Config
Log for #openttd on 7th July 2013:
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00:48:12  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i found the original box, and this sheet of paper says 3 years warranty
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02:31:57  <sound> i am facing a sound problem on windows
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07:15:27  <andythenorth> python list comprehensions: how do I drop one specific item from the result?
07:15:32  <andythenorth> based on the value
07:15:47  <andythenorth> if item is 'foo' I don't want it
07:20:37  <andythenorth> oh, it's trivial :P
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08:09:46  <Eddi|zuHause> [x for x in foo if x != bar]
08:10:03  <Eddi|zuHause> well whatever
08:20:01  <Alberth> andy is way too fast these days :)
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08:22:58  <Alberth> moin
08:23:42  <frosch123> moin :)
08:23:53  <frosch123> you were only one hour earlier than me today :)
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09:00:54  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25571 extra/masterserver_updater/src/contentserver/handler.cpp (2013-07-07 09:00:47 UTC)
09:00:55  <DorpsGek> [MSU] -Fix: assertion triggered in contentserver
09:02:19  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25572 extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/mysql.cpp (2013-07-07 09:02:13 UTC)
09:02:20  <DorpsGek> [MSU] -Change/fix-ish: make order of results from the content server more reliable
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09:26:54  <LordAro> heyo
09:29:17  <Alberth> hi hi
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09:48:20  <Terkhen> good morning
09:49:26  <Alberth> mornink Terkhen
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10:29:42  <LordAro> hmm, HD 7770 or HD 7850 ?
10:30:49  <Rubidium> 1080i
10:33:41  <LordAro> ?
10:37:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25573 /trunk/src (lang/slovak.txt network/core/tcp_content.cpp) (2013-07-07 10:37:16 UTC)
10:37:23  <DorpsGek> -Change: make content list appear faster by allowing some window redraws in between
10:41:08  <LordAro> " What arbitrary number to choose is the ultimate question though." hehe :)
10:41:53  <frosch123> he did not pick 85 though
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10:52:36  <andythenorth_> o/
10:52:45  <Alberth> hi hi
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11:11:14  <Wolf01> hello
11:12:59  <Alberth> hi Wolf01
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12:07:12  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25574 /trunk/src (gfx_layout.cpp gfx_layout.h) (2013-07-07 12:07:06 UTC)
12:07:13  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25570): Trouble with initialisation order of static members of Layouter and FontCache.
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14:25:04  <LordAro> this... is quite impressive http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/4300
14:27:24  <Wolf01> yes, it is
14:29:15  <Alberth> nice :)
14:40:42  <Alberth> writing an assembler is fun :)
14:41:07  <Wolf01> I did it once, and it was just a logic ic tester
14:41:36  <Eddi|zuHause> not "write in assembler", "write _an_ assembler"
14:42:05  <Eddi|zuHause> as in, the program that transforms assembler code into machine code
14:42:40  <Wolf01> misread, the a and the i are so similar :P
14:43:20  <Alberth> it's a common mistake
14:43:21  <Eddi|zuHause> grfcodec is some sort of assembler
14:43:41  <Alberth> input language is quite easy :p
14:44:22  <Alberth> no labels and constants  :)
14:47:41  <Eddi|zuHause> there are jump labels somewhere
14:48:39  * frosch123 approves jumping
14:49:17  <Eddi|zuHause> # jump! jump!
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14:49:25  <Eddi|zuHause> man that was aaaages ago
14:49:46  <frosch123> you're an old man
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15:45:18  <alluke> what licence does dutch station set have
15:46:12  <frosch123> does it have a readme or license file?
15:46:23  <alluke> dont know
15:46:45  <alluke> but i modded some platforms for friss and thought id post them to the friss topic
15:46:50  <alluke> without getting trouble
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15:48:11  <frosch123> hmm, yeah, it is not properly licensed
15:48:56  <frosch123> XeryusTC: please add a licence or copying file to the repository
15:49:47  <frosch123> oh, untouched since 2008
15:50:30  <alluke> i think noone minds it since quast made the addition set
15:53:52  <XeryusTC> it has no license? :o
15:54:28  <frosch123> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchstations/repository <- nothing there
15:55:08  <XeryusTC> how odd
15:55:21  <XeryusTC> pm mustÂŽve missed that one when he scolded me for not adding licenses to my projects
15:56:36  <alluke> and who drew  the canadian stations brick platforms
15:56:53  <frosch123> does it have a readme?
