  <Terkhen> well, windows license does not prevent running GPL software (for now)
09:47:47  <Alberth> yep, and the VS2011 free compiler incident shows how reliable that is
09:49:12  <planetmaker> what was that incident?
09:53:36  <Alberth> "we're not going to release a free VS2011 compiler version", they changed their mind two weeks later
09:54:18  <Eddi|zuHause> what does that have to do with GPL?
09:55:13  <Alberth> cp Makefile.local.sample Makefile.local ; sed -i s/_V = @/_V =/ Makefile.local    is supposed to give me echo-ing of commands as they are executed?
09:55:36  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: it nicely demonstrates how much they care about developers not under their control
09:56:10  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds awfully conspiracy-y to me...
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09:58:01  <planetmaker> Alberth: just use make _V=
09:58:05  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone else having Civ2 crashing in wine? (apparently in winevdm.exe) ... also the sound is distorted (probably related)
09:58:11  <Alberth> planetmaker: where?
09:58:22  <planetmaker> but yes, doing that in Makefile.local also works. I meant as command line parameter
09:58:31  <Alberth> there are toooo many makefiles
09:58:41  <planetmaker> yes, there are
09:59:04  <planetmaker> when calling make. You can instead of just "make" use "make _V="
10:00:10  <planetmaker> Alberth: dirty... but temp grass: http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/start32bpp.diff
10:00:16  <planetmaker> when merging opengfx and zbase
10:00:51  <planetmaker> it really needs formatted strings in nml templates :-)
10:01:14  <planetmaker> would make it much shorter
10:01:32  <Hirundo> planetmaker: wait 5 minutes... :-)
10:01:46  <planetmaker> as then the filename offsets like you defined (in the now deleted generation) can be used there
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10:01:56  <planetmaker> Hirundo: just playing. Not committing anything :-)
10:02:01  <Eddi|zuHause> just allow string-concatenation?
10:02:47  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause:   "%04d" % (base+offset)
10:03:22  <Eddi|zuHause> very python-ish :)
10:05:02  <Hirundo> It will be format_string("%s%04d", "zBase", 12)
10:05:17  <planetmaker> nice :-)
10:05:19  <Alberth> planetmaker:   http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/tmpls.patch
10:05:34  <Hirundo> With possibly template foo(a, b)  ... format_string("%s%d", a, b)
10:06:41  <planetmaker> also nice :-)
10:08:32  <Hirundo> done
10:10:12  <Terkhen> Alberth: that's why I said for now :P
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12:24:14  <dihedral> :o glx did not say hello :-(
12:24:31  <glx> I rarely say hello here ;)
12:25:11  <dihedral> ah :-)
12:25:32  <dihedral> peter1138, i thought Microsoft did support OpenSource (with a certain definition of 'support')
12:37:18  <Belugas> hello
12:38:08  <Belugas> i (most of the time) always do, me!
12:48:23  <peter1138> Hurr, executing an UPDATE in SQL. So far it's taken 2 hours 24 minutes...
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12:59:50  <dihedral> that must be one heck of a statement or there is a lock :-P
13:00:10  <Alberth> or a big query on a small machine :p
13:01:33  <Belugas> or an update on non indexed data fields...
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13:04:29  <FLHerne> Is there a way to stop a running GS, similar to stop_ai?
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13:07:17  <FLHerne> Alternatively, is there any way to change GS settings without starting another game?
13:10:23  <planetmaker> I believe there is not
13:13:26  <FLHerne> planetmaker :-(
13:13:54  <FLHerne> Presumably in case of game breakage if the GS was doing something weird?
13:16:29  <Alberth> probably nobody has really thought about consequences of such actions at all
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13:22:03  <planetmaker> better safe than sorry ;-)
13:22:27  <planetmaker> game scripts are married to a map as much as newgrfs are
13:33:17  <FLHerne> planetmaker: But you can add/remove NewGRFs anyway :P
13:35:30  <planetmaker> Yep. And GameScripts set the rules properly from the start ;-)
13:37:59  <FLHerne> Ah well, crashed anyway. Now I can start again with better settings :-)
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15:05:54  <LordAro> afternoonings
15:06:28  <planetmaker> o/ LordAro
15:08:47  <peter1138> (13:59:52) peter1138: Hurr, executing an UPDATE in SQL. So far it's taken 2 hours 24 minutes...
