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Log for #openttd on 1st April 2013:
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07:18:52  <Alberth> moin
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08:32:23  <planetmaker> moin
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08:37:16  <Alberth> o/
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08:39:19  <LordAro> it's morning again
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08:44:48  <alandarev> what is reltively easy method to upgrade railway to electrified
08:46:50  <LordAro> use the convert tool across the entire map?
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08:50:55  <alandarev> oh I no longer need to send trains to depots
08:51:19  <LordAro> not for normal rail -> electric
08:51:28  <Alberth> if you want electric trains, you do :)
08:51:58  <alandarev> Alberth: pff why would I want, I just want electric rails to look stylish
08:52:15  <Alberth> ok :)
08:52:41  <V453000> not for any other rail -> any other rail with the correct newGRFs :P
08:54:20  <alandarev> owww, wagons won't let me use all the strenght of AsianStar :(
08:54:27  <RavingManiac> I just had the most brilliant idea
08:54:32  <RavingManiac> Combine simcity and openttd
08:54:42  <RavingManiac> You are building this quiet farm town
08:54:42  <alandarev> RavingManiac: just install CityBuilder :)
08:54:59  <RavingManiac> then suddenly, a railway carves into the residential district, killing dozens
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08:55:33  <RavingManiac> Before you can protest, the rail company chucks ,000,000 into the treasury
08:56:15  <RavingManiac> and a small forest plops into existence on the city's edge
08:56:36  <RavingManiac> and all is well
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08:58:14  <LordAro> that would be quite fun :P
08:58:54  <LordAro> "OpenTTD: Personal"
09:00:38  <alandarev> :DD
09:01:04  <LordAro> or: "OpenTTD: Personal Edition"
09:01:21  <LordAro> with the subtitle: "This shit just got real" or something similar :P
09:03:11  <alandarev> is there any reason I would rather not use Path Signals?
09:03:44  <LordAro> traditionalist
09:04:00  <LordAro> or doing something stupidly crazy with pre-signals
09:04:12  <LordAro> (i.e. see openttdcoop)
09:04:37  <alandarev> :D
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09:08:56  <alandarev> why I can't see openttdcoop server in my multiplayer list?
09:09:41  <LordAro> dunno, ask in #openttdcoop ;)
09:09:54  <alandarev> nighty revision servers are not displayed in 1.2.3 client?
09:10:06  <LordAro> possible, but i doubt it...
09:10:14  <LordAro> why are you not using 1.3.0 yet? :P
09:10:34  <Alberth> of course not, you cannot join servers with a different client
09:10:34  <alandarev> I am using 1.3.0, but there are so many 1.2.3 servers that I ended up having both versions
09:10:47  <LordAro> gdgd :)
09:10:59  <alandarev> Alberth: well but I was expecting to at least see the rXXXX servers
09:11:13  <alandarev> ah nvm now I see them, didn't realize they are in the end of a list
09:11:23  <Rubidium> just filter on openttdcoop and there should be a couple there, otherwise your ISP blocks (deliberately or undeliberately) connections to the ISP of openttdcoop
09:11:25  <Alberth> http://www.openttd.org/en/servers
09:12:39  <planetmaker> alandarev, if you can't find them when filtering for it and after pressing "update server list" again and waiting for new info to trickle in, please tell which of the servers you search
09:12:42  <alandarev> oh gosh I missed 1.3 release :( I am still at RC4
09:12:57  <planetmaker> you could then try to find it via it's IP (which you could enter manually)
09:13:01  <alandarev> planetmaker: I found them, thanks
09:13:34  <planetmaker> good :-)
09:13:43  <alandarev> any changes since RC4?
09:13:44  <planetmaker> s/it's/its/
09:13:56  <LordAro> a wild maker of planets appeared :)
09:14:15  <planetmaker> there was an RC4? :D
09:14:23  <alandarev> RC3* :D
09:14:45  <planetmaker> hi LordAro ;-)
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10:40:51  <Terkhen> hello
10:41:04  <frosch123> hmm, why does newest xkcd use a times-style font? is that a weird kind of april fools?
10:41:12  <frosch123> moin terkhen :)
10:42:20  <Terkhen> frosch123: when I read xkcd this morning the dog was microscopic
10:43:24  <Terkhen> and the donation count was at 10$... xkcd raised 4000$ in hours, amazing :P
10:43:38  <frosch123> ah, it works that way
10:55:55  <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=64941 <- replacing the ttdp installation on your mother-in-law's pc with an openttd installation -> divorce
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11:11:27  <andythenorth> morning
11:11:50  <frosch123> afternoon
11:13:23  <planetmaker> moin andythenorth
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11:20:25  <alandarev> do I need to set anything more except lan_internet 1 to get my dedicated server publicly listed? I can connect to it and play, but it is not in the openttd/servers list
11:21:58  <frosch123> @ports
11:21:58  <DorpsGek> frosch123: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
11:22:13  <frosch123> your firewall/router should not block the udp prots
11:22:38  <frosch123> not sure whether you need to set lan_internet to 1 or to 0 though :)
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11:28:13  <michi_cc> server_advertise has to be set to true
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11:37:36  <alandarev> frosch123: all ports are open ..
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12:06:38  <Zuu> I'm going to re-make the beginner tutorial scenario in order to include a NewGRF that blocks industry closure. Is "manual industries" the way to go?
12:07:46  <Rubidium> I'd guess so
12:08:30  <Rubidium> though you also might want to think about reducing certain costs/increasing revenue or something to make the scenario easier (or harder to fail because you bought too much)
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12:09:09  <Zuu> I've previously fixed that by giving the player a large amount of (cheated) money.
