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Log for #openttd on 18th August 2012:
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00:00:26  <Melkyore> Is there a way to track company progress in a multiplayer game from outside the server?
00:00:48  <Mazur> Define progress?
00:00:50  <Melkyore> For example, a php script queries the server for income, expenditure, etc
00:01:28  <Mazur> Sort of.
00:01:39  <Melkyore> ?
00:01:51  <Melkyore> It's unexplored territory?
00:01:59  <Mazur> You can attach a script or something to the console.
00:02:36  <Melkyore> The idea is that it writes to a sort of log file?
00:02:41  <Mazur> Yes.
00:02:57  <Melkyore> Wow
00:02:57  <Mazur> by regularly issuing a console query.
00:03:05  <Mazur> !rcon companies
00:03:06  *** Mazur was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
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00:03:13  <Melkyore> ...
00:03:16  <Melkyore> oh
00:03:38  <Asteconn> ?
00:03:42  <Asteconn> That was quite random
00:04:14  <Melkyore> Unfortunately, the data returned by executing "companies" in the console is very bare
00:04:20  <Mazur> If I did that on one of our game server IRC channels, a bot would relay hte command to the game and the output back into the channel.
00:04:29  <Melkyore> Aah
00:05:17  <Mazur> The bots also issue similar command every 5 minutes or so and log the output.
00:06:11  <Mazur> But indeed the companies command gives sparse information, which is why I said "sort of".
00:06:41  <Mazur> It gives the info we desire, though, so none has thought to expand it.
00:06:59  <Melkyore> That is rather unfortunate
00:07:03  <michi_cc> Melkyore: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/docs/admin_network.txt
00:07:39  <Melkyore> oh, my
00:08:51  <Melkyore> Yes, this is excellent
00:08:57  <Melkyore> Thank you very much
00:09:12  <Melkyore> Mazur and michi_cc
00:09:36  <Melkyore> Farewell
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00:10:30  <Mazur> bookmarked.
00:29:20  <Asteconn> So why don't you play with breakdowns?
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00:54:44  <Wakou> So how do I delete all and regress?
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01:01:14  <Wolf01> 'night all
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01:11:10  <Wakou> Goodnight Mr Wolf
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02:00:14  <Mazur> Because breakdowns only add annoyance and interrupt an otherwise well build network.
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07:55:31  <andythenorth> moin
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08:06:14  <andythenorth> 22% of windows downloaded :/
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08:08:45  <Kjetil_> all of them !?
08:08:59  <andythenorth> just #7
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08:58:57  <Alberth> moin
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09:53:43  <Asteconn> Dia duit ar maidín! As they say in Ireland
10:10:40  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound particularly irish to me
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10:13:23  <Asteconn> It's Gaelic /nod
10:13:50  <Asteconn> I can speak a very little of the language. Enough at least to introduce myself and comment on how rubbish the weather is
10:21:32  <Eddi|zuHause> is that some screwed up version of my fair lady? :)
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10:24:18  <Asteconn> No lol
10:24:34  <Asteconn> For example! [incoming Gaelic]
10:26:36  <Asteconn> Dia daoibh ar maidín a chairde! Richard is ainm duit, agus tá mé mo chónaí sa Roícht Aontaithe ^^
10:26:56  <Asteconn> ^is anim dom even
10:26:58  <Asteconn> Bugger ^^;
10:27:07  <Asteconn> I'm hardly fluent mind you
10:27:25  <Asteconn> But it's often enough to impress Irish women as a conversation starter :D
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10:29:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i think this is a good time to point towards the topic, though :)
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10:30:22  <Asteconn> Indeedy. And that's why I'm keeping it to a minimum
10:30:41  <Asteconn> But you seemed at least partly interested, and noone else is being interrupted ^^
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10:42:38  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: primary industry closure; desirable: yes / no / under certain conditions?
10:43:06  <Eddi|zuHause> depends
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10:47:30  <Asteconn> That sounds likea 'under certain conditions' to me =2
10:47:32  <Asteconn> =3
10:47:46  <Asteconn> I really need a new favourite emoticon
10:48:33  <andythenorth> =m
10:49:46  <Asteconn> o.ÃŽ Interesting. I will consider this development
10:50:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm running out of old games to play...
