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00:07:39 *** maravilla [~maravilla@190.194.100.60] has joined #openttd 00:08:08 <maravilla> Hey 00:08:19 <Supercheese> salve 00:09:50 <maravilla> OpenTTD rules! 00:10:11 <Supercheese> it does indeed 00:11:31 <maravilla> I don't play it for the efficiency or the whole railroad engineering, I just like the competition 00:12:14 <maravilla> sadly that's a game killer, because it gets easy to be #1 in little time in single player 00:12:57 <Supercheese> people often use various newgrfs to make things harder, or play multiplayer for interpersonal competetion 00:13:00 <maravilla> or to amass a fortune that just feeds in itself 00:13:31 <Supercheese> of course, making things harder for you also makes things harder for the AI 00:13:35 <Supercheese> if you use AIs 00:13:44 <maravilla> Oh yeah, multiplayer is a great feature. It's long too D: 00:14:40 <maravilla> Yeah some AIs that very self sustainable 00:16:05 <maravilla> -that 00:18:01 <maravilla> sometimes I wish the game had more of the bad-roots-of-capitalism side of things 00:18:25 <maravilla> like Pizza Tycoon did. Ever played that game? 00:18:43 <Supercheese> Hah, I never played it but I saw it a lot back in the day 00:19:20 <Supercheese> OTTD goal scripts are nice I hear 00:19:24 <Supercheese> I really should try one some time 00:20:29 <maravilla> goal scripts? 00:20:53 <Supercheese> yeah, like "transport certain amounts of stuff in certain timeframes" 00:21:02 <Supercheese> or "feed towns with cargo so they can grow" 00:21:10 <Supercheese> oversimplified descriptions but still 00:21:14 <maravilla> Aha 00:21:31 <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=62212 00:21:35 <Supercheese> for example that 00:21:35 <maravilla> Like more complex subsidies? 00:21:58 <Supercheese> without any rewards other than "you win", essentially yeah 00:23:25 <Supercheese> Also http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=62556 00:24:30 <maravilla> Hmm, cool 00:29:43 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:55 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 00:31:30 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.54.92] has joined #openttd 00:35:58 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.54.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:38:58 <maravilla> Has anyone ever experimented with a politics system for OpenTTD? Having borders (therefore countries), states (as in governments of those countries), taxes, multiple economies, etc. Kinda like in Railroad Tycoon 00:41:44 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:56 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 00:46:16 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C36BA.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 01:04:31 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 01:04:31 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:18 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 01:18:33 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.71.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i once had a somewhat working prototype of making borders with a voronoi partition of the cities 01:40:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the idea was that you have (depending on map size/amount of cities) several administrative layers (country, province, ...) which each have their own local economy 01:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but i didn't get that far 01:56:01 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 02:01:30 *** Dark-Ace-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.54.92] has joined #openttd 02:01:30 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:20 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 02:05:53 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.54.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:11:21 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:11:24 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 02:12:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D154.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:57 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-15-88.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:19:54 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.110.110] has joined #openttd 02:27:44 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 02:39:59 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-084-090.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 02:39:59 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:38 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 02:44:44 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-162.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:51:12 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-162.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 03:08:59 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.110.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:43:01 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43:12 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 04:25:14 *** maravilla [~maravilla@190.194.100.60] has quit [] 04:33:05 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:16 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 04:48:48 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 04:48:48 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6705A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4B76.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:21:08 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> oxygen.oftc.net quits: JdGordon|, lobster, @orudge, confound, Hirundo 05:22:54 *** Netsplit over, joins: @orudge, lobster, JdGordon|, confound, Hirundo 05:25:33 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 05:29:19 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 05:29:19 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:37:46 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 06:51:22 *** sla_ro|master [~slamaster@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 06:54:57 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1893A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:00:37 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 07:04:39 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-162.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 07:27:20 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:37:44 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-058-116.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:18:01 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 09:10:58 <juzza1> someone wanna give me some feedback? as bluntly as possible please 09:11:09 <juzza1> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9usRKUv7vK5Y0F6M1ZsVlBiMUE/edit?usp=sharing is supposed to look like http://www.vaunut.org/kuva/41366?tag0=11|Taimn| 09:14:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DD68.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:20:18 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:26:08 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 09:30:00 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:38:21 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:43:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DD68.