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00:01:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that sentence does not parse 00:01:30 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:17 <Stimrol> what I am trying to say is does the autopilot.tcl stop because it is not given enough time to finish starting openttd because the crontab script is done running. Would it maybe change anything adding sleep to the end of the script 00:04:31 <Stimrol> this is even more complicated sentence :) 00:05:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6DA5D.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:25 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-5d857922.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:05:45 <Maedhros> it shouldn't make any difference 00:06:40 <Maedhros> i don't think cron works that way -- the commands it starts should continue until *they* stop 00:06:44 <Maedhros> it won't stop them for you 00:07:24 <Stimrol> I am google running tcl script with google, and it seams to have to do with enviroments like Eddi says, but I dont know what more enviroments it needs than the path, and I run the program from full path 00:11:17 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B6EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:25 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has joined #openttd 00:14:45 <Supercheese> Oy gevalt: http://www.simuscape.net/simutalk/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=377#p4433 00:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause> no such content 00:15:47 <Supercheese> Likely registered only 00:16:04 <Supercheese> Lemme link the crazy parts 00:17:15 <Supercheese> Actually, no, not worth linking 00:17:24 <Supercheese> drama is bad⢠00:22:26 <Eddi|zuHause> when was simuscape ever not drama? 00:23:45 <Supercheese> yeah, anything I link has basically been covered before 00:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i really don't care anymore... let them have their shut-in monastery 00:30:13 <peter1138> daemontools might be a reasonable tool for running openttd servers 00:30:35 <peter1138> djb's tools 00:30:56 <peter1138> not the cdrom drive emulator that is weirdly named daemon tools for whatever stupid reason 00:33:00 <Eddi|zuHause> if autopilot catches sighup, you might also send that from a cronjob, avoiding all the other mess 00:33:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (i'm sure there are more crazy workarounds of that sort) 00:39:03 <Stimrol> I use SIGQUIT to stop it so sighup is maybe there also 00:45:16 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d0822e4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 00:52:54 <Stimrol> this is more complicated than I thought, probably because I dont know programming. But I thought I could scratch my way around some problems 00:55:09 <Stimrol> dont know how to make SIGHUP.tcl run, the other is done by calling "/ap-signal.sh SCHED_QUIT" but ap-signal is used for kill commands only and halts if autopilot is not running 01:01:21 <Stimrol> and probably even to late to be wondering about this problems :) 01:15:45 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:16:48 <Supercheese> Man, at 4x zoom vehicles sure "jump" when moving 01:16:54 <Supercheese> stop-motion 01:23:10 <__ln__> so, umm, yo, season 5 of breaking bad started in july, continued until september, and will continue next july. wtf, yo? 01:27:03 <Stimrol> Eddi|zuHause, SIGHUP doesnt reload openttd, so it still keeps running the old version, have to shut down to make newest nightly build available 01:27:17 <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=167931 01:28:08 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:28:20 <Stimrol> nice 01:28:35 <Supercheese> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgolfier#Manned_flight 01:29:20 <Supercheese> Rendered from http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=969b33987c291e03a4ac4a98c8485637 01:29:56 <Stimrol> well done 01:39:02 <Supercheese> Next on the list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giffard_dirigible 01:56:32 <Stimrol> good night 01:56:38 <Supercheese> 'night 02:04:59 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-063-059.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 02:14:57 <peter1138> hmm 02:15:05 <peter1138> 32bpp 4x eh 02:21:31 <Supercheese> indeed 02:22:55 <peter1138> what's the range on that? 02:22:56 <peter1138> :p 02:23:06 <Supercheese> eyecandy, no range 02:23:12 <Supercheese> no running cost, no purchase 02:23:24 <peter1138> heh 02:23:40 <peter1138> eyecandy vehicles? is that even a thing? 02:23:49 * Supercheese is sort of the eyecandy vehicles dude 02:24:10 <Supercheese> I've been gathering ideas and sprites steadily over the past year or so 02:24:30 <peter1138> damn, that's big 02:24:54 <Supercheese> 50ft in diameter, IIRC 02:25:06 <Supercheese> 49ft, I was close 02:25:15 <Supercheese> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1783_balloonj.jpg 02:25:24 <peter1138> yeah that's what i'm on 02:25:56 <Supercheese> â75 ft tall 02:26:08 * Supercheese is off to dinner 02:26:15 <peter1138> aeronaut is a nice word 03:15:02 <Supercheese> Ouch, new Simuscape license even disallows decoding the grf 03:15:19 * Supercheese promptly violates the license 03:16:22 * peter1138 tuts 03:16:39 <peter1138> it's not that CC license anymore? 03:16:44 <Supercheese> she changed 03:16:53 <Supercheese> SAC is a she, no? 03:17:01 <Supercheese> http://www.simuscape.net/simutalk/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=378 03:17:18 <peter1138> that isn't going to be visible without a login 03:17:34 <Supercheese> "Custom files downloaded from Simuscape, (http://www.simuscape.net) are for personal use only. Modifications or content extractions are not permitted as it may violate licenses granted by artists where fragments of their works may or may not be part of the custom file where this license apply. Uploading, hosting, (including content download services), or any other attempt to provide a custom... 03:17:36 <Supercheese> ...file downloaded from Simuscape to users elsewhere is not permitted." 03:18:04 <peter1138> bit different from CC 03:18:07 <peter1138> why are you even on there? 03:18:11 <Supercheese> 180° opposite, even 03:18:25 <Supercheese> Well, I like North American Roads 03:18:32 <Supercheese> and that's the only place to get them 03:18:38 <Supercheese> well, newest ones anyway 03:18:41 <peter1138> simuscape is a clique of artists who never released anything in case people used it 03:20:54 <Supercheese> Well, in the event new grfs or updates to existing grfs are released there, I'd like to be able to download them 03:54:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r24932 /trunk/src (lang/english.txt newgrf_gui.cpp) (2013-01-22 03:54:40 UTC) 03:54:47 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5158]: Prevent more NewGRFs being selected than is possible to load. 03:55:06 <peter1138> easy bugs :p 03:56:41 <Supercheese> Hmm, those poor sods using unmodified OTTD are still limited to 63-64 grfs, eh? 03:56:48 <peter1138> 58 03:56:52 <Supercheese> Ouch 03:56:59 <peter1138> more than you ever need 03:57:51 <Supercheese> Need â want 03:57:58 <Supercheese> Also you don't "need" any at all 03:58:02 <peter1138> sheesh 03:58:10 <peter1138> why would you even ... 03:58:17 <Supercheese> You've seen my grf list 03:58:30 <peter1138> you'll end up with a horrible mishmash of graphics styles 03:58:36 <peter1138> conflicting prices 03:58:42 <peter1138> it wouldn't make sense 03:58:46 <Supercheese> To you, perhaps 03:58:55 <Supercheese> but for those of us who want to, well, we do 03:59:02 <Supercheese> beauty of open-source stuff eh 03:59:10 <peter1138> sick 03:59:15 <Supercheese> :P 04:08:14 <Supercheese> Blarg, that took forever, I need to automate these palette conversions... 04:19:12 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 04:23:09 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@207.192.75.252] has joined #openttd 04:23:37 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@207.192.75.252] has left #openttd [] 04:25:53 *** roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.86.212] has joined #openttd 04:38:29 *** St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:04:31 <Supercheese> heehee, steam-powered airship 05:12:58 <Supercheese> I just ported this to OTTD: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15873 05:20:36 <Flygon> Man 05:20:57 <Flygon> Now we're seriously gonna get dem steampunk GRFs, from 1AD to 2000AD @_@ 05:21:03 <Flygon> Damn Greeks, making Bronze turbines 05:21:10 <Flygon> And away I go, to maintain horses! 05:21:15 <Supercheese> Civfanatics is a treasure trove of resources 05:21:54 <Supercheese> I dunno how some of those guys do it, "Here, I modeled a unit with 4 differnet 16-frame animations, in all 8 isometric/dimetric views. Here you go!" 05:22:08 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 05:35:32 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 05:40:09 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67D02.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5248.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:18:09 <Flygon> Supercheese: We require a Steampunk game overhaul :D 06:18:17 <Flygon> From 1AD to 2000AD 06:18:23 <Flygon> May need a daylength patch :p 06:18:44 <Flygon> Then again, alternate history... 06:27:50 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:42:13 <Supercheese> Oh definitely 06:54:51 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has joined #openttd 07:08:10 *** dots [~dots@ti0014a380-dhcp1597.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 07:26:29 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@205.185.119.44] has joined #openttd 07:36:44 <Supercheese> So many grf ideas, so little time 07:42:25 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:10:50 <planetmaker> moin 08:10:57 <Supercheese> Salve, amice 08:12:32 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 08:13:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:14:05 <andythenorth> bonjour 08:14:08 <andythenorth> Pikka lo 08:14:25 <Pikka> does it 08:14:47 <andythenorth> apparently 08:14:55 <Supercheese> if you want it to, it shall 08:15:06 <andythenorth> hrm 08:15:37 <andythenorth> Pikka been in the game? 08:16:53 <Pikka> not lately 08:17:37 <andythenorth> Flherne is winningest :P 08:18:16 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-000-003.