Config
Log for #openttd on 5th December 2013:
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01:28:30  <GBeene> evening all
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01:29:24  <GBeene> hello
01:29:51  <Hazzard> Hi
01:30:34  <Hazzard> Anyone here somewhat familiar with the openttd source code?
01:32:16  <GBeene> not i
01:34:30  <GBeene> wish i was euro!
01:34:36  <GBeene> never anyone to talk to on here
01:37:02  <Super_Random> I can talk.
01:37:12  <Super_Random> I just don't choose to.
01:37:26  <GBeene> well that doesn't help me much!
01:38:11  <Super_Random> No, no it doesn't.
01:52:40  <GBeene> I just discovered the openttd coop wiki
01:52:43  <GBeene> this is the real deal
01:53:05  <GBeene> i am so in over my head
01:58:38  <Super_Random> sounds like a personal problem.
02:07:02  <GBeene> you're super fun to hang out in IRC with, Super_Random
02:08:23  <Super_Random> I know!
02:08:35  <GBeene> are you fun to hang out with by yourself?
02:08:37  * Super_Random is actually quite busy trying to solve Fallout: New Vegas issues.
02:08:39  <GBeene> would you say you enjoy your company
02:08:45  <GBeene> oic
02:08:49  <Super_Random> I do tend to enjoy my company.
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03:03:03  <Hazzard> lul
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08:56:50  <planetmaker> moin
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10:16:07  <NGC3982> Morning.
10:27:08  <Alberth> o/
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11:13:28  <zydeco> greetings, comrades
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11:59:13  <Eddi|zuHause> man this game is hopeless, i'm spending all my ressources defending, get stuck and fall behind in research, run out of tax money...
12:04:07  <V453000> clearly insufficient production and consumption of beer
12:05:28  <NGC3982> :z
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12:48:02  <MNIM> Hmmmh. my population will soon reach 100 million in freeciv.
12:48:14  <NGC3982> My god. I love Civilization.
12:48:38  <NGC3982> But i'm engaged, so i can't play more than an hour or so a day.
12:48:53  <NGC3982> That means no-no for Civ. :|
12:49:28  <MNIM> hah.
12:49:41  <MNIM> my current game takes an hour or so.
12:49:46  <MNIM> ...per turn
12:49:56  <NGC3982> Exactly. :(
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12:50:57  <MNIM> it's my own fault, though
12:51:00  <MNIM> it's a huge map
12:55:03  <MNIM> I currently have 89 cities. :/
12:56:00  <NGC3982> :E
12:58:48  <MNIM> 281 units.
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13:10:56  <NGC3982> I love trams.
13:11:47  <MNIM> but do you like trains?
13:13:00  <NGC3982> Of course i do.
13:13:34  <MNIM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHkKJfcBXcw
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13:57:50  <NGC3982> :(
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15:30:14  <FrenkyPohodar> I wish you a nice day.
15:33:44  <FrenkyPohodar> Do you know where you can get the first boat? Now I'm the first in 1800, is a little earlier? a train pulled by a horse, I can not find one, too. Thanks very much for your advice and help.
15:34:20  <Pinkbeast> FrenkyPohodar: What newgrfs do you have loaded?
15:38:06  <FrenkyPohodar> No, I can not find newgrf, I found the ship (since 1700) but no train pulled by horses (some older ships are not covered year 1700)
15:38:44  <Eddi|zuHause> FrenkyPohodar: in eGRVTS you have horses as road vehicles
15:41:04  <FrenkyPohodar> yeah got it, but somewhere I once saw the train pulling the horse before the onset UKRS 2 (1830)
15:41:22  <Pinkbeast> FrenkyPohodar: That was not in UKRS2. You can load multiple vehicle newgrfs.
15:41:42  <Pinkbeast> "Sailing Ships" has some very old ships
15:44:15  <Eddi|zuHause> FrenkyPohodar: the grf may have been called "early rail" or similar
15:45:50  <Eddi|zuHause> FrenkyPohodar: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41132
15:46:44  <FrenkyPohodar> ha I got it from a site "Before the year 1700 comes Early Rail and also UKRS Add-on (1500 start)" it will probably ono.Ted's what I found, thank you very much. :-)
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18:03:00  <Alberth> moin
18:03:32  <planetmaker> moin
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18:15:14  <Alberth> there seems to be a little problem with {RAW_STRING} versus {STRING} used in translations. According to the strgen tables, the former does not have cases, while the latter does support them
18:15:19  <Alberth> hi frosch
18:15:36  <Alberth> for GS this is not a real problem, as it doesn't have cases anyway
18:16:48  <frosch123> moin
18:17:41  <frosch123> and yes, RAW_STRING does not support cases
18:18:16  <Alberth> do you know what WT does with this situation?
