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00:00:53 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/content2.png <- Zuu: tags are not as useful as i hoped for 00:01:42 <frosch123> i hoped to display the tags in a list, and then clicking on them would add/remove them from the filter 00:01:49 <frosch123> but, the tags are mostly useless 00:02:33 * Supercheese doesn't know what to do with tags 00:02:42 <Supercheese> There are no guidelines 00:02:44 <Zuu> They are quite useless indeed. Though a click thingy will at least not use any screen space. 00:03:18 * Zuu wrote a guideline for AIs 00:03:19 <frosch123> anyway, somewhat related... i am pondering to change the order gui 00:03:23 <frosch123> to use icons instead of text 00:03:25 <Zuu> It actually worked for quite some time. 00:03:38 <frosch123> icons can be aligned in columns, so you can click on them to switch full load 00:03:45 <frosch123> refit, stop location 00:03:49 <frosch123> or in the future: reversing 00:04:10 <Zuu> Noone did the same for the much larger NewGRF scene which from the beginning was harder to get a common standard. No doubt it is a mess with NewGRF tags. 00:04:16 <frosch123> but the different order types (station/depot/conditional) would break the columns :s 00:04:36 <frosch123> Zuu: for newgrfs we just search the whole description :) 00:05:44 <Eddi|zuHause> bananas needs a tag cloud!! 00:06:05 <planetmaker> good idea frosch123 00:06:09 <Zuu> Which have heightmap and 2048 written out in large size :-) 00:06:38 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the order gui needs some total restructuring 00:07:06 <frosch123> yup, the last one is only 4 years ago :p 00:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause> (and you're going to kill me if i come with shunting at this point :p) 00:07:19 <frosch123> or "already" :p 00:07:26 <Zuu> IIRC someone posted a icon proposal for the order GUI which was quite nice. 00:08:31 <frosch123> i cannot remember any order related patch 00:08:39 <Zuu> Now that we have non-hidden tooltips it may even be discoverable for new players. 00:08:40 <frosch123> except for the refit-gui thingie 00:08:49 <frosch123> or was it about selective loading? 00:08:55 <frosch123> something with a big cargo list in the order 00:09:19 <Zuu> It was probably only a graphical mockup. 00:09:47 <Zuu> With icons for things like "stop near/middle/far" instead of using text for that. 00:10:05 <Zuu> It was IIRC quite still the same GUI but with less text and icons instead. 00:10:07 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=703324#p703324 <- that one 00:10:11 <frosch123> looks quite messy 00:11:03 <Zuu> Thats not the one I have in my mind. (but my memory could be wrong too) 00:11:05 <frosch123> hmm... what does the "ignore signals" button mean? 00:11:38 <Zuu> All trains on that order will ignore signals until you toggle that button again? 00:12:01 <frosch123> i believe it is the normal button from the vehicle gui, but moved to the order gui 00:12:23 <Zuu> yeah, where it only make sense for non-shared orders. 00:12:34 <frosch123> it's about moving "skip order", "goto depot" and "ignore signals" into one place 00:12:45 <frosch123> but i don't quite agree with that reasoning :) 00:13:55 <Zuu> Hmm, oh yes. With shared orders, the order window both show shared state but also vehicle specific state (current order). 00:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> "all trains ignore signals" sounds like a not very bright idea ;p 00:14:25 <planetmaker> on the contrary. very bright. fireball 00:14:35 <Zuu> Maybe have a order-viewer show up that is vehicle specific. Then form that you open a order editor that doesn't contain any vehicle specific buttons or data. 00:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i think that "orders" need to be separated into "go to X" and "do Y when you get there" 00:14:44 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31074 <- Zuu: i hope you do not mean that topic 00:15:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and secondly, "orders" should be composed of "routes" 00:15:11 <frosch123> i remember argueing about the completly non-comprehsensive icons back then 00:16:01 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i think i made fun of suborders in .dev recently 00:16:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. i set up once "from A to B you go via X,Y and Z (with timetable)", and then i give trains orders "go from A to B via route XYZ, and then to C via blah" 00:16:21 <Supercheese> r10783, wow 00:16:23 <Supercheese> forever ago 00:16:37 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd.dev&date=1360540800#1360616982 00:16:39 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: have you checked out the Timetable Improvement Patch? 00:16:50 <frosch123> 21:03:23 00:17:08 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: which one is that? 00:17:09 <Zuu> frosch123: not that topic 00:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the TIP one, fairly recently 00:17:22 <frosch123> there are many timetable patches 00:17:31 <frosch123> is it about separation? 00:17:36 <Eddi|zuHause> no 00:17:40 <frosch123> or about the exact schedule times with 24 hour clock? 00:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it's about routes 00:17:51 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@659AAAONK.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't have 24h clock afair. that was ITiM 00:18:54 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=30970 <- another window 00:18:59 <frosch123> also not what i have in mind 00:19:15 <frosch123> i don't want a toolbar, i want info icons in the order rows 00:20:14 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=626517#p626517 <- lol, we should add gui skind to ottd :) 00:20:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean concept-wise, you'd have to have an idea what orders should look like, and then think about how to efficiently represent them. not the other way around 00:21:58 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: ah, i remember skipping that post 00:22:17 <frosch123> too long for someone not interested in timetables :) 00:22:33 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=63721 00:22:46 <frosch123> i am looking at the screenshot 00:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i've not had a chance to test it 00:23:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but the idea sounded interesting 00:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and timetables are in desperate need of macromanaging functions 00:23:38 <Zuu> I found a thread for implementing routes from 2008, but now I don't find it again. :-) 00:24:01 <frosch123> anyway, essentially we have routes 00:24:06 <frosch123> we just do not have the gui for it 00:25:53 <Eddi|zuHause> a macromanaging function i would use could be "from A to B via X,Y,Z, send a train every 10 days for 30 days, then no train for 30 dais, repeat" 00:26:29 *** chester_ [~chester@95-27-115-241.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:26:42 <oskari892> Eddi: Sounds nice 00:26:52 <Zuu> Ah.. here we have it (resqued from browser history): http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=590557#p590557 00:27:15 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:27:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and interleave this with "from A to B via (express), send no train for 50 days, send one train, send no train for 10 days, repeat" 00:27:24 <Zuu> (not the order GUI, but the routes thingy which is probably not really routes) 00:28:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: that is rather about group management, isn't it? 00:28:36 <planetmaker> good night 00:28:42 <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: yes 00:29:06 <Zuu> they have some order connection, but it is probably more grouping than routes. 00:30:58 <frosch123> Zuu: you restored a post from 2007 from browser history? :p 00:31:23 <chillcore> good night planetmaker and everybody else. 00:31:41 *** chillcore [589343ca@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 00:32:00 <frosch123> Zuu: anyway, i did not find anything like a renewed orders gui 00:32:05 <Zuu> Anyhow, the routes discussion remind me about my idea to have partial orders. Eg. each waypoint have a list of orders. Then when you tell a vehicle order to visit this waypoint, it will add an item in the order list that points to the waypoint and will insert a shared copy of that partial order list into the vehicle orders. 00:32:36 <Zuu> frosch123: I tried to search for what I was thinking about, but couldn't find it. It was probably just a lose suggestion somewhere. 00:32:48 *** oftcrash [~KrisKnowl@pool-96-233-137-78.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:33:25 <Zuu> That post form my browser history was a post that I saw today when looking for the post that I was thinking about. 00:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause> so you randomly browse threads from 5 years ago? :) 00:34:15 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:34:25 <frosch123> the search results do not display the date 00:35:53 <frosch123> he... prissi started two topics about gui consistency 00:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> question asked in a bavarian beer tent: "would it, in retrospect, have been better to have given berlin to the russians?" - "no, i love the russians too much to burden them with that" :p 00:44:11 <frosch123> hmm, the simutrans forums have really complicated member titles 00:44:22 <frosch123> "Simitrans-Experimental project coordinator" 00:49:36 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-5d85a149.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 00:49:40 <frosch123> night 00:49:44 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d008d77.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:28 <oskari892> Eddi: So do you have shunting system in planning or... ? ^ 00:52:10 <oskari892> Regarding that GUI discussion up there :) 00:54:03 <Eddi|zuHause> oskari892: i have plans for lots of things, but people keep telling me "that's too complicated, nobody will/can code that" 00:54:53 <oskari892> Those people have wrong attitude 00:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that may also be related to me thinking 3 steps further ahead than they do, and then i have problems explaining my thoughts to them :p 00:56:35 *** Celestar_ [~vici@mnch-4d04f400.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:57:09 <oskari892> Somebody already did shunting btw... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=43972 00:57:24 <oskari892> Don't know if that is proper 00:57:45 <Eddi|zuHause> but afair he did not publish a patch 00:58:00 <oskari892> True... 00:59:48 <oskari892> It's sad that there's people who vanish from forums totally for years 01:01:30 <oskari892> Such as one who did code Finnish Trainset, not releasing a NewGrf, just providing screenshots, but disappeared and now there's a year gone without single post from him... 01:01:35 <oskari892> as 01:02:05 <oskari892> I wonder where he had gone? :P 01:04:32 <oskari892> The same person which did Swedish Houses 01:13:44 *** Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@0001b11e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:16:21 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:36:04 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-245-068.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:41:31 *** Superuser [~root@host81-129-131-143.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:41:31 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:43 <Superuser> hey guys 01:41:46 <Superuser> so I've been thinking 01:41:50 <Superuser> since I'm so amazing at what I do 01:42:10 <Superuser> I think I should get a mention for my efforts in the next blog post 01:42:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:42:25 <Superuser> for the 1.31 release that is 01:42:45 <Superuser> what do you think? I have literally changed about 2000 strings, I basically translated the whole thing by myself 01:42:56 <Superuser> + I have corrected several of the original English strings 01:43:09 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.2/20130201065344]] 01:47:16 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 02:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly is it that you do again? 02:09:30 <Superuser> translated to Greek 02:09:34 <Superuser> but it was an intense effort 02:09:52 <Superuser> plus, I helped improve all other translations by improving the English strings 02:10:08 <Superuser> I actually have a few more changes to English strings I want to discuss, but I'm playing atm :) 02:27:46 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:44:01 *** Netsplit larich.oftc.net <-> synthon.oftc.net quits: Sacro, Mek, Pixa, @DorpsGek, Fuco, pauska, szaman, Vadtec, CornishPasty, Wing_, (+97 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 02:46:55 *** Netsplit over, joins: Born_Acorn, TheMask96, DDR, FLHerne, zeknurn, Pikka, +tokai|noir, +glx, Bad_Brett, goodger (+94 more) 02:47:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ 02:50:58 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-68-17.