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Log for #openttd on 31st May 2013:
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01:48:43  <Eddi|zuHause> "the first update to windows 8 will bring back the traditional start button"
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11:16:23  <samu> hi all good afternon
11:17:11  <samu> what is multi-threaded in ottd, is there a list for it, a topic?
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11:18:15  <samu> saving a same?
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11:22:10  <samu> im trying to test something, to push cpu usage as high as possible with openttd
11:22:37  <samu> i'm able to  get 24,99% peak
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11:23:58  <samu> autosave + whole map screenshot
11:25:50  <Eddi|zuHause> that is how many cores?
11:26:29  <Eddi|zuHause> you can just press fast forward, you know
11:26:35  <samu> 8
11:26:57  <Eddi|zuHause> so you maxed out 2 cores. great
11:27:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there is much more you can do
11:27:20  <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist may help :p
11:27:44  <samu> fastforward shows some kernel time
11:27:49  <samu> a red line
11:27:55  <samu> what is kernel time?
11:28:12  <Eddi|zuHause> time spent inside the windows kernel
11:28:34  <samu> 15.50%
11:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause> probably display stuff
11:28:48  <samu> with some pausing for autosave, red line disapears
11:28:58  <samu> and cpu goes down to 12.50
11:29:30  <samu> hmm not 12.50, apparenlty 14.60% sorry
11:30:18  <Eddi|zuHause> fast forward should probably implement some kind of framedrop
11:30:34  <Eddi|zuHause> so not every frame is drawn, speeding up some stuff
11:30:45  <samu> gpu usage is spiky too
11:31:07  <Eddi|zuHause> that probably depends on the graphics driver
11:31:13  <Eddi|zuHause> and card capabilities
11:31:29  <samu> radeon hd 6850
11:31:48  <Eddi|zuHause> lots of 2D acceleration like 8bpp palette animation is taken out of cards, because not much stuff uses it anymore
11:32:41  <samu> it's maybe windows aero?
11:33:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what that is
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11:41:40  <samu> it's the transparency effects on windows borders, the blurr when 2 windows are on top of each other, the preview-animated screen when hovering minimized applications
11:42:06  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not
11:42:10  <Eddi|zuHause> kernel is driver stuff
11:42:16  <samu> when i hover on openttd minimized, i see it animating
11:42:51  <samu> a real-time preview
11:42:59  <samu> :o
11:45:03  <samu> i think this explains
11:45:04  <samu> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/What-is-Windows-Aero
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12:02:21  <samu> a nice feature is this
12:02:37  <samu> pess windows key + tab
12:03:03  <samu> hold down windows key, then tab to circulate
12:04:12  <samu> very funny to see, and every window is live-previewing
12:04:17  <samu> of what 's happening
12:10:01  <Eddi|zuHause> so basically it's windows' version of compositing
12:16:08  <samu> yes, I don't know what compositing, but i guess so
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12:36:25  <Eddi|zuHause> well, basically, every application writes its output to its own virtual screen, so the compositing manager can combine these outputs any way they want (mini-previews, transparency effects, wobbly windows, ...)
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13:23:43  <samu> hi
13:24:13  <samu> openttd crashed
13:24:59  <samu> but not the kind of crash that creates crash files
13:25:03  <samu> what do I do?
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13:28:49  <samu> OpenTTD has stopped working
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13:32:39  <samu> oops, sorry colosed windows by mistake
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13:34:52  <samu> wait, i post a screenshot
13:36:14  <samu> it appears to have crashed during autosave
13:38:43  <zooks> what message?
