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00:18:18 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 00:26:28 *** djura-san [~djura-san@djura-san.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: zz] 00:29:46 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50-32-37-205.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 00:34:48 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50-32-13-157.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:40:22 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Quit: adf88] 01:05:20 *** Dark-Ace-Z [~BillyMays@50-32-37-85.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 01:07:26 *** krushia [~krushia@saturn.pcsrvc.com] has joined #openttd 01:08:18 <krushia> are there any fun features in trunk that aren't in 1.3.3? 01:09:25 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50-32-41-214.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 01:11:08 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50-32-37-205.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 01:13:08 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@irc.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 01:14:26 *** Dark-Ace-Z [~BillyMays@50-32-37-85.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:15:48 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:56 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:22:15 <krushia> Eddi|zuHause: like? 01:26:46 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-123-207-59.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #openttd 01:30:22 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-53.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:31:12 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:51:22 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has joined #openttd 01:51:24 *** roadt_ [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has joined #openttd 01:53:36 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:54:19 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-123-207-59.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:59:42 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.40.3.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:21:40 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has joined #openttd 02:28:20 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:34:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A4DA.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:57:49 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-123-207-59.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #openttd 03:47:45 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:48:12 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has joined #openttd 04:16:05 *** Hazzard [~oftc-webi@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:20:43 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has joined #openttd 04:26:57 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:11:37 *** lugo [lugo@000189e6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:14:31 *** lugo [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has joined #openttd 05:29:02 *** Super_Random [~kvirc@75-102-176-79.d2.itctel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:53:35 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.113.95.245] has quit [Quit: When I come back I want to see you using the AdiIRC! [www.adiirc.com]] 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4533.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66646.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:04:50 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:05:14 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has joined #openttd 06:24:25 *** Pecio [~fgh@acdm133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 06:29:01 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-123-207-59.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:35:20 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.80.56] has joined #openttd 06:42:06 *** roadt_ [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:42:16 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:42:26 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.80.56] has joined #openttd 07:01:54 *** Progman [~progman@p57A191C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:34:31 *** Gethiox3 [~gethiox@actk12.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 08:40:15 *** Gethiox2 [~gethiox@acte90.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:42:01 *** Gethiox3 is now known as Gethiox 09:00:33 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 09:24:25 <George> Good morning. 09:24:49 <George> Can anyone tell me what tracker does devzone use? 09:27:17 <planetmaker> DevZone uses Redmine 09:27:24 <planetmaker> hello George :) 09:30:49 <Xaroth|Work> o/ planetmaker 09:30:54 <Xaroth|Work> did you get my spam from last night? 09:31:43 <planetmaker> hey Xaroth yeah, just reading back now. Sounds interesting speed gain 09:33:15 *** Pecio [~fgh@acdm133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 09:36:32 <Xaroth|Work> pypy gives a really nice speed gain most of the time, it's just a pita to get working 09:37:09 <planetmaker> I never used it. What's the pitfalls? 