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: that was: "if you build it, he will come" 08:18:37 <Supercheese> As... you...wiiiiiish... 08:20:24 <Pikka> ok bye 08:21:47 <andythenorth> bye 08:21:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 08:34:58 <peter1138> herp 08:35:28 <peter1138> Supercheese, what, you mean they actually produced work instead of spending all their time infighting over who drew crap? 08:35:52 <Supercheese> Alls I know is that they do, in fact, have grfs available for download 08:39:17 <Supercheese> Ugh, why did I ever start coding grfs with all my nml in the same file... now I have to separate and #include yet again 08:39:34 <Supercheese> s'like the 4th grf I've had to go back and change that 08:42:52 <peter1138> heh 08:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause> who produced what where? 08:44:03 <Supercheese> Simuscape 08:44:11 <Supercheese> et al. 08:44:17 <peter1138> Supercheese, what, no, i was talking about the civ stuff 08:44:26 <Supercheese> oh 08:44:36 <Supercheese> right 08:44:57 <Eddi|zuHause> civ? i'm lost 08:45:03 <Supercheese> http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=23 08:45:04 <peter1138> 05:12 < Supercheese> I just ported this to OTTD: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15873 08:45:08 <Supercheese> and that 08:46:06 <Supercheese> Some talented modelers have made dozens of units/vehicles for Civilization 3 08:47:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i never played that game, actually 08:53:32 <Supercheese> converting the civ3 palette to OTTD palette is a pain in the ass, I need to figure out a way to automate it 08:53:53 <Supercheese> civ3 has tricky magic-pink-transparency-blend in the palette 09:00:05 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/4318021617//in/photostream/ 09:02:31 <Supercheese> Wait, my random switches are re-randomizing when the vehicle is serviced :S 09:02:55 <Supercheese> I thought if I didn't specify any triggers it would never re-randomize 09:05:33 <V453000> :D 09:07:20 *** dfox [~dfox@89.177.105.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:07:43 <Supercheese> Blarg, how do I stop re-randomization 09:08:34 <peter1138> you have a trigger set somewhere 09:09:27 <V453000> Supercheese: that is strange, my trains dont do that 09:09:50 <V453000> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2065/ this for sure doesnt re-randomize upon servicing 09:09:59 <V453000> the "return" arent necessary 09:10:04 <V453000> ah yeah 09:10:07 <Supercheese> Hmmm 09:10:10 <V453000> you probably have a trigger there 09:10:33 <V453000> got something liek random_trigger: anywhere? 09:10:56 <Supercheese> Oh blarg yes, this is old code, forgot I had that 09:10:58 <Supercheese> thanks 09:11:28 <peter1138> lots of spritesets for different colours, or are you use CC recolours? 09:11:40 <Supercheese> two random livery variants atm 09:12:20 <V453000> I use sprites peter 09:12:38 <V453000> I often edit each colour individually so recolours would probably not quite cut it :) 09:19:57 <Supercheese> Fixed \o/ 09:22:02 <peter1138> \o/ 09:27:38 *** Celestar_ is now known as Celestar 09:27:39 <Celestar> gday 09:32:27 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:32:58 <peter1138> hello! 09:36:57 <Supercheese> Sleep time, 'night all 09:37:11 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.1/20130116073211]] 09:40:58 *** dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #openttd 09:54:06 <peter1138> hmm, kinda tired 09:54:24 <peter1138> probably should have had more than 3 hours sleep 10:02:14 <V453000> that helps indeed :) less coding mode zzz 10:13:53 <__ln__> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14415881/how-to-pair-socks-from-a-pile-efficiently 10:18:43 <peter1138> what's the order of vehicle views in a spriteset? 10:18:57 <peter1138> clockwise, isn't it? starting at...? 10:19:22 <V453000> starting at upward 10:19:55 <V453000> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3936 example 10:20:10 <peter1138> thanks 10:21:11 <V453000> yw 10:22:19 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2065/ <-- @ V453000 better keep the return. It's more consistent and might be changed to be needed in NML 0.4 :-) 10:23:00 <V453000> oh :D right I dont have them mostly anymore ... will just add them when needed :) 10:24:12 <planetmaker> it will at least trigger warnings for some time. It won't be a "now it doesn't work anymore" decision. So yes, you're safe whatever way you choose now 10:28:23 <planetmaker> generally: think of it the way, that you use return when you return the final value (or spriteset) and just the identifier name when chaining 10:28:57 <planetmaker> but if you ask me... I'm not consequent there either. So far at least :-) 10:47:29 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 10:56:15 <V453000> :P 11:03:53 <peter1138> urgh 11:04:06 <peter1138> getting sprite sizes without using the sprite cache is sloooooow 11:07:38 <peter1138> getting sprite sizes with using the sprite cache is sloooooow 11:07:48 <peter1138> fills the cache somewhat 11:11:18 <V453000> :D 11:12:25 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:15:14 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 11:19:40 *** dots [~dots@ti0014a380-dhcp1597.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:37:33 <peter1138> Evaluated 113218 sprites 11:37:37 <peter1138> that's... a lot 11:40:29 <peter1138> Evaluated 6813390 sprites 11:40:32 <peter1138> that's even more :S 12:00:27 <peter1138> sprite glitches everywhere! 12:13:28 <peter1138> Lookups 0 12:13:28 <peter1138> Lookups 65 12:13:28 <peter1138> Lookups 62 12:13:28 <peter1138> Lookups 0 12:13:28 <peter1138> Lookups 0 12:13:33 <peter1138> ^patched version 12:13:37 <peter1138> Lookups 77998 12:13:37 <peter1138> Lookups 79134 12:13:37 <peter1138> Lookups 79794 12:13:37 <peter1138> Lookups 79920 12:13:39 <peter1138> ^trunk 12:13:59 <peter1138> [A[A[A[ALookups 14179 12:13:59 <peter1138> Lookups 14958 12:13:59 <peter1138> Lookups 16650 12:13:59 <peter1138> Lookups 16604 12:14:05 <peter1138> ^patched version zoomed out 12:14:25 <peter1138> (zoom level doesn't affect trunk) 12:17:18 <peter1138> FF is a bit faster 12:22:07 <NGC3982> What on earth is going on here. 12:22:20 <peter1138> spam :D 12:22:38 <NGC3982> :) 12:22:55 <NGC3982> I just realized i forgot to group 2000 vehicles. 12:23:30 <peter1138> fun :0 12:23:31 <NGC3982> At the moment, i would enjoy a new version with an added "Put all ungrouped vehicles in.." *drag to group*. 12:27:16 <peter1138> if (_ctrl_pressed) move all vehicles in list to group 12:27:27 <peter1138> maybe not 12:27:38 <peter1138> hmm, slightly more viewport draws 12:27:38 <Eddi|zuHause> just selecting multiple vehicles might help 12:28:35 <peter1138> Lookups 5311, draws 1102 12:28:35 <peter1138> Lookups 5261, draws 1141 12:28:35 <peter1138> Lookups 5202, draws 1073 12:28:35 <peter1138> Lookups 5117, draws 1030 12:28:37 <peter1138> Lookups 4777, draws 959 12:28:45 <peter1138> Lookups 84368, draws 968 12:28:45 <peter1138> Lookups 82523, draws 871 12:28:45 <peter1138> Lookups 82809, draws 896 12:28:45 <peter1138> Lookups 82174, draws 803 12:28:45 <peter1138> Lookups 81810, draws 773 12:28:49 <peter1138> i wonder which is faster :p 12:29:15 <peter1138> lookups == evaluating newgrf act3/2/1 chains 12:30:02 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Yes, indeed. 12:30:33 <NGC3982> Seriosly, the poop pot is boiling in Sweden today 12:31:05 <Eddi|zuHause> *must*stop*image*in*head* 12:31:35 <NGC3982> We have for many years used a very unfair system for paying up for social service 12:32:17 <NGC3982> Swedes are forced to pay (a fair amount of) money, if they own a television. Even if they never use it to watch public service channels (wich the money is for). 12:32:36 <NGC3982> It's unfair and shit, and i have been seriosly working to make it go away. 12:32:42 <peter1138> same here 12:32:53 <NGC3982> Today, they announced that everyone with a computer can watch svtplay.se, and therefor - should play the fee. 12:33:02 <peter1138> haha 12:33:18 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: welcome to germany 10 years ago :p 12:33:28 <planetmaker> NGC3982: welcome. We know that here as well... 12:33:46 <NGC3982> Hey, let's lie about not owning a computer so that i don't have to buy a service i do not want to use. 12:33:49 <NGC3982> Fuck off. 12:33:51 <planetmaker> and tbh... *if* you want everyone to finance it, it's the logical consequence 12:33:53 <NGC3982> Regards, Sweden. 12:34:03 <NGC3982> Sorry for the foul language. :( 12:34:05 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: we have meanwhile passed this stage, and just charge every house, irrespective of whether they own a TV, computer, radio or nothing 12:34:11 <planetmaker> unless you want to finance it via taxes. Which would be fairer 12:34:34 <NGC3982> Though, the thing is: I support paying for public service. I like public service! But i will -never- be turned up the ass like that. 12:34:44 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: And that's at least fair. 12:34:45 <planetmaker> a flat tax irrespective of household income is... injust 12:34:46 <peter1138> switzerland, norway, denmark and austria all have high rates than sweden :p 12:34:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it's deliberately not financed via taxes, as that could mean (even more) unfair influence on the content by the government 12:35:15 <peter1138> *higher 12:35:21 <planetmaker> I can't imagine how that would make it worse, Eddi|zuHause 12:35:28 <NGC3982> planetmaker: having everyone paying the same fee is at least a taxation. The current law system is unfair and stupid. 12:35:35 <NGC3982> Though 12:35:49 <Pinkbeast> We have a TV license (and I have a vast collection of nastygrams) but as long as the government ultimately sets the licence fee I don't see that they have any less influence. 12:35:53 <planetmaker> NGC3982: it's up to you to suggest something fairer and to lobby for that suggestion 12:35:53 <NGC3982> SVTplay could solve this by simply using a paypal service or something 12:35:59 <NGC3982> But no, let's make it a law instead. 12:36:12 <Pinkbeast> I'd rather it was funded out of general taxation, and right now I don't pay a penny. 