Log for #openttd on 1st February 2013:
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00:24:10  <Supercheese> "Transfer and wait for any full load with auto-refit to available cargo"
00:24:13  <Supercheese> Gets a bit wordy
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00:56:01  <Flygon> It's not wordy
00:56:03  <Flygon> It's Treky!
00:56:11  <Flygon> In fact
00:56:20  <Flygon> It sounds just like something from the bridge of the Enterprise
00:57:13  <peter1138> hm
00:58:44  <Supercheese> You could abbreviate it as T&WAFLw/AR2AC  :P
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01:11:50  <peter1138> YCAIA
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01:52:13  <Flygon> YOLO
02:02:48  <peter1138> if you're a cat, YOLTT
02:03:02  <Supercheese> Ten? Not nine?
02:03:22  <peter1138> thrice thrice
02:04:11  <Supercheese> I see...
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02:22:48  <Flurret> I'ma part cat :P
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04:16:32  <Supercheese> Hmm I wonder why the early metal works industry isn't in FIRS Basic
04:16:38  <Supercheese> Iron Ore + Wood -> Metal
04:16:45  <Supercheese> all those cargoes are in basic...
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04:32:04  <peter1138> early metal works?
04:32:08  <peter1138> like 1000 BC?
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04:38:07  <Flygon> Man
04:38:19  <Flygon> peter1138: Pre-Christ GRF :P
04:38:33  <Flygon> Also, I really want Tram and Bus stations on Bridges D:
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04:40:38  <Pikka> cool, oftc let me in
04:41:02  <Pikka> early metal doesn't work, btw
04:45:04  <Pikka> hmm
04:45:13  <Supercheese> ?
04:45:29  <Pikka> what with the declutter parameter I might want to extend the life of some of the smaller tank locos in UKRS2...
04:45:58  <Supercheese> Jinties and the like?
04:46:04  <Supercheese> Or would that be Jintys?
04:46:48  <Supercheese> 1890-1970, impressive lifetime
04:52:16  <Pikka> pannier tanks at least
04:52:44  <Pikka> with the declutter parameter they disappear in the mid 50s, when they should probably stay available until the diesels that replace them
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11:08:49  <peter1138> oh right, convert the game fully to c++
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11:27:11  <peter1138>
11:27:13  <peter1138> best ever
11:32:13  <Pikka> yes?
11:32:23  <peter1138> pikka :D
11:32:52  <Pikka> does it?
11:32:59  <peter1138> what who
11:33:10  <Pikka> si
11:36:14  <Pikka> but the real question is
11:36:32  <Pikka> whither coffee icecream?
11:36:41  <peter1138> no
11:37:10  <peter1138>
11:37:15  <peter1138> so yeah, was that useful to you?
11:38:05  <Pikka> terrifying D;
11:38:15  <peter1138> yes
11:39:36  <peter1138> hmm, i dunno the order of the sprites off hand :p
11:49:53  <CornishPasty> Combines are evil, kill them with your crowbar!
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11:59:12  <__ln__> i see things in three
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12:02:54  <MNIM> I am terrible.
12:03:12  <MNIM> It's 2030 and Im FINALLY phasing out that steam service to a tourist attraction.
12:05:20  <Pinkbeast> That is terrible - build 5ATs and keep it going
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12:06:17  <MNIM> DB 01s actually
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12:08:23  <MNIM> Don't worry though, Im keeping 'em running
12:09:15  <peter1138> breakdowns off?
12:10:40  <MNIM> No
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12:56:02  <Bobjr> Hello"!
12:58:07  <Bobjr> I was hoping someone could answer a question of mine regarding valuables?
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13:04:36  <peter1138> try asking it
13:04:59  <Bobjr> Sorry
13:05:24  <Bobjr> I send a train of valuables in the appropriate train car from one town to the other, both who say they accept valuables
13:05:35  <Bobjr> However there is no profit, and if I force it to unload it just switches valuables
13:05:49  <Bobjr> That is unloads valuables with no profit, then loads new ones without profit
13:05:51  <Bobjr> What gives?