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12:19:34  <andythenorth> planetmaker: how can I get GRF_ID into arguments to python script from makefile?
12:19:47  <andythenorth> I have done it for GRF_TITLE, but can't see how it's done :P
12:20:13  <Alberth> command-line argument?
12:20:31  <andythenorth> yes
12:20:40  <andythenorth> I thought it was done in scripts/Makefile_nml
12:20:47  <planetmaker> yes, makefile allows command line arguments. But I'm not sure the GRFID is used in (current) makefiles
12:21:08  <andythenorth> ah
12:21:12  <andythenorth> it is t
12:21:15  <andythenorth> oops
12:21:19  <andythenorth> toddler typing :P
12:21:27  <andythenorth> it appears to be in the FIRS makefile
12:21:33  <planetmaker> I used it once. But found mentioning the grfid in the readme somewhat pointless
12:21:43  <planetmaker> as there was imho no use other place than in the code
12:22:10  <planetmaker> FIRS likely still uses an old one. Let me look. Maybe it's of the assignment type which doesn't allow manual override
12:22:17  <planetmaker> via cmd
12:23:55  <planetmaker> anyhow, what do you want to achieve, andythenorth ?
12:24:15  <andythenorth> specifically trying to restore the GRF_ID writing for the readme
12:24:22  <andythenorth> but I bet there's an easier way
12:24:29  <andythenorth> I am approaching this wrong :)
12:25:00  <andythenorth> the nml header has the grfid hard-coded in place
12:25:16  <andythenorth> the easiest thing right now is to drop grfid from readme tbh
12:25:17  <planetmaker> that's where it goes wrong already :D
12:25:25  <planetmaker> yes, that's what I did ;-)
12:25:31  <andythenorth> done deal
12:26:00  <planetmaker> if you want the grfid in the readme, though, it could be done along the lines of the version
12:26:50  <planetmaker> which is indeed handed to gcc as command line parameter so that it's written correctly into the NML
12:28:23  <planetmaker> thus in scripts/Makefile_nml you need to add -D GRFID=$(GRFID)
12:28:33  <planetmaker> and replace the grfID in the nml source by GRFID
12:28:48  <planetmaker> oh. GRF_ID
12:28:52  <planetmaker> not GRFID
12:29:46  <planetmaker> hm. I wonder... FIRS readme should still take care of a {{GRFID}} text "command"
12:29:58  <planetmaker> {{GRF_ID}}
12:30:01  <planetmaker> stupid underscore :D
12:32:11  <andythenorth> the chameleon templater can do the insertion
12:32:16  <andythenorth> all the docs go through a python step ;)
12:33:16  <planetmaker> I don't know how to do that. But I know how my system works :-P
12:33:58  <andythenorth> ${repo_vars.repo_version} etc :)
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12:34:49  <planetmaker> he... I get that my NML is too old...
12:35:08  <andythenorth> even if it works, be prepared for a long wait :P
12:35:16  <andythenorth> FIRS is insanely slow to compile now
12:35:34  <andythenorth> all of the conditional stuff must add a lot of IDs to resolve I guess
12:35:46  <andythenorth> spritelayouts in particular
12:37:10  <planetmaker> why the heck do I get that my nml is too old? :-(
12:38:13  <andythenorth> an unrelated build error sometimes throws that warning
12:38:28  <andythenorth> paste?
12:38:45  <andythenorth> hmm
12:38:51  <planetmaker> ah... let's see... yes
12:38:54  <andythenorth> can I be arsed to update FIRS readme before 1.0 release?
12:39:15  <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/readme.txt
12:39:39  <planetmaker> yes, you can :-P
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12:40:04  <andythenorth> meh :)
12:42:34  <planetmaker> hm... something in the preprocessing you wrote makes my approach to add the grfID the REPO_REVISION way impossible. It's replaced to nothingness
12:42:52  <planetmaker> or I do somehting wrong. Also entirely possible
12:44:15  <planetmaker> ah, I see... yes
12:45:08  <planetmaker> why do you still have gcc in the line anyway?
12:45:16  <planetmaker> hm, for the incudes?
12:45:31  <andythenorth> for the CPP stuff
12:45:41  <andythenorth> there's quite a lot of CPP stuff left
12:45:48  <andythenorth> no reason to remove it, it works well
12:46:08  <andythenorth> planetmaker: don't worry about the grfID :)
12:46:22  <andythenorth> does the readme really need the GPL license copied into it?
12:46:27  <andythenorth> we have license.txt anyway
12:46:53  <planetmaker> It doesn't need the entire license. But IMHO it should contain the brief form which tells people the license
12:47:05  <planetmaker> The usual few-lines paragraph
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12:49:32  <planetmaker> real	0m47.504s
12:50:08  <planetmaker> sounds acceptable
12:50:09  <andythenorth> :o
12:50:13  <andythenorth> you bought a new mac?
12:50:27  <planetmaker> no. It's alinux desktop
12:51:58  <andythenorth> way faster
12:57:08  <planetmaker> it's a fast cpu. I wanted that... for these purposes :D
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13:10:04  <Belugas> hello
13:15:22  <planetmaker> hello belugas
13:19:28  <frosch123> lazy europeans
13:21:18  <alandarev> may someone remind me where can I see default cargo id's?
13:21:45  <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CargoDefaultProps
13:21:54  <alandarev> frosch123: yay, thanks
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13:35:51  <Belugas> hello sir planetmaker :)
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13:36:10  <Bonez305> why is it that my server removes companies after a while?
13:36:22  <frosch123> maybe you configured it that way
13:36:24  <Bonez305> what needs to be changed in the config in order to have them not delete?
13:36:32  <Bonez305> I havent really changed much.
