Config
Log for #openttd on 17th June 2013:
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10:55:20  <MNIM> wtf.
11:06:13  <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.funn-house.net/assets/uploads/1363635477.jpg
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11:15:04  <Ristovski> planetmaker: Hello, any idea why doing "make install" in opengfx dir doesnt install it?
11:24:28  <MNIM> Eddi|zuHause: what's interesting about it?
11:25:13  <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: it looks exactly like a police car, but says "brewery" on it
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11:26:04  <MNIM> ah. I thought german police cars were green-white?
11:26:31  <Eddi|zuHause> they used to be, but some EU regulation made them switch to blue/silver
11:27:03  <MNIM> also, that's not that uncommon - the brewery I worked at had its own fire department, with blue trucls
11:27:52  <MNIM> a fire truck in police-y colours, with the brewery logo on it. :P
11:28:17  <MNIM> and dammit, EU, can you not not meddle with stuff one day?
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13:00:53  <oskari89> How about level crossing types feature by the way?
13:01:16  <MNIM> Is that sentence even supposed to make sense?
13:01:22  <oskari89> So one could choose level crossing type, like a bridge type, when built?
13:01:34  <planetmaker> Ristovski, what does "not install it" look like?
13:02:09  <oskari89> Dutch stations set has several types of level crossings, those could be made functional by that
13:02:09  <planetmaker> and what is the OS environment you executed that command under?
13:02:37  <oskari89> There's several types of Finnish level crossings too, and those would be nice :)
13:02:43  <planetmaker> oskari89, use the random (pseudo-)bits to show different ones ;-)
13:02:47  <Ristovski> planetmaker: I did "hg up" to get the latest opengfx source, I compiled it, make install'ed, and openttd still says it's missing sprites, installing ot from "online content" works
13:02:56  <Ristovski> using latest svn revision
13:02:56  <oskari89> planetmaker: ok
13:03:14  <oskari89> Can you use different graphics by placement year?
13:03:20  <planetmaker> yes
13:03:21  <oskari89> With older remaining?
13:03:32  <planetmaker> hm... not sure about level crossings
13:03:44  <planetmaker> check with swedishrails
13:03:47  <Ristovski> planetmaker: I even manually copied the built files from opengfx to the baseset folder, and still says sprites are missing
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13:03:53  <planetmaker> they have old and new types, oskari89
13:03:58  <oskari89> Ok
13:04:28  <planetmaker> but IIRC it is like switching automatically to new... so build year might not be available there
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13:04:45  <oskari89> That would be nice :)
13:05:04  <oskari89> More variation in level crossing graphics :P
13:05:34  <planetmaker> iirc the transition there is gradual from old to new. Using the 4 pseudo-random bits to avoid an all at once conversion
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13:06:27  <planetmaker> Ristovski, and that was also true after you restarted openttd, yes?
13:06:30  <oskari89> planetmaker: i have 9 types of level crossing graphics ;)
13:06:34  <Ristovski> planetmaker: Yes
13:06:42  <oskari89> Ready to be coded
13:06:58  <planetmaker> oskari89, use them for different rail types
13:07:06  <planetmaker> e.g. one for rail, one for elrail
13:07:19  <oskari89> Could make sense
13:07:34  <oskari89> And the rural and non-rural gives variation also
13:07:45  <oskari89> (City and non-city)
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13:09:29  <planetmaker> Ristovski, and which openttd did you use? some 1.4.0-alpha (trunk), yes?
13:09:46  <Ristovski> planetmaker: I am using the latest svn revision
13:09:52  <Ristovski> let me get the build number
13:10:07  <Ristovski> planetmaker: r25420
13:10:26  <planetmaker> ok, and you compiled which opengfx version?
13:10:43  <planetmaker> was it actually successful?
13:10:48  <Ristovski> planetmaker: It was
13:11:19  <Ristovski> planetmaker: Again, I compiled the latest source, I am using the mercurial source
13:11:56  <Ristovski> It works If I install the OpenGFX 0.4.7 version from online content
13:12:20  <planetmaker> what is 'latest'? please quote the revision. The source has two branches
13:12:33  <planetmaker> thus nml version used also matters
13:12:46  <planetmaker> whether it will compile successfully or not
13:12:55  <Ristovski> ok
13:13:22  <planetmaker> and what OS do you use? That's crucial info, too
13:13:54  <Ristovski> planetmaker: I am now running Debian Wheezy, btw, how do I see what revision the OpenGFX source is?
13:14:20  <planetmaker> hg id
13:14:31  <Ristovski> planetmaker: 10db0a4895e3
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13:15:05  <Ristovski> planetmaker: And it does compile normally, I just tried it again, no errors
13:15:53  <Ristovski> planetmaker: I found the problem, it errors out if you try to do "sudo make install", when i did just make install it worked
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13:17:26  <planetmaker> uh... that's not 'latest' at all the revision you built
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13:17:32  <planetmaker> didn't you update by chance?
