Log for #openttd on 9th January 2014:
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01:32:17  <grepwood> hello everyone
01:32:29  <grepwood> is there a way of measuring frames drawn per second by openttd?
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02:00:12  <Eddi|zuHause> not built in, i believe
02:04:27  <grepwood> that sux
02:06:33  <Eddi|zuHause> well it would be a very boring display, as it would be 33fps constantly, as long as your cpu can keep up
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02:17:26  <grepwood> depends on where you're deploying openttd
02:19:56  <grepwood> it could help benchmark drivers against this game
02:20:42  <Pinkbeast> ... is there any platform on which drawing the display is a significant proportion of the work and likely to take longer than computing the game mechanics?
02:21:21  <Japa_> Pinkbeast, playing on a weak computer connected to a 4k screen
02:21:38  <glx> all drawing is software based relying on OS or SDL
02:21:46  <Pinkbeast> Japa_: Any non-contrived platform, let us say.
02:23:24  <grepwood> yeah, rpi and ps3
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02:24:04  <glx> rpi is limited by cpu
02:24:05  <grepwood> because rsx is off limits on linux and next to nobody knows how to install freebsd on it, the gfx is drawn by CPU
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02:25:15  <grepwood> my quake3 port had maybe 0.5 fps even when it used spes for drawing the 3d, and most gl extensions were missing so artifacts ensued
02:25:36  <glx> basically in openttd all gfx is done via cpu unless the OS uses gpu
02:29:31  <glx> we use a pure software blitter
02:30:02  <glx> recently improved to use SSE3 or SSE4 when available
02:35:21  <grepwood> glx that's interesting
02:35:45  <grepwood> does the code detect whether it can use sse3/4 on its own accord? or is it a compile-time variable?
02:35:55  <glx> well indeed we use many blitters :)
02:40:35  <glx> we check cpuid at runtime
02:44:24  <glx> and availability is also checked at compile time
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02:48:25  <grepwood> cool, I like the latter solution
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02:54:13  <grepwood> hue
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03:10:00  <Eddi|zuHause> most people will never use the sse3/4 blitter, because that one is only used when there is a 32bpp base set in use
03:10:17  <Eddi|zuHause> most people will use a 8bpp base set
03:10:37  <glx> sprite sorter can use SSE4 now too ;)
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09:38:52  <Burty> Is there any way to change a push button text when it's clicked?
09:40:40  <Eddi|zuHause> probably
09:40:48  <Eddi|zuHause> tried the station window?
09:41:52  <Burty> I knew there was a window that did it. I couldn't think (damn work) Thanks Eddi, I'll look at the station and vehicle windows :)
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10:01:14  <dihedral> greetings
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10:05:29  <Xaroth|Work> o/ dih
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10:10:36  <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, \o
10:10:59  <Xaroth|Work> dih: started yet another admin port lib :P
10:11:11  <Xaroth|Work> this one does a bit more tho :P
10:14:22  <dihedral> show me :-)
10:15:41  <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, not interested in helping me?
10:15:54  <planetmaker> Xaroth, yet another? :)
10:16:00  <planetmaker> libottdadmin3 or...?
10:16:07  <dihedral> grapes, joan, ...
10:16:20  <planetmaker> what does it more than libottdadmin(2)?
10:16:49  <dihedral> planetmaker, every piece of software can do with a complete overhaul :-)
10:17:00  <planetmaker> hehe
10:17:16  <planetmaker> and thus become better like Netscape 6 was better than 5? :D
10:17:48  <planetmaker>
10:18:03  <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: I'm a python man :)
10:18:07  <Xaroth|Work>
10:18:20  <Xaroth|Work> the goal is to (eventually) implement all protocols
10:18:32  <Xaroth|Work> already got admin protocol and query protocol implemented
10:19:25  <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, how about integrating jpython :-P
10:19:42  <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: that's like watching the devil hump an angel :P
10:19:48  <dihedral> :-D
10:20:08  <dihedral> perspective defines devil and angel in this case :-D
10:20:11  <Xaroth|Work> however, there's one thing that might help joan
10:20:16  <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: exactly :)
10:20:19  <dihedral> tell me
10:20:32  <Xaroth|Work> libopenttd's packet system can both encode and decode packets of any type
10:20:43  <Xaroth|Work> so we can use each other's libs to verify the working of the protocols
10:20:51  <dihedral> uh :-)
10:21:21  <Xaroth|Work> (I managed to get a VERY crude set-up done where libopenttd was a proxy for libottdadmin2 :P )
10:21:34  <dihedral> hehe
10:22:20  <Xaroth|Work> also, the design of libopenttd is so that it should also be somewhat readable in terms of how the protocol is encoded
10:23:18  <Xaroth|Work> << that should read a lot easier than digging through openttd's netcode to find out what a packet consists of
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10:25:38  <dihedral> the comments in openttd's source code should decribe that very well actually
10:25:52  <planetmaker> Xaroth, what other protocols than admin port?