12:36:27 <planetmaker> not sure there is a fairer system than a fee or tax. If you want publicly funded TV and not only TV which follows the intrest of a oligopol 12:37:00 <NGC3982> planetmaker: True. That's why i support taxation. It might be much money for the Swedish people, but it is at least a real law. 12:37:27 <NGC3982> If the currect system was applicated to a commercial instance, it would be illegal and frowned upon. 12:37:53 <NGC3982> It's like i would charge you people money because you never contacted me and said that you didnt want to buy my shit you have never heard of. 12:37:58 <Pinkbeast> That is true of everything the government collects funding for, so I'm not sure you can single out the TV license. 12:38:13 <planetmaker> NGC3982: yes. So it's currently effectively a flat tax 12:38:31 <planetmaker> your taxes are also used to support *whatever* even though you don#t use it. why should it be different with TV? 12:38:48 <Pinkbeast> A flat tax that (if it's anything like the UK) is woefully inefficiently collected by virtue of being outside the usual tax collection regime. 12:38:49 <planetmaker> call it tax or fee or whatever. No big difference really 12:39:05 <planetmaker> that's of course another issue, Pinkbeast :-) 12:39:40 <planetmaker> it's the administrative overhead which would need and could go by using simple tax funding 12:40:04 <Pinkbeast> Also there are some fascinating edge cases. I can watch stuff on the BBC iplayer later and I don't need a TV Licence. :-) 12:40:29 <planetmaker> that's circumvented now in germany: every household pays a flat fee. And that's it. 12:40:44 <planetmaker> that also then includes usage of the internet pages of public tv. 12:40:55 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: would you rather have a tax based on you having to register every single TV set and the tax calculated on screen diagonal? 12:41:02 <planetmaker> (from my POV it kinda makes sense. It's the only way I've been using the services for years) 12:41:08 <NGC3982> planetmaker: Yes. 12:41:25 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: no. I'd just use a tiny part of the income tax to fund TV. No special tax needed 12:41:28 <planetmaker> or VAT. or whatever 12:41:47 <NGC3982> My point with all this is: A government can't make up stuff from nothing, just so you have to pay them shit. This is not Italy, damnit. 12:41:58 <planetmaker> it's not like we have a special "usage of hospitatal tax" either 12:42:00 <Pinkbeast> That is precisely how all taxes work so errr 12:42:03 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how that makes any more sense than charging for every household 12:42:27 <NGC3982> And, if you want to fund public service, make the people pay for it. That's fine, if you feel the importance of it. But don't make up magic rules that doesn't apply logically to the people using television. 12:42:34 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: we have a mandatory membership of a health insurance, though 12:42:34 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: the difference is everybody paying exactly the same amount vs. everybody paying a percentage amount of their income 12:42:39 <planetmaker> the latter is fairer 12:43:04 <planetmaker> 30⬠may be a lot for some, and nothing for others 12:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and we DID have a "visit a doctor" fee, until a few months ago 12:43:18 <planetmaker> I know :-) 12:43:45 <planetmaker> but only once every 3 month. All subsequent in that quarter were free. Kinda 12:46:18 <NGC3982> And, speaking of this. The system they are using to "detect" people with TV is a "#/&"#? mess. 12:46:20 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: still that one made no sense whatsoever 12:46:30 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/fs4934.diff 12:46:32 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/fs4934time.diff 12:46:38 <NGC3982> They can charge you (without you having anything to object) if they see a television trough your window. 12:46:41 <NGC3982> And they do 12:46:45 <NGC3982> The did it to me 12:46:50 <peter1138> ^ hacky experimental patch 12:46:55 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: you ring during a football game, and if it sounds "GOAL" out of the living room, they have a TV? 12:46:56 <NGC3982> I used legal process to get myself out of it. 12:47:01 <peter1138> (along with patch to compare number of calls) 12:47:02 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: True. 12:47:09 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: ..According to them. 12:47:21 <NGC3982> They don't have to knock and tell you either, they simply send you an invoice. 12:47:24 <NGC3982> And a legal warning 12:47:40 <NGC3982> Remind you; The people that work with it does -not- have govermental juristiction. 12:47:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is the same over here 12:48:15 <NGC3982> I went to the swedish TingsrÀtt back in 2009 to get it sorted out 12:48:17 <Pinkbeast> Hm, this is very like the mess in the UK, except that merely seeing a TV through the window does not suffice. 12:48:21 <NGC3982> And of course, it got sorted out. 12:48:28 <Pinkbeast> The detector vans here are almost certainly completely bogus. 12:48:30 <NGC3982> Since people do not go to court with it, they can continue. 12:48:43 <NGC3982> It's Berlusconi poop. That's what it is, dag nabbit. 12:48:54 <NGC3982> planetmaker: "Detector vans"? 12:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> wrong hilight :) 12:49:20 <Pinkbeast> Just as well since there _is_ a TV visible through my window (and no, I'm not breaking the rules). 12:49:24 <__ln__> Strangely enough, for the past 22 days, we've had our "tv licence" implemented as an additional tax. Which is 0⬠if you earn <7000â¬/year, and scales to max ~140⬠for >=20000â¬/year. 12:50:12 <planetmaker> it levels off quickly, __ln__ 12:50:15 <__ln__> And that's per person (adult person, i think). 12:50:35 <Eddi|zuHause> 20kâ¬/year is not that much 12:50:54 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:51:12 <Pinkbeast> I assume this is the most basic patch to a flat tax to make it not screw the poor too badly. 12:51:13 <__ln__> yeah, it isn't. the upper limit is quite low. 12:51:15 <planetmaker> yes, it's not... If I'd leave university, I'd ask for more... 12:51:23 <peter1138> main issue with the UK system is they don't believe that anyone can not have a tv 12:52:13 <NGC3982> peter1138: That goes for us too. Hence, a guy can stand in your window and look at your personal DVD of Game of Thrones and report you as a TV (that is, D/A Reciever) owner, charging you the fee. 12:52:18 <peter1138> you can watch stuff on bbc iplayer, as long as it's not "live" 12:52:40 <peter1138> and you actually get guys standing in your window? 12:52:46 <planetmaker> meanwhile you can watch most stuff in public TV also as live stream 12:53:00 <Pinkbeast> NGC: Except that here they will lose (if you turn up to mag's court and say "no, watching a DVD") 12:53:00 <planetmaker> in Germany at least 12:53:15 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: Yes, that is true. How many Swedes will do that? 12:53:37 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: They deliberatly use a unlawful (and unethic) system to make people pay for stuff they might not even use. 12:53:47 <NGC3982> And that was my case when i took this to court. 12:53:51 <NGC3982> And won. 12:53:56 <Pinkbeast> I would - it's going to cost them vast sums of money for an afternoon's amusement for me. 12:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> with the further diversification in receiver devices (cellphones, tablets, ...) it made no real sense anymore to distinguish between TVs and computers 12:54:09 <Pinkbeast> Errr again you seem to be objecting in general to how taxation works. 12:54:27 <Pinkbeast> I pay for lots of stuff I don't use, when it comes to tax. 12:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so i do think charging every household irrespective of device is the better option 12:54:32 <NGC3982> Me? 12:55:04 <Pinkbeast> Yes. 12:55:12 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: charging the same amount from every household is unfair. 12:55:16 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: It's not general taxation. That's why im mad? 12:55:34 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: whatever system you choose. _SOMEONE_ will always think it's unfair 12:55:41 <Pinkbeast> Do you object in general to hypothecated taxes? 12:55:55 <planetmaker> what's an "hypothecated tax"? 12:56:04 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: Absolutely not. I support the general flat taxation for public service in Sweden. 12:56:20 <Pinkbeast> One collected for a specific purpose (like the UK TV licence fee) 12:56:33 <planetmaker> ah, I see 12:57:12 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: but the same amount for all is too unfair. 12:57:14 <Pinkbeast> NGC: My point is that your objection is incoherent. You don't in general mind "paying for stuff you don't use", in taxation; and you say you don't object to hypothecated taxes. 12:57:36 <Pinkbeast> But you are complaining about what is essentially a hypothecated tax on the grounds that it's paying for stuff you don't use. 12:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i'm not sure what the new version is, but in the old version you were free if you had _really_ low income, like 250â¬/month 12:58:09 <planetmaker> you still can get exemption, Eddi|zuHause 12:59:38 *** hanshoi [hanshoi@kapsi.fi] has left #openttd [] 12:59:38 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: not here. if you were living alone and your income was 0â¬/month, you'd still pay the same amount as a household of two people both earning 50kâ¬/year. 13:00:07 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: Then you have missed my meaning of all this. I have no objection to paying for public service, if it's on fair grounds for everybody. For instance, having everyone to share the bill (for instance, a flat tax). The current system ignores if you can/cannot use public service. If you have a monitor that "looks big", it's suddenly charge-able. When i say "that people don't even use", i'm not talking about people watching TV and don't switch over to t 13:00:36 <Pinkbeast> "The current system ignores if you can/cannot use public service." 13:00:43 <NGC3982> Yes, that is true. 13:00:54 <Pinkbeast> Ah. So I should be exempt from the proportion of tax that pays for child benefit, having been sterilised? 13:01:12 <planetmaker> :-) 13:01:19 <Pinkbeast> What you seem to be saying is that you do in fact object to hypothecated taxes. 