Log for #openttd on 28th April 2014:
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04:19:45  <LSky> morning
04:20:27  <Flygon> Menta
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04:40:08  <supermop> hi
04:46:56  <LSky> hi
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08:17:31  <supermop> how do CC work in 32bpp?
08:18:15  <peter1139> Magic. Also by use of an 8bpp mask.
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08:30:05  <planetmaker> supermop, you provide 32bpp sprite. And additionally an 8bpp (DOS palette) in the exact same size which provides the recolour information
08:30:39  <planetmaker> The 8bpp defines the hue modification made to the 32bpp sprite
08:30:58  <supermop> ok
08:31:14  <supermop> the cc area of the 32bpp part can just be grey then?
08:31:57  <supermop> i seem to have forgotten how to draw closed polygonal paths in illustrator since last night
08:32:50  <supermop> i feel it was next to the pen tool, yet i don't see anything there
08:32:59  <planetmaker> it could be just gray. But it could define brightness variation as well
08:33:12  <supermop> i take this to mean i should get a beer and try in a bit again
08:34:25  <supermop> planetmaker: if i draw a 32bpp grey gradient then mask with solid uniform color in the 8bpp mask, that will give me a smooth gradient of the CC?
08:35:17  <peter1139> Approximately.
08:35:18  <supermop> and if i say draw a beige gradient,
08:35:19  <planetmaker> I think so.
08:35:30  <peter1139> No, only the brightness is used.
08:35:50  <supermop> then i get dingy CC?
08:36:31  <supermop> ok
08:37:37  <supermop> so regardless of what color i draw the area under the mask, only it's absolute brightness is considered, not hue nor saturation?
08:38:17  <supermop> a bit of cart before the horse though until i remember how to draw this polygon
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08:38:50  <peter1139> Yup
08:39:02  <peter1139> Best to stick to grey, in case that changes one day.
08:39:19  <supermop> not nested with the line segment nor rectangle tools
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08:40:25  <supermop> and i used it 30 times yesterday
08:41:12  <supermop> too bad there is no history pallet like in photoshop
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08:44:45  <supermop> ah it is the pen tool itself afterall,
08:45:02  <supermop> just need to click instead of click and drag
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09:19:52  <Samu> hi all
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10:06:42  <Wolf01> moin
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10:14:48  <peter1139> "Out of memory"
10:14:51  <peter1139> Never seen that before :p
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10:25:46  <Samu> hey, when I read 1.4.0 was going to use SSE2 instructions, I thought it would no longer run on my Athlon XP
10:25:52  <Samu> glad it still works
10:26:19  <Samu> kudos to u
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10:29:11  <peter1139> It can, but it's optional.
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10:35:33  <Samu> Specialised animated SSE4 blitter, and non-animated SSE4.1, SSSE3 and SSE2 blitters
10:35:42  <Samu> must I use a command line for that?
10:36:16  <planetmaker> no. They're used automatically, if hardware supports it
10:38:06  <Samu> alright, thx
10:44:04  <Samu> hmm my cpu doesn't support SSE4, but supports SSE4A, is there a difference?
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10:50:38  <Samu> Supports SSE-4A, SSE-4.1, SSE-4.2, SSSE-3, SSE-3, SSE-2, but not SSE-4. Hope I'm not being paranoid, though I've been some crashes on openttd startup
10:51:01  <Samu> been having*
10:51:25  <Samu> it's not always, just quite random
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10:59:03  <planetmaker> that happens. And if you follow the suggested procedure to look at our bug tracker and open a new issue if the same thing hasn't been reported, then and only then there's a chance that they can be fixed
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10:59:34  <planetmaker> and of course opening an issue means to provide all the files OpenTTD asks you to provide
11:00:10  <peter1139> planetmaker, for me it automatically uses 32bpp-anim, so...
11:01:50  <peter1139> Hmm, 32bpp-optimized, heh.
11:02:08  <Samu> the crash is immediately on start up, not even the OpenTTD window opens
11:02:20  <Samu> there's no crash log
11:02:22  <planetmaker> peter1139, no blitter specified in cfg?
11:02:22  <peter1139> Ah, 32bpp-ssse3 when I pick zBase
11:02:25  <Samu> but it's very rare
11:02:42  <peter1139> Samu, if it's not every time, then it's not an SSE problem, I would think.
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11:04:23  <peter1139> And stays with 32bpp-anim if I leave palette animation on. Makes sense.