10:50:26  <Eddi|zuHause> and the one i want to play i can't find the CD of...
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11:11:29  <Alberth> hi andy, eddi, and Asteconn
11:11:57  <Alberth> andythenorth: what do I hear now, closing industries is acceptable? :)
11:12:15  <Asteconn> Eddi|zuHause: You should play I-War
11:12:26  <Asteconn> Greetings Alberth
11:13:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it was always acceptable. it was just one of those andy-isms where "i don't like behaviour X" results in "let's do the extreme opposite"
11:14:12  <Terkhen> hello
11:14:31  <Eddi|zuHause> instead of fine-tuning X
11:15:00  <Alberth> hello Terkhen
11:15:07  <Alberth> :)
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11:21:33  <Terkhen> this is my last day of vacations :(
11:22:21  <Eddi|zuHause> tomorrow is sunday
11:22:39  <andythenorth> meh
11:23:07  <andythenorth> I spent several weekends trying to improve FIRS closing, until frosch123 pointed out I was wasting my life ;)
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11:24:29  <Alberth> speaking of the devil :p     hi frosch
11:24:55  <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: I'm not going to call 5 hours of driving and unpacking everything a vacation day
11:25:02  <frosch123> mmwhahaha!
11:25:06  <frosch123> hai albert :)
11:25:07  <Terkhen> hi frosch123 :)
11:26:02  <Alberth> frosch123: no worries, your name was used in a positive way, namely rescueing andys life
11:26:20  <frosch123> that's what i was worried about :p
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11:28:33  <frosch123> hmm, even with the logs i miss context :s
11:33:18  <andythenorth> was wrt industry closing
11:33:29  <andythenorth> and the stupidity of trying to solve it in grf :P
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12:12:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r24479 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/npf.cpp: -Fix: Trains were unable to reverse in stations when using NPF.
12:12:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r24480 /trunk/src/ship_cmd.cpp: -Doc: Doxygenize ChooseShipTrack().
12:13:08  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r24481 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Feature [FS#5127]: Make the pathfinder decide whether ships shall leave depots towards north or south.
12:13:26  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r24482 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp saveload/town_sl.cpp): -Fix [FS#5232] (r24180): Do not call RebuildSubsidisedSourceAndDestinationCache() before subsidy savegame conversion is finished.
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12:32:20  <Asteconn> Gentlemen - might I peruse your opinion on the matter of routing rail lines and station orientation? I have here [http://snag.gy/DXbQP.jpg] some towns that I wish to connect. I'm thinking of running a mainline from Garswood > Winchfield > Balmossie > eventually off the left side of the map to some more cities, with a spur following the small river from Winchfield to Cleland green, calling at...
12:32:22  <Asteconn> ...all of the towns on the way. Especially at Winchfield, I'm unsure how to angle the station so that I can get it relatively close to the centre of the town, but still have it running as a through station rather than a terminus at the bottom of a T?
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12:38:51  <frosch123> maybe drop balmossie and rather go east north from winchfield
12:39:04  <frosch123> towards canterbury shirlay swinton cleland
12:39:34  <frosch123> in winchfield likely the stations fits best on NW
12:39:42  <frosch123> with some bus feeders inside the town and over the bridge
12:39:44  <Asteconn> Yeah =] I was going to go that direction on the branch line
12:40:28  <Asteconn> But yes I see what you mean there
12:41:06  <Asteconn> I was thinking about putting the station at NW, although there would be quite a tight curve going inwards
12:41:19  <Asteconn> ^NW next to the river
12:47:33  <Asteconn> What's the best way to ensure that trains are consistently mostly-full, without degrading the rating of the station?
