Config
Log for #openttd on 15th January 2014:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
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07:26:19  <dihedral> good morning
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09:17:58  <planetmaker> moin
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10:08:09  <Flygon> Morning, planetmaker!
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10:31:10  <Xaroth|Work> o/ pm
10:36:18  <Taede> mornin
10:37:06  <Xaroth> o/ Taede
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13:04:53  <Taede> ['=
13:05:33  <Xaroth|Work> interesting smiley :o
13:09:48  <Taede> lol
13:10:05  <Taede> busy fixing screen on lappy, mustve hit some keys on the desktop there
13:11:51  <planetmaker> be lucky that it were only keys and not bricks
13:11:57  <planetmaker> the latter would be more permanent
13:12:34  <Taede> no matter, my wife's lappy from the same series died due to mainboard fault, i've been keeping it as spare parts
13:38:32  <Taede> always good that it works after you fix it
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14:37:20  <NGC3982> http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/69073.html
14:37:23  <NGC3982> Fantastic.
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17:55:09  <_1man2kinds> can anyone recommend a task/bug for a beginner ?
17:56:21  *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50-32-23-184.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:56:23  <__ln__> the code may be to big a shock for a beginner
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17:56:53  <_1man2kinds> I know, I've been digging the code for a few days already
17:57:23  <_1man2kinds> I don't mean a c++ beginner
17:58:31  <LordAro> http://wiki.openttd.org/Todo_List ?
17:58:58  <LordAro> lower case 'l', sorry
18:00:11  <_1man2kinds> it seems that the 'Easy' ones are mostly done
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18:07:15  <LordAro> no, otherwise they wouldn't be there ;)
18:07:57  <LordAro> well, a couple have patches, but none of them are in trunk
18:14:02  <__ln__> getting patches in the trunk most definitely isn't suitable for beginners
18:15:56  <_1man2kinds> so if I'd submit a patch, I'll need one of you to commit it to the trunk ?
18:17:07  <__ln__> (i'm not a member of 'you')  yes, that's right, and it's not as easy as it sounds
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18:21:45  <planetmaker> Basically yes, _1man2kinds . We want to believe it's that easy, and ideally it is
18:22:05  <planetmaker> practically you'll have to quarrel with one or more of us to fulfill what we think should change :)
18:22:13  <Xaroth|Work> I've had no issues getting my patches to land in trunk :)
18:22:22  <planetmaker> being on IRC is a good think for this, though
18:22:50  <planetmaker> *good thing
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18:25:40  <planetmaker> _1man2kinds, using the forums to present the patches is a good idea, too :)
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19:06:10  <andythenorth> o/
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19:19:46  <_1man2kinds> ok, the following task from the todo list seems doable
19:19:47  <_1man2kinds> Add the user-side possibility to exclude selected AIs from being chosen as "random AI" for new games
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19:21:16  <Wolf01> moin
19:25:10  <andythenorth> hola
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19:25:38  <andythenorth> if andythenorth.hungry == True: return True
19:25:39  <andythenorth> True
19:39:25  <rubenwardy> or just "return andythenorth.hungry"
19:39:59  <andythenorth> definitely more concise
19:40:15  <andythenorth> but my function is called "should_andythenorth_make_food"
19:40:17  <Rubidium> though possibly not as good
19:40:31  <andythenorth> and I need to extend it
19:40:45  <Rubidium> mostly because hungry could be a floating point to give the amount of hungriness
19:41:09  <andythenorth> for example "if $someone[else].will_make_food == True: return False"
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19:41:51  * andythenorth contemplates the database churn of 'if person.will_make_food && person.name != andythenorth'
19:41:57  <_1man2kinds> hungriness can also be a complex number since it has a real part and imaginary part ;)
19:42:20  <andythenorth> rage = self.hunger > 10
19:42:47  * Alberth throws cookies into the channel
19:42:49  <andythenorth> lo
19:42:58  <Rubidium> hi Alberth
19:43:08  <andythenorth> dunno if I can accept your cookies under EU law
19:43:14  <andythenorth> have you provided a cookie statement?
19:43:35  <Alberth> yes, it says "they are very tasty and are found to be harmless"
19:44:07  <Alberth> I will never want them back :)
19:44:10  * andythenorth browses suggestions forum
19:44:28  <Alberth> be careful!