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:29:30 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 03:31:54 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 03:37:05 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:42:52 *** DDR [~chatzilla@S01060011096484ff.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 03:52:39 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 04:12:56 *** kormer [~kormer@c-68-55-166-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: irc2go] 04:32:07 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-4d08f8ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 04:39:25 *** Biolunar__ [mahdi@blfd-4db1370b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:45:59 *** lobster [~lobster@glosoli.owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 05:09:31 *** DDR [~chatzilla@S01060011096484ff.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:53:14 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 06:30:36 <Supercheese> 3-day weekend, time for lots and lots of OTTD :D 06:46:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66E31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 06:46:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD48AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:51:01 *** Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@0001b11e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Wuzzy] 07:00:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:00:32 <andythenorth> is it though? 07:02:24 <Pikka> only on wednesdays 07:02:48 <Pikka> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5473 wot larks 07:04:11 <Supercheese> +1 07:04:24 <Supercheese> I've tried to wrangle running sounds before 07:04:37 <Supercheese> isn't the easiest thing to do 07:14:03 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-68-17.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 07:15:34 <andythenorth> ok minds, ship speed: 07:16:02 <Supercheese> which? 07:16:07 <andythenorth> so RL ferries and fishing boats and crap do about 11 knots (13mph) 07:16:19 <andythenorth> which I cheat up to about 16mph 07:16:48 <andythenorth> but I don't cheat up the faster ships 07:17:07 <andythenorth> so RL hovercraft can cruise at 46mph, and so does the FISH one 07:17:23 <andythenorth> shall I just cheat them all up same amount? 07:17:36 <Supercheese> just have the hovercraft go faster than 46 mph when empty 07:17:39 <Supercheese> 46 when loaded 07:17:42 <Supercheese> like some other FISH ships 07:18:02 <Supercheese> Keep RL-speeds the loaded-speeds-ish 07:18:03 <andythenorth> oh it probably does that already anyway 07:18:12 <Supercheese> and bump them up higher than RL when empty 07:18:18 <Supercheese> oh, already does that? 07:18:18 <Pikka> hovercrafts are silly 07:18:21 <Supercheese> s'all good then 07:18:25 <andythenorth> yeah, they do that automagically I think 07:18:28 <andythenorth> owing to some code I wrote 07:18:38 <andythenorth> in Squid anyway 07:18:47 <andythenorth> pikkacrafts would be silly 07:18:54 <andythenorth> hovercheese too 07:19:06 <Supercheese> Cheeseships 07:19:14 <Pikka> yes 07:19:15 <Pikka> well 07:19:15 <Supercheese> mmmm 07:19:16 <andythenorth> Pikka: there is only one, and it's only a very little one. Just a morsel. 07:19:22 <andythenorth> can't you overlook it? :( 07:19:29 <Pikka> that freight one 07:19:32 <Pikka> I guess it is not so bad 07:19:43 <Pikka> 900mph 07:19:46 <Supercheese> other fast ships are catamarans or hydrofoils 07:19:54 <Supercheese> well, other than the silly Bakewell 300 07:20:24 <andythenorth> Pikka: on MP servers, it's certainly nice to see everyone go fishing with a hovercraft 07:20:31 <Pikka> mmm 07:20:32 <Pikka> fishing 07:20:34 <andythenorth> hovertrawler 07:20:46 <Supercheese> go fishing with seaplanes 07:20:51 <Supercheese> flying FISH 07:20:53 <andythenorth> zellepins 07:21:03 <andythenorth> zelletrawler 07:21:09 <Supercheese> our US Zeppelins had nasty habits of going fishing 07:21:15 <Supercheese> happened twice 07:21:18 <andythenorth> should we just stop? 07:21:20 <andythenorth> all this? 07:21:30 <andythenorth> and join V453000 with the NUTS thing? 07:21:34 <Supercheese> poor Admiral Moffet didn't survive the fishing trip :( 07:24:37 <Pikka> almost certainly 07:25:30 <Pikka> actually, you can go fishing with a zellepin, can't you? 07:25:41 <Pikka> with the skylift at least 07:27:49 <andythenorth> floating crane 07:27:53 <andythenorth> .2m 07:28:02 <andythenorth> could go fishing with that 07:28:06 * andythenorth is on a ship broker site 07:28:51 <Pikka> cheap at half the price 07:30:43 <andythenorth> for less than m we can get 268' cargo ship 07:30:49 <andythenorth> ice capable 07:30:53 <andythenorth> http://commercial.apolloduck.com/advert.phtml?id=290445 07:31:04 <andythenorth> we could spend the earnings from newgrf on that? 07:32:15 <andythenorth> ho here's one of the small coasters from FISH http://commercial.apolloduck.com/image.phtml?id=289085&image=1 07:32:17 <andythenorth> which I made up 07:32:23 <andythenorth> nice to find the photo later 07:37:52 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has left #openttd [] 07:37:57 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 07:47:19 <Pikka> eesh 07:47:25 <andythenorth> ? 07:47:36 <Pikka> a 31-year-old 268' cargo ship :) 07:49:41 <andythenorth> younger than me 07:49:54 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 07:50:29 <Pikka> same age as me 07:50:35 <andythenorth> shall I just multiply all RL speeds by 1.5 then? 07:50:45 <andythenorth> and be done with it? 07:50:59 <Pikka> I still think you should have a parameter 07:51:04 <Pikka> maybe make 1.5 the default 07:51:09 <Pikka> with 1 and 2 as options 07:51:35 <andythenorth> 1 is masochistic :P 07:53:02 <Pikka> http://commercial.apolloduck.com/image.phtml?id=274229&image=1 this one's in queensland 07:53:22 <Pikka> apparently it is the "Largest small cruise Cat built in last 10 years" 07:53:37 <Pikka> I guess the next model up is the "smallest large cruise cat" 07:55:46 <andythenorth> yes 07:56:45 <andythenorth> hmm 07:56:48 <andythenorth> parameter then 07:58:34 <Pikka> :] 07:58:48 <Pikka> and then adjust running costs accordingly, if you can be bothered ;) 07:59:35 <andythenorth> let's see 08:06:27 <andythenorth> how does that action 14 thing work :P 08:15:02 <andythenorth> yeah that will all be fine 08:15:09 <andythenorth> I'll have to just write some nml :P 08:16:08 <peter1138> aw, krinn was update that i moderizzled his post 08:23:59 <andythenorth> for shame 08:25:04 <andythenorth> hmm 08:25:11 <andythenorth> should I invest? o_O http://www.train-fever.com 08:25:33 <andythenorth> it's not pixels 08:27:49 <peter1138> looked a bit small in the video i saw 08:36:09 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:40:09 *** lugo [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has quit [Quit: I'm using a Free IRC Bouncer from BNC4FREE - http://bnc4free.com/] 08:53:26 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-102-108.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 08:57:34 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:58:08 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:59:44 *** lugo [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has joined #openttd 09:06:41 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:06:44 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:09:37 <Alberth> moin 09:12:03 <Pikka> hello Alberth 09:15:10 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-080-148.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:17:25 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 09:21:23 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:31 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 09:27:31 <planetmaker> moin 09:28:46 <andythenorth> 0/ 09:28:48 <Alberth> o/ 09:29:22 <andythenorth> action 14, how I love thy caching 09:31:30 * Alberth ponders about how to fix the custom_tags file for translating 09:31:45 * andythenorth ponders removing 'speed factor: 0' 09:31:57 <andythenorth> 0 is not a useful multiplier for gameplay purposes :P 09:32:06 <Alberth> not very much indeed :) 09:32:29 <Alberth> rename to 'speed index' :D 09:32:58 <andythenorth> that's actually the right thing to do 09:33:32 <Alberth> what's the purpose of custom_tags in the first place? doesn't it belong in lang/* files? 09:34:14 <planetmaker> Alberth, e.g. you can define {GRF_NAME} My fancy name and then use {GRF_NAME} in strings 09:35:01 <Alberth> yeah, but why not in a lang file? 09:35:18 <planetmaker> universal for all languages? 09:36:07 <Alberth> lang/english.lng:5:STR_GRF_NAME :IRC Log Viewer <-- like so? 09:36:08 <andythenorth> oh 09:36:21 <andythenorth> so that's the intended solution to 'not all strings should be translated'? o_O 09:36:24 <planetmaker> as it's treated different from a general string, universal for all files, syntactically like a tag. Like you show, yes 09:36:50 <planetmaker> Alberth, I use it e.g. for version display 09:36:51 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-68-17.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 09:36:54 <planetmaker> {VERSION} 09:37:09 <Alberth> I mean why not lang/english.lng:5:STR_GRF_NAME : My fancy name 09:37:27 <planetmaker> and then the GRF_NAME reads like STR_GRF_NAME: IRC Log Viewer {VERSION} (translated title, if any) 09:37:55 <planetmaker> I can programmatically write {VERSION} as function of hg output w/o touching lang file 09:38:48 <Alberth> it's messy, imho 09:39:17 <Alberth> add one more tag in custom_tags, and you have the problem of modifying that file as well 09:39:30 <planetmaker> how do you get the repo version in a lang file? 09:39:47 <Alberth> imho you don't 09:39:52 <planetmaker> I write custom_tags anew everytime. I only put version, untranslatable name there 09:40:03 <Alberth> (assuming you don't means # $Id$ :) 09:40:03 <planetmaker> exactly. But how get that in the title then? 09:40:18 <planetmaker> I mean my version like r245 or 0.5.2 09:40:31 <Alberth> imho a string literal in the program 09:40:35 <planetmaker> that's nothing a translator can do 09:40:48 <Alberth> r245 needs translating? 09:40:56 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host13-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:40:57 <planetmaker> no, of course not 09:41:02 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 09:41:10 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.2/20130201065344]] 09:41:17 <Wolf01> hello :D 09:41:25 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 09:41:36 <Alberth> in that case you've lost me now 09:42:09 <planetmaker> A translator cannot / shall not mess with version strings. That changes much more often than strings 09:42:10 <Alberth> I'd think you should be able to write "this is blah blah blah version xyz" as literal in the program 09:42:22 <planetmaker> so I define that whereever a translator has no say 09:42:34 <Alberth> or in CPP speak "...." ## VERSION 09:42:42 <planetmaker> I write STR_GRF_NAME: Title blah {VERSION} 09:42:57 <planetmaker> not sure I can define mixed fixed strings and translated ones 09:43:03 <Alberth> not as string literal in a *.nml file? 09:43:15 <planetmaker> custom_tags is the literal strings for translations which you ask for 09:43:49 <planetmaker> i.e. if you need a literal string in other strings: then custom_tags is for you 09:44:20 <Alberth> a string literal is for me a double quote character, zero or more other stuff, and a closing double quote character 09:44:51 <andythenorth> right 09:44:55 <andythenorth> speed parameter works for ships 09:45:06 <andythenorth> better put some strings in for it :P 09:46:54 <planetmaker> Alberth, from a translation POV custom_tags is not translatable 09:47:32 <Alberth> but I need its tags, or I'll throw X:{BLA} out the window for unknown tags 09:48:07 <Alberth> but every project has its own tags, and they change overt time :( :( 09:48:53 <planetmaker> yes, that's true... you won't even find that file in any of my repos 09:49:30 <Alberth> luckily, I don't care what's in your repo :) 09:49:41 <planetmaker> well. But what's in the custom_tags? 09:50:33 <planetmaker> the idea behind it was indeed for a string like {VERSION} or whatever the author needs to be easily used in strings 09:51:47 <Alberth> I can see two options: 09:51:47 <Alberth> a) I allow any {XYZ} without bothering to check it, which basically means translators can add any crap, and it will all drop into your repo 09:51:47 <Alberth> b) I only allow tags I know, which means I need a list of them. How you get that list is up to the author of the project, imho 09:53:06 <planetmaker> option (a) sounds very unappealing 09:53:26 <Alberth> it is, imho, for proof, see the mess of WT3 09:53:27 <planetmaker> option (b) needs some interface definition 09:53:36 <planetmaker> WT3 allows any? 09:53:47 <Alberth> no, but it has holes 09:54:10 <Alberth> eg {G ..