13:06:24  <peter1138> don't use unload or transfer orders
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13:06:51  <Flygon> MNIM: I've have always preffered a feature that allows you to have no breakdowns, but would increase the cost of maintainence instead ^^
13:07:20  <Bobjr> even without the unload order it just trades valuables for no money
13:08:52  <Pikka> post on the forums with a savegame, bobjr
13:09:13  <Pikka> easier than us trying to crystalball it
13:09:21  <Bobjr> Good point
13:10:57  <Bobjr> Alright thanks, have a good day guys!
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13:11:24  <Pikka> that got rid of him :D
13:13:34  <Flygon> I'd have suggested the use of Dropbox
13:38:04  <MNIM> hmmmh
13:39:55  <MNIM> does anyone know if 2CC E-locs have (reduced) running costs when being towed along a track without power?
13:48:03  <Pinkbeast> I could be wrong but I thought it was only UKRS2 that varied running costs with power output.
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13:51:32  <MNIM> hmmmh, shame.
13:52:51  <MNIM> could've exploited that to turn my slow turbine mountain trains into high speed trains on electrified flat land lines
13:54:35  <Flygon> Can locomotives be towed above max speed?
13:55:30  <MNIM> no, but they're not reaching max speed.
13:56:37  <Markk> Pinkbeast: 2cc does that as well.
13:57:13  <MNIM> oh, cool
13:57:52  <peter1138> Flygon, locos are never towed
13:58:08  <peter1138> Flygon, i lied, they're towed if they're unpowered i suppose
13:58:13  <Flygon> Well, yeah
13:58:15  <peter1138> but still
13:58:25  <Flygon> Can loco's in OpenTTD be towed by a diff loco above max speed?
13:58:31  <Flygon> As per MNIM's suggestion
13:58:36  <Flygon> In my expereince? No.
13:58:39  <peter1138> no
13:58:50  <Flygon> It'd be a nice feature, though
13:58:53  <peter1138> because max speed comes from all parts of the train
13:59:11  <Flygon> As in, locos having seperate max self-powered speed, and max towed speed
14:00:19  <Flygon> Anyway, brb
14:00:20  <Flygon> Dishes
14:00:48  <MNIM> that would only be if the drivetrain has a different max speed from the rolling part and can be decoupled from it
14:01:37  <Pinkbeast> Steam locomotives are usually towed with coupling rods off so that's not totally unprecedented
14:09:06  <MNIM> Hmmmmh, I suppose, but would they have different towed/powered speeds?
14:28:24  <Flygon> Back
14:28:44  <Flygon> Pinkbeast: Yeah, Steam Locomotives were what were specifically in mind
14:29:07  <Flygon> I know that there's quite a few examples being towed faster than it could hope to achieve light engine
14:30:54  <Belugas> hello
14:31:48  <Flygon> Howdy
14:32:08  <Flygon> Can Electric tractioned locomotives be driven in 'neutral'?
14:34:42  <planetmaker> hello
14:34:59  <Pinkbeast> I believe so - diesels are sent to rescue stricken electrics and of course they have to be able to move them
14:35:53  <Sacro> Yes
14:35:57  <Sacro> of course they can
14:36:01  <Flygon> Oh, excellent
14:36:22  <Flygon> Then such a feature in OpenTTD isn't entirely unrealistic then, for neither steam, nor diesel, nor electric
14:36:38  <Flygon> Though, somehow removing driving rods @ 96km/h would be a worry :P
14:36:50  <Sacro> I'm not sure towing a steam loco is that simple
14:37:07  <Flygon> Eh, a Steam loco towing a Diesel is simple, though
14:37:20  <Sacro> true
14:37:35  <Pinkbeast> Sacro: well, taking the coupling rods off is a job for a fitter. It wouldn't be done routinely.
