Config
Log for #openttd on 10th April 2014:
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05:56:40  <TheBix> hey guys
05:56:46  <TheBix> im working on a patch
05:57:00  <TheBix> how do I go about finding the train in front of the current one's path?
05:57:52  <peter1138> Walk the track.
05:58:11  <TheBix> How exactly? I know of the follower class but does it follow the current trains path?
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06:05:52  <peter1138> Hmm, do you already know which train is in front?
06:06:04  <TheBix> no that's what i need to find out
06:06:10  <peter1138> Good luck.
06:06:14  <TheBix> I'm re writing the ATC patch if you know of it
06:06:32  <TheBix> however there are some problems with it
06:06:36  <TheBix> so i'm going to try and fix it up
06:07:17  <TheBix> I guess I need to walk the current path of a train until I find another train in the way
06:07:21  <TheBix> but IDK how to do that
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06:12:02  <peter1138> Follow the reserved path.
06:12:25  <TheBix> would you know the appropriate classes for that?
06:12:47  <peter1138> openttd isn't really c++ like that
06:13:00  <TheBix> how do you mean?
06:14:10  <peter1138> a lot of core stuff isn't in classes
06:14:28  <TheBix> okay, I meant classes or functions and stuff
06:14:31  <TheBix> either way
06:14:34  <peter1138> anyway, beyond path reservation, which is only up to the next signal, trains don't store a path
06:14:50  <TheBix> how does the pathfinder work?
06:15:01  <TheBix> does it run every time a train reaches an intersectiont then?
06:15:05  <peter1138> yup
06:15:29  <TheBix> okay that helps me.
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06:17:07  <TheBix> one thing I'm having trouble getting my head around is the trackdir objects
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06:18:37  <TheBix> http://docs.openttd.org/structCFollowTrackT.html
06:19:06  <TheBix> theresw a member called "m_new_td_bits"
06:19:20  <TheBix> which is of type "TrackdirBits" which is an enum
06:19:27  <TheBix> how can an enum contain all the possible track dirs?
06:19:59  <peter1138> It's bit flag enum.
06:20:56  <peter1138> ChooseTrainTrack() is the place to start with
06:21:06  <peter1138> CFollowTrackT is deeper into a pathfinder.
06:21:13  <Eddi|zuHause> TrackdirBits ::= bitmask(Trackdir)
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06:24:40  <Eshays> sorry guys my net dropped out. last thing I saw was : <Eddi|zuHause> TrackdirBits ::= bitmask(Trackdir)
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06:26:01  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing was said after that
06:26:14  <_TheBix> okay thanks
06:26:56  <_TheBix> so I can repeatedly call choosetraintrack to iterate over the path of a train?
06:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause> until you hit a junction
06:28:45  <_TheBix> what if I want to follow the path past a junction?
06:29:29  <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time there was the idea of "weak" reservations
06:29:49  <_TheBix> might be a waste of computation time
06:29:52  <_TheBix> if I do that tho
06:30:11  <Eddi|zuHause> certainly less computation time than calling the pathfinder
06:30:15  <peter1138> Actually it's probably cheaper than continually calling a pathfinder.
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06:31:00  <Eddi|zuHause> _TheBix: but concerning speed control signals, not considering junctions is probably good enough
06:32:54  <_TheBix> yeah
06:33:10  <_TheBix> one issue is if theres an exit track between the current train and the limiting train
06:33:16  <_TheBix> then the limit won't apply
06:37:04  <Eddi|zuHause> _TheBix: but that may be easier than trying to determine which of the exits the train wants to take
06:37:25  <Eddi|zuHause> _TheBix: it'll also fail on double bridges and stuff anyway
06:53:50  <dihedral> good morning
06:59:50  <V453000> moo
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07:17:50  <Xaroth|Work> http://i.imgur.com/plbWloY.jpg
07:23:07  <V453000> :D
07:23:08  <V453000> good
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07:38:29  <andythenorth> Pikka: maglelelelevs?
07:38:34  <andythenorth> good or BAD?
07:38:37  <Pikka> terrible
07:38:54  <V453000> wetrail ftw
07:38:57  <andythenorth> what about AnnoyingMaglev?
07:39:06  <andythenorth> only 150mph, and low-power
07:39:15  <andythenorth> can’t climb hills
07:39:17  <V453000> Pikka: which render template did you use for 3ds max?