10:25:55  <dihedral> and if they do not, they should be amended
10:26:00  <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: query
10:26:15  <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: check the example dir, it's basically a server listing script
10:26:18  <dihedral> udp packets - e.g. my php stuff
10:26:31  <Xaroth|Work> yeh
10:26:58  <Xaroth|Work> but, in effect, can also act as if it were a master server, as it can receive the packets as well :)
10:27:37  <Xaroth|Work> if one was mad enough to code it
10:27:56  <dihedral> but for what purpose? :-P
10:28:07  <Xaroth|Work> since when do we need a purpose? :)
10:28:07  <dihedral> why would you want to setup your own master :-P
10:28:22  <peter1139> For when OpenTTD becomes Evil.
10:28:23  <dihedral> well that is true
10:28:31  <Xaroth|Work> I'm just providing the tool to do it, not the reason for it :)
10:28:42  <dihedral> that is only the case though if TrueBrain replaces Rubidium :-P
10:29:00  <dihedral> or __ln__ :-P
10:29:13  <dihedral> or our swiss friend :-D
10:29:17  <dihedral> hihi
10:29:29  <Xaroth|Work> trying to get yourself kicked? :P
10:29:32  * dihedral pokes Ammler
10:29:43  <dihedral> are we not long past that stage?
10:29:48  <Xaroth|Work> true that
10:30:14  <planetmaker> if you are successful in that, dihedral, that'll be his first appearence in a year or so
10:30:21  <planetmaker> (with the poke)
10:30:31  <dihedral> really??
10:30:33  *** mode/#openttd [+o Xaroth|Work] by DorpsGek
10:30:33  <planetmaker> yes
10:30:40  <dihedral> thanks TB
10:30:46  <Xaroth|Work> ooh
10:30:52  <__ln__> @seen Ammler
10:30:52  <DorpsGek> __ln__: Ammler was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 30 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <Ammler> happy crhistmas Eddi :-)
10:31:00  *** mode/#openttd [-o Xaroth|Work] by DorpsGek
10:31:00  <planetmaker> woot?
10:31:05  <dihedral> heh!
10:31:06  <planetmaker> interesting
10:31:09  <Xaroth|Work> hehe
10:31:13  * Xaroth|Work waits for it
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10:31:54  <Eddi|zuHause> but i never got an answer
10:31:58  <Xaroth|Work> ffs
10:32:22  <Xaroth|Work> I shouldn't tease TrueBrain :|
10:32:29  <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, case rested :-P
10:32:41  <Xaroth|Work> I think he wanted me to do his dirty job for him
10:32:49  <Xaroth|Work> then realising i didn't.. took it out on me :(
10:33:31  <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, we should make sure our bots can work together ;-)
10:33:51  <Xaroth|Work> what bot? :P
10:34:07  <dihedral> your py stuff and my java stuff
10:34:10  <Xaroth|Work> ah
10:34:13  <Xaroth|Work> that should be easy
10:34:55  <dihedral> it could be awesome :-)
10:35:36  <Xaroth|Work> if libopenttd can write it, it can read the same format (or should, at least), so it's just a matter of having the systems talk to eachother during a test session
10:36:21  <Xaroth|Work> create a packet, send it to your lib, if it can parse the data, send it straight back, if the decoded data is the same as the sent, it works
10:37:20  <dihedral> i mean - have both connected to the same server ...
10:37:53  <Xaroth|Work> how would that not work?
10:38:03  <dihedral> or to two different servers, but have a same basis for certain operations - e.g. a db
10:38:18  <Xaroth|Work> ah, that bit, er, hmm
10:38:35  <Xaroth|Work> libopenttd is just the implementation; i haven't thought of any real case uses
10:38:43  <dihedral> i would love to implement a bank - cross game finances :-P
10:39:03  <dihedral> different shares stuff, etc.
10:39:09  <Xaroth|Work> heh
10:39:42  <dihedral> stash cash into a 'bank' and get it back in another game :-D
10:39:56  <__ln__> or real-world bank
10:39:59  <dihedral> hehe
10:40:03  <dihedral> stock market :-D
10:40:07  <Xaroth|Work> __ln__: like bitcoins? :p
10:40:20  <__ln__> something like that
10:40:24  <dihedral> or - paypal me 5$ for 500.000$ in game :-D
10:40:32  <dihedral> ok 5m$
10:40:50  <Xaroth|Work> nah, have an in-game market
10:40:58  <Xaroth|Work> where people can auction off their currency
10:41:01  <Xaroth|Work> so others can buy it
10:41:09  <Xaroth|Work> ofcourse I get a nice 5% share of it.
10:41:52  <Xaroth|Work> that would only work with a killer difficulty economy though
10:43:00  <dihedral> aye - e.g. a lovely gs in place
10:44:00  <Xaroth|Work> that would actually be quite funny :o
10:44:14  <Xaroth|Work> might need some tweaking though :P
10:47:01  <dihedral> or create a stock market based on industries and transported goods, companies and their standings in towns, etc.
10:47:22  <dihedral> or if they were caught bribing
10:47:39  <dihedral> well - that actually does influence anyway
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11:26:50  <NGC3982> Morning
11:27:02  <__ln__> hardly
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11:28:07  <NGC3982> T'aint it?
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12:55:55  <Flygon> One thing I hate
12:56:07  <Flygon> Planning a route when there's a lot of scattered cities
12:56:08  <Flygon> :|
12:56:15  <Flygon> OCD is evuul
13:02:33  <Xaroth|Work> how is that OCD?
