Log for #openttd on 6th April 2014:
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00:58:53  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> if we expose the "planned flow", gs can easily figure out a lot about cargo flows <-- how about forcefully disconnecting links (city A puts an embargo on city B)
01:21:36  <Flygon> Sooooo
01:22:20  <Flygon> You guys want to make a North-South Korea scenario with Cargodist where NK and SK randomly embargo eachother?
01:24:38  <Eddi|zuHause> or moving front lines in WWII, or whatever
01:24:52  <Eddi|zuHause> it's basically the opposite of subsidies
01:25:17  <Eddi|zuHause> and it's probably horribly annoying and nobody wants to play with it :p
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01:37:04  <Supercheese> OTTD has too darn many strings
01:37:34  <Supercheese> And there are sparse (at best) Latin references for multiplayer-gaming terms
01:39:37  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what you get for not having loan words
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01:54:39  <Supercheese> surprisingly, there is at least one other game that has a (partially complete) Latin translation
01:54:54  <Supercheese> with plenty of multiplayer terms and the like
01:57:19  <Flygon> Eddi: Makes sense for some types of scenarios
01:57:34  <Flygon> eg. the whole moving Frontlines thing
01:57:52  <Flygon> The transport company that transports military equipment for the country better helps win the war
01:58:04  <Flygon> So you're rewarded when you make stuff work as good as possible
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05:55:23  <andythenorth> o/
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07:48:17  <andythenorth> 1950 Metro Train
07:48:21  <andythenorth> such an inspiring name
07:48:29  <andythenorth> along with 1900 Metro Train
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07:48:39  <andythenorth> and the memorable 2000 Metro Train
07:48:48  <andythenorth> maybe I should fix that :P
07:53:08  <andythenorth> hmm
07:53:13  <andythenorth> no vehicle ID in newgrf debug window?
07:56:14  <planetmaker> moin
07:56:27  <andythenorth> moin planetmaker
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08:23:13  <peter1138> Morning
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08:31:10  <Taede> mornin
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08:52:05  <andythenorth> my 2 year old seems to be able to kernel panic my mac
08:53:46  <SpComb> fuzz-testing
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09:03:24  <andythenorth> he causes the trackpad and USB hub to freak
09:03:32  <andythenorth> maybe he has the wrong polarity
09:05:51  <Flygon> andythenorth: Children are the best bugtesters
09:05:56  <Flygon> They do things adults would never do
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09:07:19  <andythenorth> all he does is touch it
09:07:20  <andythenorth> poof
09:07:22  <andythenorth> boom
09:09:02  <planetmaker> probably he's (in) charge :P
09:09:18  <planetmaker> of bug finding
09:11:20  <peter1138> Who wants hierarchical groups?
09:13:38  <andythenorth> hmm
09:13:44  <andythenorth> the foamers want them :D
09:16:36  <peter1138> Hurr, triple-screen OpenTTD...
09:17:17  <peter1138> Hmm... bezel compensation? :p
09:18:59  <andythenorth> :D
09:23:41  <Wolf01> moin
09:32:54  <andythenorth> new vehicle AI! Overtaking!  Also better physics!
09:33:02  <andythenorth> not OpenTTD :P
09:35:52  <peter1138> I never noticed their wheels didn't turn around bends :p
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09:37:11  <peter1138> I do wish they'd fix the crappy "slow lane has to merge into last lane" stuff.
09:40:01  <peter1138> Hmm, could do with windows appearing on the same screen as the mouse.
09:44:42  <peter1138> Oh dear, haemmoraging money :(
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09:47:28  <peter1138> Shouldn't've set up that airline route, really.
09:51:06  <andythenorth> flying coal?
09:51:30  <peter1138> Hmm, closed airports should incur less infrastructure cost, imho
09:51:49  <andythenorth> infra cost is a bit weird
09:52:04  <andythenorth> not sure what it solves
09:52:12  * rubidium wonders how much more Berlin Brandenburg costs than the other airports of Berlin
09:52:43  * andythenorth wonders if newgrf debug tools have vehicle IDs, but hidden somewhere I’m not seeing it
09:52:49  <peter1138> Don't have enough cash to destroy it :(
09:53:12  <peter1138> I was off by about £1000
09:53:19  <peter1138> Now I'm off by £81000
09:53:22  <peter1138> Not gonna happen.