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11:05:08  <peter1139> And damn zBase's silly double-size icons :(
11:05:27  <Samu> im using the opengfx or original windows
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11:05:41  <Samu> zbase is listed, but im not using it
11:07:45  <Samu> what I like from the original_windows set is the fat mouse cursor
11:07:59  <Samu> improves my accuracy
11:08:28  <Samu> not much about the rest
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11:10:56  <Samu> oh yeah, the trees, they're in my opinion, better looking
11:12:03  <peter1139> Okay, big question ahead.
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11:12:08  <peter1139> Tea of coffee?
11:12:13  <Samu> tea
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11:20:58  <Samu> I found the error in windows logs
11:21:08  <Samu> it's a kernel event error
11:21:14  <Samu> is that worrysome?
11:27:29  <Samu> im posting on bug tracker
11:27:31  <Samu> brb
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11:29:24  <Samu> bah i always forget my password
11:29:55  <peter1139> That's why things like KeePass exist.
11:30:28  <Samu> just got in :)
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11:50:36  <Samu>
11:55:43  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't really tell anything
11:56:36  <Samu> i found a crash log apparently, let me upload
11:56:53  <Samu> it's of 2 days ago though
12:00:03  <Samu> uploaded
12:02:04  <peter1139>  Blitter:      8bpp-optimized
12:03:29  <Samu> is that bad?
12:03:41  <peter1139> No it just means it's absolutely nothing to do with SSE.
12:03:45  <V453000> everything is bad
12:03:48  <planetmaker> no. But the proof that all chit-chat about SSE blitter is totally unrelated
12:03:58  <Samu> oki
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12:27:11  <supermop> eclipse tomorrow
12:27:18  <supermop> and i dont have glasses...
12:30:35  <planetmaker> solar?
12:32:37  <peter1139> Of the heart.
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12:40:07  <supermop> solar
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13:00:15  <Eddi|zuHause> you probably don't need glasses for a lunar eclipse :p
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14:42:28  <peter1139> Eddi|zuHause,
14:42:55  <Eddi|zuHause> oh...
14:43:03  <Eddi|zuHause> that must be extreme luck
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15:21:32  <SylvieLorxu> Hey everyone, I was wondering if there was any way to have the online content browser which is included in OpenTTD (I run 1.1.4 on Trisquel GNU/Linux) list the licenses. I'd like to know what license something I download is under, especially if it isn't necessarily the same license as the game
15:24:10  <Taede> online content browser has a license button, which allows you to see the license under which a specific item is released
15:24:13  <Taede> on 1.4.0 anyway
15:24:25  <Taede> may have been added somewhere between 1.1.4 and 1.4.0
15:25:09  <SylvieLorxu> Ah, okay, then it's probably just me being outdated
15:25:33  <SylvieLorxu> Thanks a lot, Taede
15:25:44  <Taede> yw
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15:46:29  <DanMacK> Hey all
15:47:52  <SylvieLorxu> Hi
15:50:19  <Taede> ello
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16:03:43  <Phreeze> day
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16:25:09  <Alberth> evenink
16:26:04  <planetmaker> oddink
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16:28:24  <Rubidium> EHLO
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16:34:18  <Samu> to host a server, port forwarding is UDP or TCP or both?
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16:34:36  <Samu> and have it advertised
16:35:00  <planetmaker> both. on both ports
16:35:25  <Samu> ok, i hosted a game, let's see whoever joins
16:36:53  <Samu> hmm nop, it's not on the list, i failed somewhere
16:39:05  <Samu> aha, it's there
16:39:06  <Samu>
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16:46:43  <Phreeze> wait a sec i join ;)
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17:27:40  <Samu> can the game auto pause when there are no players, even AIs?
17:28:07  <Samu> there's AI's in it :(
17:28:16  <peter1139> Should be able to.
17:28:31  <Samu> ok let me find the setting
17:30:07  <Samu> network.min_active_clients = 0
17:31:00  <Taede> set that to 1
17:31:06  <Taede> only works for dedicated servers though
17:31:43  <planetmaker> well, in single player it's pointless :D
17:32:11  <planetmaker> maybe also with non-dedicated ones
17:32:21  <Samu> i am spectator
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17:33:34  <Samu> hmm, not pausing, i kicked all AI's
17:33:39  <Samu> let me restart
17:34:05  <planetmaker> AIs don't count towards the client limit
17:34:35  <Samu> there were 2 non-ai companies, but there was no one else in the game, just me as spectator
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17:36:52  <LordAro> quak
17:36:58  <frosch123> hola
17:40:14  <Samu> automatically pause when starting a new game: on, let me try off
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17:47:50  <Samu> meh, doesn't work, i'll figure it out later
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17:49:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26537 /trunk/src/lang (57 files in 2 dirs) (2014-04-28 17:49:35 UTC)
17:49:49  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:49:50  <DorpsGek> catalan - 24 changes by juanjo
17:49:51  <DorpsGek> english_US - 25 changes by Supercheese
17:49:52  <DorpsGek> finnish - 31 changes by jpx_
17:49:53  <DorpsGek> german - 32 changes by planetmaker
17:49:54  <DorpsGek> korean - 43 changes by telk5093
17:49:55  <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 39 changes by Phreeze
17:49:56  <DorpsGek> russian - 17 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:52:13  <Samu> strange, i can't spectate anymore?
