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Log for #openttd on 27th April 2014:
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05:57:22  <LSky> morning
06:14:00  <Supercheese> Salve, amice
06:16:44  <supermop> yo
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06:26:23  <planetmaker> moin
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06:27:30  <supermop> hi planetmaker
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07:38:38  <supermop> for a total conversion set is it best to provide terrain and basics as baseset and then later make a supplementary newgrf?
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07:48:15  <planetmaker> what do you mean with 'total conversion set'?
07:48:22  <planetmaker> There's NewGRFs and there's base sets
07:48:24  <peter1139> Changing everything.
07:49:07  <peter1139> But if it's baseset, that implies its suitable as a basic graphics replacement
07:49:12  <planetmaker> So it depends on whether you want to make something which is nice as base set and then want to fine-tune it by means of NewGRFs
07:49:33  <planetmaker> or whether you're interested in a gameplay goal - where then it may make more sense to start with everything NewGRF
07:49:50  <planetmaker> And possibly make a base set when it seems that you got everything covered anyway
07:50:07  <planetmaker> So possibly, I'd start with NewGRF only
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07:58:38  <DanMacK> Hey all
08:00:57  <Taede> mornin
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08:08:30  <andythenorth> o/
08:12:36  <supermop> just want to make a diagrammatic set of graphics for playing the vanilla game,
08:13:29  <supermop> if i still had an office job i'd say it would be a 'worksafe' look, but i have broader ideas right now
08:14:22  <supermop> but regardless its just vector derived symbolic/diagrammatic sprites
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08:19:09  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: I just started testing that branch with waybill patch applied
08:19:41  <andythenorth> after mashing ffwd for a minute or so, the cargo allocation to ship routes looks now balanced against train routes
08:20:29  <andythenorth> allocations of 13:34 or now 33:34
08:20:34  <andythenorth> or / are /s
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08:35:15  <fonsinchen> andythenorth, that's what I tested, too.
08:35:39  <fonsinchen> That's a fairly easy task for the algorithm, though.
08:36:02  <fonsinchen> Maybe you have something more crazy with multiple full loads, timetables and conditionals mixed in?
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08:41:00  <juzza1> supermop: by diagrammatic graphics, do you mean something like this http://webstyleguide.com/wsg3/figures/11-graphics/11-12-700.jpg ?
08:43:38  <fonsinchen> Also the algorithm has the potential to greatly overestimate capacity if the route is not fully "timed", yet, while a vehicle is full loading.
08:44:11  <fonsinchen> That may be a good thing, though, as it gives an initial boost to new routes so that cargo is allocated on them right away.
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08:53:59  <fonsinchen> I could generally add the current_order_time to the base value if the current order doesn't have wait_time, yet.
08:54:34  <fonsinchen> That would prevent that boost from going straight through the roof in pathetic cases.
08:54:57  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: I don’t have any conditional orders :)
08:55:15  <andythenorth> I really wouldn’t expect cdist to handle such complexity
08:55:44  <fonsinchen> People do expect that.
08:56:06  <andythenorth> I doubt they could describe what they actually expect the result to be
08:56:09  <andythenorth> except ‘magic'
08:56:14  <fonsinchen> But to see the problem I'm imagining just make a route with a short non-full-load link followed by a long full load link and then watch how it gets ridiculously overloaded.
08:57:10  <fonsinchen> Well, in certain cases there are valid descriptions. I remember that guy with the aircraft taxiing around on the same airport, conditionally servicing it.
08:57:21  <fonsinchen> That should not distort the cargo handling, of course.
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09:01:32  <andythenorth> lo Dan9550
09:01:34  <andythenorth> oops
09:01:36  <andythenorth> sorry
09:01:56  * andythenorth read ‘joined'
09:02:06  <andythenorth> more sleep needed
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09:07:59  <Phreeze> sleep is overrated
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09:15:43  <Dan9550> sleep is for the weak
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09:39:48  <andythenorth> is there some way to use timetables to space out vehicles?
09:39:56  <andythenorth> my ships keep bunching, which is visually ugly
09:40:13  <Eddi|zuHause> set up a roundtrip time and then ctrl+click on start date
09:41:22  <andythenorth> how do I determine the roundtrip time?
09:42:04  <Eddi|zuHause> there's an autofill
09:42:59  <Eddi|zuHause> which you should probably increase once it's done
09:45:37  <peter1139> hmm
09:49:24  <peter1139> i always forget about timetables
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09:53:45  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what does that actually do?  (conceptually)
09:54:24  <peter1139> Autofill will give you the total journey time including stops.
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09:54:54  <andythenorth> and how is vehicle separation guaranteed?