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09:54:28  <peter1138> Oddly enough, I've got no money and yet something autorenewed.
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09:54:56  <peter1138> Oh wait, not that was profit from selling a vehicle. I'll shut up.
09:56:31  <peter1138> I cheated and used the undo button.
09:56:38  <peter1138> Sorry, undo knob.
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09:58:40  <andythenorth> quak
09:59:40  <frosch123> moin
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10:01:19  <planetmaker> moin
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10:15:13  <peter1138> Does cargodist do automatic transfers?
10:17:51  <drhese> any easy way to update dedicated linux server to 1.4.0?
10:20:40  <peter1138> Bah, this cargo only wants to go "anywhere" so transfers don't work.
10:22:08  <frosch123> anyone considers savegame compatibility important? :p
10:22:18  <peter1138> Nah
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11:33:15  <ZirconiumX> Hi guys (and girls)
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11:34:53  <frosch123> isn't it "gals" ?
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11:36:48  <ZirconiumX> There are no gals on the internet.
11:37:07  <ZirconiumX> There are girls, but no gals.
11:47:22  <peter1138> ...
11:47:27  <peter1138> Guys & gals.
11:47:30  <peter1138> Boys & girls.
11:47:37  <peter1138> Men & women.
11:47:54  <peter1138> You probably wouldn't want to say "Hi boys" so...
11:48:17  <andythenorth>
11:48:36  <peter1138> Hey, now that 1.4.0 is out, can I freely smash up trunk? :D
11:48:54  <peter1138> Thanks andythenorth
11:49:02  <andythenorth> kind of like rick rolling
11:49:13  <andythenorth> except the 10s of YT ads spoils the joke
11:49:22  <andythenorth> is YT dead yet?
11:49:26  <peter1138> What's a YT ad?
11:50:38  <michi_cc> peter1138: There's always revert, so... :p
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11:53:26  <andythenorth> is there a thing that blocks YT pre-roll ads?
11:53:52  <rubidium> Turkey?
11:54:06  <peter1138> Adblock?
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12:02:40  <andythenorth> peter1138: what are you going to scribble into trunk?
12:03:08  <frosch123> <- hmm, is "8bpp support" a screen resolution?
12:04:17  <frosch123> is "windowed only" a useful default? or should it rather be "not supported"?
12:04:31  <andythenorth> ho
12:04:41  <andythenorth> these metro trains of mine are much lower capacity than RL
12:04:49  <andythenorth> nvm
12:05:01  <frosch123> does "windowed only" makes sense anyway? is the videodriver faster with mapping 8->32bpp than ottd blitters?
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12:08:33  <peter1138> andythenorth, nothing useful.
12:08:42  <andythenorth> that’s what I’m doing too :)
12:10:31  <andythenorth> hmm
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12:10:43  <andythenorth> 400 pax is a bit big for a 1 tile train?
12:11:17  <peter1138> Packt like sardines in a crushd tin box
12:12:42  <andythenorth> in a tube
12:12:45  <andythenorth> sardine tube
12:12:48  <frosch123> veritcal trains
12:12:53  <frosch123> *vertical
12:13:12  <andythenorth> cdist seems to like these metro trains
12:13:23  <andythenorth> it has delivered 2000 pax to each of the 1-tile stations
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12:48:30  <Flygon> Cargodist likes anything within enough distance
12:48:40  <Flygon> It completely overwhelms anything using pre-1920s GRFs
12:48:47  <Flygon> Especially before Metro trains are a possibilit
12:49:02  <Flygon> So you use steam hauled trains... and they can't load enough people fast enough
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12:49:49  <Flygon> And that's not even getting into older Trams and Buses
12:50:08  <frosch123> is that why they started the war?
12:51:40  <Flygon> Nah, by the time that war happened, they devised more effective method of transporting masses of people
12:51:48  * Flygon casually walks into hell...
