Log for #openttd on 8th April 2014:
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07:13:17  <dihedral> good morning
07:23:06  <planetmaker> moin
07:30:36  <planetmaker> outch...
07:55:33  <Pulec> quite a hole
07:57:20  <peter1138>
08:02:05  <peter1138> all
08:02:06  <peter1138> keys used with vulnerable processes will need to be replaced
08:02:10  <peter1138> :S
08:02:38  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds tedious
08:05:36  <Xaroth|Work> you might want to note, peter1138, that that site logs all requests made.
08:06:16  <peter1138> Of course.
08:12:31  <Xaroth|Work> is much safer, credits to TB for pasting me that
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09:28:20  <__ln__>
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09:39:57  <peter1138> :-)
09:40:06  <dihedral> __ln__, good job you do not have to upload the certificate too :-D
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11:08:54  <Flygon> You know you've played too much OpenTTD when you keep planning stations in your head
11:08:59  <Flygon> When not doing anything related to it
11:09:05  <Flygon> eg. dishes, driving car, working on work...
11:15:40  <maddy_> yeah that happens to me
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12:04:59  <dihedral> Flygon, you should try using that when applying for a job with your national rail company
12:05:34  <Flygon> Australia National were disbanded over 2 decades ago
12:05:57  <Flygon> And I'm still waiting on my future with my job with PTV (long story. LONG)
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13:29:07  <dihedral> PTV = PayTV? :-D
13:35:19  <peter1138> PornTV. He's a pornstar.
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14:12:37  <Flygon> dihedral: Victoria's Public Transport Operator
14:12:45  <Flygon> Public Transport Victoria
14:13:17  <LordAro> nah, you're totally a pornstar
14:14:43  <Flygon> Stop looking at my FA
14:14:48  <Flygon> Perv
14:14:48  <Flygon> :|
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15:18:20  <Zsub> Hello, I'm running a 1.4.0 dedicated server on ubuntu trusty, with min_active_players set to 1. The server pauses as the last client disconnects, but the (paused) server process uses more CPU than I'd expect from an almost idle process, is that a known 'issue'?
15:19:09  <Zsub> Issue in quotes because it is about 2% CPU on an i7, but the server does prevent the CPU to go to advanced power saving states.
15:20:47  <planetmaker> 2% on a single core for idle when handling in- and outgoing traffic is not extremely much, no?
15:20:58  <planetmaker> the server likely is queried by clients for availability etc
15:21:09  <planetmaker> or did you turn off advertising?
15:21:20  <Zsub> The server is not advertised, indeed
15:22:06  <Zsub> But it causes the amount of time the CPU spends in C6 to drop from ~90 to ~30
15:22:11  <Zsub> percent, both
15:23:53  <Zsub> Wait typo, ~90% to ~50%
15:25:03  <Xaroth|Work> that's most likely due to some parts of the engine still running while waiting for clients to join
15:25:05  <Zsub> My question is also not because I can't spare the capacity, but more related to power usage of the machine as a whole :)
15:25:37  <peter1138> It only performs a minimal sleep.
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15:26:10  <peter1138> There's a CSleep(1) in src/video/dedicated_v.cpp
15:27:09  <peter1138> Could be changed to sleep longer when paused.
15:27:49  <Xaroth|Work> didn't you have a patch for that?
15:30:38  <peter1138> No.
15:31:31  <Zsub> I'm currently downloading and installing the prerequisites to compile so I can test that suggestion
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15:33:51  <planetmaker> mind, if you want a server, you need svn (and not hg or git)
15:35:22  <Zsub> will the source archive also do? or do I need to svn co?
15:35:43  <Xaroth|Work> i'd go with svn co
15:35:53  <Xaroth|Work> mainly since the build scripts checks stuff
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15:47:18  <Zsub> Alright, have built trunk, now I'm just waiting for my system to settle to get a sortof baseline :)
16:09:09  <Zsub> I increased the CSleep peter1138 mentioned to 100 if the current pause mode is PM_PAUSED_ACTIVE_CLIENTS and the number of events per second for openttd drops from 560 to 20
16:10:19  <Zsub> time spent in C6 increased a bit to ~60%
16:10:38  <peter1138> Hmm
16:11:12  <planetmaker> <-- maybe you're satisfied with that, Zsub ?
16:11:33  <peter1138> 10 is less than 100, so... no :)
16:11:51  <Zsub> btw, I assume that is in milliseconds
16:11:53  <planetmaker> :) well, adjust then. I just picked a random number larger than 1 ;)
16:11:56  <peter1138> Yes, it is.
16:12:48  <Zsub> OK, because I couldn't find where that function came from :) googleing 'CSleep' was surprisingly unhelpful :P
16:13:19  <peter1138> It's an OpenTTD thing :)
16:13:23  <planetmaker> src/os/unix/unix.cpp:void CSleep(int milliseconds)
16:13:42  <Zsub> planetmaker: yeah that's pretty much exactly what I did, except with 100
16:14:01  <planetmaker> you probably want to exclude the other pause reasons from slow-down
16:14:26  <Zsub> Yeah, indeed
16:14:45  <planetmaker> maybe one can include PM_PAUSED_GAME_SCRIPT - but not sure. It usually occurs when people are connected :)
16:15:14  <planetmaker> hm. my diff is wrong
16:15:19  <planetmaker> _pause_mode is a bitset
16:16:00  <Zsub> I only used PM_PAUSED_ACTIVE_CLIENTS because it is the most specific to this scenario, I thought
16:16:20  <planetmaker> updated diff
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16:18:12  <Zsub> I'll apply it and recompile, just a sec :)
16:18:29  <planetmaker> I didn't update the sleep time. So yeah, you want 100 or so probably
16:18:46  <Zsub> I'm just going to see what difference it makes
16:20:11  <Zsub> compiler suggests parens around the bitwise &
16:20:50  <planetmaker> hm :) then add them
16:21:13  <Zsub> yeah sure, just letting you know ;)
16:21:27  <planetmaker> mine actually does, too. I didn't re-compile :D
16:22:25  <planetmaker> so does that sleep time need a config option?
16:22:32  <peter1138> No.
16:23:17  <peter1138> But... does it really not fix the C6 time, or was the condition wrong when it wasn't using & ?
16:23:33  <peter1138> Hmm, I guess it did drop the events.