} indexes are not checked iirc 09:54:22 <planetmaker> oi. not too nice :-) 09:55:23 <Alberth> just look up the fixes made by rb and frsh mostly :) 09:57:28 <Alberth> b) has the huge problem that if you change the list (in particular delete some item), all translations become invalid for every use of that removed tag 09:57:55 <andythenorth> Pikka innit https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3803/ship_speed_parameter.png 09:58:08 <planetmaker> of course. But that's the problem of the dev. If we change a string it also becomes invalid in all translations 09:58:14 <Pikka> fancy 09:58:21 *** joey8 [~JoeEvans@host86-172-144-71.range86-172.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:59:01 <andythenorth> 66% 100% 133% 09:59:11 <Pikka> nice 09:59:24 <Alberth> good to know the speed of drying paint :) 09:59:25 <joey8> has anyone got time to help a non techie try to install 1.3 over the top of 1.1 on ubuntu please. thank you 09:59:44 <Alberth> don't try to install stuff on top of other stuff 09:59:57 <joey8> oh ok - shall i uninstall 1.1 first? 10:00:41 <Alberth> 1.1 comes from the package manager? 10:00:46 <joey8> yes 10:01:08 <Alberth> if so, then likely it also has the openttd data part attached to it, which you need again for 1.3 10:01:32 <Alberth> the package manager does not have 1.3 yet, I guess 10:01:44 <Alberth> so you need to do a manual install of the latter 10:01:58 <joey8> no it doesnt and to a complete klutz (me) i am having difficulties 10:01:59 <Alberth> imho the best solution is to install 1.3 next to 1.1 10:02:39 <joey8> oh ok 10:03:01 <Alberth> planetmaker: unfortunately that breaks my concept of translation; I had it dependant on the base language string, but now it depends on 1 file, and 1 string 10:03:32 <Alberth> joey8: the simplest way is to download the generic linux binary 10:03:54 <Alberth> hmm, perhaps there are also packages for your linux version, you should have a look 10:04:04 <planetmaker> Alberth, you could - for that purpose - likely consider custom_tags.txt part of the base language. A part which is untranslatable 10:04:29 <joey8> Alberth➀ ok i will look thank you for your help 10:04:30 <Alberth> planetmaker: yes, but is a *file*, not one string 10:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <Alberth> a string literal is for me a double quote character, zero or more other stuff, and a closing double quote character <-- afair those were deliberately not allowed to force people to use the string/lang-file system right from the start 10:05:15 <Alberth> ie you can do {X} {Y} 10:05:52 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: oh? grfid : "AB"; :) 10:06:05 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 10:06:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, because that's not an actual string :) 10:07:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean in places that require a (displayable) string, those are not allowed 10:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause> not that the language doesn't have them 10:07:33 <andythenorth> I need a string to describe what ship speed param does 10:07:38 <andythenorth> cba to think 10:07:52 <planetmaker> This string allows to put your ships on steroids 10:08:00 <planetmaker> s/string/parameter/g 10:08:05 <andythenorth> or I could just leave it blank, as it's obvious 10:08:09 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: in general that does make sense, ie the unicode stuff is too complicated for many 10:10:02 <Alberth> andythenorth: "rate at which the ships splits water molecules from each other to make room for itself" 10:10:17 <andythenorth> :) 10:10:31 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [] 10:10:42 <planetmaker> if they start splitting the molecules... wooo! 10:11:03 <Alberth> then it'd run on steroids :) 10:11:10 <planetmaker> :D 10:11:25 <planetmaker> hydro-molecular propulsion :-) 10:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> just apply an electrical charge :) 10:11:30 <planetmaker> sounds like future-tech :-) 10:11:39 <planetmaker> ^^ andy 10:11:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andy doesn't do futures :p 10:11:55 <planetmaker> finally some future ships :D 10:12:14 <Alberth> in the future we'll live under water :) 10:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> when you are dutch, that is certainly a possibility :p 10:14:52 <Terkhen> good morning 10:14:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I do historical future 10:15:03 <andythenorth> which is why everyone has hovercraft 10:15:10 <planetmaker> hello Terkhen 10:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause> so then why don't you have ekranoplans :) 10:16:23 <andythenorth> well 10:16:26 <andythenorth> they're insane 10:16:27 <andythenorth> is one 10:17:11 <andythenorth> I should add these 10:17:12 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zubr_class_LCAC 10:17:17 <andythenorth> 150t, 63 knots 10:17:26 <andythenorth> ~72 mph 10:17:42 <planetmaker> knots is also mph. just other miles ;-) 10:18:30 <Supercheese> "55 knots if sustained" 10:18:43 <andythenorth> Supercheese: never pay attention to sustained ratings 10:18:52 <andythenorth> that is not good for gameplay :P 10:19:02 <andythenorth> it is an enemy of MOAR 10:19:09 <Alberth> andy needs 'cheat' settings :) 10:19:18 <Supercheese> He just did, with the parameter 10:19:58 <Alberth> yeah, but 133% does not give him a concrete speed :p 10:20:13 <Pikka> woo, travelling at the speed of concrete! 10:20:29 <Alberth> :D 10:20:48 <Alberth> hmm, 'actual' is better? 10:21:12 <Pikka> concrete is fine, I suppose! 10:22:08 <andythenorth> you can make concrete boats 10:22:18 <andythenorth> I once had a university lecturer who did that 10:22:20 <andythenorth> then I quit 10:22:25 <andythenorth> concrete is not exciting 10:22:27 <Pikka> because of? 10:22:32 <Pikka> isn't it? 10:22:43 <andythenorth> it has exciting uses 10:22:43 <Pikka> what would you rather make boats out of? 10:22:49 <andythenorth> and it's exciting if you fall in it 10:24:05 <Supercheese> Good lord, 1024x1024 maps are enormous 10:24:25 *** joey8 [~JoeEvans@host86-172-144-71.range86-172.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:25:04 <Pikka> 37s aren't as sexy as F units 10:25:05 <Pikka> how sad 10:33:07 <Supercheese> 'night 10:33:11 <Supercheese> valete omnes 10:33:14 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.2/20130201065344]] 10:35:43 <Pikka> does she? 10:39:09 <peter1138> yes 10:39:22 <Pikka> how rare 10:48:34 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:55:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B20D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:56:59 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:09:19 <andythenorth> Pikka: cut a 37 in half, and make b units too 11:09:23 <andythenorth> then it's about the same 11:09:32 <andythenorth> more fake things 11:09:43 <Pikka> well 11:09:50 <Pikka> it's smaller, so it's harder to draw nice 11:10:31 <Pikka> and all-over blue with yellow noses looks a bit ordinary 11:11:16 <andythenorth> do the police one 11:11:52 <Pikka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tHnDlMC6KI 11:12:10 <andythenorth> musical theatre 11:12:42 <Pikka> savoy opera 11:15:40 <andythenorth> http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2013/01/ice-and-snow-vehicles-retro-showcase.html 11:17:21 <andythenorth> DarkRoastedBlend.grf 11:17:29 <Alberth> shopping for a new car to drive to work andy ? 11:17:55 <andythenorth> http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2007/01/category-trains.html 11:23:33 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 11:31:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so you want futurism? http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2007/12/category-futurism.html 11:32:17 <jonty-comp> i always wanted to make some sort of steampunk/retro-futurist set for ttd 11:33:27 <Pikka> "This American concept shows the ultimate helicopter: 11:33:28 <Pikka> (at least the largest we've seen drawn on paper)" 11:33:51 <Pikka> whoever wrote that obviously has no idea how big real helicopters get, the drawing is of something chinook sized :) 11:33:54 <Flygon> jonty-comp: Sky Captain and the World of Transport Tycooning 11:34:01 <jonty-comp> something like that :D 11:34:09 <jonty-comp> although god what a terrible film that was 11:37:14 <Flygon> Aw 11:37:16 <Flygon> I loved that world 11:39:12 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 11:42:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i ever watched that 11:56:31 <andythenorth> zellepins! http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008/03/airship-dreams.html 11:59:56 <Flygon> Er, movie, not world 11:59:57 <Flygon> Derp 12:00:03 <Flygon> Eddi: It's... interesting 12:00:04 <Flygon> Unusual 12:00:10 <Flygon> It works for some people, but not for others 12:00:34 <Flygon> It's a homage to basically every single... ... thing, pre-1950 12:00:47 <Flygon> Prodominantly among the style of Dieselpunk 12:02:30 <andythenorth> zellepins 12:02:31 <andythenorth> everywhere 12:02:35 <andythenorth> zellepin trucks 12:02:39 <andythenorth> zellepin ships 12:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: only that the Zeppelin NT is already dead 12:03:18 <andythenorth> apparently :( 12:03:36 <andythenorth> US military Skylifter is not though 12:03:38 <andythenorth> apparently 12:04:20 <andythenorth> http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/8/3227818/us-army-lemv-airship-first-flight 12:04:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess the company was totally bloated and just imploded before they could get a working prototype out 12:04:38 <jonty-comp> i wonder if someone has made a V-22 Osprey for TTD 12:04:53 <Flygon> Zeppelin NT lacked much practical purpose, unfortunately 12:05:01 <jonty-comp> if not, then i have found what to do with my morning 12:05:08 <andythenorth> oh 12:05:14 <andythenorth> they just cancelled the LEMV 12:05:17 <andythenorth> 2 days ago 12:05:40 <jonty-comp> aww 12:05:44 <__ln__> andythenorth: i took this photo some years ago: http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/kuvat/tmp/view_from_frontdoor.jpg 12:05:47 <jonty-comp> but it looked like a bottom :( 12:07:54 <peter1138> hmm, simuscape unreachable? 12:08:31 <Flygon> I'm astounded they didn't sell off the design to private investors, if they canned it 12:08:49 <Flygon> A private company could have interesting things to do with a supermassive Airship 12:08:52 <Flygon> Specifically: Tourism 12:09:13 <Flygon> Want to go on a trip around the world... vertically? 12:09:33 <Eddi|zuHause> "cruse flight tour: 2 weeks across the USA"? 12:10:03 <jonty-comp> peter1138: inb4 ddos 12:10:06 <NGC3982> It's a blimp! 12:11:36 <andythenorth> peter1138: seems to be :( 12:13:48 <Flygon> Also 12:13:52 <Flygon> I foresee freight being a good use 12:14:10 <Flygon> Also, and this is the same for any Airship 12:14:14 <Flygon> Safe transportation for oil rigs 12:15:34 <Pikka> jonty-comp, you can probably delete that thread now :) 12:17:01 <andythenorth> it's done 12:17:59 <Flygon> Eddi: I'd rather a cruise flight from New York to Tokyo 12:19:19 <Flygon> See the sights of the United Kingdom, to Europe (eg. France, Germany, Switzerland), have Americans crapping their dacks over the Middle East, cruise over India, ...yadayada, something about too much bloody smog in China, and finally land in the technological paradise of Tokyo 12:19:29 <Flygon> Travel 50km out, and experience the wonders of Japanese Fax Machines 12:20:54 <Flygon> Going from New York to Tokyo via Seattle would present you the wonders of trees 12:21:01 <Flygon> Lots. And lots. And lots. Of Trees. 12:23:05 <Eddi|zuHause> or via sibiria? 12:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause> avoids the whole middle east thingie :p 12:24:04 <Flygon> Yes, but for an efficient route 12:24:14 <Flygon> Urg 12:24:16 <Flygon> Problem is 12:24:23 <Flygon> Both Siberia and Middle East are bleak 12:24:33 <Flygon> The point of the tour is to give very interesting sights 12:24:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but isn't one point about cruises that you end up where you started? 12:24:57 <Flygon> Assuming the Chinese airforce cooperated and allowed nice looking views... 12:24:59 <Flygon> ... 12:25:00 <Flygon> Crap 12:25:04 <Flygon> He's right 12:25:43 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to go from A to B, you take the plane, if you want to have a nice time, you want to be home after a week or two 12:29:18 <jonty-comp> so put parachutes on the airship 12:29:28 <jonty-comp> then when you're floating over your hometown, you just jump out 12:29:33 <Flygon> Eddi: How about this, from Tokyo to Hawaii, to San Fran, to NY 12:32:02 <Eddi|zuHause> note that in each of these places you need a location to land so the people can spend a day in the town 12:32:39 <Flygon> ... 12:32:40 <Flygon> Crud 12:32:48 <Flygon> You're screwed in Japan, then 12:32:56 <Flygon> There's nowhere in Tok- 12:32:59 <Flygon> I'm stupid 12:33:17 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4277.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:33:31 <Flygon> One of the advantages of Blimps is the theoretical possibility of an above-air passenger disembarkment... 12:33:35 <Rubidium> a day in Tokyo? Are you trying to do the Europe in 7 days kind of thing? 12:33:49 <Rubidium> Flygon: there's plenty of places where a blimp can land in Tokyo 12:34:06 <Flygon> A 1500 meter one? 12:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause> one that needs 300m runway? 