13:39:09  <planetmaker> make it reproducable, samu
13:39:14  <planetmaker> "show us"
13:39:23  <samu> OpenTTD
13:39:29  <samu> OppenTTD has stopped working
13:39:30  <planetmaker> the "show us" should then happen in a bug report
13:39:42  <planetmaker> "has stopped working" doesn't qualify as show us
13:39:49  <samu> A problem made this program to stop working correctly
13:39:52  <planetmaker> it needs a step-by-step guide on crashing it
13:40:05  <samu> Windows will close the program and warn u if there's a possible solution available
13:40:12  <samu> [Close Program]
13:41:10  <samu> I see a still image,  it was autosaving
13:41:28  <samu> i see a newspaper, some AI celebrating stuff
13:41:33  <samu> a train
13:41:45  <samu> which savegame do I provide u?
13:41:50  <samu> autosave
13:42:03  <zooks> crash.sav crash.log and crash.png would be a good start
13:42:14  <samu> those weren't created
13:42:26  <samu> I have autosave0 to autosave15
13:42:28  <samu> want them all?
13:42:36  <zooks> go up 2 directories
13:42:49  <zooks> are they there?
13:43:09  <samu> yes, but they're from 29th, it was the crash I reported 2 days ago
13:43:18  <samu> it wasn't this crash
13:43:45  <zooks> which version are you using?
13:44:06  <samu> OpenTTD 1.3.1-RC1 for windows 64-bit
13:44:36  <zooks> so if you open autosave, it crashes?
13:44:49  <samu> I haven't tried yet
13:44:52  <samu> let me try
13:44:54  <zooks> try :)
13:46:18  <samu> the last autosave is exactly the same date as the crashed still image
13:46:20  <samu> didn't crash
13:46:27  <samu> should load the previous one?
13:46:56  <samu> ok, 1 month away
13:46:59  <samu> waiting
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13:47:31  <samu> nop, didn't crash either
13:47:35  <samu> so... hmmm
13:47:45  <samu> I dunno what to do
13:47:51  <zooks> if you can not reproduce then it is hard to fix
13:47:57  <zooks> by the devs
13:48:55  <samu> i set up a game on arctic 2048x2048 with 15 AIs and fastforwarded
13:49:02  <samu> then went away
13:49:11  <samu> when I came back windows came up with the error
13:49:37  <samu> when I noticed
13:50:41  <zooks> no crash.log?
13:51:08  <samu> doesn't windows create a dump file?
13:51:34  <zooks> I don't know anything about windows. I never use it
13:51:57  <samu> crash.log is from 29th
13:52:02  <samu> so not today
13:54:21  <zooks> I'm out of options..
13:56:59  <samu> i can't open skydrive... grrr my internet is too slow
14:03:02  <samu> windows events logged something
14:03:19  <samu> Nome da aplicação com falha: openttd.exe, versão: 1.3.1.25249, carimbo de data/hora: 0x51968462
14:03:33  <samu> Nome do módulo com falha: openttd.exe, versão: 1.3.1.25249, carimbo de data/hora: 0x51968462
14:04:13  <samu> Código de excepção: 0xc0000005
14:04:39  <samu> pastebin.com
14:06:51  <samu> http://pastebin.com/fS8Ndjfc
14:07:27  <samu> is that of any use?
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14:13:55  <samu> there's another log, sec...
14:14:27  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
14:14:40  <samu> here, this one is bigger : http://pastebin.com/EDcV7xcy
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14:43:43  <samu> do you know what is Event ID: 1000? then Event ID: 1001?
14:44:12  <samu> i'm trying to search on internet
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14:48:15  <samu> meh nevermind, think it's not related
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15:02:25  <samu> anyone here?
15:03:13  <V453000> you seem to be a man of endless trouble :D
15:03:34  <Sacro> someone call for endless trouble?
15:03:36  <samu> yes, I was trying too look for a list of error codes
15:03:49  <samu> what is 0x63c
15:07:20  <samu> I'm so clueless
15:09:01  <samu> EventType=APPCRASH
15:09:07  <samu> Value=c0000005
15:09:17  <Eddi|zuHause> did we ever have a bug report like this? https://jira.mongodb.org/browse/PYTHON-532 :p
15:09:21  <samu> Value=00000000001c4548
15:09:49  <samu> do you know what the error means?
