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00:03:56 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host217-43-119-89.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:05 *** Strid [~Strid@c-69cbe455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 00:07:45 *** Strid__ [~Strid@c-9ac9e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:15:43 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:16:12 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 00:17:03 * drac_boy smears supercheese with more cheesy cheese? 00:17:08 <drac_boy> heh sorry just had to humor myself 00:17:17 <Supercheese> oy! 00:17:56 <Supercheese> I promised to code a test-grf a while back and still haven't gotten around to it 00:18:09 <Supercheese> I really should not promise things I have low motivation to do... 00:18:37 <drac_boy> heh 00:18:44 <Supercheese> guess I should take a crack at it 00:18:58 <drac_boy> I still have that grf project of mine that hmm well yeah need someone to make some nfo code for me 00:19:04 <drac_boy> otherwise...the typical slow progress :) 00:19:13 <Supercheese> Well, if it was NML code I could help you 00:19:23 <Supercheese> NFO, not so much 00:19:37 <drac_boy> heh 00:21:16 <drac_boy> what kind of test grf anyway? 00:21:29 <Supercheese> Implementation of leasing & second-hand purchase mechanics 00:21:43 <Supercheese> it has serious drawbacks, but lots can be controlled by .grf 00:22:17 <drac_boy> second hand? hmm....company A sells off a bunch of old freight wagons and company B can buy these instead of the usual new ones? 00:23:19 <Supercheese> lemme find the relevant thread 00:24:07 <Supercheese> Huh, searching through my posts I find the moderation has taken issue with my linking to another thread on the forums... strange 00:24:13 <Supercheese> moderation staff* 00:24:34 <Supercheese> a thread posted by orudge himself, no less 00:25:03 <Supercheese> Here we go: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=62862&p=1049975#p1049328 00:26:05 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@524B53F1.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:28:13 <drac_boy> mm 00:30:33 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:30:48 <Supercheese> Curses, there's no "substitute" property for vehicles 00:37:23 <drac_boy> well 'll pass on that kind of idea considering I'm a single company game kind of person but mm... have fun with that new thing ok? :) 00:37:31 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-152-132.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:37:46 <Supercheese> It would be valid for single companies, at least the implementation I plan 00:37:59 <drac_boy> how? haven't sold off anything 00:38:10 <Supercheese> That's the thing, they'd be available anyway 00:38:16 <Supercheese> no requirement for someone to have sold one 00:38:32 <Supercheese> blarg, need a list of default ttd vehicle properties 00:39:32 <Supercheese> wiki only has them for trains; guess I'll work with trains then 00:40:20 *** ycm [~Adium@modemcable159.222-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 00:40:49 <ycm> Hello #openttd. :) 00:41:29 <Ammler> Hello #ycm 00:41:39 <Ammler> . 00:44:18 <ycm> Is there a 'newbies' server for multiplayer? 00:45:35 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@524B53F1.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 00:46:08 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@524B53F1.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 01:02:52 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has quit [Quit: Vadtec was here....] 01:03:53 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 01:11:46 *** ycm [~Adium@modemcable159.222-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:11:46 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:12:54 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 01:20:12 *** keoz [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 01:22:39 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:02 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:23:55 * drac_boy wonders about whacking flygon again? 01:23:58 <drac_boy> heh heh 01:25:59 <drac_boy> must be like mid-morning for you over there anyway isn't it? 01:26:16 <Supercheese> GMT -8 here 01:26:27 <Supercheese> 6:30 PM 01:26:41 <drac_boy> and you're not in australia....scat? :p 01:27:06 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:27:07 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:27:18 <Supercheese> There's more of an AU address 01:28:13 <Supercheese> seems he got disconnected temporarily 01:32:22 *** Flygon__ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:32:32 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:52 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:56 <drac_boy> -_- 01:32:59 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 01:33:16 * drac_boy takes a coal axe and smashes flygon's internet connection into behaving 01:33:21 <drac_boy> heh :| 01:34:55 <Supercheese> Well, it's aussie Internet, apparently it has "expensive transits (non-local-routable-traffic)" 01:35:46 <drac_boy> Supercheese nothing worser than "limited space at a locked high price, and no we are not going to add any more seating space" from north america I'm sure tho ;) 01:36:08 <Supercheese> I'm just quoting http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=63111#p1051948 01:39:13 *** Flygon__ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:39:21 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:44:48 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@200.146.11.67.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:47:07 *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::1d:4242] has 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[~telanus@105-236-172-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #openttd 05:32:09 <Rubidium> heffer: there has been a new release (if you didn't already know it) 05:36:35 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 05:45:00 <Knogle> perhaps the channel topic should be updated. 05:49:10 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD470B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5FAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:28:59 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 06:33:56 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:33:59 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 06:34:07 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 06:35:30 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 06:45:14 <__ln__> safety on-board, B777: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBlRbrB_Gnc 06:54:17 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:54:54 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 06:59:29 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:59:35 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 06:59:40 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 07:33:12 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 08:08:59 *** planetmaker changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.2.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices 08:15:28 *** Elu [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 08:18:46 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 08:21:03 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:23:29 *** Elu is now known as Elukka 08:34:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19570.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:54:16 *** lugo [bc6f57fe@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:59:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:59c0:779e:efa0:5a1f] has joined #openttd 09:00:24 <andythenorth> we need more people downloading grfs 09:00:36 <andythenorth> I am trying to get to 1m 09:00:43 <andythenorth> only on 918k :( 09:01:32 <lugo> user hitting 1mth dl gets a free cookie 09:02:17 <lugo> we'd be there in no time, i love cookies 09:02:33 <andythenorth> have a cookie 09:03:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:59c0:779e:efa0:5a1f] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:06:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 09:15:56 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:17:08 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19570.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:55 <RavingManiac> Made a fourtrack line 09:19:01 <RavingManiac> I am now staring at it 09:19:05 <RavingManiac> it is so beautiful 09:20:56 <Flygon> Is it filled up? 09:23:51 <RavingManiac> There are currently about 32 trains running on it 09:24:09 <RavingManiac> It was originally a two-track line, was starting to get jammed 09:25:27 <NGC3982> Morning. 09:31:59 <Flygon> Nice :3 09:32:13 <Flygon> You should run the department of transport for Victoria 09:32:17 <Flygon> Dandnenong line :D 09:32:22 <Flygon> Morning NGC 09:33:25 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:47:50 <Flygon> I've been playing this Europe scenario... 4 track lines, shame about the trains :p 09:49:04 <Flygon> As it turns out, 1906 presents some slow trains 09:51:32 <NGC3982> Hehe 09:51:34 <NGC3982> On a server? 09:54:20 <Flygon> Nah 09:54:24 <Flygon> Single Player 09:54:36 <Flygon> 2048*2048 would kill any online game 09:54:40 <Flygon> I'd love if it was MP 09:57:38 * NGC3982 is running a 2048^2 game online. 09:58:20 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:08:48 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00ba5b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:16:31 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:17:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:18:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 10:21:02 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/oIJHC.png 10:21:14 <NGC3982> I can't seem to get the ships to understand where to go 10:21:32 <NGC3982> Their order is up the constructed river 10:21:37 <NGC3982> But they just circle around 10:23:46 <Yexo> what ship pathfinder do you use? 10:23:57 <Yexo> if it's not yapf, try switching 10:24:20 <NGC3982> Its YAPF. 10:24:23 <NGC3982> It's* 10:24:39 <NGC3982> Oh wait, no it isn't. 10:24:50 <NGC3982> Though, i'm playing on my own server. I can't seem to change that parameter. 