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Log for #openttd on 22nd September 2012:
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06:38:36  <Terkhen> good morning
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06:41:15  <Terkhen> Supercheese: I did not notice the bug you mention, I just used your GRF to upload some screenshots... blind luck I guess :P
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06:57:18  <Supercheese> Yes, I suspect it was inadvertent
06:57:35  <Supercheese> your screenshot illustrated it quite nicely nonetheless
06:58:25  <Supercheese> The refit costs were being incorrectly rounded, such that it was possible that, when refiting the victoria/adtrans tubes to get free money by "purchasing" and then "selling" carriages
06:58:37  <Supercheese> via refit, since the prices were unequal
06:59:45  <Terkhen> I see :)
07:01:30  <Terkhen> let's see if I can overcome my patcher's block this weekend
07:02:35  <Supercheese> :)
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09:07:11  <Alberth> moin
09:07:31  <Terkhen> hi Alberth
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09:39:42  <planetmaker> hello Alberth
09:39:54  <Alberth> hi planetmaker
09:40:35  <Alberth> Luckily I don't have to write a patch :)
09:41:57  <planetmaker> :D
09:42:04  <planetmaker> you should be able to op yourself
09:43:38  <Alberth> when you cannot send a mesage to dorpsgek in the channel?
09:44:30  <Terkhen> you can send the messages on private too
09:46:01  <Alberth> it wasn't commenting on anything I sent to it
09:46:58  <planetmaker> chanserv should work as last resort
09:47:49  <Terkhen> it also does not seem to be voicing people properly on join
09:47:59  <Terkhen> (see eddi for example)
09:48:19  <Rubidium> chanserv only does that when the user is authenticated before the join
09:48:40  <Rubidium> if the user doesn't authenticate with chanserv, it won't auto-voice/op
09:49:02  <Rubidium> that's why I'm no op right now in here
09:49:46  <Terkhen> oh, I see
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09:50:09  <planetmaker> you don't authenticate?
09:50:55  <Rubidium> yeah
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09:56:55  <Wolf01> 'mornink
09:56:59  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
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10:17:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not registered with chanserv
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10:33:39  <planetmaker> I thought so. I wonder though why not ;-)
10:33:50  <planetmaker> anyone could kinda impersonate you this way
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10:38:09  <Eddi|zuHause> he could take on my nickname, but i doubt he could properly copy my personality :p
10:38:35  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i haven't had any problems in the last 6 years
10:41:22  <NGC3982> Afternoon, animals.
10:41:48  <NGC3982> Bah, I wish I had my laptop with me
10:42:23  * NGC3982 is a bit tired of traveling by train.
10:42:43  <Zuu> yea, sometimes it get too much train trips
10:43:03  <Zuu> having a laptop is usually a good idea to kill the 4 hours.
10:43:38  <bolli> Right... This is a weird issue I've gained....
10:44:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it's really weird, people can spend hours watching trains from the outside, but being inside a train is a pain...
10:44:17  <bolli> Openttd can't listen to the master port, but Other things can...
10:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause> bolli: two programs cannot listen to the same port at the same time
10:45:50  <bolli> I know. I;m not trying at the same time
10:46:13  <Eddi|zuHause> bolli: then the actual console output might be helpful
10:46:26  <bolli> I've written a bit of code to test it that listens to the port, and that works
10:47:05  <bolli> https://gist.github.com/3765811
10:47:27  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I have the reverse experience, I can spend hours watching the environment passing by from within a train, but looking at trains passing by for hours wouldn't attract me
10:49:32  <Eddi|zuHause> bolli: looks like a firewall/router problem, no problem reserving the actual port (the first few lines)
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10:51:47  <planetmaker> bolli, possibly the port is cleared for one protocol, but not for UDP
10:51:59  <planetmaker> or for TCP. both is needed
10:52:01  <planetmaker> @ports
10:52:01  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
10:52:30  <planetmaker> hm, we should add the admin port there, 3977 :-)
10:52:51  <bolli> I've checked, theres no firewall issue, and its not got a limiting router...
10:53:14  <bolli> And how do I check the port for protocol?
10:53:32  <planetmaker> router settings...
