Log for #openttd on 21st July 2013:
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06:50:18  <Terkhen> hello
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06:54:34  <krinn>  hello
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07:18:09  <V453000> can GS and newGRFs interact in any way? e.g. unlocking certain railtypes according to number of trains the company has?
07:18:33  <V453000> guess not eh :)
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07:20:16  <Rubidium> V453000: if you're asking for desyncs, then you should do that trickery ;)
07:26:54  <V453000> yay :D
07:27:13  <V453000> nutjobs approve
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07:31:00  <krinn> V453000, actually there's no interraction with GS and newGRF, but as GS could with Company (note i don't test with human company), this mean GS cannot stop someone building a certain railtype, but could remove them using the company owner that build them
07:31:53  <krinn> it might be close enough of what you expect
07:32:41  <planetmaker> <god mode>I told you not to play with wetrails! I told you! See, now I take all those toys again for you. and it only cost you! See what you imposed on yourself!</god mode> :D
07:32:43  <planetmaker> good morning
07:33:09  <krinn> morning
07:33:40  <krinn> planetmaker, for those kind of job i don't think the company loose many if GS take care of removing rails and not destroying tile holding them
07:34:49  <planetmaker> it's not for free. like 50% or so?
07:35:57  <krinn> hehe i suppose the GS warn about the rules, now pay the prize of your try
07:37:08  <planetmaker> like that :-) I think that might actually work
07:37:15  <planetmaker> I wonder how annyoing it would be :D
07:37:35  <planetmaker> and imagine that with PURR. No, you must not build the red rail!. Violet is for you
07:37:53  <krinn> can't do, dunno what is PURR :)
07:38:13  <planetmaker> V's newest creation: railtypes for the sake of different colours ;-)
07:38:27  <V453000> :D
07:38:30  <krinn> :)
07:38:57  <V453000> what idea I had is to sort rail colours by rank of badassitude
07:39:11  <planetmaker> lol
07:39:11  <krinn> but it could be neat with some tweak rules, as : no more diesel engine, all diesel goes to depot and get sold....
07:39:20  <V453000> LOL
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07:52:08  <Eddi|zuHause> what might be managable is an override of the prototype/availability bitmasks
07:53:26  <Eddi|zuHause> so GS seizes control oveer which company gets which prototype, and after the prototype phase, which company gets it for general availability. the game is prepared to handle that through a bitmask, only there is currently no way to affect that
07:54:09  <planetmaker> exposing that to GS is a very valid request I think. Which could open interesting gameplay
07:56:01  <V453000> :)
07:56:16  <V453000> indeed that could open very interesting things
07:56:25  <V453000> OpenTTDRPG? :D
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07:56:50  <Eddi|zuHause> OpenTTDota :p
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08:01:11  <Zuu> krinn: The reason why I did put SCPClient_ first was that soon there could also be an SCPClient_<other GS>.
08:01:56  <Zuu> And if someone wants to maintain it, a master SCPClient that supports all GSes with SCP interface.
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08:05:29  <Alberth> moin
08:07:09  <planetmaker> hm... is there a way for OpenTTD to check whether a base set is complete in terms of sprites before it loads it?
08:09:43  <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean?
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08:10:51  <Eddi|zuHause> it's certainly not possible to check all callback paths whether they return a valid real sprite
08:11:30  <Rubidium> planetmaker: no, it needs to (at least fake) load it
08:12:03  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, base set. misread that
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08:19:03  <Wolf01> moin
08:25:25  <planetmaker> background: I just renamed my openttd.cfg a to obtain a virgin openttd.cfg and of course openttd loaded with 1/3 chance zBase - the only one which misses (GUI) sprites
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08:37:10  <krinn> Zuu, oh i see now, you deep think about everything :)
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09:26:45  <NGC3982> Morning.
09:27:33  <NGC3982> I do not know enough about networking to have a clear point on this.
09:28:34  <NGC3982> But for some reason, when connecting to a local OpenTTD server using a 5GHz wifi connection, loading the map demands at least a minute of loading.
09:28:51  <NGC3982> I guess there is really no way that is game related?
09:29:52  <NGC3982> Using a 2,4GHz connection is no problem at all, and work with the default max_join_time.
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09:32:52  <Eddi|zuHause> interference? package collision?
