Config
Log for #openttd on 6th June 2013:
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00:21:47  <MysticalBurrito> Could someone help me?
00:25:21  <samu> ewww lol,  property maintenance costs with infrastructure costs
00:25:46  <samu> inflation + high costs + 4% interest, this is insane
00:25:58  <MysticalBurrito> I need help with the resolution for OpenTTD on my phone.
00:26:20  <glx> we don't support mobile version
00:26:48  <MysticalBurrito> I've looked everywhere for help with this. :/
00:27:41  <samu> 2 commuters: -£16,460,340 /yr
00:28:42  <MysticalBurrito> could I be linked to a site that might be able to help me?
00:29:47  <samu> who decided on these costs for airports?
00:32:00  <samu> omg... his aircraft just crashed
00:32:22  <MysticalBurrito> can someone link me to a site that could help me with PPCTTD?
00:33:02  <samu> I can't, sorry
00:33:16  <samu> i don't know what that is
00:35:07  <MysticalBurrito> PPCTTD Is the Pocket PC version of the original TTD
00:36:34  <samu> eSoft interactive
00:36:37  <samu> i think
00:37:18  <MysticalBurrito> Yeah
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00:39:56  <samu> http://www.esoftinteractive.com/
00:40:03  <samu> seems outdated.... 2009
00:41:06  <samu> http://www.esoftinteractive.com/openttd.html
00:43:55  <samu>  support@esoftinteractive.com
00:44:09  <samu> i seriously doubt they even exist
00:44:12  <samu> but meh... try
00:53:15  <MysticalBurrito> the OpenTTD page on esoft just lead me back to the forums
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04:31:24  <George> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5588
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12:02:26  <planetmaker> Zuu doesn't like my story books :-(
12:27:14  <Zuu> planetmaker: The user don't write the book
12:28:14  <Zuu> I do like the icon where you see the height of the book, but don't know if it fits the TTD style.
12:41:52  <planetmaker> That's true, it seems to not exactly fit the others
12:43:26  <planetmaker> But the plain sheets are very similar imho to the news icon
12:47:31  <planetmaker> with the pen I thought more instead of writing yourself it's the story as its being written
12:51:07  <Zuu> I see your point
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13:59:04  <Samu> hi
13:59:12  <ntoskrnl> hi
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14:30:58  <Samu> oh nice, a new version of OtviAI v418
14:31:27  <Samu> and BorkAI
14:31:46  <Samu> *must try*
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15:52:50  <Belugas> hello
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16:51:54  <Samu> hi
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16:57:11  <Samu> intel iris pro reviews are insane, rip AMD
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17:01:13  <Samu> that's sad to see, wathcing those graphs, even puts nvidia into jeopardy
17:03:25  <Samu> http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6993/55285.png
17:03:51  <sla_ro|master> :O
17:03:55  <sla_ro|master> I got GT 640
17:04:38  <Samu> it's still a quad-core cpu
17:04:44  <Samu> with HT
17:04:56  <sla_ro|master> I like NVIDIA, beside the price
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17:25:32  <Samu> I'm coming into a scoring scheme for the existing OpenTTD AIs
17:26:22  <Samu> an average score for each AI, running 16 different settings
17:27:23  *** ksf [~ksf@d186090.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #openttd
17:27:24  <Samu> and using excel this time, at least I can sort columns
17:27:37  <ksf> so... split before you join, *all times and always*?
17:27:43  <Samu> notepad would make me lost
17:27:49  <ksf> I've got a counterexample here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Frankfurter_Kreuz.png
17:28:32  *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.53.195] has joined #openttd
17:28:33  <ksf> (right lane traffic)
17:29:00  <Samu> hi ksf, wrong channel or did i miss somethnig
17:29:20  <ksf> nah, I just crashed in and defined the topic to be hub design.
17:30:55  <Samu> hmm I missed something :(
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17:32:09  <ksf> the usual problem with joining lines before you split is that that's prone to jamming.
17:33:31  <ksf> the formula in frankfurt, for the lower horizontal lane from left to right is split, join, split, join, though.
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17:38:19  <Samu> hias
17:39:45  <V453000> if you are trying to justify your broken game logic with a real-life road junction, good luck
17:40:17  <V453000> [yes split before join]
17:41:53  <ksf> it works because the join->split path actually only ever has crossing vehicles if they want to reverse.
17:42:56  <ksf> ...you could completely separate those lanes and end up with a pure split before join, at the expense of reversing.
17:43:38  <ksf> the question, here, is "is the rarest of rare cases worth the bother".