19:44:30  <Rubidium> they can be used to store personal information, though generally due to the nature of these cookies, the personal data of the cookies never reaches the producer of the cookies
19:44:44  <andythenorth> hrmmm
19:44:46  <Rubidium> it rather reaches the sewer workers... but that's another thing ;)
19:44:48  <andythenorth> the orders UI rolls on
19:45:14  <andythenorth> I have only done UI design most days of the week for about 15 years
19:45:18  <andythenorth> so I don't know much about it
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19:45:33  <andythenorth> but I've found that lots of words tends not to be the most productive design technique
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19:46:17  <Alberth> design by committee has this property of needing to explain everything
19:46:31  <andythenorth> it's fun
19:46:39  <andythenorth> because the comittee has no power to implement :P
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19:46:50  <andythenorth> the orders UI could use some tweaks, but it's not the worst offender
19:47:20  * Rubidium wonders whether they are done before they can answer the result of 1+2+3+4+5+6+.... ;)
19:47:54  <Rubidium> I rather like the answer of that infinite sum though
19:49:36  <frosch123> 21+... ?
19:50:14  <Rubidium> nope, apparantly it's -1/12
19:51:31  <Xaroth|Work> o_O
19:52:48  <frosch123> well, i got 2 of 3 digits right then
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20:00:17  <Rubidium> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3000/ <- yay magic math ;)
20:02:26  <Rubidium> hmm, missing minus at the end of line 16 :(
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20:25:57  <triad> someone with management skills around ?
20:26:12  <Xaroth|Work> define 'management skills'
20:26:40  <Rubidium> I've managed the tides for a while, does that count?
20:27:23  <triad> Xaroth|Work
20:27:29  <triad> i got a school project
20:29:44  <frosch123> just smile and say that you delegated the project
20:30:10  <frosch123> actually, don't smile, keep serious
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20:50:18  <planetmaker> infinity is such a nice number :)
20:52:11  <peter1138> -infinity
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21:00:03  <Eddi|zuHause> there definitely is something wrong with custom currency settings
21:00:33  <frosch123> when did it break? or just in general?
21:00:51  <frosch123> maybe the ini file validation?
21:01:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember noticing this quite a while ago, but i did not investigate
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21:15:21  <Eddi|zuHause> so r25075 works :)
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21:15:59  <Eddi|zuHause> r26075 doesn't
21:19:04  <Eddi|zuHause> 25575 doesn't
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21:21:14  <Eddi|zuHause> 25325 doesn't
21:23:59  <Eddi|zuHause> 25200 doesn't compile: /mnt/disk2/spiele/OpenTTD/trunk_clean/objs/setting/table/settings.h:781:1: error: ‘struct WindowDesc’ has no member named ‘pref_sticky’
21:25:05  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, clean helped, it seems
21:26:14  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't work either
21:28:49  <Eddi|zuHause> 25137 doesn't work either
21:31:27  <Eddi|zuHause> 25106 doesn't
21:33:04  <Rubidium> so... nobody uses custom currencies ;)
21:33:21  <Eddi|zuHause> well i do, but i haven't played in 2 years :p
21:36:22  <andythenorth> I love unused features
21:36:23  <Eddi|zuHause> 25091 doesn't
21:36:39  <andythenorth> one day, some day, we are going to put logging into our apps to see what customers actually use
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21:36:52  <frosch123> will if 25075 works, maybe 25076 doesn't
21:36:56  <andythenorth> we ran apache logs on one feature we thought *nobody* used and found it was quite popular :P
21:37:04  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that's what i feared :p
21:37:16  <frosch123> maybe there is still some dependency on the custom one being the last one
21:37:38  <andythenorth> are we allowed to delete unused features?
21:37:56  <Eddi|zuHause> 25082 doesn't
21:39:50  <frosch123> andythenorth:  not if we use them to decline other features
21:39:51  <Eddi|zuHause> binary search sucks
21:40:17  <frosch123> like historically accurate exchange rates
21:40:59  <Rubidium> frosch123: not like that's every going to happen; it's mayhem in MP
21:41:13  <andythenorth> oic :)
21:41:20  <andythenorth> gatekeeper features
21:41:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, 25076 breaks it
21:41:34  <andythenorth> we should add some more :)
21:42:24  <andythenorth> can we add stuff to block daylength, liveries per vehicle, and vehicle groups organised into tedious tree structures? o_O
21:42:46  <Rubidium> because it would be odd if the amount of money on the bank account drops because of the exchange rate changing. As a result everyone has to play in his 'local' currency, but then due to the exchange rate two people in the same company will have a different value of the company because the exchange rate between their currencies changed
21:43:58  <frosch123> ResetCurrencies looks fishy
21:44:00  <andythenorth> we could just allow that it's realistic?