15:57:43  <XeryusTC> btw, dutch station setÂŽs graphics license are a bit weird, they are mbÂŽs original creation, but modified by Purno to look Dutch
15:58:06  <alluke> graphics by lifeblood and oz
15:58:54  <frosch123> alluke: well, then better don't touch either of those sets
15:59:30  <frosch123> dutch not having any licence at all, and canadian for sure non-free
16:00:29  <XeryusTC> for dutch you better ask on the forums, youÂŽve got my permission to mess with the code, if you dare ;)
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16:11:34  <alluke> ill post the graphics and ask
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17:45:57  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25575 /trunk/src/lang (8 files) (2013-07-07 17:45:42 UTC)
17:45:58  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:59  <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 1 changes by siu238X
17:46:00  <DorpsGek> croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
17:46:01  <DorpsGek> english_AU - 2 changes by mrtux
17:46:02  <DorpsGek> japanese - 32 changes by guppy
17:46:03  <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 38 changes by cuthbert
17:46:04  <DorpsGek> slovak - 1 changes by Milsa
17:46:05  <DorpsGek> tamil - 15 changes by aswn
17:46:06  <DorpsGek> turkish - 29 changes by emremeydan
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19:04:44  <andythenorth> FIRS: station names from nearby industry
19:04:46  <andythenorth> good or bad?
19:05:03  * andythenorth has to fix missing ones or remove more.  Wants opinion.
19:05:24  <alluke> good
19:05:36  <alluke> btw
19:05:51  <alluke> theres error in firs finnish translation
19:06:09  <alluke> lumber yard and sawmill have same names
19:06:20  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause ¿ ^^^ I trust your opinion, even if I don't always agree
19:06:27  <andythenorth> alluke: fix it?
19:06:35  <Alberth> andythenorth: seems somewhat useful to me
19:06:40  <alluke> okay
19:06:44  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/changes/lang/finnish.lng
19:06:48  <alluke> ty
19:07:27  <andythenorth> also http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/translations/
19:08:07  <andythenorth> there are 45 missing strings and 38 outdated for Finnish
19:08:53  <Alberth> and at least 1 wrong translation :p
19:10:16  <alluke> btw
19:10:31  <alluke> why are À and ö converted to ä and ö ?
19:10:54  <frosch123> select utf-8 encoding in your browser
19:11:36  <frosch123> "menu->view->character encoding->unicode utf-8" for me
19:11:45  <Alberth> and please also in your editor
19:12:21  <alluke> ye converted it to utf
19:12:47  <Alberth> huh?  it was already utf-8 :)
19:14:10  <alluke> not here
19:14:56  <frosch123> nah, what albert meant is: the file was already utf-8, and you did not convert it, but you changed the interpretation of the file on your side
19:15:20  <frosch123> basically you switched your os from dos 1990 compatibility to a year 2000 (?) standard
19:17:42  <frosch123> oh, actually unicode is way older
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19:19:00  <andythenorth> does anybody care about cargo payment rates?
19:19:10  <andythenorth> before I spend too long obsessing about them :P
19:19:56  <Adson102> I've opened OpenTTD on android 4.0 tablet... and i have question, is there any possiblity to open cheat window without using ctrl alt c? Cuz i dont have this buttons ! XD
19:20:05  <frosch123> impressive, utf-8 is from 1993
19:20:35  <frosch123> so even more hillarious how certain os still default to 8 bit latin-x encodings
19:21:00  <glx> frosch123: don't you mean 1250 ?
19:21:15  <frosch123> true :)
19:21:32  <Alberth> alluke: if you really converted the file, you would now have a broken file (as in doubly encoded)
19:21:50  <alluke> what?
19:21:55  <ntoskrnl> MOJIBAKE
19:21:56  <alluke> i saved it as utf
19:22:08  <alluke> replaced old one
19:22:22  <glx> it was already utf8
19:23:02  <Alberth> alluke: probably a good step, you don't want to save an utf-8 file under another encoding
19:23:09  <glx> so utf8 opened as latin1 then saved as utf8 is totally broken
19:28:38  <alluke> must i add the missing strings to the file manually
19:33:10  <Adson102> Can i open cheat window using a command ?
19:33:32  <andythenorth> weight and capacity multiplier of coffee cargo?  1.0 for both?
19:34:05  <andythenorth> coffee is pretty light
19:34:25  <andythenorth> then there's the whole volume / weight / units shenanigan :P
19:34:29  * andythenorth needs a collaborator
19:34:43  <frosch123> what kind of coffee?