12:50:22  <frosch123> set loading time to a few days
12:50:26  <frosch123> maybe 3
12:50:37  <frosch123> (i.e. timetable only the loading, not the travel)
12:50:49  <frosch123> (don't set loading times for crowded stations)
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12:51:46  <Asteconn> glx uses IPv6 :D
12:51:56  <Asteconn> Ah yes =] I do that already
12:52:06  <Asteconn> But I've never not-timetabled busy stations
12:55:37  <frosch123> you should timetable non-busy stations when fullload is no option
12:55:39  <frosch123> :)
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12:58:32  <Alberth> hi
12:58:38  <Wolf01> hello o/
12:59:33  <Asteconn> Ahh ^^
12:59:43  <Asteconn> Also, greetings Wolf01
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13:29:06  <andythenorth> so primary closing - what conditions trigger closure?
13:31:27  <Alberth> in a sane environment?
13:32:01  <Alberth> age, use, number present versus wanted count, and some random
13:32:09  <andythenorth> in a sane environment
13:32:27  <andythenorth> with a little more care / balance than just 'production multiplier is 4 or less'
13:33:03  <Alberth> newgrf is in control of the production multiplier, right?
13:37:37  <andythenorth> yup
13:37:53  <andythenorth> I have everything I need to control the internals of closure
13:38:07  <andythenorth> but very little to decide 'is it good for gameplay?' (or not)
13:38:27  <andythenorth> I can count the number of instances of the type and such
13:38:39  <andythenorth> but not density, nor likelihood of rebuilding elsewhere etc
13:39:02  <andythenorth> ah
13:39:06  <andythenorth> density
13:39:12  <andythenorth> that's an interesting aspect
13:46:00  <V453000> the "send all vehicles for servicing" order from group means the same like ctrl+clicked send to depot for all vehicles in the group, right?
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13:53:02  <V453000> andy: found some issue with recycling depot, the cargoes it produces seem to be rather random :d
13:54:50  <V453000> I think manuf. supplies / farm supplies is best option
13:56:49  <V453000> andythenorth: ^
13:57:14  <frosch123> V453000: i would think so (wrt, depot stuff)
13:57:43  <V453000> now it made even chemicals :d
14:01:52  <V453000> from the side of openttd, I think autoreplacing works good as it is, with one exception - when you want to autoreplace twice in quick succession, soon enough so train do not want to service yet. I think making the order "send trains for servicing" could work better, like instead of send the train directly to depot, make all trains demand servicing when they spot a depot, like with normal servicing. This would become a lot more handy not only wi
14:02:44  <V453000> after all, not even all trains on the map have to see a path to a depot at any time, those would be unaffected by the current mass command
14:03:07  <V453000> if it just resets their service timer to "want service", it would work a lot more flexibly
14:03:14  <V453000> is anything like that viable?
14:07:12  <frosch123> doesn't it already behave like that?
14:07:44  <frosch123> (vehicles trying to service when autoreplace is active, even if breakdowns are disabled)
14:08:06  <V453000> yes, but you cant make them do that twice in quick succession
14:08:16  <V453000> you just have to wait for the next time for servicing
14:09:04  <V453000> and the current order itself is a bit unuseful, sending all trains straight to depot is quite dangerous for every network
14:13:32  <frosch123> you don't want to do that for all trains :p
14:13:38  <frosch123> just one group or station
14:13:45  <V453000> even then
14:14:01  <V453000> if you have a terminus station anywhere on the route of that group, it will work really badly
14:14:50  <V453000> but if their servicing would be required the next time they meet a depot, they would just visit the depot after the terminus, for example
14:15:29  <andythenorth> recycling plant produces random cargos
14:15:32  <V453000> which is really unconvenient because when you order all of the group to service, you wan them to do that
14:15:50  <V453000> andythenorth: that is intended? :o
14:22:11  <frosch123> i don't think resetting the service time when changing autoreplace is actually desired
14:22:25  <frosch123> vehicles shall not all go to depot immediately
14:22:40  <frosch123> the service intervall spreads them over the time
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14:26:09  <V453000> sure, in normal cases
14:26:14  <V453000> but if you give them an order?