13:01:23 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: Again, you do not understand. I support making everyone pay for public service, as is written a few lines up. 13:01:39 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: I do -not- support making some of the people pay, on grounds that does not exist. 13:01:42 <planetmaker> you should then pay twice, Pinkbeast. As you don't provide people who'll pay your retirement money 13:01:49 <Pinkbeast> But you are contradicting yourself constantly. 13:02:14 <NGC3982> Is this a language thing or what? It's this easy: The current law makes some people pay, regardless of them using TV or not. 13:02:19 <Pinkbeast> A tax that everyone pays "ignores if you can/cannot use public service" - so why is that bad about the current system? 13:02:33 <Pinkbeast> Yes. A tax that everyone pays would make some people pay, regardless etc etc 13:02:38 <planetmaker> NGC3982, yes. And a tax makes *everyone* pay. Even when they don't use whatever the tax is used for 13:02:46 <planetmaker> and you said you're not against a flat-tax system... 13:02:46 <NGC3982> Exactly. 13:02:56 <NGC3982> Yes, that is true - again. 13:03:06 <Pinkbeast> So your objections to the current system would also be objections to "everyone pays". 13:03:12 <planetmaker> but... it is a flat tax system, if everyone pays for TV. Even if they don't have or use it 13:04:51 <NGC3982> planetmaker: Indeed. I repeat: The current system makes some (read: some) people pay for everyones usage of public service. Of these people, many don't even own a television. These people will therefor by law pay for everyone elses television use (and that is why the fee is so high). Thus: The law is faulty and that is why i do not like it. 13:05:05 <NGC3982> If -everyone- (or no-one) paid for it, that would be a more fair system. 13:05:35 <Pinkbeast> If everyone paid for it, many would still not own a television. These people would therefore by law pay for everyone else's television use. Thus: ... ? 13:05:50 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: i'm totally lost on what you're actually against now 13:05:58 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: Yes, that is true. Though, that would be a real law, based on real taxation rules. 13:06:07 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-000-003.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:06:10 <planetmaker> so am I, Eddi|zuHause. I totally don't get your argument, sorry, NGC3982 13:06:12 <NGC3982> The current system is not, and as i said, conjugated by people that is not a part of our coverment. 13:06:13 <Pinkbeast> So in fact you clearly do not object on the stated grounds. 13:06:21 <Pinkbeast> It manifestly is a real law. 13:06:24 <NGC3982> Do i have to paint this? 13:06:38 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-178-142-077-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 13:06:45 <Pinkbeast> But furthermore you're now getting into an entirely fresh objection. This is what I mean by your argument being incoherent. 13:07:13 <Pinkbeast> Indeed, since the overwhelming majority of people do own a TV, funding it out of general taxation would increase the net sums paid by people who don't. 13:08:12 <planetmaker> yes... but would possibly open the option to just remove the bloated fund-gathering agency which is in use now 13:08:20 <planetmaker> thus might even be a net gain ;-) 13:08:31 <NGC3982> The net gain of a flat tax for everyone is: 13:08:51 <Pinkbeast> planet: Yes, and "get rid of Capita" would be marvellous here, but that's a different argument. 13:08:55 <NGC3982> 1. We can close down the fake agency that works with the bloated non-police-but-police-action work right now. 13:08:59 <NGC3982> and: 13:09:12 <NGC3982> 2: Everyone pay for public service. Either everyone, or no-one. 13:09:16 <NGC3982> or: 13:09:45 <NGC3982> 3: Make the system pay-per-view. Since the agency announced that SVTplay will be internet only in a few years, that is not that hard to handle. 13:10:01 <Pinkbeast> Marvellous. I agree. But if those are your objectives, don't start by saying "It makes people pay who don't use the service", because that would still be true if you did 1: and 2:! 13:10:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <NGC3982> 1. We can close down the fake agency that works with the bloated non-police-but-police-action work right now. <-- except that germany didn't manage to do this when they introduced the flat fee 13:11:11 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: Yes, i have to excuse the usage of words there. My point was that a law that makes everyone pay for public service, is a better solution than "some" paying, even if they do not use it. 13:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> now they're not trying to find out anymore who owns a TV, but which people form an actual combined houseold 13:11:15 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: :( 13:11:39 <Pinkbeast> Well, I agree with that, yes. 13:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> so they're like going to student homes and ask "do you have sex with each other" (my imagination) 13:12:15 <NGC3982> As with the current system (to sum this circus of arguments all up), i have to -lie- and say that i -dont own a computer-, simply because i never visit SVTplay.se. 13:12:24 <NGC3982> And that falls on its own, really. 13:12:36 <NGC3982> I can make them a pay-per-view service for free, if they want to 13:12:36 <Pinkbeast> Eddi: On the other hand that is something that has to be done for all sorts of reasons (eg distinguishing lodger/cohabitee)... 13:12:41 <NGC3982> And this would be solved. 13:12:41 <NGC3982> .. 13:12:55 <Pinkbeast> No, you don't have to lie. Either the law requires you to pay if you have a computer or it doesn't. 13:13:54 <Pinkbeast> For instance I know that the wording here is "a device installed or used for the purpose of receiving television programmes as they are broadcast", or something very like that, and know that (as you might expect) case law says that iplayer counts if it is not timeshifted. 13:15:10 <Pinkbeast> So if (as I do not) I watch TV but never the BBC, I'm not required to lie. I'm required to pay. 13:15:56 <NGC3982> Sure. I do not however, think that having a computer implies having easy access to SVTplay.se 13:16:22 <NGC3982> If the solution easily can be solved with simply having a damn username. 13:18:58 <NGC3982> It's like putting out a fire with a comet 13:19:23 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-49-3.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 13:19:59 <Pinkbeast> If the situation is like that in the UK, not at all; you pay for the use of a device that could potentially be used to... 13:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: like i said, we have had that same discussion in germany several years ago 13:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: except that computers were not charged the TV fee, but the radio fee 13:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> which was much lower 13:21:28 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: Indeed. So, you can code, right? Make a username+password function with Paypal support, and i'll call the government. 13:21:40 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Ah, you have separated fee's? 13:21:49 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: not anymore 13:21:58 <Pinkbeast> NGC: My point is that that would make no difference at all because obviously with a suitable device it would be trivial to register a username. 13:23:04 <NGC3982> Sure it would. People that don't pay would not be able to take part of it. 13:23:11 <NGC3982> As with Netflix, or Spotify. 13:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: now they introduced the per-household fee irrespective of device 13:23:21 <NGC3982> (I know, it's not a good idea since nobody would use it). 13:23:28 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: I see. 13:23:37 <Pinkbeast> But now you're avocating a change to pay-per-view, which is completely separate from the bogus assertion that presently you are required to lie. 13:23:37 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: now the companies complain that have many shops 13:23:59 <Pinkbeast> As far as I can see presently you are lying to avoid the fact that in fact you are required to pay. 13:24:04 <Eddi|zuHause> because they might have a major increase in fees 13:24:32 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: Yes, of course. 13:24:41 <NGC3982> I'm required to pay, since i own a computer. 13:24:43 <Pinkbeast> So you are not required to lie at all. 13:25:01 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:25:02 <Pinkbeast> In fact, you're objecting to the fact that it is becoming much more like an "everybody pays" tax! 13:25:28 <michi_cc> And of course you also get the regular public TV station haters, but then somebody who thinks Mitten im Leben or X-Diaries is quality TV has a completely different problem anyway. 13:25:46 <NGC3982> So, having a system (like Netflix or Spotify) that makes users pay, and the users actually use the service - is not a good thing? 13:26:31 <Pinkbeast> NGC: Again, one objection at a time. We're dealing now with "required to lie", and the fact that you think a flat tax is good but a de facto flat tax is bad. 13:26:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and then there's the local newspapers that don't sell anything anymore and want in on the "public money" themselves 13:27:11 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: As i have been trying to point out: Having a system where everyone pays, or where the people actually using it pays is a good system. A bad system is where some people that might or might not use the system have to pay for everyone else. What is wrong with that? 13:27:21 <michi_cc> NGC3982: Not at all, if one of the goals is to provide political education, proper news or cultural programs, i.e. everything that isn't entertainment. 13:28:16 <Pinkbeast> It doesn't make sense in terms of objecting to moving from a system where some people to approaching one where effectively everyone pays because the set of qualifying devices is so large that everyone owns one. 13:28:25 <NGC3982> michi_cc: Yes, that is why i think that we should either use the "everybody pays", or the "the ones that use it pays". Nothing else, right? 