09:37:28 <Xaroth|Work> er, basically it installs as if it's a different python version 09:37:56 <Xaroth|Work> but libraries with scripts (i.e. easy_install) aren't always aware 09:38:06 <Xaroth|Work> so they override your system's version to only use pypy 09:38:12 <Xaroth|Work> which is annoying if you want to run it side-by-side 09:39:10 <Xaroth|Work> ofcourse, that's mainly only setting-up issues 09:39:29 <Xaroth|Work> once the libraries are installed (and the scripts fixed to remain using python), you're fine 09:39:53 <planetmaker> I see. 09:40:07 <Xaroth|Work> you can then run nmlc's script through pypy, rather than through python (so instead of /usr/local/lib/nmlc <args> you run pypy /usr/local/lib/nmlc <args> ) 09:40:22 <Xaroth|Work> there's only 1 pitfall 09:40:26 <planetmaker> sounds quite annoying but can be handled 09:40:27 <Xaroth|Work> that I can see at this point 09:40:48 <Xaroth|Work> binary output differs (but same in size) between pypy and python2.7 09:41:01 <Xaroth|Work> I -think- that's due to a tuple or dict being iterated upon 09:41:03 <planetmaker> that's easy enough done by providing NML=pypy /path/to/nmlc on Makefile command line 09:41:35 <Xaroth|Work> and those aren't fixed-order (where list and ordereddict are) 09:41:56 <planetmaker> Output being different... well.... yeah, might explain it. As long as the effective grf result ingame isn't different :) 09:42:13 <Xaroth|Work> well 09:42:15 <Xaroth|Work> the md5 differs 09:42:40 <Xaroth|Work> so firs compiled with python 2.7 will yield a different hash than firs compiled with pypy 09:43:40 <planetmaker> so does FIRS when compiled with nmlc version X vs. nmlc version Y 09:45:31 <Xaroth|Work> fair enough then 09:51:48 <Xaroth|Work> if you want me to do a few more timing runs, lemme know. 09:57:10 <planetmaker> thanks :) 09:59:23 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.97.20] has joined #openttd 10:05:00 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-179-103-164.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:06:02 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:17:44 <peter1138> Eh, same nmlc version should give the same output. 10:24:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 10:25:11 <planetmaker> you might read again, peter1138 ;) 10:27:15 *** Virtual-- [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has joined #openttd 10:29:04 *** Pecio [~fgh@acdm133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 10:30:02 <andythenorth> Xaroth|Work: presumably you can virtualenv pypy same as any other python version? 10:31:31 <Xaroth|Work> should work 10:31:43 <Xaroth|Work> I installed my version globally 10:31:51 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> magnet.oftc.net quits: DarkAceZ, @planetmaker, Virtual-, Osai, Elukka, V453000 10:31:56 <Xaroth|Work> was quite pleased with the speed increase 10:32:38 <andythenorth> I guess I should find a build of pypy :P 10:33:26 <andythenorth> hmm the python buildout can do it 10:33:53 *** waffle is now known as dotwaffle 10:34:22 <Xaroth|Work> if you're running ubuntu, there's a PPA for it 10:34:25 <Xaroth|Work> works like a charm 10:34:27 *** Osai [~Osai@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 10:34:30 <andythenorth> OS X 10:34:33 <Xaroth|Work> ah 10:34:41 <andythenorth> I'll figure it out later 10:34:50 <Xaroth|Work> you'll want 2.2.1 btw 10:35:00 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 10:35:00 *** Netsplit over, joins: V453000, planetmaker 10:35:00 <Xaroth|Work> 1.8 series doesn't work well with Pillow 10:40:49 <peter1138> planetmaker, I read that different versions give different output (obviously fine) but that when the difference is python 2.7 vs pypy (no nmlc version difference specified) it differs also. 10:42:08 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50-32-41-214.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 10:44:42 <Xaroth|Work> peter1138: correct 10:44:56 <Xaroth|Work> pypy output != py2.7 output 10:56:17 <planetmaker> peter1138, yeah, but I'm not too concerned as indeed automatic ordering is done which can be done one way or another. Or real sprites aranged one way or another. 10:57:51 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 11:01:13 <peter1138> different output from same version makes unittesting... well... pointless 11:02:42 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 11:05:05 <planetmaker> you use a different compiler then effectively. So that's kinda expected, no? 11:05:30 <planetmaker> Different optimizations 11:06:02 <planetmaker> the interesting question will be whether the regression tests nml ships with - they need to work regardless 11:07:11 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:07:14 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 11:07:20 <Alberth> moin 11:07:41 <planetmaker> hi :) 11:08:55 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:09:30 *** guru3_ [~guru3@90-230-86-71-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:13:53 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: if you point me in the right direction I can have my compile box run those tests on pypy? 11:14:01 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> magnet.oftc.net quits: @Alberth 11:14:40 <planetmaker> Xaroth, checkout nml. cd regressions. run make 11:14:50 <Xaroth|Work> rgr 11:14:53 *** Netsplit over, joins: @Alberth 11:14:53 <planetmaker> or just run 'make regressions' might also work 11:14:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v Alberth] by ChanServ 11:15:13 <planetmaker> make regression 11:15:19 <planetmaker> just in main nml dir 11:15:30 <Xaroth|Work> now to force pypy, hm 11:19:27 <Xaroth|Work> so far so good 11:20:31 <Xaroth|Work> all 30 tests done 11:20:37 <Xaroth|Work> no warnings/error/whatever 11:22:01 *** Twofish [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:28:20 *** |2rB [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:28:56 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 11:32:31 *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> magnet.oftc.net quits: Twofish, @Alberth 11:38:39 *** Netsplit over, joins: @Alberth 11:59:25 <planetmaker> so that's good :) 11:59:38 <planetmaker> The crucial things are the same then :) 12:07:02 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:12:46 *** TheMask96 [martijn@89.104.166.