13:17:42  <Ristovski> planetmaker: I did do "hg update"
13:17:54  <Ristovski> said it's already up-to-date
13:18:00  <planetmaker> hg id reported 10db0a4895e3. That's r1008, right?
13:18:18  <Ristovski> yes
13:18:21  <planetmaker> OpenGFX 0.4.7 is r1021 in the official repo
13:18:29  <Ristovski> Thats weird...
13:18:38  <Ristovski> planetmaker: How to see what repo I cloned?
13:19:05  <planetmaker> .hg/hgrc has the info
13:19:37  <Ristovski> planetmaker: "http://hg.openttdcoop.org/opengfx"
13:19:46  <Ristovski> Thats the official one afaik
13:19:59  <planetmaker> yes
13:20:16  <Ristovski> Then why does it say it's the latest version when it's not?
13:22:39  <planetmaker> maybe automatic updating failed to to crossing branches?
13:23:11  <Ristovski> planetmaker: How can I force it to update?
13:23:17  <Ristovski> or should I just clone it again?
13:23:36  <planetmaker> hg up -C
13:25:31  <Ristovski> planetmaker: I cloned it again
13:25:45  <Ristovski> let me compile it and see if it works
13:27:01  <planetmaker> Ristovski, still... make sure you use the correct NML for the correct branch. I don't know, but I expect at least oddities when compiling the extra grf with an NML from the wrong branch
13:27:14  <planetmaker> though it *should* complain, if it's wrong
13:27:39  <Ristovski> ok
13:28:08  <Ristovski> it works
13:32:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm amazed and appalled at the same time how OzTranz et al. always figure out new ways to offend the community
13:33:21  <Belugas> hello
13:36:47  <MNIM> Whoops.
13:36:57  <MNIM> oh wait, wrong channel
13:37:06  <MNIM> nevermind, nothing to see here, please keep moving
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16:00:00  <Terkhen> hello
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16:58:42  <Ristovski> Lol, only guy who has a OpenTTD series, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=864upPCFIKA
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17:45:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25421 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2013-06-17 17:45:33 UTC)
17:45:48  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:49  <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 58 changes by siu238X
17:45:50  <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 12 changes by siu238X
17:45:52  <DorpsGek> galician - 6 changes by Michi
17:45:53  <DorpsGek> german - 3 changes by Jogio
17:45:54  <DorpsGek> korean - 4 changes by telk5093
17:45:55  <DorpsGek> thai - 54 changes by nirakanz
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18:10:09  <George> It would be very nice to have FS#5588 provided. How hard this task is?
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18:37:02  <Wolf01> hello
18:40:32  <planetmaker> George, I don't feel like I can exactly answer it. But the main difficulty is the decision whether it's sensible. Or / if / how to solve the actual problem. IMHO the issue only shows a problem, not sure your suggestion is the fix
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19:03:55  <planetmaker> George, you're not serious about FS#5600, yes?
19:03:55  <planetmaker> Introduce a new vehicle
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19:04:48  <George> planetmaker: I'm very serious
19:05:08  <George> The change is for existing vehicles via CB36
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19:05:30  <George> introducing now vehicles does not role at all
19:05:46  <planetmaker> yes. If the change is so drastical that you need to announce it via news message... it's a new vehicle
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19:06:26  <George> The situation: there is a SS locomotive (produced in 1932-1934)
19:06:42  <George> vehicle life is 40 years
19:07:13  <George> In 1945 al the SS locomotives reduce their speed from80 to km/h
19:07:25  <George> to 70
19:07:38  <George> (reduce is more than 10%)
19:08:07  <George> To inform a player about the problem the news message is required
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19:10:04  <George> Of cause writing about it in a read me is not a solution - nobody reads it :)
19:11:03  <planetmaker> And why do they drive only 70 from 1945 onwards? That's not an engine but an operation limiation, I'd say
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19:12:48  <planetmaker> who reads news messages, George ? I read them less than actually readmes :-)
19:13:20  <George> It's an operational limitation
19:13:33  <George> And it id coded in xUSSR set
19:13:52  <George> the questuion is to inform the player about it
19:14:00  <planetmaker> thus the vehicle doesn't change. It's wrong then
19:14:16  <George> It is historical
19:14:36  <planetmaker> yes. But the player does operation. And buys *vehicles*. Not hires a taxi
19:14:56  <planetmaker> players can set a speed limit of 70km/h as operational limitation
19:15:08  <planetmaker> historical is to destroy half the world between 1939 and 1945
19:15:22  <planetmaker> it's unrealistic that the game doesn't?
19:15:30  <planetmaker> It's actually a design goal the game doesn't.
19:15:50  <George> There is something like that in xUSSR - you do not get new locomotives in 1941-1945
19:16:04  <planetmaker> that's vehicles. Not operation
19:17:07  <George> Anyway the speed reduce is historical and it is already coded. My request is to allow the GRF to inform the player about the change.