13:29:21 <peter1138> no comments on my fs4934 patch then :p 13:29:32 <NGC3982> peter1138: Haha. Sorry for the OT. 13:30:00 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: So, having a system where "everybody pays" or "the users that use it pays" is not better then guessing who's using it? :D 13:30:23 <michi_cc> NGC3982: For those goals, everybody pays is the better way. There are already enough people that think education and culture are optional and they shouldn't be rewarded. 13:30:36 <NGC3982> michi_cc: Sure, let's make that happend then. 13:30:40 <Pinkbeast> NGC: again, you're skipping off the point. You're objecting to a change from a system where some pay to another system where some pay. 13:30:54 <michi_cc> NGC3982: It has happened in Germany. 13:30:59 <Pinkbeast> That we agree that "everybody pays" would be better is irrelevant to the relative merits of those systems. 13:31:00 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: Yes, that is true. But in the proposed system the RIGHT people pay. 13:31:38 <Pinkbeast> So don't bring it up when complaining about computers becoming qualifying devices, because it's irrelevant (except inasmuch as, I observe, you are de facto moving to "everybody pays"). 13:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> no comments on my fs4934 patch then :p <- can you make up your mind whether game-related or not-game-related discussions are bad now? :p 13:33:55 <michi_cc> peter1138: fs4934 interacts with some other stuff I consider sub-optimal: that the sprite cache is always storing all zoom levels of each sprite. An idea might be to cache/store sprite meta data separately and then only store the used sprite sizes in the sprite cache. 13:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: "the RIGHT people" are always "the others"... 13:34:49 <peter1138> not sure that's particularly relevant to the problem though 13:35:08 <peter1138> hmm, kinda is 13:35:24 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: The right people might in this case be the people that logon to SVTplay and pay for a service. Though, as michi_cc said, it might not be a good thing (since most people would avoid it). 13:36:00 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: As said, how they solve it is not my problem, i just want to abolish a unethical system that punishes random citizens with unrelated fee's. 13:36:05 <michi_cc> peter1138: It's not related to the problem at all :), but related to how to implement a solution. 13:36:12 <NGC3982> and "i" is at the moment a lot of Swedes. 13:36:49 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 13:37:21 <NGC3982> People are so pissed right now. The Swedish AMS (where you announce for employees) have stopped announcing for "pejlare" (the people that look for televisions trough windows and poop). 13:37:55 <NGC3982> But yes, i feel that i have used this channel a bit too much for OT today. 13:37:56 <NGC3982> Sorry. 13:39:55 <peter1138> never mind 13:40:02 <peter1138> i updated the FS entry instead :p 13:40:56 <NGC3982> :D 13:48:33 <NGC3982> I will have to excuse myself. The last then minutes, the agency put up a clarification note on the website, stating that you do not have to pay the fee, as long as you dont have an explicit TV-tuner in your computer. 13:48:50 <NGC3982> The announcement this morning was a bit hasty, then. 13:48:54 <NGC3982> And so was my anger. 13:49:03 <peter1138> hah 13:51:39 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Re: Grouping vehicles. Another thing that would be nice to use is "dragging across multiple windows". For instance, from a station view to a group view: http://i.imgur.com/hGFl5Ry.png 13:56:36 <peter1138> get coding 13:57:19 <NGC3982> Hehe 13:57:32 <NGC3982> I would just ruin it. 13:57:42 <peter1138> don't think the window system supports drag&drop between windows currently 13:57:56 <NGC3982> Stuff like that are made with patches, right? 13:58:04 <NGC3982> It's not like i can NewGRF it, i guess. 13:58:13 <peter1138> yeah source code patches 13:58:16 <NGC3982> I see. 13:59:40 <peter1138> must suck to have such a small screen :-p 14:00:29 <NGC3982> Hehe, indeed. 14:00:49 <NGC3982> It's a laptop 14:00:58 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/hiergroup.diff 14:02:15 <NGC3982> Hm, alright. 14:02:20 <NGC3982> How is a diff file implemented? 14:02:32 <NGC3982> Do you compile it? Or is it simply loaded? 14:03:14 <peter1138> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=21678 14:03:50 <NGC3982> Ah, thank you. 14:04:02 <NGC3982> I guess it's time i create myself a forum username. 14:04:20 <peter1138> should be able to read that? 14:05:32 <NGC3982> Yes, i was refering to being a part of the forum 14:05:32 <peter1138> hmm, i didn't bump the savegame version 14:05:42 <peter1138> shows i haven't tested loading groups :p 14:06:40 <NGC3982> :D 14:06:41 <peter1138> (yup, it works) 14:31:07 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r24933 trunk/src/group_cmd.cpp (2013-01-22 14:31:01 UTC) 14:31:08 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#3473]: Make group names unique per company and vehicle type. 14:40:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DA5D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:01:33 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> an actual commit! :o 15:17:56 <peter1138> never 15:18:33 <peter1138> and 24932! 15:23:15 *** FlyingFoXy [~quassel@sanktwendel.weh.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:25:35 *** FlyingFoX [~quassel@sanktwendel.weh.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #openttd 15:30:08 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, FS#5043? 15:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> err... have no time to re-test that 15:31:11 <peter1138> nearly a year! 15:33:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that was totally out of my radar... 15:43:33 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@mobile-198-228-233-198.mycingular.net] has joined #openttd 15:48:24 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:50:37 <Celestar> hmm... 15:50:43 <Celestar> 56k context switches per second .. 15:50:58 <Celestar> I need more but less beefy CPUs :P 15:52:35 <Sacro> or a modem 15:52:54 <Celestar> lol 15:53:42 <Rubidium> Celestar: CUDA? 15:55:05 <Rubidium> 1024 cores on one video card ;) 15:55:08 <peter1138> oh god, the large maps patch goes to 1M these days :S 15:55:24 <Rubidium> it did for like ever 15:55:38 <peter1138> yeah but i never looked at it :p 15:56:47 <peter1138> hmm, 600MB just for the map 15:57:07 <Rubidium> and maybe it doesn't even save ;) 15:58:15 <FLHerne> Rubidium: The saner sizes seem to work fine though :-) 15:58:27 <peter1138> yeah, 256x256 15:58:55 * FLHerne has been using that patch for a few years with no problems other than lag :P 15:59:21 <Rubidium> and... have you filled the 2kx2k map already? 15:59:47 <Rubidium> like e.g. jgr did for 256x256 and I did for 128x128? 16:00:05 <FLHerne> Rubidium: Not on my own, but certainly in MP with friends it fills quite fast 16:01:14 <FLHerne> Normally I use 512x1024 on my own, and I can normally fill that between first steam trains and present day (using daylength though) 16:06:56 <peter1138> you should play ttd 16:07:05 <peter1138> 80 trains, 80 rvs, 50 ships and 40 planes 16:08:18 <FLHerne> That sounds very tedious. No CDist or autorefit or rivers or [insert older and more basic features] either... 16:08:48 <Rubidium> I'd reckon that to be 'autorail' 16:09:41 <Rubidium> or specifically, the dragging of the vertical and horizontal rail (from screen point of view) 16:10:13 <peter1138> autoslope 16:10:23 <peter1138> irregular stations 16:10:33 <peter1138> presignals 16:10:34 <Rubidium> build on slopes 16:10:43 <peter1138> yeah that's the one i meat 16:10:45 <peter1138> *meant 16:10:51 <peter1138> mammoth trains! 16:11:08 <peter1138> station's the wrong size? tough, you gotta rebuild it 16:11:21 <peter1138> multiple rv stops 16:11:26 <peter1138> hmm 16:11:35 <peter1138> remember when people wanted us to implement sign cheat? heh 16:12:09 <peter1138> still, it was faster :p 16:12:22 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@mobile-198-228-233-198.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: left.] 16:12:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:15:58 <FLHerne> That's a lot of features :D 16:18:03 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@198.228.233.198] has joined #openttd 16:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: TTO came pretty much to a halt when i had 80 trains 16:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i only had that same effect with openttd when i started a map with ECS :p 16:25:08 * andythenorth needs a FIRS coder 16:25:10 <andythenorth> I'm hiring 16:25:22 <andythenorth> I offer 50% equity 16:25:32 <andythenorth> but I just have the ideas, you do the work 16:27:46 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@198.228.233.198] has quit [Quit: left.] 16:30:59 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:44:52 <NGC3982> Report: Half of Star Trek Voyager is now done. 16:44:57 <NGC3982> Impressions: What __ln__ said. 16:45:16 <NGC3982> It's a great series, but it can absolutely not match up to DS9. 16:51:55 <andythenorth> that moment when you spend more time figuring out how to use your framework than it would take to edit the code manually 16:53:29 <andythenorth> oh look 16:53:37 <andythenorth> 1,000,317 of grfs wot I helped make 16:53:43 <andythenorth> downloads via bananas 16:53:45 <andythenorth> that is 16:53:51 <NGC3982> Time spent calculating and visualising scenarios can never be ill spent. 16:54:07 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Impressive :P 16:54:16 <andythenorth> well getting 1m downloads is not going to happen again in my lifer 16:54:18 <andythenorth> -r 16:54:40 <NGC3982> Are you sure? 16:54:49 <FLHerne> I made one very simple one, which has never been downloaded by anyone :P 16:54:53 <NGC3982> How much time did 1m take? :) 16:55:02 <Rubidium> @calc 1000317/66790137*100 16:55:02 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 1.49770167413 16:55:31 <Rubidium> that's only 1.5% of all bananas downloads? 