07:39:28  <V453000> or created your own?
07:39:39  <Pikka> exactly
07:40:04  <V453000> right :)
07:40:42  <V453000> ... for industries I give sprites of each tile or can there be larger sprites too?
07:40:46  <V453000> like whole 4x4 sprite?
07:40:53  <Pikka> each tile
07:41:09  <Pikka> andy: maglev is either fasterbetterstronger trains, in which case it's boring
07:41:12  <V453000> right so I just model something and then slice it
07:41:21  <Pikka> or it's just passengers, in which case it's "realistic" and boring
07:41:29  <V453000> Pikka: make them carry tiny amount of capacity as the price for speed
07:42:06  <V453000> e.g. nuts rail has 160-250kmh trains with 35 cargo capacity, while maglev can do 400-500kmh but only 22 cargo capacity per 8/8
07:42:19  <V453000> which keeps quite solid balance between them
07:42:50  <andythenorth> Pikka: so I can ignore them?
07:42:54  <andythenorth> I’m not going to use them
07:42:56  <andythenorth> yay
07:43:08  <Pikka> why waste time making something you're not going to use?
07:43:16  <andythenorth> because
07:43:18  <andythenorth> no
07:43:35  <V453000> :D
07:43:50  <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to coherent sentences?
07:43:57  <V453000> no
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07:43:59  <V453000> Eddi
07:44:00  <V453000> no
07:44:04  <peter1138> Someone™ should do a 32bpp extra zoom version of ukrs2...
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07:44:29  <Pikka> but without all the bad features
07:44:46  <peter1138> Yeah, so it'll be exactly the same.
07:44:54  <Pikka> I nominate peter1138 as "Someone™"
07:45:09  <V453000> I nominate him too
07:45:12  <V453000> we democratically win
07:45:56  <andythenorth> there is a problem
07:46:24  <andythenorth> I vote for 32bpp NARS 2
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07:47:43  <V453000> then he does both
07:50:51  <Pikka> <Pikka> why waste time making something you're not going to use?
07:51:15  <peter1138> Make it, then sell it.
07:52:11  <andythenorth> wasn’t most of the game made by people who never play? o_O
07:53:23  <V453000> there should be at least _somebody_ who uses it andy :D
07:59:36  <V453000> but yeah, if you have no easy way to autoreplace to maglev, might as well leave it out of the set
08:00:01  <andythenorth> Pikka: trackset grf is big job?
08:00:37  <Pikka> not necce
08:00:52  <V453000> just tedious, but small job :)
08:01:02  <V453000> making them aligned nicely can be a pain
08:01:11  <V453000> in curves etc
08:01:34  <andythenorth> I hate that stuff :)
08:02:02  <V453000> I hated it quite a bit too when I did it for the first time, second time I had the template so it was rather quick
08:02:16  <andythenorth> is there a service where I pay for this?
08:02:52  <V453000> :D:D
08:03:13  <V453000> well you can pay my company for some meaningless vizualization and I can do grfs for you in that time? :D
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08:04:46  <andythenorth> I need horse tracks
08:04:53  <andythenorth> also railtypes should be in train grf
08:05:48  <V453000> depends
08:05:52  <V453000> horses on wetrail not optimal?
08:08:03  <andythenorth> dunno
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08:08:56  <V453000> pfft!
08:09:03  <V453000> you kno
08:09:14  <andythenorth> maybe I can steal what I need from other sets
08:12:37  <andythenorth> maybe I can decompile, copy-paste, recompile
08:13:21  <Pikka> steam maglevs with animated rivets please, andy
08:13:28  <andythenorth> rivetpunk
08:13:34  <andythenorth> what happens to default railtypes if I make a railtype grf?
08:13:44  <andythenorth> I just want to add metro and NG, not break anything
08:13:51  <planetmaker> moin
08:13:58  <Pikka> I don't think you can get rid of the default railtypes
08:14:01  <andythenorth> good
08:14:02  <Pikka> moinbon
08:14:03  <planetmaker> default railtypes will just stay, if you use another label
08:14:12  <andythenorth> UKRS tracks 3rd rail would do for metro?