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:54 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3817.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:28:49 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 10:37:56 *** HellTiger [~HellTiger@43-54.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 10:47:36 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd924.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:58:35 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:05:25 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has joined #openttd 11:05:37 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:25:25 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:26:50 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.80] has joined #openttd 11:36:56 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:37:31 *** Ristovski [~rafael@78.157.7.34] has joined #openttd 11:42:25 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.54.92] has joined #openttd 11:47:30 *** Dark-Ace-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.54.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:54:45 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:58:38 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 12:18:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DD68.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:22:20 *** Ristovski_ [~rafael@78.157.7.34] has joined #openttd 12:22:35 *** Ristovski [~rafael@78.157.7.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:35:54 *** Devroush367 [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:38:36 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:49:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25220 trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp (2013-05-06 12:49:04 UTC) 12:49:10 <DorpsGek> -Change [FS#Eddi]: Consider map border as water wrt. river/canal continuation. 12:49:38 <planetmaker> oh :-) 12:50:04 <planetmaker> water patches indeed suit you well, frosch123 ;-) 12:50:13 <frosch123> :p 12:50:15 <planetmaker> especially if it means more water ;-) 12:54:51 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/index.php?source=water_var82.diff still needs testing. I don't yet have sprites to check properly 12:55:01 <frosch123> compile farm burped 12:55:07 <frosch123> i bet because of the translation 12:55:13 <planetmaker> gaelic is broken 12:55:31 <frosch123> yeah, but wt3 has already modifications, so i do not dare to fix it via svn :) 12:55:32 <planetmaker> trunk/src/lang/gaelic.txt:5074: FATAL: Command 'DATE_TINY' can't have a case 12:55:41 <planetmaker> oh, ok 12:57:04 <planetmaker> hm, the linked patch definitely misses a return ;-) 13:04:39 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.100.185] has joined #openttd 13:05:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25221 /trunk/src (newgrf_station.cpp station_map.h) (2013-05-06 13:05:04 UTC) 13:05:10 <DorpsGek> -Fix: IsCompatibleTrainStationTile() is not a symmetric function. Clarify the parameters and fix the cases were they were swapped. 13:07:14 <planetmaker> fs#5542? 13:07:30 <frosch123> not quite 13:07:53 <frosch123> rather something i noted to look at, but likely related :p 13:08:18 <frosch123> your TILE_ADDXY order seems to match the one of ttdp :) 13:08:37 <planetmaker> it matches your quote from yesterday :-P 13:09:01 <frosch123> well, but if you translate in one direction, and then back, you might compare begin and end :) 13:09:38 <frosch123> http://projects.tt-forums.net/projects/ttdpatch/repository/entry/trunk/patches/water.asm#L915 13:11:03 <planetmaker> not sure I get what you try to tell me :-) 13:11:26 <frosch123> there are a number of -1 and +1 in the ttdp source and in your diff :) 13:11:49 <planetmaker> yes. Though the numbers in my patch come from OpenTTD source really 13:12:01 <frosch123> i translated them to directions, and you translated the directions back to -1/+1 :) 13:12:14 <planetmaker> yes, that I did :-) 13:15:48 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.71.156] has joined #openttd 13:23:55 <planetmaker> maybe nice to add the documentation as found there... (updated diff) 13:25:00 <frosch123> not sure about that :p 13:25:28 <frosch123> i have no idea how to read that comment without reading the source 13:25:36 <frosch123> it has weird numbering and a weird orientation 13:25:52 <planetmaker> yes... orientation will need adoption. As will numbering 13:26:30 <frosch123> not sure how useful the line number is, you could name the function "getdikemap" 13:26:36 <frosch123> unless you consider ttdp source stable :p 13:26:48 <planetmaker> I do, yes 13:27:49 <planetmaker> but I'll quote a specific version. That's feasible 13:28:16 <planetmaker> http://projects.tt-forums.net/projects/ttdpatch/repository/revisions/2367/entry/trunk/patches/water.asm#L879 13:29:04 <planetmaker> Though with up = North, and proper bit numbering (starting at 0), it has no similarity anymore :-P 13:29:24 <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2264/ <- feels easiest to me 13:30:03 <planetmaker> good suggestion. I'll use it 13:32:28 <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2265/ <- or if you want something more fancy :p 13:32:36 <__ln___> http://www.satakunnankansa.fi/Satakunta/1194811830824/artikkeli/juuri+nyt+yksi+menehtyi+pakettiauton+ja+junan+tormayksessa+raumalla.html 13:32:36 <frosch123> but does not necessarily improve readability :p 13:32:45 <planetmaker> indeed not. Diff updated 13:32:53 <planetmaker> I'll try to test it tonight by creating a test grf 13:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that does not look healthy at all 13:40:03 <planetmaker> with respect to map borders? 13:40:07 <planetmaker> possibly 13:40:36 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i meant __ln___'s picture 13:43:57 <planetmaker> ah. Yes. Operation outside the specs, I assume ;-) 13:46:04 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25222 trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp (2013-05-06 13:45:58 UTC) 13:46:05 <DorpsGek> -Change: Unify the behaviour of Vehicle::tick_counter between RV and trains by incrementing it also for articulated RV parts. 