10:25:00 <NGC3982> Can i change it with rcon? 10:27:11 <NGC3982> I fail to find documentation on simply turning it off and on for ships. 10:27:35 <NGC3982> Oh, hold on. 10:28:02 <NGC3982> There we are. 10:28:47 <NGC3982> Yexo: It works. Thank you very much. 10:29:10 <NGC3982> Is there any particular reason to YAPF not being on by default in 1.2.2? 10:29:24 <Yexo> I think it is the default now 10:29:28 <Yexo> not sure about 1.2 10:29:37 <Yexo> but if you have an existing config file it won't be changed 10:29:42 <NGC3982> Oh 10:29:43 <NGC3982> I see 10:29:59 *** dada_ [~dada_@62.140.132.94] has joined #openttd 10:30:26 <Yexo> if I'm slow with reaction, it's not that I don't want to answer, it's just that I don't pay too much attention 10:31:40 <NGC3982> Hey, it's not like im demanding support here. 10:31:55 <NGC3982> i'm* 10:32:23 <Flygon> A tip, NGC3982 10:32:26 <Flygon> When taking a screenshot 10:32:29 <Flygon> Go to the ? icon 10:32:38 <Flygon> Then select... 10:32:48 <Flygon> Default Zoom Screenshot 10:32:53 <Flygon> Don't select whole map 10:33:01 <Flygon> I crashed a 2048*2048 game doing that :B 10:33:31 <NGC3982> I never use that function, ever. 10:33:49 <NGC3982> I use third party software to take selective screenshot + uploading 10:34:00 <Flygon> Ah, right 10:34:05 <Flygon> I use Dropbo 10:34:07 <Flygon> Dropbox* 10:34:08 <NGC3982> (It's Hyperdesktop: http://gethyperdesktop.com/ ) 10:34:17 <NGC3982> It's very, very simple and very, very good. 10:34:29 <NGC3982> click it, mark the area, wait five seconds, url in a bubble. 10:34:33 <NGC3982> Click* 10:36:15 <Flygon> I guess 10:36:21 <Flygon> Buuut, never been a fan of that stuff 10:37:15 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-123-71.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 10:38:09 *** dada__ [~dada_@62.140.137.85] has joined #openttd 10:40:45 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-123-71.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:08 *** dada_ [~dada_@62.140.132.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:42:25 *** dada_ [~dada_@62.140.137.85] has joined #openttd 10:42:58 *** dada__ [~dada_@62.140.137.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:00 *** dada_ [~dada_@62.140.137.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:53:45 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 10:56:57 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 11:10:52 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@eduroam-224.felk.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 11:17:02 <Terkhen> hello 11:17:58 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:57 <Flygon> Yo 11:19:21 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:27:23 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:42 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@eduroam-224.felk.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:28:04 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:29:39 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 11:35:55 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 11:41:01 *** dada_ [~dada_@62.140.137.85] has joined #openttd 11:49:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:53:03 *** dada_ [~dada_@62.140.137.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:07:18 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:16:18 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:32 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 12:42:19 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@524B53F1.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:46:01 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:49:50 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 12:50:03 <drac_boy> hi 12:50:57 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:51:23 *** argoneus [~argoneus@smtp.gvp.cz] has joined #openttd 12:52:22 * Flygon shovels drac_boy onto his Moscow-St. Petersberg express 12:52:36 <Flygon> Dangit! My Blimps are slower than my trains! Shovel! Gogogo! 12:53:16 <Flygon> Anyway 12:53:17 <Flygon> You called? 12:55:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 12:57:08 <drac_boy> you're really funny :P 12:57:17 <drac_boy> how're you anyway? 12:57:20 <Flygon> I'm not funny 12:57:25 <Flygon> That's the worst joke I ever told! :P 12:57:28 <Flygon> I'm quite alright 12:57:30 <Flygon> You mate? 12:57:39 <drac_boy> doing ok for now 12:59:18 <drac_boy> flygon so hmm yeah about trains as usual...how about this? http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/wm6s.jpg 12:59:58 <Flygon> That is a very fascinating beast 13:00:09 <Flygon> Is it a geared locomotive? 13:00:22 <drac_boy> mm well the funny thing is .. thats the usual "busy" side .. on the other side theres no rods or any pistons tho 13:00:27 *** keoz [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 13:00:29 <drac_boy> yeah its a lima shay .. the common ones 13:00:40 <Flygon> I'm getting better :) 13:01:03 <drac_boy> flygon and btw heres a small NG one http://www.samlindsey.com/images/FamilyHist/Lima 1607 Shay.jpg 13:01:14 <drac_boy> goes to show they were in any size from 2 to 3 trucks and different weights ;) 13:01:44 <drac_boy> and yeah I know the pistons are rather exposed :P 13:02:02 <Flygon> Oh wow 13:02:10 <Flygon> That poor little thing looks so fragile, and exposed... 13:02:24 <drac_boy> flygon yeah the smaller one could be worked with only one man .. and just a small scoop for the coal 13:02:27 <Flygon> I know the local Puffing Billy railway recently aquired a Climax geared locomotive 13:02:47 <Flygon> Are the wheels on that locomotive milled like that for a reason? 13:03:00 <drac_boy> no need for a shovel...just jab a small scoop into the firebox...sit for some time ... then get another small scoop 13:03:01 <Flygon> Does it go on a special track? 13:03:12 <Flygon> Well, certainly doesn't go very fast :p 13:04:06 <drac_boy> flygon...actually that the point.. the length-adjustable rods (the part between pistons and trucks) could take almost anything except a literal dime turn .. and the axles were a bit loose .. so these shays as dsigned could travel over crude ballastless tracks typical to cheap logging 13:04:06 <NGC3982> drac_boy: what's that on the side on the WM6S? 13:04:21 <Flygon> Ahh 13:04:22 <drac_boy> a normal 0-6-0T tank locomotive might have derailed too much due to its rigid 3 axles .. literally 13:04:48 <drac_boy> flygon...one moment I know some good photos for you.. 13:04:53 <Flygon> Yeah, I heard of geared locomotives being used to go on, among other things, literal wooden rails 13:05:05 <Flygon> Some I saw... looked like car wheels without tyres 13:05:19 <Flygon> And they just 'drove' in gauge with logs 13:05:39 <Flygon> Can't imagine the traction would be fantastic on a steep incline 13:07:18 <drac_boy> http://www.vannattabros.com/20081st/Shaybenson.jpg look at the track under the first load .. and even the little bridge behind isn't so "flat" neither 13:07:34 <drac_boy> thats the place a shay wouldn't care for .. but a normal rigid locomotive .. well .. as I said .. it may derail :) 13:09:32 <drac_boy> and flygon just for you to know if you didn't .. the odd offset boiler is a normal feature .. because all the pistons are on only one side ... they moved the boiler off to the side to compemsate for that rather than making a wider chassis which would had been of no use 13:09:55 * Flygon nod 13:10:15 <drac_boy> of course the silly thing about a shay is....they sound way faster than they should be :P 13:10:20 <Flygon> ...I just realized those logs are being held up by trailers 13:10:32 <drac_boy> 40mph? no sir .. thats just the pistons alone .. the axles are actually only doing 10mph! :) 13:10:57 <Flygon> The price for all-wheel drive that isn't rigid :p 13:11:13 <drac_boy> and with the big 3-trucks ... sometimes they'll smoke so much like an express NYC 4-8-4 locomotive ;) 13:11:42 <Flygon> I can't say I've seen such smoke :p 13:11:54 <Flygon> Only smoke I've seen here is huge plumes of black 13:12:29 <drac_boy> flygon...heh well another thing the shay had going for them was .. they'll restart a fresh lumber load up a 14% grade if its not that long 13:12:29 <Flygon> Hard to tell if the R-class is burning oil, or ... ... something that makes a lot of black smoke :U 13:12:38 <Flygon> Wow 13:12:40 <Flygon> 14%? 13:12:47 <Flygon> You're... well, crapping me, right? 13:13:23 <drac_boy> well..you have to remember they had very long gears so the pistons are already turning pretty well by the times the axle finally start rolling unlike normal siderods which are hard pressed to start at such a low speed 13:13:52 <drac_boy> and .. 14% is actually just a conservative guessing .. some of the old lines that rammed through hills were .. crazy 13:14:11 <drac_boy> only limit would probably be wet rail traction and/or the slope of watersheets in firebox 13:14:17 <Flygon> Oh wow 13:14:45 <drac_boy> flygon of course by now the stupid thing called OSHA etc would never ever allow most of the things anymore..not even one-man locomotive crew either 13:14:50 <drac_boy> :| 13:15:18 <Flygon> Really? 13:15:37 <Flygon> I'm reasonably sure that V/Line has employed 1-man locomotive crew... 13:15:47 <drac_boy> reminds me of a photo of one of the few crew fixing the cable to one of the pantograph on a cog engine .. with the overhead wire only a feet from his head ... the photographer remarked that north america would had never allowed this kind of practice!!! 13:16:00 <Flygon> And when West Coast Railways existed, they ran 1-man locomotive crew on the R-class until the company finally died (2005) 13:16:07 <drac_boy> (the picture was taken in europe) 13:16:08 <Flygon> Australia has laxer OSHA? 13:16:18 <drac_boy> flygon mm could be :) 13:16:23 * Flygon nod 13:16:47 <Flygon> Though, interestingly, I tend to see Metro EMU's having at least 2 people inside the cab... 13:16:53 <drac_boy> flygon oh and hmm theres one thing I know in general for north america but don't know about it oversea.... 