09:33:16  <Eddi|zuHause> no, that really can't have anything to do with the game itself
09:33:41  <NGC3982> In that case, it's no use trying to fix it.
09:34:05  <Alberth> fixing would imply getting a better connection :)
09:34:12  <NGC3982> Locally, yeah.
09:34:43  <Alberth> that would be the most beneficial change indeed
09:35:08  <krinn> if the signal is that bad, it's better having a slower speed to avoid packet lost
09:37:08  <Zuu> also 5 GHz is more sensitive to obstacles than 2.4 GHz.
09:37:38  <NGC3982> The thing is, 5GHz works better with (almost) everything else. That is why i changed it in the first place.
09:38:21  <NGC3982> I'll do some trial and error.
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09:38:49  <krinn> yes, but it's like using a poor cable with 100mb, and change the router to a 1000m/b : the cable remain poor, problem remain
09:39:25  <__ln__> m/b?
09:39:46  <krinn> mib
09:39:49  <Eddi|zuHause> well, there is a feedback effect. usually the TCP server sends out packages as fast as he can, until one is dropped. then it assumes the line connection is full, and slows down accordingly. but with wifi, packages may be dropped for unrelated reasons, so the speed will drop faster than usual
09:40:05  <NGC3982> I see.
09:40:09  <__ln__> no, no, not mib
09:40:18  <Eddi|zuHause> men in black?
09:40:19  <NGC3982> Though, i think i found the reason for my problems.
09:40:30  <NGC3982> The channel in DD-WRT was set to auto
09:40:47  <Rubidium> OpenTTD doesn't do buffer bloat, so it won't fill the complete buffer at the network card so things that should take priority can actually take priority, instead of waiting for seconds in the buffer of your OS
09:40:50  <NGC3982> And has cycled back and forth between 5 and 2.412Ghz
09:41:24  <Rubidium> that makes it kinda susceptible to packet loss
09:41:27  <NGC3982> And using a wifi analyzer, my neighbours are using -only- 2.412 and 5Ghz.
09:41:33  <NGC3982> Rubidium: I see.
09:42:59  <Rubidium> what you can often notice, e.g. with scp, is that it say that the first 2 MiB were uploaded way faster than the network connection and then it has to wait a long time when it's at 100% to have really transfered the whole file
09:43:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't noticed that since i got real internet :p
09:45:43  <krinn> well, scp use compression, so you may just see that too when using it
09:46:13  <Rubidium> krinn: if you pass -C
09:46:17  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't really have anything to do with it
09:46:47  <Rubidium> which I generally don't since compression won't help with already (better) compressed data
09:48:03  <krinn> but your compressed data aren't sent as-is but as hash, and compressing the hash (that is not aiming at compression of datas but encryption) make it better
09:48:50  <Rubidium> it's definitely not sent over as a hash
09:49:04  <Rubidium> because hashes are, by definition, irreversible
09:49:37  <krinn> yeah play terms...
09:49:46  <Rubidium> if you're talking about block ciphers... even then compression is worthless, unless the block cipher is crap
09:50:39  <Rubidium> and if the block cipher is crap, you shouldn't use it (and crap block ciphers, such as ROR13 or DROR13, are not to be used for ssh connections)
09:51:59  <NGC3982> There we are.
09:52:14  <Rubidium> mostly because the better the cipher, the more random the output will look like
09:52:40  <Rubidium> and the more random input of a compression algorithm is, the worse the compression ratio becomes
10:07:32  <Eddi|zuHause> in general, compression and encryption are conflicting goals
10:07:53  <Rubidium> just compress first, encrypt later
10:08:25  <Rubidium> compression might actually help the encryption as it adds a layer of obfuscation, unless you know it is encrypted as you could then serch for patterns
10:21:07  <TinoDidriksen> SSH compresses before encrypting, naturally.
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10:26:14  <andythenorth> bah
10:26:36  <andythenorth> twice a year I get smacked in the face by 'single-item tuple is not iterable'
10:26:37  <andythenorth> :(
10:27:04  <Alberth> :o
10:27:34  <Alberth> ?
