Config
Log for #openttd on 23rd February 2013:
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00:03:34  <andythenorth> is it harsh that I'm just deleting broken strings in translations?
00:03:55  <Supercheese> "deleting" when the revision history is saved isn't really "deleting"
00:03:57  <Supercheese> ;)
00:05:37  <andythenorth> k
00:07:04  <andythenorth> done
00:12:09  <andythenorth> bedtime
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00:35:43  <Eddi|zuHause> don't put thoughts like that into andy's head :p
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01:03:05  <Terkhen> good night
02:07:34  <Wolf01> 'night
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05:07:56  *** mode/#openttd [+v peter1138] by ChanServ
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05:31:07  <Pikka> innit though
05:46:04  <Pikka> does anyone else have any ideas about http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5473 ?  Is the pattern I'm hearing due to a bug, or something else?
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06:13:33  <Supercheese> you could check the source code, if you haven't already
06:21:39  <Supercheese> Vehicle.cpp lines 895-899 seem relevant
06:28:23  <Supercheese> I can't immediately see anything that would lead to the pattern described
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07:59:59  <Pikka> I blame peter1138, naturally
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08:56:27  <Terkhen> good morning
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09:14:18  <andythenorth> bonsoir
09:14:26  <andythenorth> time for baby minding
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09:14:35  <Supercheese> Well, that was quick
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09:56:50  <peter1138> what
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10:14:58  <DDR> Hey, guys, quickie question:
10:15:00  <DDR> Does anyone know of an editor that lets you have duplicates of an area, so that when you edit one instance of the area you edit them all?
10:21:16  <Supercheese> Sort of like search & replace in all/opened files?
10:21:32  <Supercheese> Or more of a side-by-side/tiled approach?
10:21:46  <Supercheese> Notepad++ can do side-by-side I think
10:22:59  <Supercheese> anyway, good night
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10:45:39  <Wolf01> hi o/
10:53:07  <Wolf01> http://www.flickr.com/photos/34338074@N06/8486483945/ whoa, I had to check the bigger picture to figure out these engines are made out of lego
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11:04:24  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
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11:34:54  <DDR> I actually meant graphically, like, for a .png or something. :P
11:35:29  <DDR> Not even inter-file, just within itself. I think it'd be useful for testing if my tiles... tile.
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11:47:58  <jonty-comp> i think the GRFMaker pixel editor used to do that
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11:54:23  <peter1138> meant but didn't specify :p
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12:03:13  <Alberth> o/
12:03:37  <andythenorth> hi Alberth
12:04:59  <Terkhen> hi Alberth  and andythenorth
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12:08:22  <WOOHOO> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GML6KS1Gg4
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12:12:23  <jonty-comp> WOOHOO!
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12:28:27  <andythenorth> pikka o/
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12:40:25  <Pikka> where?
12:40:34  <andythenorth> over there
12:40:36  <andythenorth> on the stair
12:41:01  <Pikka> how rare
12:42:11  <Pikka> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-23/bus-crashes-into-brisbane-indian-restaurant/4535978 whoops
12:42:45  <andythenorth> mmm
12:42:46  <andythenorth> curry
12:42:59  <andythenorth> Pikka: you were driving? o_O
12:43:21  <Pikka> I never did anything that bad
12:44:42  <Pikka> worst thing I ever did was run into a stationary van full of coppers, while my trainer was a passenger on the bus :D
12:44:52  <andythenorth> oops :)
12:46:25  <andythenorth> Alberth: what credit line do you want on the footer of Web Translator?
12:46:34  <andythenorth> You?
12:46:37  <andythenorth> OpenTTD?
12:46:41  <andythenorth> OpenTTD Coop?
12:47:01  <Pikka> and trap a little girl's head between the back door and the ticket machine, but that was a design flaw in the bus. :)
12:47:01  <andythenorth> An OpenTTD project?
