Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:02:06 <SgtGeneralCase> SDL_VIDEO_X11_XRANDR=0 scummvm ... 00:02:15 <SgtGeneralCase> Try-and-see what it does. 00:02:48 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 00:02:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that seems to work better 00:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> second thing: scummvm gets distorted aspect ratio when fullscreen 00:03:48 <SgtGeneralCase> The bug is now 2 years old. It looks like they reverted it for 1.3, but alas, SDL-1.3 has not hit the scene anytime. 00:03:49 <Eddi|zuHause> not only because of 16:9 screen, but it adds additional black bars at the top and bottom, to distort it even more 00:05:06 <SgtGeneralCase> dosbox is happy with my 16:10 screen 00:06:24 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:07:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not quite sure what i just set, but it changed now 00:14:41 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:37:36 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-236-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:43:39 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-25-188.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:50:11 *** Kitty [freemadi@tao.quixotic.eu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:47 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-23-55.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:09:43 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-23-55.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 01:11:04 *** Kitty [freemadi@tao.quixotic.eu] has joined #openttd 01:30:46 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0e774.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 01:34:46 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-23-55.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:34:57 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:b880:1379:9554:27b1] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:51:37 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.94.24] has joined #openttd 01:52:24 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-23-55.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 02:14:19 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.94.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:37:02 *** pugi_ [~pugi@host-091-097-103-126.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 02:42:39 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-058-175.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:42:40 *** pugi_ is now known as pugi 02:43:00 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-103-126.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43:05 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-103-126.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 02:45:59 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-100-235.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:46:13 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-235.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 04:11:31 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-103-126.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 04:23:37 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-35-157.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 04:33:45 *** AndyBotwin [~memberson@186.212.17.91] has joined #openttd 04:38:21 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:38:25 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:38:29 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 04:45:43 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67B62.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD419D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:10:38 *** KnogleAFK is now known as Knogle 05:20:29 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:32:11 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-89-176-31-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 06:00:52 <__ln__> huomenta 06:10:02 <Terkhen> good morning 06:11:59 <Terkhen> SgtGeneralCase: base sets and NewGRFs should not be able to crash OpenTTD so when they do, is is a bug in OpenTTD 06:12:27 <Terkhen> so yes, a bug report would be appreciated :) 06:18:05 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d822620.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 06:33:34 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 07:06:47 <planetmaker> moin 07:08:44 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 07:08:50 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-103-126.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 07:25:35 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-100-235.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:27:53 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@79-68-107-173.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:32:21 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-235.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:33:44 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-100-235.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:39:37 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:47:38 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:56:19 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:56:28 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:57:21 <Alberth> moin 07:58:40 <Terkhen> hi planetmaker and Alberth 07:58:49 <Alberth> hi Terkhen 07:58:53 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 08:00:27 <NGC3982> Morning. 08:06:55 <Alberth> o/ 08:14:40 *** KopjeKoffie [~Maarten@f188025.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:38 *** KopjeKoffie [~Maarten@f188025.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:31:14 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:31:43 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@79-68-107-173.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31:59 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-107-173.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 08:46:13 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:46:16 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:46:34 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #openttd 09:15:38 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-23-55.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:19:49 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:43:46 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.94.24] has joined #openttd 09:58:57 *** KopjeKoffie1 [~Maarten@f188025.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:01:51 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 10:03:16 *** KopjeKoffie [~Maarten@f188025.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:21:39 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 10:23:50 *** KouDy2 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 10:28:04 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:29:41 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:54:49 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:54:59 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 11:01:44 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: goodbyte] 11:10:29 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-169.