17:45:11  <V453000> why would you even let trains reverse in your junction
17:45:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25323 /trunk/src/lang (hungarian.txt traditional_chinese.txt) (2013-06-06 17:45:14 UTC)
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 34 changes by siu238X
17:45:25  <DorpsGek> hungarian - 5 changes by Brumi
17:45:29  <Pinkbeast> Er, it sounds more like "are real-world motorway junctions a good guide to designing OTTD railway junctions" (to which the answer is "no")
17:45:33  <V453000> if they need to reverse there is something seriously wrong on your network
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17:46:02  <Pinkbeast> Or, and I know what you're going to say, one has chased off after a depot oblivious to where that will take it next
17:46:13  <ksf> accidents can happen, especially when changing stuff.
17:46:43  <Pinkbeast> If you want to let trains reverse that can be done without futzing with complex junctions.
17:49:36  <ksf> you mean by futzing with equally complex reverse points?
17:50:13  <ksf> (that never get any kind of traffic)
17:50:39  <Pinkbeast> No; reversing can be done very simply if it is only to be used when mistakes happen, hence capacity not much of an issue.
17:51:13  <ksf> yes. and because capacity is not an issue, it can be done safely in a hub.
17:51:33  <ksf> ...even with join before split *for this case only*, as it's not going to jam anything.
17:52:23  <Pinkbeast> The junction you posted isn't join before split for this case only. (It's traffic crossing traffic for this case only).
17:54:19  <ksf> ...which implies join before split.
17:56:08  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25324 /trunk/bin/baseset (8 files) (2013-06-06 17:56:02 UTC)
17:56:09  <DorpsGek> -Update: the baseset translations
17:56:11  <Pinkbeast> It's also join before split for plenty of other cases.
17:56:46  <ksf> the vertical paths all support complete lane separation.
17:56:55  <Pinkbeast> X implies Y does not imply Y implies X; join before split does not imply traffic crossing traffic - trivially so when the mainline is one line each way
17:58:30  <ksf> ...note that you're not supposed to split off from the mainline and then later re-join the same one.
17:58:45  <Pinkbeast> On the face of it that junction looks like a classic example of what's wrong with join before split; extra capacity added in the junction to compensate. Trivial in this case; not so much in OTTD-land where a lane has quite a significant width.
17:59:56  <ksf> that's 4m per lane on the autobahn
18:00:58  <Pinkbeast> Er yes, and the junction is perhaps 800m across. An OTTD junction 200 tiles across might be felt to be unsatisfactory.
18:01:28  <ksf> well, it's only got three lanes.
18:01:53  <Pinkbeast> I have no idea what that's meant to convey.
18:02:07  <Pinkbeast> An OTTD lane is wider in relative terms than a real one.
18:02:39  <ksf> trains are generally relatively big in OTTD.
18:02:44  <ksf> ...and distances short.
18:03:02  <ksf> from the POV of the trains, at least.
18:03:02  <Samu> nerf trains
18:03:13  <Pinkbeast> ksf: I am well aware of these things, yes - so what?
18:03:57  <ksf> good question.
18:04:32  <Pinkbeast> The point is that on that thing, adding another pair of lanes parallel to the "mainline", or two, has essentially zero effect on junction size.
18:04:57  <Pinkbeast> Do that in the middle of an OTTD junction and it adds a significant amount to junction size.
18:05:52  <ksf> you have to bulid those lanes one way or the other.
18:06:10  <Samu> question, when starting a new company, could the color chosen be more random than it is?
18:06:17  <Pinkbeast> No, you don't! The whole point is that join before split demands extra capacity in the junction.
18:06:47  <Samu> it's not random enough :p
18:07:30  <ksf> if the intersection would join the cars coming from the lower left, driving upwards, early, then it'd have to have a separate lane for them. at the exact same place, just separate.
18:07:53  <ksf> the intersection is, to 99%, split before join when you make those dotted lines solid.
18:08:34  <ksf> ...the only thing where things, yes, cross, are the reversing cases.
18:08:43  <Pinkbeast> I think I am now sated with the thick field of incomprehension. Bye.
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18:21:30  <Samu> i have another little suggestion: when the game is paused, could the ***PAUSED*** text located at the news tooltip blink?
18:21:52  <Eddi|zuHause> that would be terrible
18:22:00  <Samu> :(
18:22:28  *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00880a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
18:23:01  <Samu> sometimes my parents call for help with the game, only to find out the train wasn't starting because the game was paused
18:23:35  <Samu> spending half an hour investigating why it wouldn't start, turns out it's paused, :(
18:24:01  <Samu> me included
18:24:33  <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: Why would that be terrible?