13:50:14 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@axigy2.torservers.net] has joined #openttd 13:52:49 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:56:47 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:59:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25223 trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp (2013-05-06 13:59:11 UTC) 13:59:18 <DorpsGek> -Change: [NewGRF] Unify the behaviour of Aircraft::tick_counter with other vehicle types and increment it once per tick. (instead of twice like before, or six times like in r0) 13:59:32 <planetmaker> lol 14:01:43 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:04:21 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:04:24 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but you break aircraft animation!! :p 14:04:49 <planetmaker> occasionally one must be evil. Or the fame will decay 14:04:56 <frosch123> nope 14:05:11 <frosch123> aircraft smoke is broken as much as before 14:05:33 <frosch123> and vehicle sound effects are as well, but not they are a bit more sane :) 14:07:05 <planetmaker> :-) 14:07:23 <oskari892> Eddi|zuhause: Maybe someone could implement breaking train when level crossing accident happens in OpenTTD? :P 14:07:51 <planetmaker> oskari892, that'll introduce griefing the other way around, too ;-) 14:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely rember a patch like this 14:08:12 <planetmaker> (for really little benefit, imho) 14:08:14 <oskari892> Result of that __ln___:ns news http://ls24.fi/jutut/rauma-ja-alue/juttu-yksi-henkilo-menehtyi-tasoristeysturmassa-ayholla seems that of OpenTTD's train crash, locomotive gone grey 14:08:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25224 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2013-05-06 14:08:27 UTC) 14:08:33 <DorpsGek> -Fix [part of FS#5534]: cur_speed is only valid for the front engine, so make other engines in the consist use the speed of the front. 14:09:01 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: ttdp allowed trains to break down in such cases 14:09:11 <frosch123> rv crashes, trains breaks down 14:09:26 <oskari892> :) 14:09:38 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and around the time of MiniIN it was discussed to include that as well 14:10:27 <oskari892> The fireball doesn't burn train in current behaviour :P 14:12:33 <frosch123> are vehicles supposed to play the "idle" sound, when they are stopped? 14:12:54 <oskari892> Yes 14:13:04 <frosch123> also when stopped in depot? 14:13:13 <planetmaker> uh.. hm... 14:13:22 <frosch123> you build 10 new engines, and the depot is making noise like hell? :p 14:13:24 <planetmaker> I'd think not 14:13:38 <planetmaker> depots are houses. Sound-proof houses ;-) 14:13:44 <frosch123> oskari892: i mean stopped as in red flag, not stopped as in waiting 14:14:14 <oskari892> I think yes, unless in a depot 14:14:44 <oskari892> Finnish Trainset uses code to disable effect 08 in a depot 14:15:23 <oskari892> Otherwise, it's effect 08 always, when consist is standing still 14:15:55 <oskari892> Regardless of stopped by flag, PBS or block signal 14:16:04 <oskari892> Or waiting for load 14:16:22 <planetmaker> for that there's reason to play different sounds 14:16:55 <frosch123> ttdp says, no sound 7 and 8 when stopped or inside tunnel 14:17:12 <frosch123> err, confusing numbers :s 14:17:25 <oskari892> Yes they are 14:17:32 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: "idle" should be "running at speed 0", so "stopped" should not make any sound 14:17:48 <oskari892> It should be effect 08 on that case 14:17:57 <frosch123> the montion effect 4 is not called inside tunnels 14:18:02 <frosch123> the others are :s 14:18:04 <frosch123> how weird 14:18:14 <frosch123> let's ignore ttdp in that case :) 14:18:20 <oskari892> Yes :P 14:18:36 <frosch123> so, what to do in ottd, and what to blame no the grf? 14:18:53 <planetmaker> inside tunnels: no sound 14:19:00 <planetmaker> inside depot: no sound 14:19:09 <oskari892> Yep 14:19:21 <frosch123> we have special cases: crashed, stopped in depot, stopped with red flag, braking, running at speed 0, running at speed > 0 14:19:33 <oskari892> Crashed: no sound at all 14:20:02 <planetmaker> it should remain allowed to play sound 14:20:23 <planetmaker> frosch123, I'm missing "loading / unloading" as separate item 14:21:01 <oskari892> Loading/unloading should play together with 08 14:21:28 <oskari892> Stopped in a depot: no sound at all 14:21:31 <planetmaker> the sound numbers don#t tell me anything 14:21:53 <oskari892> see newgrfspecs 14:22:14 <oskari892> or thread: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=65649&p=1076101#p1076101 14:22:25 <planetmaker> ty 14:22:30 <oskari892> Whoops, this http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=65649&p=1076101#p1076101 14:22:33 <planetmaker> right, those numbers 14:23:11 <oskari892> Stopped with red flag should return 08 14:23:51 <oskari892> Braking hasn't got any effect yet, current behaviour is 07 14:24:03 <oskari892> (should it be changed to 08?) 14:24:16 <frosch123> yeah, we considered that the other day :) 14:24:19 <frosch123> thus why i am asking 14:24:54 <oskari892> Running at speed 0 is easy case: 08, since it's basically stopped 14:25:18 <oskari892> Running at speed >0 is easy case too, 07 14:25:29 <planetmaker> why not 04? 14:25:50 <frosch123> 04 is independent from 07 an d08 14:25:50 <oskari892> Because then sound effects will break 14:26:18 <frosch123> the only thing to decide about 04 is to skip it inside tunnels 14:26:23 <frosch123> it does not happen in the other cases anyway 14:26:31 <planetmaker> ok 14:26:55 <frosch123> 07/08 is about tunnels/depots/redflag 14:27:12 <frosch123> well, only 08 actually :) 14:27:36 <frosch123> i think it should be silent when redflag 14:27:41 <frosch123> redflag is powered off 14:28:02 <oskari892> But then locomotives aren't idling 14:28:17 <frosch123> redflag != redsignal 14:28:19 <planetmaker> yes. But I feel also that red flag = power off 14:28:29 <planetmaker> signal stop or speed 0 w/o red flag = idle 14:29:11 <oskari892> But then locomotives could also have "power on"/"power off" sounds 14:29:30 <oskari892> I think red flag is 08, easiest way 14:30:00 <oskari892> It's current way and i'm happy with it 14:30:07 <planetmaker> why would a powered-off engine make sound? 14:30:17 <oskari892> Because of idling engine? :) 14:30:31 <planetmaker> or an engine parked in a train yard? It's after all NOT idling. It's standing. No power 14:30:52 <planetmaker> Idling is what you do in a station, at a signal etc. 14:30:57 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:31:18 <planetmaker> or does your car idle all night while you sleep? I don't think so 14:31:24 <oskari892> Could that be a switch so one could decide him/herself? 14:31:35 <planetmaker> tmwftlb 14:31:47 <oskari892> Red flag sound behaviour: 08/no sound? 14:31:56 <planetmaker> oskari892, how often do you use the red flag? 14:32:12 <planetmaker> outside depots 14:32:16 <oskari892> To stop something from happening? :P 14:32:30 <planetmaker> yes. And how relevant is that wrt total trains? 14:32:48 <planetmaker> it's like 1 / 500 in numbers. And 15 minutes / 10 hours. Or so 14:33:08 <planetmaker> and it's power off. Thus illogical to call it 'idle' 14:34:02 <oskari892> Could it also have "powered up/powered down sounds" then, if power off=no sound? :) 14:34:12 <planetmaker> yes. red flag = powered down. 14:34:12 <oskari892> Such as locomotive engine starting 14:34:16 <planetmaker> that's the definition really 14:34:35 <planetmaker> and a rock makes no sound except in earth quakes ;-) 14:34:54 <planetmaker> it could have those sounds. But ... that's a feature :-P 14:35:48 <oskari892> :P 14:35:56 <oskari892> Braking could be 08? 