10:28:05  <Alberth>
10:28:22  <andythenorth> yeah, that
10:28:31  <andythenorth> no comma, not iterable :P
10:28:45  <Alberth> oh, no comma, no tuple :)
10:28:47  <andythenorth> I don't mind, I just forget every time
10:29:05  <Alberth> use  tuple()  all the time?  :)
10:30:23  <andythenorth> perhaps :)
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10:36:33  <andythenorth> sensible choice to indicate "never expires" in an int?   -1?  9999?
10:36:48  <andythenorth> the actual value doesn't matter, the templating sorts it out for nml
10:36:53  <andythenorth> this is just for readability
10:37:48  <Eddi|zuHause> textual "infinity" that gets interpreted elsewhere? None?
10:38:00  <andythenorth> None
10:38:02  <andythenorth> of course :)
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10:39:16  <andythenorth> hmm
10:39:25  <andythenorth> None causes something to stumble, has to be an int
10:39:27  <andythenorth> 9000
10:39:32  <andythenorth> at least will do
10:40:03  <Eddi|zuHause> well, have to prepare the code for None...
10:40:17  <andythenorth> well you wrote this line for me :)
10:40:23  <andythenorth>                 sprite_variation_trigger_dates[date] = [counter for counter, (start, end) in enumerate(self.dates_for_graphic_variations) if date in range(start, end)]
10:40:48  <andythenorth> where self.dates_for_graphic_variations is a tuple of tuples in format ((x, y), (a, b)) etc
10:41:06  <andythenorth> if y or b are None it stumbles
10:41:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
10:41:17  <andythenorth> for obvious reasons
10:42:16  <Eddi|zuHause> in that case, "infinity" should be 5000001
10:42:48  <Eddi|zuHause> assuming "date" is a year
10:43:25  <andythenorth> so does that match ottd?
10:43:43  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it loops the year 5000000 over and over
10:46:25  <andythenorth> perfect
10:47:24  <planetmaker> andythenorth, if it is an int.... use 0xFFFF as 'never expires'
10:47:35  <planetmaker> as that's the actual value for 'never expires'
10:48:07  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: this is not about the vehicle lifetime, but about "when do graphics change"
10:48:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. usage in callbacks and stuff
10:48:25  <planetmaker> ah, hm
10:49:27  <andythenorth> the value is never actually used in a switch
10:49:42  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think this line should work with None if you change it to "range(start or 0, end or 5000001)"
10:49:44  <andythenorth> it just tells the build script not to worry, and the build script wants an int there
10:49:54  <Eddi|zuHause> end can never be 0 in that case
10:50:02  <Eddi|zuHause> and 0 and None are equivalent
10:50:40  <Alberth> ugh, boolean magic :(
10:50:46  <andythenorth> neat
10:50:49  <andythenorth> even better :)
10:55:35  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the cleaner variant may be "end if end is not None else 5000001"
10:56:55  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't like this construct because "end" has to be listet twice
10:58:11  <Alberth> def sel(v1, v2): if v1: return v2; else return v2
10:58:23  <Alberth> s/v2/v1/
10:59:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: well that's what "or" does
10:59:21  <Eddi|zuHause> but it doesn't differentiate between 0 and None
10:59:42  <Alberth> if v1 is not None: return v1; else return v2
11:00:12  <Alberth> I just hate boolean magic :)
11:00:29  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not really boolean either :p
11:00:47  <Alberth> that's why it's magic ;)
11:01:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i think hiding such logic inside a function makes it worse
11:01:36  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: do you ever play golf? o_O
11:01:50  <Eddi|zuHause> real golf or code golf? :p
11:02:24  <andythenorth> python gold
11:02:27  <andythenorth> glof *
11:02:37  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yeah,   if a<b: return a; else return b     is much better than   min(a, b)    too
11:02:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: well, that is a builtin function :)
11:03:03  <Alberth> but it hides logic!
11:03:33  <Eddi|zuHause> don't misuse my halfbaked arguments!! :p
11:03:38  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway... food
11:03:43  <Alberth> enjoy :)
11:18:37  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: my "code should be short" attempts are usually laziness-related rather than golf related :)
11:20:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i did actually "win" at golf once before i knew what golf was. in school my computer science teacher used my solution in a test as the primary solution, because it was both shorter and cleaner as his original solution :p
11:22:49  <Eddi|zuHause> the test was something like "write a function that takes a (pascal) string and a width and output the text word-wrapped to the screen
11:28:09  <gynter> Long game anyone?
