Config
Log for #openttd on 19th March 2013:
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05:18:39  <Bonez305> Hello
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07:32:57  <Ammler> Good morning :-)
07:33:06  <Ammler> topic still has RC2, btw.
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07:39:03  <Bonez305> can anyone assist me in setting up a server on linux ?
07:41:21  <Bonez305> no ? :(
07:43:28  <__ln__> a better approach is to tell what you have done so far, and what has been the problem.
07:43:50  <__ln__> also there shall be no space in front of the questionmark in english orthography.
07:44:15  <Bonez305> <--not too good with grammar
07:44:55  <Bonez305> Can we just say I have not done anything?
07:45:21  <Bonez305> I was able to get the server running but it was version 1.0.4 i believe.
07:49:21  <__ln__> i think there's some generic linux binary available for download.
07:49:30  <__ln__> at openttd.org.
07:57:41  <Bonez305> Think is i would need some kind of step-by-step, all new to linux period.
07:57:48  <Bonez305> Thing*
08:08:43  <V453000> a person just autoreplaced all of his wagons to brake vans on our server ......
08:08:52  <V453000> :D
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08:14:44  <peter1138> :D
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08:21:26  <peter1138> god i hate our audio mixing code
08:21:29  <peter1138> it's so... cruddy
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08:53:07  <CornishPasty> I blame you, peter1138
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10:40:27  <TheCoach> Hello
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11:06:56  <planetmaker> hi
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11:11:13  <Celestar> gday :)
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11:51:54  <TheCoach> I'm making a new scenario
11:52:00  <TheCoach> real world based and all
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11:55:25  <TheCoach> Currently i'm assemblign the list of newgrfs to use with it
11:55:34  <TheCoach> i'm looking for a good trolleybus set
11:55:41  <TheCoach> this is prettymuch an essential thing
11:57:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never even considered using a trolleybus set, let alone searched for whether one exists
11:58:25  <TheCoach> I'll have to dig trough all those bananas myself then
11:59:03  <TheCoach> i cannot skip this because uin reality at least half the major cities in the region i'm covering have trolleybus systems
11:59:14  <TheCoach> so i cannot just exclude that
12:00:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i presume everyone considering creating a trolleybus set is waiting for newgrf-roadtypes
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12:03:12  <TheCoach> probably
12:03:57  <planetmaker> trolley bus... a bus which is attached to overhead electricity?
12:04:50  <planetmaker> not sure they exist really
12:05:04  <planetmaker> within OpenTTD
12:07:37  <TheCoach> there's a set but i won't use it
12:07:47  <TheCoach> it's kind of a hackjob and replaces lightrail tracks
12:08:33  <TheCoach> i'd be ok with it if it had decent looking trolleybusses but the horizontal views are drawn wrongly and it makes them look very bad so there goes this option
12:11:04  <TheCoach> I need to recode my trainset one of these days
12:11:18  <TheCoach> the artwork for it still looks rather neat but the way it's coded is just bad
12:11:38  <V453000> planetmaker: there is a trolleybus newGRF, they replace trams
12:12:04  <TheCoach> too bad I don't know anything about grf coding and all that i did was done trough grf maker
12:12:34  <planetmaker> it can be learnt ;-)
12:12:48  <planetmaker> no-one knew from the age they were born :D
12:13:47  <Eddi|zuHause> TheCoach: you might want to go through the NML tutorial then
12:14:07  <V453000> and *some* also have the talent to screw everything up, *they* still reach some results :P
12:15:02  <TheCoach> I'll have to take a look at NML because the hex editing business in traditional nfo coding just always made my head spin
12:16:28  <planetmaker> hm, did we ever try the Korean NewGRFs, V453000 ?