17:52:36  <Phreeze> ?
17:52:40  <Phreeze> max clients ?
17:52:42  <Samu> i restarted server
17:52:46  <Phreeze> spectators off ?
17:52:53  <Samu> and on the restart i couldn't move myself to spectator
17:53:16  <Phreeze> is it the 64 64 map ?
17:53:19  <Samu> is it off?
17:53:20  <Samu> yes
17:53:23  <Phreeze> i spectated ;)
17:54:07  <Samu> strange behaviour, i could build an HQ, but i was autocleaned
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17:57:24  <Samu> lol, it happened again
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17:57:40  <Samu> i was building a route, boom... autocleaned
17:58:05  <Rubidium> you set the rules for it
17:58:13  <Rubidium> apparantly a bit too soon ;)
17:58:25  <Samu> i wasn't colored
17:58:32  <Samu> but i was playing on company 1
17:58:39  <Samu> client list didn't agree
17:59:14  <Samu> i am pretty sure this is a bug
17:59:25  <Samu> let me try another way
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18:00:06  <Samu> ok, i created a server again, back from the multiplayer menu
18:00:10  <Samu> now I'm orange
18:00:21  <Samu> client list also lists me as orange
18:00:29  <Samu> now moving to spectator
18:00:45  <Samu> not colored anymore
18:02:14  <Samu> company was autoclean
18:02:28  <Samu> now i'm typing restart in the console
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18:02:56  <Samu> I can build as orange, again
18:03:05  <Samu> but on the client list, i am not orange, im without a color
18:03:48  <Samu> i can build stuff apparently
18:03:57  <Samu> but autoclean counter is ticking
18:05:11  <Phreeze> im not a server expert
18:05:13  <Phreeze> sry
18:05:15  <Samu> autocleaned again
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18:35:57  <planetmaker> Samu, "restart" in the console will restart your client. only 'rcon PW "restart"' will restart the server
18:37:22  <Samu> some weird things happening
18:37:41  <Samu> my name was suddenly changed to Joyful Propeica
18:37:50  <Samu> that was not my name
18:37:53  <Samu> it's Samu
18:38:10  <Samu> that's someone else
18:38:23  <Samu> how did I get his name?
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18:41:00  <Alberth> did you set a password on your company?
18:41:13  <Samu> yes, it's automaticaly set
18:44:49  <Phreeze> lol
18:44:55  <Phreeze> running gamescripts ?
18:46:28  <Samu> no, i joined vulturis server
18:46:35  <Samu> i had a company there before
18:47:00  <Samu> i said hi, and right away it said my name was Joyful Propeica...
18:47:14  <Samu> joyful propeica: hi
18:47:20  <Samu> should be Samu: hi
18:47:42  <Samu> vulturis server is running a script i guess
18:47:46  <Samu> there's a goal
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18:58:09  <Samu> planetmaker: when i type restart, a player that was in the game, came along shortly after
18:58:35  <Samu> only I get placed in the wrong slot
18:58:53  <Samu> should become spectator if I restart while being a spectator
18:59:28  <planetmaker> yes
18:59:35  <planetmaker> and that's what happens for me
19:00:01  <Samu> it starts a company 1
19:00:11  <Samu> there's some issue with it
19:00:31  <Samu> I can build as company 1, but I'm not on it, according to client list
19:00:41  <Samu> I didn't try the rcon command yet
19:06:30  <planetmaker> hm, do we have a quick method to see which container format a grf file is encoded with?
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19:07:56  <andythenorth> o/
19:08:06  <Samu> just tried rcon PW "restart"
19:08:11  <Samu> it does the same thing
19:08:32  <Samu> i can build as company 1 while the client list puts me as spectator
19:09:15  <Samu> expecting the autoclean to kill me
19:09:28  <Rubidium> planetmaker: md5sum grf == grfid -m grf ?