14:37:50  <Flygon> West Coast Railways had Steam Locomotives fitted with DMU controls so that the locomotive could be accelerated far faster, or so that it could be pushed in case of steam locomotive failure
14:38:15  <Flygon> And the Steam loco regularly went over 120km/h, which is over 20km/h faster than the T/P-class Diesels they often used
14:38:34  <Flygon> Though, it was in the OSpeed range of the S and B classes they sometimes used
14:41:13  <Flygon> Pre-WCR days, though, V/Line would just run the R-class steamers solo for crew training (no Diesel), keep in mind, this's the late 80s, early 90s
14:46:16  <Terkhen> hello
14:47:45  <Flygon> Yo
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15:30:54  <MNIM> ouch
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15:31:00  <MNIM> there goes my death toll again
15:31:16  <MNIM> 916 die in a (slow) collision
15:31:55  <goodger> I do like TTD's magic fireballs
15:32:26  <TinoDidriksen> TTD: Hollywood Edition
15:32:45  <MNIM> hahaha
15:32:48  <MNIM> so it seems
15:35:12  <Flygon> MNIM: I once rear ended a woman below 5km/h. She charged me for her headlights.
15:37:38  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
15:37:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: you realize that fraud is a serious crime?
15:38:12  <Flygon> Eddi: It wasn't the only seemingly frivirlous thing that she charged 00 for
15:38:20  <Flygon> But it didn't occour to us at the time that we could sue her
15:38:40  <Flygon> Only damage I saw was some dints on her rear bumper
15:38:54  <Flygon> If anything, my car got the worst damage. Some paint scraped off it.
15:39:20  <Flygon> If she was driving a Magna, like I was, she'd have been smart enough to just not give a $*(@ and drive off @_@
15:39:40  <Flygon> Magna's: Australia's disposable car
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17:02:00  <NGC3982> In ~/.openttd, i have several configs i have named openttd_config1/2/3, and so on.
17:02:26  <NGC3982> If i start a game with openttd -D -c <path+filename> it (as it should starts the game with the cfg file.
17:02:57  <NGC3982> If i then shut the game down, and start it again with a new <path+filename>, it writes the data from the old config file onto the new one.
17:03:04  <peter1138> that sentence is broken
17:03:16  <NGC3982> Oh, yes.
17:03:40  <NGC3982> Bah, i shouldn't do this right now. I'm so tired and i have the most massive of headaches
17:03:44  <NGC3982> Never mind.
17:04:13  <peter1138> but it won't be overwriting configs like that
17:05:00  <NGC3982> It does something.
17:05:19  <NGC3982> Ill retry it step by step
17:05:25  <NGC3982> After i have calmed down a bit.
17:06:45  <peter1138> if you start a game with -c blah it'll only ever overwrite that file
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17:13:45  <NGC3982> Let's see then.
17:18:46  <NGC3982> I copy the new file to ~/.openttd. I view it with nano, at it seems correct. I start the game with openttd -D -c <path+file>, i enter the game on my windows computer. i notice that no grfs are loaded, but the dedicated server window does not give any indication of error.
17:19:19  <NGC3982> I then close the server and open the very same config file with nano, at it has been over-written with the original openttd.cfg content.
17:19:36  <NGC3982> If that is what's going to happend, i have for missjudged the man or something.
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17:20:17  <NGC3982> My next experiment will be to remove all cfg files, add only one, and try again.
17:20:28  <ni291187> what is this
17:20:33  <ni291187> wheree am i
17:20:46  <Pinkbeast> NGC: add all config files to version control now
17:20:53  <ni291187> are you guys open ttd junkies
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17:21:44  <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: That subversion thingy?
17:21:53  <Pinkbeast> Whatever your preferred VCS is.
17:22:25  <NGC3982> Well, i have no idea, and i have never heard of it before. I found it on the site just now. Ill read trough it.
17:22:37  <Pinkbeast> Oh, god, you're a Windows user?
17:22:51  <Pinkbeast> Er well write a batch file that copies all your config files somewhere or something.
17:23:05  <NGC3982> Normally, yes. I have just started using Debian as my server system.
17:23:15  <NGC3982> Err
17:23:18  <Pinkbeast> Didn't take my advice, huh?
17:23:29  <NGC3982> Well, heh.
17:23:57  <NGC3982> Actually, most people i talked to prefered Debian over Ubuntu. Though, i guess you are correct in that Ubuntu might be a better choise for beginners like me.