15:08:56  <peter1138> Final execution time: 4 hours 18 minutes...
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15:13:17  <Eddi|zuHause> at least SQL commands are guaranteed to terminate :)
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15:35:13  <Rubidium> peter1138: only 4 hours... did a 'EXEC sp_msmakegeneration' a few days ago which took a bit more than 18 hours
15:37:01  <Rubidium> and that code didn't look really optimised; felt like it has at least O(n**2) behaviour, since the longer it was running the slower it became
15:37:49  <Rubidium> but that might be because I removed 8 million records at once; if I would have done them 100k at a time with runs to msmakegeneration it would be done way within 15 minutes
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15:43:30  <andythenorth> hmm
15:43:40  <andythenorth> might have to redraw all the graphics to 2x zoom level
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15:43:48  <andythenorth> that will keep me busy
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15:44:04  <planetmaker> make models, andythenorth  ;-)
15:46:16  <planetmaker> and script the rest so that you can hit "make render && make grf" :-P
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15:57:43  <planetmaker> @kban IrcCrasherDeveloper
15:57:43  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: IrcCrasherDeveloper is not in #openttd.
15:57:49  <planetmaker> @ban IrcCrasherDeveloper
15:57:56  <planetmaker> silly advertizement
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16:00:34  <andythenorth> ho
16:00:41  <andythenorth> I can build tunnels on coast
16:00:45  <andythenorth> didn't know that
16:00:58  <planetmaker> always or if you bulldoze first?
16:01:13  <andythenorth> always I think
16:01:32  <andythenorth> nice with the canal on water trick
16:01:51  <planetmaker> :-)
16:02:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i used that in my YACD game to fit the transrapid in
16:03:28  * andythenorth likes the tactic
16:08:08  * Sacro licks the tictac
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16:41:03  <peter1138> Rubidium: the 'interesting' part is there was neither CPU, RAM or IO load during any of it.
16:41:15  <peter1138> So I really wonder what it was doing all that time.
16:41:28  <peter1138> CPU constantly at 1-2%
16:41:33  <peter1138> RAM constantly at 2GB used
16:41:55  <peter1138> Hmm, maybe there was disk IO, but I'd expect that to consume CPU cycles if it's busy.
16:42:07  <Rubidium> peter1138: if it's mssql you could look at the activity monitor
16:42:37  <Rubidium> and it might just have been waiting on some table lock
16:45:00  <Rubidium> in my experience it's usually disk io that kills SQL performance
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16:48:33  <Rubidium> possibly the SQL is configured to use max 2GB. If it reached that, it's unlikely to return that, unless the system is under memory pressure
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17:07:47  * andythenorth made a dumb mistake
17:07:54  <andythenorth> cargo subtype != subtype string
17:08:18  <andythenorth> so "foo (Tanker)" and "bar (Cargo vessel)" are both refit cycle 0 :P
17:08:25  <andythenorth> this fucks with my plan tbh :P
17:08:51  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Get another plan :P
17:09:25  * FLHerne gets tied up in incomprehensibly recursive macros :-(
17:09:42  <andythenorth> avoid macros at all costs
17:09:53  <andythenorth> every time you use a macro a kitten dies
17:10:05  <andythenorth> every time you recurse a macro, an entire species of kitten dies
17:10:29  <andythenorth> macros are a necessary evil, best avoided
17:10:55  <andythenorth> string replacement, based on proper methods of proper first class objects
17:10:57  <andythenorth> ftw ^
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17:12:14  <andythenorth> hmm
17:12:23  <andythenorth> maybe he peter1138 likes macros :(
17:13:04  <FLHerne> andythenorth: It autogenerates NML fine, but every time I edit it it autogenerates gibberish instead :P
17:13:41  <andythenorth> what language?