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:18:19 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 12:43:42 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6C8DF.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:51:41 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:53:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:03:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:19:47 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@68.123.207.59] has joined #openttd 13:21:47 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:23:40 *** Virtual-- [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:02 *** Virtual-- [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has joined #openttd 13:31:47 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:36:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:37:53 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-53.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 13:54:03 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:54:12 *** Pecio [~fgh@acdm133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 13:54:31 *** |2rB [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. (Hobbes, Calvin and H] 13:58:37 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 14:08:53 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 14:13:17 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:19:50 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has joined #openttd 14:28:28 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 14:39:47 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:41:35 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:50:45 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:53:10 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50-32-53-204.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 15:58:10 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50-32-41-214.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:09:11 *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ 16:13:09 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.80.56] has quit [Quit: æ犻] 16:17:52 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:50 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:21:23 *** Belugas [~belugas@00011985.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:23:06 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:23:58 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50-32-53-204.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:24:07 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:27:38 *** TheMask96 [martijn@89.104.166.237] has joined #openttd 16:53:38 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50-32-53-204.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 17:04:52 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@68.123.207.59] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:21:08 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.80.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:25:25 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0138ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:30:31 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.113.95.245] has joined #openttd 17:58:23 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:58:26 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 18:01:37 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:01:40 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:04:33 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-95-136.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:08:22 *** Arr`Gone is now known as Arrgh 18:10:06 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-40-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 18:14:31 *** Neighbour [~neighbour@82.197.216.170] has joined #openttd 18:15:48 <Neighbour> so I just compiled a dedicated server with the daylength patch and now i can't join it ("Could not load savegame" on client)..what's wrong? 18:16:08 <Neighbour> (server on debian, client on win7 x64) 18:16:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you must use the exact same patch on both client and server 18:16:41 <Neighbour> ah, that would explain it :) 18:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and the location of the config file must be writable 18:16:56 <Neighbour> the client is unpatched, so that must be it 18:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> also you violated the versioning which clearly must state that the version has modifications 18:18:17 <Neighbour> ? 18:18:41 <Alberth> you return the wrong version number to the client 18:18:50 <Neighbour> yes, but nothing in the game told me that 18:18:52 <Alberth> or it would not even attempt to connect 18:19:00 <Neighbour> nothing in the debug log of the server either (-d 9) 18:19:05 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26161 trunk/src/newgrf_storage.h (2013-12-16 18:18:58 UTC) 18:19:06 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5830] (r22567) (r25956-ish): Backup data of altered persistent storage arrays was freed twice. 18:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause> your compile is wrong 18:19:44 <Neighbour> i just followed the readme...how could that be wrong? 18:20:03 <Alberth> I doubt the readme covers custom patching :) 18:20:21 <Neighbour> btw, the configure-script should also check for the presence of pkg-config before using it 18:21:00 <Neighbour> stuff failed in the configure script, it claimed because libraries were missing, but that wasn't the case (library presence is checked using pkg-config, which was actually missing) 18:21:37 <Alberth> if you compile from within a source checkout, the build will change the program name to state you're made changes to the source 18:22:11 <Neighbour> ah, that could be the difference...i didn't compile from a source checkout, just from the downloaded source .gz 18:22:24 *** gynter [gynter@kits.ee] has left #openttd [] 18:25:43 <Neighbour> thanks :) 18:29:00 *** Arrgh [~alex@S01064ce676224df4.