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Log for #openttd on 8th July 2013:
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06:37:21  <planetmaker> good morning
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06:51:38  * andythenorth is puzzled by default TTD station name handling
06:51:58  <andythenorth> I thought it used '...Farm' and '...Wells', but seems not
06:56:24  <scshunt> no, that's a GRF
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07:05:36  <Supercheese> surely default TTD had "Wells"
07:05:41  <Supercheese> and "Woods"
07:05:50  <Supercheese> and "Mines"
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07:28:42  <andythenorth> it has Woods and Mines
07:28:49  <andythenorth> I couldn't trigger Wells
07:29:00  <andythenorth> but the naming is random, so maybe if I tried long enough....
07:34:21  <andythenorth> code would know, if I opened it :P
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08:23:04  <Eddi|zuHause> the naming is not random
08:23:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it takes the first name whose condition appplies
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08:32:14  <planetmaker> and which is not yet taken
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08:47:31  <dihedral> hello
08:48:58  <SamanthaD> question... what ever happened to development on cargodest? I'm looking at the downloads and the latest Debian package seems to be for Lenny?!
08:49:15  <SamanthaD> and it says that it's not been updated since '08
08:49:39  <Zuu> If you want cargodest, try yacd
08:49:50  <Zuu> If cargodist is enough, you can play trunk
08:50:09  <SamanthaD> thanks, Zuu
08:50:43  <Zuu> cargodist do not enforce/request destinations not available in your network, which is the main difference to yacd/cargodest.
08:51:21  <SamanthaD> I'm going to check out yacd
08:51:36  <SamanthaD> I'm guessing cargodest development stalled for some reason and yacd came along to replace it?
09:08:56  <SamanthaD> Zuu: I'm playing with Cargodist now. Thanks for the tip. I'm having fun already!
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09:39:49  <Jomann> jo
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13:08:04  <Belugas> hello
13:45:04  <Jomann> hey
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16:12:23  <andythenorth> 'Plodpool Mines' or 'Plodpool Bauxite Mine' ?
16:12:25  <andythenorth> (etc)
16:21:59  <peter1139> Mines
16:25:20  <planetmaker> o/ andythenorth
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17:10:21  <andythenorth> would it be interesting if I could provide n station name strings instead of 1?
17:10:32  <andythenorth> only first station gets the name
17:10:35  <andythenorth> and there's no variety
17:10:38  <andythenorth> bit meh
17:10:45  <andythenorth> default game varies them more
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17:13:39  <Eddi|zuHause> that is probably a misperception
17:14:41  <frosch123> most definitely :)
17:14:47  <frosch123> default game does not vary at all
17:26:06  <andythenorth> it doesn't? o_O
17:26:45  <andythenorth> am I about to be schooled?
17:27:33  <planetmaker> there's a small list of default names which sequentially is checked for applicability
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17:29:57  <andythenorth> so not random
17:30:33  <planetmaker> not a single bit
17:31:01  <planetmaker> but it might seem more random. NewGRF names are the first thing to check
17:31:19  <planetmaker> so if it applies, it is taken. Only then the other default names come into play. In their usual sequence
17:31:40  <planetmaker> and no-one who doesn't read the code knows their order and condtions ;-)
17:32:23  <andythenorth> hmm
17:32:34  <andythenorth> additonal variety from newgrf is a silly idea then
17:34:07  <planetmaker> not necessarily. It could still provide more than one name. For stations around them. Or picking one of them in random. Still makes sense
17:34:42  <andythenorth> how is a list returned by a cb?  I can't remember enough nfo :P
17:34:50  <andythenorth> seems like we'd have to pack the text stack?
17:36:31  <andythenorth> biab
17:45:21  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25576 /trunk/src/lang (dutch.txt japanese.txt) (2013-07-08 17:45:13 UTC)
17:45:22  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> dutch - 43 changes by habell
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> japanese - 420 changes by guppy
17:54:10  <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess a newgrf should not add too much variety there
17:54:34  <frosch123> if you give every industry a specific unique station name, then every station will be named after an industry
17:54:37  <frosch123> which ilkely looks silly
17:55:17  <frosch123> if you instead provide all mines with "mine", all quarries etc with "pond", ...
