Log for #openttd on 18th November 2012:
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00:04:06  <Nat_aS> hi
00:04:12  <Nat_aS> it's been a while
00:04:23  <Nat_aS> what's new in OTTD land?
00:06:11  <Zuu> depends on since when
00:08:00  <Nat_aS> uhh, a long time
00:08:10  <Nat_aS> lets just say since 2012 started
00:08:17  <Nat_aS> have there been any new features
00:08:34  <Zuu> You could look at the changelog for 1.2 :-)
00:09:02  <Zuu> I guess the largest news is probably that we have Game Scripts in 1.2 and trunk.
00:09:45  <Zuu> Eg. get "beginner tutorial, or "neighbours are important" from bananas and have fun :-)
00:09:46  <Nat_aS> ahh cool
00:09:58  <Nat_aS> nothing major though
00:10:09  <Nat_aS> I forget, does cargodist have a channel?
00:10:11  <Zuu> What is major is highly subjective
00:11:08  <Nat_aS> lol
00:12:12  <Zuu> There is also the zBase 32bpp base set that you can get from bananas if that is what makes you go wow :-)
00:12:37  <Nat_aS> as in high res graphics that are just traced renders?
00:12:39  <Nat_aS> Ick
00:13:02  <Zuu> High res graphics from blender or so.
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00:17:19  <Zuu> Anyhow, for trunk there is "NoCarGoal" and "Silicon Valley" which are two game scripts that enables quick and interesting goal games.
00:18:05  <Zuu> And as the GS thingy is just a framework anyone with some good ideas can create further scripts.
00:18:29  <Nat_aS> I just tried Locomotion again
00:18:36  <Zuu> yeah, some progamming knowledge is good too... :-)
00:18:38  <Nat_aS> I wanted to give it a chance
00:18:46  <Nat_aS> it's still horrible
00:18:53  <Nat_aS> the trains have the worst pathfinding ever
00:19:02  <Nat_aS> and you can't build complex signal types
00:19:16  <Zuu> Oh and as for trains, have you tried the NUTS set?
00:19:32  <Nat_aS> not to my recolection
00:19:36  <Nat_aS> is it done now?
00:19:42  <Nat_aS> I know it was under construction last time
00:19:45  <Zuu> It is playable and quite interesting.
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01:18:24  <NGC3982> Evening.
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02:47:08  <Kylie> hi all
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07:33:38  <Terkhen> good morning
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09:17:31  <planetmaker> moin
09:18:17  <Eddi|zuHause> "we have put ten differences in this picture, can you spot them?"
09:20:45  * planetmaker ponders. The engine got a livery refit. The animation stage of the station changed. The railtype was converted....
09:24:14  <planetmaker> so only 3 differences, Eddi|zuHause :-)
09:24:32  <Terkhen> the picture files have different names :P
09:24:38  <Eddi|zuHause> the bridge in the background changed
09:24:45  <Eddi|zuHause> the sky got brighter
09:24:54  <Eddi|zuHause> the s-bahn train is missing
09:25:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the wagon yard in the background changed
09:25:14  <Eddi|zuHause> the baggage car is missing
09:25:30  <Eddi|zuHause> the train changed direction
09:26:04  <Eddi|zuHause> and there's a green arrow in the second picture :)
09:26:19  <planetmaker> :D
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09:28:05  <Alberth> moin
09:28:32  <planetmaker> hi Alberth
09:28:58  <Eddi|zuHause> (picture shows Berlin, Warschauer Straße, in case abyone can't read the sign :) )
09:29:11  <Eddi|zuHause> *anyone
09:31:12  <Alberth> the first picture is 10 times more beautiful
09:31:24  <planetmaker> :-)
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10:28:25  <Eddi|zuHause> "Add text filter to load savegame/scenario/heightmap GUI. (similar to NewGRF GUI; wrt. "save" see "hard tasks")" <- since we now have multiple edit boxes (i heard), the "save" part shouldn't be hard anymore
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10:33:59  * Alberth is confused how load and save are connected
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10:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause> the save window already had an edit box for the savegame name
10:35:59  <Eddi|zuHause> the load window didn't have an edit box before
10:36:22  <Eddi|zuHause> thus you could easily add an edit box to the load window, but not the save window
10:37:55  <Alberth> to me, the problem under 'hard tasks' is about saving the gui information, not about a 2nd editbox
10:38:07  <Alberth> which I can imagine as being hard
10:38:56  <Eddi|zuHause> saving the gui status is filed under medium tasks on this page:
10:39:38  <Alberth> yeah, I was reading the wrong part, sorry
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10:43:29  <Alberth> I don't see how that task is useful tbh, perhaps we should remove it.