17:14:14  <FLHerne> m4, as I said yesterday. Still trying to wrap my mind round the way it recurses :P
17:15:07  <andythenorth> paste
17:15:42  <andythenorth> I don't know m4, but if someone else looks, you'll see the problem
17:15:52  <FLHerne> Nah, I'll figure it out eventually :P
17:16:37  <FLHerne> Whenever I try to learn something, I manage to create total gibberish for a while :-)
17:19:10  <andythenorth> oops
17:19:18  <andythenorth> I have trolled myself into converting HEQS to trains :P
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17:20:49  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Aaargh!
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17:21:07  * FLHerne still thinks that's a bad idea :-(
17:33:43  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24415 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt german.txt italian.txt vietnamese.txt):
17:33:43  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:33:43  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: croatian - 6 changes by VoyagerOne
17:33:43  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: german - 6 changes by planetmaker
17:33:43  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: italian - 6 changes by lorenzodv
17:33:45  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 3 changes by nglekhoi
17:41:44  <planetmaker> FLHerne: m4 and nml: did you look at opengfx+train's (experimental) m4nml branch?
17:41:59  <planetmaker> xotic did some work there in that respect
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17:43:53  <FLHerne> planetmaker: No. I'm not trying to do anything that complex, though
17:45:09  <frosch123> anyone here running a ottd nightly windows 64bit?
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17:46:14  <andythenorth> when does 'extra buy menu text' become 'annoying spam' ?
17:46:33  <frosch123> when it contains an ascii art image of the vehicle
17:46:34  <planetmaker> 3rd line and more ;-)
17:46:40  <andythenorth> so far I have: ship type; refittable capacity information; propulsion information
17:46:45  <planetmaker> tl;dr :-P
17:46:58  <andythenorth> I could also add: loading speed (probly not); cargo aging factor; autorefit info
17:47:04  <andythenorth> yeah that
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17:47:23  <andythenorth> when is the new buy menu shipping?
17:47:32  <andythenorth> with the extended area for sprite
17:47:38  <planetmaker> autorefit hint might be nice
17:47:47  <planetmaker> loading speed... well...
17:47:53  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3115/buy_menu_rework.png
17:48:02  <andythenorth> loading speed is 'meh' I think
17:48:39  <planetmaker> refittable to gear ratio?
17:49:00  <andythenorth> not for ships :P
17:49:16  <andythenorth> hmm
17:49:30  <andythenorth> ship gear = cranes
17:49:38  <andythenorth> ships are ungeared, part-geared, or full-geared
17:49:50  <planetmaker> he
17:49:52  <andythenorth> full-geared ship can reach 100% of it's load space with cranes
17:49:59  <andythenorth> more gear = less cargo capacity
17:50:13  * andythenorth ponders a cargo subtype for gear amount
17:50:20  <andythenorth> affects loading speed
17:50:52  <andythenorth> can anyone spell 'overkill' ? :P
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17:53:12  * andythenorth thinks up other ideas
17:53:21  <andythenorth> with a newgrf generator, it's so easy :P
17:53:42  <andythenorth> ships can steam slow (efficient, cheap), or fast (deliver cargo quicker)
17:53:54  <andythenorth> ships can be ice capable, or not
17:54:40  <andythenorth> ships can have lots of crew (expensive), or legal minimums (more breakdowns)
17:55:16  <andythenorth> ship safe max load can vary between salt water and fresh water
17:55:36  <andythenorth> ships can have refrigeration equipment or not
17:57:31  <andythenorth> newgrfs can have combinatorial explosion of refit menu
17:57:32  <andythenorth> or not
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18:10:55  <FLHerne> andythenorth: We don't have ice yet :P