15:10:01  <samu> I'm still unable to open skydrive to upload... :8
15:11:23  <planetmaker> samu: bug reports belong into the bug tracker. not line by line here
15:11:35  <samu> ok
15:11:37  <V453000> holy hell Eddi :D
15:12:22  <samu> but it limits to 8 MiB
15:12:32  <samu> I have 111 MB to upload
15:13:34  <planetmaker> ehm. if you have 111MB to upload... something's wrong
15:13:57  <samu> they're the autosaves
15:14:09  <planetmaker> an autosave of 111MB?!?!
15:14:19  <samu> no, 16 autosaves total 111
15:14:33  <V453000> lovely 2x2k I assume
15:14:43  <planetmaker> why does it need all 16?
15:15:09  <samu> I don't know which one to send
15:15:16  <Eddi|zuHause> the latest?
15:15:18  <samu> the last one doesn't crash
15:15:23  <planetmaker> try to load. and see which crashes?
15:15:25  <samu> the previous than that doesn't crash either
15:15:29  <samu> ok
15:15:45  <samu> but I hate to stop autosave
15:15:57  <Eddi|zuHause> make a copy of the directory
15:16:00  <samu> or they save on top of each other, how do i do this
15:16:02  <V453000> well you seem to hate many things :)
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15:16:08  <samu> have*
15:16:25  <samu> ok
15:16:26  <samu> let me try
15:17:42  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, reads like an awesome bug report. No I don't recall such :-)
15:18:22  <samu> autosave failed
15:18:31  <samu> it doesn't create the autosave folder?
15:18:35  <V453000> Very Disappointed added a comment - May 31 2013 01:27:40 PM UTC Is that all? So blunt answers..
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15:20:25  <samu> fixed "autosave failed" error - it needs the autosave folder there
15:22:25  <planetmaker> that's why it was suggested to make a *copy*. And not to rename it
15:24:08  <samu> how long should I wait for each savegame to get an error?
15:24:31  <planetmaker> it's you who found the bug. How shall I know?
15:24:40  <samu> I don't know either
15:25:26  <samu> hmm these saves are 1 year and 11 months game time
15:25:40  <samu> it crashed within 2 years game time, ok let's wait
15:27:05  <zooks> keep saving it until it crashes
15:27:15  <zooks> then upload the save from right before..
15:28:54  <samu> oh wow... it crashed wow
15:29:01  <samu> wasnt expecting to crash again
15:29:25  <samu> so... about the same time period
15:29:38  <samu> 1 year and...
15:29:45  <samu> 11 months
15:29:52  <samu> that's the same time period infact
15:31:22  <samu> i dont know which savegame to provide, apparently it saves, then crashes right after
15:31:36  <samu> if i load the savegame, it doesn't crash asa
15:31:38  <samu> asap
15:31:50  <planetmaker> samu, you now loaded an autosave. left it running for time X.
15:32:10  <planetmaker> thus provide that autosave you loaded, the instruction on how long to watch before crash. And the crash data windows gives you
15:32:15  <planetmaker> in our issue tracker
15:32:16  <planetmaker> NOT here
15:32:36  <samu> oki
15:34:19  <samu> whiat is the reported version? there isn't 1.3.1RC1 to pick
15:35:33  <planetmaker> pick whatever and mention it in the report
15:36:20  *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:37:09  <planetmaker> or reload the form and pick 1.3.1-RC1
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15:44:51  <samu> it is uploading... (hopefully)
15:45:00  <samu> unless my internet doesn't let me
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15:56:52  <samu> should take 20 more minutes if nothing fails
15:57:12  <samu> brb
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16:14:19  <samu> it failed?
16:14:26  <samu> bah my life sucks
16:15:40  <samu> can't even do something useful
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16:37:44  <samu> planemaker
16:38:04  <samu> it uploaded on 2nd try, is the savegame file intact?
