Log for #openttd on 8th January 2014:
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08:24:27  <dihedral> greetings - and a (belated) happy new year
08:24:45  <Xaroth|Work> you too dih
08:24:52  <__ln__> 2014?
08:25:17  <dihedral> yes __ln__
08:25:31  <__ln__> not that much belated then
08:25:31  <dihedral> you seem to have aged ;-)
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09:03:32  <planetmaker> happy new year to you, too, dihedral :)
09:04:21  <dihedral> hey pm :-)
09:04:24  <dihedral> how are you?
09:04:50  <planetmaker> fine, thanks :) I hope, you, too?
09:04:56  <V453000> \o/ happy stuff dih
09:05:24  <__ln__>
09:15:45  <NGC3982> Oculust Rift sounds like a spell in Final Fantasy.
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09:29:30  <dihedral> everything is great here, just loads of work
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09:31:24  <peter1139> This coffee smells of burned-out scalextric motors
09:31:43  <LordAro> yummy
09:33:24  <NGC3982> That sounds fantastic.
09:33:31  <peter1139> I'm gonna tip it :S
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11:35:07  <Burty> Are people all dead on the forums these days? i'm sure they used to be really active in the OTTD section
11:36:06  <Xaroth|Work> probably at work
11:36:29  <planetmaker> forums are to my experience still quite lively
11:37:56  <Flygon> Ah, that reminds me
11:38:01  <planetmaker> but I don't get why you make another posting in the suggestions forum, Burty
11:38:02  <Flygon> I 100% forgot to reopen the forums tab
11:38:03  <Flygon> Y'know
11:38:11  <Flygon> I always liked seeing people screenshot their networks
11:38:15  <Flygon> But then I look at my netowkr
11:38:19  <planetmaker> on the same topic as you started in the development one
11:38:20  <Flygon> And I think "What a piece of junk"
11:38:34  <Flygon> But then I realize
11:38:41  <Flygon> People might think of their networks the same way?
11:38:44  <Flygon> Really, it's confusing
11:38:55  <Flygon> Ultimately
11:38:56  <planetmaker> depends on what you aim for, Flygon :)
11:38:58  <Flygon> The point is
11:39:04  <Flygon> The Thunderbirds theme is stuck in my head
11:39:13  <Flygon> And whoever was handling the strings was doing them really well
11:39:48  <Flygon> planetmaker: Given I'm doing that Europe scenario the German made, people would be complaining at the convoluted urban sprawl Helsinki became
11:40:02  <Flygon> OTTD really needs slower growth settings than "Slow", but not quite "None" @_@
11:40:14  <Burty> planetmaker I made one in the suggestions forum to get more of a discussion going on "more" to do with the shares and try to keep the dev one more code/patch related. Also I know some players tend to look at the Suggestions more than development so was hoping that I'd get player ideas
11:40:16  <Flygon> Even better, I should become unlazy and learn to do something about that personally :P
11:48:41  <Flygon> I'm gonna ask a dumb question
11:48:50  <Flygon> Does the weight factor for freight affect passengers too?
11:54:20  <Burty> I would believe (in theory) it should
11:54:39  <Pinkbeast> Flygon: No. (90% sure).
11:54:45  <Flygon> Hmm
11:54:46  <Flygon> Alright
11:55:01  <planetmaker> I think it does not. But I only play with that on extremely rare occasions
11:55:44  <Flygon> There's no way to universally slow down the acceleration of the trains then?
11:55:59  <Flygon> Because it's a tad jarring seeing DMU's hitting their top speed while segments are still inside the station
11:56:11  <Burty> This might sound daft: is it best to put my patch on both FS and TT net? If(FS == true) shall I add/revive TheJoshs old FS ticket with the updated patch?
11:56:41  <Pinkbeast> Flygon: Time and distance scales in OTTD are a Bit Odd but you could use NuTracks and build stations from low speed tracks.
11:57:08  <Flygon> Hmm
11:57:14  <Flygon> Yeah, I am aware of the scales
11:57:36  <Flygon> The game I'm in, it's a bit late to pull such shenanigans, anyway (using FRISS)... that, and with some of the station layouts I have
11:57:53  <Flygon> The pathfinder would get extremely confused if there was multiple track speeds
11:57:55  <Flygon> Soooo... yeah
11:58:00  <Flygon> Either way, thanks for the help
11:58:22  <Flygon> It'd be neat if there was a setting to universally slow down acceleration  (without affecting hill climbing ability), either way :)
11:58:52  <Pinkbeast> I don't believe there is (and the freight multiplier wouldn't do it because pax are a tiny proportion of train weight).