13:36:49  <Bonez305> map size, start date, end date basically.
13:37:36  <frosch123> check autoclean_* settings
13:37:43  <planetmaker> company_autoclean or similar
13:38:03  <alandarev> while moving openttd.cfg from windows to linux, do I have to change all the "\" in [newgrf] and [preset-yey] to "/"?
13:38:15  <frosch123> yes
13:38:30  <alandarev> ah now that explains why my server got all newgrx disabled
13:40:27  <Bonez305> autoclean_companies = false
13:40:28  <Bonez305> :/
13:41:21  <frosch123> restart_game_year ?
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13:48:54  <andythenorth> Belugas !
13:48:55  <andythenorth> hello
13:52:19  <Bonez305> restart_game_year set to 2050
13:52:47  <Bonez305> I don't understand why it would be deleting companies :(
13:54:15  <planetmaker> there are other company delete settings. Like for those companies which never buitl a vehicle or so
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13:55:21  <frosch123> Bonez305: that means that the game restarts when it reaches year 2050
13:55:33  <frosch123> restarting means resetting everything
13:55:48  <frosch123> set it to "0" and the game will run forever
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14:02:39  <alandarev> is there any good video tutorial explaining how to build rail networks? (Need to help lesser-smart friends)
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14:03:39  <Der_Herr> build station A, build station B, connect with rails, build train with fitting wagons...
14:07:41  <Alberth> alandarev: there are several YT videos, but no-one made a nice overview at the wiki yet
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14:12:47  <maria19> hottyyy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvijX055h5M
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14:13:51  <Belugas> hello andythenorth the lego dad :)
14:15:08  * andythenorth making a fire station ;)
14:17:55  <andythenorth> also http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=44177&p=1072087#p1072087
14:18:04  * Ristovski is suspicious to what easter eggs there are in 1.3.0
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14:22:58  <planetmaker> oh, nice stats summary, andythenorth :-)
14:25:13  <andythenorth> I didn't include "at least 9,000 rewrites of supplies behaviour" ;)
14:25:17  <frosch123> it misses the figure "number of unicorns sacrificed in the process"
14:25:54  <andythenorth> oops :m
14:26:05  <andythenorth> forgot to credit frosch123 sorry
14:26:15  <frosch123> did i do anything?
14:26:27  <frosch123> not that i know of :)
14:26:32  <andythenorth> ottd patches
14:27:41  <andythenorth> how is the pony count going anyway?
14:28:41  <frosch123> 10 vs 3
14:28:43  <frosch123> or so
14:29:03  <frosch123> 10 things added to the list, 3 done
14:29:38  <frosch123> also, the longer the weekend are, the less i do :p
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14:32:49  <andythenorth> :p
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14:40:13  <Zuu> Hmm musa do not (yet) support GS or scenarios :-(
14:43:26  <frosch123> are you sure?
14:43:37  <frosch123> maybe just noone tested it
14:43:52  <frosch123> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/extra/musa.hg/file/51b5e65a0da9/type.py#l245 <- they do not seem to left out intentionally
14:44:12  <frosch123> oh, wait..
14:44:25  <frosch123> there are a lot of "raise MusaException("unsupported")"
14:44:57  <Zuu> Yes, I found that accidently when searching for the code that evaluate dependencies.
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14:51:27  <andythenorth> does musa save me logging into bananas?
14:51:28  <andythenorth> :P
14:51:35  * andythenorth considers a script to wrap it
14:52:23  <frosch123> i think there were some worries about integrating it into the devzone and autouploading on tagging
14:52:30  <frosch123> but technically it should work
14:53:39  <frosch123> anyway, since you are finished with firs, you can now work on musa :)
14:54:44  <alandarev> Alberth: YT videos?
14:55:32  <Alberth> youtube, the google service for uploading random stuff
14:55:33  <frosch123> just search for openttd
14:56:07  <alandarev> :)) ah
14:56:21  <alandarev> i'll pretend it wasn't me who asked what is YT
14:56:53  <frosch123> would you have understood "UT"? :p
14:57:00  <Zuu> andythenorth: I started to write a  make_musa.py that would update all .tar and .ini files for musa and possible also call musa itself to initiate the upload
14:57:13  <alandarev> frosch123: don't think so
14:57:41  <Zuu> But apparently I will not be able to execute that script.
14:57:49  <alandarev> frosch123: I am scarried of trying utube.com as any phrase +tube.com except youtube is usually porn
14:58:40  <frosch123> true
14:59:10  <Zuu> My hope was that musa could allow me to write a dependency for "manual industries" and possible also no longer use an "ask a dev" hack to create dependencies not supported by the Web UI.
14:59:39  <alandarev> what is musa?
14:59:52  <frosch123> a type of tree
15:00:02  <alandarev> which is superior to bananas?
15:00:04  <Zuu> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=63119
15:00:19  <frosch123> it's a banana tree
15:00:35  <frosch123> not sure what comes first. the banana or the banana tree
15:00:46  <alandarev> :D you will never know
15:03:39  <alandarev> anyway guys, great job. it's not the game which makes project alive but community continuosly improving it and adding extra features. <3
15:06:10  <planetmaker> both depend on eachother ;-)
15:07:53  <andythenorth> so MP GS FIRS later?
15:08:01  <andythenorth> with ottd 1.3.0?
15:08:33  <planetmaker> why not, yes
15:10:18  <andythenorth> use a FIRS basic economy, not Arctic
15:10:30  <frosch123> i haven't played tropic
15:10:34  <andythenorth> try that :)
15:10:41  <andythenorth> we need a new GS :P
15:10:50  <frosch123> who prepares the game?