12:17:05  <TheCoach> NML looks like C, I understand C, this might actually work
12:21:50  <TheCoach> so basically what the problem with my set is
12:22:06  <TheCoach> is that while it's balanced as i want it to be and all the attributes for everythign are fine
12:22:23  <TheCoach> i didn't know how to make articulated engines in grf maker
12:23:06  <TheCoach> so you've got 2M62, it's a douyble configuration of M62 and ideally you'd just buy the engine and get both units in the proper arrangement
12:23:31  <TheCoach> Now since I am dumb, in my set you frist buy unit A and then buy unit B and only then do you have a complete locomotive
12:25:01  <TheCoach> all i need to do is make it so you buy the complete set. There's a total of 3 diesel locos that work this way and one steam engine that should automatically pack a tender with it
12:26:01  <V453000> pm: not me but I wanted to :d
12:26:37  <V453000> train set and some town names
12:26:45  <planetmaker> articulated vehicles seem to be what you look for, TheCoach
12:27:24  <V453000> ooh I remember now
12:27:41  <V453000> korean train set - a ton of seemingly very similar passenger trains
12:28:09  <TheCoach> i'm looking at the prospect of having to recode the entire set in nml just for that and i can already see how well THAT goes
12:28:45  <planetmaker> well. you can't really use NML to update a set not written in it
12:29:47  <V453000> coding in NML is real easy TheCoach
12:29:58  <V453000> you will have it done quickly
12:30:19  <V453000> you can look at NUTS if you need to see how each feature is used
12:30:47  <V453000> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/repository/changes/nuts.nml I use only one nml file so you can ctrl+f there quickly
12:31:29  <V453000> by the way, making trains "break" with certain lengths is quite bad for playing
12:31:45  <TheCoach> i do not want to do it
12:31:51  <TheCoach> what i mean is
12:32:15  <TheCoach> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/2M62_in_Vilnius_depot.jpg
12:32:24  <TheCoach> this sort of a diesel enginwe
12:32:27  <TheCoach> it's 2 units
12:32:37  <V453000> yes, articulated vehicle
12:32:52  <Eddi|zuHause> TheCoach: automatically attaching a second part is easy, in the graphics-section of the vehicle write "artociöated_part: (extra_callback_info1 == 1)?other_vehicle:CB_RESULT_NO_MORE_ARTICULATED_PARTS;" or similar
12:33:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Àhrgs
12:33:08  <Eddi|zuHause> "articulated_part"
12:33:40  <TheCoach> I guess If I ever want to update this thing i'll have to recode it anyways
12:33:47  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly fit in a "return"
12:33:52  <planetmaker> the photo though looks like if each engine could perfectly well work on its own
12:34:22  <TheCoach> very impractical though, you'd have to somehow reverse it
12:34:30  <TheCoach> every time you want to go the other way
12:34:35  <TheCoach> also they are synchronized
12:34:57  <TheCoach> i have never even seen a photo of one operating or even just beign dragged arround detached from the other unit
12:35:11  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: well obviously there is a version that runs on its own...
12:35:28  <TheCoach> yes it's called M62
12:35:31  <Eddi|zuHause> also i vaguely remember there being a 3-part version
12:35:41  <TheCoach> yes crazzie ruskies had those
12:35:53  <TheCoach> and i even saw a picture of a 4 unit one ages ago
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12:43:08  <Ristovski> planetmaker: ok, I am still not a translator, lol
12:43:21  <Ristovski> and yes, I did relog
12:44:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i'll go screw up my system even more than it already is :/
12:44:18  <Ristovski> lol
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13:06:37  <michi_cc> @topic set 1 1.2.3, 1.3.0-RC3
13:06:37  *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.2.3, 1.3.0-RC3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
13:12:53  <TheCoach> http://s23.postimage.org/4ryvpnrcp/Unnamed_1944_01_01.png
13:13:10  <TheCoach> This is how the map looks like now
13:13:26  <Bonez305> how big is that ?
13:13:49  <TheCoach> 512x512 i think
13:14:03  <Bonez305> BS
13:14:23  <Bonez305> That thing looks humungous.
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13:15:30  <TheCoach> ah yes
13:15:36  <TheCoach> 1k by 1k
13:15:41  <TheCoach> i underestimated it
13:16:58  <TheCoach> the tiny corner of poland i nthe bottom left should have 10 times the ammount of lakes really
13:17:09  <TheCoach> i'll have to try and solve that problem
13:17:25  <TheCoach> it's hard to pin down where bodies of water should be
13:22:52  <Bonez305> dang that map looks really big i thought it would be 2k by 2k
13:23:04  <Bonez305> 2048x2048*
13:26:25  <Ristovski> hmm, planetmaker: restarted browser twice, logged out/back in like 10 times, still says Im not a translator
13:33:06  <Belugas> HELLO
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13:43:01  <planetmaker> odd, Ristovski...
13:43:13  <planetmaker> HI BELUGAS! ;-)
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13:44:06  <Ristovski> planetmaker: yeah, what shall I do now?
13:44:47  <__ln__> Ristovski: you mean "I'm"
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13:48:39  <planetmaker> if I only knew...
13:49:20  <Belugas> sir planetmaker :)
13:54:17  <Ristovski> planetmaker: could you try deleting me and adding me again to the translator list?