19:10:06  <Samu> yup, autocleaned
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19:12:06  <planetmaker> hm, true :) thx, Rubidium
19:12:21  <Taede> this raises a question wrt to non-dedicated servers
19:12:57  <Taede> should the hosting player be allowed to build for company #1 even though the player is not actually within the company?
19:12:57  <planetmaker> Rubidium, I can't grfstrip 32bpp from container format1, right?
19:14:28  <Rubidium> planetmaker: I wonder how you'd manage to get 32bpp graphics in container format 1
19:15:54  <frosch123> it's quite trivial :)
19:16:09  <frosch123> the stripping of the 32bpp graphics i mean
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19:31:51  <Samu> done:
19:32:41  <planetmaker> Rubidium, then I probably didn't :)
19:33:04  <LordAro> was it ever worked out if OTTD was originally reverse-engineered (from the assembly) or from scratch?
19:33:37  <frosch123> i wouldn't know, but what is the difference?
19:33:44  <planetmaker> Only one who knows
19:34:22  <LordAro> well, this openrct2 keeps popping up, along with OTTD as an "example" for reverse engineering
19:35:43  <planetmaker> how is openrctX related to openttd's origin?
19:36:09  <LordAro> because it definitely has been reverse engineered from the assembly
19:36:57  <LordAro> and laughably, stuck a GPLv3 license on it
19:37:21  <planetmaker> so it seems
19:37:40  <planetmaker> "An open source clone of Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 built by decompiling the original game one bit at a time."
19:38:10  <frosch123> sounds like opendune
19:38:23  <frosch123> hmm, though that was even more weird
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19:38:38  <frosch123> LordAro: anyway, they say they use sdl2 :)
19:38:58  <LordAro> ...which is included as a .dll in their git repo D:
19:39:25  <planetmaker> that's the easy approach
19:39:34  <planetmaker> you don't have to worry about versions and stuff of libraries
19:39:41  <frosch123> we also have an ottd useful package for the issues with windows
19:39:50  <LordAro> but.. binary files... git repo..
19:40:02  <frosch123> not every os comes with a big package manager which gives you everything
19:40:21  <frosch123> LordAro: ottd also has .grf files :)
19:40:41  <frosch123> binary files are fine if you do not care about the history
19:40:55  <LordAro> fine then
19:41:02  <LordAro> their *own* executable in the git repo
19:41:06  <planetmaker> for libraries it's even fine if you care. But it adds (avoidable) bloat
19:41:19  <frosch123> LordAro: ok, that's unusual
19:41:39  <andythenorth> ho
19:41:50  <andythenorth> cdist requires a lot more ‘no loading’ orders than normal :)
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19:50:07  * andythenorth has some ideas...
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19:52:19  <andythenorth> Alberth: can you remember why consists got mired in doom and gloom last time it was seriously discussed?
19:52:21  <andythenorth> no?
19:52:27  <andythenorth> me neither, can we discuss again?
19:53:11  <planetmaker> what does "mired in doom and gloom" mean?
19:53:21  <planetmaker> and how did they happen to die?
19:53:26  <LordAro> on an unrelated matter, what's wrong with this? it causes invalid read/writes
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19:53:46  <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you need a literal translation, or the sense of the phrase? :D
19:55:56  <Alberth> andythenorth: for me the first step was to have consists in the implementation, instead of just chains of train vehicles, but that failed when I tried. In the mean time michi did some work there, although I haven't checked what exactly
19:56:17  <Rubidium> LordAro: you'd have to be more precise about where it thinks it has invalid reads/writes
19:56:32  <andythenorth> I have been doing a lot of auto-replace recently
19:56:38  <Rubidium> LordAro: it *might* be some optimisations in libc causing it
19:56:39  <planetmaker> andythenorth, literal. Expanding my vocabulary. Intention is clear :)
19:56:58  <LordAro> Rubidium: the snprintf
19:57:09  <andythenorth> mired = stuck, like in mud.  Horses get mired in swamps and die.  Think of the sad bit of Neverending Story
19:57:23  <planetmaker> oh :(
19:57:32  <planetmaker> thanks :)
19:57:35  <andythenorth> ‘doom and gloom’ = colloquialism for looking on the down side
19:57:44  <andythenorth> like dang and sturm I think, without the anger
19:57:45  <andythenorth> maybe
19:57:50  <andythenorth> my german is not good
19:57:50  <Rubidium> LordAro: might be the libc optimisation; did your libc get updated recently and valgrind wasn't?
19:57:59  <andythenorth> also known as ‘eeyore tendency’
19:58:26  <LordAro> Rubidium: arch... so unlikely?