18:11:13  <andythenorth> we will
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18:16:05  <andythenorth> ice is just a matter of hacking rail types a bit
18:16:31  <andythenorth> make all water non-navigable
18:16:50  <andythenorth> then add rail types for ship route / ship route through ice
18:16:58  <FLHerne> ... :o
18:17:03  <andythenorth> and recode all ships as trains
18:17:12  * andythenorth is deadly serious
18:17:31  <andythenorth> unifying transport types is probably the best thing we could do right now
18:17:37  <andythenorth> unifying / deleting non-train types
18:17:37  <FLHerne> While you're at it, why not code helicopters as trains... :P
18:17:40  <andythenorth> yes
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18:18:13  <andythenorth> it's fine, just do air lanes as tracks
18:18:33  <andythenorth> we'd need to implement them as current tile height +1
18:18:38  <andythenorth> and it would maybe need new map
18:18:55  <andythenorth> but then we could enforce plane separation etc
18:19:09  <andythenorth> ships-as-trains would no longer drive through each other, nor have infinite capacity
18:19:25  <andythenorth> we could stop discussing multi-stop docks
18:19:28  <andythenorth> and flat docks
18:19:33  <andythenorth> and new ports
18:19:36  <andythenorth> and newgrf airports
18:19:38  <andythenorth> and roadtypes
18:19:47  <Alberth> and openttd
18:19:50  <Alberth> :)
18:20:13  <andythenorth> Alberth: it would be the ultimate comeback to "it's just a train game" :)
18:20:50  <Alberth> yes, no need to discuss new features, it's done
18:20:50  <andythenorth> this + the plan frosch123 suggested to make all object-y things 'cargo'
18:21:08  <andythenorth> we will need some trunk patches
18:21:17  <andythenorth> but mostly this can then be delegated to existing newgrf spec
18:21:47  <frosch123> i hope you are not quoting me out of context :)
18:22:02  <andythenorth> industries-are-just-cargo?
18:22:18  <Alberth> moving industries, finally!!
18:22:24  <andythenorth> maybe that was a fake-frosch :)
18:27:36  <NataS> hmm, if industries were produced in other industries, and had to be shipped to there construction site
18:27:38  <NataS> that would be cool
18:27:49  <NataS> i mean some sets have construction materials
18:27:58  <NataS> but it just goes to towns
18:28:18  <NataS> a high value one time shipment that turns into a normal route after would be cool
18:34:43  <andythenorth> for autorefit (nml) is cb sufficient?  or do I need flag as well?
18:38:39  <Alberth> NataS: try Settlers or Widelands ?
18:38:59  <TrueBrain> I am happy to annouance that the Compile Farm is back on its feet, and is compiling a new nightly as we speak; should be done in 20-ish minutes :)
18:39:00  <NataS> hmm?
18:39:15  <LordAro> yay :)
18:39:24  <LordAro> what was the problem?
18:40:04  <TrueBrain> Java being java; it used 100% CPU no matter what; a cold restart solved the problem magically ... but in the meantime I did update all the software related to it, so meh :)
18:41:06  <TrueBrain> and Bamboo 4.1 is a lot better; lot of kewl new features :)
18:41:30  <LordAro> yay, new features :)
18:41:42  <LordAro> glad there was no huge problem
18:41:44  <TrueBrain> it also is a lot faster :)
18:41:50  <frosch123> ah, the farm reset the fail statistics
18:41:56  <frosch123> now it looks better again :)
18:41:59  <TrueBrain> haha
18:42:29  <NataS> dosn't java have a wll publicized memory leak?
18:42:54  *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.143.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:42:54  <TrueBrain> Java is a language; it is like saying C has a memory leak
18:42:58  <TrueBrain> it makes no sense (at all)
18:47:53  <LordAro> owned :P
18:48:06  * NataS shrugs
18:48:14  <Xaroth> +1 TrueBrain
18:49:37  * telanus smiles, posted his fist post on the forum :D
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18:52:37  * andythenorth is falling asleep into his keyboard
18:52:41  <andythenorth> two nights of sick baby
18:52:46  <TrueBrain> into?!