14:36:00 <planetmaker> but please convince me: why do you want to treat idling at a signal the same as powered off in a train yard? 14:36:45 <planetmaker> and as I understand it, you can't re-define the meaning of the existing numbers really. Unless it's not used anywhere 14:36:53 <oskari892> Well, at least here some years ago, those locomotives were _idling_ and standing there 14:37:02 <planetmaker> which of course is frosch's question ;-) 14:37:31 <oskari892> (speaking of locomotives sitting on yard) 14:37:46 <oskari892> Putting off smoke :P 14:37:52 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [Verlassend] 14:37:58 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:38:01 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 14:38:10 <planetmaker> hmpf... focus with mouse over has sometimes disadvanteges :-P 14:38:40 <frosch123> everything has disadvantages :) 14:38:50 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.71.156] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:38:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i have more problems when the window with the mouse in it does not have focus 14:39:03 <Eddi|zuHause> like after drag&drop happens a lot 14:39:11 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes, I have then more problems, too ;-) 14:40:39 <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2266/ <- that's what i have now 14:40:49 <frosch123> depot, tunnel, crashed: no sound no matter what 14:41:08 <frosch123> braking: effect 08 instead of 07 14:41:16 <frosch123> redflag: 08, up to the grf to not play it 14:41:26 <oskari892> Yes, 14:41:36 <oskari892> good behaviour that way :) 14:42:02 <planetmaker> I maintain the argument that sound while power off makes no sense :-) 14:42:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i agree with planetmaker 14:42:16 <oskari892> Planetmaker: Think about this case: 14:42:27 <oskari892> Train is stopped on line using red flag 14:43:07 <planetmaker> good. thought about it. I keep up my argument :-) 14:43:11 <oskari892> After you press green flag AND it has free way to go, it's straight jump to running sound 14:43:13 <Eddi|zuHause> people use "red flag" stopping for simulated railway museums and stuff 14:43:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it should not play sounds 14:43:45 <oskari892> Grf could disable it if wanted 14:43:53 <oskari892> Or enable it if wanted? :P 14:44:06 <oskari892> Could it be that way, everyone is happy? 14:44:22 <planetmaker> rather they should get the chance to play a powering-on or powering-off sound. 14:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see any use-case where stopped trains making sounds would be useful 14:44:36 <planetmaker> but I only use red flag i nthe way eddi describes 14:44:47 <planetmaker> thus it makes no sense to have sound for stopped available by default at all 14:45:03 *** sla_ro|master [~slamaster@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: connection reset by myself] 14:45:07 <oskari892> Stopped= red flag 14:45:15 <oskari892> Not the idle 14:45:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 14:45:26 <planetmaker> yes 14:45:54 <Eddi|zuHause> well, people use stopping to rebuild junctions and stuff as well :) 14:46:11 *** sla_ro|master [~slamaster@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 14:46:21 <planetmaker> there it suffices to stop one train. And the queue of 100 trains waiting will create sufficient idle sounds ;-) 14:46:37 <oskari892> :P 14:47:12 <planetmaker> yes. think about it 14:47:46 <planetmaker> thus this case where a stopped train blocks the line, has virtually no sound impact due to jam 14:47:56 <planetmaker> while it's not sensible in all other use cases I can come up with 14:48:37 <oskari892> Usually there are single locomotives waiting for train, in "idle" state here 14:48:46 <oskari892> Not powered off 14:49:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but those are timetabled wait times, not "stopped" 14:49:33 <oskari892> Could it be best compromice to redflag = no sound, up to grf to enable it if wanted? 14:49:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so 14:50:39 <planetmaker> oskari892, that really goes on a tangent and does not address the question 14:52:00 <oskari892> You could have a timetabled wait for "long time" and have a idle sound without stopped state? 14:52:37 <oskari892> I meant on order list 14:52:39 <planetmaker> you can timetable your wait for as long as you want... 14:52:44 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.71.156] has joined #openttd 14:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> max timetable time is 65535 ticks (around 2 game years) 14:53:48 <planetmaker> :-) 14:54:22 <oskari892> And you could have just one station on a orders list :P 14:54:37 <planetmaker> could? sometimes do. 14:54:57 <planetmaker> if you know how to play the path finder, it allows self-regulating networks 14:55:05 <planetmaker> with always the right amount of trains at a station 14:55:14 <planetmaker> and a nice amount of buffer trains 14:55:21 <planetmaker> in a depot 14:55:48 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: unless daylenth is in effect, then it might be like one day ;) 14:56:51 <Eddi|zuHause> at least one person wanted to timetable a longer wait time :p 14:57:22 <oskari892> But let's continue at the sfx discussion 14:57:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25225 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2013-05-06 14:57:42 UTC) 14:57:49 <DorpsGek> -Fix: [NewGRF] Play vehicle sound effect also for planes. 14:57:49 <oskari892> Waiting on any signal, regardless of signal type, should be effect 08 14:58:04 <planetmaker> every speed = 0 when not red flag ;-) 14:58:50 <Eddi|zuHause> oskari892: you haven't really paid attention? 14:59:31 <planetmaker> biab 14:59:55 <oskari892> Eddi|zuhause: i have :P 15:02:13 <oskari892> But forgot that it was already discussed. 15:02:22 <frosch123> well, i guess. playing a sound when stopped and not intentional is more annoying, than missing sound when stopped but desired 15:04:30 <oskari892> :( 15:04:39 <oskari892> I'll miss that :P 15:08:08 <oskari892> frosch123: And the second thing, "running sound to be called from all vehicles in the consist, including wagons, articulated parts and rear-heads." 15:08:12 <Eddi|zuHause> well you can patch your game :p 15:08:37 <frosch123> oskari892: i hope to get hold of pikka wrt. that first 15:09:19 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 15:09:29 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25226 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2013-05-06 15:09:21 UTC) 15:09:29 <oskari892> Current behaviour (only for front) leads to not so nice situations 15:09:30 <DorpsGek> -Fix/Change [FS#5538]: [NewGRF] Revise when vehicle running sound effects 04, 07 and 08 are played. 15:09:31 <DorpsGek> In depot or tunnel, or when crashed or stopped: No sound. 15:09:32 <DorpsGek> Braking: Effect 08 instead of 07. 15:11:19 <planetmaker> back 15:11:55 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:12:20 <oskari892> frosch123: PM him? 15:15:49 <alluke> @oskari892 15:16:29 <alluke> make all midcab locos able to turn around via ctrl-click 15:16:42 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:16:50 <oskari892> They do? 15:16:55 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.71.156] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:17:09 <oskari892> Or which don't? 15:17:11 <juzza1> i only have it on dv12 and pr1 atm 15:17:24 <alluke> yep 15:17:44 <alluke> i also thing the series refit is too much hassle 15:17:51 <oskari892> Nope 15:17:56 <alluke> series by random would be better imho 15:18:00 <oskari892> You can ignore it if wanted 15:18:02 <oskari892> :P 15:18:10 <alluke> you can buy three 1700-series and sell the rest 15:18:19 <alluke> 2700* 15:18:31 <juzza1> i dont see the problem when the default behaviour is like IRL 15:18:45 <oskari892> It will be implemented current way 15:19:30 <oskari892> If one doesn't want to use refits, (s)he doesn't 15:21:23 <alluke> why do sm1 and 2 have different windows? 