Config
Log for #openttd on 26th June 2013:
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07:59:16  <andythenorth> hmm
07:59:28  <andythenorth> it would be evil to not provide TE_WATER cargo in this economy
07:59:53  <andythenorth> or to make BEER have TE_WATER :P
08:01:45  <planetmaker> seven bear is also a small meal. And then you haven't even drunk anything ;-)
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09:58:51  <__ln__> buongiorno
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10:03:06  <andythenorth> anyone find FIRS games take 10 mins for map gen?  (1024x1024) ?
10:06:49  <juzza1> inspired by the forum post i tested it, 2048x2048 took about 20 seconds
10:06:59  <lugo> not me, and i have a quite old notebook (1,3ghz single core), takes about a minute
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10:20:14  <kero> andythenorth absolutely not. Some second here (coulnd't tell exactly)
10:20:50  <kero> he probably has some specific problem
10:22:08  <__ln__> what would be an interesting place to spend ~3 days in central germany?
10:22:25  <kero> Wurzburg is nice
10:23:22  <kero> There's a nice episcopal palace to visit, and there is good wine :)
10:24:45  <__ln__> ok, that is a possibility.
10:25:02  <kero> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marienberg_Fortress
10:25:26  <kero> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%BCrzburg_Residenz
10:26:44  <kero> Bamberg is also probably pretty, but i've never been
10:31:26  <__ln__> any opinions on Wuppertal?
10:35:15  <andythenorth> got a monorail
10:39:40  <__ln__> yes, i've tested that and it was cool, but i don't really remember anything else of the city.
10:44:18  <kero> I don't know Wuppertal, but I've heard nice things about Köln, which is quite near
10:50:56  <andythenorth> I like Cologne a lot
10:51:02  <andythenorth> big cathedral
10:52:38  <kero> yeah it's a known one
11:06:29  <Eddi|zuHause> you can find things to visit in any medium sized city
11:07:00  <Eddi|zuHause> and neither Köln nor WÌrzburg are in "central germany" :p
11:07:28  <Eddi|zuHause> the "center" of germany is probably around Erfurt
11:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> you can walk from braunschweig to erfurt, that should take roughly 3 days :p
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11:11:09  <__ln__> that would actually be interesting :)
11:12:00  <planetmaker> 3 days, Eddi|zuHause ?
11:12:10  <Eddi|zuHause> google says 35 hours, so if you walk 12 hours a day
11:12:11  <planetmaker> you're a quick walker
11:12:24  <planetmaker> and you walk 12 hours a day?
11:12:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not crazy :p
11:12:42  <planetmaker> you haven't done a lot of hiking, did you?
11:12:55  <tokai|noir> Eddi|zuHause: Niederdorla claims to be the center of Germany :)
11:13:28  <tokai|noir> Not too far from here, I can easily reach it with bike in few hours. :)
11:13:30  <planetmaker> many places claim that. with different reasons and different... quality of claims
11:15:36  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: anyway, my father has this project where he wants to walk from Nordhausen to Ilsenburg in 1 days, but he never fully succeeded
11:16:13  <tokai|noir> planetmaker: From my point of view the center is always under my feet. From there I can look all around. :)
11:16:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not that fond of hiking myself :)
11:16:44  <planetmaker> tokai|noir, there we agree. Only on the definition of "my" we differ :-)
11:17:14  <andythenorth> must be weird living in the middle of a large landmass
11:17:24  * andythenorth is 5 miles from the sea and prefers it that way
11:17:34  <andythenorth> sea / big muddy estuary /s
11:17:46  <kero> where ?
11:18:09  <kero> if it's not to personal question :)
11:18:40  <tokai|noir> andythenorth: Still better in the mid of Germany or Europe than in the mid of the Sahara, Gobi or Siberia (though Siberia probably has its charm :) )
11:20:41  <Eddi|zuHause> there was this story a while back about a russian family who lived for decades in an otherwise uninhabited stretch of mountains in sibiria
11:21:54  <Eddi|zuHause> they had no contact with other humans fromt he mid-40s to like the 80s, when some geological survey group stumbled upon them
11:23:45  <tokai|noir> Sounds like those cases of Japanese soldiers who protected some small islands by themselves years after Word War II. :)
11:24:01  <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely.
11:24:17  <Eddi|zuHause> originally the family fled from religious suppression
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13:10:59  <Belugas> hello
13:11:18  <Xaroth|Work> o/
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14:13:55  <__ln__> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/26/books/scholar-asserts-that-hollywood-avidly-aided-nazis.html
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14:15:29  <Eddi|zuHause> nice paywall
14:16:09  <__ln__> there's a paywall?
14:16:32  <Eddi|zuHause> at least if you disable cookies and javascript
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15:02:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25474 trunk/src/os/macosx/osx_stdafx.h (2013-06-26 15:02:16 UTC)
15:02:23  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5618]: OS X compilation failure
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15:39:52  <Mazur> Is there a shortcut to select a type of rail when building rail?