12:34:23 <Flygon> If you're gonna be a cruise ship, gotta do it in massive style 12:34:28 <Rubidium> definitely 12:34:58 <Flygon> I'm not sure there's anywhere within 30-50km of the CBD that could handle a blimp LANDING that's so big 12:35:17 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 12:36:06 <Rubidium> the big (national-ish) airport is only 20 km away 12:36:25 <Flygon> Could that handle a 1500m long blimp? 12:36:44 <Rubidium> I see no reason why it can't 12:36:48 <Flygon> Hmm 12:37:02 <Rubidium> it's completely man-made land, so a place for a 1500m blimp can be made as well 12:37:03 <Flygon> Either way, easy to land the in Australia :p 12:37:26 <Flygon> Except Tullamarine. 12:37:39 <Flygon> Er, wait, stupid statement 12:37:49 <Flygon> Plenty of unused ground, and is a good helidepot... 12:38:05 <Rubidium> alternatively... the blimp could land on water 12:38:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure every place that you actually WANT to go to in australia is equally crowded as europe... 12:38:25 <Flygon> That's a good idea, rough weather gives concerns though 12:38:43 <Flygon> Eddi: Look up the urban density of Melbourne and Sydney 12:38:58 <Flygon> It pales compared to Paris, London, Warsaw... 12:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: so the houses are smaller, there still won't be any large enough spaces without houses 12:39:48 <Flygon> True 12:39:56 <Flygon> Melbourne's urban sprawl is stupidly high in the East... 12:39:59 <Flygon> But in the West?: 12:40:26 <Flygon> I can name one airport that could be trivially expanded for supermassive airships, and also be linked to a local fast train line 12:40:44 <Flygon> Presuming they electrified it, so that 200-230km/h actually becomes practical >_> 12:40:53 <Flygon> Current Diesels lack the acceleration 12:41:12 <Rubidium> Montreal Mirabel? 12:41:23 <Flygon> Montreal Mirabel? 12:41:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that is in australia :p 12:41:54 <Flygon> It isn't 12:42:08 <Flygon> I think Supermassive airships have good freight and passenger transport 12:42:14 <Flygon> Specifically, mining 12:42:40 <Rubidium> you know those things become massive wind catchers, right? 12:43:00 <Flygon> True, and they'd be rigid... 12:43:47 <Eddi|zuHause> of course they'd be rigid, they're not hot air balloons 12:43:58 <Flygon> Well, you can make nonrigid airships 12:44:00 <Flygon> But they're not as good 12:44:37 <Flygon> And transporting coal using airships is kinda stupid 12:44:42 <Flygon> Easier to use ships 12:44:58 <Flygon> I think it has some practical use for more inland materials, though, eg. uranium 12:44:58 <Rubidium> Flygon: Mirabal airport was envisioned as a 100.000 acres (40.000 ha), currently it's 17.000 acres which includes plenty of room for expansion 12:45:20 <Flygon> Rubidium: With airships, AUSTRALIA is an airport :P 12:46:43 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 12:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure berlin tempelhof would be a nice place for large airships :p 12:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> nice empty space with no use, in the middle of the city 12:47:44 <Flygon> I know it's an injoke, but I don't get it :( 12:47:59 <Flygon> Sounds like saying Frankston is the worlds largest prison, though 12:48:57 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: Berlin Brandenburg would be a nice place as well for the coming decade 12:49:36 *** terjesc [terjesc@horisont.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #openttd 12:50:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: berlin used to have 3 airports. two in west and one in east. then they decided they want to have one big airport and close down the two others, the smallest one, Tempelhof, was closed like 10 years ago already, the larger one, Tegel, was supposed to be closed last year together with the opening of the really large one near the old third airport, Schönefeld. but then they totally failed to open that in time 12:50:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Schönefeld is directly outside berlin's borders 12:50:59 <Flygon> Ah 12:51:05 <Flygon> Melbourne has at least 3 airports 12:51:29 <Flygon> Essendon, Tullamarine, and Avalon (which is closer to Geelong) 12:52:25 <Flygon> But Essendon is used for only specific flights, Tullamarine is the big one 12:53:06 <Flygon> ...the Liberal Government wants to built ANOTHER airport... instead of building trainlines to Tulla OR Avalon >_> 12:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: the actual scandal is that everything was prepared, and then like a month before opening they said "ugh... i guess we won't make it, we need at least another half year", and then they said "ugh, another year may be more realistic" and they ended up with "i guess we have no clue when we can make it" 12:53:32 <Flygon> Ah 12:53:35 <Flygon> How Australian of Germany 12:56:42 <Pikka> frosch123, not necessarily "looping", but it would be nice to have the interval between sound effects be regular. :) 12:57:03 <frosch123> you won't get them perfectly regular 12:57:13 <frosch123> sound playback is a realtime thing 12:57:16 <frosch123> ottd is not 12:57:21 <frosch123> esp. with lots of vehicles 12:57:30 <Pikka> true 12:58:13 <Pikka> I may just have to deal with it then, as I did in the past. :) the "pattern" seems odd though. 12:59:58 <Eddi|zuHause> how is it that cats always occupy the space you want to occupy? 13:00:30 <Pikka> like there's a counter which is overflowing... 13:00:58 <Eddi|zuHause> if i want to go to bet, they lie on the bed, if i want to sit on the chair, they lie on the chair, if i want to get dressed they lie on the clothes, ... :p 13:01:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: whatever space I occupy, babies want me out of it, for one reason or another 13:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause> if i want to go down the stairs, they are on the step directly below, for every step 13:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i think Schrödinger never observed the right quantum effects with his cat 13:03:51 <andythenorth> I just had to move off the sofa 13:03:52 <andythenorth> again 13:03:59 <andythenorth> so the toddler can watch tv 13:04:55 <Eddi|zuHause> just record the show, cut out the commercials, and he will watch TV for 40% shorter time :) 13:05:38 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: just sit on them; they should be able to learn it 13:06:30 <Eddi|zuHause> postulate: "cats don't occupy any space until you try to move" 13:07:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "then they occupy exactly the space that you want to move to" 13:07:21 <andythenorth> there's probably a game idea in it 13:07:29 <jonty-comp> don't blink 13:07:32 <andythenorth> reminds me of old BBC micro games 13:09:28 <andythenorth> hmm 13:09:44 <andythenorth> FISH has info about propulsion type of the ship 13:09:52 <andythenorth> is that worth bothering with? 13:10:23 <Pikka> I'm not even putting info about the propulsion type of my trains any more :) 13:10:31 * Pikka bedtime 13:10:38 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d114-78-18-160.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:12:05 <andythenorth> I kind of like the propulsion info 13:12:11 <andythenorth> but I have boats with 100 year model life 13:12:25 <andythenorth> propelled by: steam, compound steam, diesel, waterjet 13:12:52 <andythenorth> changing the string is faff 13:14:06 <andythenorth> going going 13:14:08 <andythenorth> gone 13:16:34 <Eddi|zuHause> there was recently a TV show who mocked around monopoly replacing the flat-iron piece with a cat, that now the flat-iron tries to become as popular as cats on the internet. and one of the videos they parodized was the "don't blink cat" :( 13:16:39 <Eddi|zuHause> :) 13:17:46 <andythenorth> I wish newgrf lang was a database :P 13:17:51 <andythenorth> dropping a string is painful 13:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just introduce it as a new model with different running costs? 13:17:57 <andythenorth> dropping 10 strings is extra painful 13:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sed/awk? 13:18:26 <andythenorth> requires andythenorth to be more clever 13:18:27 <andythenorth> :( 13:18:47 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25005 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/gaelic.txt (2013-02-16 12:28:45 UTC) 13:18:48 <DorpsGek> -Add: Scottish Gaelic 13:19:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "sed -i /STR_BLAH/d" or something 13:19:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd have to look up the exact thing 13:20:39 <andythenorth> hmm 13:20:43 <andythenorth> one day I'll learn sed 13:20:47 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:20:54 <andythenorth> I figure not doing that is wasting a lot of my time :P 13:22:31 <Eddi|zuHause> just put the command into a "drop_sting.sh" file :) 13:22:39 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:22:42 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 13:22:45 <Eddi|zuHause> *drop_string 13:23:07 <Alberth> hello again 13:24:32 <andythenorth> upgraded? 13:24:46 <Alberth> sort of, the base system is up again :) 13:25:13 <Alberth> I am sure I am still missing lots of packages :) 13:30:03 <andythenorth> hmm 13:30:08 <andythenorth> nmlc can use a different lang folder? 13:31:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably a parameter 13:32:49 <andythenorth> it is 13:33:00 <andythenorth> hmm 13:33:06 <andythenorth> the FISH makefile appears to be an nfo one 13:33:13 <andythenorth> works with nml 13:33:19 <andythenorth> :o 13:39:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i was under the impression the makefile was a plugin-style system 13:39:45 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:01 <andythenorth> pl*netmaker would know :) 13:40:08 <andythenorth> I just am glad that it works 13:42:13 <planetmaker> yes... and no. I've written and re-written makefile(s) so often... it's hard to say 13:42:31 <planetmaker> depends on which you actually got :D 13:42:41 <jonty-comp> haha 13:42:47 <jonty-comp> nice post there planetmaker 13:42:52 <planetmaker> :D 13:42:59 <Eddi|zuHause> why does the +5V sensor say +2.98V? 13:43:00 <jonty-comp> i totally forgot the openttd forum was tt-forums :p 13:43:31 <planetmaker> within specs? 13:43:35 <planetmaker> different ground? 13:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> "intrusion0: ALARM"... soso... 13:48:21 <Alberth> a burglar in your computer!!! 13:49:15 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3806/squid_capacity_strings.png 13:49:26 <andythenorth> the extra info about capacity is ugly 13:49:27 <andythenorth> ^^ 13:49:33 <andythenorth> (end of the buy menu) 13:49:51 <planetmaker> yes 13:50:23 <planetmaker> I think it doesn't matter exactly, if capacity of other cargos is in the range of the default one 13:51:29 <andythenorth> certainly there's no point repeating the pax capacity if pax is default cargo 13:52:36 <planetmaker> but hard to know the default cargo 13:53:58 <andythenorth> it's a property in the config 13:54:14 <andythenorth> if some industry grf removes pax, well meh :) 13:55:39 <planetmaker> yes, that's why :-) 13:58:16 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:59:03 <andythenorth> hmm 13:59:49 <andythenorth> I want a nice way to work out the parent class of an entity from its subclass 14:00:10 <andythenorth> i.e. I know it's a fast_ferry, ferry, or whatever 14:00:22 <andythenorth> in python 14:00:42 <andythenorth> I could do a dict of horrible mappings 14:00:54 <andythenorth> ach I'll do that, it's simplest 14:02:51 <frosch123> 144 tons of suspicious lasagne found :) 14:03:04 <frosch123> i am surprised how many horses are around 14:03:34 <jonty-comp> i thought that 14:03:42 <jonty-comp> surely there aren't that many horses for this whole thing to be viable 14:05:56 <Rubidium> frosch123: all those 8 year old girls wanting and getting a pony, but once they are like 16 they want to get rid of them 14:06:05 <frosch123> :) 14:06:24 <planetmaker> if lasagne contains 10% meat... it's 14 tons of meat. And even that is much meat content and if 100% of the meat is horse 14:06:28 <frosch123> so it's andy's fault 14:07:00 <andythenorth> mmm 14:07:02 <andythenorth> ponies 14:07:36 <Rubidium> also... it'll be 144 tons of probably mislabeled lasagna 14:13:59 <andythenorth> ooh 14:14:04 <andythenorth> fish r1k getting close 14:19:46 <V453000> didnt fish get eaten? :P 14:20:30 <Alberth> it wiggled its way out of it :) 14:20:31 <Eddi|zuHause> have you ever met a girl that actually GOT a pony? 14:20:51 <planetmaker> my sister. But those are full-grown horses 14:21:01 <frosch123> i am not sure about pony/horse 14:21:10 <planetmaker> and she got them at her wedding 14:21:11 <frosch123> but yes, i have met several girls with horses 14:21:35 <planetmaker> but indeed ^ 14:22:12 <frosch123> i think those girls i think of got their horse like other youth get a moped 14:22:18 <frosch123> with 16 or 18 or so 14:23:06 <planetmaker> yes, some of my friends had some back then, too 14:23:17 <planetmaker> gotta live in the country side ;-) 14:23:39 <frosch123> otoh the girls at age 8 who team up with their friends to save a few euros every week from their pocket money... they usually do not end up with horses :) 14:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i just had a pizza with horse-salami and horse-mushrooms, anyway... 