16:56:05 <andythenorth> :P 16:56:20 <andythenorth> I've had a very fractional impact :P 16:56:24 <andythenorth> might as well stop eh? 16:56:29 <Pinkbeast> Even so that's got to put you up with Pikka in the top few 16:56:47 <FLHerne> Can Bananas show downloads/time? 16:56:51 <andythenorth> zeph wins 16:56:58 <andythenorth> and that stupid ships grf 16:57:22 <NGC3982> What is the most popular one? FIRS? 16:57:35 <andythenorth> nah 16:57:39 <andythenorth> people hate FIRS 16:57:55 <Pinkbeast> HEQS? HEQS is kind of a no-brainer without AIs. 16:57:59 <andythenorth> FISH is way more popular than the others 16:58:10 <NGC3982> HEQS is nice. 16:58:16 <andythenorth> FISH nearly twice as popular as HEQS 16:58:22 <NGC3982> Oh 16:59:36 <FLHerne> andythenorth: FISH is the only good ship grf on Bananas :-) 17:00:46 <Rubidium> regarding bananas downloads, I'd rather think Zuu and Yexo (AI + libraries) 17:01:27 <NGC3982> I see Yexo everywhere. 17:01:38 <andythenorth> yexo did CHIPS 17:01:42 <andythenorth> and a lot of FIRS 17:01:53 <peter1138> # hello hello hello hello hello 17:02:05 <andythenorth> is it me you're looking for? 17:02:27 <andythenorth> out the lights out, it's less dangerous 17:03:34 <Rubidium> based on (uploading) author Zuu is best; 6.3M, then Yexo 4.2M, Pikka 3.6M, Moriarty 3.6M, George: 2.7M, openttdcoop: 2.6M, planetmaker 2.1M. Zephyris is 12th with only 1.3M 17:05:03 <andythenorth> hoo 17:05:09 <NGC3982> Is it just me, or is OpenTTD more popular now than ever? 17:05:20 <andythenorth> Rubidium has the stats :P 17:05:51 <Rubidium> though it doesn't 'handle' the case where opengfx is contributed to by many people 17:06:13 <Rubidium> and andy doesn't seem to upload using his own account 17:06:42 <andythenorth> coop 17:08:38 <Rubidium> only half a million opengfx (from bananas) 17:09:06 * Rubidium comes to 700k with involvement in base sets 17:10:07 <Rubidium> Zuu is 6.2M in AI/GS and Yexo 4.2M 17:10:21 <andythenorth> interesting 17:10:31 <andythenorth> much bigger numbers than newgrf 17:10:52 <Rubidium> yeah, but downloading one AI gets you 10 or so libraries 17:10:58 <Rubidium> which are all counted ;) 17:11:38 <Rubidium> without libraries it's 1.4M for Zuu and 0.7M for Yexo 17:12:35 <Rubidium> and... without further... the top 30: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2066/ 17:12:40 <Rubidium> for NewGRFs 17:14:29 <Terkhen> hello 17:14:34 <Rubidium> oh andy... you got 87698 downloads ;) 17:17:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4e28.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:22:48 <peter1138> we have md5sumToString 17:22:54 <peter1138> do we have anything to do the opposite? 17:23:44 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:26:19 <frosch123> last time i needed that i wrote a hackish patch 17:26:57 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:30:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it can't be that hard to make a hex-to-int function 17:33:53 <__ln__> NGC3982: Have they introduced Seven of Nine Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-One yet? 17:43:58 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:44:02 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:46:01 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-178-142-077-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:55:15 <MNIM> wait, what, a new sim city? 17:55:20 * MNIM googles 17:57:17 <peter1138> pfft, 3d graphics 17:57:18 <Rubidium> peter1138: I think there might be such a function in the masterserver and/or contentserver 17:59:22 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08ee77.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:59:25 <Rubidium> hmm, not a function, just a few lines of code mysql.cpp:366-382 18:00:16 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:04:22 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 18:09:26 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:14:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:18:21 <Kjetil> He said the M-word! 18:18:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, Masterserver 18:18:52 <Eddi|zuHause> which is a funny oxymoron :) 18:19:13 <Kjetil> quite 18:19:17 <peter1138> what 18:29:18 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:29:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B850.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:29:34 <ZxBiohazardZx> question on r24932 what is the max_limit? 18:32:05 <peter1138> 58 18:32:25 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka 64-6 18:32:34 <peter1138> yes 18:32:40 <ZxBiohazardZx> why only 64? is that max value of the bits we have for it? 18:33:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka 256 18:33:23 <peter1138> no 18:33:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka why not 256* 18:33:37 <peter1138> server protocol limit 18:33:40 <peter1138> why 256? 18:33:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> 8 bits? 18:33:55 <ZxBiohazardZx> why only use 6 bits for it? 18:33:57 <peter1138> if you're using that many newgrfs, you're doing it wrong :S 18:34:06 <ZxBiohazardZx> fair enough 18:34:27 <peter1138> nothing to do with bits, it's a server protocol limitation 18:34:40 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:34:53 <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: it's not about 6 bits, it's about (GRFID+MD5SUM)*56 is the largest to fit into one UDP package 18:35:02 <ZxBiohazardZx> ah ok 18:35:34 <ZxBiohazardZx> i had another question but i forgot it :) 18:35:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> epic fail :P 18:36:07 <peter1138> technically the limit is 1 more in temperate than other climates 18:36:28 <peter1138> but that gives you a conceptual problem 18:36:45 <ZxBiohazardZx> * Note: Cases are out of order for hysterical reasons. '0' is last. 18:36:49 <peter1138> so i ignored that detail 18:36:50 <ZxBiohazardZx> Hysterical reasons? 18:36:53 <ZxBiohazardZx> Historical reasons? 18:36:58 <ZxBiohazardZx> ^^ 18:37:00 <peter1138> hysterical raisons 18:37:03 <peter1138> hysterical raisins even 18:37:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> frosch to blame there 18:37:21 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka should be historical? 18:37:33 <peter1138> not really 18:38:29 <ZxBiohazardZx> Cases are out of order for historical reasons, not hysterical, i dont see hysteria as a reason, history could be a reason if your to lazy to reorder them 18:38:51 <peter1138> http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hysterical-reasons.html 18:39:21 <peter1138> it's just a bit of light-hearted commentary 18:39:22 <ZxBiohazardZx> bug-by-bug compatible :P 18:39:34 <ZxBiohazardZx> ah meh fine then 18:40:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> Implement station randomisation triggers. whats that doing for gameplay? 18:40:26 <ZxBiohazardZx> it affects pathfinding? 18:40:46 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, like if you want to proces microsoft-C-code, you need not only adhere to the microsoft-C-specs, but also the microsoft-C-bugs 18:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: no, it's pure eyecandy 18:41:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> it adds an option to do something upon the enums listed? 18:41:46 <ZxBiohazardZx> for grfs 18:41:48 <ZxBiohazardZx> ? 18:42:06 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka new cargo, cargo taken etc 18:42:06 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea what you're referring to 18:42:12 <ZxBiohazardZx> nvm 18:42:31 <peter1138> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RandomAction2 18:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, so e.g. stations that display passengers show the passengers at different location, each time a train came to pick them up 18:43:10 <peter1138> if it was coded right 18:43:11 <ZxBiohazardZx> ah thx 18:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it depends on which station NewGRF you use 18:44:19 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 18:45:11 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:52 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 18:46:30 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24934 /trunk/src/lang (14 files) (2013-01-22 18:46:08 UTC) 18:46:31 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:46:32 <DorpsGek> belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm 18:46:33 <DorpsGek> croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne 18:46:34 <DorpsGek> danish - 9 changes by beruic 18:46:35 <DorpsGek> dutch - 1 changes by habell 18:46:36 <DorpsGek> english_US - 1 changes by Rubidium 18:46:37 <DorpsGek> esperanto - 10 changes by Mojosa 18:46:38 <DorpsGek> finnish - 1 changes by jpx_ 18:46:39 <DorpsGek> french - 1 changes by Snail_ 18:46:40 <DorpsGek> icelandic - 1 changes by Stimrol 18:46:41 <DorpsGek> indonesian - 3 changes by Yoursnotmine 18:46:42 <DorpsGek> italian - 1 changes by Snail_ 18:46:43 <DorpsGek> norwegian_nynorsk - 7 changes by lbrowncastle 18:46:44 <DorpsGek> russian - 4 changes by Lone_Wolf 18:46:45 <DorpsGek> turkish - 2 changes by magnum06 18:46:55 <Eddi|zuHause> we have too many languages 18:47:03 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24935 /trunk/src/lang (brazilian_portuguese.txt korean.txt) (2013-01-22 18:46:57 UTC) 18:47:04 <DorpsGek> -Fix: language errors 18:47:16 <MNIM> Eddi|zuHause: I say, time for some genocide then? 18:47:39 <Supercheese> War of the Words 18:47:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not in a position to comment on that 18:48:54 <MNIM> Silly germans and their ick-reaction to anything pertaining to genocide, war and nazism. :P 18:50:47 <__ln__> so many languages yet no occitan. 18:51:43 <Prof_Frink> Don't mention the war! 18:51:53 <__ln__> There was a war? 18:52:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, in iraq, in afghanistan, and now in mali 18:52:49 <Supercheese> and Libya, Egypt... 18:53:01 <Eddi|zuHause> there was no war in egypt 18:53:07 <Supercheese> civil war eh 18:53:16 <Eddi|zuHause> there was no civil war either 18:53:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a civil war in syria 18:54:02 <ZxBiohazardZx> your forgetting Siria (or however you spell it in english) 18:54:07 <Supercheese> revolution, civil war, eh, semantics 18:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a revolution in egypt, but not every revolution is a full blown civil war 18:54:08 <Prof_Frink> I like the idea of a civil war. 18:54:20 <__ln__> the afghanistan situation is a crisis, not a war, our prime minister or somebody has insisted. 