18:25:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i hate blinking stuff that distracts me from what i'm actually doing
18:27:51  <blathijs> Oh, I misread the request
18:28:17  <blathijs> I thought it was "Put ***PAUSED*** in news area", but it's already there
18:28:27  <blathijs> Blinking is probably not so cool, then :-)
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18:30:29  <Samu> if not blinking, then something visually obvious to catch attention
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18:32:43  <alluke> openttdcoop welcome server is the first good openttdcoop serverive found
18:32:50  <Eddi|zuHause> every time you make something idiot-proof, someone invents a better idiot
18:32:54  <alluke> only the grfs suck
18:33:33  <Samu> im not hosting any game today alluke
18:33:36  <Samu> i'm testing AIs
18:33:46  <alluke> huh?
18:33:50  <alluke> i didnt even ask you to do so
18:34:06  <Samu> ok
18:34:32  <V453000> right lets ask why do the newgrfs suck alluke  :)
18:34:59  <alluke> well not all
18:35:03  <alluke> but id swap some
18:36:02  <V453000> not to mention that they change there with every game, so your statement is quite fragile
18:36:11  <frosch123> "SetSet" <- awesome function name :)
18:36:19  <alluke> like dutch station set to dutch addition set
18:38:20  <V453000> sometimes they are there yes
18:38:42  <V453000> I dont think a station set is terribly vital to a newGRF setup though
18:40:38  <alluke> its just eyecandy
18:42:03  <V453000> exactly
18:43:06  <V453000> therefore I am still waiting for a reason why the newGRF setup sucks :)
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18:44:54  <alluke> it doesnt really suck
18:45:03  <alluke> but id add more trainsets
18:45:11  <alluke> variety is fun
18:45:42  <V453000> I dont think the current train set there has anything missing
18:46:04  <V453000> multiple train sets are an option with bad train sets which have holes
18:46:17  <V453000> like ukrs2, nars2, tropic refurbishment set, somewhat japanese train set
18:46:43  <alluke> i didnt mean mixed sets
18:47:14  <alluke> but you could have one complete train from db set and another one from fts
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18:47:30  <V453000> what?
18:48:32  <alluke> forget
18:49:19  <V453000> no, wtf did you mean by that
18:49:22  <V453000> one complete train from 2 sets
18:49:29  <V453000> without mixing two sets in one game
18:49:53  <alluke> no
18:49:59  <alluke> the exact opposite
18:50:08  <alluke> complete train from one set
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18:50:28  <V453000> what is a complete train?
18:50:38  <alluke> loco and coaches from same set
18:50:56  <frosch123> V453000: wheels and an engine?
18:51:05  *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
18:51:10  <V453000> right, every train set has that
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18:51:19  <V453000> so why do you suggest to add more train sets
18:51:20  <alluke> ppås
18:51:22  <alluke> oops
18:51:29  <alluke> more to choose
18:52:03  <V453000> one of them is usually better to choose
18:52:04  <V453000> so not really
18:53:16  <V453000> and/or they have different speeds etc, so you in the end use only one of them anyway
18:53:39  <alluke> some sets have better passenger stuff and some have better freight stuff
18:53:58  <V453000> which part is NUTS missing
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18:54:29  <alluke> i dont know
18:54:38  <alluke> im talking about the current welcome server game
18:54:46  <alluke> i never use nuts anyway
18:55:06  <V453000> and in the current welcome server game is nuts afaik
18:55:11  <alluke> nope
18:55:17  <alluke> theres temperate game with polish set
18:55:18  <V453000> oh, new game
18:55:24  <V453000> oh fucking christ
18:55:30  <alluke> the previous toyland was rubbish
18:55:43  <alluke> purple company is mine :P
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19:02:27  <Samu> the best AI for today's testing is currently: WrightAI
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19:03:38  <Samu> PathZilla vs WrightAI vs Rythorn Airline AI - each one soloing
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19:23:58  <Samu> i'm bored of life, listening to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4SiuPvd4Mw
19:25:16  <V453000> good that will kill you soon
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19:50:51  <Samu> hmm :9
19:59:24  <frosch123> who keeps emptying my coffee mug?
20:00:04  <Rubidium> frosch123: it's not me
20:09:42  * Alberth is drinking tea currently
20:10:04  <Eddi|zuHause> must be snow white
20:10:30  <Eddi|zuHause> "wer hat aus meinem Becherchen getrunken"?
20:11:23  <Rubidium> oh... *that* snow white
20:11:44  <V453000> methanol?