13:03:41  <Japa_> Xaroth, can't do a straight, efficient, route
13:05:53  <Flygon> Japa_: More to the fact
13:05:56  <Flygon> I want to cover everything
13:06:05  <Flygon> And it makes planning an efficient route a huuuuuuuge PITA
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13:08:08  <LordAro> not really OCD though, is it?
13:08:29  <LordAro> or, it's an extremely mild form of it
13:10:49  <Flygon> I don't know what the right term is
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13:12:18  <LordAro> "picky" :p
13:12:30  <LordAro> or, "nOCD" as i've seen used
13:13:28  <V453000> make the towns grow over the whole area so they touch each other, done
13:13:29  <V453000> eazy
13:13:56  <Flygon> That just means that it's even harder to service individual towns/suburbs
13:15:19  <Pinkbeast> Implement a proper underground view so the towns aren't in the way so much HO HO
13:16:15  <Flygon> Yes, but that'd need actual effort :P
13:16:26  <V453000> well the idea is that you transfer all of the passengers from all of those towns to one large intercity terminal, which is connected to another intercity terminal connected to another town cluster
13:16:53  <Flygon> V453000: The issue with that is, is that it's somewhat inefficient
13:17:01  <V453000> inefficient?
13:17:02  <Flygon> And can create gigantic chokepoints
13:17:14  <V453000> sounds quite systematic to me
13:17:22  <Pinkbeast> ... and assumes you don't get cognitive dissonance from the pre-cargod*st situation where passengers have no volition
13:17:25  <Flygon> You end up with passengers travelling longer distances to go somewhere closeby
13:17:35  <V453000> oh cargodist
13:17:38  <Flygon> And yeah, I'm using cargodist
13:17:40  <V453000> :D:D:D:D enough said
13:18:08  <Flygon> And on top of that, I actually did have some interchanges built early on
13:18:13  <Flygon> But it's really biting my ass now
13:18:55  <Flygon> Partially because it's not RORO based, and partially because the pathfinder is an idiot and keeps switching to the correct side of the track far ahead enough to block other trains
13:18:59  <Flygon> Which's stupid
13:19:31  <V453000> pathfinder is consistent, perhaps you built it badly in order to do what you want
13:21:52  <Flygon> The hope here is
13:22:32  <Flygon> Is that the metro systems and trams in Helsinki can spread the passenger load for the radial 'HST' line across the Helsinki, Riihimaki, Lahti, and Helsinki East statons
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13:22:39  <Flygon> ...the urban sprawl grew a tad much
13:23:03  <V453000> well perhaps it is worth it making some bridges there so that there are less crossings
13:23:26  <V453000> obviously the pathfinder cant do much magic in that clutter
13:23:27  <Flygon> I'd consider it if it weren't for space constraints
13:23:42  <V453000> there is way enough space for that
13:23:58  <Flygon> You are clearly a far more efficient man than I am
13:24:07  <V453000> perhaps
13:24:14  <Flygon> Australia's not known for it's trains :P
13:24:17  <V453000> but that doesnt matter :)
13:24:25  <V453000> australia has nothing to do with it :)
13:24:35  <Flygon> True
13:25:02  <Flygon> Unbelievably
13:25:17  <Flygon> I just fixed one of the pathfinder jams by building 2 tiles of track
13:27:20  <Aristide> o/
13:27:31  <Aristide> I have take a Hybrid bus today \o/
13:27:38  <Flygon> Heya Aristide!
13:27:44  <Aristide> Hi Flygon o/
13:27:46  <Flygon> Lemme guess
13:27:50  <Flygon> It's gas powered too? D:
13:27:56  <Flygon> Gas powered buses scare me D:
13:28:05  <Aristide> :o
13:28:09  <Flygon> Maintainence costs.
13:28:10  <Aristide> I don't know xD
13:28:19  <Aristide> 40% more expensive than « normal » bus
13:28:37  <Flygon> And that's why gas is just a shill to appease greenies
13:28:46  <Aristide> Flygon
13:28:54  <Flygon> This is why I voted for the Sex Party, not the Greens :|
13:29:11  <Aristide> xD
13:29:18  <Flygon> It sounds far more risque than it really is
13:30:48  <Aristide> xD
13:32:15  <Flygon> The weird thing is
13:32:34  <Flygon> Is that they're the 2nd most likely party to actually support rail transport here O_o
13:32:55  <Flygon> ...the 1st being the Bullet Train Party
13:33:23  <Aristide> xD
13:53:24  <Aristide> <3
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14:08:19  <Flygon> I'm guessing there's no way to uncap the vehicles per company limits?
14:08:35  <Flygon> I've got enough Trams that I'm hitting over 3,000
14:08:45  <Flygon> And I'm expecting to hit 5,000 before even half the map is done
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14:10:58  <V453000> -> stupidly big map perhaps? (:
14:11:11  <Flygon> That German 2048*2048 Europe scenario
14:11:19  <V453000> exactly what I said
14:11:42  <Flygon> Stupidly big is 8192*8192 :P
14:11:44  <V453000> 256x256 is imo enough for one person, I had 5000 road vehicles on 256x256 without big problems
14:11:53  <V453000> 512x512 is reasonable maximum really
14:12:10  <Flygon> Yes, but it doesn't give you a semi-realistic Europe :P
14:12:24  <Flygon> What's REALLY lagging out the PC is the BOATS
14:12:26  <V453000> why would i need that
14:12:33  <Flygon> Why not?