19:58:41  <LordAro> the people in ##c suggested something to do with the cast might be screwing it up
19:58:58  <andythenorth> doom and gloom is what happens when we want to do a feature, and a train nerd turns up and argues for three hours straight about why we must do it their way
19:59:11  <andythenorth> even if the implementation doesn’t support it
19:59:13  <Rubidium> that shouldn't cause out-of-bounds reads or writes
19:59:33  <Rubidium> though, that's easy to check. Remove the const from line 2 and the cast on line 8
19:59:33  <andythenorth> doom and gloom is what happens if you read an Andrex thread.  Or trolling.
20:00:02  <andythenorth> trolling is an acceptable response to doom and gloom
20:00:11  <Rubidium> what... I thought my reply was superb ;)
20:00:43  <planetmaker> unrelated, can sphinx also generate a nice one-file readme.txt file instead of sets of rich text or html files?
20:00:52  <LordAro> hmm, removing the const is more difficult, due to the -Werror :L
20:00:55  <planetmaker> I somehow didn't find that but feel I must overlook it
20:01:04  <Rubidium> LordAro: why?
20:01:22  <LordAro> Rubidium: errors wherever it's used
20:01:52  <Rubidium> but no alloc should return a const pointer
20:02:01  <Rubidium> if it does, then it's stupid
20:02:06  <LordAro> no, the result of the function
20:02:07  * andythenorth been wondering if ‘consists’ should be done as an extension of auto-replace.
20:02:14  <LordAro> Rubidium: this is actually C, rather than C++
20:02:36  <andythenorth> also could we auto-replace to ‘none’?
20:02:44  <Rubidium> LordAro: I am not talking about the const in line 1, only the one in line 2
20:03:07  <Rubidium> non-const to const conversion are "free"
20:03:32  <LordAro> apparently not, since it error'd
20:03:54  <Rubidium> really?
20:03:56  <Rubidium> that's stupid
20:04:31  <LordAro> error: returning 'char **' from a function with result type 'const char **' discards qualifiers in nested pointer types
20:04:45  <andythenorth> Alberth: can you remember what you got stuck on?
20:05:15  <Alberth> train replacement, iirc
20:05:44  <Rubidium> LordAro: then add a const char ** cast at the return
20:06:12  <Rubidium> it's just to prove that it's not the const that's giving the memory overread error
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20:07:23  <LordAro> Rubidium: same message indeed
20:08:38  <andythenorth> Alberth: allowing that I know nothing about the implementation, I wondered about using the current auto-replace machinery to handle preserving cargo etc
20:08:52  * andythenorth has a picture in brain, but not words to explain it :P
20:10:39  <Alberth> andythenorth: it breaks the train into vehicles, and replaces them. Thanks to NewGRF weirdnesses, you cannot split at arbitrary points, so after splitting checks are done for newgrf consistency, and more shuffles were done if needed. If you have just 2 chains of vehicles moving a vehicle is changing its chain. If you also have a consist, you have to handle the consist too. Last but not least, if it fails, there is a backup original layout,
20:11:31  <Alberth> in all it proved too complicated for me, at least at the time
20:11:42  <andythenorth> Alberth: we can’t ‘just’ store the cargo packets, scrap the train, and build a new one, then load it?
