Config
Log for #openttd on 12th August 2013:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:55  <glx> no bool in C, only ints
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00:01:30  <krinn> well, maybe the language will accept that, but sure gcc will throw a warning
00:02:58  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: but ~1 is not 0
00:03:16  <krinn> didn't say that Eddi|zuHause don't try fool me :)
00:03:17  <Eddi|zuHause> and "in" doesn't have to return 1
00:03:47  <krinn> well, if C doesn't have a boolean type "in" should return 1 or 0 no ?
00:03:57  <Eddi|zuHause> no
00:04:18  <Eddi|zuHause> squirrel docs specifically say "in" returns non-zero
00:04:49  <Eddi|zuHause> so it can return 2, or 65535, or ...
00:06:08  <krinn> yep but it says also it return null on success
00:06:12  <krinn> and ~null ?
00:06:24  <Eddi|zuHause> ~0 is -1
00:06:38  <krinn> ~0 is ffffff...
00:06:46  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
00:06:51  <glx> -1 or max_uint
00:07:08  <Eddi|zuHause> depending on whether you interpret it signed or unsigned
00:07:57  <krinn> isn't -1 the ~1 ?
00:08:52  <Eddi|zuHause> no, - and ~ are different things :)
00:09:12  <glx> ~1 is 0xFFF...FFE
00:09:51  <Eddi|zuHause> ~0 = -1, ~1 = -2, ~2 = -3, etc.
00:10:08  <Eddi|zuHause> it's "off by one" (see 2-complement)
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00:10:25  <krinn> well, i was think it was ~x == max_uint -x
00:10:55  <krinn> like glx said
00:11:26  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, again, just depending on whether you interpret it signed or unsigned
00:11:27  <glx> that's the same :)
00:12:07  <krinn> ah ok, i suppose sign return max_int version, and non sign return the negative one ?
00:12:42  <Eddi|zuHause> for all intents and purposes, internally, max_uint == -1
00:13:12  <Eddi|zuHause> so if you replace it as ~x == -1-x, it's the same expression
00:13:51  <krinn> ok thank you for the lesson guys, i should do c one day :)
00:14:07  <Eddi|zuHause> this has nothing to do with C, anyway
00:15:45  <krinn> i don't remember how pascal handle that, but i think it's language specific how this is implemented
00:16:04  <glx> pascal does exactly like C
00:16:24  <krinn> in pascal boolean is a type, so ~ is not allow on boolean
00:16:32  <glx> of course
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00:16:41  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but there is the ord() function
00:17:52  <Eddi|zuHause> but this 2-complement is implemented on all modern processors (where "modern" is at least the 1980's)
00:20:11  <Eddi|zuHause> other common methods of representing negative numbers are 1-complement (not used anymore) and sign/absolute (used with floating point numbers)
00:21:37  <Eddi|zuHause> 1-complement has the advantage of the same number of negative numbers as positive numbers (2-complement has 1 additional negative number, which cannot be converted to a positive number without leaving the value range), but the disadvantage of having two representations of 0
00:22:54  <Eddi|zuHause> sign/absolute has that same problem, but for floating point maths, things are more complicated anyway
00:22:56  <krinn> you mean 1 complement : ~1 is just -1 ~100 is -100... hence why ~0 = 0
00:23:36  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, 0 and -0 are different internal values internally
00:23:52  <Eddi|zuHause> -0 would be FF...FF
00:25:04  <Eddi|zuHause> since this means, the very common "check for 0" and the "is this equal" operations get more complicated (in hardware!), this format is not used anymore
00:25:48  <glx> "is this equal" being "is the difference is 0"
00:26:18  <krinn> to not get a if (0 < ~0) failure
00:26:52  <Eddi|zuHause> you need a special case for "000000 == FFFFFF"
00:26:52  <glx> 0 is always < ~0
00:27:14  <glx> as I guess ~0 is assumed to be unsigned
00:27:17  <Eddi|zuHause> which makes the hardware more complicated
00:27:40  <krinn> glx i speak about the 1-complement 0
00:28:13  <krinn> but i get it (i think)
00:29:06  <krinn> i just cannot remember how i was handling that in pascal (it's old)
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04:13:47  <Supercheese> Forum database backup seems to be taking quite a whilwe
04:13:50  <Supercheese> while*
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05:32:26  <dihedral> good morning gents
05:32:57  <dihedral> TrueBrain, how quickly cann you add gnutls to the admin port?