14:12:38  <Flygon> This's a long term project for me
14:12:45  <V453000> cause the normal generator makes interesting things by itself
14:13:12  <Flygon> I'm an uninteresting man :P
14:14:05  <Pinkbeast> *rolls eyes* maybe Flygon just wants to play in a reasonable facsimile of Europe
14:14:37  <Flygon> I worry about Australia maps
14:14:43  <Flygon> Because...
14:14:55  <Flygon> Where the interesting transport networks are
14:15:13  <Flygon> Are in very dense urban areas that countrywide maps don't show
14:15:29  <Superuser> I thought I was in #osm for a second, lol
14:16:52  <Flygon> OSM are an optometrist company here
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14:46:51  <__ln__> hola Belugas
14:46:57  <Xaroth|Work> o/
14:47:34  <Belugas> Ola __ln__! Como esta?
14:49:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i could correct half a dozen errors in that :)
14:52:40  <__ln__> bien, gracias. estoy esperando a invierno, solamente tenemos lluvia y nubes, ningún nieve
14:56:52  <dihedral> @topic get 5
14:56:52  <DorpsGek> dihedral: English only
14:56:54  <dihedral> :-P
15:02:12  <Eddi|zuHause> "ningún nieve" <-- Belugas would certainly like that :)
15:05:14  <Belugas> yeh Eddi|zuHause!
15:05:45  <Belugas> jmexcuse, dihedral, je parlerai qu'anglais les prochaines fois hahahah!!
15:07:07  <Eddi|zuHause> that can't be proper grammar either
15:09:07  <dihedral> hey ho Belugas - happy new year to you ;-)
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15:17:00  <Flygon> Dumb question
15:17:12  <Eddi|zuHause> dumb answer
15:17:27  <Flygon> Is there a list for when eGRVTS 2 vehicles are introduced?
15:17:37  <Flygon> If there is one, I can't find it
15:17:44  <Eddi|zuHause> is there a readme?
15:18:02  <Flygon> No
15:18:44  <Eddi|zuHause> then you need to read the entire release and development thread, or you're out of luck
15:19:01  <Flygon> Bummer
15:19:02  <Flygon> Alright
15:19:57  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, if you were in quebec, that would :D
15:20:14  <Belugas> Happy new year to you too dihedral, and al of those who are reading these lines!!
15:20:36  <__ln__> there was this news article that Chicago zoo moved their polar bears indoors because it was too cold outside.
15:21:06  <Belugas> was not a fun start of year, for me though...  went to the emergencies fr may dad (he's fine now), my son caugh chickenpox (still contagious) and one of my HD at work crashed
15:21:07  <Belugas> yeah!!
15:21:29  <Belugas> it is indeed quite cold here as well ;)
15:21:49  <Eddi|zuHause> there was something about the niagara falls being frozen
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15:21:54  <Belugas> climate warming.. yeah right...
15:22:22  <Eddi|zuHause> well everything is green out here
15:22:38  <MNIM> Belugas: try europe
15:22:48  <MNIM> it's freaking spring out here!
15:23:06  <Eddi|zuHause> it regularly hits 2-digit temperatures
15:23:24  <MNIM> hell, in the netherlands it rarely gets below 2 digits.
15:23:38  <Eddi|zuHause> (meaning °C)
15:23:41  <MNIM> (with the occasional bout of fall storms, but eh, that's normal. IN MARCH)
15:25:15  <Flygon> Move to Victoria, Australia
15:25:20  <Flygon> It snows. During summer
15:25:46  <Flygon> Anyway
15:25:48  <Flygon> Hyvaa yota
15:26:17  <Eddi|zuHause> missing an À?
15:26:46  <__ln__> and ö
15:29:20  <MNIM> Flygon: correct me if Im mistaken, but isn't australia suffering a heatwave right now?
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15:35:41  <Belugas> -12 c. today.  we feel like it's "normal" compared to the -20 and more we had previously
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15:53:11  <Aristide> I plain to extend bus lines (at arrow) :3
15:56:33  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
15:59:55  <Japa__> Aristide, how do you get that map?
16:00:53  <Aristide> Japa__: I play with both games :x Simutrans and openttd
16:00:57  <Aristide> Actually is Simutrans
16:01:06  <Aristide> But I don't know how to get this map with openttd :(
16:02:34  <Japa__> Ah, okay
16:02:34  <Japa__> :(
16:02:37  <Japa__> hm...
16:02:41  <Japa__> PLUGIN TIME!
16:02:42  <Japa__> :P
16:03:50  <Aristide> xD
16:05:18  <Aristide> Well, bus lines are extended _o/
16:08:14  <Aristide> \o/ Well
16:08:28  <Aristide> I transport only passengers
16:19:32  <Japa__> Now my mind segued into exporting an OSM format map of the landscape
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16:22:32  <NL_Michel> someone some experience with the soap plugin?
16:25:55  <NL_Michel> i need to know what OFS is, it's in the prerequisites
16:26:28  *** TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
16:27:01  <dihedral> NL_Michel, do you have a link?
