Log for #openttd on 15th August 2013:
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01:29:58  <SamanthaD> \o
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05:30:46  <maddy_> good morning all
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07:39:44  <planetmaker> moin
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08:05:06  <Arkabzol> Dance music sounds a lot better with the noise of trains and buses starting.
08:05:32  <Arkabzol> ;)
08:05:47  <Arkabzol> Playing OpenTTD while listening to music.
08:06:08  <V453000> I only tried death metal ... sounded pretty good too
08:14:16  <SamanthaD> \o
08:15:19  <peter1138> Dance music sounds better muted
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08:24:17  <Arkabzol> oh opinions
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08:25:08  <Supercheese> Go for best of both worlds, dance remixes of TTD music
08:25:36  <Supercheese> although strangely, my favorite TTD remix seems to have disappeared from the Internet
08:26:00  <V453000> I have never seen any of those somehow
08:27:21  <Supercheese> This song
08:27:34  <Supercheese> I downloaded it years ago, can't find it again anywhere
08:28:45  <Supercheese> (I still have it, I'm just surprised it seems to have gone away)
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09:06:14  <dihedral> greetings
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09:07:24  * dihedral greets the planetmaker
09:07:41  <planetmaker> o/
09:09:34  * peter1138 mumbles at people hosting stuff on dyndns addresses
09:12:42  <dihedral> :-P
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09:16:02  <peter1138> it's open source, but the source code is not available, as the dyndns site is down
09:19:02  <planetmaker> :-) you're free to obtain it. you just have to cut off your head to reach it
09:20:06  <Xaroth|Work> .. for those who like cheap games :o
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09:36:03  <lugo> hi
09:36:24  <lugo> when translating string STR_CARGO_UNIT_COFFEE from FIRS, i have a problem
09:36:46  <lugo> Singular would be Sack Kaffee, plural would be SÀcke Kaffee
09:37:45  <lugo> so with {P 0 "" ?} i can only add letters, can i replace the whole word too?
09:38:36  <__ln__> by giving the whole word?
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09:42:03  <lugo> at what point exactly? betweeen the ""?
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09:44:37  <Terkhen> good morning
09:44:56  <__ln__> i don't remember/know the syntax really...
09:46:47  <lugo> yeah me neither, and the link from to "detailed guide to translating" is empty
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09:48:26  <__ln__> isn't there any similar cases in OpenTTD's german translations that you could look at?
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09:51:19  <LordAro> uuurrrggh
09:52:39  <lugo> mmh i'd really need to know the concept or in-game use of STR_STATION_???? to find suitable translations...
09:53:21  * lugo summons andthenorth
09:53:37  <lugo> we just need to say his name 3 times
09:55:04  <Terkhen> waiting a random amount of time also works
09:55:44  <maddy_> andythenorth left just after you asked the question, possibly to escape the necessity of answering it
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09:56:08  <Terkhen> lugo: STR_STATION_ strings are the names used for stations that are placed nearby the related industry
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09:58:13  <lugo> Terkhen: with appendixes like i.e. north, valley, ..?
09:58:24  <Terkhen> no, the string is the appendix
09:58:38  <lugo> ok
09:58:47  <Terkhen> {TOWNNAME} Fish Market, {TOWNNAME} Tanner Road and so on
09:58:53  * Terkhen wonders what Tanner Road means
09:58:57  <lugo> i see, thank you
09:59:05  <Terkhen> I should probably update my translation soon too
09:59:06  <lugo> that i'm also wondering :)
09:59:11  <Terkhen> you are welcome :)
09:59:12  <Terkhen> bbl
10:05:22  <krinn> hi
10:15:19  <planetmaker> lugo, sure, yo ucan replace in plurals anything
10:15:31  <planetmaker> S{P 0 "ack" "Àcke"}
10:16:02  <planetmaker> even {P 0 "nix geht" "vieles geht"}
10:22:07  <Eddi|zuHause> lugo: for the station names, the only condition is that no two names may be the same
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10:26:33  <lugo> planetmaker, Eddi|zuHause thanks
10:27:18  <lugo> i'm thinking about "Leuna" for Portland, but i have no ideas for Tanner Road  (mining) or James Watt Street (heavy industry)
10:28:48  <lugo> well, just "Chemiepark" instead of Leuna i guess...
10:29:44  <lugo> there are quite some typos in the german translation, well there were...
10:32:36  <planetmaker> Leuna... for Portland... yes. no. I thought of industry in the vicinity of... ports. But yes, might work
10:32:47  <planetmaker> Chemiepark, why not
10:33:04  <planetmaker> Just think of nice road names. Siemensstrasse instead of James Watt Street for instance
10:33:25  <planetmaker> Kohlmarkt instead of tanner road. Or similar
10:33:50  <lugo> Kohlmarkt is a little misleading isn't it :P
10:34:03  <lugo> but i like siemensstraße
10:34:31  <planetmaker> the names have no relation directly to the industry... And a 'tanner' is a "Gerber". So... whatever :-)
10:34:50  <planetmaker> those are road names I just pulled out of my hat (the english ones, I chose them :-P )
10:36:31  <peter1138> gah, bullshit microsoft
10:36:43  <lugo> "Flötzstraße" then :)
10:36:53  <peter1138> releasing an update with the same details as a previously installed update...
10:37:13  <planetmaker> never heard that name, lugo ;-)
10:37:37  <lugo> seems quite common though
10:37:41  <planetmaker> really?
10:38:10  <planetmaker> well :-)
10:38:19  <lugo> well there's one in bochum so i thoguth it's fitting :)
10:38:25  <planetmaker> :D
10:38:53  <planetmaker> Flötz already implies excavating industry
10:39:14  <planetmaker> namely... digging for coal
10:39:43  <lugo> should be more general?
10:45:59  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't frosch123 have a list of german names?
10:48:11  <frosch123> <- that's the original list
10:48:23  <frosch123> haven't seen the english end-product though :)
10:53:55  <lugo> inspirational: i picked Zeche for mining, auf dem Acker for farm, Kruppstraße for heavy industry
10:54:28  <lugo> planetmaker: in your reply on the forums, why {num} instead of {signed_word}?
10:54:35  <frosch123> i think pm suggested "drei Eichen" instead of "auf dem Acker"
10:59:21  <lugo>
10:59:45  <lugo> those are the results so far
11:00:14  <frosch123> i wondered which areas use "Pferdemarkt", and which "Roßmarkt" :)
11:01:26  <frosch123> "...park" sounds weird
11:01:32  <frosch123> have you seen such streets?
11:02:26  <frosch123> hmm, apparently it is common in other areas :)
11:02:27  <lugo> well more an area than a single street
11:03:21  <lugo> fits to the happy place of TTD-land i think :)
11:03:31  <frosch123> "Altes Rathaus" already confused me in the english version
11:04:12  <frosch123> it implies there is a new one, and the old one is no longer being used
11:04:35  <frosch123> "Sandbank" could be shortened to "Sand"
11:04:54  <Eddi|zuHause> not really
11:05:34  <lugo> mmh i think townname Sandbank sounds better than only Sand, but both are bit strange to hear
11:06:25  <frosch123> well, i haven't seen a station on water :p
11:09:32  <planetmaker> yes, "Sand" instead of "Sandbank". definitely
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11:10:33  <planetmaker> I never hear anywhere anything like "Sandbank". But places like "{PLACENAME} Sand" are very common at the coast
11:10:44  <lugo> should be changed in english too then..
11:10:51  <lugo> ok
11:10:51  <planetmaker> English is not German
11:11:12  <planetmaker> It's about what fits the language. And I asked andy there :-)
11:11:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never heard "Sand" as a location
11:11:27  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, you're not living anywhere near the coast
11:11:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess not :)
11:12:03  <wakou2> Sandbanks in Dorset?
11:12:04  <Xaroth|Work> in spain/catalonia it's "(place) de mar"  .. like lloret de mar, malgrat de mar, etc.
11:12:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth|Work: it's meant for places _in_ the sea (fishing grounds, etc.)
11:13:27  <lugo> ok i'm going with "Sand" then.. any more objections?
11:13:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i object!! :p
11:13:56  <Xaroth|Work> Eddi|zuHause: which idiot builds stuff IN the seas?!? :P
11:13:58  <planetmaker> and thanks for digging up the original list, frosch123 :-)
11:14:09  <planetmaker> Xaroth, it's natural for dredging sites ;-)
11:14:48  <Xaroth|Work> we use boats for that
11:15:08  <lugo> planetmaker: sorry to bug you, but you didn't answer the num/signed word thing
11:15:33  <planetmaker> use what was there. {NUM} might be openttd lang file, not newgrf semantics
11:16:00  <lugo> ok
11:16:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm feeling very short-answery today, it seems...
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11:21:00  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, <-- "Sand" as place description :-)
11:21:18  <planetmaker> look at the links to the different "Sande"
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11:21:37  <Wolf01> hello
11:21:44  <planetmaker> It's not an Island. It's not a Hallig. It's a Sand :D
11:23:41  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, but then it would be "{TOWNNAME}sand", not "{TOWNNAME} Sand"
11:24:13  <Eddi|zuHause> which may or may not work with some town names
11:24:22  <__ln__> Braunschweigsand
11:24:54  <Eddi|zuHause> because Braunschweig is known for being near the sea :p
11:25:11  <planetmaker> yeah, we totally have an Okercabana here. With beach. And beer :D
11:25:28  <V453000> depends how much beer you consume
11:25:45  <__ln__> Frankfurt an der Odersand
11:26:04  <MNIM> Pffft. beer is everywhere.