09:55:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the autofill records one roundtrip, the adjustment is for variation in loading times so your vehicles aren't always late, and the start date calculates roundtrip time / number of shared vehicles
09:55:40  <Eddi|zuHause> this is set up once and then fixed
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09:56:03  <andythenorth> I don’t think I’d have ever worked that out from the UI
09:56:09  <Eddi|zuHause> separation is only ensured if your vehicles are not late
09:56:30  <peter1139> So if your network is congested they can still bunch up.
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09:57:47  <andythenorth> I never understood timetables :)
09:57:59  <andythenorth> so it reduces speed of individual vehicles?
09:58:03  <andythenorth> or makes them wait longer at station?
09:58:04  <Eddi|zuHause> that feeling was probably mutual :p
09:58:12  <Eddi|zuHause> they wait longer
09:58:15  <peter1139> makes them wait longer, if it's early
09:58:38  <andythenorth> and all the following vehicles then wait longer too?
09:58:38  <Eddi|zuHause> although you can set a speed limit as well
09:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause> only the first time
09:59:51  <Eddi|zuHause> once it adjusts to the separation, there should not be a lot of waiting, unless you estended the roundtrip time too much
10:00:17  <andythenorth> so I need to watch the vehicles for the first roundtrip?
10:01:01  <Eddi|zuHause> one vehicle
10:01:14  <Eddi|zuHause> the roundtrip time is automatically shared
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10:01:30  <peter1139> Assuming you use shared orders.
10:01:35  <peter1139> If you don't... do.
10:01:46  <andythenorth> I do
10:02:12  <andythenorth> I have to try this now :P
10:02:16  <andythenorth> I don’t really understand it
10:02:49  <andythenorth> I need a faster ffwd :P
10:02:55  <peter1139> Thie timetable will take 104 days to complete
10:03:01  <peter1139> This vehicle is currently running 104 days late
10:03:02  <peter1139> Yers...
10:03:23  <andythenorth> urgh
10:03:25  <andythenorth> ships are slow
10:03:29  <andythenorth> maybe I should fix that
10:03:34  <andythenorth> this is boring
10:03:41  <peter1139> I have a patch for that...
10:04:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it should skip a full roundtrip after x% late
10:04:39  <andythenorth> peter1139: faster ships?  Or just remove them? o_O
10:05:10  <peter1139> andythenorth, faster!
10:05:27  <peter1139> Silly instant stopping though.
10:06:23  <andythenorth> helps avoid collisions
10:07:32  <andythenorth> eh?
10:07:44  <andythenorth> my ‘wait for 3 days’ at station order just got changed to 1 day
10:07:44  <andythenorth> :(
10:08:30  <peter1139> It will if it's still autofilling.
10:10:01  <andythenorth> oh
10:10:25  <andythenorth> then I have to reset that myself?
10:10:59  <peter1139> It'll finish autofilling at some point, then you can adjust the times.
10:13:13  <andythenorth> what’s the ctrl-click on start date business all about?
10:14:59  <andythenorth> and why is it ‘not timetabled’ after running the full roundtrip?
10:15:06  <andythenorth> oh just slow :P
10:15:29  <andythenorth> so how do I space out the vehicles?
10:15:30  <andythenorth> wait?
10:16:16  <andythenorth> or do I need to stop some?
10:16:51  <peter1139> 31st February. Yeah!
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10:34:38  <supermop> ok now that i have a handfull of 4x zoom 32bpp pngs
10:37:04  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: so for asymmetric cdist, what rule is used to divide cargo between destinations?
10:37:50  <fonsinchen> Distance only, after I've removed the tile demands
10:38:06  <andythenorth> I wondered about a ‘stupid’ mode
10:38:16  <fonsinchen> subject to the effect of distance setting, of course.
10:38:18  <andythenorth> just counts the number of destinations, divides evenly across them
10:38:35  <fonsinchen> set distance effect to 0
10:38:47  <fonsinchen> That's as stupid as it gets then
10:39:30  <andythenorth> I should try another game with asymmetric, but featuring all the other recent improvements
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10:39:55  <andythenorth> waybill definitely clicks with my mental model for the game, but I wonder if it’s better or worse than asymmetric
10:40:08  <peter1139> Is asymmetric new or something?
10:40:14  <peter1139> It's what I have picked.
10:40:57  <peter1139> Hmm, cargo is only asymmteric.
10:41:41  <fonsinchen> symmetric doesn't make any sense for most cargoes
10:43:50  * andythenorth ponders Eddi’s point about town cargos
10:45:19  <andythenorth> incentives to distribute cargo or connect the network should be done by the GS
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10:46:02  <fonsinchen> Yes, that's a separate question: Which link graph properties should be exposed to GS and AI?
10:46:15  <Wolf01> hi hi
10:46:20  <andythenorth> interesting Q
10:46:33  <andythenorth> I’m also wondering if dist mode should be a newgrf cargo property
10:48:07  <fonsinchen> That would make the mode settings either obsolete or highly confusing. Might be good or bad.