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:11:27 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:21 <NGC3982> Guys, i think i need help 11:13:32 <NGC3982> Ive been trying to understand entry-exit for a while now, but i simply don't get it 11:13:36 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/yzy86.png 11:13:42 <NGC3982> Here is what ive got. 11:14:10 <NGC3982> Two trains occupy the rails. I want the train to go to the "unreserved" rails if the station is busy with the other train. 11:14:34 <NGC3982> And i can't seem to work it out :/ 11:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the pathfinder can only go through dead end rails if they end in a depot 11:15:05 <NGC3982> Oh, ok 11:15:09 <NGC3982> Or a station? 11:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> a station only if it is in the order list 11:15:25 <NGC3982> Ah, i see. 11:15:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you should read up on "overflow depots" anyway 11:17:25 <NGC3982> I see, i found a entry i think i can use. Thanks 11:17:47 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 11:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: with dead-end rails in order to turn around there, the pathfinder would need to know how long the train is, and not consider any sidings shorter than the train length, which is problematic to implement. that is why it is restricted to depots, where we know that all trains fit in. 11:30:20 <NGC3982> Oh, ok 11:34:44 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:54:31 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-169.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:14:46 *** SgtGeneralCase [~mnxq@exit.inai.de] has quit [Quit: *] 13:02:04 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:03:58 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:04:19 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #openttd 13:20:03 *** KouDy2 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:20:43 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 13:36:33 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:38:55 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 13:51:21 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 14:02:03 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-110-119.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 14:04:16 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@79-68-111-118.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 14:06:44 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-107-173.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:10:11 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-110-119.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:14:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:16:17 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:19:04 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 14:21:52 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.94.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:23:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:23:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 14:32:27 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-89-176-31-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:33:30 *** keoz [~keikoz@217.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 14:33:30 *** KopjeKoffie1 [~Maarten@f188025.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:56 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 14:56:16 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 15:13:45 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd 15:17:16 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, that's definitely an ending of maniac mansion that i never had before 15:23:46 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:25:59 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:41:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:42:59 <Alberth> did you manage to find a winning combination? 15:44:18 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [Verlassend] 15:44:24 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 15:44:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 15:53:37 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0095e9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:01:16 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:01:46 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 16:02:41 <andythenorth> lo 16:03:00 <andythenorth> everything is broken, the sky is falling 16:03:02 <andythenorth> oops 16:03:04 <andythenorth> wrong channel 16:05:12 <NGC3982> Or so it seems. 16:07:14 <__ln__> the sky is falling and you would have left us in the dark about it?! 16:10:42 <NGC3982> I guess this channel doesn't need godly truths. 16:10:54 * NGC3982 plays OpeTTD on a train 16:11:03 <NGC3982> Is this Trainception? 16:11:31 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-89-176-31-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:32 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-89-176-31-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:13:31 * NGC3982 should use the pseuodym Maglev DiCaprio more often. 16:14:13 <andythenorth> is it an MP GS kind of day? 16:14:15 <andythenorth> frosch123: planetmaker 16:14:16 <andythenorth> ? 16:14:31 <andythenorth> Zuu & I lost horribly on our last challenge :) 16:14:44 <frosch123> not for me 16:15:02 <frosch123> unless we do it just now 16:15:07 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:15:08 <frosch123> and it only lasts one hour :) 16:16:05 <andythenorth> nah 16:16:07 <andythenorth> bad timing ;) 16:16:56 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I hate GS, but wouldn't mind an MP CDist :P 16:18:54 <planetmaker> How can you say "hate GS"? That's like "Hate NewGRF". 16:19:04 <andythenorth> he's just odd 16:19:05 <planetmaker> or "hate patches" :D 16:19:12 <andythenorth> I hate sensible stuff 16:19:17 <andythenorth> like bad UI 16:19:28 <andythenorth> not whole classes of things with no value judgement attached 16:19:32 <FLHerne> planetmaker: Correction: I hate the kind of GS andy plays :P 16:19:34 <andythenorth> although I do hate all onions 16:19:43 <planetmaker> *nom* 16:19:51 <planetmaker> onion cake... yummi 16:20:05 <FLHerne> That cargo-required-for-town-growth one is quite nice :-) 16:20:12 <andythenorth> meh to that 16:20:24 <andythenorth> is there a target town size? 16:20:42 <FLHerne> I don't think so, why would you want one? 16:20:43 <planetmaker> not yet, I think 16:21:00 <FLHerne> Targets just force you to do stuff at the expense of having fun ;-) 16:21:01 <planetmaker> define a game end by town size instead of time 16:21:18 <andythenorth> FLHerne: your argument is valid but not convincing 16:21:18 <planetmaker> targets make it fun :-) 16:21:31 <andythenorth> I follow your chain of reasoning and it makes entire sense 16:21:37 <andythenorth> but I don't accept your premise 16:21:40 <planetmaker> give the game a purpose if you're in for just a bit of playing 16:22:13 <Alberth> planetmaker: target town size â ? 