11:26:18  <frosch123> __ln__: Frankfurt an der Odersandsack
11:26:48  <planetmaker> I believe as station name you don't need to concatenate it. Assuming it's placed on or near a "Sand" near the town from the station name
11:26:55  <V453000> and vice versa MNIM, with beer you are everywhere
11:26:57  <V453000> slash can be
11:27:01  <MNIM> quite
11:27:13  <frosch123> MNIM: would you rather drown in coffee or in beer?
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11:28:54  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i can't help it, but "Sand" feels Totally Wrong(tm)
11:29:35  <lugo> Bucht?
11:29:46  <frosch123> "Sand" is only for trve people who also use "moin"
11:30:29  <V453000> D:
11:30:36  <planetmaker> exactly, frosch123 :-)
11:30:52  <MNIM> frosch123: beer, preferably
11:30:55  <planetmaker> in other places they simply can't occur
11:31:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i used "moin" before it was cool!! :p
11:31:15  <MNIM> or, even better
11:31:16  <MNIM> whiskey
11:31:28  <MNIM> because there's always whiskey in the jar. :P
11:32:37  <planetmaker> Alternatively: Siel, Deich, ...
11:32:52  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I used it since I could talk ;-)
11:33:02  <planetmaker> thus surely longer than you :-P
11:33:15  <Eddi|zuHause> but you are more northern than me :p
11:33:55  <V453000> how the hell do you say unicorn in german anyway
11:33:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i live in an area where people think that when you say "moin" it means "morgen"
11:34:01  <planetmaker> Einhorn
11:34:07  <V453000> boooring :>
11:35:05  <frosch123> what's it in czech?
11:35:47  <V453000> JEDNOROÅœEC
11:35:49  <V453000> !!!
11:35:58  <V453000> :>
11:36:09  <Eddi|zuHause> how is that any different? :p
11:36:14  <V453000> its awesome
11:36:14  <frosch123> sounds like rhinoceros
11:36:29  <Eddi|zuHause> "jed" meaning "one"
11:36:43  <V453000> thats exactly the same frosch, rhino is only called "nosoroÅŸec" where noso is ... nose :D
11:36:58  <frosch123> uninose
11:37:09  <V453000> no, more like headcorn
11:37:19  <V453000> or horse-rhino
11:37:29  <V453000> horze-unirhino
11:37:34  <Eddi|zuHause> well that's "Nashorn" in german :)
11:38:11  <V453000> sounds like asshorn
11:38:12  <V453000> :>
11:38:31  <Eddi|zuHause> no, an "ass" is an "esel" :p
11:38:55  <V453000> iz osel in czech ... you mean donkeyass
11:39:13  <frosch123> yeah, unicorn-donkey-chimera
11:39:20  <V453000> going purr
11:40:17  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: is that when you put a carrot in front of the donkey, so it moves? :p
11:40:41  <frosch123> no, you also have to colour it rainbow
11:40:44  <V453000> :D with the carrot being a part of the creature?
11:41:03  <frosch123> yeah, and eyes fixed in >< position
11:41:24  <Eddi|zuHause>
11:42:44  <Eddi|zuHause> wait a moment, how did we get from "station name for a dredging site" to "donkey with a carrot"?
11:43:15  <V453000> all paths lead to unicorns
11:43:33  <V453000> ask frog
11:43:55  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: there are certain words which are used regulary in every language
11:43:59  <frosch123> "unicorn" is one of them
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11:45:32  <__ln__> the source material for your statistics may be a bit biased if it suggests "unicorn" is used regularly in any language
11:45:55  <V453000> IRRELEVANT
11:46:09  <frosch123> __ln__: just take your sentence as example
11:46:14  <frosch123> it uses "unicorn" as often as "if"
11:46:28  <V453000> XD
11:46:40  <V453000> well done frosch123
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11:49:57  <LordAro> urgh
11:50:14  <dihedral> Lo 'Aro
11:50:27  <LordAro> hai dih
11:55:32  <NGC3982> I have been playing so much RCT2 lately. It's really good, but playing older tycoon games in their originality feels kind of strange when I'm so used to OpenTTD.
11:55:51  <frosch123> screen resolution, right?
11:56:26  <Xaroth|Work> and lack of smart features :P
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11:56:59  <V453000> low vehicle limits :((
11:57:11  <NGC3982> The resoluttion isn't really a problem. The features, though..
11:57:17  <NGC3982> -t
11:57:31  <V453000> + only point to point :( no junctions :(
11:57:32  <V453000> :(
11:57:35  <V453000> :(
11:58:01  <Pinkbeast> I haven't been on many rollercoasters with junctions in active use during normal operations.
11:58:12  <NGC3982> Just being able to clear the screen with the delete key is extremely neat.
11:58:13  <LordAro> NGC3982: ;)
11:58:24  <NGC3982> :O
11:59:58  <Eddi|zuHause> whenever i started up TTDPatch to test something, i got immediately annoyed by the smallest usability features missing
12:00:16  <frosch123> build on steep slopes?
12:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i ever got that far
12:00:40  <frosch123> :o
12:00:56  <Eddi|zuHause> but lets start at autorail
12:01:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really remember anymore what exactly it was
12:01:51  <Eddi|zuHause> but it was really small things
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12:02:31  <Eddi|zuHause> the kind that you always say "you don't appreciate the small things until they are gone"
12:04:02  <dihedral> i would still like to see 'cash penalties' introduced :-) if someone misbehaves, make him 'pay' - money goes into local charities
12:04:30  <frosch123> it's called "bribing" in ottd
12:04:33  <Eddi|zuHause> make an admin script!
12:05:41  <dihedral> frosch123, i mean enforced by the admin, as a console command e.g.
12:06:21  <frosch123> oh, you mean "change company", "bribe town 30 times"?
12:06:33  <dihedral> bribing has an effect
12:06:46  <dihedral> i want to charge.... some type of .. taxes :-P
12:06:47  <NGC3982> LordAro: That looks very.. promising.
12:06:51  <frosch123> not if you bribe enough often
12:06:55  <dihedral> 50% misbehaviour tax
12:07:03  <peter1138> can game scripts do things like dole out cash? heh
12:07:10  <dihedral> hehe
12:07:18  <dihedral> but it should work both ways
12:08:12  <dihedral> then i could create an admin script that handles some type of ... swiss bank accounts
12:08:17  <dihedral> transfer funds across games :-D
12:08:40  <V453000> make money on one server, go to another, sabotage whole server
12:08:43  <V453000> sounds great :D
12:08:57  <dihedral> sabbotage once, join never again
12:09:01  <dihedral> no problem
12:09:04  <V453000> still :>
12:09:05  <dihedral> + autosave
12:09:26  <V453000> well it takes a while until your banlist extends enough to cover all those idiots
12:09:36  <dihedral> but join, create company, gain cache - save outside of game, start new game, get cash back
12:09:55  <dihedral> V453000, same as openttdcoop  - irc password
12:10:03  <dihedral> or even worse, login to webpage first :-P
12:10:26  <dihedral> just that the webserver is not patched into openttd like at the luukland servers :-P
12:10:36  <V453000> lol
12:10:51  <V453000> plus use nightlies and custom newGRFs
12:11:10  <V453000> or patched openttd, even better
12:12:36  <maddy_> taxes could work otherwise, but they are such a pain in real life, and playing openttd lets me forget some such unpleasant things
12:14:10  <V453000> taxes would be great, you could add disasters related to taxes
12:14:25  <V453000> like minority A burning cars on the street up, passenger production rate -50%
12:14:55  <peter1138> is luukland still going?
12:15:05  <dihedral> V453000, WAR :-D
12:15:13  <dihedral> peter1138, nope - not for a year now
12:15:17  <V453000> :)
12:15:23  <Xaroth> V453000: nothing TrueBrain's CAS project can't fix :)
12:15:27  <V453000> luukland iz ded? how unfortunate
12:15:34  <dihedral> but
12:15:50  <Xaroth> lolz
12:16:28  <Xaroth> somebody should ask them to release their modification source
12:16:34  <Xaroth> seeing they distribute binaries
12:16:57  <V453000> you know the eventual result of that
12:17:17  <Xaroth|Work> them responding FOAD?
12:18:11  <Xaroth|Work> (I should really not have 2 irssi windows open on the same channel, I'm confusing myself..)
12:18:32  <V453000> :d
12:18:56  <peter1138> anyone know what's extra in their builds?
12:19:03  <dihedral> i am in their irc channel, lets see what happens
12:19:18  <peter1138> they do include a diff, which is not source, but good enough for me
12:19:34  <dihedral> they do?
12:19:57  <peter1138> "Patched OpenTTD client with some handy features for playing on Novapolis Servers. _Sources included_."