15:21:46 <alluke> they are pretty similar irl 15:21:47 <alluke> http://helsinki.trumanb.net/wp-content/gallery/vr-sm1/a_sm1-60146214.jpg 15:23:13 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@84.40.82.221] has joined #openttd 15:23:27 *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ 15:23:29 <oskari892> alluke: ask purno, he did those :P 15:23:37 <alluke> doh 15:28:10 <oskari892> Seems that ones with smaller windows do have right amount of windows... which don't look good, since the 32px limit 15:28:36 <oskari892> Could be tricked to 40px, but not in near future 15:29:04 <Eddi|zuHause> *hÃŒstel* 15:29:06 <oskari892> That would also cover everything else too then... 15:29:08 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 15:29:24 <alluke> i dont think the number of windows is important 15:29:30 <alluke> most of the vehicles are shortened anyway 15:29:56 <alluke> bigger ones look more correct 15:31:15 <alluke> costs loading speeds and lifes need to be done too 15:32:31 <oskari892> Yes, not so fast.... 15:32:56 <oskari892> (Will be done at some point of time) 15:33:01 <alluke> sorry :P 15:36:07 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:39:24 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 15:41:09 <juzza1> its good that you tell what you would like to be improved, but ofc we have to prioritize stuff 15:41:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25227 trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp (2013-05-06 15:41:34 UTC) 15:41:41 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5541]: Give bridges owned by noone (from bankrupt companies) to the first company which replaces the bridge. Everyone could have removed/rebuild the bridge anyway. 15:41:58 <juzza1> the flipping thing is an easy one, so should be available soon 15:52:49 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:59:31 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@84.40.82.221] has quit [Quit: Tvel] 16:01:07 <frosch123> hmm, is railtype compatibility a symmetric relation? 16:01:39 <planetmaker> no 16:01:50 <planetmaker> elrail is compatible with rail. But not vice versa 16:01:59 <frosch123> compatible, not powered 16:02:29 <frosch123> both rail and elrail vehicle can drive both on rail and elrail 16:02:34 <planetmaker> uhm... then... possibly yes 16:02:44 <frosch123> so, that default case is symmetric 16:02:51 <frosch123> i just wonder whether we enforce that :) 16:03:12 <frosch123> otherwise we are completely screwed with station reservations and such 16:04:05 <frosch123> hmm, maybe the asymmetric poweredness already breaks it 16:08:42 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:11:09 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:14:11 <frosch123> no, we do not enforce any symmetry :s 16:14:13 <oskari892> frosch123: You can put electric locomotive behind diesel 16:14:31 <oskari892> And it still runs on normal unelectrified track 16:15:02 <frosch123> that much i know :) 16:15:15 <oskari892> It's good behaviour 16:15:19 <frosch123> but if you build a rail and maglev station in a row 16:15:22 <planetmaker> frosch123, I guess we could enforce symmetry though w/o breaking anything 16:15:36 <frosch123> shall pbs reservations from the rail station extend over the maglev platform? :p 16:16:12 <frosch123> planetmaker: i guess unversal rail totally breaks it 16:16:31 <planetmaker> the symmetry? 16:16:34 <frosch123> yes 16:16:41 <planetmaker> uhm... why? 16:16:53 <planetmaker> it's compatible with everything. everything compatible with it. 16:16:54 <frosch123> if rail and universal rail are compatible, and universal rail and maglev are compatible 16:17:00 <frosch123> that implies that rail and maglev are compatible 16:17:18 <planetmaker> uh... how does that follow from those two and symmetry? 16:17:28 <frosch123> well, i also implied transitivity :) 16:17:41 <planetmaker> that's an additional requirement :-P 16:17:48 <oskari892> If isn't broken, don't fix it 16:17:58 <frosch123> oskari892: it's completely broken 16:18:06 <frosch123> we have two fs issues about it 16:18:58 <frosch123> well, i guess we have to put the vehicle itself into the equation then 16:19:15 <frosch123> universal rail vehicle would then reserve both the rail and maglev platform 16:19:26 <frosch123> while a maglev vehicle would not reserve the rail platform 16:20:05 <Eddi|zuHause> transitivity is totally broken with railtypes 16:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i've stumbled across this problem before 16:20:26 <frosch123> well, i guess the compatiblity is only meant as relation from engines to rails 16:20:28 <frosch123> not between rails 16:20:51 <Eddi|zuHause> when trying to resolve compatible railtypes when dragging one railtype over another 16:20:51 <planetmaker> that's how it was interpreted so far (and also how I understood it, yes) 16:20:52 <frosch123> every codepart whcih uses rail to rail relations is broken thus 16:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> which there is no good heuristics for 16:22:21 <frosch123> ok, overbuilding one piece of track with another one is unsolvable 16:22:28 <Eddi|zuHause> if you consider e.g. a "3rd rail" and a "catenary" railtype, dragging one over the other will produce "wrong" results 16:32:17 <alluke> are roadtypes coming some day 16:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause> no. openttd is dying, you know. 16:34:30 <frosch123> hmm, or should pbs ignore railtypes completely? 16:34:37 <frosch123> and always reserve the whole platform :s 16:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably the safest 16:35:22 <planetmaker> hm... that's difficult 16:35:36 <planetmaker> deciding upon the engine is too troublesome, I guess 16:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as movement along the reservation will not blindly follow it, without checking railtype 16:35:40 <planetmaker> MUCH too troublesome 16:36:13 <frosch123> well, it would also affect station animation and such, but i guess noone cares Ã:p 16:36:31 <frosch123> let's see what block signals do 16:36:45 <frosch123> oh, wait, i know that from coop 16:36:50 <frosch123> they also ignore railtypes 16:37:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they always have been 16:37:11 <frosch123> well, then it's decided 16:37:12 <frosch123> same for pbs 16:37:15 <planetmaker> yes. So... safe assumption is to make it uniform 16:38:44 <alluke> dying? 