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20:22:53  <Samu> here's something I did with trains, i was very bored that day
20:22:55  <Samu> https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=23b29f3de45f6f1f#cid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F&id=23B29F3DE45F6F1F%21473
20:23:07  <Samu> https://rupavq.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2pqVucGiVHyACa2t7ymf43H6P388flewPDWBPH11zIqN6_fqm0EO61XCLYPaykvpL-u3d5pwk_A2RNYtbJ93HbdLoegTnNCIff2rvjIhUpdF4/Unnamed%2C%202068-11-22.png?psid=1
20:23:13  <Samu> sorry, 2nd link
20:23:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i should just ban all microsoft sites, they never load
20:24:02  <alluke> whats that?
20:24:27  <alluke> huge mess
20:24:50  <Samu> it works, until I found out I could only put 15 trains there
20:25:13  <Samu> decided to investigate and came up with all those signs
20:25:16  <Samu> :(
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20:25:55  <perk11> why do you use two-way tracks?
20:26:17  <perk11> 3 tracks one way and 3 tracks other way would work with any amount of trains
20:26:30  <perk11> untill all th tracks are full
20:27:16  <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/more_efficient.png (the three steel trains)
20:27:57  <Rubidium> you get pretty creative when there are AIs around making messy "obstacles"
20:30:17  <glx> too much invisible stuff
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20:30:45  <frosch123> i assume the steel trains are from the ai :)
20:31:04  <Rubidium> nope, they're mine
20:31:48  <alluke> lol do you call that a steel train
20:31:50  <V453000> XD
20:31:54  <alluke> this is one
20:31:55  <alluke> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/stalin.png
20:32:03  <alluke> carries 638 tons
20:32:26  <Rubidium> alluke: it carries 404 at most
20:32:31  <alluke> nope
20:32:33  <V453000> more or less
20:32:36  <perk11> :D
20:32:43  <alluke> wow
20:32:45  <alluke> 404 indeed
20:33:04  <alluke> looks like its still syncing
20:33:16  <Rubidium> longer trains don't work, since the lower station is at maximum length
20:33:22  <alluke> either db or my inter net is fucked up
20:34:01  <Rubidium> and the three trains are timed in such a manner that they do not interfere with eachother, but that needs the third track
20:34:13  <alluke> that train is 7 tiles
20:35:31  <frosch123> hmm, the stations signs should have given me a hint earlier :s
20:35:36  <alluke> now
20:35:40  <alluke> the link works
20:35:43  <alluke> take a look
20:36:04  <V453000> wow you managed to construct a train with higher capacity
20:36:12  <perk11> alluke: and why is it called "Stalin"?
20:36:13  <V453000> teach us
20:36:15  <frosch123> lol what?
20:36:25  <alluke> because it means steel
20:36:25  <frosch123> i expected a rl photo...
20:36:41  <perk11> it means Stalin
20:36:52  <alluke> stalin = steel
20:36:55  <alluke> in russian
20:36:58  <perk11> and there was a train called Iosif Stalin
20:37:04  <frosch123> is the joke that the train is very old, so it is scrap metal by itself?
20:38:13  <frosch123> yeah, old trains carrying steel can almost achieve 100% payload
20:38:34  <alluke> and dont require unloading
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20:38:43  <frosch123> you can drive the whole train directly into the furnace
20:39:14  <frosch123> maybe some wagons could also be loaded with coal
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20:39:36  <alluke> super efficient
20:39:42  <alluke> the driver just needs to jump out
20:40:45  <perk11> alluke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_locomotive_class_IS this trains was called after Stalin, and it doesn't mean steel in Russian
20:41:12  <perk11> so when I saw the link I thought you have it in openttd :)
20:41:44  <alluke> right
20:41:55  <alluke> google translate says that stal means steel
20:42:02  <alluke> i guess stalin means made of steel
20:42:31  <perk11> no it doesn't mean anything, except the name
20:42:53  <perk11> Google Translate is pretty bad with russian translation
20:43:27  <perk11> the word for steel is stal :)
20:43:33  <alluke> yes
20:48:59  <frosch123> night
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21:45:29  <alluke> why the fuck is itunes 390 mb?????
21:45:34  <alluke> its just a music player
21:46:27  <glx> no it's a store too
21:46:39  <alluke> ok its not 390 mb xD
21:46:45  <alluke> that included security update
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22:04:20  <Samu> buff amd or they go rip
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22:14:40  <Eddi|zuHause> who the what now?
22:16:03  <V453000> yes
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