12:20:00  <dihedral> did not expect that
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12:20:32  <peter1138> something to do with cargo at least
12:20:55  <peter1138> special chat commands
12:21:48  <peter1138> some statistics
12:22:12  <dihedral> IConsoleCmdExec("connect");
12:22:14  <dihedral> hihi
12:23:07  <peter1138> yeah saves having to use the server list, eh?
12:23:31  <peter1138> innerhighlight.grf
12:23:37  <peter1138> is_alt_pressed
12:23:38  <peter1138> oh dear
12:23:42  <peter1138> they don't care about non-windows users :D
12:23:54  <dihedral> i think they do
12:23:58  <dihedral> oh
12:23:59  <dihedral> no
12:24:00  <dihedral> wait
12:24:02  <NGC3982> What is that?
12:24:04  <dihedral> non windows .. yes
12:24:39  <V453000> :DDD
12:24:39  <V453000> :>
12:24:43  <dihedral> lol
12:25:11  <dihedral> peter1138, line 1821
12:25:17  <V453000> windows is the future!
12:25:35  <peter1138> yes
12:26:02  <peter1138> dihedral, makes sense if you look at the previous context
12:26:26  <dihedral> no it does not
12:26:31  <dihedral> remove the entire block makes sense
12:26:43  <peter1138> well yes
12:26:45  <peter1138> true
12:29:47  <peter1138> +STR_CONFIG_SETTING_CTRL_GOTOSHORTCUT_ALTSHIFTCLICK              :alt+shift+left-click: {STRING2}
12:29:50  <peter1138> +STR_CONFIG_SETTING_CTRL_GOTOSHORTCUT_CTRLALTLCLICK              :ctrl+alt+left-click: {STRING2}
12:29:53  <peter1138> YEAH what
12:29:54  <dihedral> const byte _openttd_revision_modified = 0;
12:30:11  <peter1138> needed so normal clients can connect yes
12:30:21  <dihedral> this IS the client
12:30:35  <dihedral> or is it the server too
12:30:44  <peter1138> probably just the client
12:30:56  <dihedral> so you can connect to other servers
12:30:59  <peter1138> but okay, so it can connect to the server which is also marked as non modified
12:31:10  <peter1138> i assume
12:32:43  <dihedral> line 3234 is cute also
12:35:38  <V453000> nerds! :>
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12:39:13  <dihedral> they claim it works on linux, but one has to compile oneself
12:41:39  <V453000> they are doing serious competitive progaming out there, I doubt any progamer uses luxin :P
12:43:21  <frosch123> programmers use linux, progamers use luxin
12:43:25  <frosch123> sounds reasonable
12:44:34  <V453000> :D
12:44:35  <Wolf01> as you are talking about modifier keys, I was thinking again about the interface for playing on touch screen: would be hard to have an official biggui.grf and change some ui buttons to act as dropdown? I mean, you need to share orders (ctrl+goto on a vehicle) as I don't have ctrl (ok, I can use gestures to enable it but that's not the point) I wanted to change the goto button like the top
12:44:35  <Wolf01> menu, where you keep pressed and select an action, the first one is the default one
12:46:50  <Wolf01> and this for every action which use the ctrl key
12:48:05  <Wolf01> except for (remove)autorail and signals, where we already have an usable ui with many buttons which can be combined
12:49:56  <planetmaker> Wolf01, integrating enlarged GUI sprites is not unreasonable and feasible in some ways... Just not yet done
12:50:13  <planetmaker> michi has a somewhat nearly finished patch for that iirc
12:50:31  <planetmaker> kinda introducing an UI zoom variable
12:52:06  <Wolf01> the problem is not only the big gui, but all the ctrl(olled) actions
12:53:11  <planetmaker> it's two different problems, I think
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12:53:31  <planetmaker> the biggui is ... solvable. the idea exists. some code. but not yet done
12:53:33  <frosch123> the ultimate solution for ctrl are completely customizable hotkeys
12:53:42  <planetmaker> the different keys... ^
12:53:45  <frosch123> which could then also involve alt and win keys
12:54:04  <frosch123> and automatic hotkey dispaly in tooltips
12:54:07  <frosch123> or even on buttons
12:54:47  <frosch123> you know: like sc2 can display hotkeys on the action button, ottd could display them on the toolbar icons
12:55:02  <Wolf01> eh, but if you don't have keys™?
12:55:20  <frosch123> well, disable them
12:55:23  <planetmaker> dihedral, do you archive suggestions? Especially the non impossible ones?
12:55:36  <frosch123> could be the default for ape pads
12:56:10  <frosch123> hmm, actually, even apes use tools
12:56:27  <frosch123> so, cat pads maybe
12:56:41  <Wolf01> also without the ability to hover on a button is quite difficult to get a tooltip
12:58:41  <V453000> just draw the letter over the icon in the corner
12:58:46  <dihedral> planetmaker, :-)
12:59:03  <V453000> faster, and searching for tooltips is slow/tedious/not as effective
13:00:09  <Wolf01> it could be difficult to read
13:00:24  <frosch123> make every button take 1/4 of the screen
13:00:33  <V453000> not a problem at all if done properly
13:01:22  <dihedral> planetmaker, were you refering to ttf or my charging penalty idea
13:02:04  <frosch123> <- Wolf01: that's how it looks in sc2
13:02:08  <Wolf01> it works well with plain, single colored buttons with a great contrast from background, and the image of the button needs to leave an area where you can draw the letter/shortcut
13:02:14  <frosch123> but it gets harder with modifier keys :p
13:04:55  <planetmaker> dihedral, I were referring to your spelling in the tt-f posting, yes ;-)
13:05:07  <planetmaker> achieve != archive
13:05:14  <dihedral> oh yes
13:05:16  <dihedral> ops
13:05:21  <dihedral> i always do that one
13:05:38  <planetmaker> I know :-P
13:06:01  <dihedral> fixed :-P
13:06:09  <frosch123> i did it, until it annoyed me that albert always corrected me in the patch reviews :)
13:06:53  <frosch123> though i think smatz failed in teaching me safe/save
13:07:49  <dihedral> lol
13:07:53  <dihedral> where is SmatZ anyway?
13:07:56  <dihedral> @seen SmatZ
13:07:56  <DorpsGek> dihedral: SmatZ was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 2 days, 15 hours, 35 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <SmatZ> wish I were so lucky...
13:08:26  <dihedral> well - i guess that's still in reason
13:11:55  <planetmaker> archaif vs. adschief ;-) Only one has an "r" :-P
13:12:06  <dihedral> arrrr
13:13:23  <dihedral> novapolis is at lease very kind to openttd:
13:13:27  <dihedral> "Because of this, if you encounter any bug, report it to Novapolis team as it may be connected to patches included.
13:13:27  <dihedral> Unless you encouter the same bug on unpatched OpenTTD client do not report it to OpenTTD development team."
13:13:57  <planetmaker> I wonder how many bugs go amiss due to that, though :-)
13:14:37  <frosch123> dihedral: likely we flamed them long enough
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13:15:21  <dihedral> frosch123, don't be a spoil sport
13:15:50  <dihedral> ;-)
13:21:55  <maddy_> how would I go about using a hashtable-style datatype with key-value combinations, where key is a combination of TileIndex and Track?
13:22:35  <maddy_> I see there's a hashtable datatype already included, but not sure if that is suitable for it
13:22:36  <dihedral> :-D
13:22:52  <maddy_> what's funny?
13:22:54  <dihedral> what is your intention maddy_ , what do you want to store?
13:23:06  <V453000> going about beer is certainly an option
13:23:49  <maddy_> my signal programs, which will be a custom class, so I need a collection of them, and ability to search them with the said key
13:24:23  <frosch123> how many items do you expect?
13:24:37  <dihedral> it sounds like a lot of data
13:24:56  <dihedral> \o/ openttd will no longer run in opendos, due to memory limitations :-D
13:24:59  <dihedral> just kidding ;-)
13:25:01  <maddy_> frosch123: hard to say, probably 0 to 100 would be an average case
13:25:14  <frosch123> so, use a std::map :p
13:25:19  <maddy_> dihedral: it's not a lot of data at all
13:25:36  <frosch123> does the data need storing in the savegame?
13:25:57  <maddy_> frosch123: ok, and something like uint64 as the key? combining TileIndex and Track into one integer
13:26:01  <maddy_> frosch123: yes
13:26:10  <frosch123> no, custom struct or class with operator<
13:27:00  <frosch123> cargomonitors also use a std::map
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13:28:36  <maddy_> yeah, I will use std::map, thanks
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13:38:09  <dihedral> TB sit still will ya?
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13:57:34  <LordAro> is blank for anyone else?
13:57:49  <frosch123> currently not
13:57:55  <LordAro> interesting
13:58:15  <LordAro> oop, that's better
13:58:41  <LordAro> i still think there's something wrong with the mediawiki setup
13:59:16  <LordAro> it keeps happening
13:59:35  <frosch123> wasn't it maximum number of connections last time?
13:59:45  <frosch123> until tb banned another search engine
13:59:55  <LordAro> hmm, and "dbus-daemon" seems to be bugging out, it's using 100% of a core
14:00:09  <LordAro> brb
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14:03:54  <LordAro> that's better
14:17:40  <maddy_> is there a better datatype for generic lists where order does not matter than std::vector?