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11:17:56  <Zuu> It could be useful if you want to save over some file which you only remember the name partially and the save list is long. Though, I agree on that the load filter is probably more useful.
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12:06:57  <__ln__> гППЎ ЌПрМОМгь
12:07:40  <Eddi|zuHause> latin alphabet only! :p
12:11:04  <Rubidium> vhy mvst yov?
12:11:53  <__ln__> that demand is not ivstified
12:12:42  <Rubidium> if yov vant to obey that rvle yov mvst be named Eddi|zvHavse
12:15:13  <Eddi|zuHause> extended latin alphabet only! ;)
12:16:05  <Eddi|zuHause> (you would have needed to use capital letters, anyway :))
12:17:30  <Ammler> is the encoding a channel setting?
12:18:28  <Eddi|zuHause> the channel does not know anything about encoding, it's purely client side
12:19:17  <Eddi|zuHause> the channel/server only processes byte streams
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14:20:31  <DanMacK> Hey all
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14:27:45  <Alberth> o/
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14:48:52  <Superuser> Translation question for everyone
14:48:53  <Superuser> {BIG_FONT}{WHITE}{PRESIDENT_NAME} of {COMPANY} achieves '{STRING}' status!
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14:49:15  <Superuser> Can I use {G "he" "she" ""} (in my language ofc) before {PRESIDENT_NAME}
14:49:24  <Mikk36> Hey
14:49:38  <Superuser> it doesn't exist in the original token so I'm not sure if it's allowed
14:49:47  <Mikk36> Is it just me having skipping sound effects in game?
14:49:47  <Superuser> this is a hell of a lot more versatile than gettext but still
14:49:53  <Mikk36> Using the default OpenSFX pack
14:50:02  <Mikk36> Most common is missing the income sound
14:50:07  <Superuser> what Operating System are you using Mikk36?
14:50:14  <Mikk36> Win7x64
14:50:39  <Superuser> hmm it should be working. I'm no MIDI expert though, so  Ican't help you there :)
14:51:09  <Mikk36> sometimes i hear them, but most of the time they skip
14:53:21  <Superuser> Please get me in touch with a developer for my translation question which is further above. Cheers. The token in question is
14:53:37  <Superuser> So I'll just leave that message here till someone comes along and does the old !log
14:55:14  <__ln__> Superuser: can't you just try if it works or not?
14:55:52  <Superuser> No, at least not without recompiling
14:55:59  <Superuser> as I understand it the translation file needs to be committed back to the repository before I can see it
14:56:21  <Superuser> only the webmaster has access to that, I believe. And anyway, not a fan of compiling at all -.-
15:01:08  <__ln__> what's the worst that can happen if you change it in the translator, wait a few days for a nightly build, and if it doesn't work as expected, revert it?
15:02:27  <Superuser> Huh, not a bad idea
15:02:51  <Superuser> though it would be nice if I could get an answer right now, as this could affect the entire translation
15:05:30  <Superuser> oh boy, found an upstream error in the translation
15:05:48  <Superuser> a map legend should always have the text in singular form
15:06:18  <Superuser> OpenTTD's map legend is... inconsistent. Some parts are in singular, others in plural
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15:15:27  <Alberth> Superuser: if your language has genders, it should work
15:15:44  <Superuser> Great!
15:16:05  <Superuser> But are you 100% sure? The original has no gender parameter or whatever the {G} thing is called
15:17:05  <Alberth> I can try, what should I change?
15:17:55  <Alberth> ie what file?