16:26:17  <Zsub> with planetmaker's patch (so CSleep(10)) it's now down to about 450 events/s and 43% C6
16:26:39  <planetmaker> with 100?
16:26:42  <peter1138> 100 or more is probably more reasonable.
16:26:58  <peter1138> As long as any background network stuff can keep up.
16:27:46  <Zsub> no, with 10 ms sleep, but my sickbeard just started searching, i forgot to stop it :)
16:29:59  <Zsub> Does the server autosave on real time intervals, maybe?
16:30:23  <planetmaker> it's in game time
16:30:41  <Zsub> Yeah thought so
16:31:02  <planetmaker> monthly is most frequent
16:31:13  <planetmaker> which is like every minute
16:31:24  <Zsub> Because it is all over the place now, and I don't see any activity on the console
16:31:52  <planetmaker> someone downloading stuff?
16:32:13  <planetmaker> that creates a temporary sav and then uploads it to the client connecting
16:32:45  <Zsub> unlikely, I stopped most services and the console jst states " *** Game paused (number of players)"
16:33:00  <planetmaker> doesn't mean players can't connect :P
16:33:21  <Zsub> but then it should give a message stating it does, afaik
16:33:27  <Zsub> it usually does at least :P
16:33:37  <Zsub> *they do
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16:33:47  <planetmaker> maybe, I usually fork it in background
16:34:44  <Zsub> heh, yeah I kept it in the foreground to keep an eye on it
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16:40:15  <Zsub> planetmaker: there can be multiple reasons to pause at the same time?
16:40:35  <planetmaker> yes
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16:41:20  <planetmaker> at least as far as I remember
16:41:26  <planetmaker> evenink and oddink!
16:41:52  <Alberth> hi hi
16:41:54  <Zsub> I mean, it's possible with a bit enum of course :) Just wondered if it ever would happen :P
16:42:10  <planetmaker> Zsub, yeah can. For instance you paused it and then people leave
16:42:23  <planetmaker> or script paused it and people leave. or so
16:42:27  <Zsub> oh yeah
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16:43:09  <planetmaker> quak
16:43:19  <LordAro> kauq
16:43:20  <Alberth> o/
16:43:31  <Zsub> I started openttd with -D -d 1 and console is silent as the grave after pausing the game, meanwhile, events/s all over the place going from 100 to 500
16:43:48  <Zsub> color me rather perplexed
16:44:19  <planetmaker> try ./openttd -D -d net=6
16:44:27  <planetmaker> to get more network chatter :)
16:44:36  <planetmaker> but no clue if that increases your load
16:45:02  <Zsub> it would, but then I can hopefully see where the fluctuations come from
16:46:44  <frosch123> hola
16:46:51  <frosch123> oi, an albert!
16:47:23  <Alberth> I seem to have missed a release :)
16:47:38  <planetmaker> :)
16:47:44  <planetmaker> how surprising :P
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16:48:24  <frosch123> yeah, no way he moved just to avoid being asked for a release post
16:48:46  <Zsub> Well, -d 6 is informative
16:49:01  <Zsub> it's the sprite cache that keeps getting compacted
16:49:11  <Zsub> every few seconds or so
16:49:24  <planetmaker> uh, in pause state?
16:49:24  <Alberth> hmm, it proves difficult to fool a frosch :p
16:49:41  <Zsub> planetmaker: *** Game paused (number of players)
16:49:41  <planetmaker> hm, but ok, why not...
16:49:41  <Zsub> dbg: [sprite] Compacting sprite cache, inuse=94752
16:49:43  <Zsub> dbg: [sprite] Compacting sprite cache, inuse=94752
16:49:44  <Zsub> dbg: [sprite] Compacting sprite cache, inuse=94752
16:49:45  <Zsub> dbg: [sprite] Compacting sprite cache, inuse=94752
16:49:46  <Zsub> dbg: [sprite] Compacting sprite cache, inuse=94752
16:49:54  <Zsub> oops sorry
16:50:01  <Zsub> but yeah, in pause state :P
16:50:08  <frosch123> you missed the "net="
16:50:14  <planetmaker> Zsub, did you ./configure --enable-dedicated?
16:50:15  <frosch123> you enabled all loggers
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16:51:08  <Zsub> planetmaker: ... MRW:
16:51:27  <Zsub> frosch123: yeah I know, I enabled them on purpose :)
16:52:02  <planetmaker> (our default binaries don't have that either, not sure it changes the sprite cache thing. Just an idea :) )
16:52:46  <Zsub> oh ok, I was afraid I'd done something incredibly unintelligent. I undoubtedly have, but it was not this thing at least :P
16:53:04  <Zsub> Anyway, dinner's ready so bbl
16:53:13  <planetmaker> no, not at all. But on a (dedicated) server you don't need x-windows :)
16:53:42  <planetmaker> and leaving out the video driver stuff might chop away some things, too
16:53:49  <Zsub> nope, still mucks around with the sprite cache
16:54:12  <planetmaker> but what was the time with 100msec CSleep?
16:54:28  <planetmaker> worse than with 10?
16:54:32  <Zsub> idk, I've kept it at 10 for now
16:54:43  <Zsub> it takes some time to settle after compiling and starting
16:55:10  <planetmaker> well, enjoy your dinner first :)
16:55:18  <Zsub> thanks very much for your help! bbl :)
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17:29:44  <Phreeze> nevening
17:34:31  <peter1138> So... did that fix his issue or not? :p
17:35:42  <planetmaker> maybe :)
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17:35:58  <planetmaker> I was actually waiting for his feedback
17:36:28  <peter1138> Quite!
17:36:46  <Wolf01> hi hi
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17:44:06  <Alberth> hi hi sir Wolf
17:45:12  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26447 trunk/src/lang/basque.txt (2014-04-08 17:45:08 UTC)
17:45:13  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:14  <DorpsGek> basque - 56 changes by laxkax
17:47:28  <Phreeze> i was always wondering, if those languages missing maaaaany strings shouldn't just be "put on ice" ....