15:11:08  <andythenorth> not me :D
15:11:15  * andythenorth has domestic things to do
15:11:39  <andythenorth> [sorry]
15:11:45  <frosch123> did uk also switch time?
15:12:20  <andythenorth> it's 16.12 here
15:12:29  <frosch123> ok, so you are on +1 now :)
15:13:02  <andythenorth> what time is it for you?
15:13:23  <frosch123> 19 utc = 20 bst = 21 cest as usual?
15:13:34  <frosch123> andythenorth: apparently always an hour ahead of you
15:13:38  <andythenorth> seems so :)
15:13:46  * Zuu fails to figure out how to detect which uniqueId a scenario will get when it gets uploaded. It appears to depend on things on the bananas server which are hard to predict on the client side, but I'm not 100% sure.
15:14:12  <frosch123> Zuu: yes, scerarios are assigned an id by the server
15:14:27  <frosch123> it's stored in the tar though
15:14:38  <frosch123> so, if you download it from bananas, you can check the tar contents
15:16:38  <Zuu> So in musa the scenario need to be a leaf which can depend on other content, but other content cannot depend on it.
15:16:54  <frosch123> why not?
15:17:05  <frosch123> you just need to upload the scenario first
15:17:26  <Zuu> If the scenario is uploaded first, it cannot depend on anything else.
15:17:43  <Zuu> Assuming you cannot depend on content not on bananas yet.
15:18:15  <frosch123> well, if yuo cannot edit the deps afterwards, i guess you need to upload a dummy scenario first
15:18:23  <frosch123> later update with the real one
15:18:40  <Zuu> In the web UI the scenario get a new uniqueId at each update.
15:18:50  <frosch123> really?
15:18:55  <frosch123> that sounds weird to me
15:19:01  <frosch123> why would it need an id then?
15:19:13  <Zuu> But maybe I should just give up cyclic deps and make the scenario depend on other stuff but not in the reverse direction.
15:19:28  <frosch123> if updates get a new id, then you could as well use the md5sum
15:19:40  <frosch123> i would expect that updates get the same id :)
15:20:27  <frosch123> hmm, yeah, beginner tutorial v9 and v11 have different ids :s
15:20:40  <Zuu> This line apear to do that, but my bananas manager tells that each version of my scenarios have different ids. http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/extra/website.hg/file/ba8c63598f72/bananas/views.py#l705
15:21:55  <Zuu> Or at least that code might be intended for picking the old ID.
15:22:24  <frosch123> i wonder, how does ottd detect updates then... or whether it is a bug :p
15:23:04  <Zuu> In my scenario list I see all past downloaded versions of the beginner tutorial scenario.
15:23:18  <Zuu> If it was properly working it maybe should hide old versions?
15:24:14  <Zuu> Currently, updates will work if not else, but because it will find an update for the GS which depend on the scenario.
15:25:01  <frosch123> FindScenario() seem to suggest like i thought
15:25:09  <frosch123> so i would think this is a bug of bananas
15:25:19  <frosch123> Rubidium: TrueBrain: can you confirm on that?
15:25:45  <frosch123> updating scenarios and heightmaps should reuse the same unique id; which it currently does not
15:30:14  <TrueBrain> frosch: can I confirm on what?
15:30:35  <frosch123> that updating scenarios and heightmaps should use the same unique id
15:30:44  <frosch123> so the client can actually detect them as updates
15:30:45  <TrueBrain> most likely
15:31:19  <frosch123> Zuu: so, we need to fix bananas then :p
15:31:34  <Zuu> yes
15:31:46  <TrueBrain> it should already do that I think .. at least it did when we tested that stuff
15:31:54  <TrueBrain> hmm .. no, that was for AIs and GSes
15:31:57  <TrueBrain> and GRFs
15:32:07  <TrueBrain> I doubt Scenarios are ever tested; do they have an unique id?
15:32:18  <frosch123> yes, assigned consecutively by the server
15:32:30  <TrueBrain> ah; then no, every upload should be just that: a new upload
15:32:39  <frosch123> all other content defines it's id itself
15:32:41  <Zuu> if you want to upload things via musa you need it to set dependencies.
15:32:53  <frosch123> only scenario and heightmaps have no own id, and thus get one from the server
15:33:01  <TrueBrain> as long as a Scenario and a Heightmap dont have an internal ID, I doubt you can fix it in a sane way
15:33:09  <TrueBrain> sry, I misunderstood the initial question and was thinking about GSes :)
15:33:25  <frosch123> well, but the id is stored in the tar
15:33:37  <frosch123> and currently the client assumes that is can use that id to detect updates :p
15:33:48  <Zuu> In thet bananas WebUI, you run the update form. Doesn't it keep track of the ID of the old content to upload?
15:34:06  <frosch123> there would actually be no point in storing that id in the tar, it has no other purpose than the md5sum would have
15:34:46  <frosch123> Zuu: i would hope so, else you could upload fish as update to firs :p
15:35:09  <TrueBrain> it uses uniqueids to match what his parent is, I believe
15:35:13  <Zuu> So, it could use a dB query to get the uniqueId of the old content and use that for the update.
15:35:26  <TrueBrain> I would not do that
15:35:31  <andythenorth> we could rebuild bananas o_O
15:35:36  <TrueBrain> basically, what you allow then, is someone to upload a new heightmap over an existing
15:35:38  <TrueBrain> that is COMPLETELY different
15:35:40  <V453000> is it dying? :P
15:35:45  <andythenorth> already dead
15:35:53  <TrueBrain> what you want and kinda need, is to have an unique id in the heightmap and scenario itself
15:35:56  <TrueBrain> which you assign as author
15:35:59  <andythenorth> biab
15:36:22  <TrueBrain> that would also make it the same as allll the other things we have for OpenTTD
15:37:18  <TrueBrain> that all said and done, I see that BaNaNaS does exactly what you suggest
15:37:23  <TrueBrain> if you update an existing upload
15:37:30  <TrueBrain> it uses as uniqueid the uniqueid of its parent
15:37:38  <TrueBrain> so the uniqueid should remain equal
15:37:41  <TrueBrain> at least, that is what the code reads
15:37:54  <Zuu> TrueBrain: I don't really follow you. You can already update your existing uploaded scenario that is a complete new .scn file.