13:17:05 <Flygon> And sometimes around 6. But those EMU's are usually for driver training with 6 crewmen... 13:17:20 <drac_boy> used to be if a bad accident happened anyone either from intact section of the train or from nearby town would all come to help out with anything even torching steel roofs out of the way ... 13:17:38 <drac_boy> but nowaday its not even allowed in any way anymore..only the fire crews can do these kind of tasks >_< 13:17:42 <Flygon> Oh lord 13:17:54 <Flygon> Doesn't help America has this "Sue anyone" culture 13:17:59 <drac_boy> yeah .. blame the stupid "safety" board whichever one it is these days 13:18:03 <drac_boy> and THAT too yeah 13:18:10 <Flygon> Suing a good samaritan shouldn't be a default reaction >_> 13:18:17 <drac_boy> yeah I so agree with you :/ 13:18:46 <drac_boy> I mean its rather fun to watch these old newsreel of a passenger train accident and you barely even can find one single police officer head anywhere .. its almost all last-minute volunteers 13:18:50 <Warod> i,w 32 13:18:52 <Warod> asdf 13:19:13 <Flygon> I'm not able to recall what the legal situation about that is in Australia, sorry. But chances are, if a group of people that were only trying to help got in trouble over it, you can bet the public'd be a bit upset. 13:19:14 <NGC3982> Oh hi, Irssi user. 13:19:15 <NGC3982> :D 13:19:31 <drac_boy> flygon oh and another thing was .. a crew was not always "the crew" .... 13:19:53 <Flygon> Hm? 13:20:43 <drac_boy> one story I recall of was a typical local steam passenger train .. left station as usual .. but somewhere later down the line..came to a halt .... soon it moved abit a bit slow .. then halted again .. and wasn't long before a conductor went through train asking for a volunteering fireman .... one being found the train finally set off again .. dropping off the suddenly-ill fireman at an unscheduled station stop 13:20:59 <drac_boy> and the train continued on more or less to a slower schedule with this improper fireman all the way 13:21:26 <drac_boy> of course nowaday they wouldn't allow such thing "due to lack of skill" and safety etc 13:21:33 <drac_boy> again...curse you north america :p 13:22:17 <Flygon> Ahhh 13:22:19 <Flygon> Hmm 13:22:28 <Flygon> Here, you can be a fireman 13:22:31 <Flygon> But you need to pay to do it 13:22:39 <Flygon> This's on the Puffing Billy tourist railway 13:22:44 <drac_boy> mm 13:23:05 <Flygon> Dunno what other rail companie's policies are 13:23:33 <Flygon> I know with Steamrail, you might just end up with a lever in front of you that probably says "Oil Throttle" :p 13:23:39 <drac_boy> heh 13:25:16 <Flygon> But, yeah 13:25:48 <Flygon> Basically, it's possible here. But you either need to be an official volunteer, or pay to do it, first... which is deviating from the premise of your story somewhat 13:25:53 <drac_boy> hmm I just remembered one more shay thing..let me see if I can find it... 13:26:26 <Flygon> (gonna snag a quick snack, be a min) 13:28:56 <Flygon> Back 13:31:46 <drac_boy> flygon you want guess what happens when you combine a shay locomotive with absolutely no care for building useless bridges at all? 13:32:12 <Flygon> A locomotive that has a heavier axle load? 13:32:52 <drac_boy> nope: http://www.buffalocreekandgauley.com/OPERATIONS/ERCLOps/12FordingStreamDMOPT.jpg just drop the tracks and leave it be .. beside its only 5-10mph so who is going to care 13:33:12 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 13:34:10 <drac_boy> and a bigger crossing of the same river further down the line .. http://www.buffalocreekandgauley.com/OPERATIONS/ERCLOps/3b._Shay_In_River_11.24.61_Steve_Patterson_CORR_Darker.jpg (the man on front is just looking out for any submerged logs that may have washed onto the tracks) 13:34:22 <Flygon> Are you sure that doesn't have a steering wheel? 13:34:22 <drac_boy> talk about saving so much money not bothering with bridges 13:34:42 <drac_boy> heh nope 13:34:54 <Flygon> Because honestly, we're entering territory where it makes sense to just make low-speed trackless trains :p 13:35:13 <drac_boy> flygon..problem is this is only one river .. theres several more miles of normal dry tracks 13:35:16 <drac_boy> so ;) 13:35:20 <Flygon> Touche :p 13:35:58 <drac_boy> flygon of course this particular line sometimes have problem with locomotives "walking" off the track during winter .. and they had to wait for a bulldozer to reset it back right 13:36:25 <Flygon> A situation where steering could have been nice 13:36:30 <drac_boy> one good thing about the low river....free water refilling for the tender ;) 13:36:41 <Flygon> Hahaha! That is sooo cute! 13:36:42 <Flygon> Er 13:36:43 <Flygon> true! 13:36:45 <Flygon> Why did I say cute? 13:36:51 <Flygon> Gah, muscle memory! 13:36:57 <drac_boy> this shows them pretty much doing that http://www.buffalocreekandgauley.com/OPERATIONS/ERCLOps/Shay12WithSiphonDMOPT.jpg ... note the fat hose 13:37:48 <RavingManiac> The plane speed factor really shouldn't apply to helicopters 13:37:51 <Flygon> I presume they're wood fired, correct? 13:38:11 <drac_boy> flygon some were wood (which then means free fuel on logging lines..eh?) .. some coal .. some oil 13:38:17 <Flygon> Ahh 13:38:19 <Flygon> Coal surprises me 13:38:37 <drac_boy> of course with wood you run into the problem of being careful to not use certain logs because they are too green to burn well 13:39:32 <Flygon> Of course 13:39:36 <drac_boy> on some old steam lines (think cuba, africa, etc that sort of locations) .. sometimes you could have bamboo+wood firing .. basically they exhausted any bamboos they had first then if there was not more to be found they started burning the wood instead then 13:39:39 <Flygon> But I still imagine it's cheaper than coal 13:41:18 <drac_boy> flygon btw it wasn't only shay locomotives that had to deal with crazy curves .. I know another one and its a mallet no less ... one moment :p 13:41:40 <Flygon> Oh wow, what 13:46:59 <drac_boy> heres a standard photo of it http://loggingmallets.railfan.net/list/ury50/sumpter250meh.jpg and it shows you how long the chassis is..... 13:47:16 *** lugo [bc6f57fe@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:47:17 <drac_boy> and now http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/file.php?1,file=14682 that kind of CURVE is what they had to deal with everyday! 13:47:23 <drac_boy> notice how sharp it is? :) 13:47:46 <Flygon> How in the cruskets does that work? 13:47:49 <drac_boy> http://home.bresnan.net/~bpratt15/images/UintahMallet75.jpg an artist's rendering of the locomotive doing its usual hard decking ;) 13:48:02 <drac_boy> notice how the frontleft piston is pretty much underneath the boiler by now 13:48:37 <drac_boy> and quoting a site with some info on them "Owing to the swing of the front cylinders when traversing sharp curves, it was found impracticable to apply a manually operated cylinder cock rigging and the cylinder cocks, therefore, are operated by air." 13:49:05 <drac_boy> an air hose is easy to reroute to the front truck ... a cable would had been too difficult to use by then 13:49:40 * Flygon nod 13:49:42 <drac_boy> only the second set of drivers were fixed to the chassis .. the front one pretty much was 'floating' to put it that way 13:49:46 <Flygon> I just find that amazing 13:49:51 <drac_boy> still .. really sharp curve and everything 13:51:53 <drac_boy> flygon btw these didn't have crazy tracks to deal with but still http://www.trevorheath.com/livesteaming/uploads/VIME/GB0714.jpg they choose a 0-4-0+0-4-0 mallet since it'll take the small curves with ease 13:52:00 <drac_boy> thats a K1 13:52:37 <Flygon> How narrow is that gauge? 13:52:56 <drac_boy> not sure heh 13:53:08 <Flygon> It seems absurdly narrow... 13:53:51 <drac_boy> and heres something on a bigger size http://www.sandstone-estates.com/oldSHT/heritage/rail/Loco_info/NGG16.jpg 13:54:08 <drac_boy> and if you want the 'next size up' I think you pretty much already know what it is .. a 4-8-2+2-8-4 13:54:24 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 13:54:57 <drac_boy> or this is a bit smaller.. 3 not 4 drive axles http://www.trainnet.org/Libraries/Lib018/ZR-1.JPG 13:55:03 <Flygon> Man 13:55:09 <drac_boy> beyer-garratt are pretty common in various sizes and gauges tho 13:55:12 <Flygon> Australia never got these interesting locomotives :p 13:55:20 <Flygon> Or, at least 13:55:23 <Flygon> Victoria didn't 13:55:33 <Flygon> I know New South Wales got some interesting designs... 13:58:32 <drac_boy> flygon and btw uk had the LNER U1 (which was a beyer-garratt) ... but they didn't like it too much .. and a true story goes that one or two of these on a train failed .. and had to be aided by a Big Bertha .. only one time there was so many drive axles in a single train 13:58:42 <drac_boy> on lickey incline where else 13:58:57 <Flygon> Big Bertha... 13:59:01 <drac_boy> can you imagine that? two garratts and one big locomotive on one train in uk 13:59:02 <Flygon> Never heard of her 13:59:17 <Flygon> UK is very restrictive on train sizes... 13:59:25 <drac_boy> flygon its a nickname they gave to a unique single 0-10-0 that had the primary task of banking up that steep line 13:59:28 <Flygon> Kinda surprising they have the official 200km/h recoord 13:59:32 <Flygon> Ahh, I see 13:59:51 <Flygon> (I'm surprised there was no verified 200km/h+ speed attempts by the US...) 13:59:57 <drac_boy> yeah I doubt they would ever want a 5-coupled locomotive anywhere else 14:00:30 <drac_boy> flygon I love the br.05 .. what else :p its the speed record holder after all. to our own ;) 14:00:49 <Flygon> br.05? 14:01:17 <drac_boy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRG_Class_05 14:01:17 <Flygon> You mean the BR125? 14:01:25 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host217-43-119-89.