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16:40:06  <samu> trying to attach screenshot image now
16:42:45  <samu> done
16:42:56  <samu> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5568
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17:41:05  <SineTheCreator> hi all. i've just installed openttd 1.3.0 on windows. it's been a while since i've played. anyways, i can't seem to get tooltips working; when i right-click on buttons nothing happens.
17:41:35  <samu> hover a tip and wait 2 seconds
17:42:16  <SineTheCreator> ahh. is there any way to remove the delay? i remember there being a setting for that in the old days
17:42:29  <planetmaker> in the adv. settings you find a... setting
17:42:39  <planetmaker> minimum is 1 second afaik
17:42:48  <planetmaker> or right click. but that doesn't work in a few cases
17:43:44  <samu> right click hides the tip in my case
17:44:18  <SineTheCreator> planetmaker: it's in the settings now
17:44:22  <SineTheCreator> i found it, thanks guys :D
17:44:37  <SineTheCreator> there is the option to do right-click for tooltips or a delayed hover of X seconds
17:44:45  <SineTheCreator> i wish you could do hover instantly though
17:44:58  <SineTheCreator> those tooltips are pretty useful when you haven't played for a long time :D
17:45:50  <planetmaker> especially the ctrl+click being explained which has a different effect in many places
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17:49:21  <samu> "pan window when the mouse is at the edge" - this setting never worked right for me
17:49:45  <samu> it scrolls left or right
17:50:26  <samu> but up or down, only if the mouse isn't hovering the top and bottom bars
17:51:03  <glx> of course they are above the map
17:51:20  <SineTheCreator> is there any way to load newgrf's in a game that has already started?
17:52:20  <planetmaker> no
17:52:35  <Pinkbeast> Yes, but you probably don't want to do it.
17:52:58  <SineTheCreator> okay. i'll just start over, thanks
17:53:24  <SineTheCreator> i love this game :D
17:53:35  <planetmaker> :-)
17:54:47  <samu> could i move landscape toolbar when I move the construction toolbar if they're linked?
17:55:17  <planetmaker> feel free to share your adventures in our scenarios and savegames subforum, SineTheCreator ;-) http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=59
17:56:26  <samu> move in tandem, like they're only 1
18:09:12  <SineTheCreator> planetmaker: will do :D thankls
18:09:15  <SineTheCreator> thanks*
18:09:30  <SineTheCreator> one more question - i can't seem to access message settings to disable pop-up messages?
18:10:02  <samu> news messages?
18:10:12  <SineTheCreator> yeah
18:10:16  <samu> those settings moved to advanced settings
18:10:21  <SineTheCreator> ahh, ok. thanks
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18:11:37  <SineTheCreator> any way to disable mousescroll zoom?
18:11:43  <SineTheCreator> i'm using an hp mini with a finicky touchpad
18:11:56  <planetmaker> SineTheCreator, the adv. settings allow search ;-) use it
18:12:15  <SineTheCreator> nevermind, found it :D
18:12:35  <SineTheCreator> perfect, thanks!
18:17:30  <samu> eww isn't there a possiblity to change the refit + repay loan behaviour?
18:19:32  <Alberth> change the source code will definitely work
18:20:08  <samu> ok
18:22:29  <samu> if I had' not repayed loan, they would refit and not stop
18:25:04  <SineTheCreator> anyone want to play online?
18:25:13  <SineTheCreator> i'd probably be a crappy opponent, but ... :D
18:25:38  <samu> i want
18:25:42  <samu> but map size must be small
18:25:47  <samu> well, tiny
18:25:52  <samu> because of my connection
18:26:17  <SineTheCreator> okay. how small? 256, 512?
18:26:23  <SineTheCreator> or smaller?
18:26:33  <samu> 64x64 seems to work, not sure about 64x128
18:26:34  <planetmaker> SineTheCreator, there's hundrets of servers online :-)
18:26:45  <SineTheCreator> planetmaker: i guess so, yeah.