11:28:21  <gynter> started at 1701, current year is 1757
11:28:26  <gynter> no restart date set
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11:58:54  <V453000>
11:59:17  <V453000> you cant say this isnt awesome :D
11:59:19  <V453000> enimolz
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12:01:57  <Alberth> it makes you wonder why they do that :)
12:01:57  <planetmaker> :-)
12:02:19  <Eddi|zuHause> jump up, wave your arms, and say "i can fly"?
12:02:36  <Alberth> :D
12:04:16  <Xaroth|Work> they forgot an 'import antigravity'
12:05:47  <Alberth> perhaps this is more fun :)
12:18:23  <Zuu> Mabye there should be a {COMPANY_COLUR} that renders a {BLUE} etc. depending on which company colour the given company has.
12:18:39  <planetmaker> nice idea
12:19:15  <planetmaker> you mean as parameter the company ID?
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12:22:47  <frosch123> Alberth: they try to catch birds. they saw diving birds catching a lot of fish, and now they try to reverse the situation - evolution is so cruel :o
12:23:32  <planetmaker> haha :-)
12:29:28  <Alberth> :)
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12:35:03  <Zuu> planetmaker: yeah, using company ID to colour code company name with its company colour. Though I guess at least one company colour will not work on the window background no matter which window you use it on.
12:35:32  <frosch123> Zuu: what window background color do you intend to use? most company colours will be unreadable
12:36:11  <Zuu> frosch123: that was what I just realized :-)
12:36:15  <frosch123> the menu uses a company coloured icon in front of the name, i think we should do that in more places :)
12:36:42  <frosch123> Zuu: sorry, i always type faster than i read :p
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13:04:30  <wakou2> Hi guys, is there anywhere I can D/L some saved games for examples of some nice working stations/crossovers etc? I get horribl confused with signalling, and always get traffic jams etc...:)
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13:05:16  <planetmaker> try http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | | or browse the savegame and screenshot sections of the forums at
13:07:19  <planetmaker> hm, my forum link doesn't show that section... does
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13:18:54  <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25620 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-21 13:18:45 UTC)
13:18:55  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25342): Save/load of story books were broken
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13:32:51  <wakou2> Thanks planetmaker, some food for study there!
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14:52:13  <__ln__>
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14:59:50  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: :p
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15:21:25  <LordAro> hey all
15:22:01  <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25621 trunk/src/story_base.h (2013-07-21 15:21:55 UTC)
15:22:02  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25342): Also delete page elments when their page is removed (so that they don't reappear on a new page later on)
15:22:06  <Zuu> Hello LordAro
15:22:39  <LordAro> hey Zuu
15:24:46  <LordAro> we've seen this, i assume?
15:25:21  <planetmaker> it's a bit pointless...
15:25:30  <planetmaker> hi LordAro :-)
15:25:58  <LordAro> is he right, though?
15:26:01  <LordAro> hi pm :0
15:26:04  <LordAro> *:)
15:26:07  <planetmaker> it's not like OpenTTD only compiles with one compiler :-)
15:26:30  <Eddi|zuHause> s/_([a-z])/g_/g
15:26:34  <planetmaker> possibly not many similarily large projects which compile on that many
15:27:00  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly escaping the ()
15:27:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i always do that the wrong way :p
15:27:16  <planetmaker> :-)
15:28:29  <LordAro> i thought it would be a fairly trivial fix, if it was that necessary :L
15:29:13  <planetmaker> that I do believe, too. But then... if it ain't broke, don't fix :-)
15:30:13  <Alberth> whether or not it's broken depends on the definition of broken :p
15:30:19  <Rubidium> OpenTTD is the *standard* library for running game scripts, so we may use _. Problem solved.
15:30:44  <LordAro> probably - OTTD compiles on many different compilers, and none of them that are vaguely regularly used break it in the way he described
15:30:53  <LordAro> :D
15:31:30  <Alberth> hmm, we may have include openttd in freerct thus, if we are to run game scripts :p
15:32:04  <LordAro> :O
15:32:41  <Alberth> perhaps it's easier to move freerct into openttd? :)
15:33:09  <Alberth> it's not like the scale will get suddenly broken :)
15:33:25  <LordAro> well, we/you have already used '_[a-z]' global variables, so just say we're developing the standard library for some as-yet undetermined script?