12:47:40  <Alberth> no idea, really. Currently it's newgrf translations only
12:48:11  <andythenorth> we are coop yes?
12:48:26  <Alberth> if you credit me, you should credit yourself too :)
12:48:33  <Alberth> coop is fine for me
12:48:35  <Pikka> coop :o
12:48:42  <andythenorth> chickens
12:48:55  <Pikka> nobody here but us
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12:50:02  <Alberth> not any more :)
12:50:27  <andythenorth> should I make newgrfs?
12:51:20  <Pikka> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-23/train-passengers-trapped-in-wild-weather-for-17-hours/4535814
12:51:29  <Pikka> newdisasters
12:51:45  <Pikka> landslides and curry houses
12:51:53  <frosch123> wild weather.. pff
12:52:07  <frosch123> that's neither freezing cold, not > 40°C
12:52:18  <frosch123> db is far better with such situations
12:52:54  <andythenorth> spose I could add random ship graphics
12:52:57  <andythenorth> that needs doing :P
12:53:08  * Rubidium remembers those sauna ICEs
12:53:21  <Rubidium> apparantly people didn't like it
12:53:29  <frosch123> yeah, they collapsed
12:53:41  <frosch123> or tried to smash the windows at > 180 km/h and such :)
12:54:54  <Pikka> frosch: temperature is neither here nor there when you have 130km/h winds and a metre of rain in a day :)
12:55:20  <fonsinchen> What formula should I use to calculate the expected run time of a link graph job in ticks?
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12:55:44  <frosch123> hmm, what's the current version of heqs?
12:56:11  <fonsinchen> 2^#nodes / big_static_number + other_static_number in theory
12:56:11  <Rubidium> frosch123: how about "latest" or "nice"?
12:56:42  <Pikka> "current" is good too
12:56:55  <frosch123> "most recent" according to topic
12:57:31  <andythenorth> frosch123: the one on Bananaananananaaa
12:57:32  <andythenorth> s
12:57:43  <Rubidium> fonsinchen: I'm not sure how well estimations would actually go; in fast forward they take more ticks, if it is a single core single thread CPU they take more ticks as well
12:57:53  <andythenorth> repo says HEQS 1.5.5
12:57:55  <andythenorth> 1.5.1
12:57:57  <andythenorth> oops
12:58:13  <andythenorth> that's over 12 months old :(
12:58:16  <Rubidium> fonsinchen: then there's also the issues with memory/cpu caches
12:58:17  <andythenorth> HEQS is dying!
12:58:42  <Rubidium> actually, if the repository is mercurial... then the most recent version is never a tagged version
12:58:48  <Pikka> too much bad rendering
12:58:54  <frosch123> ah, right.. i rememeber deleting my bananas folder
12:58:58  <frosch123> that's why i only have 1.2 :p
12:59:23  <andythenorth> old
12:59:29  <andythenorth> probly rubbish
12:59:39  <fonsinchen> Well, currently it's just "whatever you set as recalc_interval". That is about the worst estimation you can get.
12:59:41  <frosch123> it greeted me with a lot of "grf is broken" messages :)
12:59:57  <frosch123> so i wondered whether i broke something, or whether i just used the wrong version :)
13:01:33  <fonsinchen> But maybe I should keep it static after all. Like this I can just say "increase the interval" to anyone who runs into problems. Finding a working formula is probably very hard.
13:02:57  <fonsinchen> Has anyone ever had problems with the standard 16 days interval, btw? I remember that one guy who was playing the Cindini map with tons and tons of stations.
13:08:02  <Rubidium> fonsinchen: maybe, in single player without fast forward and pausing, you could detect that the recalc interval is overrun regularly and then suggest to increase the recalc time with some explanations of the repercussions
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13:33:29  <fonsinchen> I'll stick to the configurable interval with default 16 days for now. The extra overrun detection can be done later.