16:40:17 <frosch123> alluke: we have more players than ever, but less devs than ever 16:40:37 <alluke> yeah 16:41:03 <peter1139> it's dead already 16:41:08 <alluke> drawing is dying skill since everythings 3d 16:41:11 <ToBeFree> both is a good sign, depending on the interpretation 16:41:38 <ToBeFree> it might become Thunderbird-like one day. ;-D 16:42:36 <frosch123> oh, how many devs does thunderbird have? :p 16:43:44 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:44:48 <planetmaker> there he goes ;-) 16:45:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1893A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:17 <frosch123> omg... 16:47:29 <frosch123> can we somehow forbid mixing railtypes inside stations? :p 16:48:33 <oskari892> I think that's impossible, if different railtypes are paraller 16:48:37 <oskari892> On same station 16:49:27 <oskari892> And people might have saves which contain stations not properly converted to electric rail 16:49:54 <oskari892> 1 of rails left out of conversion or so... 16:52:36 <Eddi|zuHause> well original did that. they only allowed pure monorail or pure rail stations 16:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> not mixed 16:53:34 <Eddi|zuHause> then someone came along and implemented joining new platforms to existing stations. and non-uniform stations. and more railtypes. and ... 16:58:11 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has joined #openttd 16:59:36 <Terkhen> hello 17:02:32 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.100.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:21:38 <planetmaker> hi Terkhen 17:22:07 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, do you still remember the meaning of the four parameters to NML's var[0xXX, a, b, c] ? 17:22:17 <planetmaker> especially a, b and c? 17:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> one is the shift, one is the mask, and the other one is the var60+ parameter 17:23:39 <planetmaker> ty 17:23:50 <Eddi|zuHause> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Deprecated_syntax 17:24:30 <planetmaker> there it is... :-) didn't exactly find it 17:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it's somewhat hidden, yes :) 17:39:49 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 17:48:31 * frosch123 kicks wt3 17:49:02 <planetmaker> uh 17:50:20 <frosch123> well, 5 minutes is kind of long for 19 changed strings :p 17:50:40 <planetmaker> :-) yeah 17:51:46 <V453000> unicorns causing a blockade 17:58:07 <frosch123> yeah, as unicorn running into a wall is similar to putting your tongue on frozen metal 17:58:51 <planetmaker> outch 18:01:34 <frosch123> hmm, an even more inappropiate analogy comes to mind... 18:02:02 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:06:44 <frosch123> TrueBrain: so, why is wt3 whining? 18:06:57 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:06:58 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:06:58 <frosch123> it should have committed gaelic 18:07:24 <Alberth> evenink 18:07:45 <TrueBrain> well, if you know better, I suggest you write a WT yourself ;) 18:07:53 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.3.31] has joined #openttd 18:08:16 <Wolf01> hello 18:08:44 <frosch123> TrueBrain: well, i hoped you know it well enough, so you can kick it where it hurts 18:08:48 <frosch123> or something like that :p 18:09:01 <TrueBrain> WT said you were too abusive towards him, so he stopped working ;) 18:09:35 <TrueBrain> it did write Gaelic, but it appears it didnt trigger any change in the output file 18:10:11 <TrueBrain> I wonder how the strings got marked as changed 18:10:12 <TrueBrain> as they are not 18:10:23 <frosch123> hmm, changed and reverted? 18:10:33 <frosch123> or only unmarked for validation? 18:10:47 <TrueBrain> neither should put them in this state 18:10:55 <TrueBrain> it happened, I believe, if cases changed in some odd way 18:11:00 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 18:11:09 <Alberth> and frosch123 and TrueBrain 18:11:11 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-162.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:11:15 <frosch123> well, gaelic currently has a compile failure 18:11:26 <frosch123> due to invalid gender usage 18:11:32 <frosch123> but i don't think wt3 would notice that 18:11:56 <TrueBrain> hmm, I cannot see the files via the VCS 18:11:58 <TrueBrain> how annoying 18:12:40 <TrueBrain> ah, I am right; cases got removed 18:13:03 <TrueBrain> and reverted, it seems 18:13:07 <TrueBrain> so let me just reload the language 18:14:39 <frosch123> STR_JUST_DATE_TINY.dat :{DATE_TINY.dat} <- dativ date :s 18:15:31 <TrueBrain> ah, I remembed, WT always barked if you fiddled with cases, and then ended up with the original statement 18:15:37 <TrueBrain> it has a hard time tracking cases 18:15:43 <TrueBrain> so it loses the ability to detect it didnt change 18:15:47 <TrueBrain> inr esult ... it always keeps pending :) 18:16:16 <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2267/ <- is it a good idea to commit that via svn then? :) 18:17:00 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:17:04 <TrueBrain> reload is done, go for it 18:17:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25228 trunk/src/lang/gaelic.txt (2013-05-06 18:17:42 UTC) 18:17:49 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Dates have no cases. 18:18:04 <frosch123> TrueBrain: thanks a lot :) 18:18:57 <TrueBrain> no worries 18:24:50 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 18:32:27 <George> Does var 61 work wile CB 1D? 18:34:27 <frosch123> likely 18:34:36 <planetmaker> code says 'yes' 18:34:58 <planetmaker> newgrf_engine.cpp:646 following 18:35:24 <George> But I can't make it work 18:35:24 *** ToBeFree [~tobefree@00019d36.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:41 <George> It always returns 0 (outside the consist) 18:36:06 <George> the same code applied while defining graphics works correctly 18:36:36 <George> looks like the waggon is not attached yet while CB 1D 18:36:42 <frosch123> hmm, which vehicle was which again with cb1d ? :) 18:36:50 <frosch123> it was the other way around or something like that 18:37:01 <frosch123> George: yes, that is correct 18:37:06 <frosch123> the wagon is not attached during cb 1d 18:37:44 <George> How can I check the previous wagon props (F2) durinng CB 1D? 18:38:05 <frosch123> you have the engine 18:38:12 <frosch123> and the length of the consist of the engine 18:38:39 <frosch123> cb 1d is called for the consist of the engine up to the wagon before the to be attache done 18:38:43 <frosch123> and the attached wagon 18:39:14 <George> So instead checking -2 I should check +10? 18:39:17 <George> I'll try 18:39:29 <frosch123> well, and the other scope 18:40:02 *** ST2 [~ST2@2.81.235.250] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:04 *** ST2 [~ST2@2.81.235.250] has joined #openttd 18:45:12 *** Ristovski_ [~rafael@78.157.7.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:16 <George> Thank you! it works! 