08:14:22  <andythenorth> and is there a good NG set?  I didn’t find any without bugs
08:15:26  <peter1138> Finescale ftw
08:16:19  <andythenorth> not doing finescale :)
08:16:39  <andythenorth> need to fit in Cape gauge and also smaller NG
08:17:08  <andythenorth> ENotEnoughPixels
08:17:47  <andythenorth> bbl
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08:58:08  <Pikka> <andythenorth> ENotEnoughPixels <- obvious fix for that
08:58:11  <Pikka> bblalso
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08:59:01  <Pikka> andythenorth, if you don't have enough pixels you'll have to go EZ
08:59:05  <Pikka> simples
08:59:18  <andythenorth> hurgh
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09:06:02  <peter1138> AND THEN
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11:03:09  <Pokka> what
11:03:12  <Pokka> 'sit all aboot
11:03:17  <Pokka> jimmy
11:03:21  <Pokka> g'night
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11:04:12  <V453000> :d
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11:04:19  <V453000> I think andythenorth and Pikka are on drugs
11:04:25  <V453000> probably horse stuff
11:15:21  <peter1138> Hmm, trees...
11:15:29  <peter1138> Do they just... spread too far?
11:17:20  <V453000> bad feature
11:23:21  <peter1138> All trees?
11:23:39  <V453000> everything
11:23:44  <peter1138> Ah
11:25:10  <V453000> (:
11:29:26  <lugo> too far, too fast
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11:33:19  <LordAro> clearly, trees should be removed
11:33:25  <lugo> actually there should be less trees in 1990 than in 1920
11:33:52  <supermop> grass is a bad feature
11:33:57  <supermop> should be removed
11:34:12  <supermop> shouldn't be grass everywhere in 1990
11:36:19  <mg_> there's grass and woods outside cities. no grass in the city, which seams like irl. it was the same in 1900 and will probably be many years to come
11:37:15  <lugo> maybe 1800 to 1920 than
11:37:19  <peter1138> Hmm, graphical glitches with locks :S
11:37:55  <LordAro> peter1138, you got a patch for that?
11:37:57  <lugo> and very slow growth from 1920 onwards
11:38:35  <peter1138> LordAro, i've got a patch that makes ships stop in the middle and then move up/down.
11:38:50  <LordAro> that sounds awesome
11:38:54  <peter1138> But the ships glitch through the landscape in front :(
11:38:58  <LordAro> :(
11:39:13  <LordAro> silly legacy draw order
11:39:36  <peter1138> And making all landscape Z-sorted is possible but a crazy idea.
11:39:57  <LordAro> why is it crazy?
11:39:59  <peter1138> Mind you, this ship has crazy x/y offsets anyway.
11:40:11  <peter1138> Might just be that.
11:40:37  <peter1138> Yeah, the bounding box is way ahead of the ship... d'oh
11:42:57  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/shipbb.png :S
11:44:18  <V453000> that looks quite awful even without the bounding box
11:44:39  <peter1138> Yes, I'm waiting for pikka's 32bpp ez base set.
11:45:03  <V453000> even opengfx looks better than that
11:51:49  <LordAro> is that zbase?
11:52:05  <peter1138> Yeah
11:53:05  <LordAro> in an attempt to defend zephyris, i shall point out that he made a whole base set in a couple of months (again), and that he's been very busy recently
11:53:55  * peter1138 checks... default ships fit pretty much within the bounding box, even height-wise.
11:54:44  <peter1138> opengfx fits, ignoring height.
11:55:25  <peter1138> i have the feeling that everything in zbase is a bit too big...
11:59:27  <V453000> zephyris did a respectable job of making a whole base set without other being there, but if simply looks bad, I wont lie about it
12:02:45  <V453000> if everyone goes "oh how beautiful this is" nobody will get any motivation or reason to improve it
12:02:54  <V453000> not that I believe anybody will regardless
12:03:41  <peter1138> Default ships are perfect with these locks...
12:04:22  <V453000> I was rather talking about the graphical style, not the offsets ... but I agree with you that most zbase things also are wtf oversized
12:04:41  <V453000> ... or strangely offset? :P
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12:05:14  <peter1138> Oversized or exaggerated, but I was just saying regardless of zBase, it works nicely :)
12:05:26  <V453000> =D
12:05:28  <V453000> sure
12:05:44  <peter1138> Yet Another Settings Option!