16:22:23 <planetmaker> :-) 16:22:27 <planetmaker> that's default :-P 16:22:33 <FLHerne> andythenorth: My idea of fun is 'build an inefficient but somewhat realistic network, with lots of connecting services and tiny branch lines' 16:22:48 <andythenorth> [shrug] 16:22:51 <andythenorth> ok 16:23:02 <andythenorth> no argument 16:23:03 <FLHerne> Being forced to transport x cargo or make x profit would be boring :-( 16:23:13 <andythenorth> [shrug] 16:23:14 <andythenorth> ok 16:23:16 <andythenorth> no argument 16:23:22 * FLHerne agrees to disagree :P 16:23:52 <planetmaker> Both is an equally valid goal :-) 16:24:06 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Can't you just set yourself a goal in your head? :P 16:25:05 <planetmaker> that's not the same, FLHerne 16:26:17 <andythenorth> I can do it 16:26:19 <andythenorth> I choose not to 16:26:39 <FLHerne> planetmaker: Have a GS that just prints all the statistics, and let the user decide what goals they feel like setting :-) 16:26:50 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Fair enough :P 16:27:06 <andythenorth> what's the most popular game in the world? 16:27:30 <FLHerne> Dunno. If you count derivatives, Quake might be 16:27:36 <andythenorth> patience 16:27:39 <FLHerne> Or some of the MMORPGs 16:27:54 <andythenorth> specifically the patience that ships by default with MS Windows 16:27:55 * FLHerne automatically assumes 'computers' on IRC :P 16:28:12 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Is it really? Sounds unlkely... 16:28:57 <andythenorth> http://kotaku.com/5672324/the-story-of-the-biggest-computer-game-of-all-time 16:29:01 <planetmaker> I think it's highly likely 16:29:09 * FLHerne has spent ages playing a FOSS version of Minesweeper :-) 16:29:32 * planetmaker also has played both uncounted times 16:29:39 <planetmaker> heck even in windows 2.7 days 16:30:20 <andythenorth> if you add in all patience (solitaire) variants, including those played with real cards 16:30:24 <andythenorth> it's the biggest game 16:30:27 <andythenorth> easily 16:31:10 * FLHerne isn't convinced 16:31:23 <andythenorth> I have no stats 16:31:28 <andythenorth> it's a plausible claim though 16:31:40 <FLHerne> I simply don't know *anyone* who plays that regularly, compared to many who play other things :P 16:31:50 * FLHerne has no stats either though 16:31:58 <andythenorth> we probably play Facebook a lot more now 16:32:04 <andythenorth> maybe it's not 2004 any more 16:33:10 <andythenorth> anyway 16:33:10 <FLHerne> Facebook isn't a game :P 16:33:14 <andythenorth> yes it is 16:33:27 <andythenorth> most social transactions can be modelled as a game 16:33:44 <FLHerne> No, it's a system to collect everyone's personal details and then sell them to third-parties :P 16:33:55 <andythenorth> it's ludic, it has optimum strategies etc 16:34:24 <andythenorth> there's no single game called Facebook, different people are playing different sub-games I guess 16:34:53 <andythenorth> I was playing OpenTTD differently for a while 16:35:02 <andythenorth> I was playing "get new features added to the newgrf spec" 16:35:09 <andythenorth> but I've given that up, I kept losing 16:35:31 <andythenorth> now I'm playing "finish all the fricking newgrfs so I never have to make any more" 16:35:58 <andythenorth> and GS 16:36:20 <FLHerne> andythenorth: But you need to make more NewGRFs :-( 16:36:34 * FLHerne wants more andy-made GRFs :P 16:36:38 <andythenorth> I am currently trying to make fewer 16:36:40 <planetmaker> you kept loosing the NewGRF feature game? I think you've been the most successful player there, andythenorth 16:36:50 <planetmaker> you play that well, imho 16:36:52 <andythenorth> it's like Dwarf Fortress 16:36:56 <andythenorth> ultimately, you always lose 16:37:02 <planetmaker> :-) 16:37:29 <FLHerne> Is there a spec for NewGRF buoys yet? 16:37:39 * FLHerne knows someone who wanted to draw some :P 16:37:46 <andythenorth> I might scrap BANDIT, that is one fewer grf 16:38:29 <FLHerne> andythenorth: But I need more trucks :-( 16:38:41 <andythenorth> why? 16:38:47 <andythenorth> what's wrong with the current ones? 16:38:49 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-35-157.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:52 <FLHerne> eGRVTS is awful, and the 'realistic' ones are too small :P 16:39:02 <andythenorth> why is eGRVTS awful? Seems unfair... 16:39:11 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-35-157.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:39:37 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Horrible buy-menu spam, for one :P 16:39:53 <FLHerne> At least v2 has much better graphics :-) 16:40:02 * FLHerne uses it anyway :P 16:40:23 <FLHerne> Nothing else has good horse-vehicles 16:42:03 <FLHerne> If you would like to order something, please let me know (either by email or in person) the size, colour and make that you would like (eg Fruit of the Loom or Gildan). I understand that we can have any combination of colours and types, as long as the logo is the same. Other articles of clothing such as sweatshirts and rugby shirts are also available if anyone feels particularly inspired, give me a shout and I can find out the relevant info. 16:42:03 <FLHerne> I suppose I am a little unfair to Zephyris :P 16:42:10 <FLHerne> Drat :-( 16:51:31 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has quit [Quit: [RESET]] 16:52:17 <andythenorth> FLHerne: trucks are lame anyway 16:52:21 <andythenorth> you only need mail trucks 16:52:28 <andythenorth> everything else should be done with trains 16:52:42 <FLHerne> andythenorth: And food trucks, and fruit trucks, and supply trucks :P 16:52:45 <andythenorth> no 16:52:58 <FLHerne> And sometimes fish trucks 16:53:32 <FLHerne> andythenorth: 'no'? 16:54:21 <andythenorth> have you not read the goals for OpenTTD on the wiki? I'll paste 16:54:30 <andythenorth> "OpenTTD is a transport themed educational game. The purpose of the game is to show that trains are the best form of transport. Currently the world transports most of its cargo by truck, boat and airplance. We hope that by making this game, people will recognise that trains are neglected and should be used as the default form of transport." 16:54:49 <andythenorth> airplance is a typo, the wiki should be fixed 16:55:25 <FLHerne> andythenorth: That's wrong :P 16:55:47 <andythenorth> not my words :P 16:55:51 <andythenorth> that's the game goals 16:55:52 * FLHerne uses about 50% trains, 35% ships and 15% RVs :-) 17:01:19 * Rubidium uses mostly effect vehicles ;) 17:01:49 <andythenorth> do you have a branch where effect vehicles are newgrf-ed? o_O 17:02:05 <Rubidium> andythenorth: where is that? 17:02:25 <andythenorth> I thought maybe you wrote it :P 17:04:24 <andythenorth> FLHerne: you can see which country you're realistically modelling o_O http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/images/c/c8/Modal_split_of_inland_freight_transport%2C_2000_and_2009_%281%29_%28%25_of_total_inland_tkm%29.png 17:06:00 *** Hyronymus1 [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:06:36 <FLHerne> Lithuania or Romania then :P 17:12:11 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:14:44 <andythenorth> OpenTTD mostly represents Latvia I think 17:14:47 <andythenorth> mostly trains 17:15:01 <andythenorth> we should make OpenGFX look like Latvia :P 17:17:44 <FLHerne> Trouble is, gameplay with other types just isn't so interesting :-( 17:18:02 * FLHerne wants ship range and refuelling times :-) 17:18:33 <FLHerne> Plane range helped, now I only avoid them from habit rather than choice :P 17:19:19 <andythenorth> FLHerne: try new FIRS :P 17:19:19 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:25 <andythenorth> planes for supplies