10:53:50  <planetmaker> my router/modem has settings for each port where I can set the allowed protocol types
10:54:04  <planetmaker> and whether in- or outgoing or both
10:54:45  <bolli>  This is running on a VPS, so It doesn't have a router/modem...
10:54:52  <Alberth> planetmaker: your zbuild may be out of date :)   city lights are placed weird
10:55:04  <planetmaker> Alberth, yes. I just build tip :-)
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11:01:34  <planetmaker> hm... sucks. OpenTTD doesn't offer me a window size different from 3860x1200 :S
11:01:47  <planetmaker> only editing cfg helps
11:01:57  <TrueBrain> I would blame the developers of that game
11:01:59  <TrueBrain> sounds terrible :D
11:02:02  <Terkhen> huge :O
11:02:08  <planetmaker> yes, very much, truebrain
11:02:18  <planetmaker> those evil ones. How dare they?
11:02:27  <planetmaker> Terkhen, that's full screen :-)
11:02:29  <Terkhen> drop them a bug report, if you are lucky it will get solved in a few years
11:02:43  <TrueBrain> OSX? Yeah, years is an acceptable timeframe :)
11:02:49  <planetmaker> nope... debian
11:03:05  <Terkhen> TrueBrain: my timeframe was meant for a linux issue ^
11:03:11  <TrueBrain> bolli: if you get that error, it means the masterserver cannot talk to you. so make sure UDP packets leave your system, and return (tcpdump is your friend)
11:03:12  <Terkhen> if it is OSX... no idea :P
11:03:45  <Alberth> Terkhen: I doubt it would be any faster :)
11:03:55  <TrueBrain> bolli: I retract my suggestion, and I am going to change it ..
11:04:05  <TrueBrain> bolli: please bind on sane IPs. 0.0.0.2 doesnt sound really sane to me
11:04:19  <planetmaker> ho, lol
11:04:25  <bolli> I spotted that, but i have no idea why its doing it....
11:04:30  <planetmaker> sounds like a good find, TrueBrain  :-)
11:04:35  <bolli> 0.0.0.2 is not referenced anywhere...
11:04:38  <TrueBrain> because either it is your main IP, or you explicitly told it to bind there :)
11:05:06  <TrueBrain> just force the bind to 0.0.0.0 or something
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11:05:29  <bolli> Ok... Next question: how? :p
11:05:34  <TrueBrain> your server most likely does work, but the masterserver only adds servers which he can reach on the IP they say they are on :)
11:06:07  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD has a 'bind' value
11:06:33  <TrueBrain> I am guessing server_bind_ip in the config
11:07:03  <TrueBrain> (under the [network] section ofc)
11:07:17  <bolli> no, but it has [server_bind_addresses]
11:07:34  <TrueBrain> ah, yes, we have multiple binds these days :)
11:07:40  <TrueBrain> (only a few years :P)
11:08:28  <bolli> oh dear :|
11:08:41  <bolli> I forgot the -D on the end - Putty didn't like that :|
11:09:15  <bolli> So I have coloured symbols flying around the screen...
11:10:16  <bolli> There we go :)
11:10:20  <bolli> Now works :)
11:10:25  <bolli> Thanks TrueBrain
11:10:33  <TrueBrain> np
11:10:55  <TrueBrain> I am guessing your host is running openVZ or something like that
11:11:56  <bolli> nope, There was some garbage in the openttd.cfg
11:12:03  <planetmaker> cool. zbase already has 32bpp bulk wagons. or at least coal
11:12:04  <TrueBrain> then it fails too yes :D
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11:22:22  <Alberth> hi andy
11:22:25  <andythenorth> hai
11:22:42  <andythenorth> anyone played FIRS with new supplies mechanic?
11:23:23  <Zuu> zBase suggests that I should finnish my started work to allow users to specify external commands that OTTDAU should execute to allow eg. fetching zBase :-)
11:24:22  <Alberth> not sure that's worth the trouble, it's a one-time download
11:24:31  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
11:24:53  <andythenorth> lo Terkhen
11:25:06  <Alberth> andythenorth: I started but then I realized I never played with the old mechanic, so I am useless for comparing them :)
11:31:46  * andythenorth ponders
11:31:58  <andythenorth> base industry production should be specified by game
11:32:32  <andythenorth> not by newgrf
11:32:48  <andythenorth> maybe FIRS should be changed
11:33:10  <Yexo> isn't it specified by the game by default?