13:33:46  <michi_cc> andy, andy, andy... ;)
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15:11:00  <Trainz> hi
15:14:51  <Alberth> hi
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15:40:17  <CAN>  I finally get a working version of openttd to my Nokia Phone it's a version named r15770. I would like to connect it with my PC for online gaming but i'm having trouble to find a pc version of openttd r15770 ,anyone any idea where can i get it?
15:41:02  <frosch123> from svn
15:41:33  <frosch123> i doubt anyone has a 4 year old random nightly around
15:41:45  <frosch123> so you have to checkout that specific version from the source repository
15:41:48  <frosch123> and compile it yourself
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15:50:19  <CAN> what is svn?
15:51:39  <Alberth> a version control system, keeping all 25036 versions that existed
15:51:49  <Alberth> look for "subversion"
15:54:10  <Alberth> andy, you didn't add static files yet?
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16:02:36  <andythenorth> Alberth: not yet
16:02:43  <andythenorth> been trying to buy a car :P
16:02:51  <Alberth> :o
16:03:40  <frosch123> don't go for a crawler or rail vehicle, they are quite slow
16:04:14  <andythenorth> buying cars is....cold
16:04:22  <andythenorth> at least in February
16:04:41  <wojteks86> what car are you after?
16:04:50  <andythenorth> a big one
16:04:55  <Alberth> yeah, but since many people think that way, you can get a good bargain :)
16:04:57  <frosch123> likely a 10 truck-consist
16:05:01  <andythenorth> we have car seat problems
16:05:05  <andythenorth> car seats are big
16:05:28  <andythenorth> right, let's make some web translator
16:05:49  <wojteks86> any updates? been there today and no new strings for me :D
16:06:15  <frosch123> web translator != web translator :)
16:07:09  <wojteks86> I know what != is, but I dont understand you :P
16:07:36  <Alberth> wojteks86: if you're bored, translate the tutorial GS :)
16:08:00  <Alberth> not sure you can actually use that, perhaps check that first :)
16:08:31  <frosch123> english is a context sensitive language. if albert talks with andy about webtranslators, it's not wt3 which ottd-translators know :)
16:08:52  <wojteks86> yes, I would have to read the whole tutorial first, then try to translate :) but OK, where do I find the strings? or is it on the wiki?
16:09:12  <wojteks86> thanks frosch
16:09:28  <Alberth> wojteks86: I meant I am not sure you can use polish strings in a GS
16:09:38  <wojteks86> I see
16:09:55  <Alberth> strings are in the tar file, I think
16:09:56  <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=57624 <- i don't know whether zuu is looking for translations
16:11:08  <Alberth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial  is the project page of the tutorial
16:11:10  <wojteks86> yep, there is no Polish translation yet
16:11:31  <wojteks86> been there, but was trying to go alphabetically through all the GRFs
16:11:38  <frosch123> :o
16:11:46  <Alberth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/show/lang  there is a german version
16:11:47  <andythenorth> Alberth: I'm not sure where to put the static declarations.  Is there some kind of main class or dispatcher?
16:11:48  <wojteks86> so I did av8, then firs and few others
16:12:40  <Alberth> andythenorth: main.py is the main entry point
16:12:52  <Alberth> I import all page/* files there
16:16:45  <wojteks86> are you guys doing some work in c++ for OTTD? I have a question about window positioning
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16:23:05  <Alberth> is /me working in c++ for OTTD a pre-condition for asking your question?
16:23:52  <Alberth> in that case, you're out of luck, I am reporting a bug at the moment, and then I'll do some Python program fixing
16:23:56  <wojteks86> probably yes, because it is related to the OTTD code, not generally c++
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16:24:08  <Alberth> but otherwise, just ask the question :)
16:24:25  <wojteks86> I must stop asking pre-questions... :P
16:25:06  <Alberth> that may help :)
16:25:07  <wojteks86> do you know how the window positioning works in OTTD? there are 4 cases: auto, manual, allign to toolbar and some other which I dont remember
16:25:37  <wojteks86> whatever I set in the code, seems to be ignored for windows but gui
16:26:14  <wojteks86> that means - if I change something from auto to allign to toolbar - it will work just as it did before the change
16:27:14  <Alberth> I suspect there are other conditions that must hold as well
16:27:46  <wojteks86> there are other attributes
16:28:04  <Alberth> toolbar alignment is typically done for direct child windows, but I don't know whether that is a requirement
16:28:39  <wojteks86> right, so how about manual?