15:37:56  <TrueBrain> a horrible solution, but I guess we have been up and down this before, seen by the solution :D
15:38:15  <TrueBrain> Zuu: what I try to say is, that it is bad to depend server-side on what you are making an update
15:38:26  <TrueBrain> for GRFs, AIs, etc etc we also validate if the file you send is really an update or not
15:38:47  <TrueBrain> but okay, it clearly all doesnt matter, as BaNaNaS already does it how you suggested it should do it :P
15:39:44  <Zuu> TrueBrain: The code suggests that it picks the uniqueId of its parent, but if I look in my manager, each version of a scenario have a new uniqueId.
15:40:06  <TrueBrain> and you did use update on them?
15:40:09  <TrueBrain> not uploaded as new?
15:40:18  <Zuu> I used the update button
15:41:01  <TrueBrain> ID 2627, Beginner Tutorial 12
15:41:06  <TrueBrain> uniqueid: 2396
15:41:11  <TrueBrain> clearly it works ;)
15:41:39  <Zuu> Manager says: 0000095C
15:41:49  <frosch123> @base 16 10 95c
15:41:49  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 2396
15:41:57  <Zuu> for version 11 it says: 000008F6
15:42:15  <Zuu> @base 16 10 8f6
15:42:15  <DorpsGek> Zuu: 2294
15:42:31  <TrueBrain> hahaha :D Owh, that is a nasty bug, or misfeature :P
15:42:36  <TrueBrain> it takes the ID of the parent
15:42:45  <TrueBrain> the _id_ of the parent
15:44:16  <TrueBrain> right; then this should fix it
15:44:52  <frosch123> did you fix both scenario and heightmap?
15:44:59  <TrueBrain> yes, it is the same line
15:45:14  <TrueBrain> parentId = fOld.pk -> parentId = fOld.uniqueid
15:45:16  <TrueBrain> ;)
15:45:37  <frosch123> ok, i guess we don't care about existing scenarios and heightmaps :)
15:45:43  <frosch123> most of them never got updates anyway
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15:47:32  <Zuu> frosch123: but when they get an update, it will work. (if I read the fix correctly)
15:48:03  <frosch123> yup, just the old updates fail
15:48:54  <Zuu> Should be enough.
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15:53:56  <alandarev> how do I open cheats console?
15:55:07  <frosch123> ctrl alt c
15:55:20  <V453000> alf F4
15:56:19  <alandarev> V453000: don't be mean, i just need to bulldoze some cities for testing
15:56:36  <V453000> I am not mean I do it all the time myself
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16:12:32  <alandarev> how do I set server private?
16:12:37  <alandarev> dedicated
16:13:09  <frosch123> either not advertise, or set server password
16:13:26  <frosch123> both are in the config file i believe
16:13:32  <alandarev> which setting reflects it
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16:14:19  <frosch123> well, you just asked earlier how to enable advertise :)
16:14:32  <alandarev> :DD yes
16:14:47  <alandarev> and lan_internet 0/1 did not help, so I copied my windows config to the server and it worked
16:14:56  <alandarev> but now I want it to go 'shadow' for few hours
16:15:48  <frosch123> anyway, just use server_password and rcon_password
16:21:50  <alandarev> can server's rcon be accessed if rcon_passsword is not set?
16:22:00  <frosch123> no
16:22:08  <frosch123> well, via the start shell
16:22:47  <alandarev> frosch123: obviously. just wanted to know whether not having rcon_pass set is dangerous
16:23:09  <alandarev> so sad there are more servers than players :(
16:27:36  *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:31:49  <frosch123> andythenorth: pax, goods, petrol?
16:31:53  <frosch123> or does pax suck?
16:34:05  <frosch123> yeah, pax is stupid
16:35:04  <frosch123> oil is auto-lose in non-temperate, right? :p
16:35:16  <frosch123> 3 oilwells :p
16:35:30  <frosch123> mail :o
16:35:46  <andythenorth> frosch123: keep trying :)
16:35:53  <andythenorth> SV or NCG?
16:35:56  <frosch123> ncg
16:36:01  <frosch123> goods sugarcane fruit?
16:36:49  <andythenorth> yup
16:36:55  <andythenorth> anything involving a port makes life easy
16:37:50  <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/ncg20130401.sav <- that should to then
16:42:54  <frosch123> hmm, oh, 30k might be too low
16:46:08  <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/ncg20130401_2.sav <- 50k livestock, goods, chemicals
16:47:17  <andythenorth> ok
16:47:28  <andythenorth> none of those involve the port industry, but nvm :)
16:47:38  * andythenorth has to do bathtime and bedtime and such
16:48:02  <andythenorth> hmm, general store looks all wrong in tropic
16:48:09  <Alberth> good night andy :p
16:48:28  <andythenorth> ho ho funny :)
16:48:48  <frosch123> Alberth: he does not sleep, he medidates while playing ottd
16:48:56  <andythenorth> he bloody does sleep
16:49:00  <Alberth> ah, cool
16:49:04  <andythenorth> and he definitely doesn't play ottd much
16:49:14  <andythenorth> Belugas would know what I'm talking about
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16:57:00  <andythenorth> bbl
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17:04:58  <alandarev> can I give out money to people as a gameserver?