are essential 17:19:32 <FLHerne> andythenorth: How? 17:19:39 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:19:48 * FLHerne looks forward to having a use for helos :-) 17:19:49 <andythenorth> actually that pre-supposes GS and a time limit 17:19:53 <andythenorth> forget what I said 17:19:55 <andythenorth> just use trains 17:19:58 <andythenorth> trains for everything 17:20:05 <andythenorth> we should actually rename it 17:20:12 <andythenorth> OpenTrainTimeDeluxe 17:20:25 <andythenorth> it's like your own personal toy train set 17:20:37 <FLHerne> andythenorth: But it has ships, too :D 17:20:55 <andythenorth> just remove them tbh 17:20:58 <andythenorth> they're useless 17:21:10 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.122.81] has joined #openttd 17:21:14 <FLHerne> No, they're incredibly useful :-) 17:21:24 <andythenorth> trains are always better 17:21:35 <andythenorth> trains are faster 17:21:42 <FLHerne> My train networks always fall over when they get into the 100ktonne range :P 17:21:43 <planetmaker> you don't want to tell me, andythenorth, that the way I use trains to get oil from a rig is ok,? :D 17:21:51 <andythenorth> it's the most logical 17:22:03 <andythenorth> if ships were faster, they might be better 17:22:05 <FLHerne> Ships are perfect for vast quantities of minerals - as in real life :P 17:22:11 <frosch123> if you want to transport 1000 tons of sweets per month across 20 tiles, ships are certainly better 17:22:15 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:22:24 <andythenorth> trains would earn more 17:22:32 <FLHerne> andythenorth: They don't need to be. They're fine already 17:22:41 <andythenorth> maybe ships should travel 67mph or so 17:22:45 <FLHerne> Money in OTTD is rarely a problem :P 17:22:48 <andythenorth> I think there's a cap on speed 17:22:52 *** Hyronymus2 [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:23:03 <frosch123> trains are no longer effective if you need more than two tracks per direction for a single point-to-point connection 17:23:08 * FLHerne always has far too much, despite not playing to make profit :P 17:23:19 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:453a:331a:d510:5a1e] has joined #openttd 17:23:22 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:23:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: I bet you can't win a GS challenge with ships 17:23:25 <andythenorth> money on it :) 17:23:49 * planetmaker writes a game script "deliver X amount by each transport type" :D 17:24:35 <Eddi|zuHause> if transfers don't count, it may be difficult to do anything with ships 17:24:49 <andythenorth> :) 17:24:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: what's the point? 17:25:01 <frosch123> you can set the time limit 10 times higher 17:25:13 <frosch123> you can make any challenge as hard or easy as you want 17:25:22 <andythenorth> so let's invert my silly bet 17:25:33 <andythenorth> what's a good GS challenge for non-train transport types? 17:25:46 <andythenorth> for the 2 hour game with SV or NCG, trains just win 17:25:51 <frosch123> islands 17:25:57 <frosch123> with high terraforming cost 17:26:01 <frosch123> and too short bridges 17:26:06 <frosch123> anyway, night :) 17:26:09 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0095e9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:09 <andythenorth> bye ;) 17:26:16 *** Hyronymus1 [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:26:17 <andythenorth> take that man at his word 17:26:22 <FLHerne> andythenorth: CargoDist makes ships more useful :P 17:26:30 <andythenorth> let's make a new GS map for SV 17:26:49 <FLHerne> Cargo is much easier to transfer between modes, and it tries to travel further ;-) 17:27:07 <FLHerne> Both of which are good for ships :-) 17:27:52 <andythenorth> ships with YACD was also good 17:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ships have the huge advantage that they scale with increasing cargo amounts 17:28:17 <Eddi|zuHause> indefinitely 17:28:21 <planetmaker> oh yes. I remember how you, terkhen and myself battled the map(s) with yacd and firs :-) 17:28:35 <FLHerne> andythenorth: But YACD is no fun. Restrictive :-( 17:28:49 * FLHerne starts going on about that sort of thing again :P 17:30:19 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:31:39 <planetmaker> FLHerne, the final networks basically look the same for both yacd and cargodist 17:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so if the challenge is soemthing like "be the first to transport $amount of $cargo in one year", then the ship guy might win this for larger numbers 17:32:20 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i disagree. cargodist allows you to ignore some remote industries 17:32:34 <planetmaker> _final_ :-) 17:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause> "ignore" means "they will not be in the final network" 17:32:56 <planetmaker> yes, cargodist is more forgiving in that respect 17:32:58 <FLHerne> There's a lot of gameplay before that, though :P 17:33:12 * FLHerne likes to join everything up eventually, though :P 17:33:20 <Eddi|zuHause> YACD makes it really difficult to start out with industries 17:33:37 <Eddi|zuHause> especially with diverse industry grfs like ECS or FIRS 17:33:38 <planetmaker> you definitely have to look for a good route, yes 17:33:52 <planetmaker> it gets nicer when you have autorefit there, though :-) 17:34:19 <planetmaker> in these kind of scenarios it really comes in handy, if not even essential 17:35:20 <andythenorth> YACD works fine with a cluster of primaries *if* you get lucky on routes :P 17:35:44 <andythenorth> also it's easy to start with PAX especially if there are a couple of nearby islands with large cities 17:35:51 * andythenorth misses YACD :( 17:36:00 <andythenorth> YACD + GS would be bonkers 17:36:37 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19006.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> we should refit cargodist with "restrictive" cargo routing (optional) and finally commit it 17:36:59 <andythenorth> is it fun? 17:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 17:37:07 <andythenorth> the idea of cargodist never appealed to me 17:37:17 <andythenorth> but I haven't played it so EnoEvidence 17:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played without destinations for years 17:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> once you play d*st you never go back 17:41:40 <planetmaker> I find the idea of destinations more interesting than of distribution 17:42:42 <Eddi|zuHause> they are the same thing from a broader statistics point of view 17:42:53 <Eddi|zuHause> which is the sole reason why cargodist actually works 17:43:16 <andythenorth> this may well be incorrect, but I was put off by the complexity in the screenshots I saw + the docs 17:43:20 <Yexo> good evening 17:43:24 <andythenorth> lo Yexo 17:44:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can play cargodist without any increased complexity at all. point-to-point connections still work 17:44:12 <planetmaker> hello Yexo 17:44:38 <andythenorth> it looked like there was a lot of work in managing links and such 17:45:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but when you make complex transfer networks, all the micromanagement is removed 17:45:08 <andythenorth> but yeah, no evidence 17:45:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you just have to provide enough capacity so everything gets transported. but the whole order management with "transfer" and "no loading" can be ignored 17:47:26 <FLHerne> andythenorth: The complexity is imaginary ;-) 17:48:08 <FLHerne> If your vehicles on a route are full, add more vehicles or create a new route to divert some of the traffic :P 17:48:40 <FLHerne> If they aren't, don't - that's about all there is to the network management :P 17:48:46 <andythenorth> so how does it work? 17:48:55 <andythenorth> I don't understand the fundamental 17:49:16 <andythenorth> it routes cargo, but you create the routes 17:49:18 <andythenorth> right? 