12:05:46  <peter1138> No :(
12:06:15  <Xaroth|Work> I would suggest another option
12:06:22  <Xaroth|Work> 'show excessive amounts of options'
12:06:29  <peter1138> Xaroth|Work, we have that.
12:06:47  <Xaroth|Work> .. I should play more often :P
12:06:47  <peter1138> Except it's not a single option, it's three.
12:06:56  <peter1138> When you have a search bar to search your options, you know it's gone bad.
12:07:06  <Xaroth|Work> ghehe
12:07:32  <peter1138> Hmm, now... if ships have to stop to go up & down, people are going to demand water animations...
12:07:51  <Xaroth|Work> shader effects!
12:08:40  <V453000> you might as well demand the people to fuck off
12:08:58  <peter1138> It does look a bit funky when you 2 ships in different directions mind you
12:09:27  <V453000> having 100 ships on 2 tiles isnt helpful :P
12:10:50  <lugo> but also funky
12:12:03  <lugo> sooo i think signals on locks would be nicer than water animation :p
12:12:05  <planetmaker> peter1138, 32bpp water can be animated. zBase just doesn't have it. Or you speaking of 'proper' locks?
12:12:11  <lugo> but i'm not demanding that
12:12:17  <peter1138> planetmaker, proper.
12:12:24  <planetmaker> aye
12:14:00  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ohdearme.png
12:14:01  <peter1138> heheh
12:15:04  <peter1138> Hmm
12:15:13  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/pikka.png < no idea why that's called pikka
12:16:22  <peter1138> planetmaker, is there a grf build of your stuff?
12:17:29  <V453000> the pota?
12:17:36  <V453000> is on fruit
12:17:42  <peter1138> pota-ghat
12:17:43  <peter1138> ah
12:17:45  <V453000> y
12:18:02  <V453000> but makes slopes like totally invisible
12:18:14  <peter1138> :S
12:18:24  <peter1138> Also a NewGRF not a baseset
12:18:28  <peter1138> (Understandable)
12:18:31  <V453000> we had it on server once and I havent seen people so mad
12:18:36  <peter1138> Haha
12:18:41  <V453000> yeah newgrf is on bananas I believe
12:18:56  <V453000> it is nice on the first sight but not very good for building :P
12:19:49  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/locks3.diff
12:20:43  <peter1138> Bah, unsafe for static :S
12:21:16  <planetmaker> yeah, sorry. That must be the rivers doing it. Rivers are unsafe static
12:21:33  <peter1138> :(
12:21:43  <V453000> :0
12:21:56  <peter1138> Hmm, water animation.
12:22:00  <peter1138> See what you mean about the slopes.
12:22:13  <planetmaker> yeah, that needs improvement there
12:22:31  <V453000> water animation is probably quite wtf to get right, you would have to create an animated seamless texture
12:22:33  <planetmaker> it actually seems to need different alpha for different zooms
12:22:57  <planetmaker> that's done. OpenGFX and TTD have it
12:23:02  <V453000> or well using some houdini plugin or something
12:23:21  <V453000> well yeah pm but having it in moar pixels and colours is that much harder :P
12:23:24  <peter1138> I can't actually think how the water animation is done :p
12:23:35  <V453000> well you just draw it
12:24:01  <planetmaker> peter1138, it's a texture. And an 8bpp mask which defines the animation and hue
12:24:02  <V453000> that is how I did it at least
12:24:11  <planetmaker> animation via palette animation of the mask
12:24:30  <peter1138> Yes I know the technical details :)
12:24:47  <planetmaker> using the existing 8bpp water as mask for 32bpp is just fine
12:24:49  <peter1138> Seems the animation is not ez though, heh.
12:24:57  <planetmaker> yeah :P
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12:26:45  <peter1138> Rail is broken :(
12:27:14  <V453000> cinema4D can make some quite good animated noisey textures
12:27:20  <V453000> could be a good source for something
12:27:41  <V453000> idk if blender has something similar
12:27:44  <peter1138> How good is our Perlin noise algorithm for arbitrary random access?
12:28:02  <peter1138> (just to change the subject)
12:28:27  <V453000> as far as I know, it is absolutely amazing
12:28:31  <V453000> problem is I dont know
12:28:35  <peter1138> :p
12:28:35  <planetmaker> where is rail broken?