17:24:17  <MNIM> Try Mint instead
17:24:24  <Pinkbeast> I prefer Debian for me, but then I have been a Unix sysadmin for a wee while.
17:24:24  <MNIM> it's like Ubuntu, except not sucky.
17:24:29  <NGC3982> I will not change operating system just like that.
17:24:32  <NGC3982> That's asking for trouble.
17:24:58  <MNIM> Muh. Ubuntu to mint shouldn't be too hard.
17:25:42  <MNIM> I've done it once.
17:25:49  <NGC3982> That is not important when i have just learned using the basics of this operating system :)
17:26:00  <NGC3982> But yes, i will consider it if this doesn't work out.
17:27:15  <peter1138> Hi
17:28:17  <peter1138> NGC3982, stick with it. it honestly won't be any better with a different distribution
17:28:35  <NGC3982> Yes, i guess so.
17:28:41  <peter1138> they all have their quirks, people recommend whichever because they're used to the quirks and they don't realise they're quirky
17:29:02  <NGC3982> Let's see. I have removed all of the config files and added an original openttd.cfg (with a NewGRF list).
17:29:36  <NGC3982> peter1138: That sounds logical.
17:30:03  <peter1138> and the stuff you're dealing with now isn't anything distro specific anyway
17:30:11  <NGC3982> Hm, allright. It started the server (with no error message) with no NewGRF's. Time to investigate the config file.
17:30:16  <NGC3982> Indeed.
17:30:33  <NGC3982> ..And it replaced it
17:30:39  <NGC3982> With a non-existant file.
17:31:07  <peter1138> no
17:31:27  <peter1138> openttd removes the lines from the config cos they didn't exist
17:31:28  <NGC3982> Where "non-existant" is the file i removed just before starting the server.
17:31:30  <peter1138> it's kinda annoying
17:31:36  <NGC3982> Uhm, ok
17:31:46  <peter1138> basically they're not loaded
17:31:52  <NGC3982> But no, it did -add- the stuff from the old config file
17:31:54  <peter1138> when you exit it saves the config as it is
17:32:07  <peter1138> but because they're weren't loaded, they're not in memory, therefore they're not saved
17:32:11  <Pinkbeast> NGC: of course this stuff about quirks is not why I recommended to you what I did.
17:32:23  <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: I understand that. :)
17:32:44  <NGC3982> I need to pastebin this process.
17:32:46  <peter1138> vcs *is* a good idea for configs
17:32:58  <peter1138> that's why openttd should use .config
17:33:03  <peter1138> so we can just have .config in vcs
17:33:05  <Pinkbeast> And for any file that some helpful program might blow away under your feet
17:33:05  <peter1138> and /etc of course
17:33:19  <peter1138> Pinkbeast, do you vcs your whole system? :D
17:33:29  <NGC3982> Well, shouldnt i first make sure that the error isnt user-made?
17:33:38  * NGC3982 puts the entire story in a pastebin
17:34:26  <Pinkbeast> Not yet.
17:34:43  <Pinkbeast> Also here I'm on a snapshotting filesystem which makes one _ever_ so lazy
17:40:32  <peter1138> heh
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17:45:28  <NGC3982>
17:45:31  <NGC3982> Here is the full scenario.
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17:52:41  <NGC3982> Bah, i have no idea on what's going on anymore.
17:53:44  <Pinkbeast> I'm afraid I am not qualified to help you with this.
17:54:06  <NGC3982> But VCS is ..something that can?
17:54:17  <NGC3982> It looks like a bug report system
17:54:27  <NGC3982> I'm actually not sure if it's a bug, or if i'm just wrong.
17:54:39  <Alberth> vcs keeps track of all versions of files you ever gave it to it
17:54:56  <NGC3982> Ah, i see.
17:55:42  <Alberth> and you can give a message with each change, which is usually a line "I changed this and this because ..."
17:56:01  * NGC3982 tries.
17:56:16  <Alberth> and later you can look back at how you changed exactly what when,and why
17:58:11  <Alberth> so it takes away the boring administration of which versions you exactly have
17:59:01  <Alberth> and of course you can go back to a previous version, make a copy, revert back to it, etc etc
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18:00:58  <NGC3982> I see.