15:19:45  <Superuser>
15:19:50  <Superuser> if that's what you mean
15:20:47  <Alberth> openttd/play/src/lang/greek.txt:754: warning: STR_SMALLMAP_CAPTION: Param idx #0 'PRESIDENT_NAME' doesn't match with template command 'STRING'  <-- I am afraid it doesn't work, I hacked
15:20:48  <Alberth> STR_SMALLMAP_CAPTION                                            :{WHITE}{G "he" "she" ""}{PRESIDENT_NAME}
15:21:16  <Alberth> but it does sound like a good feature you may want to have
15:21:44  <Superuser> yep
15:22:04  <Superuser> the sentence doesn't make sense without the gender in front of the prez's name
15:22:24  <Superuser> so I guess I'll roll it back, I'll keep it bookmarked though in case you decide to change it :)
15:22:46  <Alberth> I'll add the feature to the todo list at the wiki
15:23:11  <Superuser> AFAIK it should work just by changing the token in the code
15:23:19  <Superuser> it will, however, break every single translation
15:23:26  <Superuser> if you change it
15:24:38  <Superuser> Anyway, OpenTTD's support of translations is really impressive. I've been in the OSS translation field (I should really go professional one of these days...) for years, never have I come across such a thorough system
15:25:07  <Alberth> It won't break anything afaik, the {G ..} thingie is optional
15:26:11  <Alberth> ie it reads a parameter, but does 'eat' it, so the parameter is still available for use by the 'real' use.
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15:27:59  <Alberth> added, 3rd item
15:28:32  <Alberth> Superuser: yeah, I don't understand why gettext doesn't have it
15:29:24  <Alberth> (I looked at gettext some time ago and it was missing some things)
15:29:25  <Superuser> Two reasons: firstly, it is terribly outdated and has been around since the 1980s, and secondly, it is made by Americans :)
15:30:11  <Yexo> <Alberth> openttd/play/src/lang/greek.txt:754: warning: STR_SMALLMAP_CAPTION: Param idx #0 'PRESIDENT_NAME' doesn't match with template command 'STRING'  <-- I am afraid it doesn't work, I hacked <- that test is wrong
15:30:25  <Alberth> :o
15:30:29  <Superuser> Qt's .ts and the XML-based XLIFF format are just the same actually
15:30:33  <Yexo> Alberth: the error you get there is because you substituted {STRING} with {PRESIDENT_NAME}, which is not valid
15:30:41  <Yexo> {"PRESIDENT_NAME",    EmitSingleChar, SCC_PRESIDENT_NAME,     1, C_NONE | C_GENDER}, <- from strgen_tables.h
15:30:50  <Yexo> it's listed there as having a gender, so it should work
15:31:03  <Yexo> that doesn't mean it will work though ;)
15:31:05  <Alberth> oh, of course!
15:31:29  <Alberth> Superuser: so please test the feature, revert the revert :)
15:31:33  <Alberth> thanks Yexo!
15:32:08  <Yexo> Superuser: with regard to testing: if you download from there and english.txt from the repo you can easily create the .lng files yourself and test that way
15:33:27  <Superuser> the last one was generated in 2011...
15:33:28  <Alberth> Superuser: I was looking into making a more generic translation service, and being able to leverage gettext would be awesome
15:33:29  <Yexo> looking at strings.cpp I'm pretty sure it won't actually work, but I'll do some testing
15:33:51  <Alberth> Superuser: strgen does not change very often
15:34:32  <Yexo> it's been updated this year though
15:34:41  <Yexo> TrueBrain: is still supposed to be valid?
15:34:50  <Yexo> if not, could you remove the url / mention it's outdated on that page
15:34:56  <Yexo> if it is, please update the CF to build strgen
15:36:24  <Superuser> BTW, who actually ensures consistency amongst the strings used in the game? I've found a couple of upstream errors.