17:06:38  *** Donnie [~Donnie@113.14.174.102] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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17:10:33  <Zuu> alandarev: No, not unless you have made the money previously in a company. (either by earning it or using cheats in single player and then saving and loading it in MP)
17:10:56  <alandarev> how does Automatic Refit work?
17:35:45  <planetmaker> it only works, if the newgrf supports it. And if you set the orders accordingly
17:45:29  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25137 /trunk/src/lang (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-04-01 17:45:20 UTC)
17:45:30  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:31  <DorpsGek> faroese - 17 changes by FastNinja
17:45:33  <DorpsGek> galician - 38 changes by Michi
17:45:34  <DorpsGek> hungarian - 1 changes by IPG
17:45:35  <DorpsGek> vietnamese - 6 changes by nglekhoi
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17:59:48  <dudel> hi, anyone here may help me with some question regards patching ottd?
18:00:44  <Alberth> sure, is "how do you patch"  a good question for you?
18:00:48  *** Superuser [~superuser@host81-132-216-23.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
18:01:19  <Superuser> Guys... I hate to say this, but I see code being committed to the repos all the time. Why is my patch not committed?
18:01:33  <Superuser> Also, hi
18:01:44  <Alberth> dudel: don't ask meta-question, just ask what you want to know
18:04:27  <dudel> well, just tred the patchpack from chills as i like the old copy/paste thingy with templates (cant remember how to build connections :)) but unfortunally it seems that it crashes as soon as nocab ai comes into the game. now i tried to build my own ottd. but visual express gives and error when i load the ottd project into it
18:05:13  <Alberth> please paste the error in a pastebin
18:05:38  <dudel> it says it needs to convert the files as theyre from older visual xpress versions (im using 10.0) and that convertion gives an error when it converts the ott.vcproj files
18:06:10  <planetmaker> well. official openttd has project files for that
18:06:14  <planetmaker> afaik at least
18:06:15  *** dudel [4feed69c@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
18:06:35  <Alberth> that was quick :)
18:06:47  <planetmaker> lol
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18:09:57  <Superuser> Ignored. Again.
18:10:16  *** dudel [4feed69c@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
18:10:30  <Rubidium> Superuser: trying to find your patch, but... can't find it
18:10:31  <planetmaker> Superuser, it's a bit hard, you know. You require everyone to look up several places where you might have posted your patch
18:10:35  <dudel> woah sry internet went boom,
18:10:51  <planetmaker> and that then even covers the most common ones
18:13:39  <Alberth> Rubidium:  http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5496
18:17:24  <dudel> http://mibpaste.com/APKXUY
18:17:25  <Alberth> dudel: did you get the answer from planetmaker?
18:17:25  <Alberth> (08:06:11 PM) planetmaker: well. official openttd has project files for that
18:17:25  <Alberth> (08:06:14 PM) planetmaker: afaik at least
18:17:28  <Superuser> oh yay someone paid attention to me :3
18:17:32  <dudel> thats the error i get from cinverting
18:17:44  <Superuser> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5496?project=1&opened=2269
18:17:46  <Superuser> right there
18:19:10  <dudel> my guess it has something to do with my 64bit win7 but im a total noob in programming or anything related :)
18:19:41  <planetmaker> dudel, but you managed already to compile unmodified OpenTTD?
18:19:47  <planetmaker> If the answer is 'no', please start with that
18:20:00  <Alberth> Superuser: I also explained yesterday? that everything but the Ship change is somewhat doubtful in my view
18:20:13  <dudel> no i didn, that error accours when i try to compile an unmodfidied ottd^^
18:20:15  <Superuser> Yesterday? I wasn't even on yesterday
18:20:28  <Alberth> the day before yesterday then
18:20:32  <planetmaker> dudel, chillpp is not unmodified
18:20:42  <planetmaker> or did I misunderstand you?
18:21:23  <planetmaker> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/shortlog
18:21:26  <dudel> mixed it up a bit. the chillpp i downloaded as binary .rar file
18:21:49  <dudel> but as that one crashes when i try to paste a template ingame
18:21:51  <Superuser> well, I ran through every single one of those changes alberth with the IRC channel
18:21:52  <planetmaker> Yes... try first to compile OpenTTD. Not a patch-pack which is not maintained anymore
18:22:02  <Superuser> and they were all accepted, so...
18:22:07  <dudel> i tried to compile it on my own with the new version
18:22:39  <Alberth> dudel: are you sure you installed a 64bit version, "Failed to upgrade platform 'x64'. Please make sure you have it installed under '%vctargetspath%\platforms\x64'"  makes me doubt you did that
18:22:40  <dudel> that it, compiling doesnt work, even for normal unpatched ottd
18:23:12  <planetmaker> ok. good. which version do you try to compile?
18:24:05  <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_Windows_using_Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008/2010 does that help maybe?
18:24:17  <planetmaker> there's an extra part on 64bit windows
18:24:21  <dudel> alberth, im not sure, but there ( http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/deu/downloads#d-2010-express) you can only choose language, not 32 or 64bit
18:24:26  <planetmaker> maybe that's missing. Not exactly sure, though
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18:24:39  <andythenorth> frosch123: hi hi, so 1.3.0?