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:01:25 <Flygon> Ah 14:02:17 <drac_boy> mind you they didn't just hold the speed record but they clocked 100+mph in everyday service without much of a care 14:02:44 <LordAro> heyo 14:02:46 <drac_boy> even usa trains in the northeast usually only had a 60-80mph average 14:02:52 <Flygon> Sounds like the PPR T1 (I hope I got that right) 14:03:32 <drac_boy> abit at least a few streamlined ones did edge the average to a bit over 90mph 14:03:33 <Flygon> Heya LordAro 14:03:46 <drac_boy> especially the F7's with their striking trains 14:03:53 <Flygon> In Australia, you're lucky to find a steam locomotive that'd breach 140km/h 14:04:20 <drac_boy> heres an artwork of two of them http://www.ozarkairfieldartworks.com/images/hudsmd_1_.gif 14:04:30 <Flygon> I know New South Wales had some on the Syd-Newcastle line that'd break 160km/h, though... and I'm reasonably sure the VR Heavy Harry/H-class could easily make such a speed on modern RFR lines... 14:04:37 <drac_boy> and yeah I know its funny they were called F7's .. and you had emd with their own F7 diesels .. confusing a bit indeed 14:04:59 <Flygon> Wow, that looks smooth as heck 14:05:37 <drac_boy> flygon another thing to keep in mind re the real speed records... 14:07:01 <drac_boy> the mallard had a long downslope and even then it had to be pulled out of service due to blown center piston valves (or was that the pre-mallard attempt?) ... while the BR 05 had to contend with flat track all the way 14:07:07 <Flygon> Ah, yes 14:07:10 <Flygon> I know 14:07:14 <drac_boy> and the mallard didn't exactly hold fast daily service sometimes 14:07:27 <drac_boy> at least in one case it was aiding a fast freight train ... 0_o 14:07:29 <Flygon> It did strike me as the Brits being overtly optimistic 14:08:04 <Flygon> But it also marks me as surprised the Americans didn't try to officially break that steam record 14:08:08 <Flygon> They clearly had the capacity 14:08:12 <drac_boy> seem a bit silly to watch a 50mph train of mixed goods vans and tarped flatcars .. with an mallard leading it 14:08:24 <Flygon> 50mph? 14:08:30 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08e088.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:08:30 <Flygon> It's not that silly in Australia :p 14:09:16 <drac_boy> flygon yeah I wonder about that too but you have to remember that usa at least did have the GG1 then Metroliner emu and the turbine Turboliner for speed 14:09:21 *** dada__ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 14:09:34 <Flygon> You get situations where where locomotives that've been authorized to go just over 130km/h here, end up being limited to 80km/h on lines with TWPS enabled... because the 130km/h locomotive lacks TWPS 14:09:45 <Flygon> Which is a wallbanger. Because there's no discernable reason for that rule. 14:09:49 <drac_boy> the Turboliner holds the canadian speed record btw ... which is a surprise considering theres very little use for high speed tracks except between london-toronto-montreal 14:10:23 <drac_boy> the Metroliner were finally replaced (abit not without hiccups) by the Acela trainsets 14:10:52 <Flygon> So you end up with steam locomotives such as the R-class going over 130km/h on old rattly track (and doing it perfectly legally) that frankly shouldn't be handling it... but as soon as it goes near track that could probably handle trains trashing through @ 200km/h? "Nope! Sorry! You have no TWPS, 80km/h plzkthx" 14:11:05 <Flygon> Turboliner? 14:11:06 <drac_boy> the GG1? well .. they were scheduled to run on 160km/h timetables even as they became 40+ years old .. thats quite something to be honst 14:11:17 <Flygon> The UAC Turbotrain? 14:11:26 <Flygon> Yeah, the GG1 is quite impressive 14:11:39 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:53 <drac_boy> flygon .. yeah .. that was one of the few names http://fredstuckmann.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures243\IMG_0056.jpg almost looks like something from the NS railroads you know? 14:12:09 <Flygon> Honestly 14:12:11 <drac_boy> I know NS had something with such a similar nose + raisedcab setup .. just don't recall the name 14:12:15 <Flygon> When I look at the Turbotrain 14:12:28 <Flygon> It reminds me of the SAR 'Jumbojet' Comeng's 14:12:46 <drac_boy> japan has a lot of them tho .. both short and long "noses" 14:12:57 <drac_boy> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/JNR_419_series_EMU_014.JPG that shows one example with a short nose 14:13:09 <drac_boy> admittly the cab is not as raised but who cares 14:13:09 <Flygon> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/AdelaideRail_4.jpg 14:13:25 <drac_boy> heh mm 14:13:29 <drac_boy> interesting 14:13:39 <Flygon> South Australia is... odd :p 14:13:46 <drac_boy> looks like a dmu+cabcoach set? 14:13:51 <Flygon> They basically had a Diesel version of Victoria's electric fleet 14:14:19 <Flygon> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Melboure_Comeng_381M_Metro.jpg Pictured: Non-Jumbojet Electric version 14:14:40 <Flygon> Yeah 14:14:51 <Flygon> It's a DMU+cabcoach 14:16:37 <drac_boy> flygon these were ours http://www.budd-rdc.org/images/small-bcr-rdc.png 14:16:56 <Flygon> 404 14:17:04 <Flygon> Oops! Google Chrome could not find www.budd-rdc.org 14:17:13 <Flygon> Oh, that's odd 14:17:15 <Flygon> It loaded nw 14:17:18 <Flygon> now* 14:17:36 <Flygon> Huh 14:17:41 <Flygon> According to Wikipedia 14:17:55 <Flygon> The Adelaide Railcar I showed you is actually partially based off the Budd railcar you linked me 14:17:59 <drac_boy> and mind you some of them had unusual routes .. such as one on B&O being a 700+ miles route .. I mean .. 700 miles with only 40-50 seats? the connections must had been worth it to run such a lone rdc like that for many years 14:18:01 <Flygon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_class_railcar 14:18:59 <drac_boy> of course it doesn't help that in northeast usa pre-amtrak there were always a lot of quirky small connections just for the sake of letting passengers be able to go about anywhere they wish to 14:19:36 <Flygon> Makes sense 14:19:55 <drac_boy> nothing like watching an emd E5 rushing underneath the footbridge with nothing except a semi-occupied sleeper behind it as to make connection with an actual train 14:20:25 <Flygon> Heh 14:20:54 <Flygon> brb a sec 14:21:52 <drac_boy> flygon I have one magazine that listed the typical timetable for one of the station at Buffalo ... and you might have a heart attack ... the station switcher was always kept busy around the clock .. sometimes with very tight connection ... eg one train due at 11:42 and two of its coaches have to be detached to then be placed onto another train due at 11:46 14:22:15 <drac_boy> even a winter storm wasn't going to slow them down :-) 14:23:00 <drac_boy> and the crazy part: the article noted that a lot of the NYC trains ran in two sections .. thats just more shufflings to do at the station 0_o 14:23:26 <Flygon> Back 14:23:28 <NGC3982> &w 45 14:23:29 <Flygon> Woah o.o 14:23:59 <drac_boy> yeah 14:24:17 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:24:52 <drac_boy> flygon of course if you wanted the opposite of that .. head to just about any small station in mid-usa ... 14:25:16 <Flygon> If I wanted the opposite, I'd go to anywhere in Victoria :p 14:25:19 <drac_boy> many of them by the 30's were usually only serviced by an old local train or more typically a mixed train .. so yeah there wasn't exactly a schedule at all ... 14:25:27 <Flygon> Our rail system is very slack... 14:26:04 <Flygon> eg. you'll get situations where a HSR-capable train is driven to a town... and then turned off for 8-12 hours until it runs again 14:26:15 <drac_boy> sometimes the old timetable board may show 10:30 arrival but ... guess what? its not till 11:10 that it finally shows up only to leave the coach behind on platform as it goes to shuffle a freight wagon or two away before putting the train back together and deperature when it wants to 14:26:25 <Flygon> Despite the fact it could easily act as a shuttle for 5-6ish trips between then 14:26:27 <drac_boy> that was your typical mixed train on old branchlines ^^ 14:27:05 <Flygon> Victoria used to have a lot of branchlines, though... and most probably acted exactly the same way you described 14:27:10 <Flygon> And a lot is an understatemet 14:27:45 <Flygon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus_Act I'd make a comment about how this created more tentacles than Japanese... well... you get the picture. :p 14:27:46 *** argoneus [~argoneus@smtp.gvp.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:28:01 <drac_boy> flygon of course the other thing too is ... some of the canadian branchlines in the 50's had very old light locomotives that would throw off someone used to the modern big locomotives on CN, NYC, etc .... 14:28:58 <drac_boy> nothing like getting off a Hudson train ... only to later find an old 1890-dated sliding valve worked coal fired locomotive rambling away spotting some freight wagons for the branchline nearby 14:29:10 <Flygon> Heh 14:29:18 <Flygon> http://www.vrhistory.com/VRMaps/Vic1930.pdf (also, branchline central) 14:29:24 <Flygon> We have a Diesel-like version of that here 14:29:29 <drac_boy> usually there was a good reason tho .. these old 4-4-0 or 2-6-0 were so much lighter than even a GP9 .. and the old branchlines had wooden trestles on a lot of them 14:29:44 <Flygon> T-class locomotives were built in the 1950s, and are still usd for mainline (and branchline, obviously) freight 14:29:53 <drac_boy> still .. sliding valves and no roller bearing etc ... can be a silly contrast 14:30:02 <Flygon> They're underpowered compared to modern locomotives, but are nearly unkillable 14:30:33 <drac_boy> oh and of course some part of canada had its own idocisms too (hope I spelled that right?) .. 14:30:44 <Flygon> They're like The Terminator of locomotives. If The Terminator was built by VR in the 1950s, had only 700 horsepower, and only went 100km/h... 14:30:52 <drac_boy> such as freight wagons with Arch suspension trucks (rather the more modern ones) still doing 70mph ... ! 