20:12:26  <andythenorth> I guess there’s vehicle age and reliability and crap :P
20:12:41  <Alberth> you need to preserve buy time, services, breakdowns, and crap, indeed :)
20:13:27  <andythenorth> yeah newgrf attaches a very big boat anchor to this
20:13:43  <andythenorth> FWIW, the sets I’m doing have none of these fricking stupid restrictions
20:14:22  <andythenorth> well I can do the scrap-and-buy-a-new-one myself with clone
20:14:34  <Alberth> great, now I have to program it, and it's not even used :p
20:14:50  <andythenorth> it just feels like an inefficient use of capital due to depreciation :P
20:14:57  * andythenorth is a model capitalist
20:15:16  <Alberth> nah, as long as the bottom line is positive, it's ok
20:15:25  <Alberth> it's just virtual money any way :)
20:15:58  <andythenorth> scrap-and-buy seems completely clunky as a way of adding e.g. just one wagon to 8 trains
20:16:21  <andythenorth> and I have to do it for empty trains only
20:16:33  <Alberth> I tend to do that manually
20:16:47  <andythenorth> I do, but it’s annoying enough to try and find a solution
20:17:12  <andythenorth> esp. e.g. when you need double or triple engines in early game, then not later
20:17:28  <andythenorth> but again, scrap-and-buy is totally a solution, if you look at it only logically
20:17:42  <Alberth> it is indeed
20:17:48  * andythenorth wonders if automating scrap-and-buy would be a good move
20:18:04  <andythenorth> “replace this train with a clone of train x"
20:18:35  <andythenorth> I can’t see how consists would *ever* handle the stupid newgrf stuff easily
20:18:55  <andythenorth> whereas “replace with clone of existing train” puts the work on the player to build the first consist
20:19:00  <Alberth> feels like stacking more crap onto the current system without a nice goal in the end
20:19:15  <andythenorth> well that’s a proven approach so far :)
20:19:32  <Alberth> consists also need to be constructed by the player
20:19:47  <andythenorth> ah
20:19:48  <Alberth> you just don't have to buy them
20:20:07  <Alberth> ie they are not rotting in a depot somewhere :)
20:20:28  <andythenorth> hmm
20:20:51  <andythenorth> also related but different, there is no fast way to assign shared-orders to all trains in a group
20:21:02  <andythenorth> I don’t know why I only noticed that today, but it suddenly seems very painful
20:21:16  <andythenorth> maybe it is because I have a toddler who builds 20 planes without orders, then wants them all routed
20:21:29  <Alberth> groups are sufficiently broken to be useless imho
20:21:36  <andythenorth> ha :)
20:21:42  <andythenorth> they work brilliantly for me currently
20:21:50  <andythenorth> I am one of their few fans I think
20:22:04  <Alberth> I think they have lots of fans
20:22:29  <Alberth> I just don't care much for the rolling stock :p
20:35:14  <Xaroth|Work> LordAro: I'm tempted to open an issue at openrct2 pointing that out tbh
20:35:40  <LordAro> :p
20:39:23  <Xaroth|Work> and to be fair, OpenDUNE also has a GPL2 license file attached :P
20:40:57  <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker:
20:41:12  <Xaroth|Work> funny, he actually looked at openttd 0.1 o_O
20:42:00  <planetmaker> well, that's the state of his project. So that's where I'd compare, too :)
20:42:45  * Xaroth|Work shrugs
20:47:04  * LordAro grumbles about all the attention it is getting
20:50:03  <Xaroth|Work> hm, the man has a point though
20:50:06  <Xaroth|Work> looking at the 0.1 source
20:50:15  <Xaroth|Work> looks quite a lot like IDA processing :P
20:51:12  <planetmaker> yup :)
20:51:29  <planetmaker> but who knows...
20:52:29  <Xaroth|Work> ludde does, duh :p
20:54:00  <peter1139> What's the problem with it?
20:54:18  <Xaroth|Work> with what?
20:54:30  <peter1139> OpenRCT2
20:55:04  <Xaroth|Work> other than it making a statement that openttd was reverse engineered, not much tbh
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20:55:27  <peter1139> What's the problem there?
20:55:37  <LordAro> well, the GPLv3 license and the very obvious reverse engineered code are a bit dubious also
20:56:06  <Xaroth|Work> peter1139: to my knowledge the dev team has taken no stance in whether or not openttd has been reverse engineered or not
20:56:21  <peter1139> Uh... what?
20:57:00  * andythenorth smokes a bit of crack
20:57:13  <andythenorth> if that’s what we’re doing here
20:57:15  <andythenorth> :
20:57:16  <peter1139> andythenorth, care to share? I might understand some more...
20:57:16  <andythenorth> :)
20:57:27  <andythenorth> I’ll mail some
20:57:29  <andythenorth> no warranty
20:57:34  <andythenorth> crackware
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21:00:24  <Xaroth|Work> funneh, ludde lives
21:00:41  <Wolf01> 'night all
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21:00:50  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:01:10  <peter1139> Xaroth|Work, why does it need a stance? That's like taking a stance over whether the Thames is in London or not.
21:01:56  <pthagnar> well
21:01:57  <pthagnar> partly
21:02:02  <pthagnar> most of it isn't
21:02:04  <pthagnar> i think
21:02:05  <frosch123> i haven't been to london, i couldn't tell
21:02:15  <peter1139> :-)
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21:03:29  <Rubidium> depends on the definition of London I guess
21:03:43  <pthagnar> that would involve taking a stance
21:03:47  <pthagnar> qed
21:04:31  <peter1139> o_O
21:04:52  <andythenorth> am I allowed to win SV by storing up cargo and then delivering it all at once?
21:05:06  <planetmaker> andythenorth, why not?