17:49:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there is not much to understand. 17:50:01 <andythenorth> planetmaker is there a coop nightly server with cargodist? 17:51:37 <FLHerne> andythenorth: You move vehicles around the place, the game maps where those vehicles are going and puts cargo onto them :P 17:51:58 <andythenorth> so why do the forum threads have so many issues with route balancing and such? 17:51:59 <planetmaker> andythenorth, not (yet). Anything is feasible 17:52:20 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Because it's not always perfect :P 17:52:53 <andythenorth> but how can there be balancing issues? 17:53:03 *** Beachtoberg [~Beachtobe@196-209-240-119.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 17:53:10 <FLHerne> eg, sometimes the cargo will always want to go A->C->B rather than A->D->B, for non-obvious reasons :P 17:53:34 * FLHerne has that problem sometimes when running both fast and stopping pax trains on the same line 17:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you don't provide enough capacity to handle ALL cargo, things get dodgy. 17:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: this is different from the default game where surplus cargo doesn't do any harm 17:54:22 <andythenorth> ok 17:54:30 <FLHerne> andythenorth: That's where the ships come in ;-) 17:54:40 <FLHerne> They're great at soaking up excess load :-) 17:54:54 <andythenorth> so surplus cargo starts getting loaded onto any vehicle which can complete the link graph? 17:54:55 <Eddi|zuHause> especially passengers show this problem, as there is a HUUUUUGE number of them 17:55:03 <FLHerne> Especially those freaking-huge freighter things 17:55:05 <andythenorth> or just any vehicle? :P 17:55:31 *** Beachtoberg [~Beachtobe@196-209-240-119.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: when a link is overcrowded, things may take silly detours, making other links overcrowded as well... and that backfires 17:56:42 <andythenorth> so from a single source (A), how is cargo apportioned to connected destinations B-Z ? 17:57:02 <andythenorth> 1/25 to each? 17:59:23 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Depends how many vehicles are going to each, how long it takes to get there and the distance :P 17:59:56 <FLHerne> But about even if they're all identical :-) 18:00:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's "some algorithm" in place to determine the "size" of the destination 18:00:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but "all equal" is probably a common occurance for non-passangers 18:01:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the details are rather unimportant, which is why i did not memorize them 18:01:39 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: CDist needs to add a settings multiplier for pax/mail production. Agreed? 18:02:28 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: no. 18:02:44 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: :P 18:02:54 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19006.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:08 <Eddi|zuHause> while that feature might be very useful, it should at no point be "part" of cargodist 18:03:15 <FLHerne> Especially with non-DD trainsets, it's very difficult to deal with the sheer numbers at the moment 18:03:25 <FLHerne> I mean as part of the patch 18:03:41 <FLHerne> It's silly to have to modify townsets to make it manageable 18:04:33 *** tneo- [~tneo@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:05:04 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:05:46 *** avdg [~avdg@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:05:47 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-89-176-31-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 18:06:00 <andythenorth> it's silly that newgrf industry and houses can't respond to an economy setting for production amounts 18:06:37 <FLHerne> andythenorth: That would be a better idea :-) 18:07:11 *** XeryusTC_ [~XeryusTC@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:16 *** Osai [~Osai@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:23 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:27 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:29 *** Yexo [~Yexo@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:29 *** Hirundo_ [~Hirundo@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:33 *** SmatZ- [~smatz@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:34 *** V453000 [~V453000@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:12:36 * FLHerne looks for people to cargodist with :P 18:16:45 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-23-55.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:20:23 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:22:26 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 18:22:36 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.68.3] has joined #openttd 18:28:29 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@79-68-111-118.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:04 *** BadBrett [~Bad_Brett@90-227-32-82-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 18:47:03 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host11-216-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:47:33 <Wolf01> oddink (this time I'm right :D) 18:51:25 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:29 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:51:32 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 18:52:34 <__ln__> good @828 18:57:14 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 18:57:47 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:00:52 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: does your desktop/taskbar clock tell you that date? 19:01:13 <__ln__> actually yes 19:03:53 <Alberth> efenink 19:06:25 <andythenorth> hi Alberth 19:06:26 <Eddi|zuHause> gehenink 19:13:13 <andythenorth> do articulated trucks need to be articulated? 19:13:19 <andythenorth> I could just compress the scale right? 19:13:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r24574 /trunk/src/script/api (script_controller.cpp script_controller.hpp) (2012-10-05 19:13:44 UTC) 19:13:51 <DorpsGek> -Change: remove undocumented return value of ScriptController::Break() 19:13:56 <andythenorth> do trailer truck graphics, but as one single vehicle 19:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and what does that solve? 19:14:25 <andythenorth> just thinking aloud 19:14:27 <andythenorth> not sure yet 19:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ever played with LV4? 