10:49:15  <peter1139> Castle Point  Steamer
10:51:01  <frosch123> anyone having issues with 32bpp-anim crashing in nightly (possibly windows)? i don't
10:53:53  <peter1139> Hmm, steam coming from below the ship :S
10:54:00  <andythenorth> peter1139: needs a smoke patch...
10:54:18  <frosch123> yeah, i should commit that one :)
10:55:28  <andythenorth> "he has a patch for that”
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11:15:50  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: I’m not sure player needs to set the mode per cargo
11:19:44  <andythenorth> I think it’s like payment rate and other intrinsic cargo properties
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12:15:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26522 /trunk/src (9 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-27 12:15:14 UTC)
12:15:23  <DorpsGek> -Add: A config-file-only setting to disable usage of 8bpp video modes.
12:15:24  <DorpsGek> -Remove: [win32] fullscreen_bpp setting, which is replaced by above setting.
12:15:25  <DorpsGek> -Change: Disable usage of 8bpp blitters and video modes by default. Many modern OS and hardware cause issues with those.
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12:46:15  <peter1139> Shocking./
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13:12:44  <LordAro> it finally happened
13:18:22  <peter1139> You're going slightly mad?
13:21:35  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26523 trunk/src/os/unix/unix.cpp (2014-04-27 13:21:30 UTC)
13:21:36  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5992]: OpenBSD compilation (MagisterQuis)
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13:46:10  <LordAro> peter1139: well, other than that
14:02:25  <Phreeze> is there a way i can remove a timetable from a tram e.g ?
14:02:40  <Phreeze> stupid tram is waiting at a station for days.....a station with 1000passengers waiting
14:09:12  <Alberth> open time table, remove all times?
14:12:53  <__ln___> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/landfill-excavation-unearths-years-of-crushed-atari-treasure/
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14:34:25  <Phreeze> what i did finally ;)
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15:12:46  <Samu> hi. quick question. Is autoclean maximum value 240 or 256? wiki says 256, console says 240. Just wondering
15:13:19  <Rubidium> console's more likely to be right
15:13:33  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26524 /trunk/src/lang (53 files) (2014-04-27 15:13:27 UTC)
15:13:34  <DorpsGek> -Remove: Soon unneeded translations.
15:13:52  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26525 /trunk/src (9 files in 5 dirs) (2014-04-27 15:13:46 UTC)
15:13:53  <DorpsGek> -Remove: Screenshot format setting from GUI.
15:13:53  <Rubidium> 240 sounds better too because that's 20 years
15:15:34  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26526 /trunk/src (5 files in 5 dirs) (2014-04-27 15:15:28 UTC)
15:15:35  <DorpsGek> -Remove: Ability to set map generation seed via GUI. If you really need it, use the console.
15:17:02  <Samu> thx
15:19:56  <Superuser> Is there a specification of the OpenTTD map format anywhere?
15:21:17  <frosch123> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/59367d649f6b/docs/desync.txt#l239 <- savegame container format
15:21:36  <frosch123> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/59367d649f6b/docs/landscape.html http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/59367d649f6b/docs/landscape_grid.html <- map array format
15:21:46  <Superuser> thanks
15:21:52  <frosch123> the rest is highly version specifiy, and no external tool will be able to learn that
15:23:10  <Superuser> damn
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15:35:37  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26528 /trunk/src (3 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-27 15:35:31 UTC)
15:35:38  <DorpsGek> -Remove: A bunch of archaic settings from the advanced settings GUI.
15:36:44  <frosch123> DorpsGek: you are a mystery-monger
15:45:59  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26529 /trunk (4 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-27 15:45:53 UTC)
15:46:00  <DorpsGek> -Merge: documentation updates from 1.4 branch
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15:54:51  <peter1139> Tyrant!
15:56:32  <planetmaker> hi hi
15:57:29  * peter1139 renames frosch123 the Gnome-oriser
15:57:48  <frosch123> what's that?
15:58:24  <peter1139> It's what the do to Gnome. Remove everything :p
15:58:45  <peter1139> I'd say remove screenshot formats other than PNG, myself.