05:33:11  <dihedral> i would love a patch and get my bot to support it :-)
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07:56:44  * LordAro waves hi
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08:15:58  * dihedral waves air
08:17:04  <V453000> hy :)
08:18:12  <dihedral> hey there V :)
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09:07:28  <peter1138> shutting down a vm works better when you do it on the right host o_O
09:20:07  <dihedral> lol
09:21:17  <__ln__> you're jumping into conclusion without adequate research
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09:27:55  <Wolf01> hello
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11:23:18  <LordAro> so, what do we think of elementary OS ?
11:24:42  <V453000> yes
11:28:52  <peter1138> no
11:29:05  <Zuu> nothing
11:29:11  <peter1138> is it linux?
11:30:11  <LordAro> yh
11:30:17  <LordAro> http://elementaryos.org/
11:30:28  <peter1138> oh, yet another debian via ubuntu derivative
11:30:35  <peter1138> why so fucking many
11:32:37  <LordAro> people are saying good things about it
11:32:58  <peter1138> people say good things about ubuntu, doesn't mean it's good
11:33:51  <peter1138> also, best theme ever? http://gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/160190-1.png
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11:38:58  <LordAro> indeed, at the end of the day, people like me and you aren't going to want the 'totally user friendly' type of thing (like osx)
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11:39:21  <LordAro> however, it does make it a lot easier for new people, and more people using linux == better ?
11:40:56  <Zuu> Better depends on what you measure
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11:46:28  <Twofish> Like how LordAro asked: so, what do __we__ think of elementary OS ?
11:47:16  <Twofish> feeling like beeing at the doctors office :)
11:47:40  <Twofish> (heading to the dentist later, so don't know why i "liked" it...
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12:08:00  <Eddi|zuHause> who has time to try out all these OSes, and then decide which one fits the best?
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14:09:42  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, that's why everybodi* uses windows
14:10:25  <V453000> :>
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15:32:56  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25719 /trunk/src/lang (korean.txt lithuanian.txt) (2013-08-11 17:45:14 UTC)
15:32:57  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
15:32:58  <DorpsGek> korean - 23 changes by telk5093
15:32:59  <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 39 changes by Stabilitronas
15:34:14  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25719 /trunk/src/lang (korean.txt lithuanian.txt) (2013-08-11 17:45:14 UTC)
15:34:15  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
15:34:16  <DorpsGek> korean - 23 changes by telk5093
15:34:17  <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 39 changes by Stabilitronas
15:35:18  <peter1138> twice!
15:35:28  <TrueBrain> thrice even!
15:37:18  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not even 19:45
15:38:14  <Eddi|zuHause> or it's groundhog day and we haven't realised
15:39:12  <peter1138> it's not even the 11th
15:40:20  <Rubidium> or is it?
15:41:53  <peter1138> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
15:42:01  <peter1138> woo, connection limit works
15:42:28  <TrueBrain> telnet? really?
15:42:41  <peter1138> yes, handy for debugging
15:42:46  <Rubidium> netcat! ;)
15:42:49  <TrueBrain> netcat!!
15:42:52  <TrueBrain> :D
15:43:03  <peter1138> i can never be bothered :p
15:43:28  <peter1138> i do get a bit miffed that i can't uninstall openssh-*client* sometimes :(
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16:54:16  <dihedral> TrueBrain, feedback on tls admin port?
16:57:56  <peter1138> he's been busy with me today ;)
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17:45:23  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25720 /trunk/src/lang (indonesian.txt lithuanian.txt) (2013-08-12 17:45:15 UTC)
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:25  <DorpsGek> indonesian - 64 changes by UseYourIllusion
17:45:26  <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 4 changes by Stabilitronas
17:48:44  <krinn> where can i get the dest too far value?
17:50:16  <krinn> i don't mean the value of the error, but the value that trigger the error (so the max distance limit)
17:51:00  <Zuu> krinn: For aircraft or ships?
17:51:06  <krinn> ships
17:51:24  <krinn> it's like a pathfinder limitation
17:52:08  <Zuu> Not sure, but you could for example lookup the relevant order AI API method and see which DoCommand it uses, read that code and eventually find the check.
17:52:48  <krinn> going see it
17:53:31  <Zuu> The DoCommand is probably in src/order.cpp or possible order_cmds.cpp
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18:08:28  <frosch123> krinn: http://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Need_To_Know <- maybe put the slope link somewhere there?