11:33:12  <andythenorth> yes
11:33:16  <andythenorth> where's frosch? :P
11:33:30  <andythenorth> frosch's view is that smooth economy is broken
11:36:10  <Alberth> wasn't it mostly faked?
11:36:21  <Alberth> I don't remember precisely
11:40:44  <andythenorth> it's one of the murkier bits of industry code :P
11:41:50  <andythenorth> does 'smooth economy' simply cause the changes to be monthly?
11:42:24  <andythenorth> does it also affect frequency of random prod. change?
11:42:33  * andythenorth should read and see :P
11:42:48  <Alberth> I cannot answer those questions
11:43:19  <Terkhen> I don't know enough about the economy to answer either :)
11:43:26  <Terkhen> bbl
11:43:32  <Alberth> bye Terkhen
11:44:58  <andythenorth> industry_cmd.cpp knows
11:46:03  <andythenorth> if (you can be bothered to read all the if statements) { then you'll understand; };
11:46:33  <andythenorth> smooth economy vs. non-smooth is a pile of cruft
11:50:12  <Alberth> do we have code that isn't? :)
11:50:50  <andythenorth> yes
11:50:53  <andythenorth> I've seen it
11:51:04  <andythenorth> some of the vehicle movement code for example
11:51:06  <andythenorth> or railtype code
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11:56:16  <Lassikki> If a plane lands to airport and crashes, how i clean the mess?
11:56:49  <Alberth> just wait
11:57:01  <Lassikki> How long?
11:57:25  <andythenorth> maybe I should offer a github bounty to fix economy
11:57:26  <Alberth> no idea tbh, but the plane disappears after some time
12:01:47  <Zuu> Lassikki: 1-3 ingame months I think
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12:46:33  <andythenorth> so Eddi|zuHause has a menu patch somewhere http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3233/FISH_2_buy_menu.png
12:46:41  <andythenorth> can it be shipped in trunk?
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13:24:59  <Zuu> Oh, wasn't close airport included before 1.2 was branched. Good that I found out before throwing out the alternative method in CluelessPlus already :-)
13:25:57  <Terkhen> :)
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13:27:55  <Zuu> The airport operation in CluelessPlus is not as solid as I want it to be. Currently it "loses" airports sometimes that stay around. I also have found airplanes that indicate in their name that the AI have decided to close down the connection but the aircraft operate just as normal for several years.
13:28:50  <planetmaker> :-)
13:29:06  <planetmaker> so cluelessplus sometimes is extra clueless about its operation? ;-)
13:29:37  <Alberth> s/extra/plus/
13:29:53  <Zuu> planetmaker:  yep :-)
13:30:33  <Zuu> Although that is part of its name, I like it to show a solid behaviour.
13:31:16  <planetmaker> :-) Of course
13:31:34  <Zuu> Eg. sort of NoAI. A good AI interface even if the name indicates something else :-p
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15:47:17  <fjb> Moin.
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15:53:12  <Alberth> moin
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16:06:27  <andythenorth> can I rely on bananas min. compatible openttd version?
16:06:32  <andythenorth> or do I have to add a check to grf?
16:07:17  <Terkhen> someone could download your grf from the devzone bundles directly and try to load it in... 0.7.0 for example
16:08:04  <andythenorth> [shrug]
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16:16:25  <andythenorth> I'm just looking for an easy way to make test grfs available to MP coop games :)
16:19:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: terkhen * r24544 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#5297]: Do not show profit from refits as cost in the refit window.
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16:42:41  <Zuu> andythenorth: additionally, someone could have several OpenTTD versions that use the same shared storage area for downloaded content.
16:43:06  <Zuu> Eg. they may have both a nightly version and 1.2.x
16:46:11  <andythenorth> I'm going to just do this anyway ;)
16:46:53  <andythenorth> FISH 2 alpha on bananas
16:47:42  <andythenorth> needs nightly > 24530
16:47:55  <andythenorth> which is a silly hack to solve the problem, but meh
16:51:25  <planetmaker> <Terkhen> someone could download your grf from the devzone bundles directly and try to load it in... 0.7.0 for example <-- sure. But grf v8 / container v2 will fail before any version check anyway
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16:52:38  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Features?