18:01:30  <NGC3982> I do not understand this. Removing Openttd with apt-get remove (openttd and openttd-data) doesn't remove anything.
18:03:37  <Alberth> are the files owned by the package manager?
18:04:06  <Alberth> (I don't run debian, so I don't know details here)
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18:04:47  <NGC3982> they are owned by a user, and i removed them with sudo.
18:10:39  <NGC3982> I removed the entire .openttd folder and re-installed it
18:10:43  <NGC3982> Of course, that did not work
18:10:49  <NGC3982> I'm seriosly only making it worse
18:16:42  <Alberth> perhaps you should explain what you're aiming for :)
18:17:25  <NGC3982> I fixed it.
18:17:28  <NGC3982> At least this error.
18:18:17  <NGC3982> I couldn't remove it, so i rm-rf:d it, installed the wrong version with apt-get, removed the wrong version with apt-get (to get the correct lib's so i could:), installed the new version with dpkg.
18:18:31  <NGC3982> So now, i'm at square one, a default OpenTTD install that works.
18:18:41  <peter1138> o_O
18:19:13  <peter1138> packages are never owned or installed as a user
18:19:31  <peter1138> running openttd as a user will never mess with the installaion
18:19:43  <peter1138> there is no need to uninstall and reinstall to "fix things"
18:20:28  <peter1138> so what's the difference between openttd_advertise1.cfg and openttd_UKRS.cfg ?
18:21:40  <Sacro> peter1138: man diff
18:21:50  <NGC3982> peter1138: I wanted to reinstall the game, so i could make sure the problem was not on my side.
18:22:05  <NGC3982> The UKRS config contains two NewGRF files, and Advertise1 contains a 20-ish.
18:22:06  <Sacro> rm -r ~/.openttd
18:22:18  <NGC3982> Both files are tested in a Windows system, and seems to work there.
18:23:57  <NGC3982> The NewGRF's are the only thing that separate the contents of both files.
18:24:37  <peter1138> "openttd_UKRS.cfg" does now look exactly like "openttd_advertise1.cfg". It has during the server start/stop been overwritten with the old file.
18:24:42  <peter1138> that cannot happen
18:25:11  <peter1138> there game will not have magically loaded a different config file
18:25:19  <peter1138> and then saved it over the one specified
18:25:28  <NGC3982> Well, it does. I have re-tried this five times, and i will now do it again.
18:26:00  <NGC3982> I'm sure -i- am the problem. It's not like i'm saying OpenTTD is magic.
18:26:15  <NGC3982> But i can't get past it, even when i closely follow my own actions.
18:29:50  <NGC3982> I now tried with two files: openttd.cfg (default) and openttd2.cfg. The only difference was the starting_year. That worked.
18:45:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24953 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/tamil.txt (2013-02-01 18:45:10 UTC)
18:45:18  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:19  <DorpsGek> tamil - 94 changes by aswn
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18:46:07  <NGC3982> peter1138: Reinstalling OpenTTD makes me unable to re-make the file-writer-issue.
18:46:15  <NGC3982> It does seem to work as it should.
18:46:25  <peter1138> no, it just means you did something wrong before
18:46:37  <peter1138> reinstalling openttd installs it exactly as it was installed before
18:46:38  <NGC3982> Yes, i guess so.
18:46:46  <peter1138> users cannot modify those files
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19:03:07  <NGC3982> Where can i check the status for the Master Server?
19:03:20  <NGC3982> I guess there is none, since i never heard of any problems with it :)
19:04:45  <Alberth> moin andy
19:05:48  <andythenorth> bonsoir
19:08:27  <Supercheese> Andy, any reason the Iron Works was excluded from Temperate Basic? Iron Ore and Wood are both defined in basic...
19:16:24  <andythenorth> Supercheese: because it's Basic?