12:29:07  <peter1138> One of the offsets is wrong on one of the | tracks.
12:29:29  <planetmaker> with pota-ghat?
12:29:34  <peter1138> Yeah
12:29:34  <planetmaker> or another?
12:29:36  <planetmaker> hm
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12:39:58  <peter1138> Does a train have to reach all its destinations for cargodist to pick it up, or is just having it in the order list enough?
12:40:57  <Flygon> It has to stop first
12:45:28  <lugo> are you sure Flygon?
12:45:43  <Flygon> 90%
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12:58:23  <lugo> i think it used to be, but was changed, but i am only 60% sure :p
13:05:47  <peter1138> I'm 33% sure Flygon is sure.
13:06:08  <Flygon> I'm 47% sure all statistics are made up on the spot
13:14:23  <peter1138> Zoom/volume doesn't appear to work.
13:14:38  <peter1138> Or just not enough
13:39:18  <Flygon> I play OpenTTD mute x.x
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14:32:37  <peter1138> http://git-man-page-generator.lokaltog.net/
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14:43:23  <Xaroth|Work> lol
15:04:21  <Eddi|zuHause> one has to love manuals that onlymake sense when you already know how it works
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15:49:30  <fjb> Moin.
15:50:56  <pthagnar> grÃŒezi
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16:14:25  <mg_> so what happens after 100 years of game-time (or is it 150)? i can't seem to find any info on that. i know i can play much longer but is there anything that happens
16:20:57  <LordAro> at the end of year 2050, the highscore screen appears]
16:21:02  <LordAro> other than that, nothing
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16:40:13  <ZirconiumX> There are some NewGRFs (eGRVTS) which try to give you something to do.
16:40:23  <ZirconiumX> (After 2050)
16:41:30  <peter1138> Hmm, I like these locks.
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16:44:10  <frosch123> hmm... is it just me or does a .net program with a python scripting interface sound really weird?
16:45:14  <mg_> LordAro: thx
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16:52:19  <peter1138> Bah, train congestion :(
16:53:08  <peter1138> Not helped by towns/stations being a bit too close together.
16:55:28  <NGC3982> Is "Dancers guide to the galaxy" correct?
16:56:00  <peter1138> Dancer's or Dancers' depending.
16:56:26  <peter1138> Or rather, Hitchhiker's
16:56:30  <NGC3982> Yes, exactly.
16:56:41  <NGC3982> "Dancer's" did not sound correct. :)
16:57:04  <peter1138> Dancer's if it's a single dancer.
16:58:00  <NGC3982> Yes,
16:58:02  <NGC3982> Thanks.
16:59:13  <peter1138> Hmm, that feels like enough of 10cc. Now for a proper NewGRF like UKRS2.
16:59:57  <NGC3982> I love that.
17:00:03  <NGC3982> Me faveret'
17:03:19  <peter1138> Hmm, 145MB of NewGRF updates...
17:03:34  <peter1138> Ah, one of them is Pineapple though.
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17:29:55  <LeShadow> I've a question, how can I play a scenario if I don't have the required grf's? The page of the scenario explicitly says I should be able to play the scenario without the grf's
17:31:22  <Alberth> that page was probably written in the time you could still remove newgrfs
17:32:06  <LeShadow> so there are no real world scenarios for the current openttd that can be played without grf's? :/. I wanted to play the europe scenario but somehow when I builded trains for coals it never loaded coals etc :/
17:32:39  <Alberth> you do have the newgrfs then?
17:33:04  <LeShadow> yeah I do, but I think it's because of one of the grf's that coals (and oil for that matter) never get loaded on the train
17:33:11  <Alberth> there is an option to load them from the donwloadable content when loading the scenarios
17:33:57  <Alberth> it may be that the wagon you used for coal defaults to some other cargo
17:34:09  <Alberth> so if you try to load coal, it won't load any
17:34:17  <LeShadow> no, I specifically sorted wagons on type of cargo it can hold
17:34:20  <LeShadow> and bought the correct ones
17:34:22  <LeShadow> these grf's are not on bananas anymore
17:34:51  <Alberth> you also checked the cargo capacity of the train afterwards?