14:24:02 <planetmaker> yes, tasty 14:24:03 <frosch123> horse-mushrooms :) 14:24:53 <planetmaker> iew... those horses won't be tasty anymore then :D 14:25:19 <frosch123> apparently they are called sheep-mushrooms in german :p 14:26:15 <andythenorth> V453000: fish ate squid instead 14:26:26 <frosch123> there is always a bigger fish 14:26:38 <andythenorth> hmm 14:26:44 <andythenorth> Squid includes trawlers 14:27:02 <andythenorth> I was going to give them 30t of fish cargo in holds, or 15t or so of any cargo on deck 14:27:10 <andythenorth> dunno if that's good 14:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not 14:27:50 <andythenorth> because...? 14:28:11 <Eddi|zuHause> just make a normal ship and have them show up as fish trawlers if refitted to fish (trawler) subtype 14:28:43 <andythenorth> ugh 14:28:45 <andythenorth> subtypes :) 14:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause> subtypes so it won't be used with normal autorefit 14:44:20 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 14:44:35 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:48:25 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-080-148.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:53:16 *** kormer [~kormer@c-68-55-166-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:05:02 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:40:12 *** Kylar [2e257acd@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:40:14 <Markk> Good day everone. 15:40:34 <Kylar> good day 15:40:46 <Markk> How do you say: "I have written to you on Facebook chat, can you please check it out?" in German? 15:40:59 <Kylar> go:google translate 15:41:12 <Markk> I could of course use Google Translate, but that wouldn't be especially grammatically correct. 15:41:16 <Markk> I'm afraid. 15:42:03 <Kylar> grammar is pretty much consistent in all languages 15:42:18 <Kylar> a comma is a comma, etc 15:42:23 <Alberth> the chat language was no problem, but this message is? 15:43:04 <Kylar> im confused lol 15:43:13 <Alberth> me too :) 15:44:03 <Kylar> lol 15:45:02 <Kylar> too early for beer? 15:46:38 <Alberth> if you need to drive today, it is probably :) 15:47:16 <Kylar> I dont hold a licence so I'm OK lol 15:47:44 <Alberth> :) 15:47:51 <Kylar> I have my fella to act as chauffeur 15:48:22 <andythenorth> biab 15:48:25 <andythenorth> duties 15:48:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:49:32 <Alberth> I just walk :p 15:49:44 <Markk> I have a flu atm. 15:49:51 <Markk> So my head is not really clear. 15:49:54 <Kylar> I live on the top of a mountain in the middle of Spain, I aint walking anywhere 15:50:09 <Markk> Just jump down, a lot quicker. 15:50:16 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: Do you fancy helping me? :) 15:50:22 <Kylar> Lots of fluids for you then Markk 15:50:24 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: I know that you're a nice fellow. 15:55:24 <Markk> Kylar: Yes, I've taken a double dosage of acetylsalicylic acid (or aspirin as many countries call it), 1 gram of paracetamol (or as the yankees calls it: acetaminophen), I've drank quite a lot of water as well (the form of acetylsalicylic acid I took is fizzies, the name is Treo), and then I took some diclofenac as a gel and applied to my neck and shoulders. 15:55:54 <Markk> Also some muscle relaxant and a bit stronger pain killer that I have prescriped. 15:56:05 <Markk> So I'm starting to feel a bit normal. 15:56:16 <Markk> I really, really, want to be normal today. 15:56:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you probably shouldn't be doing german in this state :p 15:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so what have you come up with so far? 15:58:08 <Kylar> Markk, you are aware that you can take paracetamol and ibuprofen together don't you 15:58:23 <Markk> Kylar: Yes, I know. 15:58:39 <Kylar> ibuprofen is quite good with the flu 15:58:41 <Markk> I didn't take any ibuprofen though. 15:58:49 <Markk> Only aspirin. 15:58:53 <Markk> Both are NSAIDs. 15:59:04 <Markk> And paracetamol isn't a NSAID. 15:59:07 <Kylar> as it's an anti inflam it will take the swelling off the muscle 15:59:43 <Kylar> also warm lemonade with whisky 15:59:52 <Markk> yer 16:00:37 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: But anyway, how do you say "can you please check X, because I've written a message there for you." in German? 16:01:11 <Kylar> booze and meds, fabulous darling! 16:01:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Markk: you do the words and i help you arrange them in the right way, deal? :) 16:02:14 <Kylar> i could do with someone doing that for me with spanish! 16:03:07 <Markk> Kylar: Don't really like alcohol like that. 16:03:12 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: hm 16:03:35 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: So I shall find the german words for it any you help me to correct the grammar? 16:04:06 <Kylar> get yourself a cheap bottle of whiskey and have a few hot toddies. 16:04:29 <Markk> Not like I can buy whiskey at this hour. 16:05:19 <Kylar> grammar is grammar regardless, all languages have commas, apostrophes, full stops etc. They generally are placed the same as English 16:05:26 <Kylar> and what time is it Markk 16:06:02 <Eddi|zuHause> why would there be a time limit for buxing whiskey? 16:06:04 <Markk> 04:16 pm 16:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause> s/x/y/ 16:06:36 <Kylar> it's after 12! 16:07:20 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: "Können Sie bitte eine Nachricht, dass ich fÌr dich schrieb bei Facebook?" 16:07:34 <Markk> Kylar, Eddi|zuHause: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systembolaget 16:07:39 <Markk> Read that article. 16:07:42 <Kylar> mmm whiskey 16:07:45 <Markk> Then you'll understand. 16:08:17 <Kylar> ahhh didnt reallise you were in sweden 16:08:39 <Markk> :) 16:08:42 <Kylar> I actually want to return 16:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Markk: step 1) i'd reverse those two parts, first say what you did, then what the other person should do. 16:08:57 <Markk> I have some liqour in the fridge though. 16:09:17 <Kylar> what is it? 16:09:45 <Markk> liquor* 16:09:50 <__ln__> it's a closet which stays cold and keeps food fresh. 16:09:55 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: This was the meaning that I translated: "Can you please check a message that I wrote for you on Facebook?" 16:10:07 <Markk> __ln__: :D 16:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Markk: yes, but i think it's bad style 16:10:35 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: This was the first part I translated: "can you please check the Facebook, because I've written a message there for you" 16:10:40 <Markk> ""können Sie ÌberprÌfen Sie bitte die Facebook, weil ich dort eine Nachricht fÌr Sie geschrieben habe 16:10:44 <Markk> "* 16:10:45 * NGC3982 invades finland. 16:11:31 <Kylar> I want to invade one of the OTT servers but the connection keeps dropping :( 16:11:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Kylar: the map is too big? 16:12:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Kylar: there is a timelimit for downloading the map, and then a time limit for catching up with the server 16:13:23 <Kylar> it's a pain in the ass 16:13:42 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:14:28 <Kylar> I'm going to leave it for now - I think windows is downloading updates, so it's taking up a fair whack of my bandwidth 16:16:50 <Kylar> how do you start a multiplayer game? 16:17:49 <frosch123> you click multiplayer 16:18:39 <Kylar> sorry, I meant host a multiplayer game 16:18:56 <Alberth> you click multiplayer :) 16:19:11 <frosch123> https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/Server 16:19:12 <Kylar> OK! No need to be smart arses 16:19:24 <Kylar> cheers frosch 16:20:01 <frosch123> not sure whether the info is complete you might also need: 16:20:03 <frosch123> @ports 16:20:03 <DorpsGek> frosch123: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 16:20:44 <Alberth> yeah, port forwarding is always a mess to set up 16:21:24 <frosch123> just play only lan :p 16:21:27 <jonty-comp> can't you make bananas just download over http? then that's one less port 16:21:44 <Kylar> I'm not quite that good on the PC lol. I'll have a play with it and see what I can do 16:21:48 <jonty-comp> although i'm sure such has been discussed before 16:22:11 <frosch123> jonty-comp: it uses http for some stuff, but some stuff cannot be made available via http 16:22:30 <Kylar> When my fellas stopped streaming youtubes entire video archive 16:25:01 <jonty-comp> ah 16:27:14 <Kylar> hes a bleeding nightmare when hes on youtube, you'd think he was downloading the entire internet 16:29:02 <Kylar> right, im gonna make a move need a bath 16:29:09 <Kylar> cyas later 16:29:16 *** Kylar [2e257acd@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 16:38:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:47:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:54:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:12:27 <andythenorth> hmm 17:12:39 <andythenorth> I've banned Fish cargo from most of the ferries 17:12:53 <andythenorth> because going fishing with ferries is a silly 17:16:15 <andythenorth> petrol on ferries? 17:16:52 <andythenorth> nah 17:20:35 <andythenorth> tankers carrying alcohol? 17:20:39 <andythenorth> happens irl 17:20:45 <kormer> Does anyone here have any clue why GSTown.ExpandTown(this.id,1); would only ever work on a single town and not the others? 17:21:29 <jonty-comp> man i would like to hijack an oil tanker if it was full of alcohol 17:21:45 <kormer> I've got conditional checks before that, and I'm logging the parameters inside the condition, so I know it's being executed on the other towns, it just isn't doing anything. 17:22:22 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:23:02 <andythenorth> jonty-comp: http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/search.php?search_category_1=64 17:23:29 <andythenorth> guiness tanker http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1623032 17:23:48 <jonty-comp> aw, they aren't big enough 17:33:11 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25006 /trunk/src/script/api (game/game_window.hpp.sq script_window.hpp) (2013-02-16 16:43:05 UTC) 17:33:12 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Update script_window. 17:38:17 <andythenorth> hmm 17:38:19 <andythenorth> container ship 17:38:26 <andythenorth> allow bulk cargos like coal? 17:42:09 *** chester_ [~chester@95-26-101-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 17:42:19 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:45:33 <andythenorth> nah 17:47:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:04:46 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-080-148.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 18:14:40 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has left #openttd [Leaving] 18:18:26 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:24:10 <__ln__> can someone point me to a definition for 'platform' in computing context? some sort of textbook or something, not wikipedia. 18:27:16 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:43:56 * Zuu published some preliminary patches of click-on-string. They need some overlook on naming of things etc. 18:44:19 <Zuu> I wrote a wiki too: https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/Zuu/click-on-string 18:45:45 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 18:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i don't remember ever seeing such a thing 18:52:24 <terjesc> __ln__: I have searched some of my CS books, but can't find any of them mentioning 'platform'. 18:53:33 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:54:22 <jonty-comp> aaah the scary moment when you take your backup server offline to replace a disk 18:54:42 <jonty-comp> and have to watch your coworker on the live camera taking it to bits 18:54:48 <jonty-comp> pls to not break my backup 18:55:52 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:56:09 *** ivan` [~ivan`@000130ca.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 18:56:14 *** ivan` [~ivan`@000130ca.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:56:17 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:56:29 <supermop> hello! 18:57:31 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, plus to not breaking backups 18:57:51 *** kormer [~kormer@c-68-55-166-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:57:55 <__ln__> zomg, i think i've found a definition through books.google.com. in short, "The platform is the set of software and hardware services that are provided to the application." 18:58:23 <terjesc> __ln__: "Distributed Systems - Concepts and Designs", fourth edition, Addison Wesley (ISBN 978-0-321-26354-4) has a description on page 32. 