17:55:31  <frosch123> only one station is names after the industry, while most are not
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17:59:56  <Wolf01> evenink
18:01:22  *** frosch123 is now known as Alberth
18:01:25  <Alberth> o/
18:01:27  *** Alberth is now known as frosch123
18:08:58  <planetmaker> :D
18:10:37  <frosch123> sometimes you have to fill in for someone missing
18:23:26  <Wolf01> :D
18:37:53  <Wolf01> http://collegedegreesearch.net/10-most-bizarre-skycraper-designs-ever-realized/ new buildings for TT (one of them it's already there, guess which one=
18:37:56  <Wolf01> )
18:44:12  <frosch123> it's getting more dirty
18:44:16  <frosch123> it needs a washing
18:51:01  <andythenorth> frosch123: so are you in favour of '...Mines' or '...Bauxite Mine' ? :)
18:51:09  <andythenorth> FIRS currently does the second, but somehow it bugs me
18:51:30  <planetmaker> andythenorth, 'mine' is a default name already. No need to supply it (too)
18:52:07  <planetmaker> In order to distinguish it, it would need to be 'Bauxite Mine' or similar
18:52:37  <andythenorth> so no change for FIRS industries that already have a station name
18:52:39  <planetmaker> likely it would be no error to also supply 'Mine', but it probably has the potential to create then two identically-named stations
18:52:44  <andythenorth> and add more in the same pattern...
18:52:49  <frosch123> andythenorth: i am against "bauxite mine", it's too specific
18:53:00  <planetmaker> frosch123, for a specific industry?
18:53:23  <planetmaker> there are stations like "VW, gate 3"
18:53:29  <andythenorth> I find it weird
18:53:46  <frosch123> a name should not be specific to a single industry
18:53:48  <andythenorth> station name shouldn't exactly equal industry name
18:53:53  <frosch123> instead multiple similar types should share the same name
18:54:03  <planetmaker> why?
18:54:08  <frosch123> like quary pit, dreding site, was there a third one?
18:54:18  <andythenorth> as much as anything, the station is often near multiple industries, and the name is simply wrong
18:54:20  <frosch123> planetmaker: it adds to the variety
18:54:27  <andythenorth> the more specific it is, the more silly the wrong is
18:54:37  <planetmaker> in the sense that newgrf names are not used that often? That, yes
18:54:52  <andythenorth> frosch123: all farms get '...Farm' ?
18:54:58  <andythenorth> all plantations '...Plantation' ?
18:55:08  <frosch123> something like that, yes :)
18:55:49  <frosch123> hmm, tt-foundry is only down for me :(
18:55:59  <andythenorth> no, down for all
18:56:07  <andythenorth> it's deprecated anyway
18:56:11  <andythenorth> use docs on bundles
18:56:16  <frosch123> oj
18:56:20  <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs
18:57:00  <frosch123> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs <- still links tt-foundry
18:57:19  <planetmaker> settings -> description allows to change it
18:58:02  <andythenorth> I don't want to overthink this :)
18:58:06  <frosch123> andythenorth: you could also add some fake names
18:58:16  <andythenorth> in some respect, I would happily delegate this to whoever has commit rights :P
18:58:26  <andythenorth> the station names have always been a bit 'meh' for me
18:58:33  <andythenorth> and I have to field complaints about them :)
18:58:34  <frosch123> like "store" -> "precinct"
18:58:45  <andythenorth> frosch123: good idea
18:59:01  <andythenorth> hmm
18:59:04  * andythenorth ponders evil
18:59:13  <andythenorth> use the wrong town name, deliberately :P
18:59:35  <andythenorth> this all relates to https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6143
18:59:40  <andythenorth> which supercheese raised
19:00:00  <frosch123> metal workshop -> "industiral area" or similar
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19:01:06  <andythenorth> planetmaker: want to fix this?  I don't mind if you carry on with the current method
19:01:17  <frosch123> anyway, i guess there are better slang names for typical stations in certain town areas
19:01:34  <frosch123> in german i would suggest to use "Zeche" for some mines
19:01:40  <planetmaker> andythenorth, you mean station names?