15:36:43  <Superuser> Though only someone like me would notice them, as they are very minor
15:36:48  <Yexo> for translations the individual translators are responsible for that
15:37:01  <Yexo> for UK English all devs try to maintain consistency
15:37:06  <Superuser> No, I mean errors in the English source file
15:37:37  <Yexo> in any case: please do report errors
15:37:49  <Superuser> there should be a space between 'Summary' and the forward slash (/) that follows it
15:37:57  <Superuser> yes, literally that small, haha
15:38:20  <Yexo> locally fixed
15:38:41  <Superuser> yes, I fixed it :-)
15:39:21  <Yexo> I meant to say: I've fixed it locally in my repo, which means I'll commit it when I have some more
15:39:31  <Yexo> You can't change the English strings
15:39:44  <Superuser> oh I thought you meant the translated token
15:40:04  <Superuser> sorry about calling them tokens, I'm just used to gettext
15:42:50  <Superuser> just wondering, road vehicles can only crash with trains, right? Never with each other or with aeroplanes falling from the sky?
15:43:28  <Yexo> correct
15:44:26  <Superuser> it would be awesome though if the latter could actually happen. OpenTTD would definitely earn the NetHack distinction of 'The Dev Team thinks of everything' on TVTropes
15:45:27  <Alberth> it seems to always select the first gender
15:45:53  <Alberth> which is a bug :)
15:47:51  <Yexo> I was trying to fix it but now I realize it's not easy
15:48:21  <Yexo> there is no mapping from "male/female" (which is defined for faces which we could use) to the genders used by translations
15:48:56  <Yexo> all current translations seems to use "male female ...others..." in that order, so mapping to 0/1 works
15:49:00  <Yexo> but that feels like a very big hack
15:50:19  <Superuser> Can towns have genders?
15:50:43  <Yexo> no
15:50:49  <Superuser> Ouch.
15:50:55  <Yexo> hmm, sorry
15:50:59  <Yexo> strgen says they can
15:51:11  <Yexo> but I don't think any of the default translations has genders for towns
15:51:33  <Superuser> I s'pose
15:51:44  <Yexo> And a NewGRF townname wouldn't be able to provide them since town names are not translatable
15:51:49  <Superuser> Though I know that the German language has genders and there is a German-language town-naming scheme in OpenTTD
15:52:13  <Yexo> Superuser: sure, but you can use german town names combined with the greek language
15:52:26  <Yexo> in which case gender mappings are not trivial or even possible
15:52:37  <Alberth> town names are also often constructed from random parts
15:53:07  <Superuser> yeah I guess
15:53:15  <Superuser> so it'll just have to sound awkard :)
15:58:08  <Yexo> <- with this diff the {PRESIDENT_NAME} really has a gender
15:58:21  <Yexo> but as said before: it's a hack that assumes 0 means male and 1 female
16:00:30  <Superuser> Would this work for this string as well?
16:00:43  <Yexo> that's the one I tested it on
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16:00:53  <Superuser> sehr gut
16:02:38  <Yexo> wrt genders for town names: how would that work conceptually?
16:02:53  <Yexo> can those genders be defined in a language-agnostic way?
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16:06:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really know where german town names' genders would be relevant. except in special cases as "the bronx"
16:06:39  <Superuser> In {G}, some previous translators did not separate gender casese with quotation marks. Should these have quotes added around each gender case?
16:06:54  <Superuser> or word in general, it's a very flexible system.
16:07:03  <Yexo> the quotes are optional and only required if you want to use } or spaces
16:07:28  <Superuser> okay
16:07:35  <Yexo> or an empty string, which without quotes would not be different from nothing
16:07:54  <Superuser> I'll add them anyway as they are more expressive
16:10:53  <Superuser> {BIG_FONT}{BLACK}New {STRING} being planted near {TOWN}!
16:11:05  <Superuser> NEVER seen this message before, and I'm pretty sure you can't fund forests...
16:11:17  <michi_cc> I don't think defining genders language-agnostic is really feasible. How do you define something if one language has masculine/feminin, another human/non-human, animate/inanimate or male (human)/anything else?
16:12:21  <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: there is an option to fund primary industries (forests, mines, farms, plantations)
16:12:24  <Superuser> at least it works for Indo-European languages, probably
16:12:51  <Superuser> wow I had no idea, how do you do that?