19:17:29  <George> news message is the only way to do it
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19:21:06  <planetmaker> generally, the idea to be able to generate news events might not be bad... Problem is. CB 36 does not cut it
19:21:13  <planetmaker> CB 36 affects vehicles. Not models
19:21:22  <George> Theoretically I can take one industry slot and provide 1x1 empty industry, which has 1 industry per map limitation, has high probability to be appear and have the only function to generate messages, but it is a dirty hack :(
19:21:34  <planetmaker> Thus every train of that type would trigger a news message. So you would... trigger 500 identical messages
19:21:41  <planetmaker> And you cannot have models generate it
19:21:48  <planetmaker> That concept doesn't exactly exist
19:22:10  <frosch123> planetmaker: it's called purchase list :)
19:22:24  <planetmaker> hm :-)
19:22:37  <George> yes, but why not to have a GENERAL message generator, that specifies what text, what type and wen to generate?
19:22:43  <frosch123> technically it's easy. just do a monthly purchase list callback
19:22:47  <planetmaker> but that's only called... when purchase list is called. Thus... whenever the user opens it
19:22:53  <planetmaker> but hm...
19:23:14  <frosch123> then you can make that cb trigger a news message, or even more annoying: a blue window :p
19:23:36  <planetmaker> great
19:23:47  <frosch123> but well, blue window does not make a lot of sense, if there is nothing to answer
19:24:06  <planetmaker> news message. which ends up in trigger at best :-)
19:24:40  <planetmaker> important to me is only "new vehicle", "accidents". That's it
19:25:38  <planetmaker> generally the ability to create a news message can make sense
19:26:33  <frosch123> you use the ticker?
19:26:46  <frosch123> i never read the ticker so disabled any of it
19:27:03  <frosch123> i wondered about changnig the ticker to scroll vertical instead
19:27:13  <frosch123> more like a scrolling news history or so
19:27:39  <frosch123> like it is actually done in most modern games :p
19:27:58  <frosch123> the slow tickering ticker is completely unreadable
19:28:13  <frosch123> it's like reading a second, do 5 seconds something else, then catch back up :p
19:28:36  <planetmaker> I never read ticker either.
19:29:30  <planetmaker> your suggestion for change might be good. But means changing size of status bar. Kinda. Or you have not won reading time really
19:30:47  <frosch123> it could also work like chat
19:31:23  <frosch123> or like a tooltip
19:31:38  <frosch123> show the complete message in normal sized font for a few seconds, then go to next one
19:31:39  <planetmaker> rather like chat maybe
19:31:48  <planetmaker> like chat is not bad
19:31:56  <frosch123> i am not sure :p
19:32:02  <frosch123> real chat on the left, news on the right
19:32:04  <frosch123> might look fancy :p
19:32:10  <frosch123> also you cannot click it
19:32:31  <frosch123> hmm, ok, you cannot exactly click the ticker either, but you get the full news then, which you can click instead
19:34:48  <planetmaker> yes... seldomly used by me, though
19:35:36  <frosch123> well, if you do not want to click it, you do not have to show it in the first place :p
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20:32:13  <V453000> can someone please test what version is this ? [22:25] <PublicServer> V453000: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r25385/openttd-trunk-r25385-windows-win64.zip
20:32:20  <V453000> because when I unzip it, it gives 25396
20:32:24  <V453000> tried multiple times
20:32:39  <V453000> overwriting folders, making clean folders
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20:36:09  <glx> V453000: it's 25385 for me
20:36:38  <frosch123> V453000: do you have some checksum utility on your site?
20:36:44  <frosch123> maybe the mirrors service different files
20:37:00  <frosch123> i.e. do you get the same file as we do :p
20:37:13  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25422 trunk/src/linkgraph/linkgraphjob.cpp (2013-06-17 20:37:07 UTC)
20:37:14  <DorpsGek> -Fix: properly initialize base capacity for paths
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20:37:36  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25423 trunk/src/linkgraph/linkgraphjob.h (2013-06-17 20:37:31 UTC)
20:37:37  <DorpsGek> -Fix: integer overflows in MCF solver
20:38:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25424 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-17 20:38:11 UTC)
20:38:18  <DorpsGek> -Fix: keep old flows around in an invalidated state to continue routing cargo if necessary
20:38:27  <frosch123> V453000: 7703948 bytes here
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20:45:55  <V453000> hm :o
20:46:23  <V453000> strange
20:46:29  <V453000> the zip is somehow broken indeed
20:47:56  <planetmaker> opened too early?
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21:03:48  <V453000> no it has 27mb
21:03:49  <V453000> idk how
21:03:59  <V453000> assuming I moved my openttd folder into it
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21:06:28  <Terkhen> good night
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21:08:27  <frosch123> night
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21:15:36  <Wolf01> 'night
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