16:31:42  <dihedral> NL_Michel, you can keep the chat in here please ;-)
16:32:31  <NL_Michel> a k:)
16:33:22  <NL_Michel> I searched for it, but can't find anything related to OFS and OpenTTD
16:35:13  <dihedral>
16:35:18  <dihedral> works for me :-P
16:36:13  <NL_Michel> Wow
16:36:30  <NL_Michel> Thanks, seems like i need to search better then
16:36:40  <dihedral> ;-)
16:53:01  *** Taede_ is now known as Taede
17:09:29  <Eddi|zuHause> don't pick up the soap
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17:29:27  <NL_Michel> Why so?
17:29:34  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, i am sure not everybody would WANT to follow that advice :-P
17:29:38  <dihedral> see :-D
17:30:02  <NL_Michel> :)
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18:18:18  <Taede> hmm, i better put that in the readme
18:20:41  <V453000> nobody will read a readme anyway :P
18:21:01  <Taede> well if they didnt, they wouldn't even know to ask what ofs is
18:21:50  <Taede> i put ofs in as a requirement, but failed to explain what it actually refers to
18:22:40  *** gelignite [] has joined #openttd
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18:25:51  <triad> hello
18:25:54  <triad> someone available ?
18:26:10  <Pinkbeast> Sure, but you're not really my type.
18:26:17  <triad> heh
18:26:18  <Pinkbeast> ... just ask a question, tends to save time
18:26:52  <LordAro> @topic get 3
18:26:52  <DorpsGek> LordAro: Don't ask to ask, just ask
18:27:02  <triad> I start OpenTTD, and when i click the "build roadrail track" button it gets me out from the game!!! What can the issue ? It's the only bug i have, GOD DAMN IT
18:27:11  <triad> can be *
18:27:25  <triad> on Fedora , latest release.
18:27:30  <Pinkbeast> By "roadrail" do you mean trams, or trains?
18:27:36  <LordAro> "button it gets me out from the game" ?
18:27:40  <LordAro> you mean a crash?
18:27:44  <triad> on Windows 7 i don't have this problem
18:27:50  <triad> @LordAro : yes
18:27:52  <Pinkbeast> ... and is there any output after the crash?
18:28:07  <triad> @Pinkbeast: no simply gets me out.
18:28:07  <LordAro> triad: upload crash.* files to the bug tracker
18:28:18  <triad> where's the crash file if there is one!
18:28:28  <LordAro> My Documents\OpenTTD\
18:28:33  <LordAro> assuming windows
18:28:38  <triad> oh yes, i found it
18:28:47  <Pinkbeast> LordAro: "on Fedora"
18:28:55  <LordAro> ah
18:29:05  <Pinkbeast> Probably ~/.openttd I guess, but I infer triad has found it
18:29:25  <LordAro> Pinkbeast: well, Alberth runs fedora, and apparently has no problems, so.. *shrugs*
18:29:38  <LordAro> triad: which version are you running?
18:29:43  <triad>
18:29:52  <Pinkbeast> That's why I asked what "roadrail" means, I wonder if it is a bug if there is no tram set loaded
18:29:53  <triad> LordAro: latest version; all updates
18:30:05  <triad> roadrail meanins trains
18:30:06  <LordAro> @topic get 4
18:30:06  <DorpsGek> LordAro: 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither
18:30:23  <LordAro> @bugs
18:30:23  <DorpsGek> LordAro: Temporary Offline
18:30:24  <triad> @DorpsGek: the latest STABLE one
18:30:31  <LordAro> ;)
18:30:35  <LordAro> lots of changes since then
18:30:41  <LordAro> triad: can you reproduce?
18:30:57  <triad> what ?
18:31:05  <LordAro> can you reproduce the crash?
18:31:13  <triad> to make it again ? ok
18:31:33  <LordAro> other than that, upload the existing crash.* files (all of them) to
18:32:01  <triad> i need an account as i see
18:32:13  <LordAro> yup
18:32:28  <Pinkbeast> triad: Did you install a package maintained by Fedora, or install it yourself?
18:32:52  <triad> yum install openttd
18:32:56  <triad> simple as that
18:33:08  <triad> no other repos added, just from Fedora
18:33:34  <Pinkbeast> Huh. Did you select any NewGRFs?
18:33:44  <LordAro> Pinkbeast: not, according to the gamelog
18:34:03  <Pinkbeast> Oh, well spotted. I think I have it.
18:34:23  <triad> :)
18:34:37  <Pinkbeast>
18:35:04  <Pinkbeast> I think it's an ongoing problem with the Fedora build, and you might do better to build your own, which I realise is a bit of a pain but is less than you think.
18:35:16  <Pinkbeast> It is probably also worth updating that Fedora bug.
18:35:54  <LordAro> Pinkbeast: i dunno, that's a very different stack trace
18:35:59  <Aristide> Hi again :)
18:36:13  <Pinkbeast> LordAro: you may be better informed than I
18:36:32  <LordAro> not with a heavily hex-ified stack trace like that :L
18:36:46  <LordAro> triad: either way, can you post the crash files to the bug tracker?
18:37:22  <triad> if you already have a account i would appreciate it; if not, i'll upload it in a few minutes
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18:37:34  <LordAro> ..