18:18:53  <Alberth> does it recognize STRING as being translated from RAW_STRING, and thus disallow a case?
18:19:53  <frosch123> only the source can tell :)
18:20:45  <Alberth> ok :)
18:22:08  <Alberth> I updated the patch queue for gs support, the translation of commands is not included yet
18:22:22  <Alberth> I can throw the stuff I have in trunk if you like
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18:28:14  <frosch123> it looks to me like wt3 would accept cases for any string command
18:28:24  <frosch123> also {BLUE}
18:28:59  <planetmaker> hm :D
18:29:39  <frosch123> maybe we can just try it then :p
18:30:19  <LordAro> so, when is eints replacing wt3? ;p
18:30:39  <frosch123> when you port the master server to psql
18:30:45  <LordAro> D:
18:30:59  <LordAro> what does it use currently?
18:31:10  <frosch123> mysql
18:31:23  <frosch123> like everything old :p
18:31:49  <LordAro> :p
18:31:53  <Eddi|zuHause> nosql!
18:32:03  <Eddi|zuHause> (i don't even know what that does)
18:32:23  <LordAro> frosch123: doesn't seem too difficult ;) http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Converting_from_other_Databases_to_PostgreSQL#MySQL
18:32:46  <frosch123> linux, apache, mysql, php,... all the 90's :p
18:33:53  <planetmaker> LordAro, that doesn't convert tha application(s) using the DB
18:34:09  <LordAro> true ;)
18:34:21  <frosch123> LordAro: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/extra/masterserver_updater/docs/mysql-database-structure.sql
18:34:24  <planetmaker> which is here the actual task at hand :)
18:34:37  <frosch123> i refactored the msu to use a common sql interface
18:34:57  <frosch123> then learnt how non-standard mysql actually is, so all those weird scripts don't work
18:35:17  <frosch123> so, it ends up in a rewrite or so
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18:36:01  <Wolf01> evenink
18:36:43  <glx> frosch123: like every "simple" conversion ;)
18:37:46  <glx> and I guess the original code is full of direct access to DB
18:42:46  <Belugas> and ello
18:45:18  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26144 trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt (2013-12-05 18:45:11 UTC)
18:45:19  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:20  <DorpsGek> slovak - 1 changes by Tinix
18:51:47  <frosch123> Alberth: the patch queue on devs is still the old one
18:55:04  <Alberth> frosch123:  updated, 100 is a first step towards translation string creation
18:55:24  <Alberth> it needs more work
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19:08:39  <Alberth> o/
19:16:43  <andythenorth> hi hi
19:17:17  <frosch123> Alberth: looks fine, i think we just put it into production :)
19:17:27  <frosch123> do you push?
19:17:58  *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:19:26  <Alberth> frosch123: pushed
19:19:35  <frosch123> oh, eints is actually offline
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19:20:10  <andythenorth> 503
19:20:14  <Alberth> except 100, but that code is not being used currently anyway
19:20:23  <frosch123> hmm, yeah, i killed it yesterday when experimenting with the issue reporter
19:20:23  <andythenorth> I noticed earlier today, but wasn't in the channel, sorry :(
19:20:27  <frosch123> but did not restart it :p
19:20:50  <Alberth> a whole day without translations :p
19:22:13  <andythenorth> pingdom it :P
19:22:55  <Alberth> andythenorth: what do you think of #6611 ?
19:23:21  <andythenorth> makes sense
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19:24:06  <andythenorth> I can't remember the current view
19:24:22  <andythenorth> might be that the current situation needs improved, rather than a new view
19:25:19  <Alberth> overview page of a language is not very useful atm
19:25:52  <andythenorth> when it's back online I'll look :)
19:26:10  <Alberth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints/repository/entry/docs/manual/language_overview.png
19:26:12  <planetmaker> this made my day: http://imagebin.org/280737
19:26:57  <andythenorth> planetmaker: you should see our compatibility requirements :(
19:27:01  <andythenorth> we just dropped IE6
19:27:16  <andythenorth> we've delivered training in 'training suites' with IE 5, within the last couple of years :(
19:27:33  <planetmaker> woot?
19:27:34  <Alberth> andythenorth: fire the boss
19:27:50  <planetmaker> :D
19:28:17  <andythenorth> Alberth: yeah, that view has a few reports against it
19:28:20  <andythenorth> it basically sucks :)
19:28:40  <andythenorth> would make much more sense as table, or two columns some other way
19:28:43  <Alberth> planetmaker: the course is about learning linux, you first need to complete the course before you can drive linux safely :)
19:29:01  <planetmaker> :D
19:30:10  <Alberth> two columns would be nice, imho
19:30:40  <planetmaker> george's report makes sense to me, yes
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20:22:56  <andythenorth> so....manual cargodist
20:23:03  <andythenorth> where are packets assigned destinations?