19:01:50  <planetmaker> I fear I totally lost knowledge how FIRS code works
19:02:18  <frosch123> smithy forge -> "horse market"
19:02:38  <frosch123> generally: resusing the industrry name for the station is boring
19:02:46  <frosch123> it should be a related but different term
19:03:09  <andythenorth> I am +0.5 to that
19:03:16  <andythenorth> I like it, but thinking of names is hard :)
19:03:20  <andythenorth> and translating them too :)
19:03:25  <andythenorth> the second is not my problem :P
19:03:28  <planetmaker> I can try come up with a list of names
19:04:16  <andythenorth> planetmaker: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/industries/arable_farm.py
19:04:17  <andythenorth> l39
19:05:05  <andythenorth> or l29 here: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/industries/steel_mill.py
19:05:15  <andythenorth> the steel mill uses 'Mills' rather than 'Steel Mill'
19:05:24  <planetmaker> I see. Sounds feasible
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19:07:30  * planetmaker visits docs to get an industry overview :D
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19:13:02  <planetmaker> andythenorth, what's the purpose of "fibre crop farm location checks disabled" being issued upon compilation of FIRS?
19:14:04  <andythenorth> reminder to me
19:14:17  <andythenorth> sometimes I need a fast compile
19:14:24  <andythenorth> which I can do with TEST_INDUSTRY=foo thing
19:14:32  <andythenorth> but I have to disable location checks for that to work
19:14:40  <andythenorth> so I leave a breadcrumb
19:14:42  <andythenorth> I should fix it :P
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19:20:03  <frosch123>  http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2375/ <- planetmaker: suggestion for german industry names
19:20:11  <frosch123> sometimes mislabeled on purpose :)
19:20:21  <andythenorth> frosch123: that will never fly with our community :)
19:20:31  <andythenorth> "No, it must be logical and realistic" :)
19:20:45  <andythenorth> "What is this 'imagination' you speak of?"
19:21:00  <frosch123> no, it should be entertaining
19:21:01  <andythenorth> "I have heard of a strange concept: humour.  Explain please"
19:21:14  <frosch123> people should wonder whether it is random or intentional
19:21:30  <frosch123> most users probably have no idea that industries can supply station names
19:21:50  <andythenorth> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHkKJfcBXcw
19:21:53  <frosch123> that's why the gamemechanics page on the wiki is the most fun-breaking site of all
19:22:10  <frosch123> it would be way more interesting if that site would not be accurate, but partly misleading
19:22:25  <frosch123> games are for exploring and trying stuff
19:22:38  <andythenorth> +1
19:22:47  <andythenorth> I have kept FIRS docs minimal
19:22:51  <andythenorth> no intro dates
19:22:59  <andythenorth> no 'please play it like this'
19:23:03  <andythenorth> etc
19:23:31  <andythenorth> mostly just lists of stuff that it's boring to hunt for in the game
19:23:50  <andythenorth> hmm
19:23:52  <andythenorth> Kraftwerk
19:24:11  <andythenorth> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQz-CZvkY8k
19:24:31  <planetmaker> frosch123, you'd never find a station "Sandbank". Rather you call it simply "Sand"
19:24:53  <andythenorth> Sandbank would be good for UK
19:24:54  <planetmaker> in the sense of "Sand" as a transient island rather than sand
19:25:08  <andythenorth> lots of fishing is on ...Banks
19:25:17  <andythenorth> dredging too
19:25:33  <planetmaker> but I like the list :-)
19:26:02  <frosch123> planetmaker: yes, that's one of those mislabeling
19:26:15  <frosch123> you would never consider a dredging site a station
19:26:34  <frosch123> but the localtion where the dredging site is, might have a local naming
19:26:39  <andythenorth> +1
19:26:44  <andythenorth> 'shallows'
19:26:46  <andythenorth> 'deeps'
19:26:48  <andythenorth> 'banks'
19:26:50  <andythenorth> 'flats'
19:26:59  <planetmaker> that would also be "Sand". No name is "Sandbank" in the Wattenmeer
19:27:08  <andythenorth> 'bay'
19:27:08  <frosch123> also fine :)
19:27:40  <frosch123> my favourite is still the first one :p "aluminum plant" -> "power plant" :p
19:27:51  <planetmaker> I ponder replacing "auf dem Acker" by "three Oaks" or so
19:28:06  <andythenorth> is that for forest?