18:58:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's about what i would have come up with... "the combination of hardware and operating system environment" 18:59:13 <terjesc> Along with a figure showing the layers of a system: Computer and network hardware, operating system, middleware and applications/services. The two bottom layers are marked "Platform". 19:00:10 <__ln__> thanks terjesc, i'll have a look at that book as well. 19:00:50 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:00:54 <terjesc> "The lowest-level hardware and software layers are often referred to as a platform for distributed systems and applications. (...) Intel x86/Windows, Intel x86/Solaris, PowerPC/Mac OS X (...) are major examples." 19:01:18 <terjesc> __ln__: np 19:01:23 <terjesc> (= 19:01:48 <__ln__> for the record, the one that i found was in "Embedded System Design" by Gajski et al. 19:01:56 *** kormer [~kormer@c-68-55-166-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:03:01 <__ln__> terjesc: ah, that's even a better definition for my purposes. 19:03:54 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:03:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 19:04:21 <Alberth> the lowest level are indivual logic gates, imho 19:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: not if you consider "hardware" as one monolithic level ;) 19:05:15 <Alberth> and the lowest software level is probably in programming the CPU instructions 19:05:47 <terjesc> In this context it is "hardware" (as a whole) and "operating system". q: 19:06:46 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that is a semantical layer ("lower level programming language" vs. "higher level programming language), not a logical layer (direct interfacing with hardware, vs. indirect interfacing with hardware) 19:06:52 <Alberth> why not just use "operating system?" 19:07:08 <__ln__> because the OS is not the same as platform 19:07:36 <terjesc> "Platform" is all the way down from OS to HW, while OS is just the OS. 19:07:40 <__ln__> Linux on i386 is in many sense not the same platform as Linux on ARMv6 19:08:05 <Alberth> it is? all standard unix utilities work the same 19:08:25 <Alberth> and one cc further, you have an arbitrary app running 19:08:46 <terjesc> Not necessarily. 19:09:26 <Alberth> if you write good C/C++, it is 19:09:33 <__ln__> let's say a platform is binary-compatible with itself. m'kay? 19:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: they may be interface compatible, but not binary compatible 19:09:51 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: hence 'cc', ie build from source 19:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: so "platform" is now including the compiler? 19:10:34 <Alberth> OS does 19:10:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i really doubt that 19:12:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i don't think many people have compilers on their phones 19:12:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yet "iPhone/iOS" is a platform in every sense of the word 19:13:05 <Alberth> like it is uniform hardware :p 19:14:00 <Alberth> we have very nice experiences with patches that worked on one i* machine failed on another :D 19:14:37 <Eddi|zuHause> what does that have to do with anything? 19:14:48 <terjesc> Is that to say you wrote bad code? 19:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody said a platform can't have "poorly documented features" 19:15:47 <Alberth> terjesc: impossible to say, with lack of sane documentation 19:15:53 <terjesc> (= 19:17:00 <Alberth> but you see the same mess with your average PC card, manufacturers constantly switch components to save a few cents 19:18:28 <terjesc> Well, anyway, the way I have seen the term "platform" used is to describe OS and the CPU Instruction Set Architecture. 19:19:14 <terjesc> Of course there are different CPU vendors and a myriad of other hardware in a machine. 19:25:23 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:25:30 <Bad_Brett> good evening 19:26:16 <supermop> hi 19:29:59 <oskari89> Oh why there can't be drag&drop for objects... 19:30:38 <oskari89> Dutch Road Furniture would be more comfortable to use with that drag&drop 19:35:13 <Rubidium> because nobody bothered to come up with a decent specification 19:36:00 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25007 /trunk/src/lang (9 files) (2013-02-16 18:45:45 UTC) 19:36:01 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 19:36:02 <DorpsGek> bulgarian - 15 changes by ivanarj 19:36:04 <DorpsGek> esperanto - 1 changes by Asakha 19:36:05 <DorpsGek> greek - 41 changes by Evropi 19:36:06 <DorpsGek> hungarian - 24 changes by oklmernok 19:36:07 <DorpsGek> icelandic - 4 changes by Stimrol 19:36:08 <DorpsGek> japanese - 50 changes by Aknuth 19:36:09 <DorpsGek> korean - 2 changes by telk5093 19:36:10 <DorpsGek> norwegian_nynorsk - 1 changes by skjaeve 19:36:11 <DorpsGek> polish - 4 changes by wojteks86 19:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i think we had that same discussion a week ago :p 19:37:20 <Rubidium> as long as "we" doesn't include me, then yes that's possible. Otherwise, I can't remember a thing of it 19:41:54 <peter1138> ooh, rgb colour maps still compiles :p 19:42:03 <oskari89> *sigh* diagonal roads could be nice too... 19:42:07 <peter1138> hotpink company colour 19:42:09 <peter1138> lovely 19:46:32 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 19:48:25 *** Ttech [~ttech@00014919.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 19:48:43 *** Ttech [ttech@00014919.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:49:17 <supermop> rgb color maps...? 19:56:08 <peter1138> colour maps 20:04:15 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:05:21 <supermop> like the world map? 20:06:03 <peter1138> heh, no, company colour recoloring 20:06:06 <peter1138> *recolouring 20:06:47 <oskari89> Is there any patch "Clone x number of vehicles with one click? 20:07:29 <peter1138> yes but it's pretty old 20:07:55 <supermop> to arbitrary rgb values? 20:08:01 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:08:06 <peter1138> yes 20:08:11 <supermop> cool' 20:08:44 <peter1138> 32bpp blitter only feature, heh 20:11:28 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:12:18 *** kormer936 [~kormer@c-68-55-166-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 20:12:26 *** kormer [~kormer@c-68-55-166-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:13:06 <V453000> when will colours be in trunk peter1138? :) 20:20:37 <Eddi|zuHause> there are colours in trunk 20:20:48 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:25:12 <peter1138> :-) 20:33:01 <Snail> tbh I'm comfortable with the default 256 colors, especially since the sprites are so small 20:33:31 <Snail> we could use an extra set of shades of red though :p 20:35:13 <frosch123> use the fire cycle :p 20:35:18 <frosch123> it's red 20:35:28 <frosch123> maybe some yellow 20:35:50 <Rubidium> that's also a shade of red, isn't it? 20:36:17 <Rubidium> just a bit too much green ;) 20:37:53 <NGC3982> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Fl0TEtHvvO0 20:37:57 <NGC3982> :D 20:38:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:40:36 <peter1138> wut 20:41:55 <Rubidium> looks like a typical Japanese commercial 20:48:00 <Snail> the fire cycle is made of blinking pixels :p 20:48:54 <Snail> and tbh I love all those different greens :D 20:56:24 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/recolour3.png < more greens 20:56:59 <andythenorth> yummy 20:58:58 <Eddi|zuHause> so, who is going to reattach my retina now? :p 20:59:17 <peter1138> :D 20:59:32 <frosch123> educate your cats 20:59:40 <frosch123> they could even show you the path at night 21:01:28 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: obviously someone from the genius bar 21:04:41 <andythenorth> should I ban bulk cargos from the cargo hovercraft? 21:05:50 <frosch123> maybe you could reduce the running cost, if it transports hover boards 21:07:21 <andythenorth> what about helium? 21:07:27 <andythenorth> or anti-grav? 21:07:56 <Eddi|zuHause> make an anti-grav cargo class? 21:08:26 <andythenorth> appealing 21:08:34 <andythenorth> where does it go? 21:09:14 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Probabaly don't ban them, just increase the running cost until it's uneconomic to use them :P 21:09:25 <andythenorth> fiddlesticks 21:09:28 <FLHerne> Same as helicopters... 21:09:32 <andythenorth> running cost is not a gameplay factor 21:09:44 <andythenorth> the only things that matter are refits, capacity and speed 21:09:51 <andythenorth> the rest is piffle 21:09:55 <andythenorth> :) 21:10:07 <FLHerne> Increase the running cost until it *is* a factor, then :P 21:10:17 * FLHerne is already a basecosts-grf user 21:10:51 <andythenorth> yeah 21:11:02 <andythenorth> that's why in MP you have double-headed electrics on every cargo :P 21:11:09 <andythenorth> because you care so much :D 21:11:18 <andythenorth> or was that scuddles? 21:11:34 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-205-63.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:11:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: set cargp aging on "slow" ships so the speed doesn't matter... 21:12:37 *** joey8 [~JoeEvans@host86-172-149-35.range86-172.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:13:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: surely overall cost do not matter. but unprofitable routes are a pain to see 21:14:05 <andythenorth> I've forgotten how classes work 21:14:08 <Rubidium> just needs the cargodist 'capacity' overlay that shows the average profit of the trains passing there 21:14:37 <andythenorth> if cargo is piece, covered, and my vehicle is piece, and doesn't exclude covered 21:14:39 <andythenorth> then all is well? 21:17:17 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:17:47 <andythenorth> yeah it will be fine 21:18:49 <andythenorth> so 21:18:55 <andythenorth> tankers carrying milk? 21:19:00 <andythenorth> seems a bit off 21:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause> exclude piece? 21:19:59 <andythenorth> yes 21:20:01 <Eddi|zuHause> just don't exclude liquid on the piece-freighter then 21:20:16 <andythenorth> I'm preferring to exclude known cargos in fact 21:20:24 <Eddi|zuHause> assuming milk is piece,liquid 21:20:25 <andythenorth> excluding unknown cargos by class is prone to breaking classes 21:20:38 <andythenorth> classes / class based refitting /s 21:20:42 <andythenorth> as Zeph proved :P 21:21:05 <Eddi|zuHause> you just have to make sure you have one "monotonous" refit mask 21:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you ever exclude a cargo class, you need to have a vehicle that includes this mask and does not exclude any others 21:25:13 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:25:20 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 21:25:38 <FLHerne> andythenorth: That's atypical of me (delayed response) :P 21:26:22 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Different settings, and competetiveness - normally I try to use every vehicle at least once :D 21:26:40 <andythenorth> :) 21:27:29 <andythenorth> can't decide if ferries can deliver petrol 21:27:30 <andythenorth> irl, yes 21:27:37 <andythenorth> but this igw 21:27:52 <andythenorth> plenty of other ships carrying petrol 21:29:45 <andythenorth> mail in container ships? 21:29:49 <andythenorth> FISH said no 21:29:54 <andythenorth> Squid could say yes 21:29:58 <andythenorth> vote now :P 21:30:33 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-98-212.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 21:30:49 *** eQualizer [~lauri@46-163-223-93.blcnet.fi] has quit [Server closed connection] 21:30:51 *** eQualizer [~lauri@46-163-223-93.blcnet.fi] has joined #openttd 21:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't decide that 21:32:07 <andythenorth> there are no shortage of ships for carrying mail 21:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd want to have mail/armored/express in faster ships 21:32:21 <andythenorth> of similar capacities and speed as the container ships 21:32:25 *** joho [~joho@takamachi.nanoha.se] has quit [Server closed connection] 21:32:25 <andythenorth> so I think no 21:32:31 <andythenorth> it's just logically a bit odd 21:32:37 *** joho [~joho@takamachi.nanoha.se] has joined #openttd 21:33:14 <andythenorth> mail clearly goes by container http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dhl+container&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&rls=en&biw=1276&bih=668&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Wu8fUfMpqv_hBLzpgcAH&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ 21:33:16 *** FLHerne_ [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:33:42 <FLHerne_> Petrol on ferries - I doubt it in useful quantities, they don't normally like hazardous substances... 