14:20:50  <maddy_> found it: forward_list
14:21:52  <frosch123> list and vector are very different
14:22:52  <maddy_> I just need something that I can iterate over, and add/remove elements
14:24:47  <frosch123> ottd has a smallvector class, which has an effective erase operation (which does not preserve order)
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14:25:42  <maddy_> frosch123: cool, I will use that instead
14:26:08  <frosch123> mind that ottd's container work slightly different to the stl ones
14:26:31  <frosch123> they generally do not call constructors or destructors, but you can construct stuff in place without the need to copy later
14:26:47  <frosch123> they are mainly used to store pod data though
14:26:49  <frosch123> -data
14:27:21  <maddy_> that's all I need actually
14:27:53  <maddy_> just storing small structs
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14:37:40  <V453000> are somewhere written recolour tables for company colours?
14:37:47  <frosch123> yes
14:38:04  <V453000> and may I ask where does the power of rainbow dwell? :)
14:38:20  <frosch123> ttdviewer for playing, or for text
14:39:11  <frosch123> <- actuelly, ttdviewer also has that file in the source
14:39:26  <V453000> O_O
14:39:59  <V453000> why are there all the zeros when the first 4 characters seem to matter :D
14:40:06  <frosch123> you can add custom recolouring to ttdviewer via that file btw :p
14:40:24  <frosch123> because they are text colours
14:40:35  <V453000> ooooh
14:40:43  <frosch123> fonts only use first 3 colours, and technically that's the recolourmap which ottd uses
14:40:47  <frosch123> cc are way more down
14:40:48  <V453000> excellent I see now
14:40:55  <V453000>  <sequence name="Company Color"> ...
14:41:10  <V453000> wanted to see mainly this :)                         <recolor name="red" sprite="779" indices="C6 C7 C8 C9 CA CB CC CD" separateable="all">                                  B3 B4 B5 B6 B7 A4 A5 A6
14:41:57  <V453000> thanks frog :) you shall be rewarded with madness
14:42:11  <frosch123> yay, more of it!
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14:43:06  <V453000> expect the worst, COMBINED with rainbow power
14:43:48  <frosch123> oh rainbow power. the unicorns always get quite horny on that
14:43:57  <V453000> XD
14:44:05  <Eddi|zuHause> decompile germanrv to get recolour madness :p
14:44:06  <V453000> you win today frosch
14:44:37  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: there are no animals, madness 0/10
14:44:50  <Eddi|zuHause> like 50% of that file are recolour sprites
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14:45:07  <Pitbull> Hello!
14:45:19  <V453000> mhm :)
14:45:20  <planetmaker> hello
14:45:21  <V453000> hi
14:45:40  <Pitbull> I don't suppose there's any chance I could jsut pop in here like this and get some help with using rcon? :D
14:45:46  <Pitbull> I searched teh forums already but the solutions didn't help
14:45:52  <Pitbull> err *the
14:46:10  <planetmaker> the chances might rise dramatically when you ask the questions instead of meta-questions
14:46:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't suppose you'd get an answer to a metaquestion
14:46:16  <Pitbull> Roger that :)
14:46:22  <V453000> type "rcon ban everybody"
14:46:26  <V453000> solves all problems
14:46:36  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you forgot the quotes :p
14:46:48  <V453000> shows I dont use rcon often :P
14:46:54  <Pitbull> I'm tryign to remotely load a saved game on my server. I can pause/unpause using rcon password "pause" and rcon password "unpause"
14:46:56  <V453000> joy of irc
14:47:08  <planetmaker> ^ :-)
14:47:09  <Pitbull> but rcon password "ls", rcon password "load newGame.sav" etc doesn;t work
14:47:14  <Pitbull> lol
14:47:22  <Pitbull> yes complaints will decrease dramatically with the ban everyone command :D
14:47:30  <Pitbull> the problem.....goes away
14:47:40  <V453000> literally!
14:47:58  <V453000> anyway, check that you have all newGRFs from the savegame on the server
14:48:14  <V453000> and that the save wasnt created with uncompatible/newer revision of openttd than the server haz
14:48:22  <V453000> step 3, ban everybody
14:48:33  <Pitbull> I believe I do, I created the savegame locally on teh server box earlier to load. Do I need to have the save on the client side to load it?
14:48:35  <Pitbull> lol
14:48:41  <Eddi|zuHause> that's when computers become sentient and get to the conclusion "wipe out all humanity" is the optimal solution
14:48:54  <V453000> XD
14:49:24  <V453000> it shouldnt be related to your client at all Pitbull
14:49:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen that scenario many times in movies. it must be true! :p
14:49:26  <Pitbull> "well we've achieved sentience, what do we do on our quest to better humanity? Well system V453000 says to check something call newGRFs, check server versions and then.....BAN EVERYONE."
14:49:35  <Pitbull> hmmm roger that
14:49:51  <Pitbull> is there a reason rcon password "ls" won't return anythign in the client console?
14:49:59  <Pitbull> I wanted to confirm I had the filenames right, I'm 95% I do
14:50:12  <V453000> I suppose that should do something but idk I dont use that command
14:50:17  <planetmaker> what does rcon pw "pwd" tell?
14:50:24  <V453000> ^
14:50:48  <Pitbull> C:\Users\<Username>\Documents\OpenTTD\save\
14:50:59  <Pitbull> That is where the save file is
14:51:03  <Pitbull> so that looks correct
14:51:14  <Eddi|zuHause> am i allowed to reply a forum post with "no." twice on the same day?
14:51:27  <planetmaker> depends on who sees it, Eddi|zuHause ;-9
14:51:28  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: you are allowed to do anything on the forums
14:51:31  <Pitbull> lol
14:51:45  <Pitbull> This is a dedicated server running in windows, if that's relevant
14:52:06  <Pitbull> ohhh duh
14:52:08  <Pitbull> dir
14:52:09  <frosch123> well, quite possible noone ever tested that :p
14:52:11  <Pitbull> lists my saves
14:52:18  <V453000> :D
14:52:20  <planetmaker> :-) ls is linux. dir is windows :D
14:52:29  <planetmaker> people using dedicated servers probably all use linux :D
14:52:35  <Eddi|zuHause> well the first one was "can we have more than 512 houses", and now there's "can we have underground stations?"
14:52:35  <Pitbull> lol
14:52:51  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: in that case apply "fuck no"
14:53:01  <Pitbull> is there a windows "more" command? my save list scrolsl out of the console window lol
14:53:06  <Pitbull> guess I cna go back to goggling at this point
14:53:12  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the correct answers are in both cases "yes", though
14:53:12  <V453000> alt F4
14:53:15  <Pitbull> and confirm the filenames before I get back to begging :D
14:53:33  <Eddi|zuHause> and the worst thing of all: he gives "stuttgart main station" as an example :p
14:53:49  <frosch123> Pitbull: you can scroll the console window
14:53:57  <planetmaker> Pitbull, first try to load one which you see?
14:54:03  <frosch123> mousewheel or shift up/down pgup/pgdn
14:54:20  <V453000> beer can be used for scrolling too
14:54:25  <V453000> in random directions usually
14:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause> s/sc//
14:55:26  <planetmaker> hm... scrolling. beer. I should scroll some dust into the bin. So that I can scroll beers with friends tomorrow
14:55:48  <Pitbull> ok! after doign the dir, I had teh file name correct, aaaaaand it loaded fine now!
14:55:56  <Pitbull> Thanks for the help!
14:56:01  <planetmaker> yw
14:56:18  <Pitbull> Appreciate it guys, sorry to do drive by tech support begging lol.
14:57:23  <Eddi|zuHause> oh... and then he also posts the same in two different forums...
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15:00:02  <planetmaker> indeed. locked one of them
15:00:23  <frosch123> before or after eddi's "no"? :p
15:01:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i've chosen not to reply at all
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15:29:03  <dihedral> Eddi, good for you :-P
15:34:28  <Rubidium> regarding that novapolis patch thing... I really have to think of the City Wok of South Park
15:34:42  * Rubidium ponders complaining that Thai doesn't work right ;)
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15:37:56  <Rubidium> lovaly... the client has buffer overflows
15:40:26  <Rubidium> oh... sqrt + double... desync!
15:41:55  * Rubidium wonders how long it takes to desync with a normal client there
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16:10:14  <__ln__>
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16:30:16  <V453000> where do I put the recolour {} thing?
16:30:23  <V453000> aka how do I activate it on the actual spriteset?
16:30:35  <frosch123> vehicles?
16:30:40  <V453000> y
16:31:02  <frosch123> "colour_mapping"
16:31:12  <frosch123> it's a callback
16:31:49  <V453000> oh right so in the graphics block
16:32:44  <V453000> eventually as random_switch{} 1:blue; etc, right?
16:34:28  <V453000> sounds suspiciously easy :)
16:35:17  <frosch123> random_switch in the colour_mapping is fine as long as you do not use rerandomisation with triggers
16:36:15  <V453000> no I wont do that, I only need another switch to be dependent on it (due to wagons to recolour dependently) ... I guess that should not be a problem
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16:57:47  <maddy_> how would I check if any signal on a given TileIndex and Track has a specified SignalState?