15:40:07  <Mazur> And why not?
15:42:42  <planetmaker> there's a setting for 'last used' 'most used' and maybe it also has the option 'first available'
15:43:40  <Mazur> Yeah, IÂŽm working with two types at the same time.
15:44:03  <Mazur> Experiment.
15:44:50  <Mazur> Maglev for Pax and electrified for freight.
15:46:01  <Mazur> Switching is a bitch.
15:55:39  <Terkhen> hello
15:57:19  <__ln__> hello T
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16:33:46  <andythenorth> hello Terkhen
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17:45:36  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25475 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-06-26 17:45:27 UTC)
17:45:37  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:38  <DorpsGek> czech - 59 changes by Eskymak
17:45:39  <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 8 changes by Phreeze
17:45:40  <DorpsGek> slovak - 27 changes by Milsa
17:45:41  <DorpsGek> thai - 4 changes by nirakanz
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17:55:40  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause can you recall what we think is slow about nml compiles?  Is it walking all the switches to resolve identifiers down to bytes?
17:55:47  <andythenorth> I recall that being discussed
17:56:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know anymore, i circumvented all parts of nml except reading in the parse tree (ply)
17:57:06  <andythenorth> nvm
17:57:07  <Eddi|zuHause> expression resolving (operators, etc.) was also really slow
17:57:27  <andythenorth> ah
17:58:02  <Eddi|zuHause> so i put all template offset calculations into the python steop
17:58:32  <andythenorth> hmm
17:58:34  <andythenorth> that's interesting
17:58:39  <Eddi|zuHause> writing the graphics wasn't fast either
17:58:55  <andythenorth> iirc the spritecache sped that up?
17:58:56  <Eddi|zuHause> but i now use grfcodec for that
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17:59:03  <andythenorth> hmm
17:59:10  <Eddi|zuHause> so i can't really say whether the cache helped
17:59:11  <andythenorth> maybe I should change the pipeline and put grfcodec in it
17:59:47  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should change your workflow so you don't do "make clean" every time :p
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18:03:52  <andythenorth> I did :P
18:04:53  <Eddi|zuHause> what was also slow was that the dep run basically did everything twice, so i completely removed that and wrote the deps from the python step as well
18:05:35  <Eddi|zuHause> the dep run reads through the nml file and outputs all used graphics files
18:05:44  <andythenorth> I wonder if planetmaker changed that
18:05:53  <andythenorth> I don't think I see that happen anymore
18:06:04  <Eddi|zuHause> since i know in the python step which graphics files i put in there, i can use that information right there to generate the deps file
18:06:11  <andythenorth> +1
18:06:13  <andythenorth> hmm
18:06:17  <andythenorth> I could do that too :P
18:06:34  <andythenorth> 2m24 to compile FIRS
18:06:42  <andythenorth> better than 3m, but not great
18:06:49  <andythenorth> nfo FIRS was ~20s :(
18:07:09  <andythenorth> still, means I get to watch a lot of YT :P
18:07:28  <Eddi|zuHause> CETS is more like 17m (but -j6 able, so 17/6 'real' time)
18:08:11  <andythenorth> I could put python multiprocessing on the preprocess step
18:08:16  <andythenorth> that would get me maybe a 3x increase
18:08:25  <planetmaker> in the newest versions I removed that, yes
18:08:28  <andythenorth> so I might save 2s :P
18:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> you removed the deps run from the makefile?
18:09:23  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so is resolving expressions like this believed slow?
18:09:24  <andythenorth>             hide_sprite: (climate != CLIMATE_ARCTIC) || (climate == CLIMATE_ARCTIC) && ((nearby_tile_height(0, 0) < (snowline_height - 1)) || (nearby_tile_height(0, 0) >= (snowline_height + 0)));
18:10:24  <andythenorth> I have a crapload of those :P
18:10:36  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: possible, but those are expressions you can't simplify. i had lots of expressions (a+2*b+x-y) which gave a compile-time result
18:10:42  <andythenorth> ah
18:11:00  <andythenorth> where it's obvious to me, I do that in python too
18:11:08  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes, I did
18:11:22  <andythenorth> I wonder if I should just write myself a more complicated preprocessor
18:11:23  <planetmaker> it's only used, if you use graphics generation
18:11:35  <andythenorth> so I can compile individual industries with a parameter
18:11:45  <planetmaker> but then also in a different manner which does not need creating the nml first
18:11:49  <andythenorth> can python do conditional imports?