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:44:54 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 18:45:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26162 trunk/src/lang/thai.txt (2013-12-16 18:45:08 UTC) 18:45:16 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:17 <DorpsGek> thai - 1 changes by nirakanz 18:47:31 *** Pauli [~oftc-webi@AMontsouris-156-1-141-178.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:47:34 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3B07.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:47:38 <Pauli> Servus 19:12:28 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.230] has joined #openttd 19:12:31 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 19:16:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:22:49 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host58-55-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:23:32 <Wolf01> hello o/ 19:33:19 <andythenorth> lo Wolf01 19:45:52 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: got pypy working yet? :P 19:46:53 <andythenorth> nah 19:46:56 <andythenorth> didn't try yet 19:47:03 <andythenorth> too busy watching slow compiles 19:47:10 <andythenorth> where's that xkcd strip? 19:47:44 * Alberth is watching slow fish ships :) 19:48:07 <andythenorth> o_O 19:48:18 <andythenorth> there's a parameter for that :P 19:49:28 <Alberth> oh, it's even squid alpha 1 :) 19:49:44 <Alberth> but it's set to "ideal", cannot be better right? :) 19:49:55 <andythenorth> he he 19:50:07 <andythenorth> Alberth: at least try the latest version :( 19:50:14 <andythenorth> it will entirely break your savegame 19:50:26 <andythenorth> but what's a savegame loss between friends? :P 19:50:42 <Alberth> trying to connect firs industries, but there are too many, and too diverse cargoes :p 19:51:07 <andythenorth> Alberth: which economy? 19:51:40 <Alberth> firs economy 19:52:13 <Alberth> maybe have a simpler default? 19:53:41 <Alberth> time tabling of ships works nicely to get a regular service :) 19:54:21 <Alberth> also, you can use fishing grounds as nodes in the cdist network to distribute fish 19:54:51 <andythenorth> yes 19:54:59 <andythenorth> I am wondering about a simpler default FIRS 19:56:01 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 19:56:49 <Alberth> if you're considering playing with nuts, the PURR tracks are a bit tooo colourful 20:01:02 <andythenorth> Alberth: tried a FIRS basic economy ever? o_O 20:05:34 <Alberth> I think I did 20:06:00 <andythenorth> definitely more relaxing 20:06:18 <Alberth> the tropical one iirc 20:07:22 <andythenorth> afaict, about 24 cargos and 24 industries is the max sane amount for even a complex game 20:07:31 <andythenorth> and the basic ones are about 16 and 16 20:07:51 <Alberth> definitely, but these things just happen; it's hard to get all grfs and all parameters right for a game 20:08:23 <andythenorth> isn't it :) 20:08:44 <andythenorth> so hard for example, that I add grfs or change settings on every game I play :) 20:09:24 <andythenorth> sometimes I wonder about packaging grfs into packs 20:09:45 <andythenorth> thereby ensuring (for example) that vehicles are provided for the cargos in an industry grf 20:09:53 <Alberth> I was so happy I had added a tram grf, only to find it only carries pax :p 20:09:55 <andythenorth> and providing settings like 'harder' and 'easier' 20:10:18 <andythenorth> he he :) 20:10:33 <Alberth> thus making andy-style getting grain from farms impossible :) 20:10:42 <andythenorth> just add HEQS :P 20:10:50 <andythenorth> probably nothing goes wrong :P 20:11:05 <andythenorth> adding is usually safe 20:11:47 <Alberth> oh, either I live without it, or I start a new game :) 20:11:55 <Alberth> in this case, trucks worked too :) 20:12:36 <andythenorth> I wish I could think of a solution to this :) 20:12:40 <andythenorth> on the one hand choice is good 20:12:51 <andythenorth> on the other sane choices require knowledge and a good memory :P 20:13:22 <Alberth> you want some compose assistance 20:14:16 <Alberth> "you added non-standard cargoes, should I add foo grf as well?" 20:15:03 *** Pauli [~oftc-webi@AMontsouris-156-1-141-178.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:15:11 <Alberth> [x] use trams for industrial cargoes 20:16:00 <Alberth> [x] always use newest grf 20:16:38 <Alberth> [ ] add scenery for harbours 20:16:59 <andythenorth> something like that 20:17:13 <andythenorth> or express dependencies or something 20:17:48 <andythenorth> I wondered if new scenario format could be used as packaging 20:18:03 <Alberth> you need some "provides" or "supports" dependencies 20:19:28 <Alberth> not in its current form, as it ties the setup to that scenario then 20:20:11 <Alberth> I am not even sure it has newgrf support, but if it has, it's probably not much more than a simple list 20:20:39 <andythenorth> is it a similar problem to ports trees? 20:20:56 <Alberth> ? 20:22:02 <Alberth> I have a similar problem with save games. I have a bunch of them at the disk, and the name indicates which ones belong together, and the game date, but it's impossible to find eg the one with firs basic economy 20:22:28 <Alberth> or what they were about 20:22:44 <Alberth> I always have to load one of them before I remember 20:23:22 <Alberth> saving a thumbnail in the game would be so useful here :p 20:24:00 <andythenorth> screenshot preview? 