19:14:48 <andythenorth> no, but I saw pictures 19:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> pictures don't tell enough 19:15:09 <andythenorth> oh I know what it solves 19:15:18 <andythenorth> it makes no sense to have articulated trucks that can't change trailer in depot 19:15:25 <andythenorth> whereas if it's just one sprite, that's fine 19:15:35 <andythenorth> perhaps 19:15:45 <andythenorth> if you're prepared to smoke crack before playing 19:15:48 <Eddi|zuHause> what?! 19:16:00 <FLHerne> andythenorth: If it looks like LV4, please no :P 19:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you're not making any sense at all 19:16:29 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r24575 trunk/src/script/api/script_controller.cpp (2012-10-05 19:16:23 UTC) 19:16:30 <DorpsGek> -Add: ScriptController::Break() now also pauses the game (and not only the script) 19:16:33 <andythenorth> I can design a truck set that makes sense with no trailer trucks 19:16:53 <andythenorth> but that limits one of: capacity, or adherence to reality 19:17:13 <FLHerne> andythenorth: There's a difference between 'can' and 'should' :P 19:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: again. what does that solve? 19:19:28 <andythenorth> in order: 19:19:31 <andythenorth> - it makes no sense (to me) to provide articulated trucks where trailer type cannot be changed 19:19:48 <andythenorth> - but autorefit is a desirable feature 19:19:56 <Eddi|zuHause> - but you can change trailer type by refit 19:20:04 <andythenorth> but that is broken with autorefit 19:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> why? 19:20:22 <andythenorth> because it looks silly 19:20:32 <andythenorth> vehicle appearance changes at stations 19:20:41 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Real trailer trucks do that 19:20:49 <FLHerne> That's sort of the point :P 19:21:21 <andythenorth> I find it odd 19:22:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i still don't understand why that would be different if it were one rigid truck 19:23:01 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Don't let them do it then ;-) 19:23:21 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I think I was smoking crack with that idea 19:23:26 <FLHerne> If you don't like your trailers autorefitting, just don't tell them to autorefit :-) 19:23:59 <andythenorth> a poll has shown that autorefit is nearly-essential 19:24:00 <FLHerne> I have big eyecandy stations with cranes and containerstacks and fake lorry parks, so it wouldn't look too bad for me :P 19:24:06 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and you can allow different sets of refits at stations and in depots, if that really is something you desire 19:24:19 <FLHerne> andythenorth: What did you expect? :P 19:24:26 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how is that done? 19:24:41 * andythenorth checks for vars 19:25:13 <Eddi|zuHause> in depots you can do all valid refits, in stations the autorefit callback is called 19:26:32 <andythenorth> how to limit the set of available refits though? 19:26:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but i'll side with FLHerne here. for trailer trucks it actually makes sense to switch trailer graphics in stations. for rigid trucks not 19:26:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in the GUI? you can't 19:27:05 <andythenorth> in newgrf 19:27:24 <andythenorth> there's no way afaict 19:27:29 <andythenorth> but nvm 19:28:02 <andythenorth> so ships can't change graphics (e.g. tanker to cargo) - because ships are large and just don't work like that? 19:28:27 <andythenorth> but trailer trucks - changing is acceptable because it's closer to reality? 19:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 19:28:43 <andythenorth> plausible 19:29:19 * andythenorth is seeing a simpler design 19:29:29 <andythenorth> no trucks with variable number of trailers 19:30:27 <andythenorth> this set would be bigger than intended though 19:30:35 <andythenorth> maybe that's inevitable 19:33:54 <andythenorth> so no drawbar trucks 19:33:59 <andythenorth> lots of rigid trucks 19:34:03 <andythenorth> small number of articulated trucks 19:34:14 <andythenorth> articulated trucks change appearance at stations 19:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what a drawbar truck is 19:35:23 <andythenorth> http://truck-photos.net.s3.amazonaws.com/1768.jpg 19:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but: rigid trucks: one for each cargo class. articulated trucks: refit to "all except passengers" 19:35:34 <andythenorth> +1 19:35:54 <andythenorth> and articulated trucks have 1 trailer 19:36:00 <andythenorth> I'll figure out doubles / triples later 19:36:05 <andythenorth> as an extra 19:36:31 <andythenorth> now for gameplay balance.... 19:36:32 <Eddi|zuHause> put double/triple vehicles in HEQS (i'm sure i said that before) 19:36:36 <andythenorth> maybe yes 19:37:27 <andythenorth> only two sizes needed? large, small? 19:37:32 <andythenorth> more than that is overkill 19:38:22 *** Industrial [~tom@62.212.77.76] has joined #openttd 19:38:39 <andythenorth> ~15t and ~30t 19:38:41 <Industrial> Hello. Is downloading all online content a good idea? 19:39:10 <Industrial> I see that it doesn't download dependencies automatically. I downloaded all scenario's and am unable to play quite a few. 19:39:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Industrial: probably not 19:39:31 <Industrial> Most give me the error: invalid town name generator 19:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Industrial: not all scenarios put their GRFs in as dependencies 19:40:05 <Industrial> k 19:40:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Industrial: and some GRFs are not on the online content at all 19:40:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CC10.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Industrial: no idea what "invalid town name generator" means, though 19:41:06 <Industrial> well Purno seems to make nice scenario's. e.g. Toy Train or Halo - the circle sea that i'd like to see .. 19:41:08 <Industrial> Eddi|zuHause: k 19:46:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6B7D0.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:47:41 * andythenorth is trying to puzzle out which ways autorefit is broken 19:47:54 <andythenorth> maybe it's BANDIT 19:48:11 <andythenorth> lead vehicle autorefits, trailers don't :P 19:48:23 <andythenorth> probly missing flag 19:49:00 <andythenorth> winner 19:49:45 <andythenorth> hmm 19:49:49 <andythenorth> how do I install pixa? 19:52:01 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:53:17 <andythenorth> python is baffling 19:53:19 *** KritiK [~Maxim@128-72-9-250.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:54:49 <FLHerne> Industrial: Downloading everything is never a good idea 19:55:05 <FLHerne> Also, there's a 'download missing content' button :P 19:55:35 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Why no drawbar trucks? 19:56:06 <andythenorth> is there a safe way to add a path to python's module search? 