16:29:03  <wojteks86> right after the position, there are x & y
16:29:20  <wojteks86> whatever they are (even 0,0 ) doesnt make any difference to the new window position
16:29:51  * Alberth looks for the source code
16:31:23  <wojteks86> check orders_gui.cpp for example
16:31:38  <wojteks86> WDP_AUTO
16:31:58  <Alberth> LocalGetWindowPlacement  in windows.cpp does the magic (around line 1460)
16:34:25  <wojteks86> well, that was quick...
16:34:54  <Alberth> I know my way in the gui system, I rewrote most of it :)
16:35:23  <wojteks86> must have been a lot of work...
16:35:30  <wojteks86> if a lot is enough?
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16:36:11  <Alberth> the orders gui has a WC_VEHICLE_VIEW parent it seems, so I would expect it takes the "if" above the "switch", ie it never even looks at the auto-thingie
16:36:27  <Alberth> you should check that with a debugger or so,
16:36:44  <andythenorth> Alberth: pull eints ;)
16:36:48  <wojteks86> right
16:36:59  <andythenorth> I have a new colour scheme
16:37:08  <Alberth> \o/
16:37:12  <Alberth> let's see :)
16:38:21  <Alberth> hmm, very RED :)
16:38:34  <andythenorth> like it? :)
16:40:20  <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/eints_red_projects_page.png  <-- wojteks86, good colour for a web translator? :)
16:41:09  <wojteks86> I speak for myself - my eyes would pop out after w hile
16:41:43  <Alberth> I think you picked a wrong career andy, you should have become a fireman :)
16:41:49  <wojteks86> pale dark yellow would be fine
16:42:04  <wojteks86> :D
16:42:10  <andythenorth> Alberth: pull again :P
16:43:17  <Alberth> much better :)
16:43:47  <andythenorth> hmm
16:43:53  <andythenorth> got some problem finding site root
16:43:56  <frosch123> let me guess... black on black?
16:43:57  <andythenorth> in my static route
16:44:07  <andythenorth> Alberth: try going to some project
16:44:17  <andythenorth> there will be 404s for the static assets
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16:44:56  <andythenorth> ah, found the solution
16:45:01  <Alberth> WDP_AUTO, 384, 100  <-- wojteks86 those numbers are default window size, they are not position
16:46:04  <wojteks86> I know, but I referred to another window using WDP_ other than auto and these values were set to 0 0 so I thought this may have something to do with it
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16:51:22  <andythenorth> Alberth: need to use get_url, but can't get it to import http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9505256/static-files-not-loaded-in-a-bottle-application-when-the-trailing-slash-is-omitt
16:51:31  <andythenorth> ImportError: cannot import name get_url
16:52:36  <andythenorth> it is defined in bottle.py, so I am puzzled
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16:53:53  <Alberth> there is a lenghty discussion about this in the manual,  bla and bla/ are different things according to the official definition
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16:54:14  <andythenorth> yes
16:54:23  <andythenorth> that would be uncontroversial
16:54:43  <andythenorth> what's puzzling is why I can't import get_url
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16:57:06  <tracerpt> gd afternoon all
16:57:28  <Alberth> andythenorth:   @Shawn: You should either supply it as a template argument (get_url=get_url in the call to template)  <-- that comment?