14:26:55  <V453000> that is what happens, now but with the difference that it breaks the network as they usually all go to one depot that they saw closes when given the command, and the trains which do not see a depot at that time are ignored by the command
14:27:14  <andythenorth> V453000: yes, intended ;)
14:28:17  <V453000> andythenorth: :(
14:29:03  <frosch123> V453000: ah, you mean a third entry in the drop down
14:29:22  <frosch123> sent to depot/send to servicing  immediately/schedule servicing
14:29:45  <frosch123> i thought you wanted to change the default behaviour without manual interaction
14:30:44  <V453000> nono, just that one command in the dropdown
14:31:17  <V453000> dont know about send to depot, but send to servicing would be a lot better that way
14:31:51  <andythenorth> V453000: those industries serve no gameplay purpose except as a destination for recyclables
14:31:58  <andythenorth> i.e. they don't fit into any other chain
14:32:04  <andythenorth> so they just produce random cargos
14:32:17  <V453000> doesnt matter they produce something, they can be useful
14:32:45  <V453000> and if you want to use them in any way, and fund them for yourself, it is basically impossible to guess what they will produce; you cant plan with that :/
14:33:04  <andythenorth> yes
14:33:07  <andythenorth> evilness
14:33:34  <andythenorth> gtg
14:33:43  <andythenorth> but post in FIRS forum thread if you can see how to solve them
14:33:45  <Asteconn> You know, two things that annoy me mildly presently - Firstly that I cannot swap mail and passenger wagons without doing it manually, and secondly that I wagon swaps don't add carriages if the train becomes too short
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14:40:57  <frosch123> hmm, google favicon changed
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16:18:18  <drush> frosch123 like a long time ago
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17:16:10  <andythenorth> boo
17:24:35  <andythenorth> hmm
17:24:40  <andythenorth> I have a very special request
17:24:57  <andythenorth> I would like a new var similar to var 67 etc
17:25:15  <andythenorth> parameter is another industry type
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17:25:44  <andythenorth> returns the count of type instances for which there is an unbroken water route from current tile
17:26:00  <andythenorth> I could do it in newgrf with a fricking insane spiral tile check
17:26:08  <andythenorth> but the pain would be incredible :)
17:26:18  <andythenorth> frosch123: ^ ?
17:27:12  <Yexo> unbroking water route -> pathfinding -> too expensive
17:27:18  <Yexo> s/ing/en/
17:27:25  <frosch123> yeah, just wanted to say that :)
17:27:29  <andythenorth> I figure that might be the answer
17:28:01  <andythenorth> going in straight lines is insufficient I guess
17:29:02  <andythenorth> another request: deterministic order for placing industries at map gen
17:29:05  <andythenorth> probly also a no
17:29:11  * andythenorth is trying to improve fishing harbours
17:29:37  <Yexo> indeed, also definitely a no. a newgrf should not depend on that order
17:30:34  <andythenorth> I wonder if I should remove the fishing harbour
17:30:45  <andythenorth> it causes support issues
17:31:41  <andythenorth> - it's hard to place manually
17:31:47  <andythenorth> - it isn't built reliably by map gen
17:32:03  <andythenorth> - when it is built, the location is often nonsense wrt fishing grounds
17:32:51  * andythenorth experiments
17:36:46  <andythenorth> pop quiz, pick one answer
17:37:03  <andythenorth> "Fishing harbours should locate near towns, it looks nicer"
17:37:24  <andythenorth> "Fishing harbours should locate anywhere, usually more can be built this way"
17:37:29  <andythenorth> ??
17:37:38  <masch_> the first one!
17:37:43  *** masch_ is now known as masch
17:38:01  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: your 2 €cents?
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17:59:04  <andythenorth> flat docks :(
18:04:13  <Alberth> you ran out of dock cranes?
18:04:43  <andythenorth> I ran out of slopes :P
18:04:47  <andythenorth> all slopes used up :P
18:09:50  <Alberth> you must have played too many mountanuous games :p
18:15:12  <andythenorth> seriously, flat docks :P
18:15:30  <andythenorth> or do we have to wait for New Stations?