14:03:38  <planetmaker> That's about very unlikely to work... that's not windows
14:04:06  <planetmaker> but you could try
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14:38:57  <Ristovski> planetmaker: lol, well, did you try turning it off and back on? </applesupport>
14:42:35  <peter1139> </itcrowdsupport?
14:42:38  <peter1139> -?+>
14:45:01  <Ristovski> lol
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15:03:33  <Ristovski> planetmaker: finally, worked
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15:08:25  <Ristovski> how should I translate errors, they wouldnt make sense
15:11:31  <planetmaker> hu?
15:12:17  <Ristovski> planetmaker: I cant really translate the errors strings, they wouldnt make sense, Ill try tho
15:12:42  <planetmaker> why wouldn't they make sense?
15:13:38  <Ristovski> planetmaker: well, I cant really fine the exact words in macedonian
15:13:42  <Ristovski> find*
15:14:04  <planetmaker> translation doesn't mean to translate word for word ;-)
15:14:47  <planetmaker> it means to convey the message so that people understand it in that language
15:14:49  <Ristovski> lol, I know
15:15:23  <planetmaker> and yes, I know that some things are pretty hard to translate if there's no appropriate word in the target language
15:16:20  <planetmaker> given that the macedonian user base probably is not gigantically large, a forum thread likely would not get that much attention as would be helpful, I fear
15:16:38  <planetmaker> It helped me in translation to German though, both a thread in tt-forums as well as in the German forums
15:18:28  <Ristovski> ok
15:18:45  <Ristovski> planetmaker: Ill try to convince some of my friends to help too, since there is too much work for just one person :D
15:19:27  <planetmaker> sometimes it's really useful to actually find the string in its ingame context. It often also gives an idea on how to translate
15:19:53  <Ristovski> yeah, that too
15:20:26  <Ristovski> ive done .3% so far
15:21:17  <Ristovski> planetmaker: do vehicle names have to be translated too?
15:21:26  <planetmaker> well... :-)
15:21:32  <planetmaker> Depends
15:21:55  <planetmaker> Uhl coal truck -> Uhl Kohlelaster
15:22:03  <Ristovski> ah, I get it
15:22:18  <planetmaker> Dinger 2000 -> Dinger 2000
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15:24:29  <planetmaker> I did not translate railroad engine names
15:24:58  <planetmaker> one could as they're partially speaking names... but meh
15:26:02  <Ristovski> also, when are the translated strings merged?
15:26:07  <Ristovski> every week?
15:26:11  <planetmaker> every day
15:26:24  <Ristovski> oh, ok
15:26:26  <planetmaker> 19:45 CET
15:27:41  <planetmaker> thus the nightly built at 20h CET will have the strings from the past 24:15h
15:27:49  <Ristovski> oh nice
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16:23:26  <peter1139> hmm
16:23:39  <peter1139> can we include straight GPL3 code?
16:24:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so
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16:49:34  <peter1139> thought not
16:49:52  <peter1139> which makes linking to it awkward right?
16:50:04  <peter1139> (cos we'd need to distribute it)
16:54:03  <planetmaker> what you're up to, peter1139 ?
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17:01:26  <Terkhen> hello
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17:13:45  <planetmaker> hallo terjesc
17:13:52  <planetmaker> grr... hallo Terkhen :-)
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17:45:24  <Alberth> evenink
17:46:26  <Rubidium> ahoi
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18:25:50  <peter1139> planetmaker, thinking better resampling
18:31:08  <Bonez305> Can someone help me set up a openttd server on debian ?
18:31:10  <Bonez305> <---newb
18:31:25  <ToBeFree> yes
18:31:30  <ToBeFree> :-)
18:31:37  <ToBeFree> 1. open a ssh connection (guess what.^^)
18:31:48  <Bonez305> done
18:31:53  <ToBeFree> oh wait,
18:32:00  <ToBeFree> ah ok; so you have a server for that
18:32:04  <ToBeFree> nice. :-)
18:32:05  <Bonez305> Mhm
18:32:09  <ToBeFree> we'll run it as a daemon
18:32:14  <ToBeFree> + logging :-)
18:32:45  <ToBeFree> now, if you haven't already, sudo apt-get install openttd
18:32:46  <Bonez305> You lost me. not good with linux yet :D
18:32:54  <ToBeFree> no problem^^
18:33:06  <ToBeFree> daemon = running in the background, no interaction needed;
18:33:11  <Bonez305> screen ?
18:33:23  <ToBeFree> screen?!