16:57:37  <andythenorth> nah
16:57:45  <andythenorth> just importing to a class fails
16:57:49  <andythenorth> I don't get as far as template
16:58:02  <andythenorth> I'll paste
16:58:30  <andythenorth> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Y96SJkaf
16:58:33  <andythenorth> I cargo culted that
16:58:44  <andythenorth> ImportError: cannot import name get_url
16:59:02  <andythenorth> yet it's right there on l649 of bottle.py
16:59:14  <andythenorth> ho ho
16:59:23  <andythenorth> how long has '**kargs" been valid python :o
16:59:41  <andythenorth> that's new
17:00:19  <Alberth> url       = make_default_app_wrapper('get_url')  <-- it's called 'url' at global level, it seems
17:00:35  <Alberth> **args?  a long time, I think
17:00:49  <andythenorth> url imports ok
17:01:02  <Alberth> but does it work? :)
17:02:34  <andythenorth> nope
17:02:45  <andythenorth> can't figure out how to expose it
17:07:40  <andythenorth> hmm
17:07:43  <andythenorth> might be onto something
17:08:48  <andythenorth> how intreseting
17:09:47  <Alberth> @route('/static/<filename:path>')
17:09:47  <Alberth> def send_static(filename):
17:09:47  <Alberth>     return static_file(filename, root='static/files')
17:10:27  <andythenorth> I've solved it by importing url to main_template.tpl
17:10:35  <andythenorth> didn't know I could import directly to templates :)
17:11:36  <Alberth> my solution looks wrong, tbh
17:12:34  <Alberth> very nice :)
17:13:27  <Alberth> b/webtranslate/static.py  <-- seems to import a bit too much? :)
17:14:44  <andythenorth> probably
17:15:22  <andythenorth> stripped
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17:20:35  * Alberth time for dinner
17:20:43  <wojteks86> enjoy
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17:54:41  <andythenorth> Alberth: pull ;)
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18:01:26  <Kjetil> push!
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19:06:00  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25037 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2013-02-23 18:15:54 UTC)
19:06:01  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5480]: green path signals would be shown when building them 'under' a train, and they would keep showing green until they were passed again
19:08:13  <__ln__> a grocery nearby me is selling norwegian salmon filet, and they've labeled all the packages with a label saying "does not contain horse meat"
19:10:50  <Alberth> so you've asked about mad cow disease, right?
19:10:58  <Psyk> I like horses! In sausages for example...
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19:11:52  <Alberth> you need a LOT of sauce to put a horse in it!
19:12:27  <Rubidium> how can they be sure? maybe the fish were fed horses in some way
19:13:56  <frosch123> Psyk: put a big label on them "contains horse meat"
19:14:28  <__ln__> btw, the same grocery sells horse meat.
19:15:50  <frosch123> ah, so there are two big arrows just after the entry? "horse stuff left, everything else right"?
19:18:30  <__ln__> more like they're making fun of the whole issue by labeling the fish
19:19:08  <Rubidium> not "free range 'beef' left", "bio industry beef right"?
19:20:00  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25038 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2013-02-23 18:29:55 UTC)
19:20:01  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5479]: minimise gaps feature caused removal to only happen at the signal build interval instead of the implicit interval of 1
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19:25:38  <tracerpt> lol psyk
19:25:48  <tracerpt> i want a lasagna from findus :(
19:26:00  <tracerpt> always wanted to own a share of a racing horse :|
19:26:04  <frosch123> cat lasagna?
19:26:54  <frosch123> hmm, i think cat meat in lasagna would be quite entertaining
19:27:08  <frosch123> where can i start such business?
19:27:19  <Psyk> its said, that cat meat is a bit sweet...
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19:35:39  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25039 /trunk/src/lang (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-23 18:45:28 UTC)
19:35:40  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:35:41  <DorpsGek> english_US - 3 changes by Rubidium
19:35:42  <DorpsGek> korean - 6 changes by telk5093
19:35:43  <DorpsGek> russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
19:35:44  <DorpsGek> gaelic - 334 changes by GunChleoc
19:35:45  <DorpsGek> swedish - 2 changes by Joel_A
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19:51:36  <tracerpt> how long have u guys been working on TTD mods?