18:15:34  <andythenorth> which is a unicorn :P
18:15:55  <andythenorth> also I have made the game enjoyable again
18:16:16  <andythenorth> the secret is 800x500 resolution
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18:18:43  <Alberth> I used your FISH to have a fun game
18:19:16  <Alberth> hmm, you made a new version didn't you? Must try that too :p
18:19:29  <V453000> andythenorth: I wouldnt be against fishing harbours anywhere
18:19:34  <V453000> near towns is really low probability
18:19:57  <V453000> esp. if you use lower town amount
18:21:48  <andythenorth> V453000: I'm thinking it's a worthwhile change
18:22:01  <V453000> for sure
18:22:10  <V453000> also fishing grounds would need to grow
18:22:37  <V453000> the fishing chain is basically useless atm
18:23:09  <andythenorth> :o
18:23:17  <andythenorth> fishing chain is the standard money maker at the start
18:24:33  <V453000> the other cargoes are good enough
18:24:47  <V453000> and fish production is so low that oil is a lot more worth it
18:25:04  <V453000> if you make it well, you have oil growing since first year of service
18:25:17  <V453000> reaching huge productions very soon
18:28:43  <V453000> come have a look how its done on our stable server :) there is firs atm
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18:40:20  <andythenorth> why aren't my farms growing :(
18:40:25  <andythenorth> I'm dumping in FMSP
18:41:32  <V453000> my farms grow well :)
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19:33:50  <andythenorth> seriously, flat docks :P
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20:02:28  <Rubidium> interesting idea, merging houses and docks. Is that like merging houses and roads?
20:05:06  <andythenorth> merge everything :P
20:05:11  <andythenorth> also, I need a 4 track tramway
20:05:12  <andythenorth> :P
20:05:17  <andythenorth> this game has no trains yet
20:05:50  <frosch123> can you transport an entire dock on a ship?
20:06:24  <frosch123> hmm, i guess you cannot transport an airport in a plane
20:06:59  <andythenorth> http://gcaptain.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/heavy-lift-ship-mega-cranes.jpg
20:07:21  <Rubidium> ofcourse you can. An aircraft is hundreds of kilometers long, an airport at most 100-120 meters across
20:08:47  <andythenorth> hmm
20:08:53  <frosch123> luckily different scales are no problem in ottd
20:09:02  <andythenorth> suddenly I'm printing money
20:09:23  <andythenorth> ah
20:09:24  <andythenorth> ships :P
20:09:30  <andythenorth> cost a lot to buy
20:09:34  <andythenorth> make a lot of money
20:09:40  <andythenorth> they're like the aircraft of 1895
20:12:13  <andythenorth> it's a shame OS X has to fade full screen ottd in and out
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20:13:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24483 /trunk/src/lang/dutch.txt: -Fix: remove ZERO WIDTH SPACE character from Dutch strings causing the fallback font to be chosen over the sprite font
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20:14:36  <andythenorth> also
20:14:37  <andythenorth> farms suck
20:14:45  <andythenorth> this idea of two output cargos is stupid
20:15:22  <SpComb> agreed, there should be at least three
20:15:37  <frosch123> "zero width space"? was that used intentionally?
20:18:13  <Rubidium> I think they copied it from somewhere
20:18:45  <Rubidium> as it was in the same place in both strings, and there were two per string
20:20:08  <Alberth> isn't that used as BOM ?
20:20:21  <Rubidium> not that I know of
20:28:12  <TinoDidriksen> Yes it is
20:30:24  <frosch123> where?
20:33:42  <frosch123> ah, non-breaking zero-width space is a bom
20:33:48  <frosch123> but, breaking zero-width space is not
20:34:49  <andythenorth> meh
20:34:53  <andythenorth> could use some trains right now
20:34:58  <andythenorth> 7 years until I get any :P
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20:45:50  <andythenorth> is this pipelines grf any good?
20:45:55  * andythenorth needs to move some oil :P
21:00:06  <andythenorth> did a ship pf bug get fixed?
21:00:17  <andythenorth> I just pulled and my ships are no longer being stupid
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21:03:18  <Alberth> s/no longer/less/
21:03:31  <Alberth> frosch fixed a few ship bugs indeed :)
21:04:28  <frosch123> andythenorth: when leaving depots?
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21:13:14  <andythenorth> yup
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21:41:32  <Alberth> good night
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21:54:55  <Terkhen> good night
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22:18:47  <drac_boy> hi
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22:33:59  <frosch123> night
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