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17:48:54  <Phreeze> hm i see urdu etc. have disappeared from the mainpage
17:49:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: but a language being available might prompt people to sign up for improving it
17:49:56  <Phreeze> that was my thoughts too, but then i realized, that people probably think of translating, when they see that there are already mannnnnyyy ingame
17:49:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: maybe with a message "this language lacks many strings, sign up for translator"
17:50:23  <Phreeze> with geo-ip, you can create a string in php ^^
17:50:56  <Phreeze> "hello Mr. X from the persian region, we need your support to translate openttd!"
17:50:57  <rubidium> hi, you are in Quebec... so please help with the French translation...
17:51:03  <Phreeze> lol
17:51:21  <Eddi|zuHause> err... :p
17:51:34  <rubidium> although... based on the fact that your OS is Chinese, you might not be quite so good in "Old" French
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17:51:58  <Phreeze> Hello german bretzel ! if you are from bavaria, pls leave now. if not, feel free to translate to your dialect
17:52:07  <Phreeze> scnr
17:52:17  <Pikka> zounds
17:52:27  <Phreeze> u2
17:53:04  <Pikka> si
17:54:08  <peter1138> Pikka, running sounds
17:54:14  <Pikka> does it?
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18:05:37  * frosch123 ponders a temperate-to-fairyland-conversion set
18:05:53  <planetmaker> :)
18:07:09  <frosch123> maybe i can photoshop some teasers to start a forum topic
18:07:29  <Alberth> just hussle the graphics of the climates? :)
18:10:46  <Phreeze> fairyland xD
18:10:52  <Phreeze> remembers me of Hook / Peter Pan
18:12:25  <frosch123> does it also make you say "crivens!" ?
18:13:01  <Pikka> or zounds
18:16:11  <Zsub> it seems you even need a graphics set if you `./configure --enable-dedicated` which seems a bit weird to me, what does the server use the graphics set for? :)
18:17:37  <Alberth> it also contains stats etc for vehicles, ie they are not just graphics
18:17:51  <Zsub> Ah I didn't know :)
18:17:56  *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
18:17:56  <Zsub> Thanks
18:19:30  <Alberth> and if you add newgrfs, they tend to have loads of callback code for all kinds of behaviour in the game
18:21:35  <Phreeze> gfx need to be coded, and in the code, the stats for those vehicles etc. are given. but anyway, i could image that those base stats and callback could be included in another separate piece of code
18:21:56  <Zsub> planetmaker: I used your latest diff ( with `./configure --enable-dedicated` and the server seems to be pretty well behaved right now
18:22:15  <planetmaker> what sleep improvement does it give?
18:22:25  <planetmaker> with 10? with 100?
18:22:30  <Zsub> 100
18:22:59  <Zsub> and it is pretty stable at 20 events/s
18:25:00  <Zsub> It looks like there's about 1min 15s between compacting the sprite cache now
18:25:30  <Zsub> and the CPU spends 80-82% in C6 now, up from barely 50%
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18:30:19  <Zsub> With 10ms sleep there's 22 seconds between sprite cache compacting, and about 135 events/s, with the cpu in C6 about 75% of the time
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18:41:27  <Zsub> oh wow... I ran powertop with the display updating every second, which caused the CPU to not go into a low-power state, which means openttd had more CPU power and generated more events... Everything is connected and influencing everything else, yay
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18:42:27  <Phreeze> some drawing expert here ?
18:44:25  <Zsub> But anyway. For me increasing the sleep works like a charm, planetmaker
18:46:00  <planetmaker> I see, sweet
18:47:01  <planetmaker> Phreeze, generally meta questions suck
18:47:18  <planetmaker> to answer your question 'yes'. But not me
18:48:37  <Phreeze> i need to draw some..err.. "stromabnehmer"...
18:48:49  <planetmaker> pantographs
18:49:00  <Phreeze> yep
18:49:08  <planetmaker> Zsub, as you probably still have it running
18:49:23  <planetmaker> how does it work, if you activate 'build during pause'? :D
18:49:39  <Zsub> hehe
18:49:39  <planetmaker> how sluggish does the client feel? :D
18:50:02  <Zsub> I'm trying to get my client to log in as the revision is not _exactly_ equal :P
18:50:18  <planetmaker> you can't login then
18:50:23  <planetmaker> you need the same revision
18:50:35  <planetmaker> compile without --enable-dedicated and use the same binary then
18:51:03  <Zsub> Heh, would if I could
18:51:48  <planetmaker> is your server reachable?
18:52:24  <Zsub> in principle, yes
18:52:48  <Zsub> except I'm now compiling the same revision as the latest precompiled os x client :)
18:53:03  <Zsub> then it should work I think
18:53:05  <planetmaker> that won't help you
18:53:11  <planetmaker> modified != unmodified
18:53:57  <Zsub> hmm, bother. I thought I was being smart, not smart enough :P
18:56:01  <peter1138> Why do we have the sprite cache for dedicated servers again?
18:56:06  <peter1138> (Wait, is it dedicated?)
18:56:10  <Zsub> ok, there's a server running built from the latest trunk, r26447, with CSleep(100)
18:56:13  <peter1138> Hmm, must be.
18:56:27  <Zsub> peter1138: yeah I'm running a dedicated server, if that's what you mean
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18:58:57  <andythenorth> o/
18:59:08  <planetmaker> \o
19:01:11  <andythenorth> is today a fun heartbleed day? o_O
19:03:19  <planetmaker> quite
19:03:38  <planetmaker> you had fun, too? :D
19:04:51  <planetmaker> nvm your server, Zsub. Simulating localls
19:04:54  <planetmaker> locally
19:05:56  <planetmaker> frosch123, doesn't seem to be an issue with build-in-pause
19:06:54  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
19:08:24  <planetmaker> no real delay with a local dedicated server with that patch, paused due to client count and enabled every action during pause
19:08:28  <frosch123> why are you only checking for two pause modes btw?
19:08:47  <frosch123> what makes them different?
19:08:52  <planetmaker> my assumption is that those two are the ones which usually result in little or no player activity
19:09:09  <planetmaker> pause-on-join surely makes no sense to then let the server sleep
19:09:38  <planetmaker> saveload pause should not cause it either
19:09:40  <frosch123> well, then you should check for !pause-on-join
19:09:54  <planetmaker> game script and error - not sure. They usually will be not unattended
19:09:59  <frosch123> they are ored, so you still delay on join if it is also paused for other reason
19:10:21  <frosch123> also definitely add a comment
19:10:37  <frosch123> if i had to add a new pause reason, i would have no idea whether to add it there or not :)
19:10:56  <frosch123> the selection of pause modes looks quite arbitrary to me
19:11:09  <planetmaker> saveload is not a good reason to idle
19:11:13  <planetmaker> join neither
19:11:19  <planetmaker> as there we actually want to get stuff done
19:11:30  <planetmaker> the others can be argued
19:11:32  <frosch123> why?