18:46:42 *** Ristovski_ [~rafael@78.157.7.34] has joined #openttd 18:49:31 <planetmaker> great :-) 18:50:03 <planetmaker> so we'll see a release of the xussr set soon? :-) 18:52:56 <alluke> why aint the xussr in bananas anymore 18:53:07 <alluke> i thought the policy was nothing will be deleted 18:53:19 <alluke> couldnt find the stolen and test trees either 18:53:36 <LordAro> nothing is deleted, but stuff may be 'hidden' 18:53:57 <alluke> lol why 18:54:04 <frosch123> xussr is on bananas just fine 18:54:07 <alluke> whats the difference 18:54:18 <frosch123> the trees were removed because the uploaded was banned 18:54:44 <LordAro> it's still there for people that specifically request it (i.e. server newgrf list (?)), but hidden in the main list 18:55:00 <frosch123> LordAro: xussr isn't even hidden 18:55:11 <LordAro> i didn't bother looking ;) 18:55:41 <alluke> then i must be blind or something 18:55:42 <planetmaker> maybe it has a min version requirement 18:55:43 <alluke> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/N%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6kuva%202013-05-06%20kohteessa%2021.54.32.png 18:56:38 <LordAro> alluke: which version are you running? 18:56:42 <frosch123> 1.2.3 is quite old 18:57:06 <alluke> the latest stable 18:57:16 <frosch123> that's 1.3.0 18:57:19 <LordAro> "latest" ? 18:57:22 <alluke> oops 18:57:29 <alluke> it used to be latest 18:57:37 <LordAro> ;) 18:57:46 <frosch123> 1.2.3 is over 6 months old 18:57:53 <alluke> only 18:57:57 <planetmaker> already 18:57:58 <frosch123> ancient, my mother used that 18:58:17 <alluke> why are there so many updates when i cant find any difference 18:58:29 <frosch123> see, you found one :p 18:58:33 <alluke> except the background game 18:58:44 <planetmaker> did you bother to look at the changelog? 18:58:44 <frosch123> xussr is not available for 1.2.3 apparently 18:58:57 <LordAro> http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD_1.3.0 19:00:16 <alluke> ok there are some changes 19:00:50 <Rubidium> oh, so you rather have that we change the "theme" every release, so you think something changes when it's just eye cancer you want to turn off 19:01:23 <alluke> no, dont get it wrong 19:01:48 <alluke> but i havent seen any difference in gameplay 19:01:59 <alluke> all the changes work in the background 19:02:47 <planetmaker> except, for instance, the changes to newgrf support which you experienced ;-) 19:02:51 <Rubidium> many of them are minor improvements 19:03:05 <V453000> Randomised death counts! XD 19:03:06 <alluke> yeah that too 19:04:33 <alluke> ive always wondered one thing 19:04:38 <Rubidium> 42 19:04:55 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1893A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:05:02 <alluke> why do mac apps have so much bigger filesize than their windows variants 19:05:07 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@1SGAAAQEB.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:13 <planetmaker> it's two in one 19:05:21 <frosch123> three? 19:05:23 <Rubidium> s/two/three/ 19:05:27 <MNIM> Because lolmacs 19:05:29 <planetmaker> three even. indeed 19:05:34 <planetmaker> ppc, 32bit and 64bit 19:05:42 <Rubidium> planetmaker: wrong 19:05:47 <planetmaker> no need to decide and know which bit version you need 19:05:54 <planetmaker> nor which OS you have 19:06:06 <planetmaker> no ppc? 19:06:26 <alluke> you could ditch ppc support 19:06:31 <frosch123> alluke: in summary, there are versions for win9x, win 32bit, win 64bit. but the osx build has them in one 19:06:38 <alluke> yeah 19:06:38 <peter1139> ppc has 32 & 64 bit variants too 19:06:49 <alluke> sucks 19:06:52 <planetmaker> yes... but not in our universal binary, no? 19:07:14 <Rubidium> planetmaker: well... just checks, only 2 are left (ppc + i386) 19:07:17 <__ln___> alluke: why would anyone want to ditch ppc support? 19:07:25 <Rubidium> we used to have ppc, ppc 'G5' and i386 19:07:34 <planetmaker> good. That's what I recalled... so two binaries in one 19:07:48 <planetmaker> rather: I recalled two only 19:07:56 <planetmaker> I guess I ditched ppc :-P 19:08:07 <Rubidium> and the ppc 'G5' is just like the ppc, but with some special compilation flag for faster math stuff 19:08:09 <planetmaker> *guessed 19:08:28 <Rubidium> then you could also have x86_64 and ppc_64 19:08:52 <planetmaker> yes. But... no need really 19:09:36 <Rubidium> ah, the g5 one is called ppc970 19:09:50 <Rubidium> planetmaker: only ppc is enough, the rest can run via Rosetta 19:09:52 <frosch123> [21:07] <planetmaker> I guess I ditched ppc :-P <- i thought we ditched all of them :p 19:10:04 <planetmaker> Rubidium, that's wrong. Rosetta only works till OSX 10.6 19:10:17 <frosch123> that's two releases more than ottd :p 19:10:29 <planetmaker> ottd supports till 10.5 19:10:54 <planetmaker> there's some code for 10.6... but no VM for that in the CF 19:11:27 <Rubidium> planetmaker: so what, 10.6+ isn't supported anyway ;) 19:11:47 <planetmaker> yes... maybe I should get myself a new laptop :-P 19:11:58 <__ln___> ditching already-existing ppc support for the sake of ditching ppc support would be silly. 19:12:07 <planetmaker> it would 19:12:11 <alluke> whats the sprite_cache_size 64 19:12:12 <alluke> kb? 19:12:15 <alluke> mb? 19:12:19 <planetmaker> terrabyte 19:12:22 <frosch123> mega pixels 19:12:25 <alluke> harhar 19:12:40 <peter1139> unused 19:12:52 <frosch123> ah, true 19:13:11 <frosch123> it's called sprite_cache_size_px nowadays 19:13:54 <alluke> i have three caches in my .cfg :P 19:14:14 <frosch123> two of them are deprecated names of the same thing, but different units 19:14:31 <peter1139> damn it, i always forget my ilo login :( 19:14:33 <alluke> damn those pbi quarries 19:14:44 <alluke> i always think i lost my trucks when i hear a bang 19:14:58 <peter1139> and it has a login delay of about 30 seconds 19:15:07 <peter1139> retrying different combinations takes an age 19:17:32 <__ln___> afaik ppc macs are the only relatively easily available big endian platform to test openttd on. 19:17:45 <planetmaker> that's right 19:17:57 <planetmaker> whereas "easy" starts to become "difficult", too 19:18:29 <planetmaker> PPC is deprecated on OSX for 3 releases of the OS and 6 or 7 years out of production 19:18:40 <planetmaker> s/deprectated/removed/ 19:19:39 <Rubidium> planetmaker: why remove support for something that works better than the stuff that came after it? 19:20:04 <planetmaker> what did I advocate to remove? 19:20:55 <Rubidium> you kinda implied it by telling it's "removed" from OSX 19:21:14 <planetmaker> OSX the operating system. Not OpenTTD 19:21:37 <planetmaker> 10.6 did not shop anymore with anything which runs on PPC. Nor 10.7 or 10.8 19:22:01 <alluke> shame that you cant get rosetta onto lion 19:22:04 <planetmaker> 10.6 still did ship with a ppc emulator - which needed separate install and was off by default 19:22:16 <alluke> i have some ppc apps i need 19:22:26 <alluke> cant update from 10.6 19:22:32 <alluke> unless i get second mac 19:26:47 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:35:09 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:38:07 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 19:38:15 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:49 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:40:42 *** peter1139 [~petern@lachesis.fuzzle.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:44:13 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 19:44:27 *** peter1138 [~petern@00013681.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:44:30 *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ 19:55:02 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-108-191.