19:56:26 <andythenorth> setup.py has stuck pixa in some path that OS X python refuses to see 19:56:37 <andythenorth> and the python docs are confusing 19:56:43 <FLHerne> andythenorth: OSX is stupid anyway :D 19:57:07 * andythenorth adds to ignore file 19:57:17 <FLHerne> :P 19:57:39 * FLHerne gets bored with trolling :P 20:01:04 <andythenorth> I can see the path for python site-packages 20:01:10 <andythenorth> and I can see that pixa is in that path 20:01:14 <andythenorth> :( 20:01:26 <andythenorth> but import fails on module not found 20:02:32 <andythenorth> solved 20:02:39 <andythenorth> stupid OS X python setup 20:07:09 <Alberth> use the PYTHON_PATH env variable afaik 20:07:22 <Alberth> (I am not sure about the _ ) 20:07:55 <Alberth> or tell setup to use a better place for putting it :) 20:08:03 <andythenorth> all would be well if I could get OS X to let setuptools etc to agree where it should put things :P 20:08:19 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 20:08:43 <Alberth> haha, you mean the customer wants to decide something???? :D 20:10:59 <andythenorth> I forsee a falling out with python soon 20:11:38 <andythenorth> I can import pixa 20:11:47 <andythenorth> but I can't import any of pixa's modules 20:11:58 <andythenorth> modules / classes /s 20:12:38 <Alberth> modules and classes are very different things 20:13:11 <Alberth> what exactly fails? 20:13:21 <andythenorth> ImportError: cannot import name PixaShiftXY 20:13:48 <andythenorth> the only thing that changed since it last worked is....I migrated my OS :P 20:13:51 <Alberth> where that is a class, I assume. In pixa.py ? 20:13:54 <andythenorth> yes 20:14:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you can only import classes if the __init__.py imports * 20:14:17 <andythenorth> hmm 20:14:22 <andythenorth> that class is missing from pixa 20:14:39 <Alberth> that would be another option :p 20:14:44 <andythenorth> that will teach me to install stable instead of nightly :P 20:14:59 <andythenorth> I am too used to having a broken python to spot the obvious problem :P 20:15:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what your problem is. it worked out-of-the-box here 20:16:56 <andythenorth> used a tag instead of tip 20:17:09 <andythenorth> tag misses a class :P 20:17:28 <andythenorth> :m 20:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean your general python problems 20:17:43 <Alberth> so much for testing code that gets thrown into the repo :p 20:18:21 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: apple-supplied python is basically weird and strange and best avoided 20:18:35 <andythenorth> but I can never be bothered to teach nml etc to use a different python 20:19:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that's done by environment variables? 20:19:16 <andythenorth> yes 20:19:18 <andythenorth> I guess 20:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure i knew this once 20:19:50 <andythenorth> I only need a few packages, so when I upgrade my OS I go through the pain of fighting the modules to work with apple-python 20:19:51 <Alberth> if you installed nml, it's she-bang line points to the python you used to install it 20:20:09 <andythenorth> or I could just use a virtual-env, which seems to solve all woes :P 20:20:54 <andythenorth> it would be fine if apple stopped moving the install location for site-packages to bizarre places, probably 20:20:57 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Or a better OS :D 20:20:59 <andythenorth> anyway, works now :) 20:21:06 * FLHerne puts his troll-hat back on :P 20:21:24 <Alberth> build a sane Python from its source code, and leave apple-python alone :p 20:22:04 <andythenorth> yes 20:22:07 <andythenorth> that's the known solution 20:22:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: usually there is a site-packages for system packages, and a site-packages for custom packages (in linux that's /usr and /usr/local) 20:22:13 <andythenorth> we had to solve this at work 20:22:23 <andythenorth> there is a python buildout that is known good and solves all these evils 20:22:28 <andythenorth> then set the shebang 20:22:47 * andythenorth should do it properly 20:23:00 <andythenorth> hmm 20:23:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't get the point of "buildout" 20:23:11 <andythenorth> this truck is refitting happily between 1 and 2 trailers 20:23:19 <andythenorth> and the game isn't crashing 20:23:30 <andythenorth> maybe I forgot to set the second trailer length to 1/8 20:23:33 <FLHerne> Yay? :-P 20:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: because you don't set the length? 20:24:23 <andythenorth> yes 20:24:53 <andythenorth> the sky doesn't fall if trailer graphics change at station 20:24:58 <andythenorth> it's even ok changing number of trailers 20:25:01 <andythenorth> it's only a game :P 20:25:17 <FLHerne> Hallelujah! :D 20:25:49 <FLHerne> Finally you've stopped nitpicking over random minor details! :P 20:25:59 * FLHerne takes off the troll-hat 20:26:05 <andythenorth> changing rigid truck body is weird though 20:26:06 <Eddi|zuHause> don't jinx it 20:26:15 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:26:31 <andythenorth> it is a bit weird to just see a trailer snap away into nothingness 20:26:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you wanted to split these into several vehicles 20:26:48 <andythenorth> yes yes 20:26:51 <andythenorth> just wanted to test 20:26:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant the rigid trucks 20:26:55 <andythenorth> yes 20:27:19 <andythenorth> I wanted to be sure this is a problem, and not 2 weeks of arguing about a non-problem ;) 20:27:52 <FLHerne> andythenorth: For scrap you could have skip-lorries? 20:27:52 <andythenorth> I have BANDIT running in a game 20:29:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can't decide what game to play next 20:29:42 <andythenorth> elite 20:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea what that is 20:30:47 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I have that :-) 20:31:00 <FLHerne> Fun, but infuriating ;-) 20:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i have at least 4 games now that infuriated me by crashing randomly 20:32:05 <SpComb> tricky truck 20:32:58 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... orion2 without modifying races? 20:33:06 <Eddi|zuHause> nah, that's silly 20:46:02 *** AndyBotwin [~memberson@186.212.17.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:49:43 *** Netsplit over, joins: BadBrett, mahmoud, KouDy, sla_ro|master, KenjiE20, George, Zeknurn, bb10, SpComb, Born_Acorn (+2 more) 20:51:19 <andythenorth> time for bed 20:51:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:54:52 *** AndyBotwin [~memberson@186.212.19.150] has joined #openttd 20:55:57 *** AndyBotwin [~memberson@186.212.19.150] has quit [] 20:57:41 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 21:04:06 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:17:18 *** AndyBotwin [~memberson@186.212.19.150] has joined #openttd 21:19:07 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:19:17 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-165-87-251.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:19:25 *** planet [b20b3d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:20:21 *** peter1138 [~petern@lachesis.fuzzle.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:26 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 21:23:45 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:26:19 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-165-87-251.