11:59:07  <Flygon> (obviously trains that have low tractive effort that hit a hill at low speed would be completely screwed if they haven't accelerated fast enough compared to a 'normal' game, but... you get my point)
11:59:23  <Flygon> Freight multiplier also affects hill climbing ability
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12:00:14  <Pinkbeast> Flygon: I'm just referring back to the question you originally asked. If freight multiplier did affect pax, it wouldn't make a lot of difference.
12:00:26  <Flygon> Oh! Right
12:00:31  <Flygon> I forgot I asked that question >_<"
12:00:32  <Flygon> Sorry!
12:00:44  <Flygon> I have a very single tracked mind, sorry
12:01:04  <Flygon> I have less tracks in my mind than an Australian railway line
12:01:05  <Pinkbeast> Well, pass the staff to another thought, then. :-)
12:01:22  <Flygon> Eh. We abolished staff operation here... last year
12:01:28  <Flygon> On suburban EMU services
12:01:34  <Flygon> ...we're a bit behind the times :|
12:01:54  <Pinkbeast> There's still plenty of electronic token operation here, but I don't think any staffs out of preservation.
12:02:11  <Flygon> I meant actual physical staffs
12:02:26  <Flygon> The rest of the network had automatic block systems going on
12:02:34  <Flygon> The Hurstbridge line is just unusual
12:02:39  <Pinkbeast> Ah, "electronic" token has a physical token.
12:03:48  <Flygon> Yeah, we got rid of electronic token before we got rid of staff working
12:04:30  <Flygon> What makes this even more confusing was that the physical staff working remained, even when all the signals became remotely controlled
12:05:00  <Flygon> Optical signalling, mind
12:05:17  <Pinkbeast> Er. For single-line working I hope that having _a_ physical object will remain the case indefinitely.
12:05:43  <Flygon> Yeah, Hurstbridge is single track
12:06:02  <Flygon> I'm expecting it to become double track within 50 years
12:06:12  <Flygon> Dunno about Europe, but in Australia, 50 years is bloody fast
12:06:19  <Flygon> Also, in Australia, bloody is a swear word
12:06:27  <Flygon> Suck it up, ya bloody Brits :D
12:06:31  <Flygon> isn't
12:06:34  <Flygon> It ISN'T a swear word
12:06:39  <Flygon> My god, how did I stuff that up
12:06:42  * Flygon cowers in shame
12:09:22  <Pinkbeast> It's barely a swearword here.
12:10:08  <Flygon> Oh!
12:10:27  <Flygon> ...why were those "Where the Bloody Hell Are You" ads controversial, then?
12:11:02  <Pinkbeast> It _is_ one, and "hell" is slightly ruder, and some people will complain about anything.
12:11:18  <Pinkbeast> And... OK, I don't watch TV, but I have no memory of any such controversy.
12:12:39  * Pinkbeast reads. The authorities can be a bit po-faced about that sort of thing.
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12:22:26  <Flygon> Hmm
12:22:27  <Flygon> Alright
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18:26:28  <Wolf01> oink
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18:45:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26232 /trunk/src/lang (korean.txt portuguese.txt) (2014-01-08 18:45:14 UTC)
18:45:23  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:24  <DorpsGek> korean - 6 changes by telk5093
18:45:25  <DorpsGek> portuguese - 1 changes by frosch
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19:01:53  <tommerry11> so what are poeple upto?
19:06:16  <Alberth> magic
19:06:32  <Taede> dinner
19:07:32  <tommerry11> oh boy
19:07:47  <tommerry11> alberth can I have some
19:08:14  * Alberth wizards some magic for tommerry11
19:09:35  <tommerry11> oh damn
19:10:01  <Alberth> hmm, I totally forgot what I wanted to do this evening
19:11:35  <tommerry11> so I really can't get the hang of collecting newgrfs
19:12:10  <Alberth> you shouldn't collect them, just download them when needed
19:12:14  <tommerry11> i know
19:12:29  <tommerry11> but like I mean I can't get a set that seem to work well together.
19:13:05  <tommerry11> nieghbours are important is probably my favorite script at the moment
19:13:27  <Alberth> oh, yeah, combining newgrfs is an art :)
19:13:46  <tommerry11> but certain industries cant be transported without other newgrfs and it just gets messy and ughhhhhh
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19:20:36  <Alberth> oh, unexpected challenges :p
19:22:37  <tommerry11> yes
19:22:58  <V453000> nuts unrealistic train set or ogfx+trains can always transport all cargoes :P
19:32:23  <Alberth> s/all/all types of/  :)
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19:50:23  <tommerry11> yeah but i dont want to cheat, i just want a working game that isnt default :P
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20:44:41  <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
20:44:41  <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 5 hours, 44 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: * andythenorth back to work :P
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20:51:11  <andythenorth> someone is wrong on the internet
20:51:12  <andythenorth> again
20:51:17  <Alberth> you call, he appears :)
20:51:46  <Alberth> o/ andy, and DanMacK
20:51:50  <andythenorth> straw poll
20:52:04  <DanMacK> lol
20:52:07  <andythenorth> "kids are getting stupider and less inquisitive": true | false
20:52:08  <andythenorth> ?