19:28:07  <planetmaker> hehe, yes, that's good :-)
19:28:12  <planetmaker> andythenorth, for farms
19:28:22  <frosch123> andythenorth: farm
19:28:34  <andythenorth> 'fields'
19:28:46  <andythenorth> 'manor'
19:28:49  <andythenorth> 'estate'
19:28:55  <planetmaker> I can't imagine a bus stop being called "fields" or so. Manor... yes, estate,...
19:29:22  <planetmaker> from my school bus route, there was stations in the middle of nowhere. They were like "three oaks" and alike
19:29:27  <planetmaker> "Willow road"
19:29:29  <planetmaker> etc
19:29:37  <andythenorth> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaround/maps/buses/tfl-bus-map/text/stopinfo.aspx?s=11406&r=C2
19:29:51  <andythenorth> in soviet google, everything has a counter example
19:29:57  <andythenorth> :)
19:30:13  <planetmaker> :-)
19:30:27  <Rubidium> andythenorth: but it isn't called <location> Fields, it's just called <location>
19:30:50  <andythenorth> point
19:32:40  <frosch123> planetmaker: andythenorth: anyway, most of those names are not directly translatable. e.g. "kruppstraße" and "dieselstraße" are faily common in industrial areas here, but likely not outside germany :) you have to translate using another national industrial guy
19:32:58  <planetmaker> yeah, I see :-)
19:33:13  <planetmaker> but it's a very good start, that list, frosch123 :-)
19:34:53  <andythenorth> the default game names - does it actually check for height when setting 'Heights'? o_O
19:35:02  <frosch123> yes
19:35:07  <frosch123> height relative to town sign
19:35:39  <andythenorth> neat
19:37:47  <frosch123> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/768f065ac1a9/src/station_cmd.cpp#l227
19:38:49  * planetmaker discovers new English words
19:39:08  <planetmaker> "delf" anyone?
19:39:15  <frosch123> special rules for airports, woods (trees, not forest industry), mine, central, lake, height, north/south/west/east
19:39:58  <frosch123> planetmaker: are you trying to translate the list to english? :)
19:40:32  <andythenorth> delf is new to me
19:40:35  <andythenorth> sounds dutch
19:41:05  <planetmaker> frosch123, the sectioning makes sense to me
19:41:26  <frosch123> hmm?
19:41:28  <planetmaker> dutch town uses an additional 't'.
19:41:52  <planetmaker> section or assignment of names to industries as grouped by you
19:42:01  <frosch123> ah :)
19:42:20  <planetmaker> but yes, then I need to find some sensible names for it in English
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19:42:32  <planetmaker> andythenorth, 'delf' is given as british english... for 'mine' :D
19:42:34  <planetmaker> obviously not
19:42:39  <frosch123> i would try to assign that task to a native speaker :)
19:42:44  <andythenorth> it seems to be a rare use
19:42:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25577 trunk/src/script/api/script_list.hpp (2013-07-08 19:42:39 UTC)
19:42:46  <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish [FS#5638] (r20562): [Script] Documentation implied that XXList::AddItem has a default for value if it isn't filled in.