21:33:56 <Eddi|zuHause> excluding mail on "cargo" ships may be better for cerain autorefit cases 21:34:06 <FLHerne_> Voting no for containerised mail 21:34:33 <andythenorth> I even have this on my desk at work http://www.scalefarm.com/products/D-00620-Z.jpg 21:34:40 <andythenorth> but no to mail 21:34:43 <andythenorth> and no to petrol on ferries 21:35:07 <andythenorth> hmm 21:35:20 <andythenorth> changing subject, FIRS needs lot of translation updates still 21:35:24 <andythenorth> I could release 0.9.3 then 21:35:26 <andythenorth> or before :P 21:35:28 <FLHerne_> Probably not the kind of domestic mail I'd imagine in OTTD for that? 21:35:36 <andythenorth> +1 21:36:23 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-102-108.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:44 <andythenorth> hmm 21:36:50 <andythenorth> no you won't go fishing by hovercraft 21:37:08 <planetmaker> :-) 21:37:34 <andythenorth> there are probably all kinds of cases about shipping large amounts of frozen fish and such 21:37:35 <andythenorth> but meh 21:38:43 <Eddi|zuHause> excluding fish is a nice idea 21:38:49 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has quit [Server closed connection] 21:39:00 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has joined #openttd 21:39:11 <andythenorth> there's probably a pun in this somewhere 21:39:15 <andythenorth> FISH: doesn't refit Fish 21:39:33 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:41:05 <andythenorth> there are trawlers :P 21:41:14 <andythenorth> and big general cargo ships that refit anything 21:41:20 <frosch123> not transporting fish would break firs, wouldn't it? :p 21:41:39 <frosch123> also, is is very common that big fish have smaller fish in their stomache 21:41:40 <andythenorth> yup :) 21:41:57 <andythenorth> some 'trawlers' are big. I won't be including this http://www.scheveningen-haven.nl/info/overschepen/Atlantic.htm 21:42:00 <andythenorth> 7,000t capacity 21:42:09 <peter1138> do it 21:42:22 <andythenorth> 3x longer than the largest ship in FISH 21:42:27 <andythenorth> might glitch 21:42:34 <peter1138> finescale 21:42:40 <andythenorth> @calc 7000/45 21:42:40 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 155.555555556 21:42:48 <andythenorth> you would need 155 fishing grounds to fill it in one month 21:43:02 <andythenorth> maybe an add-on set :P 21:43:12 <Alberth> but luckily it cannot transport fish :p 21:44:28 <peter1138> a trawler that can't trawl fish? 21:44:32 <andythenorth> Squid Jigging, apparently http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jigging 21:44:57 * andythenorth digresses 21:45:11 <andythenorth> so who's got a spec for ships with multiple cargo holds? 21:46:37 <peter1138> you 21:46:40 <andythenorth> k 21:46:43 <andythenorth> ships have 2 holds 21:46:49 <peter1138> ok 21:46:50 <andythenorth> each can be refitted independently 21:47:05 <andythenorth> capacity can be set for each independently 21:47:19 <andythenorth> cb36 can handle changing properties on 1st or 2nd hold 21:47:31 <andythenorth> some authors will ask for more than 2 holds 21:47:35 <andythenorth> they only get 2 21:47:41 <andythenorth> done 21:47:44 <andythenorth> new GUI 21:47:58 <andythenorth> holds can be named by newgrf 21:48:08 <andythenorth> 'Holds | Cabins' 21:48:13 <andythenorth> 'Holds | Deck Cargo' 21:48:19 <andythenorth> 'Tanks | Deck Cargo' 21:48:19 <andythenorth> etc 21:48:40 <andythenorth> each hold has a refit mask (classes, labels) 21:48:59 <andythenorth> don't arse about with loading speed per hold, unless it's easier to just allow it 21:50:01 <andythenorth> cb 36 gains a var to check which hold is being modified? 21:50:09 <andythenorth> purchase menu crap needs handling 21:53:31 <peter1138> fish is a stupid cargo anyway 21:53:58 <peter1138> you're a transport tycoon, not a fisherman 21:54:06 <andythenorth> tra la la la 21:54:18 <peter1138> DHL don't have fishing subsidiaries do they? 21:54:20 <andythenorth> that was like 10 weeks of discussion in the FIRS dev thread 21:54:25 <peter1138> :D 21:54:31 <andythenorth> it went back and forth, forth and back 21:54:35 <andythenorth> forth and fifth 21:54:43 <andythenorth> then I did it anyway 21:54:45 <andythenorth> I like fishing 21:54:50 <andythenorth> I like deadliest catch 21:56:42 <Eddi|zuHause> "one of these cargos is not like the others" 21:57:31 *** LSky` [~x@5ED5A444.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:58:41 <LSky`> hey everyone, im trying to get my server back online after I updated it to a new revision. However the two people who usually help me understand linux arent available at the moment, and Im a bit stuck. Anyone who could help me a little? 21:59:46 <Eddi|zuHause> no. 22:00:02 <planetmaker> LSky`, it needs somewhat more specific question... 22:00:06 <LSky`> the primary issue is that the autopilot script has stopped working correctly since i updated the server, but aside from that I cant get it to run manually either 22:00:45 <LSky`> from what i understand, im supposed to cd to the directly where the installation is located and then run something along the lines of; ./openttd -D -c openttd.cfg 22:01:24 <LSky`> but that gives me this error; ror: No available language packs (invalid versions?) 22:01:39 <planetmaker> then you didn't compile the languages 22:01:57 <planetmaker> ./configure && make 22:02:11 <planetmaker> or you encountered an error during compilation 22:02:33 <LSky`> i just did the compiling for the windows client, not the linux server, so thats a complicating factor 22:03:03 <LSky`> guess its back to the drawing board. 22:07:57 <LSky`> just to make sure, im not running into this issue? 22:07:58 <LSky`> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=54883#p948672 22:09:14 <andythenorth> logs via container ship? allowed? 22:09:14 <planetmaker> very hard to tell. We don't know how your server and the dirs look like 22:09:34 <planetmaker> I simply get a full checkout of openttd, compile it. And start it also from there 22:09:47 <LSky`> trying that now 22:09:52 <andythenorth> containerised logging http://www.ftdmag.co.nz/articles/dec08/images/log-container.gif 22:09:53 <andythenorth> right 22:10:11 <andythenorth> also http://www.transportation-expert.com/b2b/pics/Foldable_Log_Container.jpg 22:10:36 <Alberth> the former is meh, imho 22:10:53 <planetmaker> they also have their openttd.cfg right next to the binary. so no fancy paths need specification 22:11:03 <Eddi|zuHause> you have special ships for fish and logs, so exclude it 22:11:25 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d114-78-18-160.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:11:25 <andythenorth> I am easily convinced 22:11:29 <Pikka> yes you are 22:11:38 <andythenorth> hey there's even a special machine for it http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/114589487/K_Loader.html 22:11:50 <andythenorth> Pikka: if 10CC is an elaborate troll of me...well :P 22:12:00 <andythenorth> of me? aimed at me :P 22:12:00 <Pikka> :] 22:12:16 <andythenorth> so no wood by hovercraft 22:12:22 <andythenorth> no hover-logging 22:12:51 <Pikka> shameful display 22:12:52 <FLHerne_> andythenorth: Don't prohibit it, make it impractical :P 22:12:56 <FLHerne_> I said that already 22:13:01 <andythenorth> FLHerne_: it's boring to do that 22:13:13 <FLHerne_> Of course, you have a statutory right to ignore anything I say :D 22:13:17 <andythenorth> what you do is make a choice, then try to make it a non-choice :) 22:13:27 <andythenorth> which is just tedious cognitive work, and not really very gamey 22:13:59 <andythenorth> but thanks anyway ;) 22:14:30 <andythenorth> Pikka: have you done your industry grf yet? I need to see if my ships refit for it sensibly :P 22:14:53 <Pikka> not yet :[ 22:15:00 <Pikka> it's basically default cargos anyway 22:15:13 <Pikka> +gravel, "cement" and fertiliser 22:15:18 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/fish/push/LATEST/ 22:15:27 <Pikka> and plastic and lumber 22:15:28 <Pikka> or something 22:15:31 <andythenorth> I tested default and PBI 22:15:39 <andythenorth> refits seem ok to me 22:15:49 <andythenorth> didn't test Toyland with anything :P 22:15:53 <Pikka> good 22:16:21 <frosch123> lumber? why not wood or timber? 22:16:37 <Pikka> because wood is wood 22:16:48 <Pikka> and lumber is lumber 22:16:51 <andythenorth> it's semantic minefield :P 22:16:56 <Pikka> and "timber" is either in british english 22:17:02 <FLHerne_> andythenorth: ECS is common and overcomplex, is it not? 22:17:03 <FLHerne_> Might be worth testing that 22:17:20 <andythenorth> FLHerne_: are you volunteering? o_O Or would you volunteer someone else? 22:19:03 <FLHerne_> andythenorth: I could give it a try, I guess :P 22:19:16 <FLHerne_> Is relevant version on devzone? 22:19:24 <andythenorth> I just linked it above 22:19:56 <andythenorth> I volunteered myself though 22:20:06 <andythenorth> frick 22:20:12 <andythenorth> why does the container ship refit to tourists? 22:20:13 <andythenorth> that's dumb 22:20:48 <andythenorth> containerised tourists http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u16YmVxrlas/T_khqc-3dyI/AAAAAAAAAAk/lzg5lPTTpww/s1600/Lego+Train.jpg 22:22:15 <andythenorth> George: Tourists...Express? Really? :) 22:22:20 <andythenorth> that's necessary? 22:23:10 <Pikka> yes 22:23:41 <Pikka> if you want to deal with tourists you have to exclude passenger class 22:23:51 <andythenorth> I want to not deal with tourists :P 22:23:59 <andythenorth> I'll just exclude them 22:24:07 <Pikka> good idea 22:24:17 <Pikka> make everything explicitly not carry tourists 22:24:19 <andythenorth> from bloody every vehicle 22:24:25 <Pikka> they can walk, sod 'em 22:24:35 <andythenorth> ramblers 22:24:43 <FLHerne_> Why does ECS have tourists as a separate cargo anyway? 22:24:56 <FLHerne_> What stops them being like any other passenger? 22:25:04 <Pikka> for the same reason NARS2 has regearing 22:25:06 *** joey8 [~JoeEvans@host86-172-149-35.range86-172.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:10 <Pikka> it seemed like a good idea at the time 22:25:31 <Pikka> who knows, perhaps tourists continue to seem like a good idea to some :) 22:25:49 <andythenorth> should just change the class 22:27:28 <andythenorth> hmm 22:27:29 <Eddi|zuHause> tourists might be easier since autorefit, but very few sets support that yet 22:27:37 <andythenorth> ferries should carry ECS vehicles 22:27:39 <andythenorth> let's do that 22:27:46 * andythenorth doing ECS support? :o 22:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> problem is that "articulated" vehicles like trams can only have either/or 22:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> not mix both 22:28:35 <andythenorth> and that it has express set as a class :P 22:28:37 <andythenorth> which is silly 22:29:22 <Eddi|zuHause> another problem is that you should differentiate between "outgoing" and "incoming" tourists, so you can't circle them around between tourist centers 22:29:32 <andythenorth> anyway, there now, lots of ships that can carry ECS Vehicles 22:29:34 <andythenorth> how nice 22:33:43 <andythenorth> ECS oil well is nice 22:33:56 <andythenorth> Pikka: does ECS have your oil well graphics? 22:35:17 <Pikka> dunno 22:35:22 <Pikka> does it? 22:37:01 <Pikka> www.pikkarail.com/junk/andytroll.png 22:37:04 <Pikka> coming along 22:37:41 <andythenorth> that tractor is nice 22:38:21 <andythenorth> same size as an F unit eh? 22:38:36 <Pikka> is it? 22:38:55 <Pikka> it's longer, and less high :) 22:39:08 <Eddi|zuHause> is that supposed to be an american flag? 22:39:29 <Pikka> as it is in reality... 22:39:31 *** LSky` [~x@5ED5A444.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:39:33 <andythenorth> can you reuse the F for pineapple? 22:39:46 <Eddi|zuHause> in which reality? :) 22:40:11 <Pikka> no I can't, for a number of reasons 22:40:39 <Pikka> our loading gauge is UK-sized 22:40:51 <Pikka> we didn't have F Units :] 22:41:01 <andythenorth> are all those clyde things smaller then? 22:41:15 <Pikka> they had double-ended Co-Co F units down south, so if I do a general aus set I can reuse the front shape. 22:41:45 <Pikka> our clydes were all hood units 22:41:58 <andythenorth> I C 22:42:03 <Pikka> the only full-width diesels we had here were EE units 22:42:13 <Pikka> single-ended 37s :} 22:42:42 <FLHerne_> Pikka: How is a set with that few vehicles meant to be interesting? :P 22:42:51 <Eddi|zuHause> cold cat is cold... 22:43:01 <andythenorth> pikka there's always a counter-example :P http://www.flickriver.com/photos/imagegallery/3507216808/ 22:43:21 <andythenorth> modified to au loading gauge 22:43:32 <andythenorth> but anyway 22:43:38 <Pikka> no, not modified 22:43:40 <Pikka> that's down south :P 22:43:52 <andythenorth> oh pineapple is localised :P 22:43:54 <andythenorth> I C 22:43:55 <Pikka> pineapple == queensland rail, 3'6" and UK loading gauge 22:44:09 <Pikka> <Pikka> they had double-ended Co-Co F units down south, so if I do a general aus set I can reuse the front shape. 22:44:10 <andythenorth> details details :) 22:44:10 <Pikka> :P 22:44:25 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 22:44:42 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has joined #openttd 22:45:02 * andythenorth considers 10CC NG 22:45:09 <andythenorth> european crap 22:45:14 <Pikka> don't :P 22:45:22 <andythenorth> cheap, gutless 22:45:36 <Pikka> http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd396/john_cleverdon/locopage2/1200_RedbankLMD_20070822.jpg 22:46:07 <Pikka> 1953, they predate 37s by a bit :) 22:46:07 <andythenorth> hmm 22:46:11 <andythenorth> uglys :) 22:46:24 <Pikka> they looked even uglier before they got the sunvisor added 22:47:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: so, what are the design principles behind 10CC again? 