13:01:40  <rubidium> frosch123: it probably depends on the GPU/video card, although with recent GPUs I doubt they even have dedicated fast 8bpp support
13:05:15  <Phreeze> i only play windowed mode
13:05:25  <Phreeze> 2 screens = nice for windowed games
13:05:34  <Phreeze> 2nd screen has tv/series etc. running
13:06:19  <drhese> how I cab update my dedicated OTTD server easily?
13:06:22  <drhese> can*
13:15:55  <peter1138> Download the version you want to run and... run it?
13:18:10  <peter1138> Hmm, whatever happened to that trains-in-reverse patch?
13:22:50  <peter1138> Hmm, zBase large station has no glass :S
13:22:53  <drhese> I istalled ottd by using some script I found.. maybe I just install it again
13:24:25  <drhese> all again autopilot etc.. :DD
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14:26:29  <frosch123> peter1138: noone liked it, everyone wanted shunting or so :p
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14:53:38  <drhese> my server wont start :(
14:53:54  <drhese> Dimensions: 512x512
14:53:54  <drhese> Starting year: 1950
14:53:54  <drhese> list element in quotes followed by ":" instead of space while executing
14:53:54  <drhese> "lindex [lindex [split $::errorInfo \n] 0] 1"
14:53:54  <drhese>     (procedure "::ap::game::version" line 4)
14:53:56  <drhese>     invoked from within
14:53:59  <drhese> "::ap::game::version $openttd"
14:54:01  <drhese>     invoked from within
14:54:04  <drhese> "set ottd_version [::ap::game::version $openttd]"
14:54:06  <drhese>     (file "./autopilot.tcl" line 138)
14:55:31  <peter1138> frosch123, what!?
14:55:33  <peter1138> frosch123, :(
15:02:53  <peter1138> Do we have a standard confirmation window?
15:03:33  <peter1138> Cos when you have hierarchical vehicle groups, it's a right pain when you accidentally delete a top-level group... :S
15:05:16  <frosch123> yes, we have
15:06:03  <frosch123> ShowQuery
15:18:56  <peter1138> Wait, did my 32bpp crash palette mod never make it either? Hmm!
15:20:42  <michi_cc> Obviously you don't commit enough, you just write patches :)
15:20:47  <drhese>
15:20:53  <drhese> thats my problem
15:21:22  <__ln__>
15:31:50  <peter1138> Hmm, gotta update my svn checkout :S
15:47:03  <__ln__>
15:48:38  <peter1138> Errrr
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16:43:30  <zydeco> weird, it crashes when entering japanese, but not chinese
16:49:37  <zydeco>
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18:10:34  <andythenorth> o/
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18:13:54  <LSky> !players
18:13:54  *** LSky was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
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18:14:05  <LSky> woops
18:14:19  <LSky> thats a quick kick :/
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18:44:05  <LinhyCZ> Hey guys! :) Is there any way, to connect from newest android verison of OpenTTD to 1.4.0. PC server?
18:47:31  <frosch123> the versions must match
18:47:38  <frosch123> exactly
18:47:59  <frosch123> you can only connect to ottd 1.4.0 with ottd 1.4.0
18:48:10  <drhese> is there any way to get autopilot working with 1.4.0?
18:48:23  <frosch123> everyone uses soap these days
18:48:32  <frosch123> autopilot is deprecated
18:48:44  <drhese> I see
18:50:02  <drhese> soap is hard to install.. there isnt good enough manuals..
18:51:54  <frosch123> it has a readme
18:53:16  <drhese> yeah and its not easy
18:55:04  <drhese> I cant undestand why att cant be in same packet..
18:55:11  <drhese> it*
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18:56:16  <drhese> OFS, Supybot, libottdadmin2...
18:56:33  <drhese> do I realy need these all? I dont want irc support..
18:56:53  <frosch123> what do you want autopilot for then?
18:57:14  <drhese> scripts
18:57:18  <Taede> irc support is the main feature for soap
18:57:43  <drhese> like commands, MOTD etc..
18:58:04  <frosch123> aren't those generic ottd features?