18:24:40  <planetmaker> o/ andythenorth
18:24:42  <planetmaker> server's running
18:24:45  <planetmaker> game loaded
18:25:00  <planetmaker> nightly server with 1.3.0
18:25:03  <andythenorth> ta
18:25:24  <dudel> i cant do the 64bit part
18:25:54  <dudel>     AMD64.VCPlatform.Config     VCProjectEngine.dll.Express  <- my visual xpress 2010 doesn have those files
18:25:56  <andythenorth> ooh
18:25:58  <andythenorth> funny title game :)
18:27:35  <dudel> probably its just easier to ignore the copy/pasty templates and trying to learn how to build those connections out of nowhere :)
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18:35:47  <Zuu> Even if I run trunk musa, I cannot get it to take my gs.tar as input. Shouldn't it be able to read my input file and then later bail out because GS type is not supported?
18:35:48  <Zuu> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/irahJNbBcaXKwwEVc5ry/
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18:38:11  <Zuu> It also fails when I do: ../../musa/musa.py -d -c musa/gs.ini *.nut lang/*.txt
18:38:37  <Zuu> (or if I run cmd.exe without bash and use \ instead of /)
18:48:19  *** RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
18:48:52  * Zuu fixed that issue
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19:16:38  <dudel> hmm
19:17:04  <dudel> i can get it converted now ( seems like i just forgot to install something) but compiling still fails
19:23:10  <michi_cc> dudel: Open openttd_vs100.sln, that is already for VS2010
19:24:14  <Eddi|zuHause> so why it's not called vs2010.sln? would make things a lot easier to remember
19:25:02  <dudel> hmm okay
19:25:06  <dudel> trying that one
19:26:40  <Ristovski> http://www.debian.org/ ,lol
19:27:31  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: because the compiler is actually version 9.0 or 10.0, and vs2008/vs2010 is just a pretty name
19:27:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes, but why use a name for something that nobody uses?
19:28:52  <Rubidium> this version is part of the path where the (default) libraries are
19:29:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it's like calling it "Windows 5.1.2600" instead of "Windows XP SP2" or something
19:30:13  <Eddi|zuHause> while it's technically a correct name (modulo the numbers being correct), but nobody that is not very deeply involved will know that name
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19:32:18  <dudel> hmm okay still doesnt get it
19:33:57  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I don't really care about the name, but someone chose this method and deviating from it makes things inconsistent or breaks things (CF)
19:34:24  <Rubidium> anyhow, are you using Linux Unicycling Gorilla?
19:36:23  <dudel> seems like im too dumb to compile ottd -_-
19:36:43  <Rubidium> probably back in the time when visual studio still used version numbers instead of marketing names
19:38:40  <michi_cc> dudel: Added openttd-useful and the directmusic headers?
19:39:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that was VS 6
19:39:24  <michi_cc> Other than that, start with the very first error, it will probably tell you exactly what is wrong.
19:39:32  <dudel> where to add them?
19:43:19  <dudel> probably i got it wrong with the addition of those headers and the useful.zip
19:44:40  <glx>  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that was VS 6 <-- followed by 2003, 2005, 2008, 2010 and 2012
19:45:09  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
19:45:36  <glx> it was 2003.net or something IIRC
19:46:32  <glx> anyway dudel, just follow the steps on the wiki and it should compile
19:46:52  <dudel> i did, and it doesnt :)
19:46:53  <glx> http://wiki.openttd.org/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008_Express_Editions
19:46:57  <dudel> doing something wrong
19:48:40  <dudel> do i have to put the files from the zip under "Microsoft® DirectX SDK" together with the "openttd-usefull.zip" ?
19:50:04  <michi_cc> dudel: http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_Windows_using_Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008/2010#Visual_C.2B.2B_Express_2010
19:50:16  <glx> using 2012 is easier for 64bit target
19:50:29  <michi_cc> For DirectMusic you can download http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=118839&sid=554843a58fb26683eeacb7642ea2446d and drop it into the openttd-useful include folder as well
19:50:46  <glx> 64bit compilers are finally included with the install
19:50:57  <michi_cc> glx: 2012 fails because we still didn't fix/revert our #define inline.
19:51:03  <dudel> y i already got that one, but didn included it into the usefull folder
19:51:33  <michi_cc> You could also add it as a second folder to the configuration, but just throwing it in is easert.
19:51:42  <glx> hmm right I still uses platform sdk for openttd
19:56:12  <dudel> okay trying another compile now with merged music and usefull thingy
19:56:17  <Zuu> Next fun issue. os.stat(filename).st_size returns a smaller size than can be read using read() on my system or something else is wrong ...
19:58:08  <Zuu> Musa has code that verify that read() read exactly the amount of bytes that os.stat(filename).st_size returns, which do not end up the same on my system.
19:59:05  <Zuu> About 312 bytes are missing
20:00:19  <dudel> okay its generating code, thats takin way longer than before
20:01:39  <Zuu> Code generation in visual studio takes quite a lot more time when building release builds compared to debug builds.
20:02:12  <dudel> well before it didn even generated code, so its a step forward for me :)
20:02:22  <TinoDidriksen> Yup, since VC++ does link-time optimization (whole program optimization).
20:02:30  <dudel> are there any differences between debug and release build?
20:05:04  <dudel> hmm okay i think it compiled but...
20:05:20  <dudel> where does it save my compiled ottd? lol -_-
20:06:34  <glx> just press f5
20:06:42  <glx> to check it works
20:09:10  <glx> else openttd.exe is in objs\{platform}\{config} (platform is win32 or x64, config is debug or release)
20:09:48  <dudel> kay thanks :D
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20:15:53  <dudel> hmm okay when im trying to start the ottd.exe it cries about a missing language file -_-
20:16:24  <dudel> but pressing f5 in visual works..
20:17:35  <glx> good, just copy the exe from objs to bin
20:17:50  <glx> and you'll be able to run it without msvc
20:18:06  <Zuu> I have trouble to get md5sum of files in the filesystem to work in musa. It may be connected to the above issue which I've now just ignored.