16:58:41  <frosch123> take a look at rail_map.h
16:58:48  <frosch123> or signal_map.h if there is such a thing
16:59:32  <maddy_> yeah that's the file I am looking at
16:59:49  <V453000> unexpected token at 2nd line: recolour_sprite
16:59:50  <frosch123> isn't there some function retunring a SignalState?
16:59:58  <V453000> what now :(
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17:00:24  <maddy_> frosch123: SignalState GetSingleSignalState(TileIndex t, byte signalbit)
17:00:48  <frosch123> well, there are multiple signals on a tile
17:00:51  <frosch123> up to four
17:01:26  <V453000> hm I guess I cant do it that way eh :D
17:01:45  <frosch123> ah, right, vehicles are more complicated :p
17:01:59  <frosch123> <- take a look at reserve_sprite there
17:02:24  <frosch123> later on you can put param[10] (as used in that example) into the callback
17:02:44  <maddy_> frosch123: there is also another function: uint GetSignalStates(TileIndex tile)
17:02:56  <V453000> o_O
17:05:53  <maddy_> what are the possible signalbits?
17:06:18  <frosch123> maybe take a look at GetTileTrackStatus_Rail (or whatever it is called) for how they are used
17:13:57  <V453000> WTF it is compiling :D lets see to what effect
17:20:05  <maddy_> frosch123: can't figure it out, my brain is frozen
17:21:16  <frosch123> did you look at GetTileTrackStatus_Track?
17:21:34  <maddy_> yeah
17:21:44  <frosch123> it uses stuff like GetPresentSignals, GetSignalStates, IsOnewaySignal, SignalOnTrack
17:22:12  <maddy_> yes
17:22:53  <maddy_> oh now I see it
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17:45:30  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25723 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-08-15 17:45:21 UTC)
17:45:31  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:32  <DorpsGek> indonesian - 71 changes by UseYourIllusion, abdu354
17:45:33  <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 2 changes by Stabilitronas
17:45:34  <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 68 changes by Phreeze
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18:01:39  <maddy_> bit logic is making my head dizzy
18:09:15  <maddy_> does this work (and can anyone think of a solution without the if)?
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18:15:23  <krinn> return (state == SIGNAL_STATE_RED) ? (SignalOntTrack(track) & ~GetSignalStates(t) != 0) : (SignalOnTrack(track) & GetSignalStates(t)) != 0)
18:15:34  <krinn> but i don't see what's wrong with using a if
18:15:59  <Alberth> in particular as the machine translates the ?: to an if anyway :)
18:16:14  <maddy_> well ?: is the same as if, I was thinking there might be a solution with another bit operator
18:16:54  <maddy_> but I might not need the whole func in it's current form, I just realized
18:17:01  <planetmaker> krinn, the only advantage is that it is a bit more concise... and looks cool like you know stuff :-P
18:17:03  <Alberth> != 0  versus  == 0 perhaps?
18:17:18  <krinn> :) planetmaker
18:18:24  <maddy_> I will structure my code a bit different, so don't waste thought on that problem :)
18:19:38  <krinn> without knowing it at all, i would say your function should return (GetSignalState(t) != 0) and that's all
18:20:02  <Eddi|zuHause> why is it, when i invest in a second treating room for generic deseases, there only come patients for tooth doctor and brain doctor the whole day?
18:20:44  <maddy_> Eddi|zuHause: some game?
18:20:56  <Alberth> to keep you busy refurbishing the rooms?
18:21:11  <Alberth> maddy_:  nah, real life of course :)
18:21:15  <TWerkhoven> hospital tycoon? or theme hospital
18:21:37  <maddy_> well, if it's real life, then it'd be interesting, is what I'm thinking
18:22:01  <planetmaker> TWerkhoven, sounds like CorsixTH ;-)
18:22:18  <Alberth> no tooth doctor in CTH
18:22:29  <krinn> nor in theme hospital
18:22:46  <planetmaker> I hate doctors and especially dentists
18:23:01  <Alberth> krinn: CTH == open source TH
18:23:05  <planetmaker> except when I *really* need them
18:23:49  <krinn> planetmaker, that's why God invent dogs & ropes
18:23:51  <maddy_> planetmaker: well, they inflict pain on you, and make YOU pay for it, so it's no wonder it's psychologically unpleasant
18:26:14  <Eddi|zuHause> the only REAL hospital game...
18:26:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Biing!
18:28:27  <krinn> understand why he loves that game now
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18:29:53  <maddy_> looks fun
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18:31:14  <Eddi|zuHause> it's actually really hard...
18:31:30  <Supercheese> Hey look, an andy
18:31:35  <krinn> lmao Eddi|zuHause i can see why
18:32:43  <frosch123> i played biing around age of 12 at some friend's house
18:32:58  <frosch123> i can only imagine that we only got a quarter of the hokes
18:33:00  <andythenorth> lo
18:33:01  <frosch123> *jokes
18:33:17  <krinn> hi andythenorth
18:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause> the furthest i ever got was day 5
18:34:25  <frosch123> no idea what that means
18:34:41  <frosch123> but i remember the cars were expensive
18:34:44  <frosch123> or the drivers or so
18:35:11  <andythenorth> so new TTD will look like lomo :(
18:35:19  <andythenorth> I tweeted at them asking them to think different :P
18:35:21  <andythenorth> no reply :P
18:36:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i never got around to cars... the whole running the basic clinic stuff is so expensive (unless you used the crack that everything is free)
18:37:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: you are not their target group
18:37:26  <maddy_> new TTD?
18:37:34  <frosch123> or did anyone from forums get a beta? :p
18:37:53  <LordAro> they probably checked and made sure we didn't :p
18:37:54  <andythenorth> frosch123: I have an ipad and an iphone, and they are targeting
18:38:04  <Supercheese> I have a feeling anyone who mentioned OTTD was denied beta
18:38:06  <frosch123> are they?
18:38:11  <andythenorth> I didn't mention openttd :)
18:38:16  * Supercheese did.
18:38:44  <frosch123> i thought they are targeting people who never played the earlier games
18:39:18  <andythenorth>
18:39:28  <andythenorth> "It's not going to be everyone's kind of game, but the kind of players who enjoyed Transport Tycoon many years ago and also new players who want to play an in-depth strategy game will hopefully see the appeal in such a complex and large game running on a tablet or mobile phone which is always with them."
18:40:35  <Supercheese> Hmm, I'm not very fond of the new FIRS station names
18:41:09  <Supercheese> Color me odd if you must, but I really like "[Town Name] [Industry Name]" nearby station names
18:41:47  <Supercheese> à la "Toronto Grain Mill" or "Berlin Lime Kiln"
18:41:48  <andythenorth> Supercheese: take it up with devs
18:41:55  <Supercheese> andythenorth: am.
18:42:02  <andythenorth> no no I just draw
18:42:06  <Supercheese> unless you meant OTTD devs :P
18:42:18  <frosch123> Supercheese: totonto iron ore mine sounds silly
18:42:25  <Supercheese> frosch123: No it does not
18:42:42  <andythenorth> we could play this game for a while
18:42:44  <andythenorth> yes it does
18:43:03  <Supercheese> Vote? :P
18:43:11  <frosch123> setting
18:43:25  <frosch123> "interesting station names" vs "boring station names"
18:43:32  <andythenorth> Vote?
18:43:36  <andythenorth> when do we ever vote?
18:43:42  <andythenorth> what would a vote prove? :o
18:43:50  * Supercheese was kidding
18:44:04  <Supercheese> some of the "interesting" names are very odd
18:44:04  <Alberth> when do you have station name even displayed? :p
18:44:13  <andythenorth> in the station
18:44:35  <Alberth> interesting point in time :p
18:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause> make it a parameter!!
18:44:47  <Supercheese> I'm confused how "portland" = "refinery"
18:44:56  * planetmaker finds the new station names nicer than the plain {TOWN} {INDUSTRY} types
18:45:20  <planetmaker> Supercheese, you probably will have an EEG of myself. It will surely be inconclusive ;-)
18:45:37  <andythenorth> Supercheese: just patch it :P
18:45:49  <Supercheese> Patch indeed, was just typing that
18:46:20  <frosch123> Supercheese: make an ottd patch
18:46:22  <andythenorth> or switch US lang to 'boring names'
18:46:24  <andythenorth> or something
18:46:31  <andythenorth> or make an NZ lang or somethnig
18:46:32  <frosch123> to name every station according to the industry name
18:46:45  <frosch123> then you can also make it name them "refinery 1" and "refinery 2"
18:46:55  <frosch123> it's not only boring, but it is also silly to code that into a newgrf
18:47:12  <andythenorth> ottd advanced setting
18:47:29  <Supercheese> I'm not the only one who doesn't like the new names:
18:47:36  <planetmaker> you now got your patch option offered on a silver platter :D
18:48:00  <planetmaker> to solve it once and for all :-)
18:48:06  <Supercheese> but anyway, patch for parameter, yes?
18:48:12  <andythenorth> a FIRS parameter?