18:33:35  <ToBeFree> logging = you will have a file containing all information about the running server
18:33:47  <ToBeFree> okay. I assume you know what apt-get is? :-)
18:34:08  <Bonez305> Mhm
18:34:17  <ToBeFree> ok, just enter the following command to install openttd then:
18:34:17  <ToBeFree> sudo apt-get install openttd
18:34:17  <ToBeFree> if you haven't already^^
18:34:25  <ToBeFree> next step: running that program :D
18:34:33  <Bonez305> that will install a 1.0.4 version i believe
18:34:34  <ToBeFree> cd ~/.openttd
18:34:54  <ToBeFree> Bonez305: oh, Debian. right. Might not be the newest version; let's use a .deb from the page
18:35:05  <Bonez305> downloaded
18:35:08  <Bonez305> :D
18:35:10  <ToBeFree> you have the .deb?
18:35:14  <ToBeFree> great, just enter:
18:35:14  <Bonez305> Mhm
18:35:22  <ToBeFree> sudo dpkg -i package.deb
18:35:26  <ToBeFree> should install it for you. :-)
18:35:50  <Bonez305> the thing is i havea VPS server so the deb file isnt on there. where should I place the deb file ?
18:35:53  <ToBeFree> ah
18:36:06  <ToBeFree> download it on the VPS directly:
18:36:16  <ToBeFree> wget http://link.to.file
18:36:24  <Bonez305> ah
18:36:25  <ToBeFree> (downloads it to the current directory)
18:36:44  <ToBeFree> otherwise, to transfer files for other needs, I suggest FileZilla,
18:36:45  <Bonez305> Thats my question though, does it matter where it goes ?
18:36:50  <ToBeFree> it supports SSH connections, even with keys
18:36:53  <ToBeFree> Bonez305: no
18:36:55  <ToBeFree> :D
18:37:16  <ToBeFree> it's absolutely unimportant where you download that; it will be installed in the right place by dpkg
18:37:26  <Bonez305> so just drop it in the /root directory ?
18:37:36  <ToBeFree> umm, if you want to :-) sure
18:37:58  <ToBeFree> I also assume you have a non-root user to run openttd as? :-)
18:38:12  <ToBeFree> can be your normal user if you have one
18:38:44  <ToBeFree> or do you always connect as root?
18:38:49  <Bonez305> u mean my /usr folder ?
18:38:54  <Bonez305> I always connect as root
18:38:56  <ToBeFree> your /home folder. ;-)
18:38:58  <ToBeFree> uh
18:39:06  <ToBeFree> I strongly recommend against connecting as root;
18:39:17  <ToBeFree> at least you use SSH keys and disabled password logins, I hope
18:40:22  <Alberth> in fact, use root as little as possible
18:40:28  <__ln__> it's good to run as root since there aren't enough open spam relays in the world yet.
18:40:34  <Bonez305> Sorry im all new to linux
18:40:40  <Bonez305> :/
18:40:53  <ToBeFree> no problem^^
18:42:13  <ToBeFree> __ln__: lol
18:45:43  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25110 /trunk/src/lang (6 files in 2 dirs) (2013-03-19 18:45:31 UTC)
18:45:44  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:45  <DorpsGek> croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> czech - 1 changes by micropro_cz
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> dutch - 1 changes by habell
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> icelandic - 20 changes by Stimrol
18:45:49  <DorpsGek> macedonian - 17 changes by Ristovski
18:45:50  <DorpsGek> slovak - 1 changes by micropro_cz
18:46:36  <ToBeFree> :-/ that was a question made for me and it wasn't answerable because of Microsoft. I begin to hate that company
18:47:45  <Alberth> don't, invest your time and effort in making a viable alternative
18:48:13  <Alberth> that hits them much harder :p
18:52:37  <ToBeFree> who is them
18:52:49  <ToBeFree> ah
18:52:52  <ToBeFree> misread^^
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18:55:09  <Wolf01> moin
18:55:58  <frosch123> ciao
18:56:12  <Stimrol> hello, anyone know where this string appears ingame --> STR_FEEDER_INCOME
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18:56:46  <frosch123> likely as raising text effect over vehicles
18:58:17  <Stimrol> like if I hover the mouse over a car or train?
18:58:47  <Eddi|zuHause> no, when the vehicle arrives at a station and is ordered to "transfer"
18:59:49  <Alberth> hi Wolf01
19:00:53  <Stimrol> no it only shows transfer : $$ but this is like this {YELLOW}Transfer: {CURRENCY_LONG}{WHITE} / {GREEN}Income: {CURRENCY_LONG}
19:01:30  <frosch123> i guess it is supposed to be displayed when the last vehicle arrives
19:01:31  <Alberth> when you deliver some cargoes, and transfer some other cargoes perhaps?