14:31:21 <Flygon> I guess they don't worry about goods being shaken? 14:31:22 <drac_boy> of course these wagons were retricted to canada.. they couldn't travel to usa 14:31:53 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:12 <drac_boy> flygon and where else could you find a tank locomotive doing a fly-drop of commuter coaches? :) 14:32:37 <Flygon> North Korea? 14:34:01 <drac_boy> flygon .. as it went.. the tank locomotive stopped outside the station .. one man got down to manner the switch .. then the train restarted ... and the locomotive cuts off to head up the spur while the coaches just whiz by onto the platform .. then the loco returns back to the line and couple onto other end of train ...and quoting the article "and even the station master didn't bat an eye !!" 14:34:35 <drac_boy> I guess it was the crew's lazy way of getting the train turned around without having to do the slower normal runarounds ;) 14:34:35 <Flygon> Heh 14:35:16 <Flygon> Well, it worked :p 14:35:16 <NGC3982> http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/modelling/24712-remembering-kv-6-a.html 14:35:18 <drac_boy> flygon here's something of a bit of tidbit for you to know... 14:35:29 <drac_boy> there were a lot of EMD E units in usa right? 14:36:00 <drac_boy> well canada only had two .. and they were originally ordered for a montreal-newyork run ... otherwise canada only had and knew the F units alone 14:36:13 <drac_boy> very rare and unique two E units indeed 14:36:59 <Flygon> "In its initial attack on the Germans, the tank broke in half when crossing a ravine." 14:37:16 <drac_boy> made sense after all tho .. canada did not have a lot of fast flat tracks that would suit the A1A-A1A diesels 14:37:16 <Flygon> Good job, Russia 14:37:51 <drac_boy> flygon a different diesel in one moment ;) ... 14:38:11 <NGC3982> :D 14:38:34 <Flygon> Stilll 14:38:49 <Flygon> Much less fail than when Australia and New Zealand independantly designed a tank 14:38:56 <Flygon> The end result only ended up in parades 14:39:14 <Flygon> Mainly because anyone who was inside it, for a start, died of carbon monoxide poisoning 14:40:07 <drac_boy> fairbanks-morse 'trainmaster' .. a bit ahead for their time .. they were quite powerful for either longer train at same speed or vice versa .. not many roads could use that at the time 14:40:38 <drac_boy> anyway afk for a bit or so 14:42:04 <Flygon> Alright 14:42:06 <Flygon> Have fun! 14:42:41 <NGC3982> Flygon: haha 15:02:43 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:15:44 * drac_boy pokes flygon 15:15:45 <drac_boy> :) 15:15:52 <Flygon> Beep 15:16:11 <drac_boy> so what doing anyway flygon? 15:16:46 <Flygon> Just built the Moscow-N. Nowgorod line 15:17:05 <Flygon> Building the Woronesh-N. Nowgorod line now 15:17:10 <Flygon> When I get this network done... 15:17:15 <Flygon> Signalling will be a pain 15:17:18 <Flygon> And then trains... 15:18:29 <drac_boy> heh? 15:19:33 <Flygon> And I just built that 15:19:34 <Flygon> Either way 15:19:36 <Flygon> Trains are like 15:19:39 <Flygon> Gonna kill me 15:19:48 <Flygon> I'm perpetually on between 1m to 2m Euro 15:20:07 <Flygon> Each individual EMU's gonna cost half a mill... 15:23:48 <drac_boy> whats your yearly profit? 15:26:44 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:27:03 <Flygon> Uuuh 15:27:07 <Flygon> Hoow do I get the yearly? 15:30:08 <FLHerne> Finance window, presumably 15:30:32 <Flygon> All my total incomes just show negatives... 15:30:39 <Flygon> Because they show construction exponentian 15:31:11 <Flygon> Oh, wait 15:31:22 <Flygon> It's train operating costs that's most of the cost... 15:31:23 <Flygon> There you go 15:31:36 <Flygon> I spend 2.4bEUR on maintainence 15:31:41 <Flygon> Get 2.8bEUR profit 15:31:56 <Flygon> And spend 500kEUR yearly on construction 15:32:00 <Flygon> Rest is compensated by trams 15:33:17 <Flygon> Hmm 15:33:21 <Flygon> I ought to trim some services 15:33:27 <Flygon> Some are now needlessly double headed... 15:34:19 <drac_boy> heh flygon sounds like you're not quite good at managing that company yet? :) 15:34:29 <Flygon> I've been busy 15:34:31 <Flygon> Constructing 15:34:32 <Flygon> :p 15:34:38 <Flygon> Not actually making new profitable services 15:34:42 <drac_boy> :p 15:34:49 <Flygon> I could be a multi-trillionaire if I wanted to 15:34:57 <Flygon> But I want to build 329km/h lines instead 15:34:59 <drac_boy> flygon hmm well sounds like you have quite different company path than I do tho 15:35:05 <drac_boy> especially when you mentioned 'signals' and eurostar 15:35:09 <Flygon> ...except it's 1926 15:35:09 <drac_boy> ;) 15:35:22 <Flygon> I have no signals yet 15:35:26 <Flygon> On newer lines 15:35:32 <Flygon> Because there's no trains on them yet :p 15:35:48 <Flygon> I should send a .sav 15:36:55 <drac_boy> 1926 ... thats only 6 years for me but I might have ended up with one line worked by a crocodile 15:38:35 <Flygon> I've been going since... 15:38:41 <Flygon> 1842 15:40:58 <Flygon> Okay 15:41:08 <drac_boy> well I only can start at 1920 but :-> 15:41:08 <Flygon> Renewed and updated/changed my rollingstock 15:41:13 <Flygon> Oughta be more profitable now 15:41:23 <Flygon> I use 2CC :p 15:41:30 <Flygon> Also experimenting with Dutch trainset... 15:41:31 <Flygon> But 15:41:38 <Flygon> I am not using anything in it... 15:41:42 <Flygon> Running costs are toooooooo low 15:41:53 <Flygon> It's not worthwhile using it 15:41:57 <drac_boy> probably your own game setting is wrong ;) 15:41:58 <Flygon> Because it's basically cheating 15:42:01 <Flygon> Probably 15:42:03 <Flygon> Hahaha 15:44:00 <V453000> you can always load basecosts mod as a last newGRF and adjust all previous newGRFs at once 15:44:11 <V453000> having them always keep similar costs 15:44:51 <V453000> not a perfect solution but if you really care about things cost, then it is a nice tool to make it more similar if you mix train sets 15:45:01 <V453000> caring about costs in general is not quite smart though ;) 15:45:23 <Flygon> Gotcha 15:45:34 <Flygon> I'll need to keep that in mind next time 15:45:49 <Flygon> Though, I have no Dutch anything in action at the moment anyway... 15:45:58 <Flygon> But the game would prolly explode if I removed the GRF now :P 15:46:26 * drac_boy only has dbsetxl alone in temperate :p 15:46:35 <Flygon> Ahh 15:47:20 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:49:04 <V453000> yes removing newGRFs isnt the best thing to do :) 15:49:13 <V453000> adding basecosts should not hurt anything though 15:49:54 <Flygon> You can do that live? 15:51:56 <Flygon> drac_boy: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Flurrail27.sav Go wild :p 15:52:08 <keoz> weird. I can't compile version -1.2.3, while I could compile version 1.2.3-RC1 15:52:37 <drac_boy> Flygon I'll have to look some another day .. only have ttdxp alone many of the times sorry :) 15:52:48 <Flygon> Drat :p 15:53:01 <Flygon> I have... odd bobs and sods loaded 15:53:08 <drac_boy> heh 15:58:58 <Flygon> V453 is probably opening that .sav, and facepalming :p 15:59:14 <drac_boy> heh 16:00:03 <drac_boy> flygon tbh a lot of my lines are singles and sometimes trains are seperated only by programmable signals too 16:00:06 <drac_boy> :-) 16:00:12 <Flygon> Ah 16:00:18 <Flygon> I double track everything :p 16:00:40 <drac_boy> well its pointless tbh ;) 16:01:00 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:01:03 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:02:31 <Flygon> Ehh 16:02:33 <Flygon> I'm lazy 16:02:55 <drac_boy> theres a thing called bidirectional signals :P 16:03:36 <V453000> I dont open everything I get to :P 16:03:43 <drac_boy> heh 16:04:28 <V453000> hm yeah that is pretty wtf to me 16:04:46 <Flygon> I do know of more advanced signalling 16:04:52 <Flygon> But I am a lazybum 16:05:03 <drac_boy> flygon in some cases I have an old route I started early on with .. then eventually build a better route but keep the old one open .. and just program the signals to deal with different trains getting difference preferences on the two routes 16:05:09 <V453000> signals are just the last bit, all other system not :p 16:07:32 *** keoz [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 16:08:35 <drac_boy> can be fun to watch the old crocodile with its old+new wagons taking the new route while the modern dmu gts stuck heading up the old twisty one instead 16:10:02 <Flygon> Heh 16:10:13 <Flygon> I've made a bad habit out of futureproofing everything 16:10:26 *** keoz [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 16:11:08 <drac_boy> well I prefer to get good routes rather than trying to make a very short one which wouldn't earn so much 16:11:46 <drac_boy> anyway need to go figure out some lunch, see you another time ok? ;) 16:12:01 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 16:13:46 <Flygon> Alright 16:13:49 <Flygon> I gotta sleep 16:13:50 <Flygon> Night, peeps 16:17:48 <Yexo> <keoz> weird. I can't compile version -1.2.3, while I could compile version 1.2.3-RC1 <- any more information? error messages? 16:20:37 <keoz> Yexo : the first try was on the tar.xz tarball. I had an error. I retried but with the .gz tarball, and that time it worked. I will check it again and I tell you. 16:21:22 <Yexo> if it fails please also make sure the checksums match those on openttd.org, if not, download the files again first 16:21:42 <Yexo> and thanks for testing :) 16:21:53 <keoz> np 16:27:21 <keoz> Yexo : it's fine that time. Don't know what was wrong, maybee some file corruption. Anyway it compiles normally now. 16:31:58 <Yexo> good to hear :) 16:32:31 <keoz> yeah 16:42:27 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:46:16 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:54:43 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:47 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:54:53 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 16:58:03 <NGC3982> Evening. 17:03:21 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 17:06:49 *** BadBrett [BadBrett@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:07:30 <Alberth> o/ 17:07:50 <BadBrett> Is there anyway I can print the variable values from a certain callback? 