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 19:57:02 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/test.png 19:57:39 <frosch123> it lacks some grid lines :p 19:57:59 <planetmaker> :-D yeah... ogfx-landscape is my test grf 19:58:03 <frosch123> the north corner looks nice 19:58:09 <frosch123> the east one is a bit weird 19:58:10 <planetmaker> next feature there: rivers w/o gridlines 19:58:14 <planetmaker> seems I had it. But uncommitted 19:58:23 <planetmaker> the lonley one? 19:58:46 <LordAro> is this for ogfx landscape or (eventually) trunk? 19:58:47 <planetmaker> that single lake is by intention. It's a separate sprite 19:58:48 *** ToBeFree [~tobefree@00019d36.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:58:49 <Terkhen> good night 19:58:54 <planetmaker> good night, Terkhen 19:58:54 <frosch123> i mean the east corner 19:59:12 <planetmaker> frosch123, there's only two new sprites currently which use the feature: 19:59:24 <planetmaker> the SW river end on the top. And the single lake 19:59:25 <frosch123> ah, ok :) 19:59:30 <planetmaker> the rest is as-is sprites 20:00:15 <planetmaker> LordAro, variable 0x82 for canals / rivers 20:00:57 <LordAro> ah, scary grf stuff :) 20:00:58 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/water_var82.diff 20:01:12 <planetmaker> not so scary really 20:01:29 <planetmaker> frosch123, and now we need that for rail :-P 20:01:35 <planetmaker> And eddi will be happy :-P 20:02:21 <planetmaker> but that ultimately would allow curved tracks when applied to rail 20:02:30 <frosch123> planetmaker: i wondered... are you using bits 4 to 7? 20:02:46 <frosch123> i wondered whether only bits 0 to 3 make sense :) 20:02:55 <planetmaker> the var returns all. In the grf I only test currently for values 0x00, 0x01 and other 20:03:06 <planetmaker> I wondered the same. But all make sense 20:03:18 <planetmaker> For rivers which flow upwards. or horizontal 20:03:21 <planetmaker> separate sprites for the 20:03:23 <planetmaker> them 20:03:25 <frosch123> well, they won't hurt :p 20:03:41 <frosch123> maybe you need them if you do even more smooth river corners 20:03:45 <frosch123> like you intent for rails :p 20:03:46 <planetmaker> yes 20:03:55 <planetmaker> no :-P 20:04:28 <planetmaker> but knowledge about the tiles on the edges allows for more smoothness, I think 20:04:44 <planetmaker> And I see a BIG explosion in sprites in river grfs... :S 20:04:52 <frosch123> they allow you to look "around" the corner 20:04:56 <planetmaker> yeah 20:10:19 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:11:27 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has joined #openttd 20:11:53 *** TWerkhoven [~TWerkhove@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:09 *** TWerkhoven [~TWerkhove@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:19:28 <planetmaker> frosch123, like the updated screenshot http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/test.png 20:20:46 <planetmaker> what will definitely look strange though is how boats drive on that river 20:20:55 <planetmaker> they'll zig-zag while the river is straight :-P 20:21:04 <MNIM> uhhh. 20:21:14 <MNIM> Last time I checked they don't zigzag 20:21:24 <planetmaker> hm... I need to check 20:21:40 <frosch123> s/straight/curvy/ 20:22:18 <frosch123> planetmaker: ships move like trains 20:22:19 <frosch123> not like rv 20:22:50 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:23:38 <planetmaker> hm... SE misses the "play now" button 20:27:17 <planetmaker> looks good even :-) 20:27:34 <planetmaker> so... no objection against patch? 20:28:21 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 20:29:01 <frosch123> hmm, let me check whether the var is the same as in ttdp :p 20:29:34 <planetmaker> there it's for interal use only :-P 20:29:52 <planetmaker> I wonder actually... do we have other direction variables? 20:30:27 <frosch123> what? 20:31:11 <planetmaker> other newgrf variables where the adjacent tiles are bit-numbered like here (or unlike here) 20:31:39 <frosch123> planetmaker: i think the var is inverted 20:31:45 <frosch123> bits should be set if land 20:31:47 <frosch123> not if water 20:32:09 <planetmaker> that's an easy change :-) 20:34:34 <frosch123> planetmaker: GetRailContinuationInfo 20:34:50 <frosch123> station var 46 20:34:58 <frosch123> *45 20:36:26 <planetmaker> seems same order 20:36:40 <planetmaker> hm... that's two 20:36:55 <frosch123> it's completely different 20:37:00 <frosch123> but that's fine, it's stations :p 20:37:01 <planetmaker> yeah 20:37:04 <planetmaker> :-P 20:37:39 <frosch123> the first four match DiagDirection 20:37:41 <frosch123> so, that is fine 20:38:44 <planetmaker> patch updated with eight ! 20:38:58 <frosch123> :) 20:39:07 <frosch123> only underaged people use so many ! :p 20:39:07 <planetmaker> alternatively I could invert the result... but I guess that's the same really 20:39:14 <planetmaker> :D 20:39:21 <frosch123> no, it's fine 20:39:33 <frosch123> the upper bits 8..31 should be cleared 20:40:12 <planetmaker> the variable is assigned as that value. So... does it need explicit clearing? It's uint32 anyway 20:40:43 <frosch123> you would have if you would invert the complete result 20:40:51 <planetmaker> ah, yes 20:41:08 <planetmaker> connectivity = !connectivity & 0x000000FF 20:41:21 <planetmaker> sure I would have forgotten that :-) 20:41:27 <frosch123> ~ instead of ! :) 20:41:38 <planetmaker> ups. yeah 20:41:54 <frosch123> but yeah, keep it as it is 20:41:57 <frosch123> easier to read 20:43:09 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25229 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-05-06 20:48:18 UTC) 20:48:25 <DorpsGek> -Feature: [NewGRF] Variable 0x82 for canals and rivers (dike map) 21:06:55 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-165-37-184.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:07:41 *** Ristovski_ [~rafael@78.157.7.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:14:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:24:08 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has joined #openttd 21:26:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DD68.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:48 <Wolf01> 'night 21:31:05 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:40:51 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:00:07 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 22:09:51 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:10:00 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:10:58 <frosch123> night 22:11:01 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd924.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:28 *** Devroush367 [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:24:13 *** sla_ro|master [~slamaster@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: connection reset by myself] 22:26:53 <planetmaker> gute Nacht 22:53:21 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:08:27 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@90.193.88.212] has joined #openttd 23:27:18 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:32:10 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.100.185] has joined #openttd 23:38:40 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]