16:14:04  <Yexo> it's used for forest, fruit plantation, rubber plantation and cotton candy forest by default
16:14:17  <Yexo> Superuser: there is an option in the advanced settings window, I think under "economy->industries"
16:14:36  <Alberth> it is there indeed
16:14:38  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24754 trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp (2012-11-18 16:14:31 UTC)
16:14:39  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5367]: crash on corrupted savegame
16:14:46  <TrueBrain> Yexo: talk to Rubidium about those things
16:14:52  <Superuser> Ahhh, thanks
16:15:28  <Superuser> Not that I actually fund industries, it's not terribly difficult to have won the game by then and in MP others do it for you :) (but I never win at MP games, ever)
16:15:48  <TrueBrain> Yexo: those download pages sync with finger. Rubidium always keeps finger in sync with reality ;)
16:16:09  <TrueBrain> (I am not in touch with OpenTTD development as such, so I wouldn't know what is valid and what is not ;))
16:16:25  <Yexo> lists the same version as on the download page, so that is in sync indeed
16:16:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose the build of strgen was just not triggered automatically
16:17:24  <Superuser> {G 0:2 Ο Η ΀ο} <--- what on earth is 0:2 meant to mean?
16:17:31  <Rubidium> strgen there is meant for those that don't have a compiler and want to locally work on string changes/improvements
16:17:33  <TrueBrain> and I wouldn't know if it should or not; I have others telling me that :D
16:17:36  <Yexo> Superuser: second substring of first string
16:17:43  <Rubidium> so it should still be functioning
16:18:02  <Superuser> I'm thinking of Python's slicing feature, but I know little about scripting anyway...
16:18:33  <Yexo> Superuser: the string that has that {G 0:2} should also have a {STRINGn} in there, with n being a number
16:18:51  <TrueBrain> Ammler / planetmaker / whoever: almost every day hg.openttdcoop gives a 504: Gateway timeout
16:19:03  <Rubidium> r24668 seems to be the last rev that should exist
16:19:04  <Yexo> the {STRINGn} is a substring with n arguments, the 2 means it refers to the second (maybe third) argument for that substring
16:19:05  <Superuser> it doesn't and it doesn't make sense. It's used for when an industry announced imminent closure
16:19:18  <Superuser> in this particular case
16:19:29  <Superuser> so I guess I'll just have to remove the 0:2
16:19:49  <Yexo> wait a minute, which exact string is that?
16:20:02  <Superuser>
16:20:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: why remove something that you have no clue what it does?
16:20:19  <Superuser> because I just (I think) figured out what it does
16:20:36  <Superuser> thanks to the ever helpful Yexo
16:20:45  <Superuser> Yexo, the master of regex
16:20:49  <Eddi|zuHause> {INDUSTRY} probably has substrings as well (town name, industry name)
16:21:10  <Yexo> indeed
16:21:23  <Yexo> the 0:2 is there because it wants the gender of the industry
16:21:59  <Yexo> the {STRING2} is in english.txt, all translations just have {STRING}
16:22:11  <Ammler> TrueBrain: we are aware of that, testing different hg servers for the big 32bpp ez repos
16:22:13  <Superuser> would that not be required for every use of {G} then?
16:22:37  <TrueBrain> Ammler: every day for the past week?
16:22:39  <Ammler> kinda thought, I found something good with rhodecode :-)
16:22:47  <Superuser> so 0:1 for first two genders
16:22:54  <Yexo> Superuser: by default G refers to the next parameter
16:22:54  <Superuser> 0 for the first, et al
16:23:10  <TrueBrain> s/week/two weeks/
16:23:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: there are some defaults which usually don't need to be overridden
16:23:18  <Yexo> {STRING3} {INDUSTRY} {PRESIDENT_NAME} {G x}
16:23:54  <Ammler> TrueBrain: how frequently does your cf pull?
16:24:05  <TrueBrain> it has 200+ errors in 2 weeks
16:24:07  <Superuser> oh I see, it just ignores {BIG_FONT}, {BLACK} and itself, then
16:24:08  <TrueBrain> so I would guess every hour
16:24:08  <Yexo> {G 0} would refer to {STRING3}, {G 0:1} refers to the second argument of the {STRING3}, {G 1} refers to {INDUSTRY}, {G 2} refers to {PRESIDENT_NAME}, {G no_number} is not valid since there is no value after it
16:24:28  <Yexo> yes, BIG_FONT, BLACK (and other colors) etc. which don't accept any parameters are ignored
16:24:43  <Superuser> ... or I should just give up trying to understand this stuff, as it flies way over my head.