19:01:34  <frosch123> which is part of transfers
19:01:50  <frosch123> but lately that part of the code is very broken, so it might now show it :p
19:03:16  <Eddi|zuHause> when you have a mixed cargo train and order it to "unload". and only one of the cargos is accepted at this station, then it can show this combined effect
19:03:28  <Stimrol> this is some of the new translation strings. I checked with both car witch had transfer order then I followed a train which picked it up and the train only showed income.
19:03:29  <Eddi|zuHause> (or when you use cargod*st)
19:03:47  <Stimrol> okay, that explains it, thanks
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20:39:50  <Bonez305> where would one install the opengfx, opensfx, open msx files on a debian server ? ./openttd ?
20:40:26  <FLHerne> Bonez305: ~/.openttd/baseset, IIRC
20:40:38  <FLHerne> The README section 4.2 knows :P
20:40:45  <Bonez305> ah so its under baseset
20:41:13  <FLHerne> I know ogfx is, not perfectly sure on the other two
20:42:29  <FLHerne> Sound Sets: baseset (or a subdirectory thereof)
20:42:43  <FLHerne> Music Sets: baseset (or a subdirectory thereof)
20:42:44  <planetmaker> all are basesets
20:43:09  <planetmaker> and... debian package manager installs them just fine, if you tell it to install openttd
20:43:32  <planetmaker> so basically you could do "sudo apt-get install openttd" and you're set
20:44:26  <Bonez305> well when i did that it installed 1.0.4 :/
20:46:59  <Bonez305> nice its working :D
20:47:11  <Bonez305> now to mess with the config a bit
20:47:27  <Bonez305> If I could only find that lol
20:48:18  <Eddi|zuHause> config file is only there if you ran openttd once and exited normally
20:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause> or just copy one from your client to the place where you just put the baseset
20:52:30  <Bonez305> hrmm where would it be on my PC ? i cant seem to find it
20:54:06  <Alberth> it's documented in the do-not-readme: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/readme.txt#L266
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21:17:01  <Superuser> OMFG 1.3 WILL BE RELEASED SOON RIGHT???
21:18:54  <frosch123> no, it's canceled
21:19:01  <frosch123> blame andy
21:19:24  <Superuser> waht
21:19:34  <TrueBrain> postponed till a new pope gets ellected
21:19:39  <Superuser> anyway I was trying to get some last minute translations in mr frosch
21:20:00  <Superuser> I need you to find where STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS_DEFAULT (message = "Default") is
21:20:25  <TrueBrain> IN THE CODE!
21:21:11  <TrueBrain> I am not helping, am I?
21:21:12  <TrueBrain> hmmm
21:21:15  <TrueBrain> I should walk out again then
21:21:18  <TrueBrain> ssttt, I Was never here
21:21:25  * Ristovski cleans up after TrueBrain
21:21:34  <Superuser> please help
21:21:38  <Ristovski> who? no no, mr TrueBrain no here
21:21:40  <Superuser> TrueBrain: not helping
21:21:48  <Ristovski> Superuser: what OS?
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21:23:20  <Ristovski> Superuser: cant find that anywhere
21:24:15  <__ln__> Ristovski: you mean "can't"
21:24:41  <Ristovski> nope, I mean "cant"
21:24:51  <__ln__> there's no such word in english.
21:25:08  * Terkhen understood cant
21:25:16  <Superuser> Ristovski: u wot m8
21:25:29  <Superuser> it's Linux, but this is the web interface anyway
21:25:39  <Ristovski> Superuser: I cant find that string anywhere in the code
21:25:46  <Superuser> it just gives a list of all translatable strings in the game
21:25:48  <Superuser> it has to be there
21:25:52  <Superuser> well, in the lng file anyway
21:26:04  <Superuser> though I'm not familiar with openttd's custom (?) translation system
21:26:12  <Terkhen> I could find it easily on WT
21:26:39  <Terkhen> so it definitely exists
21:26:43  <Superuser> http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS_DEFAULT
21:26:51  <Superuser> yeah, I wonder where it is in the game
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21:28:23  <Ristovski> Superuser: it seems not to be, there is STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS and some others, tho no "DEFAULT"
21:28:41  <TrueBrain> let me guess: it is part of an enum ;)
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21:29:26  <Superuser> Ristovski: the "Default" I'm on about is the english string actually
21:29:41  <Ristovski> oh
21:30:28  <Superuser> so, any idea of where it is in the game? Something about vehicles?