19:16:50  <Supercheese> Well, true enough
19:17:15  <Supercheese> I liked the Iron Works --> Steel Mill transition as the years progressed
19:17:36  <andythenorth> there might be a case for it, as there is no metal chain before a certain date
19:17:45  <andythenorth> but then again, the Iron Works is nearly pointless imho
19:18:03  <Supercheese> It has pretty graphics :P
19:18:10  <andythenorth> that's why it's included
19:18:23  <andythenorth> I like the iron pigs flowing and cooling
19:18:28  <Supercheese> aye :)
19:18:29  <andythenorth> and I like Dan's building
19:18:37  <andythenorth> hmm
19:18:46  <andythenorth> the v2.0 thread is a gift that keeps on giving
19:18:48  <andythenorth> "as well as features from TTDP (might as well bring everyone to work on one game)"
19:18:55  <andythenorth> so we'd gain....0 developers?
19:18:56  <Supercheese> Everyone *is* working on one game
19:19:03  <Supercheese> Nobody's TTDPing
19:19:25  <andythenorth> because th CF is broken
19:19:33  <andythenorth> my typing is broken
19:19:42  <andythenorth> I have like 20% accuraacy
19:20:26  <Supercheese> Sometimes it feels like the English language itself has less than 20% accuracy, when following its own "rules" anyway
19:20:57  <Supercheese> i before e, except 50% of the time when it isn't
19:23:10  <andythenorth> MP GS?
19:23:14  <andythenorth> frosch123? ^
19:23:18  <andythenorth> NoCarGoal?
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19:25:14  <frosch123> andythenorth: if you prepare the game :p
19:25:23  <andythenorth> ugh
19:25:25  <Wolf01> hello
19:25:26  <andythenorth> then it's my fault :P
19:25:46  <andythenorth> have we got a nightly serverer?
19:25:53  <andythenorth> peter1138 ^ ?
19:26:15  <frosch123> r24876 is running
19:26:22  <frosch123> no idea what's the state of the game there
19:26:24  <andythenorth> k I'll make it with that
19:26:51  <frosch123> wow, that revision is one month old
19:26:56  <andythenorth> Alberth planetmaker Hirundo Terkhen et al playing?
19:27:04  <frosch123> maybe we can recruit planetmaker :)
19:27:33  <peter1138> hmm
19:27:36  <peter1138> sorry busy coding
19:27:47  <Terkhen> sorry, we are going to have a small celebration soon :P
19:28:13  <andythenorth> if I use UKRS2 will I be moaned at?
19:28:30  <andythenorth> ach, my game, my rules :P
19:28:43  * Terkhen suggests that everyone complains about the NewGRF selection no matter what it is
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19:31:14  <Alberth> andythenorth: +1
19:31:23  <andythenorth> how many playing?  Affects the goal :P
19:31:29  <andythenorth> frosch123: got a record of previous goals?
19:31:34  <frosch123> andythenorth: "+1" wrt the complaining? :p
19:31:46  <andythenorth> yeah, figures
19:31:52  <frosch123>
19:31:55  <andythenorth> 7 years, NoCarGoal
19:32:02  <andythenorth> no Zuu?
19:32:03  <andythenorth> meh
19:32:28  <Alberth> +1 for playing actually, but you're free to interpret it orherwise ;)
19:32:33  <NGC3982> I guess the solution to "i want to host more servers on one computer" is simply using a new port per server?
19:32:50  <frosch123> yes
19:32:58  * NGC3982 tries.
19:33:00  <frosch123> but why do you want to host multiple servers?
19:33:11  <frosch123> it's not like there are too few
19:33:22  <frosch123> and everyone runs one for himself anyway
19:33:34  <frosch123> or do you want to play on multiple servers in parallel yourself? :)
19:33:49  <Alberth> he's cold, and needs some work for all those idle CPUs :)
19:34:08  <NGC3982> frosch123: Both!
19:35:08  <NGC3982> It's not that i have something else to do.
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19:46:30  <NGC3982> Aaaand it worked.
19:47:08  <NGC3982> peter1138: I will have to excuse myself. Linux has always been a nail in the eye for me, and i always have a hard time orienting myself within it.
19:47:16  <NGC3982> Your patience has been greatly appreciated.
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