19:11:37  <frosch123> saveload is done in another thread
19:11:53  <frosch123> not sure about join actually
19:12:02  <Zsub> planetmaker: I was just about to report that it seems to work fine :P
19:12:07  <frosch123> but, well just add a coment explaining the intention
19:12:27  <frosch123> i just think that it is non-obvious
19:12:48  <planetmaker> the intention is to only idle / allow sleep when we expect that the pause mode can persist longer than transiently
19:12:51  <frosch123> even though the corner cases likely do ot matter much
19:13:55  <frosch123> how about "_pause_mode != 0 && !(_pause_mode & (PM_PAUSE_JOIN | PM_PAUSE_SAVE | ...))" ?
19:14:06  <frosch123> i..e list the cases where it should not sleep
19:14:13  <planetmaker> fine with me
19:14:32  <planetmaker> then let's only list those two
19:14:36  <frosch123> currently you also delay while joining when paused for lack for clients at the same time
19:14:40  <frosch123> which sounds weird to me
19:14:44  <planetmaker> with explanation that they're supposedly transient
19:15:02  <Zsub> planetmaker: maybe it is an even better idea to only increase the sleep if no clients are connected?
19:15:18  <planetmaker> that actually is probably the best idea
19:15:32  <Zsub> That would entirely sidestep the issue of build actions during pause being/becoming slow/sluggish
19:15:39  <planetmaker> _pause_mode != 0 && client_count != 0
19:15:52  <frosch123> yeah, that makes more sense
19:15:58  <planetmaker> ok
19:15:59  <frosch123> though i have no idea whether client_count is 0 or 1
19:15:59  <peter1138> Oh... you can build while paused...
19:16:02  <planetmaker> I fully agree
19:16:12  <planetmaker> yeah, I need to figure that out :)
19:16:15  <frosch123> peter1138: team up with eddi
19:16:16  <Zsub> The same could go for the cache compacting, probably
19:16:24  *** Myhorta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:16:34  <peter1138> ?
19:16:35  <planetmaker> Zsub, nah, that's different
19:16:53  <planetmaker> could be looked at. But definitely another patch
19:16:55  <Zsub> ah ok :)
19:17:12  <frosch123> peter1138: eddi also learns about features from years ago
19:17:29  <frosch123> though argueably, usually he suggests them
19:18:23  <peter1138> Ah, I usually patch them, and then... that's it.
19:18:33  <andythenorth> Pikka lo bob
19:18:44  <Pikka> lobob
19:18:56  <andythenorth> what is doing?
19:19:04  <frosch123> how is your mom doing?
19:19:08  <Pikka> remembering I left stuff out of fridge
19:19:09  <Pikka> brb
19:19:29  <andythenorth> hope not ice cream
19:23:31  <Pikka> not
19:23:49  <Pikka> bongiorno
19:24:53  <andythenorth> is doing what?
19:25:30  <planetmaker> actually, checking for client count then is not needed.
19:25:55  <planetmaker> as min_active_clients is a pause reason, thus already covered by _pause_mode != 0
19:26:16  <planetmaker> so only _pause_mode != 0 is the check we need
19:26:21  <Pikka> is doing not much at the moment... eating sammich and thinking about what do.
19:26:29  <Pikka> et tu? many horses?
19:26:36  <andythenorth> is thinking buy costs
19:26:39  <andythenorth> and run costs
19:26:47  <planetmaker> hm... and the exceptions :)
19:26:49  <frosch123> planetmaker: depend on whether client_count counts connecting clients
19:26:51  <andythenorth> I liked V’s idea, just add 1 to cost for each model
19:26:58  <andythenorth> in order
19:27:02  <Zsub> planetmaker: min_active_clients = 2
19:27:07  <Pikka> tres linear
19:27:18  <Zsub> and allow everything during pause
19:27:22  <planetmaker> frosch123, network.cpp checks min_active_clients == 0
19:27:27  <andythenorth> Pikka: wondering if costs even matter :P
19:27:34  <andythenorth> IH is plenty much fun in multiplayer GS
19:27:39  <andythenorth> and costs are bollocksed
19:27:51  <Pikka> I don't know whether they matter
19:28:08  <planetmaker> which actually is done the in the function which sets the pause mode :)
19:28:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26448 /trunk/src (linkgraph/flowmapper.cpp station_cmd.cpp) (2014-04-08 19:28:14 UTC)
19:28:18  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5970]: Avoid division by 0 when scaling flow values.
19:28:24  <andythenorth> I think they matter a bit
19:28:39  <Pikka> less so in GS
19:28:42  <andythenorth> anyone figured out how original game set costs?
19:28:52  <andythenorth> was it a formula, or just guesses?
19:29:05  <frosch123> planetmaker: i checks NetworkCountActiveClients
19:29:07  <frosch123> *it
19:29:14  <planetmaker> min_active_clients = 0 means that server never pauses
19:29:16  <Pikka> perhaps we should work it out, andythenorth
19:29:19  <andythenorth> praps
19:29:21  <andythenorth> or invent own
19:29:27  <Pikka> gettatable of stats, look for pattern
19:29:28  <planetmaker> frosch123, exactly
19:29:39  <andythenorth> Pikka: I’m not so stats :P
19:29:51  <andythenorth> sounds like a job for Real Programmers
19:30:36  <planetmaker> CheckPauseHelper(NetworkCountActiveClients() <, PM_PAUSED_ACTIVE_CLIENTS);
19:30:51  <planetmaker> line 425
19:30:53  <frosch123> what are you trying to tell me?
19:31:08  <andythenorth> Pikka: do you have Pineapples equivalent of Floss 47?
19:31:08  <planetmaker> that an explicit check for client number is not needed in our case
19:31:22  <frosch123> why?
19:31:25  <Pikka> "equivalent" how?
19:31:43  <frosch123> the last idea was "pause when no clients connected"
19:31:55  <frosch123> now you want to change it agani to "pause when not sufficient clients connected" or something?