15:33:30  <LordAro> :p
15:34:16  <Alberth> If you like a g_prefix better,  feel free to do a s/\<_/g_/
15:35:37  * Alberth afk to construct some dinner
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15:35:56  <V453000> from rails?
15:36:37  <Alberth> nah, steel doesn't taste very good
15:38:21  <LordAro> kinda crunchy
15:43:38  * frosch123 inserts silly untranslateable joke about "junction" also meaning "soft"
15:43:48  <frosch123> +german
15:44:58  <V453000> :DDDD
15:52:58  <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25622 trunk/src/goal_gui.cpp (2013-07-21 15:52:52 UTC)
15:52:59  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Improve goal_gui comments (Alberth)
15:59:13  <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25623 /trunk/src (4 files in 4 dirs) (2013-07-21 15:59:07 UTC)
15:59:14  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5611] (r25296): Progress column width in goal window was not updated when a string changed while the window is open
16:03:50  <__ln__> isn't it that names with underscore and a capital letter are reserved?
16:05:08  <__ln__> and anything with two consecutive underscores. i don't have access to a book right now.
16:13:45  <frosch123> two underscores are only troublesome if they are both at the beginning and at the end
16:14:19  <frosch123> that scenario can only become more troublesome if the middle part represents a mathematical function
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16:26:46  <Zuu> Hmm, I should make SuperLib report StoryBook API as unavilable at <=  r25621.
16:27:16  <frosch123> you check specific revisions? :o
16:27:20  <Zuu> So that NoCarGoal etc. can fall back to the blue windows on those versions.
16:27:55  <Zuu> frosch123: I check both the revision and for the existence of cargodist (so that stable, testing and RCs are not reported as false positives)
16:33:28  <Zuu> Using Story.IsStoryBookAvailable() I can safe guard my usage of GSStoryBook() so that 1.3 users don't evelaute usage of GSStoryBook while new clients will evaluate it and make use of the StoryBook. This way I can target both 1.3 users and trunk with the same code base.
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16:49:23  <Rubidium> Zuu: doesn't it give you the NewGRF version? Then you also know the x.y.z part. Since trunk is 1.4.0.rev, it could be one check
16:51:58  <Zuu> I used the NewGRF version and the information if it is a stable or not as guidance for if I should look at the x.y.z part or the revision number. However, I found out that RCs are not marked as stable yet they need to be addressed used x.y.z as they may have a revision larger than the minimum trunk version.
16:53:01  <Zuu> At the time when I wrote the original function, trunk reported 1.3 which is now fixed, so I guess with that it is enough to just reject < 1.4.0 as well as < [revision number]
16:53:27  <Rubidium> Zuu: the 1.3 branch has 1.3.0.revision, trunk (currently) has 1.4.0.revision
16:54:49  <Rubidium> the minor version and release bit are kinda unused
16:55:08  <Rubidium> and it could be that the revision is just 0 (no vcs)
16:57:30  <Zuu> So really, there is no right way. I choosed to check for existence of a cargodist setting as an indicator as it was included in trunk about the same time as the story book.
16:58:12  <Rubidium> revision 0 is a corner case you shouldn't care about. They simply don't want to have support
16:58:51  <Rubidium> but if something is only in trunk, then check for 1.4.0.revision instead of checking for a setting that might go (or be renamed) in the future
17:05:14  <planetmaker> is there no way to check the revision for GS / AI?
17:06:33  <Rubidium> planetmaker: they can get the NewGRF revision
17:06:37  <Rubidium> s/revision/version/
17:06:59  <planetmaker> and the x.y.z as well?
17:08:06  <Rubidium> yes
17:08:15  <Rubidium>
17:08:45  <Zuu> At least two libraries contain a method to decode that into the individual fields.
17:10:54  <Wolf01> bye
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17:14:42  <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25624 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-07-21 17:14:35 UTC)
17:14:43  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25620, r25623): Silence warnings
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17:37:51  <krinn> Zuu : class _SuperLib_Story { static APICheck = this; ...
17:38:13  <krinn> Zuu: then you can use the easy if ("GSStoryPage" in APICheck) ...