18:48:13  <andythenorth> no
18:48:20  <planetmaker> an openttd adv. setting
18:48:25  <Supercheese> blah
18:48:31  <Supercheese> perhaps
18:48:44  <planetmaker> frosch is the newgrf authority :-P
18:48:47  <Supercheese> seems to me it's more of a newgrf thing
18:48:53  <andythenorth> it's really bloody silly to spend time writing newgrf props to copy the industry name into the station name
18:48:56  <andythenorth> :)
18:49:00  <andythenorth> it's totally redundant
18:49:11  <andythenorth> and it's (mostly) not how TTD names stations, which matters to me
18:49:17  <Supercheese> but also much easier than OTTD patching
18:49:24  <andythenorth> easier != better
18:49:32  <Supercheese> of course :P
18:49:35  <planetmaker> openttd patching should not be terribly difficult in that respect either, Supercheese
18:50:03  <planetmaker> add an adv. setting. locate the station naming function and make use of it there
18:50:35  <Supercheese> Worth a try
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18:51:28  <planetmaker> the interesting part there is that {INDUSTRYTYPE} is a localized string
18:53:36  *** Pensacola [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:59:33  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: you searched for something like this? :p
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19:00:32  <andythenorth> what next?
19:00:46  <andythenorth> I want FIRS to suck less :(
19:01:27  <andythenorth> planetmaker: opinions of this for Bulk Terminal?
19:01:32  * planetmaker didn't notice that FIRS sucks
19:01:35  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: interesting
19:01:39  <andythenorth> 1.3.0 sucks
19:01:41  <andythenorth> it isn't done yet
19:02:31  <Supercheese> removed the small boats from the terminal, I see
19:02:37  <planetmaker> andythenorth, that terminal is bulk for granular stuff but not ores. So... it's not exactly general-purpose bulkd
19:02:47  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I know, that's the problem :(
19:02:59  <andythenorth> if I want to change cargos, it's not generic
19:03:07  <andythenorth> oh
19:03:12  <andythenorth> I could use the thing from alu plant
19:03:14  <Alberth> shouldn't the cranes be higher? eg at a rails at least as high as that shed?
19:03:31  <andythenorth> probably
19:03:44  <andythenorth> I could use the triangular bulk store from this
19:04:19  <planetmaker> did you know that in grain containers the weight is carried by the walls, if they're filled higher than their diameter?
19:04:22  <V453000> andythenorth: cut the slack and stop reusing sprites on industries :P it needs some new magix
19:04:38  <andythenorth> V453000: it's getting that way
19:04:43  <V453000> :P
19:04:48  <andythenorth> running out of copy-paste options :(
19:05:00  <andythenorth> I am copy-pasting CHIPS
19:05:06  <andythenorth> but most of CHIPS is reused FIRS :P
19:05:18  <andythenorth> V453000: draw me a bulk terminal?
19:05:24  <V453000> ..
19:05:32  <andythenorth> buildings are piss easy, only one angle
19:05:36  <V453000> I am getting my brain demolished by recolour sprites atm
19:05:47  <andythenorth> I can even do the shading, just do me an outline of stuff
19:05:50  <V453000> might draw coffee next week
19:05:54  <planetmaker> andythenorth, what do you mean with 'taking from aluminum plant'?
19:05:57  <andythenorth> I have zero inspiration right now for drawing
19:06:04  <V453000> hm will see about them buildings
19:06:45  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the *big* triangle shed here
19:06:54  *** bb10 [] has joined #openttd
19:06:55  <andythenorth> sprites 9-11
19:06:57  *** bb10 [] has quit []
19:07:07  <planetmaker> ah, those. Well... yes... not sure
19:07:23  <planetmaker> Bulk terminals - in my imagination - are rather open and roofless
19:07:37  <planetmaker> except the containers / silos which you already show :-)
19:08:52  <andythenorth> this one is pretty neat:
19:09:00  <Alberth>
19:09:24  <planetmaker> nice image, andythenorth. Proves your point :D
19:09:56  <andythenorth> ?
19:10:01  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that is not a bulk terminal
19:10:28  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: why not?
19:11:29  <planetmaker>
19:11:38  <andythenorth> need a big crane :)
19:11:40  <andythenorth>
19:11:47  <andythenorth> seems MB is ahead of me :)
19:11:53  <maddy_> semaphore vs electric is just for looks, right? makes no difference functionally, and can mix them up?
19:13:25  <andythenorth> this terminal needs to build more on land
19:16:01  <Alberth> maddy_: indeed
19:18:02  <maddy_> good stuff, logic signals are coming soon guys, time to stop for today
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19:35:10  * andythenorth making bloody industries :P
19:35:46  <MNIM> Ah. busy with the livestock factories?
19:36:30  <andythenorth> lol
19:36:39  <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: I re-worked  .. should behave a lot smoother now .. think you'll like what it can do.
19:38:05  * TWerkhoven likes it
19:38:26  <Xaroth|Work> o/ TWerkhoven
19:38:30  <TWerkhoven> ello
19:38:44  <Xaroth|Work> always wanted to make something with urwid
19:39:13  <Xaroth|Work> but this should also show 90% of the stuff one would need for making other interfaces, like IRC bots :)
19:39:28  <TWerkhoven> hehe
19:39:36  <TWerkhoven> i just got rcvchat working with your events
19:42:28  <planetmaker> :-)
19:42:54  <TWerkhoven> btw, previous incarnation of would choke on clients quitting, did you know that?
19:43:15  <Xaroth|Work> it would choke on a lot of things :P
19:43:19  <Xaroth|Work> hence the re-work
19:46:08  <TWerkhoven> this one handles it fine yes
19:48:24  <Xaroth|Work> chat should also be displayed more sanely
19:48:56  <Xaroth|Work> and the clients and company list now show in a table form
19:49:02  <TWerkhoven> actually chatting crashes it
19:49:16  <Xaroth|Work> it does? hm
19:49:35  <TWerkhoven> typeerror, _chat() takes exactly 7 args (6 given)
19:50:07  <Xaroth|Work> er, I think you're using an old trackingclient; that one's updated as well
19:50:18  <Xaroth|Work> now sends the client object if it's available
19:50:27  <TWerkhoven> ah
19:50:28  <Xaroth|Work> (the 7th arg)
19:50:31  <TWerkhoven> fair enough
19:50:51  <TWerkhoven> i take it it sends the same with clientjoin/quit?
19:51:59  <Xaroth|Work> with join/quit it's slightly different
19:52:08  <Xaroth|Work> it sends the raw clientID if it doesn't know the client
19:52:12  <Xaroth|Work> else it sends the client object
19:52:20  <Xaroth|Work> so an isinstance(client, (long, int)) can filter those out
19:54:42  * TWerkhoven updates trackingclient too
19:54:53  <TWerkhoven> before i base too much on the old version
19:55:20  <Xaroth|Work> btw, technically will work without having libottdadmin2 actually installed, as it'll inject the proper path if it's available (if ../libottdadmin2/ exists)
19:55:51  <Xaroth|Work> but it'll give a warning for display (it'll appear when you close it again)
19:57:09  <TWerkhoven> i should probably do the same, fail properly if it cannot find libottdadmin2
19:57:17  <TWerkhoven> instead of just generic supybot error
20:03:42  <andythenorth>
20:06:43  <Alberth> nice photos
20:08:25  <V453000> no slugs 0/10
20:11:46  <Rubidium> doesn't like like high speed or something
20:12:55  <planetmaker> nice photos, andythenorth
20:13:03  <andythenorth> not mine :)
20:13:08  <andythenorth> they are pretty epic though
20:13:15  <andythenorth> mongolia for r30k?
20:13:59  <V453000> sure send us a post card :P
20:14:59  <andythenorth> some of these new bulk terminal layouts look ugly on minimap :(
20:15:10  <andythenorth> minimap prettiness is very important
20:15:29  <Alberth> apparently :)
20:15:34  <TWerkhoven> doesnt seem to display players creating new companies
20:15:41  <TWerkhoven> joining spectators or existing companies works fine
20:16:04  <TWerkhoven> is that expected behaviour?
20:17:32  <Xaroth|Work> ah, yeh, not yet implemented that part
20:18:29  <andythenorth> ho ho, a bulk terminal
20:18:33  <andythenorth> that Cat loader is *big*
20:22:34  <MNIM> Ehh. Wheels still seem to be less than one story tall.
20:26:42  <frosch123> night
20:26:45  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
20:29:42  <V453000> LOL since when does he have that quit quote
20:30:01  <TWerkhoven> for a few days at least
20:30:03  <planetmaker> at least yesterday. then I noticed :-)
20:30:29  <V453000> :)
20:30:54  <Bad_Brett> so V453000, did you came up with any ideas for andy's truck set?
20:31:09  <V453000> cant say I care about trucks :)
20:31:31  <V453000> but when it comes to heqs, they are so slow that it is too boring for me
20:31:32  <TWerkhoven> since before 1.3.2 became the stable release
20:31:37  <Bad_Brett> but he said he can't make it without you
20:31:45  <V453000> I didnt hear that :>
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20:31:52  <andythenorth> I said I can't make the space truck version
20:31:53  <andythenorth> without V453000
20:32:01  <V453000> makes sense
20:32:01  <Bad_Brett> oh yeah
20:32:04  <Bad_Brett> that's the one
20:32:16  <V453000> wtf is a space truck anyway
20:33:26  <Eddi|zuHause> if YOU don't know, nobody will :p
20:34:12  <andythenorth> ?