19:32:09  <planetmaker> meh, yeah
19:32:12  <andythenorth> Pikka: kind of ‘in the middle’ wrt costs, power etc
19:32:16  <Zsub> frosch123: wasn't the last idea to increase the sleep while no clients connected?
19:32:26  <planetmaker> yup
19:32:27  <Zsub> And leave the whole paused state alone?
19:32:47  <planetmaker> no. pause state must be queried to be active
19:32:47  <Pikka> I don't think I have enough vehicles for there to be a middle
19:33:02  <planetmaker> but no clients must be connected, too :)
19:33:23  <Pikka> the pineapple trains are generally underpowered compared to TTD/"reality". makes them more interesting imo if they don't all hit top speed halfway out of the station...
19:33:53  * andythenorth looks
19:33:55  <andythenorth> oic
19:34:07  <andythenorth> you really don’t have any duffs or SD40s or anything
19:34:13  <andythenorth> how nice
19:34:22  <Zsub> But then, as far as I can see/understand, you need to check both the pause state as well as the number of connected clients, right?
19:35:05  <peter1138> WD40?
19:35:17  <planetmaker> yes
19:35:19  <frosch123> i guess checking pause state is needed for the case "also run with no clients connected"
19:35:24  <andythenorth> Pikka: AMF Lincoln looks like universal train to me :P
19:35:31  <Zsub> Because you do not want to increase the sleep if someone wants their server to remain running while no clients are connected
19:35:37  <andythenorth> no matter how hard you try, there’s always a universal train :P
19:35:38  <peter1138> frosch123, you mean the default? :D
19:35:46  <Pikka> andythenorth, that's where costs come in. :)
19:36:25  <frosch123> peter1138: that's just to scare people away for hosting even more empty servers
19:37:30  <Pikka> universality also isn't as much of a problem for me because I have fewer locos. every loco gets a couple of decades during which it is the "best".
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19:39:16  <Pikka> Lincoln is nearly twice as powerful (and twice as expensive) as Chief. When the Lincoln comes out, you can use it to replace doubleheaders or use it for new routes, but if you have a network built around Chiefs, you're not going to want/need to replace them 1:1. so it's either keep using Chiefs for a while, or redesign your network somewhat.
19:39:33  <Pikka> more interesting than a 10% improvement in every stat every 10 years. ;)
19:40:05  <andythenorth> +1
19:40:13  <Zsub> If I understand correctly, there are a few possible combinations:
19:40:14  <Zsub> 1. Game not paused and clients connected, so CSleep(1)
19:40:15  <Zsub> 2. Game paused and clients connected, CSleep(1)
19:40:16  <Zsub> 3. Game paused, no clients connected, CSleep(100)
19:40:17  <Zsub> 4. Game not paused, no clients connected, CSleep(1)
19:41:06  <Zsub> I think that's them all?
19:41:13  <frosch123> your nick is way too close to "Zuu" btw
19:41:20  <planetmaker> yeah :P
19:41:36  <Zsub> Zuu?
19:41:52  <planetmaker> he's not here right now :)
19:42:16  <Zsub> Ah ok :) It's usually pretty unique, fortunately :P
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19:42:45  <planetmaker> Zuu is also pretty unique :P
19:42:58  <planetmaker> but quite common around here :)
19:43:06  <Zsub> hehe
19:43:08  * planetmaker points to contributor list
19:43:47  <planetmaker> <-- patch got bigger
19:44:21  <andythenorth> Pikka: I was going to just peg the cost of my engines to yours :P
19:44:29  <andythenorth> I don’t think that quite works
19:44:53  <Pikka> :P
19:45:07  <andythenorth> would have saved me the work :P
19:45:20  <Pikka> well I gave you the formula that I use for costs... but since your locos are more powerful, they end up with sillycosts
19:45:31  <andythenorth> that yes
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19:45:42  <andythenorth> I can make my own formula using hp and speed and crap
19:45:50  <Alberth> we do have NUTS, but SILLY is still free
19:45:55  <andythenorth> but I might just use buy menu position multiplied by x
19:46:00  <andythenorth> SILLY Alberth
19:46:09  <andythenorth> you don’t have a newgrf yet, you should start
19:46:23  <planetmaker> I thought in the Netherlands they have CRACK? :P
19:46:27  <planetmaker> or WEED
19:46:39  <Alberth> I think I have 2, no idea where they are though :p
19:46:48  <andythenorth> hmm
19:47:00  <Alberth> planetmaker: not to mention SEX
19:47:03  <andythenorth> Pikka: is the Floss 47 grossly too cheap?
19:47:08  <planetmaker> oh noes!
19:47:10  <frosch123> planetmaker: no idea whether to count clients already in STATUS_AUTHORIZED..STATUS_PRE_ACTIVE state
19:47:24  <Pikka> all the TTD locos are, isn't it?
19:47:45  <rubidium> frosch123: you probably should... downloading the map and such
19:47:55  <andythenorth> £10k on low costs
19:48:18  <Pikka> who plays on low costs?
19:48:28  <andythenorth> people who lost the last GS
19:48:47  <andythenorth> on a sensible PAX route, its going to make £80k / year
19:48:49  <andythenorth> too cheap
19:49:22  <planetmaker> frosch123, any client connection and attempts should matter probably
19:49:51  <frosch123> so even more code :p
19:49:51  <planetmaker> it's not like we really need to stretch the sleep to its extreme either
19:50:07  <planetmaker> :D
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19:50:43  <Zsub> planetmaker: diff looks good to me, applies cleanly (duh :P ) and compiler doesn't complain :)
19:51:15  <planetmaker> so... checking for NetworkHasJoiningClients() as well?
19:51:25  <planetmaker> Or should we just ignore that corner case?
19:51:27  <frosch123> write a new function?
19:51:31  <rubidium> clientpool.isempty()?
19:51:39  <frosch123> or that
19:52:03  <Zsub> isn't the worst case for joining clients that they have to wait 100ms for one cycle of the main loop?
19:52:23  <planetmaker> packet sending is slow in worst case
19:52:48  <Alberth> +static inline uint NetworkCountActiveClients() {}  <-- shouldn't it return some integer?