18:59:07  <Taede> not the !nick/!admin/!rules and such
18:59:15  <Taede> or the private message upon joining a server
18:59:37  <drhese> and !reset
18:59:46  <Taede> dunno that one
19:00:16  <drhese> I had to add resetme script that I found from
19:01:06  <Taede> ah, soap does not feature that at this point
19:01:58  <drhese> I just need simple scripts.. Im too old to set and configure server from day to day.. :D
19:04:39  <Taede> not sure something like that exists without going over irc
19:05:21  <LinhyCZ> I know, that they must match, but how can I get the same version on android?
19:05:29  <drhese> :/
19:05:36  <Taede> libottdadmin2 itself comes with a console-app, but its really just that, a remote console
19:05:41  <Taede> no motd/ingame commands
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19:07:39  <drhese> k
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19:22:44  <planetmaker> g'evening
19:23:18  <andythenorth> lo planetmaker
19:23:25  <planetmaker> LinhyCZ, I read in forums that there is an OpenTTD 1.4.0 for android. whereever the maintainer of that port uploaded it / makes it available
19:25:10  <planetmaker> anything new today, andythenorth ? :D
19:25:47  <andythenorth> planetmaker: been horsing
19:25:53  <andythenorth> fixed some errors
19:26:09  <planetmaker> horses are no errors. At least if I ask my sister ;)
19:26:45  <planetmaker> but she basically has a PhD in horse psychology :P
19:26:53  <rubidium> they are cattle though ;)
19:33:11  <Phreeze> lol
19:37:23  <LinhyCZ> planetmaker, I've downlaoded it through Google Play, where it says, that it's ..
19:37:40  <planetmaker> that's unfortunate then
19:37:49  <peter1138> Weird version
19:37:58  <LinhyCZ> Yeah it is..
19:38:18  <planetmaker> and it disallows joining any 1.4.0 servers, yes? Then you should try to contact that guy
19:38:32  <frosch123> planetmaker: to quote a friend of mine "my sister wanted to become a stablehand, until she figured out that you have to work as stablehand"
19:39:24  <planetmaker> :) Well, I guess my sister rather teaches that ;) Or horse breeding and feeding and treatment strategies. But yeah
19:40:08  <planetmaker> you should listen to her complaining about those type of girls which your friend describes with that statement ;)
19:40:27  <frosch123> i can imagine :)
19:41:33  <rubidium> <- I hope that's not the android version of stable, but I fear it is
19:41:59  <frosch123> yay, 1.5!
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19:42:52  <planetmaker> maybe I should get a tablet somewhen :D
19:42:58  <rubidium> also... it doesn't seem to contain r26439
19:43:09  <LinhyCZ> Yeah.. When I click on server name in browser, on server tab it says - Version Mismatch :/
19:43:26  <planetmaker> LinhyCZ, then the Android 1.4.0 is not actually 1.4.0
19:43:32  <planetmaker> it's mis-named
19:43:32  <rubidium> so congratulations LinhyCZ, you run a nightly development version of a few days ago
19:44:04  <planetmaker> :(
19:44:28  <planetmaker> I'm disappointed tbh
19:44:31  <rubidium> what's the version that it shows in the main menu?
19:44:43  <LinhyCZ> Probably it is.. I downloaded it before 3 hours, or so..
19:44:53  <rubidium> I'd reckon it says r26441
19:45:49  <rubidium> it's getting even worse:
19:46:10  <planetmaker> :-O
19:46:16  <planetmaker> :-(((
19:46:47  <LinhyCZ> And in the Main menu, next to name is gf30d497c (1.4.0 on PC)
19:46:59  <planetmaker> ok, compiled from git, he has to add some version stuff
19:47:21  <rubidium> hmm, true... but still it's ain't anything like 1.4.0
19:51:24  <talebowl> Yesterday I asked a question on here concerning GUIList and StringFilter. It's become now that what I wanted to achieve, would not really be worth the trouble (GUIList would need to support multiple template:F-instances or even types, which I think would be too big a change for a patch), aside from the actual end-result not being very important or interesting (ui-change, no game impact).
19:51:29  <talebowl> That said, I'm looking for another "project", and saw the unified-location-button in the todo-list on the wiki, and as the page advises to check on IRC whether someone is working on an item already: anyone working on that?