20:23:14  <andythenorth> at originating industry / house?
20:23:20  <andythenorth> or at first station they are delivered to?
20:24:02  <Alberth> afaik manual cdist means "disable cdist", ie "old behaviour"
20:24:21  * Alberth votes for "first station they are delivered to"
20:25:56  <andythenorth> does the code accept voting? :)
20:26:08  <andythenorth> presumably this is already defined somewhere o_O
20:26:46  <Alberth> code is not democratic :p
20:27:06  <andythenorth> one code one vote
20:28:14  <Alberth> I fear we'd be outnumbered by code then :)
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20:51:50  <andythenorth> ugh this mac is slow :(
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21:23:29  <andythenorth> so the rule that train grfs shouldn't contain their railtypes - reasons are...?
21:24:34  <planetmaker> reason is: why should they? Makes it a nightmare also to combine sets
21:24:59  <planetmaker> other reason: why would you need when you can use a RTT easily?
21:25:10  <planetmaker> it's no additional effort in the vehicle set
21:25:11  <andythenorth> (not having tried it yet)
21:25:21  <andythenorth> seems akin to providing industry set and cargos separately
21:26:54  <planetmaker> better make one set which provides everything, houses, industries, vehicles, cargos, terrain
21:27:24  <andythenorth> I guess I just find it weird
21:27:46  <andythenorth> some vehicles won't appear unless player hunts down precisely the right accompanying grf
21:27:47  <planetmaker> so you ask a vehicle manufacturer to also provide the roads or tracks?
21:28:01  <planetmaker> andythenorth, not true. Just set the right cascade on railtypes
21:28:07  <andythenorth> doesn't make any senes
21:28:09  <andythenorth> sense *
21:28:16  <andythenorth> in case of narrow gauge for example
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21:28:18  <andythenorth> or metro
21:28:20  <planetmaker> cascade everything down to one of RAIL, ELRL, MONO and MGLV
21:28:32  <andythenorth> nah, I'd just disable those vehicles instead
21:28:35  <planetmaker> NG perfectly cascades down to RAIL
21:28:41  <andythenorth> they're meaningless for gameplay in that case
21:28:45  <andythenorth> better to remove them
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21:29:04  <andythenorth> * this is just theory right now, I haven't tried it :)
21:29:12  <andythenorth> trying to figure out where to start
21:29:37  <andythenorth> I guess I start by finding grfs that contain ng rails
21:30:58  <andythenorth> is there any way to find that out?
21:31:07  <andythenorth> maybe that strange wiki page?
21:31:30  <planetmaker> maybe, dunno really :)
21:32:11  <andythenorth> http://wiki.openttd.org/GRF_List
21:32:13  <andythenorth> found some
21:32:20  <andythenorth> oh not a railtype grf :(
21:32:36  <andythenorth> banananas has one
21:32:55  <andythenorth> maybe bananas should allow deps
21:45:14  <andythenorth> I am reading https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=59379
21:45:21  <andythenorth> but so far I don't understand :)
21:45:34  <planetmaker> andythenorth, bananas *does* allow deps. Just use musa to set them
21:45:41  <andythenorth> ooh
21:46:14  <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Standardized_Railtype_Scheme <-- read that rather, andythenorth ;)
21:46:21  <planetmaker> same author, better place maybe
21:47:37  <andythenorth> setting axle weights?
21:47:39  <andythenorth> really?
21:47:42  <andythenorth> per vehicle?
21:47:46  <andythenorth> no
21:50:08  <andythenorth> I think I prefer this page :)
21:50:09  <andythenorth> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RailtypeLabels
21:50:12  <andythenorth> much simpler
21:50:43  <planetmaker> that's as chaoitic as cargo labels. No scheme, just everyone's own design
21:50:58  <planetmaker> and you then finally need to support zillions of different shit
21:51:31  <andythenorth> I don't have a problem with cargo labels, they're easy :)
21:51:49  <planetmaker> and different vehicle sets interpreting the labels differently. while foobar's scheme is quite clear...
21:52:37  <andythenorth> ok I'll try reading it again another time
21:52:39  <planetmaker> yeah... cargo labels. FRUT. FRUI, FRVG; STEL, METL, SCRP, COPR, ...