21:05:19  <planetmaker> The problem might be storing all the cargo
21:05:30  <andythenorth> stop vehicles
21:06:00  <planetmaker> you'll need *many* vehicles
21:06:12  <planetmaker> and what's the gain in the sudden-death delivery?
21:06:23  <Rubidium> but then... it's the same question as: are you the same person as you were a decade ago?
21:06:36  <planetmaker> would make sense in competive MP, possibly
21:06:51  *** MrShell [~mrshell@] has quit []
21:06:57  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26538 /trunk/src (24 files in 8 dirs) (2014-04-28 21:06:51 UTC)
21:06:58  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: remove double accounting of the drivers
21:07:49  <frosch123> andythenorth: just count correctly :)
21:08:10  <frosch123> don't deliver 10 tons to few from one of the industries
21:08:48  <andythenorth> he :)
21:09:24  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26539 trunk/src/driver.cpp (2014-04-28 21:09:19 UTC)
21:09:25  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5994]: [Windows] Crash due to assuming (formerly) _video_driver is being set before the operating system has time to perform the first "paint" callback
21:11:35  *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd []
21:12:48  <LordAro> Rubidium: it's more of the issue that it's publicly available - ludde, if he did RE it, never published anything until it at least looked reasonably clean
21:14:09  <Rubidium> I think the point is more that AFAIK ludde claims that at the time he began openttd the things he did were legal in his country
21:14:48  <Rubidium> I can't tell what the laws were in his country, I was merely given the source code under GPL v2 long after whatever he did had taken place
21:15:49  <peter1139>
21:15:51  <peter1139> Heh
21:16:33  <peter1139> So anyway, acting like it's some secret or that "nobody knows" is pretty silly.
21:17:13  <andythenorth> bloody docks
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21:17:56  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you remember correctly ;)
21:21:07  <LordAro> TrueBrain: you are the oldest one still around, iirc :p
21:21:39  <peter1139> Oldest or longest?
21:21:49  <peter1139> Pretty sure I'm older, not to mention others :-)
21:22:02  <andythenorth> also bloody station newgrfs and their flickering cargo sprites
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21:22:22  <TrueBrain> awh, peter is jealous of my age
21:22:22  <planetmaker> he's for sure not the oldest ;)
21:22:23  <TrueBrain> how cute
21:22:26  <Xaroth|Work> I was tempted to insert a witty joke there, but then I realised that he has no issue what-so-ever to kick me :P
21:22:35  <peter1139> TrueBrain, yeah, I wish I was young again ;(
21:22:46  <TrueBrain> @kick Xaroth|Work that is correct
21:22:49  <TrueBrain> Awh!
21:22:51  <TrueBrain> @whoami
21:22:51  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: I don't recognize you.
21:22:53  <TrueBrain> dammit
21:22:56  <TrueBrain> llucky you
21:22:58  <planetmaker> FAIL :P
21:22:59  <Xaroth|Work> :D
21:23:13  <LordAro> :D
21:23:28  <Xaroth|Work> now he's busy re-authing himself (and his new hostmask) so he can kick me.
21:23:47  <planetmaker> yup
21:24:01  <TrueBrain> you would be surprised
21:24:01  <LordAro> tbh, i fully expect myself to be kicked instead
21:24:02  <frosch123> @op Xaroth|Work
21:24:05  *** mode/#openttd [+o Xaroth|Work] by DorpsGek
21:24:15  <planetmaker> :D
21:24:24  <frosch123> just to make it a litter interesting :)
21:24:32  <Xaroth|Work> oh how tempting
21:24:44  <Xaroth|Work> but I'm not that mean *eyes TrueBrain*
21:24:56  <planetmaker> well-tamed
21:25:05  <frosch123> well, it's kind of a western duel :p
21:25:14  <planetmaker> :P
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21:26:45  *** mode/#openttd [-o Xaroth|Work] by Xaroth|Work
21:26:49  <TrueBrain> such a pussy
21:27:07  <TrueBrain> (always insult AFTER the privs have dropped)
21:27:15  <Xaroth|Work> I had expected nothing less
21:27:45  <Xaroth|Work> but it was not like I could win that one :P
21:28:40  <frosch123> carpe diem :)
21:33:16  <LordAro> intriguing. as a result of my apparent memory errors, instead of displaying "...[x001]" it displays "...[x!"
21:33:26  <planetmaker> g'night
21:33:29  <Xaroth|Work> nn pm
21:33:44  <LordAro> however! if i run it with valgrind, or any of clang's memory or address sanitizers, it displays fine
21:33:58  <peter1139> You have memory errors?
21:34:05  <peter1139> And you are still using that memory?