21:31:33  <Ristovski> no idea
21:31:41  <TrueBrain> what is the next string?
21:31:57  <frosch123> Ristovski: vehicle_gui.cpp:1826
21:32:00  <Superuser> STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS_DAYS
21:32:06  <Alberth> vehicle_gui.cpp, lines 1826, and 2118
21:32:14  <Superuser> percentage after that
21:32:14  <frosch123> anyway, it's in the vehicle details gui obviously
21:32:19  <Ristovski> oh
21:32:20  <Superuser> sounds like some kind of table
21:32:27  <Superuser> oh riiight
21:32:28  <frosch123> dropdown
21:32:45  <Superuser> when you click on a vehicle and click the sheet icon (on OpenGFX)?
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21:39:05  <Superuser> #openttd, no offence but...
21:39:20  <Superuser> What is the Highscores table and why is it so butt-fucking ugly?
21:39:45  <frosch123> it's prettier than it used to be
21:39:52  <michi_cc> Superuser: Ask Chris Sawyer
21:40:23  <Ristovski> grr, I have no idea which of the devs have which nicks, lol
21:40:24  <FLHerne> Superuser: It's a redundant, pointless and badly-concieved thing that no-one looks at :P
21:40:25  <M3Henry2> Yay for hangovers
21:40:40  <FLHerne> Because of the last bit, it's irrelevant what it looks like :D
21:42:29  <Superuser> you should create a window with OpenTTD's widget set to display the highscore table
21:42:43  <Superuser> not have a frickin' JPEG background
21:43:09  <frosch123> Ristovski: what? everyone has only one nick
21:43:10  * Superuser is probably overestimating the power of OpenTTD's windowing API
21:43:39  <Ristovski> frosch123: I dont know who is who tho, since noone has the same nick on IRC as on forums w/e
21:43:40  <Alberth> yes, it cannot display jpegs
21:44:09  <frosch123> Ristovski: i think everyone has the same nick here as on forums :p
21:44:13  <planetmaker> ^^
21:44:32  * Alberth denies to use Alberth as tt-forums name
21:44:33  <frosch123> except DorpsGek
21:44:38  <planetmaker> :D
21:44:42  <frosch123> somehow he never wanted to join the froums
21:44:52  <Ristovski> frosch123: how come i dont recognize any of the opped nicks in here from the dev list
21:45:01  <M3Henry2> Yeah, a dithered 8-bit pcx image is not a jpeg
21:45:29  <M3Henry2> I recognise most of them, don't know what you're talking about
21:45:53  <frosch123> Ristovski: devs are not the top-spammers on the forums
21:45:58  <Wolf01> 'night guys
21:45:59  <michi_cc> Ristovski: Maybe you look at the wrong list...? http://www.openttd.org/en/contact
21:46:02  <Rubidium> night Wolf01
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21:46:22  <Superuser> why does ottd still support pcx for screenshots and stuff
21:46:24  <Ristovski> michi_cc: oh, nice
21:46:29  <Superuser> I'm pretty sure most browsers can't display the format
21:46:42  <Superuser> it's obsolete now
21:47:05  <michi_cc> Because we don't need an external library for it?
21:47:19  <frosch123> and because we even added support to load tto games
21:47:24  <Rubidium> Superuser: because it's so trivial we don't need an external library for it. Thus it is the perfect fallback for screenshots
21:47:39  <planetmaker> and why should it be removed?
21:48:08  <Superuser> because you are causing image format proliferation
21:48:22  <Superuser> and worse, PCX is an inferior, proprietary standard
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21:48:28  <frosch123> oh, we can make up for that by not supporting jpg
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21:49:28  <Ristovski> "general coding/windows expert/ OS/2 port" why no linux?
21:49:44  <frosch123> everyone is linux?
21:50:01  <M3Henry2> rm -rfq * ?
21:50:01  <Superuser> they support most linux distros, heck
21:50:02  <frosch123> it's the default, to say so
21:50:04  <Superuser> what are you on about
21:50:12  <Superuser> also I think the OS/2 port is broken, but not like anyone cares
21:50:22  <Ristovski> M3Henry2: uuh, /*, * will delete current dir
21:50:42  <Rubidium> Superuser: why do you think the OS/2 port is broken?
21:50:54  <Superuser> rm -rf / changes the program so it doesn't constantly say you don't have right to do it and it becomes more user friendly
21:51:02  <Superuser> I would highly recommend it, rm has never been so helpful
21:51:15  <Superuser> Rubidium: just what I heard, in this very channel I believe!