17:34:54  <LeShadow> yes
17:34:57  <LeShadow> I did
17:35:12  <Alberth> hmm, weird, then
17:36:46  <LeShadow> maybe these grf's are too old?
17:38:07  <Alberth> that's normally not a problem, openttd is terribly backwards compatible
17:38:23  <Alberth> there seem to be 2 europe height maps
17:38:32  <Alberth> maybe that's an alternative?
17:39:14  <frosch123> LeShadow: maybe use a heightmap instead of a scenario
17:39:32  <frosch123> oh, albert just suggested that :)
17:40:13  <Alberth> quak! :)
17:40:14  <pthagnar> but then it turns out paris is called frandhattan
17:40:59  <frosch123> yeah, i heard about that conspirancy
17:41:09  <LeShadow> those heightmaps, do they have the realistic cities like today or not?
17:41:26  <frosch123> only terrain, no cities or stuff
17:42:06  <frosch123> but, well, there are also 3 other europe scenarios
17:44:20  <LeShadow> is it possible to edit a scenario?
17:45:02  <frosch123> well, there is a "scenario editor" button on the intro screen
17:46:02  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26453 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2014-04-10 17:45:49 UTC)
17:46:03  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:04  <DorpsGek> basque - 35 changes by laxkax
17:46:05  <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 2 changes by Gavin
17:46:06  <DorpsGek> finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
17:46:07  <DorpsGek> italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
17:46:08  <DorpsGek> korean - 2 changes by telk5093
17:46:09  <DorpsGek> gaelic - 1 changes by GunChleoc
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18:19:36  <andythenorth> o/
18:20:16  <frosch123> your mom likes rivets
18:21:03  <andythenorth> your mom is riveting
18:21:17  <andythenorth> these discussions never end well
18:21:34  <andythenorth> anyone patched anything?
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18:23:18  <frosch123> someone patched openssl
18:23:52  <frosch123> not my company, they dicovered that they are only using older version
18:23:56  <frosch123> which does not surprise me
18:24:18  <LordAro> did openttd.org get fixed?
18:24:25  <andythenorth> I couldn’t comment on openssl
18:24:37  <frosch123> though i would not be surprised if they roll out a vulnerable version in a year or so
18:24:47  <frosch123> LordAro: likely the same :)
18:25:04  <LordAro> should get TB to fix that :L
18:26:24  <frosch123> it's a 0.9 version :)
18:26:47  <frosch123> though i have no idea whether other vms run different versions
18:27:04  <LordAro> heh
18:27:23  <LordAro> they run some ancient debian, i assume?
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18:31:37  <frosch123> LordAro: you may be better off trying older exploits :p
18:32:25  <LordAro> :L
18:32:40  <LordAro> TB not good at updating then?
18:32:44  <LordAro> :p
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18:41:34  <Wolf01> hi hi
18:42:22  <Alberth> \o o/
18:43:06  <andythenorth> planetmaker: do we have a proven method for finding all the deps in a newgrf compile?
18:43:23  <andythenorth> I am inventing my own, which is going to be horrible and flakey
18:44:05  <frosch123> i think there are multiple methods, they are all horrible and flakey
18:46:07  <andythenorth> hmm
18:47:49  <Alberth> why do you want to find deps?
18:47:55  <andythenorth> faster compile
18:48:17  <Alberth> usually the point is to skip parts, but a newgrf needs to be build entirely, always, afaik
18:48:20  <andythenorth> don’t bother compiling vehicles where nothing is changed
18:48:38  <andythenorth> compile / pre-process /s
18:50:00  <andythenorth> saves ~8s right now per build
18:50:10  <andythenorth> will save more in future
18:50:25  <andythenorth> just wonder how much time it will take to maintain
18:53:12  <Alberth> 8s gain is not so much :p
18:53:40  <andythenorth> it scales linearly
18:53:46  <andythenorth> plan is 16 rosters
18:53:53  <andythenorth> currently 1 roster
18:54:22  <andythenorth> hmm
18:55:23  <andythenorth> option 1: figure out all the deps, maintain them as the code develops, only pre-process a vehicle if deps marked dirty
18:55:35  <planetmaker> andythenorth, not sure that the endavour to compile per vehicle is worth the time
18:55:55  <andythenorth> option 2: always compile everything by default, have a makefile flag that goes faster, to be used only when known safe
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18:56:03  <andythenorth> option 2 is much better
18:56:05  <andythenorth> explicit
18:56:22  <planetmaker> make is mean to figure out / be the way to describe the dependencies and which things need or need not re-doing
18:56:47  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I wondered if make should figure it out
and somehow pass to python
18:56:57  <andythenorth> but I think the best thing is just a ‘go faster’ flag
18:57:01  <planetmaker> so if you write the Makefile such that it contains the deps properly, then it is always as fast as it can be without any flags
18:57:12  <juzza1> let makefile run the vehicle_render.py or what you have, set all vehicle files as depency for that target?