15:58:47  <frosch123> oh, i am not actually removing... i am only hiding stuff under the carpet
15:59:59  <planetmaker> frosch123, that doesn't fit a carpet anymore. Must be a secret room hidden behind a big painting or so :P
16:07:30  <andythenorth> it’s a whole basement
16:07:39  <andythenorth> open the trapdoor, shove it in the cellar
16:07:44  <andythenorth> close the door quick
16:08:46  <frosch123> well, ottd does not have enough new features, so we have to take the ms office approach: reshuffle the interface on every release so noone finds stuff anymore
16:09:09  <andythenorth> it’s a winner
16:09:13  <andythenorth> works for me every time
16:09:36  <andythenorth> just keep moving stuff to settings-file-only
16:09:45  <andythenorth> it’s the OS X approach :P
16:10:19  <andythenorth> it’s not nearly as fisher-price as the UI suggests
16:10:33  <andythenorth> defaults write com.apple.foo allows a multitude of sins to be perpetrated
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16:30:11  <andythenorth> @seen pikka
16:30:12  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 11 hours, 2 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <Pikka> no, I'm just not in here
16:30:20  <andythenorth> that pikka
16:45:14  <andythenorth> naughty andythenorth
16:51:41  <Eddi|zuHause> this atari landfill thing was looong before i got interested in computers
16:52:48  <Eddi|zuHause> when i got into computers the discussion was "amiga or pc?"
16:53:26  <Eddi|zuHause> and the gameboy was the hype!
16:59:14  <andythenorth> I google for source images, and find stuff I’ve made :(
16:59:16  <andythenorth> not helpful
17:09:22  <andythenorth> bridges on signals?
17:11:03  <Samu> what is the frames per sec of this game, I forgot again. 1 day is 74 tics is all I know
17:11:27  <planetmaker> 33fps
17:11:42  <Samu> thanks again
17:18:58  <Samu> what is the thing used to display the graphics. OpenGL?
17:19:03  <Samu> in fullscreen
17:19:16  <Samu> the API
17:19:20  <planetmaker> usually a graphics card and a monitor :P
17:19:44  <Samu> Bandicam isn't detecting any OpenGL or DirectX application
17:20:01  <planetmaker> because openttd isn't
17:20:49  <planetmaker> it uses blitting
17:21:57  <Samu> GDI Bit Blitting?
17:27:54  <Phreeze>  Parameters of 'bitmask' cannot be greater than 31   <----- too many cargoes ??? got: bitmask(FRVG,FRUT,GRVL,LIME,POTA,SAND,SCMT,SGBT,SGCN,COAL,GRAI,WHEA,MAIZ,IORE,CORE,SUGR,AORE,CLAY,CMNT);
17:29:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: you can only put the first 32 cargos from the CTT into a bitmask
17:29:15  <Eddi|zuHause> use the list properties for refitting
17:29:20  <Eddi|zuHause> leave the bitmask empty
17:29:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be deprecated
17:29:40  <Eddi|zuHause> because it's impractical
17:29:56  <Samu> I managed to capture in fullscreen, though I expected to capture it in the upscaled resolution
17:29:58  <Phreeze> hm i dont get it
17:30:03  <Phreeze> list properties ?
17:31:03  <Phreeze> do i need to use the CC_blabla ?
17:31:20  <Eddi|zuHause> scripts/write_engine.py:        file.write('            refittable_cargo_classes:       %s;\n'%(allowed,))
17:31:22  <Eddi|zuHause> scripts/write_engine.py:        file.write('            non_refittable_cargo_classes:   %s;\n'%(forbidden,))
17:31:23  <Eddi|zuHause> scripts/write_engine.py:        file.write('            cargo_allow_refit:              %s;\n'%(add_cargos,))
17:31:25  <Eddi|zuHause> scripts/write_engine.py:        file.write('            cargo_disallow_refit:           %s;\n'%(rem_cargos,))
17:31:28  <Phreeze> and then just disallow e.g scrap metal if i previously chose CC_bulk
17:31:40  <Phreeze> leave me alone with that python stuff^^
17:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause> these 4 properties you need
17:32:36  <Eddi|zuHause> you should use the cargo classes for cargos that are not yet known
17:32:58  <Eddi|zuHause> someone will invent new cargos in the next 5 years, and you can't always push out updates
17:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause> use the allow/disallow lists for stuff that is already known
17:34:49  <Eddi|zuHause> give lists as "[a,b,c,d]", not as bitmask
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17:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> do not use the "refittable_cargo_types" property at all
17:38:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it has BAD SEMANTICS
17:47:40  <Eddi|zuHause> did that make any sense at all?
17:49:01  <planetmaker> listen to Eddi|zuHause :)
17:49:23  <planetmaker> just those four properties
17:49:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26530 /trunk/src/lang (61 files in 2 dirs) (2014-04-27 17:49:36 UTC)
17:49:46  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:49:47  <DorpsGek> catalan - 19 changes by juanjo
17:49:48  <DorpsGek> english_US - 18 changes by Supercheese
17:49:49  <DorpsGek> italian - 17 changes by lorenzodv
17:49:53  <planetmaker> and list explicitly those known in cargo_(dis)allow_refit. And use classes for yet unknown
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17:57:19  <andythenorth> and don’t disallow classes unless you know exactly what and why
18:08:26  <Phreeze> why is it bad ?