19:51:36  <talebowl> Looking through the code, it seems that it could be partially based on the other common top-window-buttons. Also, another part is of course the actual sprite in OpenGFX and the other basesets (I'd suggest the circle with four compass-positioned lines and optional filled circle within (which would probably be too busy for the small sizes of the gui) is common enough to be recognizable). Core-side configuration of this would be in tabl
19:51:36  <talebowl> e/sprites.h, altough the correct position/id would need to be determined after inclusion in the baseset(s). I'm still trying to figure out how that process would go exactly, though I've read a bit about NML and grfcodec. Personally, I'd be more interested in approaching this code-first with a placeholder image in sprites.h at first. Does anyone see any major problems with that approach?
19:51:42  <LinhyCZ> o.O
19:53:27  <planetmaker> talebowl, the sprite itself is the least work. For writing the patch any placeholder will do, for sure
19:54:37  <andythenorth> I don’t understand how this laptop charges so fast
19:56:22  <LinhyCZ> okey, I'm going away.. So, will  be on Google Play version with I  can connect to 1.4.0 servers? :D
19:56:27  <planetmaker> talebowl, placeholder as in re-using an existing sprite. I'm sure there actually are sprites which already act as 'location' button
19:56:46  <planetmaker> LinhyCZ, probably not
19:56:57  <rubidium> LinhyCZ: yes, but it won't be 1.4.0 and therefor you may get kicked out of the game by means of a desync error
19:57:32  <LinhyCZ> Oh come on.. And is there any way, to downgrade the game?
19:58:09  <frosch123> talebowl: <- just look how sprites were added previously
19:58:15  <rubidium> no idea, we don't support the android port
19:58:43  <frosch123> if you have grfcodec installed, the makefile will generate the files after you edited the image source and nfo file
19:58:51  <andythenorth> hmm
19:58:57  <LinhyCZ> oh.. Okey, so I should contact maker of that port..
19:58:59  <andythenorth> ‘auto-refit’ is the accepted term?
19:59:03  * andythenorth is doing buy menu text
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20:01:01  <frosch123> talebowl: <- or look how the "default size" button was added
20:01:08  <andythenorth> also how much ‘type’ info is needed?  None?  Some?
20:01:13  <talebowl> planetmaker, on re-using an existing sprite: absolutely, would create a SpriteID const with the same number as a current one for now. frosch123: Thanks for the links
20:01:43  <planetmaker> <-- might give some ideas on how to add sprites
20:02:09  <planetmaker> frosch's advise is more spot-on :)
20:04:02  <andythenorth> all the FISH ships have type info
20:04:07  <andythenorth> dunno if trains need it?
20:04:21  <planetmaker> type info as in...?
20:04:21  <andythenorth> ‘some diesel loco’, ‘Type: diesel loco’ :P
20:04:23  <frosch123> does fish have a river/sea icon meanwhile?
20:04:27  <andythenorth> frosch123: no :)
20:04:29  <andythenorth> sore point
20:04:42  <andythenorth> did we do ocean yet? :(
20:04:55  <andythenorth> maybe peter1138 would do it?
20:04:56  <frosch123> would you have an ocean icon? :p
20:06:09  <andythenorth> frosch123: you like buy menu icons? o_O
20:06:25  * planetmaker likes buy menu icons, too :D
20:06:44  <andythenorth> ‘Box car’, ‘Type: wagon for most cargos'
20:06:47  <andythenorth> seems stupid
20:07:06  <frosch123> "box car" is something the sprite of name should tell you :p
20:07:18  <frosch123> s/of/or/
20:07:29  <andythenorth> I think I can ditch type info for most of the wagons at least
20:07:35  <frosch123> and you can already see the cargos
20:07:46  <andythenorth> “Passenger car”, “Type: vehicle for carrying passengers” <- orly :P
20:07:47  <frosch123> you could add autorefit info
20:07:56  <andythenorth> auto-refit is alreay mentioned
20:07:58  <frosch123> or loading speed info, if there are differences
20:08:04  <andythenorth> “Offers auto-refit”
20:08:34  <andythenorth> also adjusted payment penalties for refrigerated wagons
20:08:36  <frosch123> is autorefit actually the term in the gui?