20:18:07  <Zuu> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/QGN5eAEI53RM62GMk8Wx/
20:18:31  <Zuu> The paste shows first md5sum computed from filesystem files and then md5sum computed from files inside the tar.
20:18:44  <Zuu> Last I compute md5sum using a md5sum tool.
20:18:49  <dudel> ah great, thanks, so ok i compiled a standart ottd version, now lets see if i can get the copy/paste thingy stable :D
20:19:09  <Zuu> The md5sum for the files when inside a tar appear to work fine, but not the files out in the file system.
20:20:04  <Zuu> My modifications are here: http://devs.openttd.org/~zuu/musa.patch
20:22:01  <Zuu> Does anyone have a clue what is wrong? :-)
20:22:50  <Zuu> Eg. why doesn't the md5sums match?
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20:28:10  <V453000> thanks for the quick bugfix :)
20:35:43  <planetmaker> V453000, it was already fixed :-P
20:35:53  <V453000> still
20:36:03  <V453000> reacting and stuff :)
20:38:16  <Alberth> Zuu: not reading the file in binary mode?
20:39:47  <Zuu> Alberth: could be
20:42:03  <Zuu> Yes that was it.
20:42:18  <Zuu> That will cause uploading base graphics from Windows to fail with current musa.
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20:48:59  <frosch123> night
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20:49:45  <andythenorth> bye
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20:53:26  <Zuu> Updated musa.patch verifies correctly on the client. :-)
21:08:43  <GauHelldragon> april fools!!
21:14:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i've been so busy with easter, i've only read one april fools joke today...
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21:19:35  <GauHelldragon> 100% guaranteed made in new zealand
21:22:54  <Rubidium> Zuu: what's the reason for the delete=False and related changes in musa.py?
21:23:21  <Rubidium> as now it'll keep the file if an exception occurs, which could fill the dist pretty quickly
21:24:06  <Rubidium> +		if scanning == 3 and line.find('/*') != -1: # watch out for // ".."
21:24:20  <Rubidium> comment and code do not agree
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21:28:48  <Zuu> Rubidium: Without delete=False, the temporary file gets deleted too early on Windows.
21:29:02  <Rubidium> Zuu: license.txt should be added via the ini, so it shouldn't be in the package_script code as such
21:29:36  <Zuu> ok
21:31:11  <Rubidium> Zuu: likewise with readme.txt and changes.txt; they are added via package_text
21:31:29  <Rubidium> and should be called readme.txt and changelog.txt
21:31:51  <Rubidium> possibly with language extensions (readme_de.txt)
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21:32:08  <LordAro> woo, language extensions :)
21:32:12  * LordAro hides again
21:32:59  <Zuu> Rubidium: neither --help or example.ini mention how to add readme.txt or changes.txt.
21:33:46  <Rubidium> I had to look as well, but since I couldn't find it being added specifically in the grf/base set code, I suspected it to be somewhere else ;)
21:34:18  <Rubidium> s/changes/changelog/
21:34:36  <Rubidium> but yeah, that could/should be documented... probably in a man page instead of in the --help
21:34:45  <Rubidium> or a readme.txt
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21:36:27  <Zuu> Hmm, when I supply those .txt files, they do no longer show up as unpackaged files.
21:36:47  <Zuu> That is, when I supply readme.txt via CLI
21:37:05  <Rubidium> ugh... more bugs?
21:37:14  <Rubidium> could very well be
21:37:18  <Zuu> musa.py -d -c mycfg.ini *.nut readme.txt changes.txt lang/*.txt
21:37:34  <Zuu> (yes I know you want me to rename the changelog file, but that is what it is called at the moment ;-) )
21:37:42  <Rubidium> it wasn't very well tested
21:38:41  <Zuu> If I add chapter_plan.txt via CLI it will list it as "unpackaged". So I assume it do add the readme.txt and changes.txt to the tar.
21:38:45  <Rubidium> Zuu: it needs to be called differently if it is of any use in the tar (=openttd)
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21:39:16  <Zuu> Rubidium: Ok
21:39:27  <Rubidium> but as I said, that part might not have been very well tested as I didn't have an use for it (yet)
21:40:48  <Rubidium> it was mostly written to get the damn zbase into bananas
21:41:41  <Zuu> ok
21:42:00  <Rubidium> though based on the code it should add them to the tar (so something fishy might be up)
21:42:24  <Zuu> I've updated musa.patch to fix '/*' => '//' and no longer have special handling for readme, changes and license.txt for scripts.
21:43:03  <Rubidium> it does assume all lowercase though, without forcing it to lowercase for tests
21:43:49  <Rubidium> though for consistency that's probably wise, i.e. Readme.txt wouldn't work on Linux but does on Windows
21:44:39  <Zuu> Actually, loading a file via the OpenTTD console requires typing the correct case also in Windows.
21:44:48  <Zuu> s/file/save game/
21:45:16  <Zuu> So it is not that inconsistent to require the correct case also on Windows. And as you say, it will save Linux users from trouble.
21:46:50  <Rubidium> you haven't fixed the failure to close+remove the tar upon an exception in musa.py, though that's tricky because what should happen in the exception handler if the tar file creation fails?!?
21:47:12  <Zuu> I don't know if my patch is 100% correct as I don't have full understanding of musa. One remaining thing I know of is that it doesn't block you from uploading a GS as an AI.
21:49:11  <LordAro> night all, have fun Rubidium/Zuu :)
21:49:18  <Rubidium> good idea LordAro
21:49:20  <Rubidium> night
21:49:27  <LordAro> lol :)
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21:50:19  <Zuu> night Rubidium
21:55:59  <Zuu> Patch updated with respect to handling exceptions and still removing the temp file.
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