18:08:30  <krinn> if (dist >= 130) {
18:08:31  <krinn> 				return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_TOO_FAR_FROM_PREVIOUS_DESTINATION);
18:10:01  <krinn> must say i'm a bit surprise it's an hardcode number
18:10:15  <krinn> frosch123, i don't touch wiki, i don't want put hell there :)
18:10:33  <planetmaker> krinn, then it will remain wrong and not useful
18:10:47  <planetmaker> consider it *your* documentation
18:10:57  <krinn> better than damage by stupidity
18:11:15  <frosch123> reverting is easy :p
18:11:18  <planetmaker> ^
18:11:39  <planetmaker> if you do nothing for fear of doing wrong you'll never ever achieve anything
18:11:45  <planetmaker> Things get done by people being bold
18:12:04  <Rubidium> what if doing nothing is doing the wrong thing?
18:12:43  <frosch123> i think tb's forum signature is also on that topic :p
18:14:15  <krinn> some people are good at doing it, i prefer let them keep doing that
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18:17:51  <krinn> it's not like i wasn't sharing the info...
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18:51:37  <andythenorth> o/
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18:52:42  <planetmaker> \o
18:52:58  <krinn> hi andythenorth
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19:15:53  <andythenorth> what's the go?
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19:32:02  <Rubidium> yay... the forum loads fast again :(
19:32:53  <andythenorth> also all the whining is gone
19:32:56  <andythenorth> it's awesome :)
19:33:07  <V453000> :D
19:33:16  <Rubidium> Olivia, make sure it stays that way ;)
19:33:26  <MNIM> What, did you remove all the users?
19:34:31  *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:34:43  <krinn> The Transport Tycoon Forums are currently down for maintenance. (yeah pretty fast)
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20:06:51  <andythenorth> so why does searching my newgrf list for 'isr' get me CHIPS and FIRS?
20:06:57  *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
20:06:58  <andythenorth> old tags?
20:07:53  <Rubidium> ask it on the forums ;)
20:08:01  <andythenorth> they were pretty quiet on the issue
20:08:34  <frosch123> it searches grfname filename and description
20:09:07  <andythenorth> oh
20:09:09  <frosch123> "isr" might also hit on "misread"
20:09:22  <andythenorth> description is attributing graphics
20:09:25  <andythenorth> so ISR shows up
20:09:28  <andythenorth> valid I guess :P
20:09:41  <andythenorth> same for FIRS
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20:17:42  <andythenorth> need to do a bulk terminal for FIRS
20:17:49  <andythenorth> oil, grain, etc
20:17:50  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5105/bulk_terminal_ish.png
20:17:55  <andythenorth> likey?
20:17:56  <andythenorth> or not?
20:20:30  <andythenorth> or I should post it at forums?
20:21:53  <frosch123> the combination of blue and pink looks weird
20:22:01  <frosch123> aren't all tiles cc?
20:22:19  <andythenorth> photoshop mockup ;)
20:22:43  <frosch123> well, i guess the harbor should be bigger overall
20:22:47  <frosch123> if it gets more buildings
20:22:57  <frosch123> there should be some free space :p
20:23:28  <frosch123> the tanks might also not be directly at the water
20:23:47  <Nat_aS> Tiny boats
20:24:21  <Nat_aS> what looks weird to me
20:24:30  <Nat_aS> is the pier looks like it's hovering
20:24:52  <Nat_aS> or rather the part that connects it looks like it ought to either be thicker, or slanted
20:26:43  <krinn> miss mooring
20:29:47  <andythenorth> Nat_aS: it looks like it's flying in space?
20:30:00  <Nat_aS> Not so much that
20:30:05  <Nat_aS> but the pier should be thicker
20:30:11  <Nat_aS> it's not the same thickness as a normal tile
20:30:24  <Nat_aS> but it sticks out straigh from the land
20:30:31  <Nat_aS> so it should be the same thickness
20:30:44  <andythenorth> ?
20:31:17  <andythenorth> you mean the pier is not tall enough?
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20:34:35  <Nat_aS> yeah
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20:35:06  <Nat_aS> it should either be the same height of a normal tile, or it should start partway down the slope instead at the top of it
20:36:35  * andythenorth wonders how many pixels short it is
20:37:29  <andythenorth> might be 2
20:39:42  <krinn> and the 2nd crate looks too much closed to be useful to anyone
20:42:02  <andythenorth> crate?
20:42:34  <krinn> crane
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20:48:39  <andythenorth> good night
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21:24:30  <frosch123> night
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22:27:48  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:41:29  <Eddi|zuHause> is that just me or is the forum awfully slow today?
22:41:41  <krinn> awfully slow here too
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