18:08:29  <Phreeze> put a list in, win
18:12:12  <planetmaker> other ways you don't win. Due to time passing and sets doing different things which you can't take care of otherwise
18:17:00  <Phreeze> i'd go for: use CC_bulk etc. and disallow some cargoes you dont want
18:26:06  <andythenorth> if you disallow classes you have more chance of getting caught out by cargo authors doing something odd in future
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18:40:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: there are two problems with "refittable_cargo_types": a) it has this weird 32 cargos limit, and b) it flips both on and off refitability, depending on if the cargo was already covered by any of the cargo classes, so if an industry set changes the cargo classes of the cargo, you get "wrong" results
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18:41:57  <andythenorth> and then there is whining
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18:42:24  <Supercheese> Huh lots of changes in advanced settings
18:42:44  <Supercheese> Oh yay, that means I won't have to translate those \o/
18:42:45  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, frosch123 was on a rampage
18:43:06  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe he should play goat simulator
18:43:11  <Supercheese> I wasn't looking forward to "screenshot format" in Latin
18:43:58  <peter1139> Nothing like a dead language to translate to.
18:44:49  <Eddi|zuHause> what
18:44:59  <Eddi|zuHause> 's the etymology of "screen"?
18:45:00  <Supercheese> Actually, I think Wesnoth already had translated that, now that I think about it
18:45:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine "shot" and "format" are both words that already existed in roman times, just repurposed
18:46:20  <Supercheese> eh, it wouldn't have been that hard, but now I don't even have to ;)
18:46:35  <Phreeze> screenshot format = screenshot format in any language, if you don't mess up the foreign language
18:47:26  <Phreeze> 19:49:54] <@planetmaker> and list explicitly those known in cargo_(dis)allow_refit. And use classes for yet unknown
18:47:33  <Phreeze> the problem is not the cargo
18:47:47  <Phreeze> but for open hoppers e.g i need to assign a sprite to the cargo
18:48:00  <Phreeze> i cant just use black coal sprites for grain or so
18:48:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: that is totally separate
18:48:48  <Phreeze> not really: i have to define sth like : MAIZ: sg_fcs_grain;
18:48:58  <Phreeze> with an unknown cargo, what sprite do i assign ?
18:49:08  <Phreeze> default:  sg_fcs_grain;
18:49:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: it's totally independent from the refitable lists.
18:49:21  <peter1139> Something generic.
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18:49:31  <Phreeze> would show yellow "grains" even if the new cargo was red jelly beans
18:49:32  <Eddi|zuHause> grey sounds good for generic
18:49:48  <peter1139> Cover it with a tarp.
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18:49:55  <Phreeze> haha, that's cheating ;)
18:49:55  <Alberth> some cargos need to be covered in a hopper
18:50:06  <Phreeze> yeah, but not in ottd^^
18:50:07  <Eddi|zuHause> people will care more for actually transporting stuff rather than what it looks like
18:50:15  <Phreeze> in standard vehicles grains are transported "open"
18:50:25  <Eddi|zuHause> people have been playing with dbxl_ecs.grf for years
18:50:25  <peter1139> Make it a big read question-mark.
18:50:29  <Phreeze> hm "people" like me look into deetail :)
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18:50:41  <peter1139> Lots of NewGRFs have covered cargo.
18:50:49  <Alberth> make an update when a new cargo is added :)
18:51:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: but you can't look into the future
18:51:10  <Phreeze> i can ! :>
18:51:27  <Phreeze> "i touch boobs to look into feature. with money-refund garantee"
18:51:28  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: there are 4 billion cargo labels
18:51:50  <Alberth> ok, look into your crystal ball, and do what it tells you :)
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19:04:11  <Phreeze> btw: is it possible to receive an email if new strings are added/changed in the webtranslator ?
19:04:59  <Alberth> currently not afaik
19:05:18  <Phreeze> STR_ERROR_GROUP_CAN_T_SET_PARENT
19:05:22  <Phreeze> {WHITE}Can't set parent group...
19:05:27  <Phreeze> how is it translated in german ? :)
19:05:51  <Phreeze> cant find the word in my own language....(often the german word helps then..)
19:06:04  <Alberth> {WEISS}Kan ja die eltern grouppe nicht zetzen?
19:06:18  <Alberth> (pig-german)
19:06:24  <Phreeze> do
19:06:25  <Phreeze> not
19:06:26  <Phreeze> use
19:06:27  <Phreeze> google
19:06:30  <Phreeze> translate.....anymore
19:06:35  <Alberth> I didn't
19:06:52  <Phreeze> yeah i see ;)
19:07:26  <planetmaker> lol, Alberth :)
19:07:37  <Phreeze> is alberth dutch ?
19:07:52  <Alberth> no, alberth is not a dutch word
19:08:02  * Phreeze slaps Alberth around a bit with a large trout
19:08:19  <planetmaker> *snap* nom nom
19:08:21  <planetmaker> yummi
19:08:38  * planetmaker slaps PHreeze with the fish bone of a large trout
19:08:45  <Phreeze> hey
19:09:46  <Eddi|zuHause> did planetmaker turn into a cat?