19:53:10  <planetmaker> it should
19:53:17  <rubidium> Zsub: for savegame downloading that 100ms is going to be pain
19:54:00  <Zsub> rubidium: oh, ah a client is considered 'joining' while downloading the save then, not already joined
19:54:01  <Zsub> ?
19:54:11  <rubidium> yup
19:54:19  <Zsub> because I can see how that is going to get _really_ old _really_ fast
19:54:20  <rubidium> it's not seen as active at least
19:55:05  <rubidium> does it bother you (a lot) when it doesn't go into deep sleep when one client is joined, but it is paused?
19:55:44  <Zsub> me? no, I don't expect that to happen a lot
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19:57:00  <planetmaker> rubidium, where is that client pool defined?
19:57:30  <Zsub> rubidium: you mean that a client joins, plays some and then clicks pause? Because I didn't think that was possible
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19:57:45  <planetmaker> ah... I get somewhere
19:58:45  <Phreeze> openttd.exe has 0 kb...
19:58:55  <Phreeze> .from my nightly folder, which is never modified in any way
19:59:14  <rubidium> planetmaker: <- something like that?
19:59:30  <frosch123> Phreeze: quite good compression isn't it?
20:00:09  <frosch123> "FOR_ALL_CLIENT_SOCKETS(cs) return true;" <- that line scares me :p
20:02:03  <Phreeze> bezt komprÀschn evaaaa :-/
20:02:40  <Zsub> I'm logging off in a minute, but not before thanking you guys again: thanks for your work!
20:04:19  <frosch123> yeah, we had great fun standing around pm in a circle, and point out things :)
20:05:01  *** Zsub [] has quit [Quit: Zsub]
20:05:33  <planetmaker> I can live with that :)
20:07:24  <peter1138> so the 1-liner was crap? :p
20:10:13  <planetmaker> <-- another update
20:10:32  <planetmaker> using rubi's suggestion on checking for client activity
20:10:51  <frosch123> at least fix his coding style :p
20:11:29  <frosch123> +uint NetworkCountActiveClients() <- that hunk is no longer needed
20:11:56  <frosch123> +bool HasClients() { <- i meant he missing \n
20:11:56  <planetmaker> oh, missed that, thx
20:13:34  <planetmaker> so we now have spend enough time on it to want this patch? :D
20:13:51  <planetmaker> (updated with the last fixes)
20:13:52  <frosch123> yeah, submit it to fs
20:14:11  <planetmaker> :D
20:14:17  <frosch123> you should also post it in .dev, for review
20:14:48  <planetmaker> in the suggestions forum
20:14:57  <frosch123> anyway, i am running out on issues to point out :p
20:15:16  <planetmaker> :)
20:19:43  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r26449 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2014-04-08 20:19:41 UTC)
20:19:44  <DorpsGek> -Add: Allow more sound sleep for dedicated servers when there's nothing to do and nobody paying attention
20:19:48  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
20:20:46  <planetmaker> thank you all for the lively and fruitful discussion :)
20:26:58  *** Supercheese [~Superchee@] has joined #openttd
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20:31:54  <andythenorth> action 0 property too large :(
20:31:58  <andythenorth> what a knobber
20:32:13  * andythenorth has to visit spec
20:33:56  *** kruger is now known as NGC3982
20:34:01  <NGC3982> Evening.
20:35:01  <andythenorth> bah
20:35:12  <andythenorth> what I need is an algorithm to spread the cost factor across the vehicles
20:35:24  <andythenorth> based on HP and speed
20:35:30  <andythenorth> capped at 255
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20:35:33  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
20:36:00  <frosch123> btw i consider writing a blog on why construction costs are a bad feature :)
20:36:21  <planetmaker> don't feel held back on that :)
20:36:50  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURES
20:37:00  <andythenorth> frosch123: I await your blog with interest :)
20:37:05  <NGC3982> I had yet to be greeted with "bah" whilst connecting to IRC.
20:37:07  <NGC3982> :D.
20:37:19  <planetmaker> :)
20:37:25  <andythenorth> I am now officially bored of trying to construct these costs in code
20:37:36  <frosch123> NGC3982: i rather wondered about the missing Ì in your name
20:37:41  * planetmaker makes an official note
20:37:42  <andythenorth> and doing it manually puts a brake on expanding the code
20:37:45  <andythenorth> planetmaker: thanks
20:37:47  <andythenorth> appreciated
20:37:52  <andythenorth> for the record
20:38:09  <peter1138> Remove all costs, they just prevent fun.
20:38:21  <NGC3982> frosch123: NGÜ3982?
20:38:35  <frosch123> no, krÃŒger
20:38:40  <peter1138> freddie
20:38:44  <NGC3982> Oh.
20:38:45  <peter1138> or was it freddy?
20:38:46  <NGC3982> Yes, indeed.
20:38:49  <NGC3982> It's after Ivar.
20:39:25  <andythenorth> removing costs is
.possible :P
20:39:33  <peter1138> DO IT
20:39:40  <peter1138> Also remove boats planes and road vehicles
20:39:42  <NGC3982> :(
20:39:48  <andythenorth> peter1138: moar boats
20:39:53  <andythenorth> less planetmaker
20:39:55  <andythenorth> oops
20:39:57  <andythenorth> less planes
20:39:59  <peter1138> Articulated vehicles
20:40:01  <planetmaker> :(
20:40:03  <frosch123> lol
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20:40:20  <peter1138> Tractive effort just confuses people, take it out.
20:40:26  *** planetmaker is now known as planetmake
20:40:29  <peter1138> Also 32bpp cos it forces people to render.
20:40:41  <Pikka> yep
20:40:47  * planetmake feels less
20:40:51  <frosch123> peter1138: most important, all settings that are different to original ttd shall be basic settings
20:40:53  <Pikka> it's a terrible feature because it forces people to render, and the renders look bad
20:41:02  *** NGC3982 is now known as NGC398
20:41:14  <andythenorth> tractive effort :P
20:41:15  <NGC398> Feel free to bask in your OCD anger.
20:41:18  <peter1138> remove everything that isn't in ttd basically
20:41:28  *** Guest5893 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:41:38  <frosch123> such as "savegame date format"
20:41:39  <andythenorth> are we trolling each other, or serious?
20:41:46  *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:6979:842d] has joined #openttd
20:41:48  * andythenorth could +1 this stuff
20:41:49  <andythenorth> :P
20:41:50  <frosch123> andythenorth: what's that?