18:57:28  <planetmaker> something like that ^
18:58:06  <andythenorth> I think it means re-engineering the compile, which probably wouldn’t save time net?
18:58:14  <planetmaker> like vehicle_xy.pnml: vehicle_render.py vehicle-xy
18:58:23  <andythenorth> I’ll try a go faster flag first, FIRS already has it
18:58:26  <planetmaker> with vehicle-xy as command line flag to the vehicle_render.py script
19:00:01  * andythenorth looks how to add a flag for make
19:00:23  <planetmaker> if you anyway modify make, then do it right. Teach the deps to make
19:00:32  <planetmaker> have you script create the pnml of each vehicle
19:00:39  <planetmaker> and put that dep in make
19:00:48  <planetmaker> no fast flag or hacks like that needed
19:00:57  <andythenorth> but why re-engineer? o_O
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19:02:24  <Alberth> you want a faster compile?
19:03:10  <Alberth> skipping building all vehicles but the one you're interested in may be a more feasible solution
19:03:20  <Alberth> or make one newgrf per vehicle
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19:04:20  <Alberth> not so useful for deploying, but may be useful for development
19:05:17  * andythenorth reads about CC_FLAGS
19:06:07  <andythenorth> hmm
19:06:17  <andythenorth> CC_FLAGS ?= -D TEST_INDUSTRY=$(TEST_INDUSTRY) -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header
19:06:42  <andythenorth> what is that doing?  I have googled GCC docs, but didn’t find anything, google redirects me to CFLAGS
19:07:19  <Alberth> CC_FLAGS is a variable in the default C compile makefile rule
19:07:49  <Alberth> it's not inherently connected to gcc
19:08:01  <andythenorth> I don’t seem to need ti
19:08:02  <andythenorth> it *
19:08:08  <Eddi|zuHause> "-D" makes a define, which you can use with "#ifdef" in the code
19:08:10  <Alberth> -D X=...    defines variable X
19:08:40  <Eddi|zuHause> -E calls the preprocessor only, not the compiler
19:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> -nostdinc -x c-header are magic things
19:09:13  <Eddi|zuHause> -C i don't know
19:09:46  <Alberth> -C is keep comments, I think
19:11:01  <Alberth> -nostdinc           Do not search the standard system directories for header files.
19:11:03  <NGC3982> shortÃŒrl.
19:11:13  <NGC3982> The german hatred for long lines links.
19:12:11  <Alberth> -x language           Specify explicitly the language for the following input files
19:12:14  <Eddi|zuHause> funnily, random "Ì"s make things look turkish in a german's eyes
19:13:15  <Alberth> where "c-header" is probably a .h file
19:14:41  <andythenorth> done, added a go faster flag
19:14:41  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: generally "<whatever>FLAGS" specify the parameters given to the call of "<whatever>" within the makefile
19:15:09  <andythenorth> seems all I needed to make a flag work was to add it to this line
19:15:10  <andythenorth> 	$(_V) python src/build_iron_horse.py '${REPO_TITLE}' '${REPO_REVISION}' '${COMPILE_FASTER}'
19:15:13  <andythenorth> which is neat
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19:19:28  <andythenorth> and now shows a message during compilation if nml render takes > 5s
19:19:37  <andythenorth> and no deps to try and track :P
19:22:07  <andythenorth> will that 3 hours of work pay off? o_O
19:23:43  <Alberth> @calc 3*60*60 / 8
19:23:43  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 1350
19:23:52  <Alberth> only 1350 compiles :p
19:24:09  <andythenorth> I am at r667
19:24:17  <andythenorth> and each rev is probably 1-30 compiles
19:24:40  <Alberth> @calc 1350 / 15
19:24:40  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 90
19:24:54  <Alberth> so about r900?