19:09:55  <Phreeze> Felix the cat
19:09:57  <Eddi|zuHause> likes fish, catches stuff in mid-flight?
19:10:11  <Alberth> he didn't say meow
19:10:36  <Eddi|zuHause> not all cats meow
19:10:44  <Eddi|zuHause> especially feral cats
19:11:01  <Supercheese> or japanese cats, they nyan
19:11:14  <planetmaker> chhrrrr!
19:11:15  <Phreeze> and fart rainbows
19:11:16  <Supercheese> or maybe just nya
19:11:23  <Supercheese> I can never really tell
19:11:59  <Samu> i created a little video. I'm afraid it's difficult to read text on it
19:12:09  <Samu> https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=23b29f3de45f6f1f&id=23B29F3DE45F6F1F%21599&sff=1
19:12:41  <Phreeze> whats the resolution O_o
19:12:51  <Samu> 1280x720, but try fullscreen
19:12:57  <Supercheese> it seems dynamically compressed
19:13:00  <Samu> should upscale perfect
19:13:10  <Samu> 1920x1080
19:13:12  <Samu> at least
19:13:23  <Supercheese> i.e. when the screen contents are changing rapidly the resolution is dramatically reduced
19:13:39  <Supercheese> but when the screen remains static for a time, the resolution increases
19:13:46  <Phreeze> ship is lost ^^
19:13:57  <Samu> yeah that bug
19:13:59  <Phreeze> k resolution is ok now
19:14:02  <Eddi|zuHause> use less compression
19:14:03  <Samu> it's not lost
19:14:30  <Phreeze> what's the purpose of the video ?
19:14:31  <Eddi|zuHause> set ship pathfinder to YAPF, ships get lost way less
19:15:29  <Phreeze> eddi, {WHITE}Can't set parent group... <-- how do you translate this into german ?
19:16:42  <Samu> pathfinder is YAPF already
19:16:44  <Samu> for ships
19:16:51  <Samu> the server isn't mine btw
19:16:59  <peter1139> Oh god the terrible MIDI music, make it stooooop.
19:17:10  <peter1139> (The Nirvana rip-off, hah)
19:17:12  <Supercheese> "{WHITE}Übergeordnete Gruppe kann nicht gesetzt werden..."
19:17:16  <Supercheese> according to the OTTD source
19:17:28  <Phreeze> hm...
19:17:45  <Phreeze> translates weird into luxembourgish
19:17:56  <Supercheese> "parent" being "the group this subgroup belongs to"
19:18:04  <Samu> also trains and ships are forbiden to take 90 degrees
19:18:05  <Phreeze> yep
19:19:36  <Superuser> Supercheese: we meet again
19:22:37  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: nice reply on the layers of patches
19:23:58  <Samu> Oh about MIDI music
19:24:07  <Samu> the system no longer goes mute
19:24:23  <Samu> the culprit was Adobe Flash
19:25:09  <Samu> if you recall, I had an issue with MIDI music making the whole system sound going mute, that only a reboot would be able to fix
19:27:26  <Samu> it was related to DRM stuff, you know... copyrighted audio parts screwing with the windows audio
19:31:02  <Rubidium> Phreeze: you could use some svn commit monitor and configure it to look only at changes to /trunk/src/lang/english.txt
19:31:12  <Phreeze> ...
19:31:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: sue them for computer sabotage
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19:32:06  <Samu> I went to their tech support forum and geee... so many systems with the same issue
19:32:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26531 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2014-04-27 19:32:22 UTC)
19:32:29  <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish: improve consistency of the usage of max and maximum
19:32:31  <Rubidium> Phreeze: new updates ;)
19:32:38  <Samu> it usually involves a Creative sound card or audio chipset
19:32:51  <Samu> which I have
19:32:52  <Phreeze> translation currently locked...gna...
19:33:09  <Phreeze> 3 strings to validate ...
19:33:12  <Rubidium> Samu: then it isn't flash, but it's the driver/hardware of the sound card
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19:33:47  <Rubidium> Phreeze: should be more than just 3
19:33:51  <Samu> well, I uninstalled adobe flash, never installed it again, and my system has never been muted
19:34:04  <Samu> ever since
19:34:17  <Phreeze> it's 3 left
19:34:26  <Phreeze> checked the 30 other ones already and added the 3 new
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19:45:46  * Rubidium sees 14 strings needing translation for Luxembourgish
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20:01:27  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26532 /branches/1.4 (57 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-27 20:01:21 UTC)
20:01:28  <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Backport: language updates
20:05:42  <planetmaker> good night
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20:40:57  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26533 /trunk/src (59 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-27 20:40:52 UTC)
20:40:58  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Rename some strings
20:41:11  <Phreeze> ...locked again :D
20:41:15  <Phreeze> damn commiter
20:41:16  <Phreeze> s
20:41:23  <planetmaker> lol :)
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20:41:54  <frosch123> will happen again :)
20:42:10  <frosch123> i just have to wait to not completely break it again
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20:46:36  <frosch123> Phreeze: please do not retranslate the strings i am removing now :)
20:46:49  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26534 /trunk/src/lang (57 files in 2 dirs) (2014-04-27 20:46:43 UTC)
20:46:50  <DorpsGek> -Remove: Soon unneeded translations.