19:52:26  <Rubidium> does "too" count?
19:55:34  <tracerpt> too?
19:56:09  * Alberth likes the nav bar
19:59:09  <andythenorth> fixing some forms
20:00:21  <andythenorth> Alberth: would be really useful to figure out how to automatically reload classes / templates ;)
20:00:31  <andythenorth> writing html + css is very slow with restart for every change :)
20:01:53  <Alberth> http://bottlepy.org/docs/stable/tutorial.html#auto-reloading   ???
20:05:03  <andythenorth> I added that to main.py
20:05:04  <andythenorth>     bottle.run(reloader=True, host='localhost', port=8000)
20:05:10  <andythenorth> doesn't seem to reload templates
20:05:29  <andythenorth> ah
20:05:35  <andythenorth> debug mode should do template reloading
20:06:49  <andythenorth> works
20:06:58  <Alberth> we already do that, don't we?
20:08:07  <andythenorth> seems not :)
20:08:07  <andythenorth> I just pushed it
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20:14:12  <Alberth> please pull
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20:45:38  <andythenorth> Alberth: what changed in upload_lang?
20:45:47  <andythenorth> I made lots of styling changes there :)
20:45:50  <andythenorth> need to merge
20:46:13  <Alberth> removed  <label for="is_existing">Language already exists in the project:</label> <input type="checkbox" name="is_existing" id="is_existing" /><br />
20:46:48  <Alberth> as it was not used :)
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20:50:09  <andythenorth> hmm
20:50:10  <andythenorth> merge hassles
20:51:46  <andythenorth> oops
20:51:51  <andythenorth> hg up --clean is bad
20:52:06  <andythenorth> oh well, I'll just rewrite all that code again :)
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20:54:19  <Alberth> always do a  "hg diff > my.patch" first before doing anything dangerous :)
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20:55:21  <andythenorth> I love distributed vcs :P
20:57:19  <jonty-comp> aww, there's nothing in NARS in 1927 to carry livestock
21:04:51  <Superuser> #openttd - what is YOUR favourite Linux text editor? No Emacs or Vim allowed! (looking for a good *modern* text editor)
21:05:33  <__ln__> eFTE... modern, umm, well, for some values of modern.
21:05:44  <peter1138> erm, vim
21:05:47  <jonty-comp> clearly nano
21:05:50  <Superuser> must have CUA
21:05:54  <Alberth> Superuser: just try a few
21:05:59  <Superuser> and code folding (so gedit is out)
21:06:10  <__ln__> what's CUA?
21:06:18  <Superuser> Common User Access, have you never used Emacs?
21:06:19  <Alberth> CIA with a U
21:06:24  <__ln__> rarely
21:06:26  <Superuser> I'm just tired of emacs' 1980s BS
21:06:31  <Superuser> same goes for Vim
21:06:44  <peter1138> you need a mouse eh?
21:06:52  <Superuser> anyone know good graphical text editors? Everyone loves nano ofc (me included)
21:06:58  <jonty-comp> if i am doing proper development of anything i use sublime text 2
21:06:59  <jonty-comp> that's awesome
21:07:00  <Superuser> but I need something more advanced, with code folding etc
21:07:24  <peter1138> i use vim, vim or vim
21:07:25  <__ln__> Superuser: see eFTE.
21:07:28  <Superuser> You know I've heard amazing things about that, but the price seems a bit steep for a development tool. If it was a compiler it would be justified, but...
21:07:38  <jonty-comp> oh, i didn't pay for it :P
21:07:51  <jonty-comp> the 'evaluation' is fully featured and has no time limit
21:08:00  <jonty-comp> it just pops up when you save every ~5 times
21:08:16  <Superuser> rotfl really?