18:52:49  <TrueBrain> that is rather painful
18:52:50  <andythenorth> tino
18:52:55  <andythenorth> hmm
18:52:56  <andythenorth> into
18:53:08  <TrueBrain> but that sucks ... babies should never be sick
18:53:18  <andythenorth> ideally not :P
18:53:19  <TrueBrain> (s)he better now?
18:53:23  <andythenorth> not yet
18:53:32  <andythenorth> same again tonight
18:53:33  <TrueBrain> :(
18:53:39  <andythenorth> not very sick, just awake and loud
18:53:47  <andythenorth> and sicky
18:54:06  * andythenorth thinks time to go ;)
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18:54:15  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r24416 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix [FS#5231]: [Win32] Unbreak NewGRF MD5 sum calculation. Macros and side effects don't mix, especially if there's some obscure '#define min' in a windows header that nobody thinks of.
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19:00:16  <TrueBrain> Nightly r24415 is now published! Party like it is 1999!
19:00:35  * Rubidium snores ;)
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19:03:20  <DDR> Oops. :P
19:03:50  * Xaroth throws a bucket of water over Rubidium to wake him up
19:04:08  *** Sleepie [~Sleepie@p50847935.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
19:04:40  <Sleepie> good evening
19:06:04  <Rubidium> moin
19:06:16  <Rubidium> Xaroth: pff... you can't throw that far!
19:06:36  <Xaroth> same country, unless you're still online while on vacation, so not -that- far
19:07:54  *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-16-17.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:09:34  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r24417 /trunk/src/ (fileio_func.h ini.cpp os/windows/win32.cpp): -Codechange: [Win32] Don't needlessly include windows.h in a commonly used header.
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19:32:42  <Wolf01> hello
19:35:35  <Sleepie> hi
19:41:39  <Alberth> hi hi
19:42:16  <planetmaker> hi hi hi
19:42:41  <FLHerne> hi hi hi hi?
19:44:27  <Wolf01> hi hi hi hi hi!
19:44:46  <Sleepie> ho
19:45:52  <Supercheese> hi^9
19:46:11  <Sleepie> thats cheating
19:46:43  <Supercheese> for (int i=0, i<100, i++)
19:46:48  <Supercheese> print "Hi";
19:46:49  <Sleepie> lol
19:46:52  <Supercheese> or something
19:47:11  <Supercheese> lazy-code  :P
19:47:35  <TrueBrain> geeks
19:48:32  <Xaroth> print "hi " * 10000000
19:48:46  <TrueBrain> @kick Xaroth it is no longer funny
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19:49:08  <Xaroth> pff @ tb
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20:11:04  <frosch123> night
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20:49:35  <Terkhen> good night
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20:54:38  <Sleepie> night
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21:10:47  <Wolf01> 'night all
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21:45:03  <Supercheese> I presume if I provide 32bpp sprites with the alternative_sprites block in NML, the resultant GRF automatically tells OTTD it prefers a 32bpp blitter, yes?
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21:50:08  <FLHerne> When did that button to allow smaller toolbars come in?
21:50:15  * FLHerne just noticed it
21:50:35  <planetmaker> the looping arrow? longer than 4 years ago
21:50:59  <planetmaker> Supercheese: that assumption iirc is coorect
21:51:14  <FLHerne> planetmaker: :o
21:51:30  <FLHerne> Sure it wasn't there last time I looked...
21:51:41  <planetmaker> old toad ;-)
21:52:25  <planetmaker> feel free to try old openttd versions. I'm quite sure it was already in 0.5
21:52:33  <FLHerne> Well, I wasn't playing four years ago, so it must have been there... :P
21:58:37  <planetmaker> hm, I just checked. September 2007 it was not present ;-)
21:59:44  <planetmaker> In 2009 it was present
22:01:45  <Sleepie> Which button you're talking about?