22:47:43 <Pikka> http://www.railpage.org.au/qrhistory/images/DieselElectric/1150/1150_19-12-87_Northgate.jpg and our first diesels, had the drawgear on the bogies like class 40s 22:49:45 * Pikka bbl 22:52:33 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-168-176.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:52:54 <LordAro> heyo 22:55:29 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: http://pikkarail.com/openttd/state-of-the-onion-a-history-and-future-of-my-newgrfs/ 22:55:35 <andythenorth> but he can speak for himself :) 22:55:37 *** michi_cc [michi@00012723.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 22:55:48 *** michi_cc [~michi@00012723.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:55:51 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 22:57:06 *** kormer936 is now known as kormer 22:57:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: if i were to reduce german engines to "100 years of development in 10 engines", i'd start with: P8, S3/6, 01, E18, E94, V200, 103, 132/232, 151, ICE1, ICE3 (yes, german trains go up to eleven :p) 22:58:22 * andythenorth was just thinking 22:58:30 <andythenorth> balancing HEQS was never a problem 22:58:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that doesn't specify the design goals 22:58:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: only some vague idea 22:58:48 <andythenorth> yeah, you need p*kka back for that :) 22:58:54 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:58:58 <andythenorth> HEQS has _some_ silly pointless vehicles that could be cut 22:59:06 <andythenorth> but none of them use real names 22:59:25 <andythenorth> and HEQS doesn't try to represent a region or country or company 23:00:21 <frosch123> i guess if you would have to reduce it to a single engine, it would be 103 :p 23:00:45 <Eddi|zuHause> pretty much :p 23:01:47 <frosch123> anyway, i think 111 is missing in your list 23:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause> there's about two dozen missing in my list :p 23:02:29 <frosch123> i guess 111 should be there instead of 151 23:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause> which is why i won't try to mimic 10CC in CETS ;o 23:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the "problem" with the 111 is that it is in almost all in-game modeled properties inferior to the 103 23:03:27 <andythenorth> what would happen if you took the model numbers off? 23:03:39 <andythenorth> and used approximations for real locomotives 23:03:45 <andythenorth> that fit specific gameplay niches? 23:03:49 <andythenorth> can you get 10? 23:03:52 <frosch123> it would no longer be cets 23:03:56 <frosch123> but nuts 23:04:06 <frosch123> and nuts is already done 23:04:09 <Eddi|zuHause> pretty much ;) 23:04:19 <planetmaker> hihi :-) 23:04:33 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS and NUTS have very similar design principles 23:04:41 <Eddi|zuHause> except for the "realism" 23:05:15 <andythenorth> 10CC makes more sense combined 23:05:27 <andythenorth> so set A might be heavily biased to electric power 23:05:49 <andythenorth> set B under-powered, cheap engines to be combined in multiple 23:05:53 <planetmaker> how's that specific to 10CC as opposed to existing sets? 23:06:03 <andythenorth> it's not specific to 10CC 23:06:14 <andythenorth> it's just the context where 10CC makes sense 23:06:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: P8 is a quite nice alround engine to start with, E94 and 151 are nice (electric) freight engines, as is 132/232 (diesel), the other are mostly express engines 23:06:58 <andythenorth> planetmaker: btw, how many engines in OpenGFX + Trains? 23:07:18 <planetmaker> one, two more than in TTD 23:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to focus more on electrics, take out the S3/6 and put in the E16 instead 23:08:54 <andythenorth> planetmaker: when we played MP with OpenGFX + Trains, were we ever short of the right engine? 23:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> then you have P8, 01, V200 and 132/232 as non-electric 23:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause> E16, E18, 103, ICE1, ICE3 as express electric 23:09:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D5DA.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 23:09:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and E94, 151 as freight electric 23:09:31 <planetmaker> andythenorth, no. But that just proves that default engines are quite well-designed :D 23:09:42 <andythenorth> I count 9 conventional rail engines in that set :) 23:09:57 <andythenorth> in tropic 23:10:02 <Eddi|zuHause> but "focus on electric" might be better suited for a "swiss" set 23:10:09 <frosch123> andythenorth: that's silly. we play for 7 years 23:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> as they have almost exclusively electrics 23:10:25 <andythenorth> frosch123: playing for 7 years is silly? o_O 23:10:31 <andythenorth> I take the point 23:10:44 <andythenorth> but no-one is proposing rm-ing the existing big sets? 23:10:47 <frosch123> ofc there are not many engines within 7 years 23:10:49 <andythenorth> unless they break Bananas ToS 23:10:50 <andythenorth> :P 23:11:32 <frosch123> unless you play with daylength factor 38919 23:11:36 <andythenorth> he he 23:11:39 <andythenorth> daylength :P 23:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> before you introduce daylength, you should make autosave based on real-time instead of game time 23:13:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. "every 2/5/15 minutes" 23:13:33 <andythenorth> is that daylength thread still running? 23:13:34 <planetmaker> except when paused? 23:13:39 <andythenorth> I've gone snow blind to it :P 23:13:51 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: especially when paused 23:13:54 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i thought it should be based on number of user actions 23:14:40 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, "especially when paused" is something I explicitly would NOT want. 23:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you can do lots of things with build-while-paused 23:15:00 <frosch123> planetmaker: you need it when playing with build in pause mode 23:15:06 <planetmaker> It will overwrite all meaningful savegames over night with the same. So then there'll be nothing to go back to when something went wrong or malicious action taken 23:15:14 <frosch123> but you do not want to autosave when leaving the computer on its own in pause 23:15:16 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and also the scenario editor is "totally broken" because it has no autosave 23:15:25 <frosch123> so, the only sensible thing is to use "user action" 23:15:37 *** Yexo [~Yexo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 23:15:44 <frosch123> maybe coupling it with realtime 23:15:48 <planetmaker> hm. 23:15:52 <frosch123> like: every 5 minutes, unless nothing was done 23:15:55 <planetmaker> why did yexo go? 23:16:03 *** Yexo [~Yexo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 23:16:11 <andythenorth> see what you did? o_O 23:16:16 <andythenorth> summoned him 23:16:19 <frosch123> planetmaker: michi perfomed the same thing a while ago 23:16:21 <andythenorth> can you summon dalestan? 23:16:24 <frosch123> maybe something related to the bouncer 23:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause> server hiccup, i presume :) 23:16:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D020.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:17:02 <frosch123> don't worry, herzogdexter will return 23:17:20 <planetmaker> :-) 23:17:56 <frosch123> i was already used to herzogdexter disconnecting when getting used to reading logs in 2007 23:18:05 <planetmaker> :D 23:18:23 <frosch123> i think he never said anything in those 6 years 23:19:01 <LordAro> @seen herzogdexter 23:19:01 <DorpsGek> LordAro: herzogdexter was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 6 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 28 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <HerzogDeXtEr> Happy New Year 23:19:08 <andythenorth> bot? 23:19:10 <LordAro> ha :P 23:19:36 <frosch123> but seeing him disconnect makes me feel at home, or something like that :) 23:19:40 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: 10 bucks that this was an amsg :p 23:20:03 <planetmaker> amsg? 23:20:06 <LordAro> almost certainly, who else capitalises like that? :P 23:20:12 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 23:20:12 <LordAro> automated, i presume 23:20:43 <andythenorth> if I say 'express freight' in notes for a ship, and cargo doesn't use express class 23:20:43 <Eddi|zuHause> no, something that gets posted to all channels. 23:20:48 <andythenorth> are people going to whine? 23:21:03 <andythenorth> actually nvm 23:21:05 <frosch123> express freight for ships :p 23:21:07 <planetmaker> yes. They always whine 23:21:16 <andythenorth> this is true 23:21:19 <andythenorth> we all do it :P 23:21:26 <andythenorth> some whine and make grfs 23:21:31 <andythenorth> some whine and then whine more 23:21:54 <planetmaker> yup. like that :-) 23:21:55 <frosch123> can i get an express packet delivery with hovercraft? 23:22:03 <frosch123> does dhl offer something like that? 23:22:03 <andythenorth> yes 23:22:10 <andythenorth> Goods 23:22:12 <andythenorth> Food 23:22:16 <andythenorth> Petrol 23:22:22 <andythenorth> you can order petrol by mail, right? 23:22:25 <planetmaker> maybe here: http://www.hurtigruten.no/Norge/ 23:22:47 <andythenorth> http://www.petroldirect.com 23:22:49 <frosch123> they have hovercraft? 23:23:03 <planetmaker> hm... catemeran at least 23:23:09 <frosch123> can hovercraft climb norwegian mountains? 23:23:16 <planetmaker> :D 23:23:22 <planetmaker> I doubt that 23:23:34 <frosch123> do hovercraft work in low pressure environments? 23:23:39 <frosch123> like mount everest? 23:23:48 <andythenorth> http://www.petroldirect.com/order.htm 23:23:52 *** wojteks86 [5db0e60d@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 23:23:54 <frosch123> or do they not have enough propulsion? 23:23:56 <wojteks86> hi guys 23:24:07 <andythenorth> http://www.petroldirect.com/about-us.htm 23:24:13 <wojteks86> can someone please tell me what exactly is "Sling" in AV8 NewGRF? 23:24:24 <planetmaker> not sure, frosch123 :-) 23:25:16 <frosch123> hmm, i did not know that diesel was colour coded 23:25:21 <Eddi|zuHause> wojteks86: context? 23:25:34 <wojteks86> no idea, I dont use that set 23:25:43 <planetmaker> colour and smell-coded 23:25:46 <andythenorth> wojteks86: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/598Tmq8SeA0/0.jpg 23:25:50 <wojteks86> it just says Sling with no other words 23:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> "sling" is usually something that you throw stones with 23:26:01 <andythenorth> see the wires to the cat underneath? 23:26:06 <andythenorth> wires / ropes / lines 23:26:10 <wojteks86> yep 23:26:23 <andythenorth> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_OfiWlLNBji4/S1BNBmoKHYI/AAAAAAAAD-4/LUQ_ti5xYPo/s400/Chopper1.jpg 23:26:28 <andythenorth> it's that 23:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: red diesel is for heating and green diesel is for fuel 23:26:54 <wojteks86> thank you, but it may actually have something to do with aircraft colouring? 23:26:56 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: has to do with taxes 23:27:12 <wojteks86> (Company Coloured, Sling) 23:27:35 <andythenorth> it's a refit 23:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> wojteks86: that is a "cargo subtype" for refitting 23:27:42 <wojteks86> others are for example (Company Coloured, No tip tanks 23:27:43 <wojteks86> ) 23:27:52 <wojteks86> hmm ok :D 23:28:03 <wojteks86> glad someone used that set 23:28:11 <wojteks86> planes are not my cop of tea 23:28:12 <andythenorth> I asked p*kka to include that feature :) 23:28:13 <Eddi|zuHause> wojteks86: those have nothing to do with each other 23:28:15 <wojteks86> cup* 23:28:32 <wojteks86> Eddi, got it now ;) 23:28:36 <wojteks86> thanks! 23:29:03 <wojteks86> sorry, but this will be my 3rd translation today and I need a break :D 23:29:54 <andythenorth> bed time 23:29:55 <andythenorth> bye 23:29:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:30:01 <wojteks86> bye 23:31:17 *** chester_ [~chester@95-26-101-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:37:38 <frosch123> night 23:37:42 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4277.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:49 <wojteks86> nite 23:37:53 *** wojteks86 [5db0e60d@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> bite 23:43:41 <Eddi|zuHause> (i don't think i did this the right way) 23:45:46 *** Extrems [borgs@24.157.137.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:43 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:54:55 *** Extrems [borgs@24.157.137.219] has joined #openttd 23:58:01 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-168-176.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]