16:53:03  <andythenorth> more ships, auto-refit, variable speeds, changed costs etc
16:53:05  <andythenorth> meh
16:53:09  * FLHerne likes features :-)
16:53:09  <andythenorth> blah etc
16:53:20  <Terkhen> planetmaker: I assumed that the version checks would still be run :P
16:53:31  <andythenorth> don't expect me not to break your savegames with FISH 2 pre-release versions ;)
16:53:35  <FLHerne> Have you made the variations less identical yet? :P
16:53:47  <andythenorth> only in the way that they never were anyway :P
16:54:24  <FLHerne> Most of them are, except the bow, the stern and sometimes a bit in the middle :P
16:55:05  <andythenorth> shrug
16:55:19  <andythenorth> seen any real ships ever?
16:55:30  <FLHerne> andythenorth: A few :P
16:55:41  <andythenorth> pretty samey
16:56:04  <FLHerne> You could do them with various fake-real liveries to make them a bit different ;-)
16:57:17  <andythenorth> I fail to see the issue o_O http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3234/eh_.png
16:57:25  <andythenorth> if they are same, I am blind :P
16:57:56  <FLHerne> Stornoway and Maddalena in that one
16:58:05  <andythenorth> one's long, one's short
16:58:10  <FLHerne> The big cargo ships are worse though :P
16:58:51  *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-153-66.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:58:54  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Yes, but the Stornoway just looks like a Maddalena with the middle cut out :P
16:59:04  <andythenorth> it is
16:59:23  <FLHerne> Exactly :P
16:59:30  <andythenorth> and the problem is?
16:59:55  <andythenorth> paint the hull of one of them white if you want
17:00:02  <FLHerne> andythenorth: It looks ugly :P
17:00:14  <andythenorth> make the cabins cc, hull white
17:00:16  * FLHerne likes excessive variety ;-)
17:00:22  <andythenorth> have a ball - it takes about 2 days to paint one
17:00:47  <andythenorth> tbh, I am only playing GS now, and I don't even look at the graphics now
17:00:54  <andythenorth> all I care about is capacity and speed
17:00:55  <FLHerne> Can't that Pixa thing recolour things for you? :P
17:01:05  <andythenorth> we might as well just coloured boxes
17:01:09  * FLHerne is still drawing groundtiles in odd moments :P
17:01:10  <andythenorth> * use
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17:45:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24545 /trunk/src/lang/ (english_US.txt russian.txt ukrainian.txt):
17:45:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 4 changes by Rubidium
17:45:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 4 changes by edd_k
17:45:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 357 changes by edd_k
17:47:23  * Terkhen forgot to translate his own patch as usual
17:53:02  <Alberth> tomorrow is another day :)
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18:03:33  <bolli> Out of asking, is there a simple way to replace the diesel fumes animation?
18:03:48  <bolli> So I can have a class 70 travelling around on fire...
18:04:43  <Alberth> smokes are not easily replacable afaik
18:05:34  <Yexo> they're as easy (or hard) to replace as any other static sprite: you have to create a newgrf to do it
18:06:05  <bolli> ok, I'll have a play with it :)
18:06:24  <Terkhen> note that you will replace smoke from all vehicles
18:06:38  <bolli> yeah, I suspected that...
18:07:00  <Yexo> you could replace one vehicle with custom graphics that include the fire you want, and then disable smoke
18:10:14  <andythenorth> bolli: please don't discuss smoke :P
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18:49:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: terkhen * r24546 /trunk/src/lang/ (47 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r24544): Change all other languages too.
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19:12:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24547 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Add [FS#5263]: Separate the 'available vehicles' from the other buttons in the group gui (Juanjo).
19:14:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24548 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Add: Extra group line in the group gui, if possible (Juanjo).
19:15:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24549 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove the hard-coded sprite button sizes in the group gui (Juanjo).
19:16:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24550 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove unused panel widget in the group gui (Juanjo).
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19:33:58  <Supercheese> So does the CIA commit-bot only post in #ottd and not #openttd.dev ?