20:52:15  <DanMacK> true
20:53:04  <planetmaker> it's going downhill with the youth. Since aristole
20:53:13  <planetmaker> or was it ptolemaios?
20:53:16  <andythenorth> planetmaker: can you find the quote?
20:53:20  <andythenorth> I think there is one :P
20:54:25  <planetmaker> yes, at least one :)
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20:59:42  <planetmaker> I can't decide which :)
21:01:16  <planetmaker>
21:01:20  <planetmaker> socrates ^
21:03:02  <andythenorth> thanks :)
21:03:34  <planetmaker> sadly not the best source. The internet will prove anything ;)
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21:05:24  <planetmaker> irony is that he was found guilty of corrupting the minds of the youth of athens and of impiety and thus sentenced to death ;)
21:05:32  <andythenorth> I fear I may get into a flame war with lego nerds
21:05:53  <planetmaker> don't flame them. Shock-frost them ;)
21:06:23  <planetmaker> then you can easily shovel away the splinters when they fracture
21:06:40  <DanMacK> lol
21:07:34  <andythenorth> sounds like Mortal Kombat
21:08:38  <planetmaker> I likely never played that, unless I played it at a friends place without remembering ;)
21:09:29  <planetmaker> hm, I broke my system... updated some things too much :P
21:10:00  <planetmaker> gimp doesn't complain. Just exits gracefully right after start :P
21:10:10  <Alberth> :)
21:10:20  <andythenorth> planetmaker: your linux, or your OS X?
21:10:24  <planetmaker> linux
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21:10:38  <andythenorth> no advice in that case :)
21:10:49  <planetmaker> I shouldn't mix stable, testing and development repos. I knew that :)
21:11:21  * planetmaker considers giving Fedora a shot
21:14:43  <Alberth> 2 releases a year, a release is maintained for one year
21:14:52  <planetmaker> you use that, do you?
21:14:55  <Alberth> yep
21:15:09  <Alberth> 20MB updates / week or so
21:15:13  <planetmaker> how nicely do updates work?
21:15:22  <planetmaker> from one release to the other?
21:15:53  <Alberth> oh, I tried it a few times, but in the end I always had to start from scratch
21:16:39  <Alberth>  /home at a separate partition, then it's a matter of a few hours
21:16:51  <planetmaker> Yeah, that anyway :)
21:16:52  <Alberth> and then some days installing stuff you're missing :p
21:17:10  <frosch123> some days, yes, but scattered over a year :p
21:17:36  <planetmaker> that's usual anyway... you always install what you miss :)
21:17:58  <Alberth> not really, just the first two/three weeks or so
21:18:18  <planetmaker> hm, I always found some packages I need later
21:18:21  <frosch123> anyway, ottd is the most annoying one
21:18:24  <planetmaker> for whatever reason
21:18:35  <planetmaker> ottd is pretty quick, though it has a few
21:18:38  <frosch123> i used to have binaries of almost all branches
21:18:42  <Alberth> you get bleeding edge, so some times stuff just doesn't work for some time
21:18:50  <frosch123> but now they do not start because of from libs
21:19:01  <frosch123> and they all do no longer compile with current compiler
21:19:01  <planetmaker> ah, yes
21:19:08  <planetmaker> that you mean
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21:19:41  <andythenorth> so this update stuff isn't a solved problem? :o
21:19:42  <planetmaker> well, I've a new and big HDD to spoil. So easy to have two systems. One toy, one 'work'
21:19:47  <andythenorth> I thought it was just an Apple issue
21:20:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: usually stuff changes so much that it is not worth migrating
21:20:12  <andythenorth> oh
21:20:13  <frosch123> keep /home, do rest from scratch
21:20:32  <planetmaker> andythenorth, the difference is that you usually just do apt-get install blah
21:20:33  <andythenorth> I have somewhat been given different propaganda by some other people
21:20:34  <frosch123> if you have complicated setups, then put them into a vm
21:20:37  <planetmaker> or yum install blah
21:20:41  <planetmaker> which apple doesn't have
21:20:50  <planetmaker> (unless you use macports or brew or so)
21:20:54  <frosch123> actually the amount of vms i have is skyrocketing
21:20:56  <andythenorth> hrrrrrrrr
21:21:12  <andythenorth> VMs are for windows :P
21:21:18  <frosch123> so, i would recommend for going for a smaller base system, and more vms for special tasks
21:21:19  <planetmaker> no(t only)
21:21:30  <andythenorth> anyone using vagrant?
21:21:33  <andythenorth> just out of interest
21:21:37  <frosch123> why should i mess up my main system just to compile firs?