17:08:18 <BadBrett> (to discover errors more easily) 17:09:22 <frosch123> https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/NewGRF_Debugging#Variable_.2F_Property_inspection_tool <- only that 17:09:31 <frosch123> variables, but no callback results 17:10:07 <BadBrett> thanks! 17:12:08 *** roland [~roland@188-23-218-84.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 17:12:40 *** roland is now known as Guest4065 17:16:48 *** Guest3914 [~roland@194-166-217-113.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:18:55 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:33:15 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:38:37 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 17:42:35 *** telanus [~telanus@105-236-172-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has left #openttd [] 17:46:23 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 17:51:52 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus] 17:53:20 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-211.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:58:18 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:04:00 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19570.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:06:28 *** BadBrett [BadBrett@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [] 18:22:22 <LordAro> quietness 18:29:28 * NGC3982 is frustrated by ECS. 18:32:26 <Alberth> play FIRS instead 18:34:36 <LordAro> product placement on #openttd :) 18:36:38 <frosch123> yeah, play openttd! 18:37:16 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-159-228.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 18:37:52 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:45:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24659 /trunk/src/lang (latvian.txt russian.txt) (2012-11-01 18:45:12 UTC) 18:45:21 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:22 <DorpsGek> latvian - 3 changes by Parastais 18:45:23 <DorpsGek> russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf 18:54:02 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:06 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:54:11 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 18:56:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.167.175] has joined #openttd 18:59:47 <NGC3982> Alberth: I know, but i got a bit tired of it. 19:00:05 <Alberth> ah, ok 19:00:26 <NGC3982> But this is a real challenge 19:00:30 <NGC3982> FIRS is dead easy. 19:00:31 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c1b1:83f8:7c89:5136] has joined #openttd 19:00:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 19:00:36 <NGC3982> Good looking, but easy. 19:00:57 <NGC3982> ECS is like the Silver Surfer of OpenTTD 19:01:12 <Alberth> you should try a Silicon Valley game script :) 19:01:57 <Alberth> I tried ECS a few times, but didn't like it much 19:02:02 <NGC3982> Btw, if i understand ECS correctly; http://i.imgur.com/taiJD.png 19:02:21 <NGC3982> Will i be able to add more glass if i add more steel? 19:02:24 <Alberth> but then again, I just like building rail networks 19:02:32 <NGC3982> Or is everything in ECS based on transporting? 19:02:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:02:55 <NGC3982> Alberth: :) 19:03:32 <Alberth> and nothing large scale, just ad-hoc building connections 19:04:06 <NGC3982> I see 19:04:10 <NGC3982> Got any examples running? 19:04:43 <NGC3982> I remember being new to OpenTTD and this channel, joining a serious co-op - ruining it totally. 19:04:46 <NGC3982> :D 19:05:43 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/centre_coal_delivery.png 19:06:05 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/feeder.png 19:06:26 <NGC3982> oh my 19:06:28 <NGC3982> Oh my* 19:06:44 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/long_way_up.png 19:07:06 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/map.png map of the first 2 19:07:08 <NGC3982> Hehe 19:09:32 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:09:48 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.222] has joined #openttd 19:10:04 <NGC3982> Alberth: That looks nice. 19:10:40 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 19:11:09 <Alberth> yeah, it was the first time I played with that much water, it was quite enjoyable 19:11:19 <DanMacK> So anyone up for the enhanced bouys challenge? 19:11:43 <DanMacK> What was your percentage Alberth? 19:12:37 <Alberth> percentage? 19:13:18 <DanMacK> M assuming a map with lots of water? 19:13:37 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/Flonbourne%20Bridge%20Transport%2c%201981-08-13.sav <-- and an older game 19:13:51 <Alberth> oh that percentage :) 40% iirc 19:14:14 <DanMacK> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Sirius_(1837)coo 19:14:16 <DanMacK> Cool 19:14:36 <DanMacK> I tend to use 90% myself :D 19:15:01 <Alberth> sounds like fun :) 19:15:31 <DanMacK> A lot of small islands. Trains aren't my main method of transport 19:15:50 <NGC3982> Got damnit. 19:15:51 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/pGkP5.png 19:15:53 <Alberth> yeah, must be, otherwise you never get 90% 19:15:57 <NGC3982> I don't understand it!%#% ;_; 19:16:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:16:07 <NGC3982> Alberth: NEat. 19:16:42 <Alberth> I never got further than 1981 :p 19:16:46 <DanMacK> Hey andy 19:17:03 <Alberth> o/ mr the north 19:17:27 <DanMacK> I start a lot of games then get distracted 19:17:56 <Alberth> I tend to play just one day 19:18:16 <DanMacK> Normally by things in my early games that are out of place 19:18:32 <Alberth> hehe :) 19:19:08 <DanMacK> Then I have to research and draw that stuff... lol 19:19:32 *** MINM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:19:36 <Alberth> a common problem for developers, you cannot use something without getting annoyed about something that you need to fix IMMEDIATELY :) 19:20:01 *** MINM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 19:20:05 <DanMacK> Exactly 19:20:21 * NGC3982 is getting frustrated. 19:20:21 <DanMacK> Like enhanced bouys... lol 19:21:22 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:25:25 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:13 <NGC3982> andythenorth: I plead for your assistance. 19:27:07 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:27:59 <andythenorth> ? 19:28:52 <NGC3982> I fail to understand how to increase the maximum allowed cargo delivered to the ECS Vehicle Factory. 19:29:04 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/sUGas.png 19:29:14 <NGC3982> Is transporting >75% enough? 19:29:18 <Eddi|zuHause> so... what's the official way to start a program that it won't be killed when i exit the terminal session? 19:29:40 <Alberth> nohup Eddi|zuHause & 19:29:44 <DanMacK> Wrong industry set 19:29:59 <DanMacK> Ask George 19:30:06 <NGC3982> Oh. 19:30:27 <DanMacK> Andy does FIRS 19:30:35 <NGC3982> I actually thought he did both. 19:30:42 <NGC3982> Made* 19:31:15 <NGC3982> andythenorth: Excuse me. 19:31:19 <DanMacK> Some of his graphics are in ecs iirc but coding is all George 19:31:35 <NGC3982> Who's George? 19:32:04 <NGC3982> The thing is, i don't know if i'm doing this the right way, since i can't find wiki entries that explains it. 19:32:07 <DanMacK> The guy who did ECS :P 19:32:09 <LordAro> NGC3982: go back to your cave :P 19:32:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that seemed to work 19:32:33 <NGC3982> :( 19:32:55 <DanMacK> You bfound the ecs wiki right? 19:33:01 <NGC3982> Speaking of, i usually start all my linux software in a new screen, never exiting it per-say. 19:33:04 <andythenorth> gee 19:33:07 <andythenorth> doing ECS as well? 19:33:11 <NGC3982> DanMacK: Yes, i did. 19:33:12 <andythenorth> that would need a whole extra andythenorth 19:33:19 <DanMacK> Lol 19:33:55 <NGC3982> A quantum generated Boltzman Andy-brain would be a very effective solution to many things. 19:34:05 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I think you get a nohup.out with stdout now, you may want to redirect that 19:34:55 <frosch123> oh, there are other guys making grf with acronyms? 19:35:17 <andythenorth> :P 19:35:20 <NGC3982> DanMacK: The thing is, when reading the Wiki entry and experimenting with transported percentage, i'm not getting any clear message in what on earth happends with the lying cargo when exporting. 19:35:25 <andythenorth> no IIA 19:35:38 <andythenorth> hmm 19:35:38 <NGC3982> All kudos on Andy not making FIRS so (blastly) confusing. 19:35:43 <andythenorth> what to do next 19:35:45 <DanMacK> NGC3982 are you looking to increase acceptance levels? 19:35:51 <NGC3982> DanMacK: Yes. 19:35:52 <andythenorth> - FIRS economies support? 19:35:58 <andythenorth> - graphics changing over time? 19:36:00 <andythenorth> - soup? 19:36:04 <NGC3982> DanMacK: That is the main thing i want to achieve. 19:36:35 <NGC3982> Wish*. 19:36:36 <DanMacK> So having ghe industry stockpile more delivered items? 19:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause> <NGC3982> Speaking of, i usually start all my linux software in a new screen, never exiting it per-say. <-- something didn't work with screen and gui apps (ssh -X) in combination 19:36:40 <NGC3982> andythenorth: Soup is good. 19:36:50 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Oh, i see. 19:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean i couldn't get gui apps to start at all 19:37:41 <NGC3982> But X works otherwise+ 19:37:46 <NGC3982> -++? 19:38:08 <DanMacK> You can disable the stockpiling feature to deliver unlimited cargo 19:38:19 <NGC3982> DanMacK: That is not my intuition. 19:38:26 <NGC3982> DanMacK: And that actually makes ECS useless. 19:38:48 <NGC3982> I wish i had more knowledge in X. I'm only using Linux via SSH (non-X) connection. 19:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: i could start gui apps from an ssh -X session, but not when i ran screen in that session 19:40:10 <NGC3982> Hm 19:40:26 <DanMacK> There's no way to increase stockpiles without recoding 19:40:41 <NGC3982> DanMacK: But i notice them increasing and decreasing at times+ 19:40:46 <NGC3982> Something makes it go up or down. 19:40:53 <DanMacK> Hmmm 19:40:55 <DanMacK> Pm georvge 19:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: that has something to do with steady supply 19:41:15 <NGC3982> Where, and how? 19:41:19 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Oh. 19:41:25 <NGC3982> Ooh 19:41:33 <DanMacK> On the forums 19:41:42 <NGC3982> A bell in my brain went 'ding' 19:42:08 <NGC3982> In FIRS i recall something like "8t if both are delivered within two months of each other". 19:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> that is totally unrelated, but... :) 19:42:41 <NGC3982> Yes, but i guess that was something of what you ment 19:42:44 <NGC3982> Or ..something. 19:43:43 <NGC3982> ..Right? 19:44:10 <NGC3982> Don't keep me hanging, Bruder. 19:49:30 <LordAro> Hmm. I may have asked this before, but would some of you nice code-y people be nice enough to take a look at my program? https://bitbucket.org/LordAro/extractdrs 19:51:05 <Yexo> Converts (a part of) a string to a 4 bit uint. <- probably for bytes, not bits 19:51:39 <Yexo> that function is also very inefficient with "string str" as parameter, it causes a copy of the string 19:51:54 <Yexo> try "const string &str" instead 19:53:05 <Yexo> FioCreateDirectory is copied from OpenTTD. That's fine, but mind the license 19:54:05 <LordAro> yes, i meant to put licence notices in the files (and with the project) 19:54:12 <blathijs> if (dirFile) { <-- There is no else, making me think you might be suppressing errors here 19:54:14 <LordAro> (it's very useful :) ) 19:54:48 <Yexo> you're mixing cout with printf, that's a bad idea 19:55:28 <LordAro> blathijs: maybe, i copied that from the internet somewhere :L 19:55:28 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:55:31 <Yexo> I don't really like the use of std::string, but I guess that's personal. It feels out of place for memory buffers that are not really strings 19:56:52 <Yexo> what kind of comments do you want? 19:56:58 <LordAro> Yexo: 1) i believe i saw somewhere that "printf('\n');" was much faster than "cout << '\n';" so i used that in those places 19:57:13 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.44.10] has joined #openttd 19:57:24 <Yexo> as soon as you mix printf and cout all performance is down the drain 19:57:34 <LordAro> 2) i quite agree, but i wanted to make the program as close to C++ as possible, rather than plain old C :L 19:57:41 <Yexo> if printf is faster (could be, haven't tested) you have to stick to only printf and never use cout 19:57:53 <LordAro> 3) comments: stuff like this :) 20:00:29 <Yexo> you never check the actual filesize, you just assume it's "big enough", ie at least 63 bytes or something like that 20:03:01 <LordAro> hmm. never thought of that :L 20:07:02 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:07:33 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:08:57 <Alberth> LordAro: speed in context of doing IO is rubbish anyway, the IO device is always the bottleneck anyway 20:09:47 <Yexo> if you read a large by character by character, scanf is several orders of magnitudes faster than cin. 20:09:57 <Yexo> of course nothing beats reading it as one large buffer 20:10:03 <Yexo> but it can make a difference 20:10:22 <Alberth> somewhat, until you have 1 disk block usually 20:10:30 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:58 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:11:05 <Alberth> ie as long as you keep the IO device busy, it's as fast as it's going to get 20:11:24 <Yexo> completely agree 20:11:35 <andythenorth> use node.js! 20:11:41 <andythenorth> it's non-blocking! 20:11:43 <Yexo> and keeping the IO device busy is a whole different thing, not something to be concerned about usually 20:11:47 <andythenorth> untrained programmers can write scalable apps! 20:11:52 <Yexo> except for special programs where you really need IO throughput 20:12:16 * andythenorth is dicking around and should write some FIRS 20:12:23 <andythenorth> what larks 20:12:41 <Alberth> andythenorth: I heard node.js is good for writing FIRS 20:12:45 <andythenorth> yeah 20:12:49 <andythenorth> it's awesome for it? 20:12:54 <andythenorth> try it and let me know? 20:13:01 <andythenorth> you can probably auto-convert the python right? 20:13:35 <Alberth> ok, but don't hold your breath, it may be a few years before I can report to you 20:13:44 <andythenorth> no you miss the point 20:13:56 <andythenorth> with node.js, *untrained programmers* can deploy yesterday 20:14:03 <andythenorth> the problem is that you know how to program :P 20:14:03 <TyrHeimdal> ottd is missing a merging signal 20:14:19 <andythenorth> ottd is missing a lemmings-style 'nuke everything' button 20:14:30 <andythenorth> peter1138: ^ you wanted to get back into openttd dev 20:14:37 <Alberth> andythenorth: oh, I should thus first unlearn programming! 20:14:39 <TyrHeimdal> turns green when the train can start to accelerate to fit into a slot on the line ahead 20:14:48 <TyrHeimdal> andythenorth: oooh! that would be fun! 20:14:51 <andythenorth> Alberth: yes, then you will be as skilled as me 20:14:59 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:19 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:15:23 <Alberth> TyrHeimdal: oh that one, there are priority setups for it at openttdcoop.org 20:15:36 <Alberth> they made an art of running trains 20:15:51 <TyrHeimdal> Alberth: yeah, I know. I just wish there was an actual sign for it instead of track/sign hacks :) 20:16:14 <Alberth> TyrHeimdal: what would be the fun in that? :) 20:16:14 <TyrHeimdal> would be more realistic :) 20:16:43 <Alberth> TyrHeimdal: nah, real world has too many bugs 20:17:54 <TyrHeimdal> hehe 20:20:34 <TyrHeimdal> a signal that turns green when there is a x long slot would be enough 20:21:52 <TyrHeimdal> ...and openttdcoop is for ppl on the level of stephen hawking 20:22:13 <TyrHeimdal> they are over the top train-track-smart 20:22:40 <TyrHeimdal> iz crazeh 20:23:33 <TyrHeimdal> in a very good vay ofc 20:23:35 <TyrHeimdal> way 20:34:46 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/KyO8K.png 20:34:49 <NGC3982> I think this will work 20:35:00 * andythenorth missed on ')' char 20:35:03 <andythenorth> 49 times :P 20:36:29 <NGC3982> Bummer. 20:38:47 <andythenorth> hmm 20:39:21 <andythenorth> Yexo: can you help me with a FIRS issue (arable_farm.pypnml) ? 20:39:21 * Alberth sends andy ")"*49 20:39:41 <Yexo> what needs to change? 20:39:46 <andythenorth> macro INDUSTRY_OUTPUT_CARGO_2 is failing on compile 20:39:55 <andythenorth> I'll post a diff 20:40:13 <andythenorth> gah, it's a big diff :P 20:41:01 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/raw/1861/ 20:41:12 <andythenorth> most of it is not relevant, I just touched a lot of code 20:41:39 <andythenorth> nmlc ERROR: "./sprites/nml/generated_pnml/arable_farm.pnml", line 152: Syntax error, unexpected token "if" 20:42:05 <Yexo> you remove all properties but not the line with "property {" on it 20:42:28 <andythenorth> ah 20:42:32 <andythenorth> yes 20:42:51 <andythenorth> actually the issue is missing '}' 20:42:54 <Yexo> yep 20:43:03 <andythenorth> :m 20:43:09 <Yexo> might also want to reversed the added space in front of that line 20:43:33 <andythenorth> done 20:43:40 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:05 <andythenorth> I haven't encountered these if blocks before 20:44:14 <andythenorth> is that action 6? 20:44:16 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:44:23 <Yexo> no, action 7 or 9 20:44:32 <andythenorth> ok 20:44:41 <andythenorth> I should learn about those before I go to far 20:44:41 <Yexo> and well, they use action 6 too 20:44:45 <andythenorth> they are required for economies 20:45:06 <andythenorth> economies mostly only touch the properties block 20:45:07 <Yexo> shouldn't be too hard to understand 20:45:53 <andythenorth> so my guess was I would wrap the entire item block in an action 7 or 9 20:46:00 <andythenorth> but this looks a bit smarter than that 20:46:10 <Yexo> you can do that too 20:46:35 <andythenorth> I had better read the docs before writing all code :P 20:46:47 <andythenorth> controversial :P 20:47:10 <andythenorth> a lot of the time with nml, I can code first, docs second :P 20:47:23 <Yexo> good :) 20:47:54 <Yexo> means it's intuitive enough not to fall back on the documentation for every line of code 20:48:30 <andythenorth> so I can just wrap the entire item block in if / else? 20:48:33 <andythenorth> is there an elif? 20:48:42 <Yexo> "else if" 20:48:57 <Yexo> and yes, you can do that 20:49:00 <andythenorth> or I could just do lots of 'if' ? 20:49:13 <andythenorth> this just checks the value of a parameter 20:49:34 <andythenorth> wonder if I can have 2 economies by 10pm :P 20:49:40 <Yexo> you can check whatever you want, but no varaction2 variables 20:50:24 <andythenorth> k 20:50:39 <andythenorth> hmm, there's no industry equivalent to disabling vehicles by setting climate 'none' 20:51:06 <andythenorth> nvm 20:51:22 <andythenorth> doesn't matter :P 20:53:30 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-138-119-145.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:56:50 <andythenorth> yay 20:57:09 <andythenorth> arable farm appears / disappears from map depending on parameter 20:57:26 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has joined #openttd 21:02:18 <Alberth> 48 if's to go :p 21:03:57 <andythenorth> 49 copy-pastes 21:03:57 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:02 <andythenorth> once I've worked it out 21:04:21 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:04:32 <Yexo> andythenorth: does the fishing grounds even work? 21:04:41 <andythenorth> Yexo: think so, why? 21:04:48 <Yexo> produce_cargo_arrival: THIS_ID(produce); 21:04:58 <Yexo> that callback produces exactly the same amount as there is incoming cargo 21:05:02 <andythenorth> ha 21:05:05 <Yexo> but there can't be any incoming cargo 21:05:10 <Yexo> since: accept_cargo_types: []; 21:05:15 <andythenorth> don't they produce from action 0 prop as well? 21:05:23 <Yexo> ah, of course :) 21:05:25 <andythenorth> I've been intending to look at that warning sometime :) 21:05:42 <Yexo> yes, doing that now 21:06:22 <Yexo> and done 21:06:31 <Yexo> please pull before you continue 21:07:23 <andythenorth> thanks :) 21:15:54 <andythenorth> some of the FIRS repo structure smells a bit funny now 21:16:08 <andythenorth> e.g. 