19:34:05  <Supercheese> #openttd * rather
19:36:04  <Yexo> yes
19:36:16  <Yexo> if you want the commits without any other noise join #openttd.notice
19:37:20  <Supercheese> I was just wondering :) thanks for the link, though I'd rather use the RSS (http://cia.vc/stats/project/OpenTTD)
19:39:10  <Supercheese> although my RSS watched list is bloating to monstrous proportions
19:39:25  <Supercheese> too many games, webcomics, and artist feeds
19:39:42  <Supercheese> and musicians' feeds
19:39:43  <Alberth> many people suffer from newseritis
19:39:59  <Alberth> teribly afraid that they miss something :)
19:40:05  <Supercheese> I've kept myself to only 2 twitter feeds, though
19:40:14  <Supercheese> and they post extremely infrequently
19:40:35  * FLHerne is finding #openttd.dev interesting to spectate :-)
19:41:01  <Supercheese> Let's see, I have... 4 OTTD related RSS feeds :)
19:41:25  <Alberth> FLHerne: it is?  it's mostly just technical details babble
19:41:57  * Supercheese enjoys technnicalbabble, when he can understand at least half of it ;)
19:42:02  * FLHerne likes technical details :-)
19:42:13  <Alberth> Supercheese: so many?  What else do you have than commits and news?
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19:42:39  <Supercheese> Main page news (major releases etc), the Commit feed, and 2 wiki recent-changes feeds
19:42:44  <Supercheese> GRFSpecs wiki and TTWiki
19:43:00  <Alberth> oh, wikis, of course :)
19:43:03  <Supercheese> I'm not sure if I can unify those last two
19:43:11  <Supercheese> easier just to leave them separate
19:43:54  <Supercheese> the main OTTD wiki changes feed is too frequent to watch :P
19:44:31  <Alberth> mainly translations, or are there also other changes there?
19:44:35  <Supercheese> translations yeah
19:44:55  * Supercheese isn't that interested in Polish translation activity :P
19:45:03  <Supercheese> glad it's happening, of course
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19:45:50  <Alberth> no idea how many people read the translations
19:46:38  <Supercheese> Well, the prevailing philosophy on the Internet is more content, more content, more content -- as long as it's relevant, it matters not whether people actually read it
19:46:40  <Supercheese> :P
19:47:16  <Alberth> :)
19:47:32  <Supercheese> Always nice to be used someday, of course
19:50:51  <Terkhen> wikis can be quite spammy
19:51:13  <Terkhen> I used to follow the newgrf specs wiki RSS feed when we were doing the conversion, but I removed it shortly after we finished
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19:58:32  <TruePika> The Windows builds of OTTD are SDL based, correct?
19:58:43  <Supercheese> New CHIPS version, now we need new FISH ;)
19:58:58  <TruePika> Supercheese: ...why you use ships?
19:59:13  <__ln__> TruePika: incorrect
19:59:15  <Supercheese> Why... not?
19:59:18  <Terkhen> ships are awesome :)
19:59:20  * Supercheese is confused
19:59:29  <TruePika> I've never used ships a lot
19:59:36  <Supercheese> You, sir, are missing out
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19:59:49  <Supercheese> the FISH-testing version with autorefit is amazing
19:59:50  <Terkhen> TruePika: : IIRC windows builds just use native functions
20:00:00  <TruePika> what are the Windows builds based off of for..what? really?
20:00:07  <TruePika> gah
20:00:24  <TruePika> trying to get the Steam overlay to work, it doesn't seem to like native functions
20:00:27  <Yexo> SDL might work too if you add WITH_SDL to the project defines
20:00:43  <TruePika> what draw method would it use?
20:00:48  <Terkhen> TruePika: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp
20:00:58  <Terkhen> in that same folder are all other video drivers
20:01:31  <Terkhen> I wonder what does OSX use
20:01:43  <TruePika> looks like SDL _might_ use surface
20:01:59  <Rubidium> about a different backend for each supported version
20:02:14  <__ln__> Terkhen: OSX uses native APIs.