18:26:48  <samu> oh, I'm on 1.3.1- RC1
18:27:02  <samu> 128x128 doesn't work
18:27:08  <SineTheCreator> ahh. okay.
18:27:50  <planetmaker> 128^2 for MP is a *real* challange. Starts to become one in single player even :-)
18:27:55  <planetmaker> depending on settings
18:28:12  <SineTheCreator> it's ... tiny, to say the least :D
18:28:24  <Pinkbeast> I find the main difficulty in single player is "oh, it's 1950 and I've done everything, what now?"
18:28:42  <samu> it starts downloading, then stops at about 16 KB dl'ed
18:28:46  <planetmaker> you definitely play maps < 256^2 differently than maps > 256^2
18:28:49  <samu> bad ISP
18:28:53  <samu> :p
18:32:48  <samu> even refreshing server list feels sluggish
18:34:14  <samu> "don't move away down the list, u game!" - playing catch with a server :o
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18:37:38  <planetmaker> hm. strange. NewGRF settings window does not respond to delete key. It rather catches and cancels it
18:41:39  <frosch123> works for me
18:42:23  <planetmaker> stranger then even
18:42:37  <frosch123> ah, i guess you have the cursor in the editbox :p
18:42:46  <frosch123> then the editbox get sthe delete ofc
18:43:16  <planetmaker> no
18:44:02  <planetmaker> hm... might be my keyboard settings... as the ^ doesn't open console either
18:44:20  <frosch123> that would also be the case for cursor in editbox :p
18:44:22  <planetmaker> I should compare here with my workplace computer
18:44:32  <frosch123> anyway, do you have the editable newgrf window?
18:44:36  <frosch123> or the not editable?
18:44:42  <samu> i'm checking that
18:44:47  <samu> happening the same
18:44:54  <frosch123> as the not-editable window with no editbox seems to set the focus into the editbox envertheless :p
18:44:56  <planetmaker> not editable version of NewGRF settings. In MP game, yes
18:45:18  <frosch123> click in the list to unfocus the non-existing editbox, and it will respond :)
18:45:20  <planetmaker> ho
18:46:11  <planetmaker> yes. it does
18:47:05  <samu> tag name filter?
18:47:54  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25307 trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp (2013-05-31 18:47:49 UTC)
18:47:55  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Do not focus the editbox in the NewGRF window, if there is no editbox visible.
18:48:29  <samu> what if i check online content?
18:48:40  <samu> cursor goes right to tag name filter
18:48:50  <samu> keyboard cursor that is
18:49:10  <planetmaker> :-)
18:49:21  <planetmaker> a quick and agile frosch. Despite temperatures
18:50:02  <frosch123> :)
18:50:12  <planetmaker> thank you
19:03:30  <samu> hey frosch, there is no crash
19:03:48  <samu> about the bug report - http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5568
19:05:59  <SineTheCreator> how do i rotate airports?
19:07:30  <samu> it is Windows doing the crash report instead
19:10:03  <samu> I can locate the windows error report somewhere in windows event manager, I can attach that into the report
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19:10:47  <planetmaker> SineTheCreator, you don't. Unless you play with the NewGRF OpenGFX+Airports
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19:16:29  <Alberth> hi hi
19:16:42  <Wolf01> hello :D
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19:26:03  <samu> I found some crash log, that's generated by windows though, hope it's useful. I can't navigate to the memory dump file on my system, can you help?