16:24:53  <Superuser> Thanks for the copious explanation though.
16:25:05  <Ammler> TrueBrain: we still run the hgweb via
16:26:24  <Ammler> hmm, but maybe we should rollback hg.o.o to hgweb and search something else :-(
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16:28:59  <Ammler> TrueBrain: what backend do you use for hgweb?
16:29:13  <Superuser> err, guys, EMU doesn't stand for European Monetary Union, it stands for Economic and Monetary Union.
16:29:38  <Superuser> Please correct this in STR_NEWS_EURO_INTRODUCTION
16:30:11  <Superuser> The cynic in me wonders just how long it will last
16:30:27  <MNIM> no, EMU stands for Electrical Multiple Unit!
16:30:29  <MNIM> tssssk
16:30:34  <MNIM> in #openttd no less.
16:30:51  <Superuser> xD
16:31:26  <TrueBrain> Ammler: hgweb.cgi, I am guessing
16:34:45  <Rubidium> Superuser: Superuser where does that news message speak about the EMU?
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16:35:08  <Superuser> when you currency changes to the Euro
16:35:15  <Rubidium> it just speaks about a European monetary union, which the Euro defacto is.
16:35:25  <Rubidium> the EMU is from well before the actual introduction of the Euro
16:35:36  <Superuser> Nevertheless, the actual name is the Economic and Monetary Union
16:35:48  <Superuser> the American media calls it that to avoid confusion
16:35:57  <Superuser>
16:39:49  <Rubidium> Superuser: if we call it Economic and Monetary Union, then the UK must be part of it as well
16:40:06  <Rubidium> and the news message would imply that the UK would have the Euro as well
16:40:10  <Superuser> UK has an opt-out of both the ERM and ERM-II and the EMU...
16:40:27  <Superuser> afaik it doesn't come up with gbp
16:41:11  <Rubidium> after all you only have the Euro after entering the third EMU stage
16:42:45  <Rubidium> ah well, otherwise you still have Denmark, Latvia and Lithuania in the first or second EMU stage
16:44:03  <Rubidium> but by the looks of it, the UK is in the EMU with a special clause where they are not forced to go to EMU stage 3
16:44:49  <Rubidium> as a result I would say "Economic and Monetary Union: The euro is introduced" is worse than
16:45:02  <Rubidium> "European monetary union: The euro is introduced"
16:45:33  <Superuser> I think you'd need to have a very poor appreciation of context to be confused by that.
16:46:46  <Superuser> BTW, you were thinking of the EEC, not the EMU when you said it had been around since before the EMU (which introduced the European Central Bank and so on)
16:47:21  <Rubidium> ah well... in a sense all currencies in OpenTTD are in the second stage of EMU
16:49:07  <Rubidium> EMU started in 1990, Euro was introduced in 2002
16:51:58  <NGC3982> No gold-pressed latinum, though. :/.
16:52:00  <NGC3982> -.
16:56:19  <Superuser> oh well, I translated to Economic and Monetary Union anyway, not only because it's more correct, but also because 'European Monetary Union' doesn't exist as a term in Greece
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16:58:54  <Rubidium> how would you translate "greek political union: greek politic parties unite on XYZ"?
16:59:21  <Superuser> HAHAHAHAHA
16:59:33  <Superuser> +1
17:00:20  <Rubidium> the union in the news message is the "act of uniting or joing two or more things into one", not "a confederation of independent nations for a common purpose"
17:01:27  <Rubidium> in the latter case you would be correct that European monetary union is incorrect, in the former case it's not as they really united at that point in a monetary union, i.e. the Euro
17:02:20  <Superuser> It doesn't matter. It's talking about a real-life historical event. The Economic and Monetary Union of the EU exists specifically for the Eurozone
17:02:26  <Yexo> if it's not a name shouldn't it be spelled as "Economic and monetary union" instead of "Economic and Monetary Union"?
17:02:54  <Superuser> so the definition is irrelevant, we're talking about a real-life organisation that brands itself that way. Hence, Economic and Monetary Union!