20:02:27  <Terkhen> since you are planning something for steam, you might also want to plan ahead for both platforms supported currently by steam and their future linux platform
20:02:31  <Rubidium> although... one might consider nothing OSX-ish really supported
20:03:14  <TruePika> and I apparently know very little about SDL
20:03:18  <TruePika> <_<
20:05:47  <__ln__> one might consider nothing in OpenTTD is "really supported", as there's no guarantee that anyone would fix anything within some specified time once a problem is reported.
20:06:39  <TruePika> I just want to find a configuration that works with the overlay right now
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20:07:30  <andythenorth> silly old OS X
20:07:34  <__ln__> so the goal is OpenTTD on Steam, or what?
20:07:49  <andythenorth> Supercheese: you're using the FISH 2 from Bananas?  Or some other nightly?
20:07:50  <TruePika> the goal is the Steam overlay working with OpenTTD
20:08:02  <TruePika> OTTD would never be distributed over Steam :P
20:08:04  <Supercheese> I don't think I got mine from Bananas
20:08:29  <andythenorth> I added one today
20:08:43  <andythenorth> needs a recent ottd nightly (purely to limit the number of people getting it)
20:08:49  <__ln__> i was pretty sure it would never be distributed, that's why i asked
20:08:53  <Supercheese> New FISH and new CHIPS!  \o/
20:08:57  <TruePika> xD
20:08:59  <Supercheese> Huzzah
20:09:10  * Supercheese doesn't see it on bananas
20:09:17  <Supercheese> time to upgrade version
20:09:59  * TruePika presses Shift+Tab
20:10:00  <TruePika> nothing
20:10:05  <TruePika> (with default video)
20:10:22  <TruePika> Is SDL compiled into the Win64 stable build?
20:11:23  <__ln__> even though the windows version doesn't even use SDL?
20:11:33  <TruePika> I take that as a no
20:12:03  <andythenorth> Supercheese: needs r24530 or newer
20:12:03  <Yexo> as I said, you might be able to get SDL if you compile it yourself
20:12:22  <Supercheese> Yep, time to upgrade
20:12:23  <Yexo> andythenorth: on bananas I put it with 1.2 as requirement, wasn't sure
20:12:24  <andythenorth> FISH 2 is a total alpha
20:12:31  <andythenorth> Yexo: sounds fine to me
20:12:46  <Terkhen> andythenorth: shoulds like FISH 2 could use some goal script testing
20:12:47  <Yexo> it won't work on 1.1, needs some newgrf station features
20:12:51  <Terkhen> sounds*
20:12:57  <andythenorth> Terkhen: yes, maybe tomorrow :P
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20:13:27  <andythenorth> using it might inspire getting Eddi's buy menu patch into trunk too :P
20:14:52  <TruePika> WEll, getting OTTD set all up again since I hacen't played in ages
20:15:18  <TruePika> [Quick creation of vehical orders] <- what is?
20:15:29  <TruePika> and a plane just crashed on the title screen O_o
20:16:20  <Supercheese> Quick creation of vehicle orders: http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Interface#Quick_creation_of_vehicle_orders
20:16:24  <TrueBrain> would SDL for Windows really still work? Well, I guess he will find out :D
20:16:36  <TruePika> ah, forgot about the wiki
20:16:56  <Supercheese> Wiki is decidedly more useful than not :)
20:17:09  <TruePika> I see the search integration with FF is still broken
20:18:06  <TrueBrain> hmm, funny, LibSDL has commits again
20:18:50  <TruePika> YAPF has been fixed up to work with ships?
20:19:14  <andythenorth> yup
20:19:26  <andythenorth> iirc it was not as slow as thought
20:19:28  <Alberth> TrueBrain:  :o
20:19:48  <TrueBrain> 1 person basically, but he has been working on it for a while now it seems
20:20:06  <Zuu> yea, I recognize his name from when I started using SDL long time ago.
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20:20:29  <TrueBrain> would 1.3 really see the lgiht of day?
20:20:30  <Zuu> Eg. around 2003
20:20:45  <TrueBrain> (I strongly doubt it, but I might be pesimistic :D)
20:21:06  <Zuu> The download page suggests that there is a 2.0 in the pipeline at some future point.
20:21:18  <Alberth> being pessimistic has the advantage you can be pleasantly surprised :)
20:21:32  <TrueBrain> owh, they call it 2.0 now?