18:38:03  <Pinkbeast> ... yeah, but it was a lot better than my Romanian
18:38:18  <LordAro> wuh?
18:38:27  <Pinkbeast> His English.
18:38:40  <LordAro> ah, right
18:42:04  *** Japa__ [~Japa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:45:16  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26233 trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt (2014-01-09 18:45:09 UTC)
18:45:17  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:18  <DorpsGek> swedish - 2 changes by spacejens
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18:52:54  <triad> back
18:53:06  <triad> got crash from stupid web browser :\
18:53:38  <LordAro> :L
18:54:15  <triad> so.. how may i fix my problem ?
18:54:23  <triad> is there any way..
18:54:34  <LordAro> not without knowing more about it
18:54:44  <LordAro> please upload ALL the crash files to
18:54:58  <LordAro> crash.log, crash.dmp, crash.png, crash.sav
18:55:10  <triad> Ok :\
18:55:14  <triad> :] **
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19:10:11  <andythenorth> bit of a 'blah blah blah' day eh?
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19:36:13  <triad> LordAro, Pinkbeast - you said if i build i manually it may work ?
19:36:18  <triad> it*
19:36:40  <LordAro> doubt it
19:36:57  <frosch123> you compiled it yourself, didn't you?
19:37:02  <frosch123> the farm has no redhat
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19:37:07  <triad> frosch123 - no
19:37:18  <triad> so i should try compile it myself ?
19:37:23  <triad> what are the chances ... ?
19:37:27  <frosch123> you got it from your distro?
19:37:29  <LordAro> unlikely
19:37:46  <triad> frosch123: yes; yum install openttd
19:37:57  <triad> no other repos added; just fedora rep.
19:51:28  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
19:51:32  <supermop> hi
19:51:50  <triad> hello
19:53:20  <Alberth> fedora 20 has  1.3.3-1.fc20
19:53:31  <Alberth> ie current stable
19:53:58  <triad> still; doesn't work properly
19:54:17  <LordAro> /o supermo
19:54:19  <LordAro> p
19:55:43  <supermop> hows it going?
19:56:06  <LordAro> maths exams, currently :L
19:56:23  <supermop> can work be taken from a gpl v2 project and released as v3 or visversa?
19:56:36  <supermop> what sort of math?
19:57:02  <LordAro> well, i had calculus yesterday, which went awfully, and i have algebra tomorrow
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20:00:25  <supermop> very fun
20:01:21  <LordAro> yup
20:02:05  <triad> i got some exams next week too
20:02:10  <triad> awesome as fuck
20:02:20  *** Devroush [] has joined #openttd
20:02:29  <LordAro> very :3
20:03:07  <triad> 8 exams in the next months.
20:03:13  <supermop> i wish i did as well
20:03:26  <supermop> but i am quitting my job
20:03:54  <supermop> so not many exams in the foreseeable future
20:04:31  <LordAro> :O
20:04:47  <triad> supermop: you could examine my issue with the game :]
20:04:57  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
20:04:58  <supermop> haha
20:05:02  <triad>
20:05:06  <Wolf01> hello
20:05:12  <triad> maybe you have somet thoughts
20:05:15  <triad> some*
20:05:25  <supermop> i make no guarantees as to the quality of response you will get
20:05:45  <supermop> yep, i have no idea what any of that means
20:06:14  <LordAro> triad: you overestimate how skilled the majority of the people in this channel are ;)
20:06:29  <supermop> i wonder if i should try to get my fiancee interested in nfo, so she can code stations for me
20:06:35  <andythenorth> brrrr exams
20:06:37  <LordAro> :D
20:06:42  <triad> :)
20:06:47  <supermop> i am not the code savy half
20:06:48  * andythenorth is so free from jumping those hoops
20:07:01  <triad> are you playing on servers or just single player mode ?
20:07:29  <supermop> i don't play that much at all lately
20:07:48  <supermop> one because i have to get ready to move
20:07:56  <Alberth> hi Wolf01
20:08:01  <supermop> and two because i start a game, see something i wish was different,
20:08:05  <Alberth> hi andy
20:08:25  <supermop> think about working out how to change it, draw something better etc,
20:08:43  <supermop> then realize i don't have nearly enough time to execute that
20:08:54  <Alberth> playing the game of changing the game is quite entertaining :)
20:09:00  <supermop> which leaves me unsatisfied with my game so i just sort of trail off
20:09:05  <andythenorth> bonsoir
20:09:12  <andythenorth> supermop: +1
20:09:19  <andythenorth> the only games I finish are....
20:09:21  <andythenorth> none of them :P
20:09:31  <Alberth> just redefine finishing :p
20:09:46  <andythenorth> playing to some kind of conclusion?
20:09:50  <andythenorth> like winning or losing the GS?