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0/20120925201946]] 21:28:33 *** SmatZ [~smatz@schere.no-ip.org] has joined #openttd 21:29:03 *** avdg [~avdg@schere.no-ip.org] has joined #openttd 21:29:04 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@schere.no-ip.org] has joined #openttd 21:29:04 *** Yexo [~Yexo@schere.no-ip.org] has joined #openttd 21:29:33 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@schere.no-ip.org] has joined #openttd 21:30:02 *** planetmaker is now known as Guest692 21:30:03 *** tneo [~tneo@schere.no-ip.org] has joined #openttd 21:30:33 *** Osai [~Osai@schere.no-ip.org] has joined #openttd 21:31:03 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@schere.no-ip.org] has joined #openttd 21:32:35 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:16 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 21:36:33 *** V453000 [~V453000@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:36:33 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:36:36 *** mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ 21:37:03 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:49:48 *** gamakichi [55d85d6f@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:51:08 *** gamakichi [55d85d6f@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 21:52:43 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:13:40 *** Beardie [~chatzilla@cpc7-pres16-2-0-cust242.18-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:13:50 *** Beardie [~chatzilla@cpc7-pres16-2-0-cust242.18-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 22:14:14 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-89-176-31-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:22:15 <Wolf01> 'night 22:22:18 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host11-216-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:30:39 *** ude [~wircer@131.sub-75-247-177.myvzw.com] has joined #openttd 22:31:57 *** ude [~wircer@131.sub-75-247-177.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:50 *** keoz [~keikoz@217.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 22:46:24 *** newbie [~kvirc@p5DE4413F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:49:29 <newbie> Hi, i just wanted to ask for some response/review on this topic: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=62677 22:49:35 *** newbie is now known as Der_Herr 22:52:19 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:54:56 *** KnogleAFK [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 22:54:56 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:34 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:59:57 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-35-157.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:01:46 <Zuu> Der_Herr: Why do you set _settings_newgame.game_creation.generation_seed twice in StartNewHeightMapGameWithoutGUI(uint seed) 23:01:46 <Zuu> ? 23:03:42 <Der_Herr> thats a very good question and i think it can be removed 23:04:55 <Der_Herr> anymore suggestions/hints? 23:05:35 <Zuu> I have another question that may not be due to a problem with your code, but I've just never worked with the console commands in OpenTTD. 23:06:00 <Zuu> You check for argc == 2, and then use argv[1]. 23:06:13 <Zuu> Furher down in the code you check for argc >= 1 and use argv[1]. 23:06:28 <Zuu> what will argv[0] contain? 23:06:31 <Zuu> the command name? 23:06:42 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:06:57 <Der_Herr> if i remember correct yes 23:07:14 <Der_Herr> this function is a copy of the newgame console command 23:07:40 <Zuu> hmm, and if someone types 'help cmd', then the console command gets called with argc == 0? 23:07:56 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@vpnx247.nemendur.hi.is] has joined #openttd 23:09:56 <Zuu> In your console command there are quite many lines of code to parse the file name and decide how to load the heightmap. Doesn't this duplicate similar code for loading heightmaps in the GUI? 23:10:32 <Zuu> Would it possible to combine this into a method used at both places? 23:11:31 <Der_Herr> might be, but i am not very experienced in writing c++ code so i didnt really try to merge these cases 23:13:29 <Der_Herr> i also think there might be an easier way to start a heightmap game, but still i am not into this spaghetti style *g* 23:13:40 <Zuu> In general I think your code look good. These are things that could improve it further. 23:14:30 <Zuu> Oh, and it should be "} else {" and not "}\n else {" 23:15:35 <Zuu> indent the case XYZ: things and the code belows it one step further. 23:17:15 <Der_Herr> i see, it must been shifted while copying 23:17:48 <Der_Herr> i consider your points and try to improve the thing again, thank you 23:18:42 *** SmatZ [~smatz@schere.no-ip.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:18:57 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@schere.no-ip.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:10 *** Yexo [~Yexo@schere.no-ip.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:10 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@schere.no-ip.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:12 *** avdg [~avdg@schere.no-ip.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:28 <Zuu> You're welcome :-) 23:20:06 <Zuu> Most people here started out making patches, and then some more and some more.. :-) 23:20:12 *** tneo [~tneo@schere.no-ip.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:27 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:42 *** Osai [~Osai@schere.no-ip.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:21:02 <Der_Herr> is it better to ask here for review or should i wait for a response in the forum/bugtracker? 23:21:30 *** V453000 [~V453000@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:22:12 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:22:13 <Zuu> Its a good idea to post patches to forum or bugtracker if not else to have somewhere to upload them. If you don't get any response there, come here into IRC to get in touch. 23:22:20 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:22:22 *** Guest692 [~planetmak@schere.no-ip.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:02 <Der_Herr> ok, thank you 23:23:08 <Der_Herr> i wish a good night :) 23:23:32 <Zuu> The bugtracker is read mostly by devs and some other patch authors, the forum is yea more general. 23:24:27 <Zuu> good night too 23:24:28 <Der_Herr> thats right, but i didnt get any response there ( Yexo responded also in irc) 23:24:49 <Der_Herr> ok, anyway cya 23:24:55 *** Der_Herr [~kvirc@p5DE4413F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:42:17 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@vpnx247.nemendur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:42:56 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@vpnx239.nemendur.hi.is] has joined #openttd 23:43:12 *** Hyronymus2 [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus2] 23:47:24 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d822620.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 23:57:31 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.68.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:45 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.68.3] has joined #openttd 23:57:47 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 23:59:47 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@vpnx239.nemendur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]