20:08:42  <andythenorth> dunno
20:08:46  * andythenorth checks
20:08:51  <frosch123> it's kind of misleading :p
20:08:57  <andythenorth> Auto-refit
20:08:58  <frosch123> i would call it refit-at-stations
20:09:00  <Supercheese> you have to manually add autorefit info to the purchase screen eh
20:09:05  <andythenorth> frosch123: I am thinking same
20:09:14  <frosch123> auto-refit would be more for the "refit to waiting cargo" thingie
20:09:17  <andythenorth> Auto-refit is non-obvious
20:09:27  <frosch123> it's like autoslope :p
20:09:39  <frosch123> lots of "auto" names make no sense :)
20:09:53  <andythenorth> +1
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20:19:22  <__ln__>
20:19:55  <andythenorth> why are you mail-bombing me?
20:19:57  <andythenorth> it’s a sin
20:23:06  <frosch123> ln is interested in learning about uk citizens and their interest
20:23:33  <planetmaker> lol, what a railway line
20:23:40  <andythenorth> it’s my own fault for clicking :(
20:23:43  <andythenorth> I should have read the url
20:23:59  <frosch123> planetmaker: actually, earlier this afternoon ln even posted a good picture :p
20:25:30  <frosch123> 17:47:03 < __ln__>
20:26:22  <planetmaker> lool :)
20:26:53  <peter1138> andythenorth, what woul i do?
20:26:59  <peter1138> Ocean?
20:27:02  <andythenorth> Oceans
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20:27:54  <peter1138> WaterTypes?
20:27:55  <planetmaker> oceans is water with a certain distance from a shore. And allows different ship speed
20:27:57  <planetmaker> kinda
20:29:23  <frosch123> peter1138: the idea was: since people do not play with river or ocean speeds, they may want to play with even more speed classes
20:29:24  <frosch123> or so
20:29:34  <peter1138> Yers...
20:38:53  <andythenorth> strictly, it’s kicking ‘sea speed’ out a few tiles from coast
20:41:37  <andythenorth> maybe there were better ideas than mine
20:41:41  <andythenorth> dunno :)
20:43:05  <frosch123> maybe i misrepresented it :p
20:43:45  <andythenorth> the river ships in FISH are never used
20:43:57  <andythenorth> never / rarely /s
20:45:21  <andythenorth> also bedtime ;)
20:45:22  <andythenorth> bye
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21:08:26  <talebowl> Question about auto-generated files such as src/script/api/game/game_window.hpp.sq: Is that auto-generated by ./configure or by make? How can I force it to regenerate? For some reason WID_TV_CENTER_VIEW won't be deleted from that file, even though it's the only occurrence in the codebase.
21:09:44  <planetmaker> @ talebowl
21:13:15  <planetmaker> ./configure only creates the Makefile
21:13:36  <planetmaker> or Makefiles
21:14:43  <talebowl> planetmaker: Should've clarified: the only occurrence in my local modifications on trunk:
21:14:53  <planetmaker> you can call like 'make clean' and then 'make' to re-build everything
21:15:24  <talebowl> Ok, thanks :)
21:15:35  <planetmaker> hu? You removed it from all other places?
21:17:43  <talebowl> I approached the top-of-window location-button as a widget in the style of resize, redefsize, or shade (but with window-local onClick handling and tooltips). Not entirely sure if that is the right approach though.
21:18:22  <planetmaker> but normally a simple call of 'make' should suffice. And re-generate those files which need it
21:18:33  <planetmaker> might save some compilation time
21:19:34  <talebowl> On one hand, it would be beneficial to outsource a large part of the common code to general widget-related functionality. On the other hand, tooltips and onClick for location should always be window-local, which might not be as clear, because it can be approached as a top-of-window button..
21:21:17  <talebowl> As for the make call: I'd have thought so, yes. Even make clean seems to not have worked though. I'll try again without jobs parameter, but I'd think that wouldn't make a difference
21:23:47  <planetmaker> src/script/api/  ?
21:27:25  <talebowl> Ah, that seems to have done the trick. Thanks!
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23:00:37  <Wolf01> 'night all
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