20:50:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: that's what you get for trying to do work in one of the two months where actual development happens :)
20:51:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there's only ever development in april and november. other times it's either "the weather is too nice" or "the release is too close"
20:51:35  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26535 /trunk/src/lang (56 files in 2 dirs) (2014-04-27 20:51:28 UTC)
20:51:36  <DorpsGek> -Remove: Missed one
20:53:02  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26536 /trunk/src (lang/english.txt settings_gui.cpp) (2014-04-27 20:52:56 UTC)
20:53:03  <DorpsGek> -Change: Reshuffle advanced settings tree.
20:54:24  <Supercheese> Oh man
20:54:33  <Supercheese> my poor, poor translation working copy
20:54:36  <Supercheese> is now horribly outdated
20:55:02  <planetmaker> the strings themselves did not change really
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20:55:17  <Supercheese> lots removed though
20:55:35  <Supercheese> I'm not really complaining, but yeah, actual development
20:55:37  <Supercheese> zounds
20:55:42  <frosch123> Phreeze: you can continue for today :)
20:55:59  <frosch123> planetmaker: even german is unfinished
20:56:16  <Eddi|zuHause> these lazy german translators all the time
20:56:21  <frosch123> i am removing strings and all languages are unfinished nevertheless :p
20:56:28  <planetmaker> again? I finished it already once today :P
20:57:18  <__ln___> once Supercheese's latin translation is finished, it shall replace English as the primary source language for all other translations, right
20:57:19  <planetmaker> omg... what's a good translation of 'authority'?
20:57:28  <planetmaker> "Gebietskörperschaft". yeah... sure :P
20:57:30  <Supercheese> I should hope not
20:57:31  <frosch123> Verwaltung
20:57:36  <Supercheese> I am far from perfect
20:57:46  <Supercheese> there are bound to be errors
20:57:55  <frosch123> "Öffentliche Verwaltung" even
20:58:03  <Supercheese> Auctoritas ;)
20:59:12  <Phreeze> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_ACCOUNTING
20:59:19  <Phreeze> in what context is this meant ?
20:59:23  <Phreeze> {ORANGE}Accounting
20:59:27  <frosch123> Phreeze: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/settings2014_2.png
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20:59:40  <Eddi|zuHause> "Buchhaltung"
20:59:51  <Phreeze> planetmaker : AuthoritÀt would fit the best
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21:00:16  <Phreeze> other strings might be too long for the button etc. imho
21:00:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: buttons scale with the text
21:00:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: and that is a horrible translation
21:00:47  <Phreeze> Stadtrat could be one too xD
21:00:54  <planetmaker> no sound yet, frosch123 ?
21:01:06  <Phreeze> Behörde <--- ???
21:01:20  <Phreeze> accounting
21:01:23  <Phreeze> fc
21:02:08  <planetmaker> ah, nvm. changed strings
21:02:34  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: can you make this image with all default values?
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21:02:58  <frosch123> no :p
21:03:00  <frosch123> why?
21:03:05  <planetmaker> wiki
21:03:17  <Eddi|zuHause> for the wiki, as reference
21:03:26  <frosch123> then wait till it is done
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21:04:02  <Supercheese> oh poop
21:04:19  <Supercheese> should all of these setting titles be genitive, since they are types of settings...?
21:04:20  <frosch123> it will gain some more settings from other windows
21:04:37  <planetmaker> Supercheese, I don't think so
21:04:44  <planetmaker> Those are titles
21:04:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: what has genitive to do with anything?
21:04:59  <Supercheese> "These are station settings"
21:05:13  <Supercheese> hmm
21:05:22  <Supercheese> Yeah, guess not
21:05:23  <Eddi|zuHause> no, they are standalone nouns
21:06:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know any latin at all, but in german i'd use "Nominativ"
21:06:45  <Supercheese> Latin cases correspond pretty much exactly to German cases from what I know
21:06:48  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: do you know czech maybe?
21:07:16  <frosch123> Supercheese: not at all, german has 4 of the 7 latin cases
21:07:17  <Eddi|zuHause> not nearly as far as to the point where cases matter :p
21:07:24  <frosch123> Supercheese: or rather 3
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21:07:29  * frosch123 hides
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21:07:49  <Eddi|zuHause> "nobody uses genitive anymore"?