18:12:07  <andythenorth> I bet it can :P
18:12:13  <Eddi|zuHause> if <condition>: import blah
18:12:19  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that should be possible
18:12:44  <planetmaker> andythenorth, #ifdef PARAMETER
18:12:49  <planetmaker> #include blah.pnml
18:12:51  <planetmaker> #fi
18:13:20  <andythenorth> ho, that's interesting
18:13:33  <andythenorth> I generate the pnml file with the includes
18:13:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it's "#endif" :p
18:13:37  <andythenorth> so I could do that
18:13:46  <planetmaker> ok, #endif
18:14:19  <andythenorth> the problem is that industries reference each other
18:14:30  <andythenorth> which is explodey for partial compiles
18:14:33  <andythenorth> but I could also fix that
18:15:11  <andythenorth> planetmaker: two extra lines around L33 here :P https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/header_items/master_control_program.pypnml
18:15:41  <andythenorth> doesn't solve the industries referencing each other
18:16:04  <andythenorth> then teach the makefile about a parameter
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18:16:27  <planetmaker> no need
18:16:37  <planetmaker> make -DPARAMETER=XX
18:16:43  <Wolf01> hoi
18:16:59  <andythenorth> a single industry is a 20s compile
18:17:08  <planetmaker> hm... but might need for the gcc options
18:17:10  <andythenorth> much better when all I want to do is fix graphics etc
18:17:15  <andythenorth> I might do this
18:18:06  <andythenorth> hmm.  An industry with simple graphics is ~10s to compile
18:29:50  <andythenorth> so I'd need to wrap #ifdef around the neighbouring industry check for every industry
18:30:18  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz
18:30:19  <__ln__> hi Wolf01
18:30:21  <ZxBiohazardZx> in cargodest
18:30:22  <ZxBiohazardZx> when sorting
18:30:31  <ZxBiohazardZx> i have "Sort By v "
18:30:34  <ZxBiohazardZx> Station: Waiting
18:30:47  <ZxBiohazardZx> Group by "Via-Destination-Source"
18:31:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> why can i not sort it by "ammount" via ?
18:31:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah nvm
18:31:20  <ZxBiohazardZx> found :p
18:31:25  <ZxBiohazardZx> ammount: waiting :P
18:31:52  <andythenorth> is it bad to litter my code with conditionals that only exist for optimising compile times?
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18:49:59  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25476 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-26 18:49:53 UTC)
18:50:00  <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Remove unused _max_char_size, _max_char_height, _max_char_width.
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19:10:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25477 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-26 19:10:22 UTC)
19:10:29  <DorpsGek> -Fix: truncation didn't work because the string was truncated (or rather a newline was added) too early
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19:25:59  <andythenorth> planetmaker: you busy, or want to help me figure out selective compiles?
19:27:47  <Rubidium> orudge: you got speed with the Thalys wifi network?
19:27:59  <planetmaker> I try to find stuff in xussr currently
19:28:02  <Rubidium> or rather, the wifi network worked?
19:28:45  <Rubidium> last time it worked, it took about two minutes to update the simple "departure times at station X page" of the train company
19:29:05  <Rubidium> and for sending a small mail I needed only about half an hour
19:35:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25478 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-26 19:35:40 UTC)
19:35:47  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Clip glyphs using the actual sprite dimensions instead of the text advancement.
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20:29:37  <TomyLobo> hi
20:29:42  <andythenorth> o/
20:30:02  <TomyLobo> in 1.3.1 multiplayer, can I change the "vehicle breakdowns" setting without starting a new game?
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20:30:37  <frosch123> what happens if you try?
20:31:11  <TomyLobo> i cant find the difficulty settings dialog
20:31:24  <frosch123> it's all in advanced settings
20:33:23  <TomyLobo> found it
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20:38:38  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25479 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2013-06-26 20:38:32 UTC)
20:38:39  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r23861): [NewGRF] When cargo NewGRF define a mulitplier to modify vehicle capacities, use the same multiplier to modify loading speed.
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20:41:02  <orudge> Rubidium: I seem to recall so, yes
20:41:05  <orudge> I'm not sure how accurate it was, mind you
20:44:56  <orudge> but I'm sure at one point it was reporting 300km/h-ish
20:48:42  <TomyLobo> i keep accidentally skipping orders by pressing D
20:49:01  <TomyLobo> when i want to get the destroy tool instead
20:49:12  <frosch123> edit ~/.openttd/hotkeys.cfg and change the hotkey assignment
20:49:37  <TomyLobo> i'm the host of a game right now. can i reload that file while the game is running?
20:49:45  <TomyLobo> or even bind it via the console?
20:49:54  <frosch123> i think neither
20:51:27  <TomyLobo> ok
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21:03:32  <frosch123> night
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21:17:15  <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r25480 /trunk (config.lib src/os/macosx/osx_stdafx.h) (2013-06-26 21:17:09 UTC)
21:17:16  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: [OSX] OS X SDK versions >= 10.5 always have a non-const iconv declaration.
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21:32:31  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:43:50  <andythenorth> hmm
21:44:04  <andythenorth> I need a name for a plantation that grows fibre crops (sisal and cotton)
21:44:14  <andythenorth> 'plantation' is too generic :P
21:44:21  <andythenorth> 'cotton plantation' is too specific
21:46:31  <andythenorth> he he, I'm running out of industry ids :)
21:47:38  <andythenorth> also out of battery :P
21:47:40  <andythenorth> good night
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