20:34:26  <andythenorth> actual nyancat looks a bit truck shaped
20:34:42  <planetmaker> omfg!
20:35:50  <Arkabzol> ahaha
20:35:56  <Arkabzol> nyan truck
20:36:29  <MNIM> Heh. whenever I hear nyancat I always think of a couple of friends of mine.
20:36:42  <MNIM> they have this huge mural of it in their living room.
20:36:47  <MNIM> it's /awesome/
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21:01:39  <Arkabzol> How can I find out about the buildings and what kind of stats they have?
21:02:04  <planetmaker> query tile tool?
21:04:46  <Arkabzol> Where is that? >_<
21:04:59  <planetmaker> right most button
21:05:02  <planetmaker> main toolbar
21:06:36  *** Arkabzol [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:07:01  *** Arkabzol [] has joined #openttd
21:07:14  <Arkabzol> Sorry. My IRC client acted up.
21:07:25  <Arkabzol> But yeah. The big question mark button. Of course...
21:07:25  <planetmaker> <planetmaker> right most button
21:07:25  <planetmaker> <planetmaker> main toolbar
21:07:31  <planetmaker> ok :-)
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21:08:50  <Malinux-> openttd 1.3.2 Ubuntu 12.04.2 suddenly pauses without me hitting the pause-button. Someone know where to look? I have not recently added any new-grfs
21:09:13  <LordAro> sounds odd, newgrfs wouldn't affect that
21:09:20  <LordAro> you touching the keyboard at all?
21:09:38  <Malinux-> noe. just using external mouse
21:09:43  <Malinux-> *no
21:09:43  <andythenorth> autosave?
21:09:56  <Malinux-> hm.. does autosave pause the game?
21:10:33  <Malinux-> It's very odd. I have played many hours today and the last days and this has never happend before
21:10:52  <Malinux-> ran openttd -d for debug, but nothing in therminal when it just entered pause-mode
21:11:44  <Malinux-> tried to not touch anything. it stills happens
21:14:14  <Malinux-> hm, it could be another program running using a lot of resources. I quit the program and it doesen't just pause any more. Maybe too early to be sure
21:15:17  <planetmaker> Malinux-, you didn't join a multiplayer game? Or used a game script?
21:15:27  <andythenorth> bouys are boring
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21:15:58  <andythenorth> can't the game just cache some linkgraph for ship routing?
21:16:14  <andythenorth> I suppose it would have to be updated whenever station or terrain alters
21:16:22  *** SamanthaD [] has joined #openttd
21:16:26  <planetmaker> that, andythenorth
21:16:43  <planetmaker> it's a way of laying tracks for ships :-)
21:17:17  <andythenorth> do ships calculate route every tick?
21:17:25  <andythenorth> or do they cache for a certain period?
21:17:26  <planetmaker> every tile border
21:17:33  <planetmaker> but yapf does have a cache
21:17:36  <andythenorth> wondering if the game can auto-bouy
21:17:48  <andythenorth> give the lighthouses some purpose? :P
21:17:55  <planetmaker> haha :-)
21:18:34  <Arkabzol> I like how the AdiIRC quit message doesn't mention weechat :-)
21:19:03  *** tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
21:20:41  <Xaroth|Work> or irssi
21:20:54  *** SamanthaD [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:21:03  <Malinux-> planetmaker: no. I have to date never played openttd with multiplayer :(
21:21:33  <Malinux-> planetmaker: the odd thing is. I quit tv-maxe and it's not randomly pause it self anymore
21:22:04  <planetmaker> probably that programme used all your cpu
21:22:24  <Malinux-> planetmaker: I think it did...
21:22:59  <Malinux-> Arkabzol: weechat is cool :)
21:24:50  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:25:13  <Malinux-> from one to another. will it be possible someday in the future to have the airports as objects to actually work?
21:25:34  <Malinux-> or have several planes on final at the same time, as in the real world?
21:25:50  <V453000> important features
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21:28:00  <Malinux-> V453000: yes, but it's not easy to program such things I belive
21:28:16  <Malinux-> but if it's possible it would mean more effective airports
21:28:31  <V453000> which isnt really anyhow useful
21:28:41  <V453000> especially considering the effort
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21:29:47  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: adding the creating-new-company bit now
21:29:57  <Malinux-> so the effect is so little it's not worth doing it?
21:30:48  <planetmaker> "worth doing" is highly subjective
21:30:51  <TWerkhoven> :)
21:31:32  <planetmaker> the game lives from people seeing something and then saying "eh, can't be too difficult to add XXX"
21:31:42  <planetmaker> and then actually trying to add it
21:31:56  <planetmaker> (instead of waiting someone else doing it)
21:32:04  <TWerkhoven> and not giving up once they see the sourcecode
21:32:08  <planetmaker> ^
21:32:15  <Xaroth|Work> 23:31:58 ]         income 18446744073709551424
21:32:16  <Xaroth|Work> heh
21:32:18  <Xaroth|Work> whooops
21:32:33  <planetmaker> income measured in sand corns?
21:32:47  <TWerkhoven> uint16 vs uint32 was it not?
21:33:17  <Xaroth|Work> yep
21:33:22  *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ
21:33:25  <Xaroth|Work> struct("Q") vs struct("q") for python
21:33:42  <Xaroth|Work> unsigned long long vs signed long long
21:34:11  <Xaroth|Work> Money vars are sent in the openttd code as if they are unsigned, even though it's not
21:34:15  <Xaroth|Work> confusing++
21:34:34  <planetmaker> not?
21:34:59  <Eddi|zuHause> money is int64 with an overflow-protection
21:35:21  <Xaroth|Work> p->Send_uint64(company->money);
21:35:48  <Eddi|zuHause> might be a bug then
21:36:14  *** namad7 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:36:22  <Xaroth|Work> well it shouldn't matter that much tbqfh, as long as you unpack it properly :P
21:36:37  <Xaroth|Work> and not assume that if it's sent as an uint64, that you should unpack it as an uint64
21:36:43  <Xaroth|Work> 23:36:02 ]         income -767
21:36:46  <Xaroth|Work> much better :)
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21:37:43  <Malinux-> I don't say it's easy to as I know how difficult things could be. :)
21:38:09  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: any other quick suggestions for ?
21:38:10  <Malinux-> in my dreams I can dream of impossible things to happend :)
21:38:24  <planetmaker> Malinux-, it's not even like no-one has yet tried to implement NewGRF airports. It's... just not completely finished
21:38:35  <planetmaker> and that guy is not around any longer
21:38:49  <planetmaker> basically it's a matter of introducing user-definable state machines
21:39:25  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, how would one translate "Silberbacken" into english?
21:39:45  <planetmaker> can you translate it for me into German? ;-)
21:40:15  <planetmaker> I've no clue as of what it would describe. Unless there's a "c" too much
21:40:20  <Eddi|zuHause>
21:40:25  <planetmaker> or you fell into a bottle of liquid silver
21:41:12  <Eddi|zuHause> the "Talent 2", colloquially "Hamsterbacke", painted in silver
21:41:20  <planetmaker> you mean... I should recognize a face and see the ... right :-)
21:41:50  <planetmaker> "silver cheek"
21:41:57  <Malinux-> is not around any longer, as in dead or not into openttd anymore? I hope the last :)
21:42:14  <planetmaker> the latter, yes
21:42:18  <Malinux-> :)
21:42:47  <Eddi|zuHause> from another angle:
21:42:50  <Malinux-> I have to go to bed, but maybe I am back another day for other wishes :p :)
21:43:10  <Malinux-> * other almost impossible wishes
21:43:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i think "silver cheek" loses something in translation
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21:47:25  <planetmaker> good night
21:47:31  <TWerkhoven> sleep well
21:51:12  *** SamanthaD [] has joined #openttd
21:51:19  <SamanthaD> \o/
21:51:43  <Terkhen> good night
21:51:47  <SamanthaD> nigh
21:52:32  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: syncing the latest additions now
21:52:47  <Xaroth|Work> includes the fix for negative income/value for company economy stats
21:53:21  <TWerkhoven> :)
21:58:26  <Xaroth|Work> :)
22:06:30  *** LordAro [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:28:21  <Supercheese> Hmm, newgrf nearby station names seem to override all other naming methods (Town Heliport, Town Docks, etc.)
22:31:53  *** sla_ro|master [] has quit []
22:37:06  <Supercheese> what is action 0 property 24?
22:37:36  <Supercheese> wiki is very slow
22:38:53  <Supercheese> nearby station name, right
22:39:57  <Arkabzol> Hrm
22:40:55  <Arkabzol> Interesting how your rating with the local authority goes quite quickly from max to "can't let you do that"
22:41:30  <Arkabzol> Not sure I agree with it...
22:41:35  <Supercheese> I just disable local authority entirely
22:41:47  <Supercheese> since I compile custom binaries
22:43:15  <Supercheese> maximum sandbox
22:46:57  <SamanthaD> I love how the local authority is just fine with you plastering the entire countryside with layers upon layers of tracks but god help you if you cut down a tree ;)
22:47:39  <Supercheese> treehugging commies :P
22:48:03  <SamanthaD> Yes, but they only like NEW trees!