20:41:52  <andythenorth> eh?
20:41:54  <andythenorth> what?
20:42:00  *** NGC398 is now known as NGC3982
20:42:02  <frosch123> about the "serious" ?
20:42:05  <peter1138> path signals make people dumb cos they don't bother learning to make simple priority LL_RRLLXXAAZZ feeder systems
20:42:05  * andythenorth plays Doom
20:42:12  <peter1138> so take them out
20:42:14  *** planetmake is now known as planetmaker
20:42:33  *** Phreeze [] has quit []
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20:51:13  * peter1138 ponders committing all of his patches in one go.
20:57:22  <planetmaker> 32bpp CC? :)
20:57:43  <Supercheese> RGB Company Colors? Yes please
20:58:03  <frosch123> what, ttd did not have that!
20:58:33  <Pikka> company colours looks like thomas, it's a bad feature
20:59:10  <Supercheese> was there ever any full TtTE grf?
20:59:19  <Pikka> nope
20:59:22  <Supercheese> oh wait they've changed the name to T&F haven't they
20:59:24  <Supercheese> bah
20:59:26  <Supercheese> "friends"
20:59:31  <Pikka> thomas and fiends
20:59:37  <Supercheese> indeed
21:00:19  <planetmaker> lol
21:00:24  <Supercheese> they have any maglev "friends" yet?
21:00:30  <Supercheese> isn't that the logical progression?
21:00:37  <Supercheese> show's been going for decades
21:00:42  <andythenorth> hmm
21:00:51  <Supercheese> should see vacuum tubes in a couple
21:00:53  <andythenorth> I don’t know why I bother with Military Base
21:00:55  <andythenorth> bored
21:01:00  <Supercheese> although then they'd be unable to talk
21:01:34  <andythenorth> the thing with Doom is
21:01:39  <andythenorth> you get the shotgun on level 1
21:01:52  <andythenorth> and the chaingun and chainsaw on level 2
21:02:05  <Supercheese> and then the chainsawshotgun?
21:02:10  <andythenorth> the chaingun is probably the most effective for most of the game
21:02:22  <andythenorth> designers of grfs should take note
21:02:35  <andythenorth> and stop providing shit vehicles for early part of game :)
21:02:37  *** zeknurn [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:02:41  <Supercheese> Chainsawsuit
21:02:52  <Supercheese> Chainsaw trian
21:02:53  <planetmaker> so... thomas the chainsaw engine? :P
21:02:55  <Supercheese> train*
21:02:59  <Pikka> yebbut
21:03:00  <Supercheese> and yes
21:03:10  <Supercheese> Trainsaw, if you will
21:03:19  *** zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
21:03:23  <Pikka> "early part of the game" is ill-defined. half the people who play TTD start in 2100 and build nothing but maglevs.
21:03:31  <andythenorth> oh yeah that :P
21:03:35  * andythenorth is biased
21:04:04  <andythenorth> can I be bothered to automate costs?
21:04:08  <andythenorth> or will I just type them in ?
21:04:31  <Supercheese> cost = rand(255);
21:04:33  <peter1138> planetmaker, Supercheese, didn't think anyone wanted that
21:04:37  <peter1138> plus it wouldn't work with Pikka's stuff
21:05:19  <Pikka> well
21:05:30  <Pikka> stations, base set, that kind of ilk, it will work with those :)
21:05:30  <peter1138> which is basically the only 32bpp that matters
21:06:00  <Supercheese> the only 32bpp that matters is alpha channel so I can fake my underground subways. I am not biased in any way.
21:06:35  <Pikka> peter1138, does it work with 8bpp grfs
21:06:40  <Pikka> if you're using the 32bpp blitter?
21:06:43  <peter1138> Yup.
21:07:07  <Pikka> smashing
21:07:41  <Supercheese> pumpkins
21:08:34  *** Aristide [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:09:09  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26450 /trunk/src (11 files in 4 dirs) (2014-04-08 21:09:06 UTC)
21:09:10  <DorpsGek> -Feature: Hierarchical vehicle subgroups.
21:09:49  <peter1138> Whoops
21:09:59  <peter1138> Slipped
21:10:03  <andythenorth> ha ha
21:10:16  <andythenorth> now the foamers will be happy
21:10:27  *** JGR_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:10:38  <peter1138> The what?
21:11:14  <andythenorth> the ones who are making an accurate scale model of some (usually british) trains
21:11:43  *** JGR [] has joined #openttd
21:12:16  <peter1138> Hmm.
21:13:14  <Pikka> what's a hierarchical vehicle subgroup when it's at home?
21:14:00  * andythenorth compiles
21:14:25  <frosch123> what do the hierarchical groups do?
21:14:30  <frosch123> autoreplace?
21:14:42  <frosch123> hmm, what do groups generally do?
21:14:54  <frosch123> i forgot what their purpose is :p
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21:15:21  <frosch123> is autoreplace their only feature?
21:15:28  <frosch123> hmm, send to depot maybe as well
21:15:31  <andythenorth> and organisng
21:15:38  <andythenorth> it’s very important to organise your trains, for some people
21:15:45  <andythenorth> so you can create realistic diagrams
21:15:54  <frosch123> ah, organizing for organizational purposes, i guess?
21:16:00  <peter1138> Oh wait, I remember the problem
21:16:14  <peter1138> Someone went and added some microoptimised SSE code to the blitter. Bugger.
21:16:25  <andythenorth> frosch123: it’s like filing your email into cascading folders
21:16:51  <peter1138> heirarchical groups, is like groups
21:16:57  <peter1138> except you can subgroup things
21:17:00  <frosch123> oh, i figured emails are best filtered by sender and receiver
21:17:00  * andythenorth tries it
21:17:03  <frosch123> not by subject
21:17:07  <andythenorth> works fine peter1138
21:17:14  <andythenorth> you will have made some people very very happy
21:17:18  <peter1138> and then do mass start/stop/replace/etc on sets of groups at once
21:17:23  <andythenorth> there was a long and bad discussion about it a few years ago here
21:17:29  <frosch123> receiver "all employees" go into spam folder
21:17:34  <peter1138> Oddly enough, I wrote that years ago too.
21:17:56  <peter1138> Okay so this code is missing a code path but still works. Huh.