21:08:25  <Superuser> well that's silly
21:08:29  <jonty-comp> oh, sublime text 3 is in beta :o
21:08:36  <Superuser> thanks __ln__, I'll check it out
21:08:51  <Superuser> looks pretty good, X11 interface so should be fast
21:14:47  <frosch123> during kde3 times i used kate
21:14:58  <frosch123> which had code folding though i never liked such a thing
21:15:28  <Superuser> Kate is a brilliant editor
21:15:33  <frosch123> at the beginning of kde4 every application including kate turned into a hitting-a-wrong-key-crashes-it-all thing
21:15:36  <Superuser> (only ever used kde4)
21:15:44  * ToBeFree loves Kate, just saying
21:15:45  <frosch123> no idea at what state kde4 is nowadays
21:15:50  <frosch123> but since then i have been using geany
21:16:01  <Superuser> But the first time I tried it was at v4.6 (first time I tried Linux seriously, too!), so I missed the KDE4 fiasco
21:16:03  <frosch123> it has no code folding at my side, but maybe i disabled it :p
21:16:24  <Superuser> the best DE after Unity, easily
21:16:31  <jonty-comp> :(
21:16:53  <Superuser> Unity's HUD is a killer app for me, plus I like the idea of 1 thing on the screen at a time
21:17:02  <Superuser> for some reason I can't use GNOME Shell to save my life, lol
21:17:14  <jonty-comp> i enjoyed gnome shell on my old tablet PC
21:17:26  <jonty-comp> unity makes baby jesus cry
21:17:39  <Superuser> only ever used it on the desktop
21:17:42  <jonty-comp> that said, i plan on installing ubuntu on my tablet when they eventually make it work properly
21:17:44  <Superuser> what do you use jonty-comp
21:17:56  <jonty-comp> on my desktop? windows :P
21:18:02  <Superuser> rotfl
21:18:06  <Superuser> get outta here
21:18:18  <jonty-comp> i'm allowed to though, i run 15 debian servers
21:18:31  <Superuser> needs moar desktop linux
21:18:32  <jonty-comp> and an office of windows/mac workstations
21:18:41  <Superuser> also Debian sucks, so out of date
21:18:47  <jonty-comp> we used to have one desktop linux pc that was a crappy old tower that we had nothing else to do with
21:18:51  <jonty-comp> but nobody other than me used it
21:19:00  <jonty-comp> so i threw it out and put two old powermacs there instead
21:19:05  <jonty-comp> at least people can use photoshop on them
21:19:09  <Superuser> freedom hater :P
21:19:29  <jonty-comp> i will use linux on desktop when someone invents a DE that doesn't make me want to kill baby gerbils
21:19:45  <Superuser> KDE + Unity, go!
21:20:04  <jonty-comp> next ubuntu on my desktop will probably be xfcebunto
21:20:06  <jonty-comp> *u
21:20:07  <andythenorth> powermacs are so dead :)
21:20:09  <Superuser> I actually removed the Windows partition for good 2 days ago
21:20:16  <Superuser> never been happier :)
21:20:32  <jonty-comp> andythenorth: but they look like Mac Pros, so they impress people that come in the office
21:20:38  <andythenorth> :P
21:20:39  <jonty-comp> so long as they don't actually *use* them
21:20:48  <Superuser> Xfce sucks donkey penis http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/comparison-of-linux-desktops-opengl.html
21:20:54  <jonty-comp> then they'll realise that they're huge, loud, power-hogging piles of shite
21:21:30  <Superuser> lol your workplace sounds awesome
21:21:44  <jonty-comp> we have two brand-new iMacs too, they're somewhat nicer
21:22:26  <jonty-comp> actually, i haven't used E17 for a long time, i should try that out again
21:24:13  <Superuser> E17 is dickballs
21:24:20  <Superuser> it crashed X ffs
21:24:25  <Superuser> never used it since
21:24:30  <Alberth> opengl for desktops is insane
21:24:31  <Superuser> that was 1.5 years ago
21:24:44  <Superuser> probably not much better now, even though it's out of alpha
21:25:58  <peter1138> it works but doesn't fit in with anything
21:26:08  <Superuser> hey who was the guy who recommended eFTE?