19:43:07  <planetmaker> frosch123, but it needs ... some initial names. at least
19:44:34  <Rubidium> I think we are now well overshot for 6400h
19:44:57  <frosch123> planetmaker: i wondered about a term for the food processing section
19:45:01  <frosch123> maybe "MÃŒhle" or so
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19:45:21  <frosch123> though "Pferdemarkt" is also nice for the stockyard :p
19:45:39  <Rubidium> Schweinenmarkt
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19:47:09  <frosch123> haaimarkt
19:49:46  <planetmaker> yeah, I had "Alte MÃŒhle" or so in my mind for mill, food processing and maybe some inner-town small stuff, too
19:50:02  <planetmaker> Pferdemarkt is awesome
19:52:47  <andythenorth> I would consider leaving names off the town industries
19:52:51  <andythenorth> they seem to annoy players
19:53:48  <planetmaker> o.m.g. There are books... dedicated to street names. Only street names
19:53:54  <frosch123> i don't think so, you just have to give them town-like station names
19:54:07  <planetmaker> ^ yes, I think so, too
19:54:14  <frosch123> planetmaker: there are books only for phone numbers
19:54:21  <planetmaker> :-)
19:54:46  <frosch123> i assume you didn't mean a "Straßenverzeichnis"
19:54:49  <planetmaker> I want a statistics on the probability of street names in Britain ;-)
19:55:02  <planetmaker> but found things like http://www.fun-with-words.com/review_street_names_england.html
20:03:55  <frosch123> planetmaker: oh, btw. not all books about names are useful
20:04:54  <frosch123> i for once looked up the surname "Aulbach", and the book said "quite common name around Aschaffenburg"... yeah, exactly! that's why i am looking it up :p
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20:05:34  * andythenorth is about to break FIRS compiles :P
20:05:43  <planetmaker> haha, frosch123 :-)
20:06:27  <andythenorth> can anyone stick python markdown on devzone bundle server?
20:06:30  <andythenorth> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Markdown
20:10:34  <frosch123> http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/index.text <- someone is using tab with 4
20:11:06  <frosch123> planetmaker: oh, btw. i wanted to ask
20:11:16  <frosch123> what database does devzone's redmine use?
20:11:21  <frosch123> do you also use mysql?
20:11:41  <planetmaker> yes
20:11:44  <planetmaker> afaik
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20:11:54  <frosch123> ok, i should switch my test server then :p
20:11:57  <planetmaker> and... mines will have station names 'Tanner road' :D
20:12:06  <planetmaker> (Gerberstraße)
20:12:13  <frosch123> i started with postgresql without any considertation
20:12:25  <frosch123> and since then i switched every thing from mysql to postgres :ÃŒp
20:12:33  <frosch123> eints, bananas, redmine ... :p
20:12:36  <planetmaker> :-P
20:14:08  <planetmaker> andythenorth, industry do not need that property defined, right?
20:14:35  <andythenorth> planetmaker: which prop?  Station name?
20:17:17  <frosch123> night
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20:18:16  <alluke> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=34e_1373120565 cant help laughing
20:23:52  <planetmaker> yes, station name, andythenorth
20:23:58  <andythenorth> optional prop
20:24:07  <planetmaker> but seems like it's not needed... found several instances where it's not declared yet
20:24:20  <andythenorth> is there some file that specifies the bundle server config per project?
20:24:27  <andythenorth> I recall Ammler explaining it to me more than once
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20:24:55  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> if you instead provide all mines with "mine", all quarries etc with "pond", ... <-- mind you that all industried must return the same "mines" string-ID, not different strings which all contain "mines". or you'll have 10 stations named "mines" in the same city
20:25:24  <andythenorth> yup
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20:41:57  <planetmaker> andythenorth, FIRS is broken :-)
20:42:11  <andythenorth> I know :)
20:42:14  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can modify many things in the .devzone directory
20:44:49  <Eddi|zuHause> for example, CETS uses a customized nml.spec file, to change some of the processing options
20:45:18  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: looking now
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21:27:07  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:30:30  <andythenorth> bye
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23:07:05  <Midnightmyth_> hmm just installed openttd on a win8 machine
23:07:10  <Midnightmyth_> text is wayyy to small
23:07:13  <Midnightmyth_> any hints?
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23:31:30  <Midnightmyth_> anyone know what the default font is?
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23:56:10  <alluke> no idea
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