21:18:04  <frosch123> receiver "all employees" and sender "doorman" or "admin" go into "annoying spam"
21:18:12  <andythenorth> frosch123: all my mails have a rule now
21:18:18  <andythenorth> ‘mark read, autoreply'
21:18:40  <andythenorth> let’s see
21:18:50  <andythenorth> @calc 2*5*52
21:18:50  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 520
21:19:03  <Pikka> <andythenorth> it’s very important to organise your trains, for some people <- my favourite bug report
21:19:04  <andythenorth> I got back 21 days a year
21:19:19  <Pikka> "I can't use refit because, imo, it puts the cost on the wrong line in the finance window"
21:19:31  <andythenorth> Pikka: I do wonder
21:19:42  <andythenorth> there is too much fun in the game
21:19:42  <peter1138> How does 32bppSSE2 work? It doesn't appear to have any rendering code
21:19:49  <andythenorth> we should remove more fun
21:20:01  *** Ttech [] has quit [Quit: Este é o fim.]
21:20:05  <andythenorth> this reality simulator is too much like a game
21:20:19  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
21:20:58  <peter1138> Oh god this SSE is impenetrable :(
21:21:02  <peter1138> in?
21:21:12  <Pikka> im
21:21:17  <andythenorth> ip
21:21:30  <peter1138> #define ALPHA_CONTROL_MASK          _mm_setr_epi8( 6,  7,  6,  7,  6,  7, -1, -1, 14, 15, 14, 15, 14, 15, -1, -1)
21:21:33  <peter1138> what the
21:21:52  <frosch123> it's not hex :)
21:22:28  <andythenorth> more sleeping?
21:22:29  <peter1138> No but
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21:23:44  <Pikka> andythenorth: apart from anything else, making refits cost is a bad feature :D
21:24:38  <andythenorth> BAD
21:24:56  <Pikka> treble
21:25:04  <Pikka> a treble feeture
21:25:07  <planetmaker> peter1138 should also add more doxygen descriptions
21:25:13  <andythenorth> also bedtime
21:25:16  <Pikka> g
21:25:18  <Pikka> '
21:25:18  <andythenorth> can someone fix Iron Horse, thanks
21:25:19  <Pikka> night
21:25:19  <andythenorth> bye
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21:25:24  <peter1138> planetmaker, too busy getting pissed at sse
21:25:28  <planetmaker> +bool GroupIsInGroup(GroupID search, GroupID group)
21:25:46  <planetmaker> it adds proven speed-up
21:25:47  <peter1138> 397 #if (SSE_VERSION == 2)
21:25:47  <peter1138> 398 void Blitter_32bppSSE2::Draw(Blitter::BlitterParams *bp, BlitterMode mode, ZoomLevel zoom)
21:25:50  <peter1138> 399 #elif (SSE_VERSION == 3)
21:25:53  <peter1138> 400 void Blitter_32bppSSSE3::Draw(Blitter::BlitterParams *bp, BlitterMode mode, ZoomLevel zoom)
21:25:56  <peter1138> 401 #elif (SSE_VERSION == 4)
21:25:58  <peter1138> 402 void Blitter_32bppSSE4::Draw(Blitter::BlitterParams *bp, BlitterMode mode, ZoomLevel zoom)
21:26:01  <peter1138> 403 #endif
21:26:04  <peter1138> planetmaker, yes, but it's impossible to alter
21:26:06  <peter1138> cool cool
21:26:09  <peter1138> so cool
21:26:16  <planetmaker> quite difficult to do, yeah
21:26:23  <peter1138> And I need to do so
21:26:39  <peter1138> Or I just commit stubs that crash openttd.
21:26:40  <peter1138> Tempting.
21:26:47  <planetmaker> what do you need to alter it for?
21:26:57  <peter1138> crash remap code
21:27:38  <peter1138> 27-Dec-2011 19:23
21:27:44  <peter1138> probably shouldn't've sat on it
21:28:32  <peter1138>
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21:29:49  <frosch123> same for newspaper?
21:30:04  <planetmaker> what problem does it solve?
21:30:21  <frosch123> i guess it makes 32bpp vehicles grey when they crash
21:30:26  <frosch123> instead of keeping them coloured
21:31:05  <peter1138> Yup.
21:31:16  <peter1138> Dunno about newspaper.
21:31:27  <planetmaker> uses the same remap iirc
21:31:28  <peter1138> No, newspaper works.
21:31:40  <planetmaker> if not coloured
21:31:48  <peter1138> Newspaper draws normally and then changes the colour after.
21:31:50  <peter1138> IIRC.
21:31:54  <frosch123> ah, right
21:32:01  * NGC3982 strypsexar davidstrauss
21:32:05  <NGC3982> Oh.
21:32:07  <NGC3982> Snap.
21:32:09  <peter1138> So that patch works for the non-SSE blitters.
21:32:17  <peter1138> Absolutely no idea how to translate it.
21:32:18  <NGC3982> Sorry, wrong channel. Please don't translate that.
21:32:35  <NGC3982> jag fick precis lÀra mig frukterna av tmux
21:32:42  <NGC3982> What on earth
21:32:48  <peter1138> tmux yes.
21:32:49  <NGC3982> My tmux is broken
21:32:55  <NGC3982> Sorry.
21:33:24  <peter1138> 32bpp colour remaps doesn't need blitter changes though, iirc, so that's okay :p
21:33:45  <peter1138> Oh yeah, the crash remap also makes show path reservation work again.
21:40:12  * planetmaker -> sleep. Bye for now
21:44:51  <peter1138>
21:45:36  <frosch123>
21:45:43  <peter1138> Yeah Google found it.
21:45:43  <frosch123> always use google
21:46:19  <MJP> peter1138, I may try to help you with your crashremap6.diff (maybe I'll have some time tomorrow)
21:46:43  <peter1138> Ok cool
21:46:52  <peter1138> Well, by "help" you'll need to do it all :p
21:46:59  <peter1138> Cos I have no clue :D
21:47:30  <MJP> no problem :)
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21:52:56  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26451 trunk/src/group_cmd.cpp (2014-04-08 21:52:53 UTC)
21:52:57  <DorpsGek> -Change: Document GroupIsInGroup() function.
21:54:12  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:02:30  <frosch123> night
22:02:35  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
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