21:26:21  <__ln__> who, me?
21:26:30  <Superuser> this thing doesn't support Unicode
21:26:44  <__ln__> aren't you in england?
21:26:54  <peter1138> £
21:26:55  <Superuser> does that mean I'm British?
21:26:57  <__ln__> besides, i said: 22:15 < __ln__> eFTE... modern, umm, well, for some values of modern.
21:27:19  <Superuser> 45% of London classified itself as White British
21:27:21  <Superuser> disgusting
21:27:24  <jonty-comp> peter1138: for political correctness you must now use €
21:27:25  <Superuser> Which is why I'm leaving
21:27:38  <Superuser> not living in London though
21:27:44  <peter1138> why is that disgusting?
21:27:46  <Superuser> that figure is from the 2012 census btw
21:27:51  <__ln__> they can't classify themselves as black british if they're white, can they?
21:27:59  <Superuser> because the majority of them don't fit in, they are black or muslim
21:28:11  <Superuser> no, it's illegal to lie on it
21:28:11  <jonty-comp> actually, i should install ubuntu on this desktop
21:28:17  <jonty-comp> it would be most useful
21:28:23  <__ln__> let me correct myself: *african american british
21:28:28  <jonty-comp> but do I do it in virtualbox or as a partition?
21:28:43  <peter1138> don't install ubuntu
21:28:45  <peter1138> much simpler
21:28:51  <Psyk> install mint!
21:28:53  <Superuser> Americans of course don't understand the issue of the Ageing of Europe, they've always been in a multicultural country (where multiculturalism doesn't work)
21:29:31  <peter1138> the issue of what?
21:29:33  <__ln__> Superuser: who needs Unicode, 8-bit charsets ought to be enough for anyone.
21:29:54  <Superuser> people who use non-Latin characters in their folder names, for one
21:30:05  <Superuser> they don't come up
21:30:11  <__ln__> non-Latin doesn't necessarily imply Unicode.
21:30:42  <__ln__> but I agree, the lack of Unicode support is eFTE's greatest disadvantage.
21:31:30  <Rubidium> Superuser: I reckon you use non Latin characters in folder names as well
21:31:43  <Rubidium> starting with the "u"
21:32:05  <Superuser> x---D
21:32:08  <Superuser> non-ASCII then
21:33:00  <__ln__> i don't think eFTE has a problem with non-ASCII per se, it just doesn't handle UTF-8.
21:33:46  <frosch123> can it handle "§" ?
21:33:58  <frosch123> or does it crash like the average dos application?
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21:35:28  <__ln__> crashing dos apps with § is news to me
21:36:03  <frosch123> it's because in the dos codepage § was a character < 32
21:36:10  <frosch123> i.e. technically not ascii, but a control char
21:36:28  <frosch123> most applications did not expect that there are keyboards which allow entering such things
21:36:34  <__ln__> oh
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21:36:52  <Alberth> your keyboard does not allow \n ? :)
21:37:06  <frosch123> only \r
21:37:13  <frosch123> and \t
21:37:35  <peter1138> and ^A, ^B, ^C...
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22:36:35  <glx> <jonty-comp> but do I do it in virtualbox or as a partition? <-- latest ubuntu is dead slow in virtual box
22:41:45  <jonty-comp> oh
22:41:54  <jonty-comp> good job i started installing it on a partition then
22:42:04  <jonty-comp> i can load the physical device up in virtualbox if i want to anyway
22:42:07  <jonty-comp> unless they broke that
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23:12:29  <jonty-comp> i have to admit, ubuntu + unity has gotten a lot better since the last time i used it
23:12:38  <jonty-comp> i still hate the default window decorations though
23:12:51  <jonty-comp> at least the whole UI isn't overpoweringly purple any more
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23:40:32  <jonty-comp> so many package updates

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