17:03:08  <Eddi|zuHause> how about calling it "European Economic and Monetary Union"?
17:03:37  <Superuser> That is incorrect, that's the problem
17:03:37  <Superuser>
17:04:02  <Superuser> the 'of the European Union' is added to distinguish the article from the general term
17:04:08  <Superuser> AFK.
17:04:11  *** Superuser is now known as Superuser|AFK
17:04:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: "european" is not a part of the name, it's a qualification, there might as well be an american one or an african one
17:04:31  <Rubidium> ugh...
17:04:59  <Rubidium> why is it so hard to understand the subtle nuance between the unite and united meaning of union?
17:05:04  <Superuser|AFK> Yeah, I was saying that since we mention the Euro it's obvious which one the game is referring to. AFK for real now, lol
17:05:28  <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser|AFK: and we were saying you're alone with that opinion
17:06:09  <Rubidium> so, could just as well replace monetary with currency
17:06:24  <Rubidium> wouldn't change the meaning of the sentence, except for Superuser
17:06:39  <Eddi|zuHause> could be also a way :)
17:08:45  <Rubidium> or...
17:09:39  <Rubidium> we use "Economic and monetary union: if all goes well the euro will be introduced as sole currency in your country in X years"
17:10:03  <Rubidium> and then show the message in 1990 (or later depending on when the country joined the EMU)
17:11:50  <Rubidium> interestingly enough, in OpenTTD, all currencies fullfil the rules for the the third stage of EMU
17:12:47  <APTX> Rubidium: aren't they all related to the pound?
17:12:55  <Rubidium> i.e. fixed exchange rates to the Euro
17:13:22  <Rubidium> APTX: that still leaves a fixed exchange rate to the Euro
17:13:54  <APTX> that's funny as gbp doesn't fulfill the criteria :P
17:15:27  <V453000> Hi, vehicle_is_reversed	 [0 | 1]	 No	 Value is 1 if the vehicle has reversed an odd number of times <--- does this apply also when the vehicle is reversed by the FLIP in the depot by ctrl+click?
17:18:46  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: no, that has a separate variable
17:19:56  <V453000> hm dont you by chance remember which variable that is?
17:21:42  <Eddi|zuHause> hm. i don't remember the last time that was discussed
17:22:20  * Rubidium hopes when I was absent ;)
17:26:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you can read that from var48
17:26:43  <V453000> I am not sure what do you mean by that, but if I want to make flipped trains have like an info sprite on them - like an arrow -, does using extra_callback_info1 help, or is there any other variable I am missing?
17:27:46  <Eddi|zuHause> no, var 48+80
17:28:27  <Eddi|zuHause> return HasBit(Train::From(v)->flags, VRF_REVERSE_DIRECTION) ? 0xFE : 0xFD;
17:28:46  <Eddi|zuHause> so 0xFD for normal, 0xFE for reversed
17:31:36  <V453000> is that in NML?
17:32:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see it
17:32:39  <Eddi|zuHause> but you can access arbitrary vars with "var[num, shift, mask]"
17:32:40  *** Superuser|AFK is now known as Superuser
17:33:20  <Superuser> Eddi|zuHause, Rubidium: oh well, the whole debate was about something completely pedantic, no idea why you got so worked up about it
17:33:39  <Superuser> I still think it's more legitimate, but if you genuinely think it's confusing, the choice is yours. I have no commit access.
17:34:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: because it was about someting completely pedantic, and imho made the message less clear
17:34:40  <Superuser> Not really, but I don't think there's much point in arguing this anymore. Sudo end bickering.
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17:36:32  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: actually, i think this is the wrong one as well
17:37:08  <V453000> :D :)
17:39:30  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's right
17:41:17  <Eddi|zuHause> VRF_REVERSE_DIRECTION is the ctrl+click flip and VRF_TOGGLE_REVERSE is the automatic reverse-in-stations/end-of-track/button-in-train-window
17:41:27  <V453000> I am still trying to find it on the tt-wiki
17:41:29  <Eddi|zuHause> naming could be improved
17:42:11  <Eddi|zuHause> C8  B  Sprite type; FD for trains forward, FE or FF when reversed
17:43:16  <V453000> ah I see it
17:44:57  <Eddi|zuHause> this flag doesn't seem to be set for the rear part of a multiheaded vehicle, is this intended?