19:24:56  <andythenorth> yeah
19:25:17  <andythenorth> now remove the time lost due to running the magic hidden ‘go faster’ flag, but forgetting that deps have changed
19:25:45  <andythenorth> so r1500 or so
19:25:57  <andythenorth> let’s hope I don’t die first eh?
19:26:36  <Alberth> firs is also > 3k, so it's possible :)
19:26:55  <Alberth> if you make enough stuff, your 8 seconds will increase
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19:28:32  <andythenorth> next roster, it will double
19:28:47  <michi_cc> andythenorth: You can look up the 'will it pay off' yourself: http://xkcd.com/1205/ :)
19:28:55  <andythenorth> michi_cc: seen it before :D
19:29:10  <andythenorth> and mostly I’m only adding one vehicle, so I would watch 14s of useless rendering, and 1s of productive rendering :P
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19:29:52  <andythenorth> maybe I read too much about John Carmack recently :P
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19:49:39  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:09:29  <andythenorth> oops
20:09:32  <andythenorth> that will get me a mod warning
20:10:30  * andythenorth is a BAD LEGO FAN
20:11:54  <Taede> you act like godzilla around lego?
20:14:26  <Phreeze> wtf is going on
20:14:35  <Phreeze> andy raging in his lego-chamber ?
20:15:52  <andythenorth> bad habit I have, trolling a lego forum
20:15:57  <andythenorth> gets me mod warnings
20:16:03  <andythenorth> I had to edit my post :P
20:16:15  <SpComb> oo naughty
20:16:47  <andythenorth> dumb
20:17:07  <SpComb> was your post IEC 60050-732 732-09-02 compliant
20:17:21  <andythenorth> dunno
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20:26:37  <Phreeze> link to post pls ^^
20:27:11  <andythenorth> I had to edit it
20:27:15  <andythenorth> so nothing to see
20:27:19  <andythenorth> still we had a nice chat eh?
20:29:19  <Phreeze> it was faboulous
20:29:30  <Phreeze> about to finish my set for an alpha release :X
20:29:45  <andythenorth> beat you
20:29:50  <Phreeze> i'm not sure if the quality is cool enough compared to "pro" sets like dutch or 2cc
20:29:57  <andythenorth> hrm
20:30:01  <andythenorth> ‘pro'
20:30:03  <andythenorth> :)
20:30:10  <Phreeze> the drawings are so nice
20:30:11  <andythenorth> just release it anyway
20:30:16  <andythenorth> who knows
20:30:18  <Phreeze> or nars or <insert here>
20:30:48  <andythenorth> well if it’s crap, we’ll all download it, and then
politely never speak of it again
20:31:07  <andythenorth> what’s the worst that can happen?
20:33:14  <andythenorth> hmm
20:33:21  <andythenorth> seems I have dibbled the cargo aging in ships quite a lot
20:33:37  <andythenorth> 4.2x slower than default :o
20:33:43  <andythenorth> don’t remember doing that
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20:43:07  <Phreeze> fix it ;)
20:43:47  <andythenorth> think it’s intended
20:43:55  <andythenorth> must be a FEATURE
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21:04:11  <Phreeze> gnasnd adj
21:04:15  <Phreeze> damn code
21:04:24  <Phreeze> always get 3 articulated cars instead 2....
21:08:40  <andythenorth> obiwan
21:12:04  <Phreeze> noobquestion: how can i tell my GRF to disable the default trains ?
21:12:52  <andythenorth> it’s nml?
21:13:30  <andythenorth> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Disable_items
21:13:35  <andythenorth> really handy
21:14:17  <andythenorth> also bye
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21:16:45  <Phreeze> ^^
21:22:37  <Phreeze> disable_item(FEAT_TRAINS, 1, 115); would disable all default trains ?
21:22:51  <Phreeze> as 54,115 is monorail and maglevs
21:24:33  <Alberth> tias?
21:25:16  <Phreeze> english ? :D
21:25:43  <Alberth> try it and see
21:25:52  <Phreeze> ..
21:26:12  <Alberth> what word is not understandable?
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21:40:39  <frosch123> night
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21:52:09  <peter1138> Hmm, save-game conversion.
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