19:34:56  <glx> Adson102: we don't support the mobile version
19:34:57  <andythenorth> coffee beans, unit is sacks
19:35:03  <frosch123> still green, or already "baked"?
19:35:12  <andythenorth> hmm
19:35:21  <andythenorth> green probably
19:35:54  <frosch123> use something between grain and fruit?
19:36:03  <Adson102> Thx ;D so i must play fair o/
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19:36:08  <frosch123> i would think coffee is lighter than grain
19:36:11  <frosch123> but heavier than fruit
19:36:22  <andythenorth> ho
19:36:39  <andythenorth> grain + fruit both have weight 1 and cap. multiplier 1
19:36:40  <andythenorth> :o
19:36:52  <frosch123> easy pick then :p
19:36:57  <andythenorth> seems so :)
19:37:05  <andythenorth> inertia
19:37:07  <andythenorth> is easier
19:37:54  <alluke> when will firs get nicer oil refinery and aore mine graphics?
19:37:57  <andythenorth> why does rubber set liquid class only?
19:38:06  <frosch123> alluke: wrong question
19:38:56  <frosch123> andythenorth: because packaged cargo is boring to transport
19:41:20  <andythenorth> good answer
19:41:25  <andythenorth> I doubt it's the actual cause :)
19:41:26  <andythenorth> but nvm
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20:04:33  <andythenorth> I think I'll leave cap and weight at 1 :P
20:06:32  <frosch123> oh wait, it was "bags" right?
20:06:38  <frosch123> then weight should be less :)
20:07:18  <andythenorth> sacks
20:07:23  <andythenorth> slight difference
20:07:39  <andythenorth> ;)
20:08:13  <frosch123> doesn't ttd also use bags for mail, instead of sacks?
20:08:45  <andythenorth> yes
20:08:53  <andythenorth> iirc
20:09:00  <frosch123> sounds like timber and lumber to me :p
20:09:08  <andythenorth> coffee bag: http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20093/China_Coffee_Bag2009361116388.jpg
20:09:52  <andythenorth> coffee sacks: http://nbfy.com/jj/files/coffee_sacks_250.JPG
20:09:56  <andythenorth> :)
20:10:00  <andythenorth> potato / potato
20:10:39  <andythenorth> herp, now I need to set town effects
20:10:45  <andythenorth> sugar: none
20:10:47  <andythenorth> rubber: none
20:10:50  <andythenorth> diamonds: none
20:10:55  <andythenorth> copper ore: none
20:10:59  <andythenorth> coffee: ?
20:11:22  <frosch123> goods?
20:11:38  <frosch123> actually, goods is a silly town effect
20:11:42  <frosch123> no real town effect
20:12:09  <andythenorth> all town effects are a bit zilly imo
20:12:14  <andythenorth> still, we are where we are :)
20:13:17  <andythenorth> frosch123: would you remove TE from goods? o_O
20:13:42  <frosch123> te is abused for 3 different purposes
20:14:11  <frosch123> pax/mail te affects what is shown in town gui statistics (no gameplay effect at all)
20:14:21  <frosch123> water/food is actual gameplay
20:14:30  <frosch123> goods affects subsidy generation
20:14:49  <frosch123> i think the goods thingie is most likely to be dropped at some point, if it actually isn't already
20:15:01  <frosch123> i recall terkhen doing stuff around there
20:15:12  <andythenorth> I didn't know goods affected subsidies
20:15:19  <andythenorth> and I have been playing for....some time :)
20:15:31  <frosch123> andythenorth: never mind, it was already fixed
20:15:42  <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Cargos#Substitute_type_and_multiplier_for_town_growth_.2818.2C_19.29 <- says ottd 0.6-1.1
20:16:13  <andythenorth> so FIRS sets TE water for cargo Goods
20:16:19  <andythenorth> which is pleasing :)
20:16:19  <frosch123> so, goods effect is basically non existent
20:17:15  <Wolf01> good night
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20:17:39  <andythenorth> ho
20:17:44  <andythenorth> there are two properties for colour :)
20:17:58  <andythenorth> so station list and cargo chains and payment chart can diverge
20:18:08  <andythenorth> what larks :)
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20:36:42  <frosch123> night
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21:09:44  <andythenorth> hmm
21:10:00  <andythenorth> changelogs in markdown?