20:21:35  <TrueBrain> guess it is better than 1.3 :D
20:21:38  <Zuu> http://www.libsdl.org/hg.php <-- has 2.0 mentioned
20:21:55  <Zuu> :-)
20:22:00  <Terkhen> the 2.0 version was listed already there when I was checking libraries used in game coding back in 2007 or 2008
20:22:53  <TrueBrain> I always wondered why SDL got so big. It isn't that great (no offense or anything, just stating the obvious I hope). There are much better altneratives .. I guess it works because it runs on so many platforms?
20:23:09  *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER]
20:23:25  * Zuu liked the simplicity of it
20:23:54  <Zuu> Although it required me to implement things like DrawLine ...
20:23:55  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: what is a much better alternative then?
20:24:22  <TrueBrain> any OS specific API, I would almost say
20:24:30  <Zuu> But it gave a good learning platform for 2D graphics :-)
20:24:49  <TrueBrain> I always liked GGI, to name another one
20:24:53  <TrueBrain> but it is kinda dead these days
20:25:02  <Rubidium> so the alternative is trying to support a plethora of OS specific APIs
20:25:48  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: dont be so black and white ;) There are other SDL-like frameworks too (like GGI)
20:26:04  <Rubidium> GGI does do sound
20:26:14  <TrueBrain> GSI does
20:26:15  <Rubidium> allegro is much slower
20:26:17  <TrueBrain> GII does input
20:26:20  <TrueBrain> GGI does graphics
20:26:30  <TrueBrain> I like how they did that :D
20:28:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: terkhen * r24551 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/ (frisian.txt thai.txt): -Fix (r24544): Change unfinished languages.
20:29:14  * andythenorth -> bed
20:29:15  <andythenorth> bye
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20:29:56  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: where can I find that GSI api?
20:30:03  <TrueBrain> meh; I guess it is like PHP: it isnt the best, but everyone uses it :D Lets hope SDL 2.0 gets done some day and does away with a lot of sillyness in SDL 1.2 :D
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20:31:31  <Terkhen> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTE0MDU <--- it seems that the guy is getting paid to work on SDL
20:32:53  <TrueBrain> Terkhen: that is interesting :)
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20:36:01  <Terkhen> given their recent interest on linux, I guess something like SDL interests them
20:37:06  <Rubidium> not that I expect a switch to 2.0 to happen any time soon for OpenTTD's generic binaries
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20:37:59  <Terkhen> I guess it also comes with a lot of API changes
20:38:21  <TrueBrain> I guess it heavily depends how fast distros make it available
20:39:02  <Rubidium> I wouldn't expect it in Debian stable within 2.5 years
20:39:13  <Terkhen> that should give us years at least, and they will probably still pack the old version
20:39:32  <__ln__> you accidentally typed a point between 2 and 5
20:39:33  <TrueBrain> well, I am sure someone will make the driver for SDL2.0 as soon as it gets released :)
20:39:55  <TrueBrain> just when it should become default .. time will tell :)
20:40:43  <Terkhen> :)
20:47:23  <FLHerne> 'Hardware-accelerated 2D graphics' sounds encouraging :-)
20:48:11  <Terkhen> urgh, true, when 2.0 comes we will have to run some profiling
20:55:48  <FLHerne> That ship-separating patch actually works :-)
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21:04:06  <fjb> Moin.
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21:24:27  <FLHerne> What changed in the Advanced Settings between r24250 and r24350? All patches that add a submenu break :-(
21:24:43  * FLHerne is feeling too lazy to look very carefully at it tonight :P
21:32:06  <Supercheese> Addition of description strings
21:32:09  <Supercheese> IIRC
21:32:22  <Supercheese> when you click on a setting, text appears at the bottom of the window describing it
21:33:14  <FLHerne> Supercheese: Ah. Will examine :-)
21:33:18  <FLHerne> Thanks :-)
21:33:29  <FLHerne> Supercheese: Played much 0ad yet?
21:33:53  * FLHerne needs to encourage more people to play it so as to have someone to play against :P
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21:42:35  <Supercheese> doing dishes, sorry afk
21:43:01  <FLHerne> Supercheese: Fair enough :-)
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22:43:47  <Terkhen> good night
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