21:51:52  <M3Henry2> :3 fortunately I hav't been tired enough to do it, but I do know of people that have done that while cleaning out an old email server
21:52:21  <Superuser> ITC people living under rocks
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21:53:26  <frosch123> M3Henry2: i know a guy who took the dos reference manual at age of 7 or so, and started at the beginning to try every command to see what it does
21:53:37  <frosch123> he got stuck somewhere at "f"
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21:53:46  <planetmaker> :D
21:54:06  <planetmaker> you know that guy very intimately? ;-)
21:54:19  <frosch123> no, it's not me :)
21:54:28  <frosch123> it's a mate from school
21:55:06  <planetmaker> :-)
21:55:22  <Rubidium> oh... the PCX specs are much more interesting than the JPEG ones ;)
21:55:32  <Alberth> :)
21:55:43  <Rubidium> "... call our BBS at (404)427-1045 ..."
21:56:00  <peter1139> those were the days
21:56:24  <planetmaker> :DDD
21:56:32  <Eddi|zuHause> if there's a highscore table and nobody looks at it, does it make a sound?
21:56:47  <Superuser> Hmm, you know that string I was rabbitting on about?
21:56:55  <Superuser> Turns out I don't know how to use this control
21:57:04  <Superuser> What does it do? It's in vehicle properties, a dropdown
21:57:22  <Superuser> lets you pick between 'default', 'days' and 'percentage'? I have no idea what this does
21:57:42  <Alberth> service interval?
21:58:03  <Alberth> play with breakdowns enabled ;)
21:58:06  <FLHerne> The trouble with that table is they way the scores are based on bizarre weightings of seeminly randomly-selected metrics :P
21:58:13  <Supercheese> Psh, breakdowns
21:58:13  <peter1139> play with tooltips ons
21:58:15  <peter1139> -s
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21:58:43  <Superuser> As an amateur UX designer, I think this is terrible
21:58:46  <peter1139> FLHerne, the weightings are based on TTD original settings, clearly
21:58:58  <peter1139> 256x256 map, limited amount of vehicles, etc, etc...
21:59:22  <FLHerne> peter1139: Hrm. Would it be possible to change that?
21:59:31  <peter1139> why bother, nobody looks at it
21:59:52  <Superuser> typical 90s-era mentality
22:00:02  <FLHerne> Hoy, I was about to say that :P
22:00:09  <peter1139> it's cool that UI design is now called UX design
22:00:22  <Supercheese> it is?
22:00:26  <peter1139> users don't interface with us now
22:00:30  <peter1139> they experience us
22:00:35  <Supercheese> News to me
22:01:43  <peter1139> as an amateur add-a-button-to-make-some-code-usable designer, i don't care much about feedback that consists of "this is terrible"
22:02:29  *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:03:25  <Superuser> As a successful troll, I believe I am highly successful ;)
22:03:33  <Ristovski> lol
22:04:06  <Alberth> how can you call yourself "successful" if you didn't believe it?
22:04:17  <frosch123> i suppose you he meant "amateur troll"
22:04:37  <frosch123> would fit the discussion better
22:07:27  <FLHerne> peter1139: Why not just remove it, if no-one looks at it?
22:07:43  <FLHerne> Call it "simplifying the UI" or something :D
22:07:58  <frosch123> FLHerne: 1.3 already removed 3/4 of it :p
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22:08:34  <frosch123> anyway, there was space left in the main screen
22:08:59  <frosch123> it needs to be an odd number of buttons, else it looks weird in the current design
22:11:00  <Rubidium> so trash MP or NewGRFs. Both will make many improvements mich easier
22:11:32  <frosch123> yeah, text adventure
22:13:22  <frosch123> FLHerne: anyway, ofc you can also provide a patch which adds gamescript-specific highscore tables
22:13:27  <Zuu> yeah, 32bit graphics is boring, there should be an ncurses video output for OpenTTD :-)
22:13:32  <frosch123> then i would not have to maintain it in the wiki
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22:14:20  <frosch123> Zuu: smatz and me tried a braille patch a few years ago
22:14:30  <FLHerne> frosch123: Sounds fun. Perhaps one day I'll finally know enough C++ to write something useful :P
22:14:36  <Zuu> frosch123: Sounds interesting
22:15:08  <andythenorth> Zuu: when will you do a new GS? :P
22:15:16  <andythenorth> I need a reason to play ottd
22:15:34  <Zuu> Those who want to make voice overs using text-to-speech software might be able to hook into a braille API :-)
22:15:38  <frosch123> Zuu: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/png2braille/ <- i do not have any ottd screenshot anymore though
22:16:24  <Zuu> andythenorth: Here is my latest GS: https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/5509
22:16:38  <Zuu> I do however not find it very fun to play with :-p
22:16:44  <andythenorth> it's not a cargo goal :P
22:16:56  <andythenorth> are you busy doing useful stuff instead of fun stuff? :P
22:17:04  <andythenorth> shameful ;)
22:17:06  <Zuu> Sort of
22:17:19  <FLHerne> andythenorth: I noticed you removed the town-industry naming from recent FIRS :-(
22:17:34  <andythenorth> that's what listening to players gets you
22:17:35  <Zuu> Lately I've been busy doing non-OpenTTD stuff
22:17:47  <FLHerne> That was really nice. Why remove it?