18:54:24 <Prof_Frink> "I say old chap, would you mind terribly if I were to shoot you?" 18:55:01 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: our defence minister admitted to it being a war. and then he had to step down, because of copyright infringement 18:55:44 <__ln__> finnish defence forces doesn't participate in wars abroad, but they can participate in a crisis. 18:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: german military forces cannot take part in offensive wars 18:56:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it says so in the constitution 18:56:36 <__ln__> what about offensive crises? 18:56:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the americans forced us to put that in, even. 18:57:37 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #openttd [] 18:58:57 <__ln__> still amazes me that germany wasn't denied having submarines. finland was, even though the whole fleet was as much as five during the war(s). 19:00:26 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: they tried that after WWI 19:00:51 <Eddi|zuHause> which lead to that giant disaster in the first place 19:02:47 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i think the versailles treaty said something like "germany may have 6 warships" 19:04:52 <frosch123> which was obviously a mistake; they should have let them allowed to dump all money into useless ships 19:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i think in the late 1920s a government actually broke up over money for renewing those warships 19:06:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:08:44 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> (mind you that this was in the wake of the worldwide economical crisis) 19:10:52 <__ln__> MNIM: would we have allowed the nazi germany to host olympic games? 19:14:08 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: he's not american :p 19:14:21 <andythenorth> is that Godwin? 19:14:23 <andythenorth> game over 19:14:28 *** roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.86.212] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:16:46 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:25:25 <MNIM> __ln__: well, they did, didn't they? 19:28:39 <__ln__> MNIM: did, twice 19:32:10 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:30 <peter1138> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zA2vPX-CWSE 19:39:59 <Supercheese> those dances have virtually zero footwork 19:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> we had this one already 19:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i got this from another channel, dunno 19:52:00 <peter1138> do you think FS#54 can be closed? 19:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause> as in "won't do it"? 19:54:43 <peter1138> well it zooms 19:55:21 <blathijs> if the music was swapped to Dutch polka. (...) Polka tune from "Palemiger Spatzen - Alpenhornzauber" <-- That's German Polka, not Dutch 19:55:40 <blathijs> I was nearly tempted to comment on Youtube, but let's not ("Someone is wrong on the internet!") 19:55:53 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: well it zooms out, not in 19:56:26 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: and here i was thinking that polka actually was polish 20:18:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:18:18 <Wolf01> hello 20:26:36 <__ln__> buona 20:30:01 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:31:14 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-178-142-077-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 20:34:45 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:47:21 *** juanjo [4dd29aef@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:47:48 <juanjo> @peter1138: about r24933, it is not per company as the commit states 20:47:56 <juanjo> you can set the same name for groups of different vehicle type, but not for different companies; ie, if a company has a group of trains named Goods, then other companies cannot name a group of trains with the name Goods 20:48:09 <juanjo> see http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2067/ , although I would choose a shorter name for the function. 20:50:22 <frosch123> hmm, didn't we have that name issue already before with something else? 20:50:39 <frosch123> i remember some discussion about what happening when taking over companies 20:53:18 <juanjo> ok. Is it troublesome to have two groups named the same way? 20:54:10 <juanjo> I guess it can be confusing after taking over a company having two groups with the same name 20:54:45 <frosch123> i don't quite remember the argument :) i only remember that SmatZ was involved :) 20:55:53 <juanjo> is there any function that depends on group names (apart from IsUniqueGroupName()) ? 20:55:56 <NGC3982> __ln__: Nope, i guess i'm there soon, though. 20:56:46 <frosch123> i think group names only appear in the group list and in the caption of the autoreplace window 20:57:49 <peter1138> oh well 20:58:06 <peter1138> could just remove the uniqueness test completely 20:58:13 <peter1138> it's not like it's hugely important 20:59:48 <juanjo> it is important names are unique, so you know which group you are autoreplacing 21:00:18 <frosch123> well, you can always blame it on the player :p 21:00:27 <frosch123> it's important for town names, so you know where stuff is 21:00:35 <juanjo> but you should name the groups the way you like, regardless of competitors group names 21:00:40 <peter1138> you choose the name, if you need it unique you make it unique? 21:00:43 <frosch123> but groups... 21:01:08 <frosch123> though maybe they should act like the vehicles 21:01:27 <frosch123> if you name two groups the same, one is appended a "2" automatically 21:01:36 <peter1138> heh 21:01:46 <peter1138> that's only on cloning a vehicle isn't it? 21:01:59 <frosch123> no idea :) 21:02:47 <peter1138> besides... http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/hgroup1.png 21:03:23 <juanjo> what about resetting group names when a company is acquired? 21:03:27 <frosch123> what's that? subgroups? 21:03:34 <peter1138> subgroups, yes 21:03:50 <peter1138> juanjo, doable. if nameisalreadyused, name = null 21:03:52 <frosch123> i thought groups are uncool :p you want rules to form groups 21:03:54 <Supercheese> Or appending "<acquiredCompanyName>" or some variant to the acquired groups 21:04:16 <Supercheese> Coal Trains -- BlahBlah Transport 21:04:18 <peter1138> everybody wants rules for everyhing :-( 21:04:30 <juanjo> i always thought groups shouldn't exist and use orderlists instead 21:04:38 <peter1138> always a pain in the arse to design a nice rule system, gui and code-wise 21:04:45 <peter1138> juanjo, yes well 21:04:47 <frosch123> peter1138: it just fits with conditional orders and programmable signals :) 21:05:02 <peter1138> i'm contemplating making the order list window... 21:05:37 <peter1138> they don't have names though 21:05:58 <juanjo> supercheese: instead of appending, just "Acquired company name: blablabla" 21:06:00 <peter1138> or an owner, actually, heh 21:06:12 <Supercheese> juanjo: Yeah, something like that 21:06:49 <peter1138> non-unique group names along with sub-groups, but all the acquired company's groups in a sub-group 21:06:54 <peter1138> *put 21:06:57 * Supercheese is off to university class 21:09:35 <peter1138> oh god 21:09:40 <peter1138> i call the branch... 21:09:44 <peter1138> advanced order list 21:09:47 <peter1138> or aol for short :( 21:10:05 <juanjo> which branch? 21:11:04 <peter1138> 21:04 < juanjo> i always thought groups shouldn't exist and use orderlists instead 21:11:10 <peter1138> 21:05 <@peter1138> i'm contemplating making the order list window... 21:11:13 <peter1138> etc etc 21:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just thinking: "one troll? hundreds!!!" 21:13:54 <Rubidium> those who say someone is a troll, is likely the troll, right? So if I interpret that right, I'm the troll now. Q.E.D. 21:14:02 <peter1138> hmm, is it possible to share orders between different vehicle types? 21:14:09 <Rubidium> no 21:14:30 <Rubidium> probably not even between aircraft/helicopters and truck/bus 21:14:48 <Rubidium> or at least there's lot of checks ensuring the vehicle can "reach" the station 21:15:07 <Rubidium> "reach" as in: has bay/landing spot/whatever that supports the type 21:16:10 <peter1138> indeed 21:16:16 <peter1138> bus/truck must match 21:17:49 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 21:18:41 <peter1138> hmm 21:19:24 <peter1138> dst->orders.list = src->orders.list 21:19:32 <peter1138> means it's using the same OrderList, right? 21:19:45 <Rubidium> looks like it 21:19:47 <peter1138> so why does it check if it can allocate a new orderlist? 21:19:55 <Rubidium> for another case? 21:20:00 <Rubidium> where is it exactly? 21:20:01 <andythenorth> hrm 21:20:07 <andythenorth> my comment was genuine 21:20:10 <andythenorth> what is TROLL? 21:20:11 <peter1138> order_cmd.cpp:1491 21:20:24 <peter1138> specifically in the CO_SHARE case 21:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause> not everything that you think is genious is actually genious 21:21:04 <Eddi|zuHause> like, i did stop me from making about 10 posts to that topic since yesterday 21:21:19 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Especially that spelling of genius :P 21:21:25 <Rubidium> peter1138: order.list == NULL in that case 21:21:29 <andythenorth> genious probably is a real work 21:21:34 <Rubidium> so it assigns NULL to dst->orders.list 21:21:36 <andythenorth> if you can have ingenious... 21:21:43 <andythenorth> then defacto, there is probably genious 21:21:44 <Rubidium> and AddToShared then constructs the OrderList 21:21:47 * FLHerne finds the dictionary 21:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i only reported his original post that just said "troll", with the reason: "troll" 21:22:01 <frosch123> [22:21] <Eddi|zuHause> like, i did stop me from making about 10 posts to that topic since yesterday <- that's certainly genious 21:22:05 <Eddi|zuHause> THAT was genious :p 21:22:15 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is he a trolll? I think he's genuine 21:22:21 <andythenorth> I think he's also feeling hurt 21:22:49 <Rubidium> hmm... I should move that to OpenTTD's off-topic section: suggestions 21:23:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CBDD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:23:56 <FLHerne> Nothing between 'genetive' and 'genius' in my Oxford Concise :P 21:24:22 <andythenorth> I certainly didn't intend to derail the topic :P 21:24:25 <andythenorth> which is highly valuable 21:25:11 <peter1138> hmm, there's no check for planes/helis though 21:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: well, i can only deal with logical spellings :p 21:25:55 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: This is English. Why on earth do you expect logical spellings!? 