'sprites/' might be better as 'src/' 21:16:18 <Yexo> that has always been the case 21:16:28 <andythenorth> and firs.pnml tells what pnml files to include, but build.py does same for python 21:16:33 <andythenorth> and firs.py is class definitions 21:16:51 <andythenorth> I don't mind, but I'm used to it :P 21:16:53 <andythenorth> seems messy 21:17:31 <Yexo> you need another pull 21:18:18 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:18:40 <andythenorth> nice 21:18:52 <andythenorth> warnings gone \o/ 21:19:03 <andythenorth> now we just need to figure out lang warnings o_O 21:19:06 <Yexo> I got bored of them :) 21:19:20 <Yexo> I think quite a big part of the language warnings are valid 21:19:21 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 21:19:25 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:19:26 <Yexo> ie need to get fixed, not ignored 21:19:29 <andythenorth> probably 21:19:34 <andythenorth> I'm snow blind to them 21:20:22 <andythenorth> constants in a global_constants.py file, right? Not in the firs.py with the class definitions? 21:20:27 * andythenorth is adding a list of economies 21:22:02 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:31 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:24:46 <Yexo> and all language warnings gone :) 21:24:54 <andythenorth> ha 21:27:46 <andythenorth> \o/ 21:28:37 <Alberth> no worries, andy will find new strings to add ;) 21:28:54 <andythenorth> :P 21:29:20 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-123-71.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 21:29:24 <Yexo> I only got rid of warnings where the translations were incompatible with the english version, nothing about untranslated strings 21:31:18 <LordAro> random offtopic followup: I think i've implemented all your suggestions, anything else? https://bitbucket.org/LordAro/extractdrs 21:33:33 <Yexo> nitpick: you can't relicense gpl v2 to gpl v3+ without permission 21:34:11 <Alberth> LordAro: line 22 in the .cpp seems useless, as the .h already makes std available 21:34:21 *** oskari892 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 21:34:31 <Alberth> I'd not import std globally though 21:34:49 <Yexo> not in a .h, in a .cpp it's not as bad 21:35:55 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:06 <Yexo> line 77: you give an error that the file is too small (on cout instead of cerr), but you continue anyway 21:36:15 <Yexo> expect crashes later 21:36:38 <Alberth> where do you define uint? 21:37:26 <andythenorth> meh 21:37:40 * andythenorth needs to avoid too much string between python and CPP :P 21:37:51 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:38:49 <Alberth> void ExtractDRSFile(string path) <-- any reason it's not "const string &path" ? 21:38:50 <Yexo> why not get rid of cpp altogether? 21:38:56 <Yexo> should be easy enough now you use python anyway 21:39:03 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:39:30 <andythenorth> Yexo: just a matter of time 21:39:40 <andythenorth> meanwhile I want to migrate with 100% working code 21:39:53 <LordAro> Yexo: gpl: thought not - i'll change it, it's no issue 21:39:57 <Alberth> LordAro: cerr is used for reporting errors normally, although windows has weird ideas about that stream :( 21:39:58 <Yexo> andythenorth: that's always good :) 21:40:02 <andythenorth> I'm not in a hurry to touch code that works right now and doesn't need changed :) 21:40:49 <Yexo> LordAro: line 98 and further: you start reading tables from the stream without checking if they fit in the buffer you've read before 21:41:39 <Yexo> line 103-105 can be replaced with: swap(tableinfos[i].extension[0], tableinfos[i].extension[2]); 21:45:39 <andythenorth> ugh 21:45:48 <andythenorth> I've invented 1 million layers of abstraction 21:45:50 <andythenorth> I dislike that 21:46:07 <Alberth> LordAro: line 79 has a different character type than line 81 21:46:51 <Alberth> line 83 will alsways only use data from the memory block? 21:46:56 <Yexo> also inconsistent with cast styles: line 81 uses a c-style cast while line 83 uses static_cast 21:47:35 <Yexo> string drstext; drstext.resize(size); file.read(drstext.c_str(), size); or something might work better 21:47:39 <Yexo> not sure if that's allowed 21:47:45 <Yexo> but at least it prevents one memcpy 21:48:16 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08e088.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 21:52:24 <Alberth> I think you should more careful checking on the data you read. You cannot trust data you get from a random file 21:54:11 <Yexo> agree with Alberth, with a "but" on the use case of the program: if it's a one-off for personal use only litter the code with some asserts about sizes, if you want even one other person to run the code, add more and better error handling 21:54:59 * Alberth agrees completely with that addition 21:56:54 <andythenorth> hmm 21:57:04 <andythenorth> no problem is too complex to solve with another class 21:58:40 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 22:00:50 <Alberth> reduce 999994 layers of abstraction? 22:02:11 <andythenorth> reduce n+1 layers of abstraction :P 22:02:28 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:03:06 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:03:46 <Rubidium> just prove you can't reduce 0 layers of abstraction and you can reduce from n to n-1 layers of abstraction and you're done ;) 22:04:48 <LordAro> "<Yexo> ...file.read(drstext.c_str(), size); or something might work better" <-- nope, 'invalid conversion from const char* to char*', any ideas? 22:05:08 <Yexo> don't use that? :p 22:05:43 <LordAro> :P 22:06:13 <Yexo> casting away the const-ness will most likely work, but it'd undefined behavior 22:07:49 <LordAro> Yexo: would this be better?, it seems to work: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1862/ 22:08:24 <Yexo> yes, that's fine 22:08:36 <Yexo> still has an extra memory copy, but I guess that's unavailable if you want to use std::string 22:08:54 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:09:13 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus] 22:09:43 <LordAro> ohp, night Alberth :L 22:10:03 <LordAro> Yexo: yes, but neater than it was :) 22:10:11 <Yexo> definitely 22:13:34 <LordAro> pushed, if you want to waste more time on my little project :) 22:14:31 <andythenorth> can I use two item() blocks to set properties, similar to using two action 0s? 22:14:38 <Yexo> got the link again? 22:14:46 <Yexo> andythenorth: yes 22:14:59 <andythenorth> great 22:15:41 <andythenorth> I didn't quite get economies done by 10pm :P 22:15:55 <andythenorth> but I've figured out framework 22:19:07 <andythenorth> don't suppose we can extend newgrf spec to give industries an explicit enable / disable property? 22:19:20 <andythenorth> makes for easier templating :P 22:19:21 <andythenorth> maybe 22:20:10 * andythenorth -> bed 22:20:12 <andythenorth> good night 22:20:23 <Terkhen> good night andythenorth 22:20:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:22:48 *** oskari892 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:29:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:29:30 <andythenorth> does an nml if statement work ok with integer logic? 22:29:42 <andythenorth> e.g. "if (param[0] == 1 || 2 || 3)" 22:30:21 <Yexo> the 2 and 3 in that context are supposed to be boolean 22:30:41 <Yexo> but in fact there is no real boolean logic in nml, it's all integer logic 22:31:01 <Yexo> false==0 and true==1, but every integer !=0 evaluates to true 22:31:07 <andythenorth> :) 22:31:12 <andythenorth> hmm 22:31:14 <andythenorth> I need to sleep 22:31:19 <andythenorth> I think I have questions tomorrow :P 22:31:31 <andythenorth> I have working economies, but fugly templating 22:31:32 <andythenorth> nvm 22:31:34 <andythenorth> sleep 22:31:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:34:21 <LordAro> ...again 22:42:14 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-138-119-145.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0/20121023124120]] 22:42:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by yexo :: r24660 trunk/src/engine.cpp (2012-11-01 22:42:29 UTC) 22:42:36 <DorpsGek> -Feature: do not display the preview window for disabled vehicle types (Eagle_rainbow) 22:49:56 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:52:12 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:54:59 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19570.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:43 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:55:51 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:57:57 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:04:15 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:05:22 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:05:39 <Terkhen> good night :) 23:05:46 <Supercheese> Vale, dormiture 23:05:54 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-30-188.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 23:05:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 23:07:50 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:16 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:09:51 <Yexo> good night 23:10:06 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:09 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-76-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:17:28 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:18:34 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:19:02 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:50:21 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]