21:10:46  <andythenorth> they're not far off already http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/changelog.txt
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21:49:40  <alluke> why did ai sell its profitable trucks
21:49:59  <Zuu> because some condition told it to sell them
21:50:17  <Zuu> Eg. it may have detected a possible congestion
21:50:51  <alluke> i buit a highway for its vehicles
21:50:55  <alluke> and renewed them
21:51:22  <Zuu> But to get a better answer, you need to tell us which AI you use and probably ask the author of it along with a savegame.
21:51:44  <alluke> admiralai
21:51:52  <alluke> and no, i wont bother him with this crap
21:53:33  <__ln__> perhaps the ai hired Elop as the ceo
21:54:39  <alluke> :P
21:55:19  <alluke> sucks that you cant change ai settings ni-game
21:55:23  <alluke> or wait
21:56:08  <alluke> lets hope ai_developer_tools = true works
21:56:52  <Zuu> alluke: You can change AI settings in game.
21:57:06  <Zuu> Open the AI debug window
21:57:12  <alluke> no, they were all greyed out
21:57:21  <Zuu> Not the AI settings
21:57:35  <Zuu> Use the '?' menu to the far right in the game
21:57:41  <alluke> both were greyed out
21:58:02  <Zuu> In the AI debug window?
21:58:05  <alluke> yep
21:58:14  <Zuu> Did you first click on the AI "tab"?
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21:58:28  <Zuu> (Those button that has the company colour)
21:58:29  <alluke> hmm
21:58:32  <alluke> they still are
21:58:52  <alluke> now
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21:59:21  <alluke> choochoo works
22:00:31  <alluke> the rest dont
22:00:49  <Zuu> Note that AIs and GSs can per setting set a flag if the setting can be changed in-game.
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22:01:20  <alluke> yeah
22:01:24  <alluke> i guess its that
22:02:16  <Zuu> In trunk, I "fixed" that GS settings can be opened in-game via the normal settings window, however after that I noticed that AI settings can't be viewed in-game via the settings window. So its somewhat on my list to also fix the AIs so that you don't need to find the AI debug window to change settings of an AI when the developers has told OpenTTD that settings _can_ be changed.
22:04:09  <Zuu> IIRC, the default is that a setting cannot be changed in-game. For my AIs/GSs, I have enabled that for 99% of my settings. The only case when I haven't is when there is a real reason to dissalow it.
22:05:20  <Zuu> But if the author of other AIs don't see the point of allowing users to change settings, then it will be disabled.
22:05:26  <alluke> which ais are yours?
22:05:49  <Zuu> CluelessPlus, PAXLink, IdleMore and TownCars
22:06:02  <Zuu> And Tutorial AI
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22:11:20  <Zuu> Aditionally, many AIs use SuperLib which is a library with a common base that I use for most of my AIs/GSs. It is a quite fat library with everything from simple helpers up to building a bus stop in a town. (but of course misses a lot of things others may want because they want to do something else than what I did)
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22:32:45  <alluke> zuu you must have had fun while writing cluelessplus
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22:33:24  <Zuu> yes, otherwise I wouldn't have released almost 30 versions of it :-)
22:33:59  <alluke> those debug texts.....
22:34:23  <Zuu> Hmm, anything that stands out?
22:34:42  <Zuu> Other than it calling everything a 'bus' even if it is an aircraft or a truck?
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22:36:11  <alluke> "the ai is so happy  with the new hq that it cant think about anything else for a while.."
22:36:38  <Zuu> Ah.. that string is printed if you have the 'slow AI' setting enabled in its settings.
22:37:17  <Zuu> It adds some artificial delays after certain actions. Most noticable while building road. The HQ also has a delay and that debug message :-)
22:37:49  <alluke> whats with the station naming
22:37:59  <alluke> theyre senseless
22:37:59  <Zuu> It stores data in the station names
22:38:02  <alluke> rofl
22:38:09  <alluke> cant it be stored somewhere else
22:38:18  <Zuu> Not as robust as in the station names
22:39:02  <Zuu> CluelessPlus do not store anything in the save game other than the data it store in station and vehicle names. This way, if the AI crashes, I can save the game and reload from that point.
22:39:02  *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:39:39  <Zuu> There doesn't need to be any special recover in that case, just normal save/load.
22:41:20  <Zuu> Btw, the smiley at the end of the station name is not data - only some random letters to make the name unique :-)
22:43:46  <alluke> why not stations default name?
22:45:03  <Zuu> Station names are limited to 31 chars. The default name wouldn't always fit. Also, I'm quite unsure if the AI can get the default string in a such way that it can combine it with another string and set that as station sign.
22:45:17  <Zuu> Also, I find the smiley solution more fun.
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