22:02:38  *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.70.174] has joined #openttd
22:02:55  <M1zera> "shade window" button
22:02:55  <planetmaker> He. 2008 it was also not present. So it was introduced in 0.7
22:03:05  <planetmaker> nope. The toolbar toggle button
22:03:25  <planetmaker> which is only visible, if you make the window smaller than ~300px or so
22:03:30  <Sleepie> ah those ones
22:03:39  <FLHerne> Neat.
22:03:49  * FLHerne wonders how he missed that
22:03:57  <planetmaker> big screens? :-)
22:04:14  *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER]
22:04:26  <FLHerne> I have some things with small screens, too :P Possibly not small enough though
22:05:15  <Supercheese> Oh, I've never made my window that small before
22:05:18  <Supercheese> Interesting
22:06:01  *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd []
22:06:51  <Sleepie> me too
22:07:57  *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:08:58  <Sleepie> a hidden feature? or is this documented in the wiki
22:09:16  * Sleepie goes reading the wiki
22:12:28  <planetmaker> I've seen it in the wiki
22:13:05  <Sleepie> i only found it in the changelog for 0.7 but not in the game interface docu
22:13:25  <Sleepie> I may have overlooked it though
22:15:16  <planetmaker> I don't see it where I exepected it
22:15:26  <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_interface
22:19:33  <planetmaker> [default | public] (9425) (svn r13339) -Feature: splitting of the main toolbar when the resolution becomes very low so the buttons are still visible and useable. Patch by Dominik.
22:20:02  <Sleepie> Yes thats what I mean it is missing on ^that wikipage...
22:20:20  <planetmaker> Add it :-)
22:20:43  <Sleepie> I will not a big deal
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22:21:40  <Sleepie> Do you have some tech infos like screensize to get this visible
22:22:11  <glx> less than 640px wide IIRC
22:22:12  <Sleepie> Otherwise I'll just make approximations by selftesting
22:22:32  <Sleepie> From what I see here it seems even less
22:22:33  <planetmaker> glx: no, smaller
22:22:51  <planetmaker> the toolbar itself is not 640px
22:23:01  <glx> I though it was
22:23:23  <planetmaker> let's test :-)
22:24:10  <Sleepie> I have 426 currently
22:24:31  <planetmaker> you might be right, glx
22:24:53  <planetmaker> but the button appears at 480 or so
22:25:57  <Sleepie> I think this value should be ok for the wiki
22:26:10  <Sleepie> I'll make a screenshot anyway
22:27:08  <planetmaker> 460 seems to be the limit here
22:27:16  <M1zera> I have one problem when I'm playing openttd...
22:27:56  <M1zera> my dream is to transfer everything on the map everywhere...
22:28:16  <M1zera> but I always get to point when I stop building new tracks and start watching trains...
22:28:23  <planetmaker> :-D
22:28:31  <planetmaker> sounds familiar
22:28:47  <Sleepie> planetmaker: maybe it depends also on fullsceen or windowed mode and OS and Aero or Classic (Win) or ... ;)
22:29:15  <planetmaker> Sleepie: I'm moderately sure it doesn't
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22:30:57  <Sleepie> planetmaker: fair enough I was quickly resizing the window
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22:31:51  <Sleepie> and in the end who cares about 20 pixels
22:32:43  * Sleepie sometimes also just watches his trains...
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22:34:41  <Sleepie> planetmaker: I'll add to the wiki tomorrow and give you pointer for review
22:34:50  <Sleepie> +a
22:36:17  <planetmaker> "if we can't fit half the buttons and the panels anymore, split the toolbar in two */"
22:38:12  <Sleepie> toolbar_gui.cpp (1436) ;)
22:38:21  <planetmaker> from ...^
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22:44:00  <Sleepie> so it depends if you are playing or creating maps
22:45:25  <Sleepie> for scenario editor it is about 300px to get the toggle button up
22:47:41  <planetmaker> yes. Toolbars are different
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22:52:49  <Sleepie> And no statusbar in scenario editor
22:56:22  * Sleepie have a break for a smoke
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23:41:49  <Sleepie> planetmaker: http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_interface#Special <- Detail page will follow later, I'm too tired now ;)
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