20:24:18 <Alberth> something like that 20:24:26 <andythenorth> I found a nice quote the other day, about the illusion of big features versus removing all the small limitations 20:24:31 <andythenorth> limitations / irritations 20:24:38 <andythenorth> can't find it now, but nvm 20:24:49 <andythenorth> pinning the window size is my favourite feature this year I think :) 20:24:51 <Alberth> I can imagine it :) 20:25:18 <andythenorth> big features just add more new places to be irritated :) 20:25:54 <Alberth> sure, but on the other hand, you cannot add eg cdist by doing small steps 20:26:11 <andythenorth> indeed 20:27:01 <Alberth> it seems you need big features to open up new areas 20:27:19 <andythenorth> agreed 20:27:27 <andythenorth> I think there's somehow a diminishing return on them somewhere 20:27:28 <Alberth> but I agree polishing the user experience is also worth a lot 20:28:45 <Alberth> perhaps integrating a big features in the other game play makes it increasingly harder to add new big features? 20:29:10 <andythenorth> I think so 20:29:25 <andythenorth> that's what I've found in other places 20:29:33 <andythenorth> more dimensions to consider 20:29:37 <Alberth> if you drop a new piece of functionality in the middle, everything has to shift itself into a new place 20:29:59 <Alberth> and re-think how they relate to the new feature and each other 20:30:06 <andythenorth> unless it's totally orthogonal 20:30:25 <andythenorth> anyway, we might have a new FIRS for christmas :) 20:30:43 <Alberth> imo it hardly ever is completely orthogonal 20:31:09 <Alberth> or it somewhat means you're adding a new feature not related to all existing features :) 20:31:15 <andythenorth> agree 20:31:31 <Alberth> :o new firs 20:31:46 <Alberth> what have you been cooking? :) 20:32:19 <andythenorth> new economy 20:32:27 <andythenorth> started in June 20:32:35 <andythenorth> had it 90% done by September 20:32:40 <andythenorth> been trying to find time to finish it :) 20:32:54 <Alberth> always a hard problem :) 20:33:29 <andythenorth> specially if you start a train set :P 20:34:16 <Alberth> I tend to extend eints in such cases :) 20:35:27 *** DanMacK [~63f9c362@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 20:35:51 <andythenorth> lo DabuYu 20:35:53 <andythenorth> oops 20:35:56 <andythenorth> lo DanMacK sorry :) 20:37:30 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:47:30 <DanMacK> lol, hey 21:12:16 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:14 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 21:28:00 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-40-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:15 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:42:45 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 21:49:43 <frosch123> night 21:49:46 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0138ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:13:52 * andythenorth bed 22:14:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 22:14:38 *** DanMacK [~63f9c362@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:21:36 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:29:57 <Neighbour> is there a working daylength patch? 22:31:45 <Neighbour> because the daylength patch (01 and 02) from http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=46399&start=0 gives an assertion failure with the current build 22:32:50 <Taede> don't think there are any working with current trunk revisions 22:34:32 <Taede> are you using the binaries from that thread, or are you compiling your own? 22:34:57 <Neighbour> compiling my own, since i want to run a dedicated server and have a few friends join the game 22:35:07 *** Super_Random [~kvirc@75-102-176-79.d2.itctel.com] has joined #openttd 22:36:02 <Taede> if you're dead set on daylenght, i'd advise using the trunk version reported in that same thread 22:36:14 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:36:52 <Taede> or find a patch-pack which may be based on a more recent version (though i think a lot of them are behind a significant bit as well) 22:37:23 <Neighbour> i was looking for a way to make a single game last weeks (real time) 22:37:23 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3B07.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 22:40:54 <Taede> best you can do with current trunk is to set min_clients to 1 (so the game is paused unless theres at least one player in a company), and maybe using vehicle sets that have a wider range of introduction dates 22:51:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Neighbour: i had a "hotfix" for the asserition somewhere 22:53:15 <Neighbour> Eddi|zuHause: sounds interesting...still have it? :) 22:57:32 <Eddi|zuHause> [Mittwoch, 1. Mai 2013] [20:42:32] <Eddi|zuHause> hm, this is totally awkward, but i just put "if (_date_daylength_factor == 0) _date_daylength_factor = 1;" into "MakeNewgameSettingsLive()" now 23:01:30 <Neighbour> Eddi|zuHause: which file is that? MakeNewgameSettingsLive() exists in 3 cpp files 23:01:57 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:01:58 <Neighbour> oh, nm...2 extern declarations 23:02:14 <Eddi|zuHause> there should only be one definition 23:04:07 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 23:12:46 <Neighbour> Eddi|zuHause: yep, that works 23:40:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A191C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:03 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:46:11 <Wolf01> 'night 23:46:15 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:46:57 *** Lord_Aro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-53.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:53:28 <Neighbour> Taede: which setting is min_clients in the .cfg? and which section does it go in? (it's not there by default and the wiki doesn't say) 23:53:35 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-53.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]