22:18:03  <FLHerne> Now I have to think of imaginative names for every tram stop :P
22:18:07  <andythenorth> because players hated it
22:18:17  <FLHerne> Why hate it?
22:18:27  <andythenorth> because they did
22:18:32  <andythenorth> ask Ammler pikka peter1139
22:18:36  <andythenorth> I dunno
22:18:41  <andythenorth> it's gone anyway
22:18:45  <FLHerne> It looked better than [x] Branch/Exchange/Transfer etc
22:18:46  <Superuser> fun stuff: make trains/road vehicles/ships blow up when aeroplanes fall on them
22:18:46  <andythenorth> the game will name stations for you
22:19:00  <Superuser> if an aeroplanes falls on your vehicles right now, nothing happens
22:19:17  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Yes, but it names them in stupid ways that don't take the landscape or surroundings into account well :P
22:19:19  <Superuser> would be awesome if they could collide. Fun stuff indeed (will in actuality make you want to tear your hair out)!
22:19:23  * Pinkbeast liked it but I guess I'm only one player
22:19:30  <andythenorth> FLHerne: so patch the game
22:20:15  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Probably easier for me to grap some FIRS code and un-patch that :P
22:21:11  <FLHerne> I might even do that when I have some time
22:21:16  <andythenorth> [shrug]
22:21:28  <Zuu> andythenorth: Anyway, I did actually release a new version of Neighbours are important yesterday (and another today). But I guess once you have played that a few times you don't want more of that but rather some other challenges.
22:22:03  <FLHerne> andythenorth: That's the second [shrug] I've got today, from two completely different people :P
22:23:26  <frosch123> night
22:23:31  *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00926a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:24:44  <andythenorth> Zuu: I am particularly addicted to NoCarGoal
22:24:54  <andythenorth> I wondered about a version that sets a new challenge every n years
22:25:10  <andythenorth> rotating through different cargos
22:25:19  <Terkhen> good night
22:25:30  <Zuu> andythenorth: So you want to play longer than 7 years? :-)
22:25:55  <andythenorth> maybe :)
22:25:57  <andythenorth> sometimes
22:27:35  <Zuu> Personally I think it would be cool if I could get further ahead on this work: https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/Zuu/click-on-string
22:28:09  <andythenorth> it would
22:28:15  <Zuu> But you might file that under "useful stuff" :-p
22:32:54  <andythenorth> :)
22:33:00  * andythenorth -> bed
22:33:01  <andythenorth> bye
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22:55:49  <Purity01> !password
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23:03:16  <V453000> second one in a short while
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23:12:11  <Eddi|zuHause> they never learn :p
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23:14:08  <Dewin> Is there a reference somewhere for suggesting things like... proper selection of (new) savegame versions when merging in a bunch of patches/etc?
23:14:40  <Dewin> Aside from something like  "take highest # used by any patch and add one to break compatibility"
23:16:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Dewin: there is no clear guide on that, but theoretically it's possible to keep compatibility when adding patches
23:17:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Dewin: there was a very old patchpack called "MiniIN" which had a system
23:17:33  <Dewin> Eddi|zuHause: The patches in question each add new saved variables.
23:18:03  <Dewin> And right now I'm dealing with a grand total of... two.  Well, three, but that's because I'm trying to decided whether I want slim timetable separation or automated separation...
23:18:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Dewin: basically, you start at current trunk's savegame version, and each patch you add you add one to that version
23:19:12  <Dewin> Incidentally, this is turning out to be a very good way to learn how git works, which has been on my todo list for awhile
23:20:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Dewin: then, whenever trunk bumps the version, you bump yours as well. with some additional magic you stay compatible with new trunk savegames and recent savegames made with your patchpack, only losing very old savegames made with your patchpack
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23:54:13  <FLHerne> TBH, most patches I've seen/poked just seem to use 200 for the save version...
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