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17:45:24  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25625 /trunk/src/lang (polish.txt tamil.txt) (2013-07-21 17:45:16 UTC)
17:45:25  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:26  <DorpsGek> polish - 15 changes by p0358
17:45:27  <DorpsGek> tamil - 20 changes by aswn
17:54:28  <Zuu> krinn: That give a false positive on 1.3.2-RC2
17:55:20  <krinn> i don't get that 1.3.2 have the GSStoryPage no ?
17:55:23  <planetmaker> hm, what's the time frame settings like terraform_frame_burst applied to?
17:55:46  <Zuu> 1.3.2 doesn't have GSStoryPage, but your check reports that it has it.
17:56:41  <Rubidium> planetmaker: there is no time frame for that
17:57:26  <planetmaker> tick frame?
17:57:43  <krinn> Zuu you're sure i have it i think and GSStoryPage is there
17:58:17  <krinn> what is the r25613 ?
17:58:46  <Rubidium> planetmaker: you have a stack of a maximum of <terraform_frame_burst> with 'vouchers' for terraforming a tile. Per every now and then you get extra vouchers (based on <terraform_per_64k_frames>), but you may never have more than <terraform_frame_burst>
17:59:12  <Rubidium> so whenever the stack is 'full', you do not receive vouchers
17:59:27  <Zuu> krinn: Sorry, I forgot to re-compile SuperLib for NoGo. So I wasn't using my updated SuperLib code
17:59:48  <planetmaker> hm. Difficult to explain :-)
17:59:53  <Rubidium> so you can do at most terraform_frame_burst terraforms in one go, but the amount depends on the number of vouchers (or credits) you have saved up
18:00:06  <Rubidium> and the saving happens with that previously described rate
18:00:24  <planetmaker> ok, thank you
18:00:52  <Rubidium> I think you start with a full stack of vouchers
18:00:56  <krinn> Zuu just foreach (item, value in APICheck) print("item="+item); you'll see it catch every API keywords set by openttd (as long as the APICheck is set static to this)
18:01:16  <planetmaker> yes, one does that
18:01:30  <Zuu> krinn: Thanks, I've got it to work now.
18:01:50  <krinn> you're welcome
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18:19:08  <Aristide> Hi !
18:19:45  <planetmaker> hello
18:19:46  <Aristide> I need help about this : . When I cross rails, signals (at the left) are red, and train is blocked at station
18:19:57  <Aristide> Hi planetmaker :)
18:21:17  <planetmaker> are those path signals?
18:21:37  <Aristide> ?
18:21:44  <Aristide> No its ... Wait
18:22:03  <Aristide> I don't know how do you say this in English
18:22:06  <Aristide> I post a small screenshot
18:22:11  <planetmaker> no. post the savegame
18:22:26  <Aristide> planetmaker: Ok
18:22:39  <Aristide> planetmaker: I use this signal .. .Wait I post my save
18:22:54  <planetmaker> yes, that's a path signal :-)
18:23:05  <Aristide> Ok :)
18:23:33  <planetmaker> still, I don't know how tracks continue out of screen. Thus I can't answer your question
18:23:46  <planetmaker> and orders are important, too :-)
18:23:55  <Aristide> Order of build signals ?
18:24:27  <krinn> orders you set in the train order list
18:24:31  <planetmaker> order of trains.
18:24:59  <Aristide> planetmaker
18:26:03  <Aristide> xD
18:26:09  <Aristide> Hum ...
18:26:39  <Zuu> krinn: Finnaly there is a CluelessPlus on bananas that supports NoCarGoal via the SCPLib :-)
18:26:43  <krinn> :) french bus drivers are known to be french, wine lover
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18:27:11  <krinn> Zuu, you've made the lib wrapper already ?
18:27:26  <Zuu> Soon there will be a NoCarGoal 9 which has a company league table so you can sit back and monitor it easier :-)
18:27:52  <Zuu> The wrapper library is already published. It is a quite short library.
18:28:02  <planetmaker> right... that link ... leaves me clueless how to get his file. obviously also not that important :D
18:28:41  <krinn> planetmaker, click on "Valider et télécharger le fichier"
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18:28:51  <Aristide> planetmaker: Sorry for disconnect
18:29:02  <Aristide> Wifi is bad x)
18:29:17  <Aristide> What is my last message please ?