21:25:57 <Rubidium> FLHerne: mine has 4: genito-, genitor, genito-urinary and geniture 21:26:10 <FLHerne> Rubidium: I need a bigger dictionary :D 21:26:20 <andythenorth> FLHerne: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=genious 21:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: for sure i'd also spell it genitive 21:26:52 <Rubidium> but it's the 2 inch version of the Oxford dictionary 21:26:54 <FLHerne> andythenorth: That one doesn't count :P 21:27:00 <andythenorth> of course it counts :P 21:27:24 <FLHerne> Rubidium: Mine's about 2 inches, but it also has a thesaurus that I never use... 21:27:45 <frosch123> peter1138: i guess there is neither for artic / non-artic rv 21:27:52 <peter1138> nope 21:27:54 <peter1138> but 21:27:57 <FLHerne> Who was it that claimed 'ghoti' spelt fish? 21:27:58 <frosch123> sharing them works at least sometimes 21:28:04 <Rubidium> 55x233x156 mm (or 1.57 kg) 21:28:05 <NGC3982> "< FLHerne> Rubidium: Mine's about 2 inches" *saves in a little box* 21:28:06 *** Superuser [~root@host86-152-172-169.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:28:09 <peter1138> yeah, it checks if the vehicle can use the stop 21:28:18 <FLHerne> NGC3982: Quit being Bukkit :P 21:28:25 <andythenorth> FLHerne: there is little to be gained by comparing sizes 21:28:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DA5D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:28:35 <NGC3982> FLHerne: What Andy said. 21:28:36 <NGC3982> :D 21:30:06 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Within books of a similar layout and genre, volume is well-correlated with the quantity of content... :D 21:30:24 *** juanjo [4dd29aef@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:34:10 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: what you miss when you take the dictionary as authoritive how to write things, is that the dictionary is just a reflection on how things are written. which is somewhat recursive 21:34:52 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: There are too many words (and spellings) already :P 21:36:24 <Rubidium> though I think English has less words than Dutch or German (though there are more words in the English dictionary) 21:36:56 <Rubidium> but in at least Dutch there's mostly a single spelling 21:37:48 <Rubidium> with English and its "dialects", especially American, there are annoying differences in spelling 21:38:43 <Rubidium> how one can annoy coworkers by writing kilometre 21:40:25 <FLHerne> Rubidium: That's the correct spelling :D 21:42:24 <Rubidium> though their spell checker triggers as they are mostly configured to American 21:42:32 <Rubidium> (annoyingly) 21:44:19 <peter1138> :q 21:51:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CBDD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:52:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CBDD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:54:16 *** juanjo [4dd22078@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:55:58 <peter1138> Pikka, is the voyager meant to smoke every vehicle? 22:01:12 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08ee77.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 22:14:19 <peter1138> hmm, can industry sets affect town ratings? 22:14:50 <NGC3982> Please make a Star Trek Voyager NewGRF. 22:15:10 <NGC3982> Shipping goods in Warp 9.8 should be fub. 22:15:16 <NGC3982> fun/fubar. 22:15:32 <andythenorth> peter1138: you found a bug, or got an idea? 22:16:43 <frosch123> i think if you fund an industry the tree killing might affect the funder 22:16:57 <frosch123> but other than that, there shouldn't :) 22:17:21 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B850.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:02 <Rubidium> NGC3982: then transport goods at warp 10; with a bit of luck they arrive fresher than when they were shipped ;) 22:19:11 <NGC3982> Rubidium: Hehe. 22:19:19 <NGC3982> It would be a fun thing to see 22:19:35 <NGC3982> Tiles being shorter in front of it, and longer behind it 22:19:39 <NGC3982> And the colors. 22:26:03 <frosch123> night 22:26:06 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4e28.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:40 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:29:44 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:43:34 *** juanjo [4dd22078@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:46:42 <andythenorth> bye 22:46:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 22:47:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:47:59 <andythenorth> V453000: I call you "TROLL" 22:48:04 <andythenorth> also v2.0 is done 22:48:09 <andythenorth> I mentioned that the other day 22:48:12 <V453000> ^^ 22:48:14 <andythenorth> we should close the thread 22:48:30 <Zuu> andythenorth: You should start making AI/GS libraries if you want to boost your bananas download count. 22:48:38 <andythenorth> he 22:48:43 <Zuu> SuperLib is currently about 1.1M in total downloads. 22:48:55 <andythenorth> Wasila set out two goals here http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=856542#p856542 22:49:01 <andythenorth> at the start of the v2.0 thread 22:49:03 <andythenorth> one is invalid 22:49:05 <andythenorth> and the other is done 22:49:48 <V453000> that thread is a joke from the start :) 22:50:02 <andythenorth> not entirely 22:50:05 <andythenorth> GS is done :) 22:50:20 <andythenorth> so the OP called it correctly 22:50:30 <Zuu> So next version have to be 2.1 to correct for not making the previous version 2.0? 22:50:58 <andythenorth> :) 22:53:18 <Zuu> That said, it is quite useful that so far, x in 1.x give the last digit in the year it was released. 23:01:46 <FLHerne> Is there anything that *would* inspire a 2.0 release? 23:02:45 <FLHerne> Cargo routing of some sort, perhaps? Underground layer (if even possible)? 23:03:05 * FLHerne can't really think of anything that would have a huge impact on the game 23:04:27 <planetmaker> That's one of the questions, FLHerne :-) 23:05:04 <planetmaker> layered map array with rotation maybe. and a re-worked client-server model :D 23:05:05 <FLHerne> planetmaker: Did anyone think of an anwer? :P 23:05:19 <planetmaker> yeah... people in that thread ;-) 23:05:43 <NGC3982> It's in the middle of the night and i am hungry. 23:05:45 <FLHerne> Did anyone who actually has something to do with development/numbering think of one? 23:05:46 <NGC3982> Well, that sucks. 23:06:14 <planetmaker> of an answer? 23:06:39 <NGC3982> And i hate trams. 23:06:47 <planetmaker> we started the thread as we were unsure. 1.0 had a clear vision: all what TTD could but all on its own, a 100% free game 23:07:01 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/GkSZFXF.png 23:07:03 <planetmaker> But the question is: what's the vision for the future? 23:07:05 <NGC3982> All the frickin' times.. 23:07:12 <planetmaker> What do we want to achieve? And aim for? 23:07:27 <planetmaker> just piling features is no vision :-) 23:07:40 <NGC3982> planetmaker: Is that no longer a notion that the developers push forward? 23:07:49 <NGC3982> The 100% free game. 23:07:59 <planetmaker> we're there. We achieved that goal 23:08:40 <NGC3982> I would not say it's a thing that you solve once, and never turn back too. 23:09:05 <NGC3982> Developers leave, and developers come. Are you sure the non commercial window that you look trough is there in ten years? 23:09:06 <V453000> it was a milestone for 1.0 is what matters here :) 23:09:34 <NGC3982> Indeed. 23:09:36 <NGC3982> I guess. 23:10:09 <planetmaker> NGC3982, no-one can change the license OpenTTD is distributed under 23:10:34 <NGC3982> I see. 23:10:51 <planetmaker> so with GPL as license, that's feasible. But everyone will always be able to get the source code and just compile themselves 23:10:55 <NGC3982> Does that apply to everything connected to the game? NewGRF's, and such? 23:11:02 <planetmaker> and is allowed to give it away for free 23:11:02 <Terkhen> good night 23:11:19 <V453000> each newgrf has its own license NGC3982 23:11:19 <planetmaker> NewGRFs are their own thing. As you should know. they have separate licenses 23:11:22 <planetmaker> night, Terkhen 23:11:32 <NGC3982> Ok. 23:12:07 <planetmaker> and there are enough people writing newgrfs which exercise quite rigidly their copyright and don't grant any rights to the user than simply using hte newgrf 23:12:21 <NGC3982> I see. 23:14:56 <planetmaker> it's actually worse with admin scripts... they exist. But none is available 23:18:37 <Supercheese> I think most people don't even know admin scripts exist, or what they are 23:18:46 <Supercheese> I'm not even sure 23:18:50 <planetmaker> that's likely right 23:19:01 <planetmaker> but most people don't need them either 23:19:06 <NGC3982> I have no idea what they are. 23:19:08 <Supercheese> some server-side thingy that communicates with/via admin port 23:19:12 <Supercheese> my guess 23:19:24 <planetmaker> yes. control interface for servers 23:19:33 <NGC3982> I see 23:28:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:32:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CBDD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:44:35 *** jamesgo [~james@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 23:45:49 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:49:49 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:51:46 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:53:51 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:54:21 * Supercheese ponders adding 2x and 4x zoom sprites to Eyecandy Road Vehicles 23:54:41 <Supercheese> I have the renders, I just have to sort out how the action colors might work 23:56:02 <Superuser> NEIN 23:57:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: you can use 8bpp zoom sprites, then the action colours work exactly like before 23:58:12 <Supercheese> Yes, I'm testing if I convert the renders to 8bpp if they look 'good enough' 23:58:18 *** Celestar_ [~vici@mnch-5d854726.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:58:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: with 32bpp there's some overlay, but i have no clue how it actually works 23:58:51 <Supercheese> Yeah...