21:44:06  <andythenorth> and have forex speculation :P
21:44:29  <Rubidium> and since you know the exchange rates in 'early' games, you could just switch currencies to the one that is going to increase in 'value' most to make the most money
21:45:33  <andythenorth> that's just sensible strategy
21:46:03  <Eddi|zuHause> oh yeah
21:46:07  <Eddi|zuHause> that looks bad
21:46:29  <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3001/ <- does that fix it?
21:47:37  <frosch123> oh i can delete 4 lines of silly comments
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21:49:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah
21:49:43  <Eddi|zuHause> seems to work
21:52:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26262 trunk/src/currency.cpp (2014-01-15 21:52:22 UTC)
21:52:29  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25075, r25076): Custom currency was reset on game start.
21:54:23  <frosch123> hmm, while it is old stuff, it is actually 1.4 only
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22:19:25  <andythenorth> what I need here is a modular processing pipeline for spritesheets
22:19:31  <andythenorth> maybe I invented that already
22:19:39  * andythenorth checks :P
22:21:47  <andythenorth> hurrrrgh
22:21:53  <andythenorth> how does all this pixa stuff work :P
22:21:58  <andythenorth> it made sense at the time :)
22:22:02  <Alberth> lol :)
22:22:33  <Alberth> not sure if you should call that a modular pipeline :p
22:22:52  <andythenorth> it's curious
22:23:01  <andythenorth> it looks like 'my first python project' :P
22:23:17  <andythenorth> I have classes and functions and constants all mixed up together
22:24:20  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:26:36  <andythenorth> otoh, I do have documentation
22:26:41  <andythenorth> with pictures and everything
22:26:54  <andythenorth> which means I knew it was wrong at the time :)
22:27:11  <Alberth> perhaps a manual at the forum somewhere?
22:28:10  <andythenorth> after a year away from it, there seem to be obviously better ways to do it :)
22:28:17  <andythenorth> but maybe they will have new pitfalls :)
22:28:48  <Alberth> you can count on that, or you would have found the ideal way of working already by now :)
22:29:22  <andythenorth> hmm
22:29:33  <andythenorth> with some work, this pixa thing could save a lot of time...
22:30:12  * planetmaker actually ponders somewhat scripting gimp to do some image editing. Just unsure to use gimp's script-fu (scheme) or the python interface :D
22:31:02  <planetmaker> so far I can create a new image which is completely orange. Or I can select a rectangle and have it fail on doing anything with the selection when using scheme
22:31:54  <planetmaker> (I need simple means to re-use ground tiles for road and rail sprites - copy & paste is boring)
22:31:56  <Alberth> PIL + python?
22:32:27  <planetmaker> I need to edit layers in gimp files and then export some layers from the resulting file
22:32:45  <planetmaker> maybe PIL + python would do the trick, too...
22:33:58  <planetmaker> the advantage of doing it as gimp plug-in: it could also be called from gimp's GUI and one can use the result for ruther editing
22:34:14  <andythenorth> I have limited faith in scripting big image editors
22:34:23  <andythenorth> PIL is odd and known flakey, but it's fast and simple
22:34:33  <andythenorth> some people also swear by ImageMagick
22:35:14  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe use the pixa code from CETS?
22:35:20  <Alberth> oh, I tried that for the animated bow gif of the forum, was a lot of fun to use it
22:35:37  <andythenorth> it's a lot more feature rich than PIL
22:35:44  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that is mostly in scripts/img.py and some bits in scripts/tree.py
22:35:48  <andythenorth> for PIL you have to basically invent your own compositing
22:35:51  <andythenorth> http://www.imagemagick.org/script/index.php
22:36:04  * andythenorth has not used imagemagick though
22:36:08  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'll look ta
22:37:06  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yeah you've abstracted some of the bits I need - export and encode
22:37:17  <andythenorth> my old BANDIT code duplicates that all over the place, stupidly
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22:37:39  <andythenorth> what / why are you pickling?
22:38:00  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: storage so i can do the encoding in a separate step
22:38:09  <Eddi|zuHause> allows for make -j<n>
22:39:17  <Eddi|zuHause> so in the generate step i write the shape stuff into a file, and in the encoding step i read that and create the image
22:39:58  <andythenorth> ok, I'll return to this in a day or so
22:40:09  <andythenorth> the stuff I did for BANDIT 100% works, but I hate the structure
22:40:31  <andythenorth> now I need to rewrite it for IH, FISH and (secret project)
22:40:58  <andythenorth> but now bed :)
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