21:52:52  <andythenorth> doesn't matter, they're all supportable :)
21:52:58  <planetmaker> but there it makes more sense than the different RTL which cover the same
21:53:04  <andythenorth> agreed
21:54:33  <andythenorth> that scheme should have reserved a character for "I just don't care about this parameter"
21:54:50  <andythenorth> seems to have done that for speed
21:56:44  * andythenorth wonders where metro is handled
21:58:12  <andythenorth> hmm ok, I concede, it's a raging mess
21:58:25  <andythenorth> I just realised the metro 'support' I added a few weeks ago is pretty incomplete
21:58:46  <andythenorth> it needs to cascade through a load more shit to handle railtype grfs I didn't consider (nor care about) :P
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21:59:19  <andythenorth> I also have zero idea how (for example) nutracks cascades types internally
21:59:44  <andythenorth> maybe it will look better in the morning :)
22:00:14  <planetmaker> I doubt it will
22:00:30  <andythenorth> you can see why people might think "ok I'll just make my own tracks"
22:00:34  <andythenorth> even if separate grf :P
22:00:49  <frosch123> night
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22:00:55  <planetmaker> http://xkcd.com/927/ ?
22:01:00  <andythenorth> standards?
22:01:03  * andythenorth guesses
22:01:05  <planetmaker> ^
22:01:14  <andythenorth> yeah that always comes up for railtypes :)
22:01:16  <planetmaker> good guess :P
22:01:38  <andythenorth> had this discussion before :)
22:01:57  <andythenorth> planetmaker: so if *you* were doing narrow gauge trains, what would you set?
22:02:02  <andythenorth> NGRL, NAAN, some other crap?
22:02:17  <andythenorth> there's nothing complicated like a specific gauge, or two types of NG
22:02:29  <andythenorth> maybe there's electrified in future, maybe
22:02:51  <andythenorth> but it won't care about 25Kv, AC, DC, 3rd rail, 4th rail, etc
22:03:22  <andythenorth> oh, and if there's no suitable track, the trains shouldn't appear ;)
22:03:51  <planetmaker> it doesn't appear automatically, if none of the tracks is available
22:04:05  <andythenorth> so just don't fallback to RAIL or ELRL
22:04:09  <planetmaker> ^
22:04:30  <planetmaker> let's see what I'd do...
22:06:05  <peter1138> Just don't overcomplicate this shit
22:08:38  <andythenorth> trying :)
22:08:43  <andythenorth> once upon a time it was simple
22:08:48  <andythenorth> someone made a ng rails grf
22:08:59  <andythenorth> then there was a big argument with OzTrans about some crap
22:09:05  <andythenorth> and life was simple :)
22:09:20  <DanMacK> lol
22:09:46  * DanMacK had a similar argument with OzTRans
22:09:50  <andythenorth> I remember trying to track down that damn grf to play canset
22:09:56  <andythenorth> pre-bananas
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22:11:27  <planetmaker> NAbN, NAaN, NAAN, NABN, NACN, NADN, NAEN, NGRL, NLOW, NAbE, NAaE, NAAE, NABE, NACE, NADE, NAEE, NBAN, ENLW, ENHI, ELNG
22:11:29  <planetmaker> bah
22:11:51  <planetmaker> leave out everything up to NLOW for electrified
22:11:53  <andythenorth> I mean, I see the point of this :)
22:11:59  <andythenorth> but it's also a little mad
22:12:04  <andythenorth> it's just a train game :)
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22:14:27  <DanMacK> He's a bit controlling
22:14:59  <andythenorth> he does ship stuff though
22:15:04  <andythenorth> can't fault that :P
22:15:41  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I saved your list to a ticket, thanks
22:16:14  <DanMacK> true
22:17:04  <DanMacK> although I've been threatened him a few times to pull my graphics from CanRail
22:18:09  * andythenorth time for bed
22:18:36  <andythenorth> bye
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22:19:04  <planetmaker> DanMacK, I was still hoping for your canadian train graphics to appear in the set we started...
22:20:20  <DanMacK> yeah
22:20:29  <DanMacK> I just hjave so much going on lately... lol
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22:29:17  <Wolf01> 'night all
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22:48:06  <FrenkyPohodar> I wish you a nice evening. You do not know how to start the server (dedicated) to apply the modified settings? (openttd.conf) :-) I set very little boat, so I edited it, but now how to load the new settings, probably something in cmd?
22:49:14  <planetmaker> uh, what?
22:49:38  <planetmaker> while openttd is running, modifications to openttd.cfg are pointless
22:49:53  <planetmaker> they will get overwritten when openttd exits
22:50:07  <planetmaker> to change settings on a running game on a server, you need to use rcon
22:50:15  <planetmaker> rcon password "set settingname value"
22:51:01  <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Console
22:52:17  <FrenkyPohodar> Few ships, so I manually changed the settings in openttd.conf but the game does not know about the change.
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22:53:44  <planetmaker> rcon password "set max_ships value"
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22:54:13  <planetmaker> editing openttd.cfg never affects a savegame or running openttd
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22:57:03  <FrenkyPohodar> so again I can do something new, thank you. :-)
22:57:22  <planetmaker> you're welcome
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