22:48:33  <SamanthaD> "Listen, if you want to get on our good side you'd better cut down that old growth forest over there and replace it with something, you know, more up-to-date!"
22:51:41  <Arkabzol> I'm playing a Sweden scenario, so there's forest absolutely everywhere...
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22:57:11  <Bad_Brett> oh some nice activity going on here
22:57:20  <Supercheese> salve, amice
22:58:06  <Bad_Brett> good, thank you
22:58:51  <Bad_Brett> Arka, are you from Sweden?
22:59:11  <Bad_Brett> Supercheese: Any new eye candy?
22:59:31  <Supercheese> I've got 4x zoom sprites for the emergency vehicles coming
22:59:43  <Supercheese> have to sort out the 8bpp masks
23:01:04  <Bad_Brett> What software are you using?
23:01:06  <Supercheese> trying to write an OTTD patch atm
23:01:08  <Supercheese> Sketchup
23:01:11  <Supercheese> for renders
23:01:28  <Supercheese> GIMP for general raster editing
23:01:59  <Bad_Brett> can't you just do a blue material in sketchup with 100% self-illumination and remove antialiasing?
23:02:28  <Bad_Brett> that's how i create my masks
23:02:37  <Supercheese> I want action colors though
23:02:40  <Supercheese> blinky lights
23:03:40  <Bad_Brett> are you doing it in 8bpp or can that actually be done with 32bpp sprites?
23:03:54  <Supercheese> 32bpp sprite, 8bpp mask with action colors in the mask
23:03:57  <Supercheese> figure should work
23:04:19  <Ristovski> Dudes
23:04:20  <Bad_Brett> are you using company colors? otherwise it seems easier to do a simple animation
23:04:21  <Ristovski> http://0xADC22D21
23:04:23  <Ristovski> actual link
23:04:29  * Ristovski mad linux haxor
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23:05:11  <Supercheese> some vehicles will also have CC
23:06:11  <Bad_Brett> CC that blinks?
23:06:24  <Supercheese> no, CC paint schemes as well as flashing lights
23:06:46  <Supercheese> see current tow truck sprites
23:06:54  <Bad_Brett> link?
23:07:24  <Supercheese> ehm
23:07:32  <Supercheese> load the grf and build one? :P
23:07:55  <Supercheese>
23:08:01  <Bad_Brett> :)
23:08:17  <Bad_Brett> anyway, if the flashing lights won't be in CC, it seems easier to do a simple animation and only use masks for paint schemes... in my opinion that is :)
23:09:08  <Supercheese> I don't think the models I'm rendering would be easy to give animated lights to
23:09:52  * Supercheese is not really a 3d modeler
23:10:08  <Bad_Brett> maybe not... i've never used sketchup so i can't help you there really
23:10:21  <Supercheese> I like sketchup because it is very easy to use
23:10:29  <Supercheese> no silly features and weird UI like blender
23:10:39  <Bad_Brett> i hate blender as well
23:10:45  <Bad_Brett> tried to learn it, but gave up
23:10:50  <Supercheese> blender is un-usable
23:11:01  <Bad_Brett> have you tried AutoCAD?
23:11:09  <Bad_Brett> that program is a mess
23:11:25  <Supercheese> It's not really for rendering 3d models, right?
23:11:31  <Bad_Brett> luckily no
23:11:43  <Supercheese> more like drafting engineering drawings
23:11:47  <Bad_Brett> but it takes like five clicks to draw a simple line
23:12:39  <Bad_Brett> i guess it gets better if you learn the keyboard shortcuts but it's still frustrating
23:12:47  <Supercheese> should only take two, if your start and endpoint are snapped-to some feature
23:12:56  <Supercheese> well, plus 1 to activate the line tool
23:13:28  <Bad_Brett> yeah but then you have to right-click, select"quit line edit mode" and press Enter or something like that
23:13:36  <Supercheese> O_o
23:13:40  <Bad_Brett> yep...
23:13:46  <Bad_Brett> and the weird thing is
23:13:47  <Supercheese> I don't recall that being necessary
23:13:59  <Bad_Brett> that i've been using 3ds max since i was 15 years old
23:14:58  <Supercheese> ugh
23:15:03  <Supercheese> I'd rather just patch FIRS
23:15:06  <Supercheese> -_-
23:15:13  <Bad_Brett> heh
23:15:21  <Supercheese> ottd source is difficult
23:15:31  <Bad_Brett> yeah
23:15:35  <Bad_Brett> i gave up
23:15:39  <Bad_Brett> on that
23:15:44  <Supercheese> it's very easy to remove things you don't like
23:15:45  <Bad_Brett> i have too much other things going on
23:15:49  <Supercheese> very hard to add new features
23:16:13  <Bad_Brett> like getting the extra turning angles to work
23:16:22  <Supercheese> although that axiom applies almost anywhere :P
23:17:12  <Bad_Brett> well, luckily, a designer knows perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away ;)
23:17:35  * Supercheese always hears that quote in Nimoy's voice, thanks to Civ4
23:18:10  <Bad_Brett> :D
23:19:31  <Bad_Brett> anyway, if you become a source code guru, please create a solution for those curved tracks, because i'm gonna need them... looks like my locomotives derail at every curve :P
23:19:57  <Supercheese> curved tracks are easy to hack in
23:20:03  <Supercheese> not easy to code well :P
23:20:33  <Supercheese> crude newobject overlapping tiles can hack in curved tracks
23:20:42  <Supercheese> don't even need to patch the game
23:21:19  <Bad_Brett> really? how does it work?
23:21:37  <Supercheese> it works glitchily :P
23:22:19  <Bad_Brett> define glitchily
23:22:41  <Supercheese>
23:22:49  <Bad_Brett> the tt community is infamous for screaming "GLITCH!!!!" every time a sprite is two pixels off
23:22:51  <Supercheese> That grf does overlapping tiles I believe
23:23:19  <Supercheese> Oh wait, maybe that's not the one
23:24:12  <Supercheese> although I believe it is
23:24:34  <Bad_Brett> my entire grf is based on overlapping tiles, and i even experimented with curved tracks, but foundations made it impossible if i remember correctly
23:25:43  <Supercheese> well, the crude way is to have every possible combination of curves drawn as an overlapping newobject, and you place them beside the hard-angle tracks
23:25:58  <Supercheese> of course, that's rife with problems, but would work in many cases
23:26:47  <Supercheese> well, "work"
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23:29:27  <Supercheese> I would not recommend it
23:29:28  <Bad_Brett> it sounds a bit glitchy, yes :)
23:30:14  <Bad_Brett> sooner or later someone will hopefully get frustrated that my trains derail and make nice patch
23:30:27  <Supercheese> we need your train grf first, eh? ;)
23:31:10  <Bad_Brett> it's coming... when i get some new hardware
23:31:31  <Bad_Brett> estimated rendering time for a single locomotive is 50 hours
23:31:41  <Supercheese> yikes, how many frames for the animation?
23:31:53  <Supercheese> and how many views? more than 8 I take it?
23:32:13  <Bad_Brett> 256 views
23:32:44  <Supercheese> Yikes
23:32:47  <Bad_Brett> + maybe 16 frames for animations
23:33:27  <Bad_Brett> of course, wagons will need even more sprites
23:33:48  <Bad_Brett> depending on if they are loaded
23:34:09  <Bad_Brett> basically it will be 128 right turns and 128 left turns
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23:36:19  <Bad_Brett> each sprite is then split up in 16 smaller sprites
23:36:19  <Supercheese> combinatorial expansion
23:36:19  <Bad_Brett> so the total sprite count for a single locomotive will be around 10 000 sprites :)
23:36:19  <Bad_Brett> luckily, the file size is not as big as you would expect
23:36:19  <Supercheese> your grf will end up with a larger filesize than zBase at this rate
23:36:19  <Supercheese> oh?
23:36:43  <Bad_Brett> my test locomotive is 12 mb, and those sprites haven't been cropped at all, so i expect a much smaller filesize
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23:48:05  <Supercheese> Hmm, I wonder if there's any easier-to-understand documenting of the OTTD station naming algorithm
23:49:41  *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:49:58  <Bad_Brett> what's the problem?
23:50:03  <Supercheese> It seems to start with a large pool of available names and slowly remove some?
23:51:56  <Supercheese> blah
23:52:01  <Bad_Brett> no idea
23:52:12  <Bad_Brett> :)
23:53:04  <Arkabzol> millibits?
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23:53:57  <Supercheese> be way easier to fork FIRS
23:54:48  <Arkabzol> How can something be less than a bit?
23:55:09  <Supercheese> mb vs. MB, eh?
23:55:28  <Supercheese> I say we should use hectobytes
23:55:44  <Arkabzol> Capitalisation is important as fuck
23:55:51  <Arkabzol> m, M, b and B all have distinct meanings
23:56:13  <Supercheese> hB
23:56:24  <Supercheese> or daB
23:56:29  <Supercheese> fun units
23:58:06  <Arkabzol> The "hecto-" prefix reminds me of apples
23:58:37  <Arkabzol> Because that's the only use of it I see. Apples in hectograms.

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