21:21:44  <planetmaker> he :D
21:21:49  <frosch123> i can just install weird web frameworks in a vm
21:22:30  <andythenorth> I did wonder if we should package some vagrant thing for nml projects
21:22:33  <planetmaker> I think I'll make one system which is experimental and bleeding edge. And one more stable
21:22:47  <planetmaker> the first one for stuff which actually needs that hardware support which might or might not work
21:23:33  <planetmaker> might make sense, andythenorth
21:23:46  <planetmaker> or distributing a virtualbox image for that purpose
21:24:44  <planetmaker> ah, it basically uses that...
21:24:58  <andythenorth> it's some tools around virtual appliance stuff
21:25:04  <andythenorth> I don't actually know the benefit
21:25:12  <andythenorth> just that it has a lot of happy users
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21:30:32  <frosch123> hmm, so i should setup the dev-vm using vagrant
21:30:37  <frosch123> instead of a big image :p
21:31:13  <planetmaker> :D
21:31:37  <frosch123> anyway, i don't get how vagrant can setup a new vm within minutes
21:31:51  <frosch123> or does that refer to a gbit downstream connection?
21:33:13  <andythenorth> dunno :)
21:33:28  <andythenorth> doesn't specify how many minutes
21:33:30  <andythenorth> 180?
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21:36:19  <planetmaker> frosch123, I understand that they mean that you have a base image and only add additional stuff in a vagrant description file.
21:36:23  <planetmaker> That might then be much easier :)
21:37:03  <frosch123> yeah, just opened the "" file in a browser tab
21:37:15  <frosch123> but it is a disk image :p
21:37:45  <planetmaker> yeah
21:37:47  <frosch123> @calc 16383*16*63 / 2048
21:37:47  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 8063.5078125
21:37:56  <planetmaker> some kind of disk image wrapper it seems
21:38:19  <frosch123> so, they have some preinstalled diskimages of popular distros
21:38:31  <frosch123> and then let you specify a script to install more stuff
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21:39:52  <frosch123> "Added boxes can be re-used by multiple projects. Each project uses a box as an initial image to clone from, and never modifies the actual base image. This means that if you have two projects both using the precise32 box we just added, adding files in one guest machine will have no effect on the other machine."
21:40:35  <andythenorth> I never understood the box terminology
21:40:46  <andythenorth> in my world, boxes are metal and say 'Dell' on them
21:40:48  <planetmaker> consider 'box' synonymous for VM
21:43:19  <planetmaker> so basically it would likely work for us, if *we provide a base virtualbox image with the basic openttd and newgrf dev tools. *Add vagrant scripts for particular needs which extend that
21:43:27  <frosch123> looks nice, i think i am going to try that thingie
21:44:05  <frosch123> planetmaker: you would not include the dev tools in the base box
21:44:07  <planetmaker> Actually providing a basic virtualbox image might suit well, so that devzone users find everything pre-installed
21:44:23  <planetmaker> maybe not :)
21:44:24  <frosch123> the basebox is fixed, so it does not contain anything you would want to update, like your own tools
21:44:39  <planetmaker> probably true, yes
21:44:58  <frosch123> so, devzone can have a basebox for vbox, and a vagrant file which installs an up-to-date dev env
21:45:18  <planetmaker> true. One vagrant file for everything would then do the trick
21:45:56  <planetmaker> hm... sounds like something to checkout indeed
21:46:07  <planetmaker> Might ease some support :)
21:49:18  <andythenorth> does it mean developing over an ssh connection?
21:49:21  <andythenorth> might be...interesting :P
21:49:49  <Zuu> IIRC they are based on VirtualBox which means that you can login via X too.
21:49:57  <andythenorth> that was another aspect I didn't understand, so I haven't explore
21:50:01  <andythenorth> explored *
21:50:24  <Zuu> I have a linux VM (in VirtualBox) with graphical login for FreeRCT coding.
21:51:18  <planetmaker> completely different topic: <-- 0AD has pretty nice terrain textures
21:51:31  <Alberth> ssh can do X tunneling just fine
21:52:48  <Alberth> multi-tile terrain? :)
21:53:54  <planetmaker> been pondering NewGRF options or changes to landscape / terrain for some time, yes
21:54:24  <planetmaker> but nothing in detail really. This would already be able to enhance existing ground tiles. But variety there... might be nice
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22:00:32  <frosch123> andythenorth: there are shared folders and sshfs
22:00:58  *** Haube [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:01:50  <andythenorth> oic :)
22:02:44  <andythenorth> oh there's FUSE and such for that
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22:08:52  <andythenorth> hmm
22:08:54  <andythenorth> bed time
22:08:56  <andythenorth> bye
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23:18:24  <Wolf01> 'night all
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