18:29:26  <planetmaker> "Hum..."
18:29:34  <krinn> :)
18:29:39  <Aristide> Okay :)
18:30:23  <planetmaker> anyway, that link gives me a file called "oRbvf2RKj"... that's a mungled-up name of the savegame?
18:30:48  <Aristide> Hm ... planetmaker rename this at .zip file :3
18:30:53  <krinn> not even in old french planetmaker
18:32:13  <planetmaker> Aristide, compressing savegames is pointless. They are already compressed
18:32:22  <Aristide> Ah . Okay
18:32:26  <planetmaker> with a better algorithm than zip ;-)
18:33:06  <Aristide> :)
18:33:23  <Aristide> Do you have a general discussion channel ?
18:33:27  <planetmaker> all hail bananas <3 :-)
18:33:31  <krinn> Zuu the SCPClient_NoCarGoal is gave with nocargoal?
18:33:33  <planetmaker> this channel is it
18:33:59  <Zuu> krinn: No, it is a separate AI library
18:34:08  <Zuu> NoCarGoal is a GS
18:34:19  <krinn> ah lol yes, getting lost there
18:34:20  <Rubidium> yay... that ZIP is 231 bytes bigger than its content ;)
18:34:59  <planetmaker> right. It's a block signal, Aristide
18:35:16  <planetmaker> the trains wait on another to clear the block
18:35:21  <planetmaker> simply start using path signals
18:35:33  <Aristide> path signal ?
18:35:48  <krinn> the signal you've show on the screenshot
18:35:49  <planetmaker> the signal you showed me. The station has different ones
18:36:15  <frosch123> hmm, rsync transfer rate with binary diffs is more awesome than windows copy dialog
18:37:19  <Aristide> planetmaker: And its possible to fix this problem ?
18:37:35  <planetmaker> Tu veux "signaux de chemin", pas "signeaux de bloc"
18:37:55  <planetmaker> yes. Replace the signals
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18:38:27  <Alberth> evenink andy
18:38:55  <krinn> it's "Signal de chemin" (signaux is plural form)
18:38:59  <Aristide> Ok
18:39:08  <andythenorth> o/
18:39:20  <planetmaker> I know, krinn. I switched to French openttd to look at land area info ;-)
18:39:34  <krinn> :)
18:39:37  <planetmaker> it gives plural form
18:40:10  <Alberth> obviously the best way to express it in French :)
18:40:30  <krinn> on mines it gives singular one, as it's the name of a signal plural shouldn't be use
18:41:52  <planetmaker> krinn, yes, the context help in the signal window does. The land area info tells "Monorail avec signeaux de chemin" as tile type
18:42:49  <Aristide> gnaux* :x
18:43:25  <krinn> ah yes i see in the info help
18:44:09  <Aristide> I'm currious : do you know "C Subway" in Lyon ?
18:44:39  <krinn> no, you're from lyon?
18:44:42  <Aristide> Yes
18:44:48  <Aristide> :3 I like the rise of the station <3
18:45:25  <Aristide> krinn: And you ?
18:45:39  <krinn> la seyne
18:45:44  <krinn> entre toulon et marseille
18:45:57  <Aristide> Ah okay :)
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18:49:23  <Aristide> planetmaker: Where do you live ? :D (Sorry i'm currious)
18:50:44  <planetmaker> ^ ;-)
18:50:52  <frosch123> forum says he lives on "sol d"
18:51:50  <krinn> going eat, later
18:51:51  <planetmaker> Maybe it should be 'Sol b'. I think letters are assigned in order of discovery... and doubtless this planet was discovered first :-)
18:51:58  <Aristide> Is not in Lyon :(
18:52:13  <planetmaker> you could book a weekend trip ;-)
18:52:20  <frosch123> planetmaker: really? i would have expected sorting by radius
18:52:27  <frosch123> a being sol itself
18:52:41  <planetmaker> stars are capital letters, but yeah :-)
18:52:54  <planetmaker> and no letters for single stars like Sol
18:52:56  <frosch123> planetmaker: actually, i am not sure about the discovered-first thing
18:53:11  <planetmaker> frosch123, you can't simply rename the planets
18:53:20  <frosch123> you could easily discover venus etc, but it takes some time to acknowledge your own planet as such
18:53:30  <planetmaker> ah... yeah :-)
18:53:44  * andythenorth wastes some bytes pondering
18:54:11  <frosch123> andythenorth: what's your download speed?