20:10:07  <supermop> play just far enough to the point where it should get interesting -
20:10:19  <Alberth> I define it as "I stop playing with the game file"
20:10:38  <supermop> Andy i did manage a heart of darkness game
20:10:42  <andythenorth> me too, ish
20:10:58  <andythenorth> I was obviously going to win the GS if I could be bothered to connect enough mines, so I stopped playing
20:11:08  <Alberth> :)
20:11:31  <supermop> i did give up as the GS i was using kept crashing and i became preoccupied with the metro network of a city stuck in the desert (not very heart of darkness like)
20:11:33  <andythenorth> I really like MP nocargoal because it's frantic
20:11:42  <andythenorth> single player cargo goal scripts are meh ish
20:11:54  <supermop> it makes me yearn for a non-arid tropical environment
20:12:05  <andythenorth> he :)
20:12:10  <supermop> i like growth scripts but not totally happy with any yet
20:12:14  <andythenorth> better terrain generator? o_O
20:12:20  <supermop> yeah maybe
20:12:40  <supermop> basically i want a vietnam or similar landscape
20:12:58  <andythenorth> it doesn't help that I know when all the new vehicle types are going to turn up
20:13:05  <supermop> mix of jungles, forests, high lands and lowlands
20:13:06  <andythenorth> kind of removes any chance elements
20:13:10  <andythenorth> disasters off
20:13:10  <supermop> yeah
20:13:12  <andythenorth> breakdowns off
20:13:23  <supermop> i wish nml could randomize vehicles
20:13:23  <andythenorth> I can plot ahead to getting a new vehicle in 1910 or whatever
20:14:00  <supermop> like you supply it with generational sprites, and your grf randomly makes a vehicle
20:14:10  <supermop> like town name generator
20:14:23  <supermop> random-ish names,
20:14:46  <juzza1> how would those generational sprites work?
20:14:47  <supermop> stats from within a range for each generation, but never exactly the same
20:14:53  <andythenorth> cb36
20:14:55  <supermop> they would be very generic
20:15:17  <supermop> so liets say you have a 60s-ish bush sprite
20:15:20  <supermop> bus
20:16:15  <andythenorth> I think randomised stats are a red herring tbh
20:16:28  <supermop> maybe in 1962 the game makes a random bus using it, in 66 makes a different bus with a 2nd cc stripe?
20:18:46  <supermop> that or make a RV set with a ton of very similar vehicles throughout 100years, and randomly deactivate 60% of them
20:18:48  <supermop> ?
20:19:26  <supermop> i would like generic vehicles with random names a la town names though
20:20:44  <supermop> anyway
20:21:11  <andythenorth> tech levels :P
20:21:23  <supermop> do you plan on coffee existing in the 'full' economy? or is it a tropical only thing?
20:21:33  <andythenorth> 'for some inane reason, you have levelled up: here is a new vehicle'
20:21:37  <andythenorth> full economy is done
20:21:39  <supermop> yess
20:21:40  <andythenorth> no more changes
20:21:54  <andythenorth> full economy is batshit crazy, nobody should play it
20:22:02  <supermop> the actually Busses should just gain experiences
20:22:22  <supermop> that sentence made no sense
20:22:49  <supermop> every truck starts out as a forklift and has to level up
20:23:55  <supermop> i would play with something a bit less port heavy than heart of darkness, although i think as is is a good fit for many developing economies
20:24:39  <supermop> currently though there is basically no processing, just raw mineral extraction, then send away for some finished goods
20:25:27  <supermop> anyway i didn't log on today just to pester andy to make firs less fun
20:25:33  <andythenorth> which aspects of HoD do you like?
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20:25:39  <andythenorth> ...there will be more economies in future
20:25:48  <andythenorth> probably one or two a year until I'm bored
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20:25:57  <supermop> paradoxically, the ports
20:26:56  <supermop> having a vareity of types of them
20:27:27  <supermop> i actually never completed a line from a farm to anywhere
20:28:00  <supermop> also it felt weird not to be able to make food out of fruit
20:28:15  <supermop> i guess there was a brewery i missed?
20:28:40  <supermop> as i was stuck in the desert, i needed food more than normal to grow a city,
20:29:12  <supermop> so alcohol didn't really help
20:29:44  <andythenorth> you kind of have to import all your food
20:29:54  <andythenorth> or catch fish
20:30:19  <supermop> yeah
20:30:55  <supermop> i guess i want "SE Asia" more than "sub-Saharan Africa"
20:32:33  <supermop> i never understood diamonds as a heavy cargo for a big transport company to focus on either - but I guess that is out of respect to the TTD heritage
20:33:11  <supermop> HOD is fun though
20:33:49  <supermop> and if i wasn't stuck in the desert would be great for the primarily urban game i was playing
20:34:14  <supermop> getting all finished goods from a port works well with big cities
20:34:56  <supermop> one thing i like about the supplies mechanic
20:35:05  <supermop> is that I can ration them
20:35:38  <supermop> so i can serve a mine or farm and prevent the gargo generated from ever becoming too huge
20:36:19  <andythenorth> try it with cargodist :P
20:36:20  <supermop> as i dont like having my commuter lines overrunf with unit trains of bauxite
20:36:30  <andythenorth> supplies might yet get removed
20:36:33  <andythenorth> we'll see
20:37:00  <andythenorth> I am concerned about supplies, I think the boost is too high
20:37:18  <andythenorth> quadruple is a lot of network load all at once, and it can flap easily
20:37:28  <andythenorth> I am actually considering (shock) a parameter
20:37:50  <andythenorth> for boost (1x, 2x, 4x) or (1x, 1.5x, 2x)
20:37:54  <supermop> oooh
20:38:20  <andythenorth> I can make you a patched FIRS if you want to test lower boost
20:38:52  <supermop> cant really put it through its paces for a couple weeks until after i move, find a new job, and settle in
20:38:59  <andythenorth> np
20:39:08  <andythenorth> where are you moving to?