21:08:10  <frosch123> except in fixed phrases
21:08:30  <Eddi|zuHause> "Wem seins is die Kaffeetasse?"
21:08:33  <Supercheese> Latin really only has 5 major cases
21:08:48  <Supercheese> so it seems German has amalgamated ablative into one of the other 4
21:08:49  <planetmaker> Tu quoque!
21:09:25  <Eddi|zuHause> "you chicken"?
21:09:31  <planetmaker> Tu quoque, Brute, mee filie
21:09:33  <frosch123> Supercheese: into dativ mostly
21:09:50  <frosch123> using prepositions
21:09:52  <Supercheese> makes sense, even in Latin ablative and dative are similar
21:10:46  <Eddi|zuHause> that's usually the point where learning foreign languages is most difficult: distinguishing things that are merged in your native language
21:11:12  <Eddi|zuHause> like "ser" and "estar" in spanish
21:11:37  <Rubidium> what's more annoying is that words have slightly different meanings
21:11:42  <Supercheese> oh yes, that one always trips me up
21:12:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: well that's vocabulary, it's solvable by investing enough time in it
21:12:45  <frosch123> oh, i was quite suprised yesterday when i heard an english speaker trying to pronounce "euer", which results in something quite close to "your"
21:12:56  <Supercheese> "oooh-err"
21:13:10  <Supercheese> eu being "oy" is very strange to English speakers
21:13:35  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: well the words ARE closely related
21:14:10  <Eddi|zuHause> many german words you can turn into english by simple vowel shift
21:14:20  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: well, i would have guessed them to be unreleted before. but now it looks only like some small shift
21:14:54  <planetmaker> it sure is
21:15:04  <Eddi|zuHause> most of the time german shifted while english stayed
21:15:31  <planetmaker> leur in French surely is also the same
21:15:34  <frosch123> yeah, weird people on islands
21:15:41  <frosch123> they have stuff like kangaroos and such
21:16:49  <Supercheese> Soooo, in STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PATHFINDER_FOR_TRAINS and associated HELPTEXT
21:16:57  <Supercheese> sometimes it's "pathfinder" all one word
21:17:03  <Supercheese> other times "path finder" separated
21:17:15  <Supercheese> any particular reason for that...?
21:18:07  <Rubidium> I doubt there's a good reason for it
21:18:42  <Rubidium> just inconsistency... and that's not uncommon because it's an evolving set of strings
21:19:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not a native speaker, but i would combine them
21:19:43  <Supercheese> I vote to combine them
21:19:52  <Supercheese> it's almost always found compounded as a single word
21:20:03  <Supercheese> i.e. Nissan Pathfinder, Mars Pathfinder
21:20:34  <Supercheese> errr, e.g.
21:20:38  <Supercheese> damnit
21:20:41  <Eddi|zuHause> interesting fact: in german i'd use "search" insead of "find" in the word
21:21:18  <Eddi|zuHause> "Pfadfinder" sounds very boyscout-y
21:21:27  <Supercheese> or military
21:21:35  <Supercheese> Pathfinding Corps
21:21:40  <Eddi|zuHause> whereas "Pfadsuche" will actually be understood as what that thing does
21:23:18  <Rubidium> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3281/ <- lines in english.txt per release (about 20% larger than the actual number of strings)
21:24:22  <Eddi|zuHause> filter out empty lines and comments first?
21:24:34  <Rubidium> TMWFTLB
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21:25:08  <Eddi|zuHause> grep -v?
21:25:37  <Eddi|zuHause> so it almost doubled since i came here
21:25:45  <Rubidium> find . -iname english.txt|xargs wc -l
21:26:10  <Rubidium> grep -v will mean I'd need at least a for loop and something to print the version
21:26:25  <Eddi|zuHause> find -exec
21:26:37  <Rubidium> and actually I'd use grep ^STR
21:27:13  <Eddi|zuHause> that even leaves out the "unsafe" xargs
21:27:26  <andythenorth> bye
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21:27:49  <Rubidium> good idea andy ;)
21:28:35  <Eddi|zuHause> andy has so many ideas, some of them are bound to be good :p
21:32:22  <Supercheese> Beer; always a good idea
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21:58:43  <frosch123> night
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22:14:43  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:11:27  <Snail> anyone knows how to download an old stable version of ottd?
23:13:18  *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3FC3.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
23:15:47  <FLHerne> Snail: binaries.openttd.org/binaries/releases/index.html
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23:16:55  <Snail> thanksQ
23:16:57  <Snail> thanks!
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23:41:31  <Samu> when i download using the online content downloader, sometimes I get an upgrade available, i download it, and next time I check, it's still available again
23:41:40  <Samu> is this a bug?
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