18:54:31  <andythenorth> depends on time of day :P
18:54:34  <planetmaker> example
18:54:39  <frosch123> say 500 MiB?
18:54:47  <frosch123> from to you
18:55:24  <planetmaker> :-)
18:55:35  <andythenorth> right now I get about 420KB/s
18:55:52  <planetmaker> @calc 500*1024 / 420 / 3600
18:55:52  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 0.338624338624
18:55:55  <planetmaker> half an hour
18:55:58  <andythenorth> KB not kb btw, I double checked
18:56:14  <andythenorth> Kb :P
18:56:20  <planetmaker> :-) ok, 4 hours :D
18:56:40  <andythenorth> Zbase?
18:57:15  <frosch123> no, virtualbox disk image
18:57:39  <andythenorth> o_O
18:57:49  <planetmaker> you want that, andythenorth :-)
18:57:55  <planetmaker> *nudge*
18:58:06  <andythenorth> does it render all OS X bugs null? O_O
18:58:06  <frosch123> you need a computer with virtualbox ofc :)
18:58:11  <frosch123> and i believe also 64bit
18:58:13  <andythenorth> I haz virtual box
18:58:18  <andythenorth> it's crappy, but works
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18:58:29  <andythenorth> and I paid nothing so I'm happy customer
18:59:20  <planetmaker> Aristide, in general you use way too few signals, I think
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18:59:58  <planetmaker> might explain a few things. Also you might want to enable showing the reserved path in the advanced settings
19:00:25  <andythenorth> what's on the disk image?
19:00:28  <andythenorth> ship smoke?
19:00:30  <andythenorth> yacd?
19:00:37  <andythenorth> xml newgrfs?
19:00:45  <planetmaker> fruits
19:00:50  <andythenorth> ah
19:00:51  <andythenorth> oic
19:00:53  <frosch123> mostly python stuff
19:01:07  <andythenorth> so now I have to learn yet another python web framework :(
19:04:16  <Alberth> let's just rebuild it :p
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19:54:21  <andythenorth> fastest way to produce a set containing the value of a property in multiple objects?
19:54:27  <andythenorth> : objects are conveniently in a list
19:54:49  <andythenorth> list comprehension?  or reduce() ?
19:56:37  <andythenorth> list comprehension worked
19:58:44  <andythenorth> vehicle intro date is *earliest* possible date yes?
19:58:52  <andythenorth> randomisation can't make it available earlier
19:58:53  <V453000> ye
19:58:57  <V453000> I think so
19:59:02  <andythenorth> hmm frick, the offer to test
19:59:04  <V453000> usually is 1-2 years after that
19:59:05  <andythenorth> breaks my plan
19:59:17  <V453000> hm idk when offer to test comes
19:59:53  <planetmaker> offer to test might make it 1 year early for one company
20:00:26  <V453000> thought so
20:00:28  <andythenorth> I'll just use 0 to be safe
20:00:31  <andythenorth> this is in graphics switches
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20:12:29  <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: list comprehension
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22:04:53  <pjpe> man the extra height levels really make the map feel different
22:04:56  <pjpe> never would have thought it before
22:07:09  <planetmaker> yes, they do. it's a HUGE patch queue, though
22:07:21  <planetmaker> which unfortunately is not maintained
22:07:37  <pjpe> never really noticed before how static the normal height looks in comparison
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22:10:49  <V453000> depends how much infrastructure is on the landscape :P
22:10:53  <V453000> oh he left
22:10:54  <V453000> mah
22:11:37  <planetmaker> he :-)
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23:00:34  <NGC3982>
23:00:38  <NGC3982>
23:00:46  <NGC3982> So, do you think a RPI would fit in there?
23:01:38  *** kais58__8 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:06:51  <Supercheese> I've never used raspberry pis, only various arduinos
23:08:16  *** MatrixCL [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:09:54  <NGC3982> Also, using the XBMC remote app with Android
23:10:03  <NGC3982> Feels fantastic.
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