19:26:50  <samu> it's a .mdmp extension, but windows doesn't find it
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19:55:10  * Rubidium wonders how long it takes till NS cancels the Fyra/Albatros order now that the NMBS has cancelled it
19:55:33  <Alberth> they still didn't?  :o
19:55:45  <Rubidium> nope... they are awaiting some report
19:55:58  <Alberth> lol
19:56:13  <Rubidium> http://1.standaardcdn.be/Assets/Images_Upload/2013/05/31/kabels_2.jpg <- the proper way to mount such cables ;)
19:56:44  <Rubidium> http://1.standaardcdn.be/Assets/Images_Upload/2013/05/31/cf3b8d80-ca06-11e2-b9cc-1a8fcc649836_web_scale_0.2238806_0.2238806__.JPG <- new panto ;)
19:57:07  <Alberth> obviously correctly mounted, gives troubles at all times :)
19:58:33  <Rubidium> http://media.rtl.nl/media/financien/rtlz/2013/NMBS-fyra.pdf <- press presentation (in Dutch)
19:58:46  <planetmaker> o_O
19:58:48  <Rubidium> I can't come to any other conclusion than that NS will have to cancel the order as well
19:59:53  <Rubidium> seriously... we have 9 Fyras of which 2 do not have that many problems that they can occasionally run some tests with them
20:00:26  <Rubidium> oh, and sorry Wolf01... but I reckon AnsaldoBreda will file for bankruptcy next month
20:00:53  <Wolf01> another one :(
20:05:13  <planetmaker> ui. Looking bad for them, I guess
20:06:09  *** samu [~oftc-webi@39.73.166.178.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:07:07  <planetmaker> wtf, that report is a list of ridiculousness
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20:08:54  <Rubidium> interesting the Belgians only cancelled it today, and the Dutch might only do it next month, right?
20:08:54  <samu> AHA GOT IT!!! I ninja'ed the crash dump before windows deleted it.
20:09:02  <samu> do you want this?
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20:15:01  <samu> hmmm?
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20:27:19  <samu> frosch123: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5568
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20:28:33  <samu> if those files are useless, then meh.. I can't think of anything else, sorry
20:28:48  <glx> samu: we need the files generated by openttd
20:29:47  <glx> openttd should show its own crash window
20:31:04  <samu> but it didn't show it
20:31:10  <samu> I know how it looks like
20:32:00  <samu> it happened on my report from 29th
20:32:05  <samu> but not this one
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20:49:08  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25308 /branches/1.3 (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-05-31 20:49:00 UTC)
20:49:09  <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Backport from trunk:
20:49:10  <DorpsGek> - Fix: When overbuilding a reserved track with a non-track station tile, that tile would remain reserved and eventually trigger a crash upon removal [FS#5540] (r25251)
20:49:11  <DorpsGek> - Doc: Update some small parts of the readme (r25278)
20:51:08  <samu> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5568/getfile/9056/OpenTTD%20has%20stopped%20working%20-%20No%20crash%20log.png
20:51:21  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25309 /branches/1.3 (6 files in 4 dirs) (2013-05-31 20:51:15 UTC)
20:51:22  <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Update: some documentation
20:52:06  <samu> that's how it looks like when it crashed
20:53:59  <samu> crashes*
20:55:55  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25310 /tags/1.3.1 (10 files in 4 dirs) (2013-05-31 20:55:48 UTC)
20:55:56  <DorpsGek> -Release: 1.3.1
20:57:25  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25311 /trunk (3 files) (2013-05-31 20:57:19 UTC)
20:57:26  <DorpsGek> -Merge: documentation updates from 1.3
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21:04:28  <Rubidium> blathijs, heffer_, Ammler: new release poke (tarballs there within the hour, I hope)
21:05:16  <samu> is it 1.3.1
21:05:21  *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.137.75.224] has quit []
21:05:22  <samu> the plain version?
21:08:16  <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.3.1
21:08:16  *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.3.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
21:09:06  <samu> cool:) I will download in 2 hours
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21:30:34  <frosch123> night
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22:50:05  <SineTheCreator> :/
22:50:33  <SineTheCreator> i went through all the trouble of creating a rail steel supply chain and then two of the three iron mines dry up just as soon as its operational
22:50:35  <SineTheCreator> epic fail
23:11:07  <Wolf01> 'night
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