20:39:10  <supermop> but 1.5 and 2x sounds better for me
20:39:14  <supermop> melbourne
20:40:07  <supermop> id also rather see 8x production come from new mines, not one mine digging up more because they are choking on backhoes that get dumped there every month
20:41:27  <supermop> fiancee is there for her master's
20:45:31  <triad> supermop - you are from Aussie ?
20:45:41  <supermop> nope
20:45:47  <supermop> live in new york
20:45:54  <triad> :)
20:45:58  <triad> that's nice
20:47:23  <supermop> andythenorth: have you every thought about breaking out parts of firs industries to add as chips tiles?
20:47:34  <andythenorth> some have been
20:47:36  <supermop> *ever
20:47:55  <supermop> bigger building though than the little white L shaped one
20:48:12  <supermop> like the big hall of the machine shop
20:48:44  <andythenorth> nah
20:48:46  <andythenorth> confusing
20:48:48  <andythenorth> imho
20:48:57  <supermop> ah
20:49:05  <andythenorth> if somebody wants them as objects I wouldn't stop them
20:49:35  <supermop> i want to have pretend that the machine shop is building my trains
20:50:28  <supermop> a paved tile that matches chips platforms and industry pavement but does not accrue huge piles of crates would be cool too
20:51:11  <andythenorth> station cargo graphics are ugly :D
20:51:29  <supermop> haha
20:51:33  <supermop> its embarassing
20:51:59  <supermop> that im so bad at taking the food away it dwarfs the train that has come for it!
20:53:12  <andythenorth> then some other cargo piles up, and the whole station changes, all at once
20:53:40  <supermop> or if trains are in the process of loading, it can switch back and forth
20:54:26  <supermop> its a clever mechanic though, and a great way to make cargo stations more accessible to casual users
20:55:44  <andythenorth> ugly :)
20:55:51  * andythenorth is unforgiving
20:56:20  <supermop> i also love putting a pit of cobble pavement around my grain mills/bakeries
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20:58:43  <supermop> do you still have that tuk-tuk?
21:04:27  <supermop> going to grab a quick late lunch, talk to you guys later
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21:33:59  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:49:00  <burty> I'm trying to make a new company option but can't get it working in multiplayer. It changes for the company but only client side. I'm using DoCommandP is that correct? If not could someone point me in the right direction for this stuff?
21:50:25  <Eddi|zuHause> DoCommand and DoCommandP differ in exactly whether the command is sent over the network or applied only client side
21:50:30  <frosch123> isn't there already such an option?
21:50:51  <Eddi|zuHause> and you can create a new company by first moving to spectator
21:51:28  <Rubidium> (new company) option or, new (company option)?
21:51:57  <burty> new (company option)
21:52:23  <Rubidium> so something like autoclean setting; then why not use the already existing settings infrastructure?
21:53:14  <burty> You mean like looking at the change company name and follow that through?
21:53:37  * andythenorth considers patching construction to auto-demolish rivers
21:53:44  <Rubidium> I'm assuming it's some sort of setting, right?
21:53:53  <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of setting do you want to make?
21:53:54  <frosch123> i guess you jsut add a thing to src/table/company_settings.ini
21:55:05  <burty> It's the idea that companies can individually set their shares for sale. It's part of the larger patch I'm working on.
21:58:01  <Eddi|zuHause> so basically it's just a number
21:58:33  <burty> Yeah, well a boolean
21:59:41  <burty> It's a enable/disable shares for sale to start with... I'm thinking I may well change it so they can put up amounts for sale to raise capital... Basing a lot off of TheJoshs original ideas and talk
21:59:42  <Eddi|zuHause> then what frosch123 said is probably the right approach
22:00:07  <frosch123> i am not so sure about that anymore :p
22:00:19  <frosch123> company settings have a default value and such
22:00:38  <frosch123> while you do not just sell shares to the public on start
22:01:07  <Eddi|zuHause> well default value: offer 0% of your shares
22:01:35  <Eddi|zuHause> and proc can be something that does the actual selling (or not)
22:02:04  <frosch123> oh yes, also changing settings does not immediately affect stuff, as in changing bank balance and such
22:02:21  <frosch123> so, this sounds much more like a new command
22:02:30  <burty> Trying to clarify: It's sort of like renaming the company. You click rename and the new name is propagated <= that is the bit I'm struggling with is the propagation of the change on the network :(
22:02:52  <burty> Yeah it would be a command... Sorry I think I muddied the explanation by using option
22:03:08  <frosch123> you call DoCommandP on the client, and the CmdXXX function is called everywhere
22:03:33  <frosch123> you have to make the CmdXXX perform a check for ~DC_EXEC, and execute on DC_EXEC
22:03:43  <frosch123> the check may not alter the game state
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22:22:04  <andythenorth> bye
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22:27:39  <burty> Thanks frosch, I had a quick look at that and it seems that *could* be the right way to head but I've still not got it sorted yet but too tired so gonna look again tomorrow. Thanks again all :)
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