17:45:24  <V453000> hm well multihead cant flip
17:45:36  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the second part is automatically flipped
17:45:51  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure where or how
17:45:56  <V453000> yeah but you cant use the flip feature on it
17:46:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
17:46:14  <Eddi|zuHause> but the newgrf might still want to know whether it's drawing the flipped version
17:46:26  <V453000> that is true
17:55:40  <V453000> what is the shift,mask in the var[num, shift, mask] ? I am trying something like
17:55:57  <V453000> does that make any sense?
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17:57:30  <Eddi|zuHause> shift and mask are the same as for NFO variables, i.e. 0 and 0xFF for a byte variable. no idea if nml has that as default
17:57:45  <Eddi|zuHause> it's kind of a hidden feature :)
17:59:14  <Eddi|zuHause>
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18:03:23  <V453000> does that mean I can ignore the shift and mask?
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18:06:09  <Yexo> NML doesn't do byte variables, only 32-bit sized variables
18:06:17  <Yexo> so use 0 and 0xFF respectively for byte-sized vars
18:07:02  <V453000> uhm what does byte variable mean?
18:07:19  <Yexo> variable that is 8 bits wide
18:07:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the "B" in the NFO table
18:07:52  <Yexo> so use var[0xC8, 0, 0xFF]
18:08:48  <V453000> ohhh
18:09:27  <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't really matter for openttd, as it always returns dword sized variables, but ttdpatch may have funny effects :)
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18:10:16  <V453000> looks like it is compiling, lets see the outcome :)
18:11:39  <V453000> :D it works
18:11:40  <V453000> thank you
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18:20:35  <Ammler> TrueBrain: I switched back default hg backend to hgweb I will take the timeout errors in the log a bit more serious in the future ;-)
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18:45:32  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24755 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2012-11-18 18:45:23 UTC)
18:45:33  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:34  <DorpsGek> greek - 105 changes by Evropi
18:45:35  <DorpsGek> hungarian - 2 changes by IPG
18:45:36  <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 11 changes by Stabilitronas
18:45:37  <DorpsGek> swedish - 1 changes by Joel_A
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19:32:19  <Nat_aS> does cargodist have it's own channel?
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19:39:36  <Yexo> no
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19:50:56  <andythenorth> Yexo: can you replicate the rather large bug with CHIPS non-track tiles? o_O
19:52:00  <__ln__> ferrari is communicating in italian to f. alonso
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19:57:25  <NGC3982> Ayaya! Speedapa mistar allanza!
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20:07:48  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: why wouldn't they?
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20:56:25  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: dunno, because radio traffic has been otherwise english only
20:57:05  <__ln__> i wonder if the texasian audience was impressed by how well lewis hamilton spoke english
21:00:27  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean american? :)
21:03:35  <__ln__> that too
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21:24:29  <Terkhen> good night
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23:00:06  <__ln__> does anyone know what's "short circuit" (noun) in latin?
23:01:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think they had words for electricity :)
23:01:58  <__ln__> damn
23:02:12  <Eddi|zuHause> but i never learned latin
23:03:40  <glx> but "curtus circuitus" should be equivalent
23:04:42  <__ln__> gratias
23:05:05  <glx> (based on french court-circuit)
23:06:25  <Eddi|zuHause> somehow that reminds me of "schwanzus longus"
23:07:15  <Eddi|zuHause> [which is from the life of brian]
23:08:37  *** kero [] has joined #openttd
23:08:41  * __ln__ is thinking about a name for a piece of software he's thinking of writing
23:09:40  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
23:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause> wait, you already program _before_ you have a name?
23:17:03  <__ln__> you could call it a proof-of-concept of an empty application window. choosing a name is of course a blocker for creating an svn repo.
23:19:06  <__ln__> the BeOS api for GUI applications seems quite nice actually.
23:24:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder if i still have my collection of programs named "x", "xx", "xxx" ...
23:24:47  <Eddi|zuHause> 8 letters were so limiting back then :)
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23:28:47  <__ln__> coming up with names is a hard task in general
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