21:34:19  <LordAro> as far as we can tell, no
21:34:25  <LordAro> happens on all computers
21:34:32  <peter1139> Uh...
21:35:17  <LordAro> feel free to debug yourself:
21:35:23  <LordAro> we're having no luck
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21:44:16  <TrueBrain> are you debugging an overly eager optimizer? :D
21:44:38  <LordAro> at this point, possibly
21:44:55  <Pulec> i could never understand where is old type of acceleration default in settings
21:44:56  <LordAro> but no optimisations are turned on
21:45:13  <TrueBrain> there is no such thing LordAro :P
21:45:20  <frosch123> LordAro: found the bug, what do i get?
21:45:20  <LordAro> :p
21:45:25  <TrueBrain> but tracing issues is fuuuunnnnnnn :D
21:45:30  <LordAro> frosch123: really?
21:45:44  <LordAro> i would honestly attempt to buy you cake
21:46:02  <frosch123> you are using silly macros which don't tell what they do, and you forgot what they do
21:46:07  <frosch123> check xalloc
21:46:33  <frosch123> and then wonder what sizeof(strlen(theitem->name) + 7 + 1) is :p
21:47:10  <LordAro> ah.
21:47:20  <frosch123> rule number 37: never trust stuff that starts with x or so
21:47:40  <LordAro> ah. so much ah.
21:47:47  <peter1139> malloc
21:47:49  <peter1139> or heck, asprintf
21:47:51  <Xaroth|Work> frosch123: you might want to send him your address, for said cake :P
21:47:58  <peter1139> if it's good enough for openbsd...
21:48:05  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
21:48:19  <TrueBrain> LordAro, when did you start working on OpenSSL? *poor-joke-is-poor*
21:48:31  <LordAro> i didn't write these functions!
21:48:40  <TrueBrain> *trolllsssssss*
21:48:41  <Xaroth|Work> that's what she said
21:48:48  <LordAro> even if i was using them incorrectly!
21:49:38  <LordAro> frosch123: seriously, i could at least send you money or something :)
21:49:52  <frosch123> who needs money?
21:49:57  <SpComb> valgrind ./openttd
21:50:00  <TrueBrain> wow, you really are going to send him 15,000 dollar?
21:50:04  <TrueBrain> impressive ;)
21:50:08  <Xaroth|Work> gheh
21:50:18  <Xaroth|Work> * TrueBrain is now known as TrollBrain
21:50:19  <LordAro> TrueBrain: just enough for a cake :p
21:50:25  <frosch123> TrueBrain: "dollar" is dangerous, there are lots of dollars
21:50:32  <TrueBrain> hmm ... cake .....
21:51:20  <Eddi|zuHause> the cake is a lie
21:51:29  <peter1139> Anyone done connection pooling in C#?
21:51:38  <TrueBrain> Anyone done C#?
21:51:41  <peter1139> Yeah, me.
21:51:43  <TrueBrain> *gets his shotgun*
21:52:03  * Eddi|zuHause admits to using C# for about half a year, before i discovered python
21:52:10  <Xaroth|Work> I've briefly done C#.. but then TrueBrain told me about python
21:52:25  <TrueBrain> you sure it was "told"?
21:52:29  <TrueBrain> that sounds too kind
21:52:36  <glx> with a gun maybe ;)
21:52:41  <SpComb> peter1139: /* connection_close(c); */
21:52:48  <peter1139> Har
21:53:14  <frosch123> hmm, on what coding subject are c# and python considered alternatives?
21:53:23  <Xaroth|Work> frosch123: web
21:53:40  <frosch123> c# does web stuff these days?
21:53:45  <Xaroth|Work> ?
21:53:55  <Xaroth|Work> but I grew tired of ui crap
21:53:58  <Xaroth|Work> and wanted to do web
21:54:03  <Eddi|zuHause> the project i used C# on was "webservices"
21:54:45  <SpComb> while (select(...) < 0 && errno == ENFILE) { close(random() * FD_SETSIZE / RAND_MAX); }
21:55:15  <peter1139> c# did web stuff from the beginning.
21:55:23  <peter1139> WebForms was pretty shitty mind you.
21:55:33  <Xaroth|Work> they improved it?
21:56:42  <peter1139> Replaced. MVC with Razor syntax is pretty normal now.
21:57:20  <SpComb> eegh, too tired already
21:57:30  <SpComb> while (accept(...) < 0 && errno == ENFILE) { close(random() * FD_SETSIZE / RAND_MAX); }
21:58:37  <frosch123> "while (still_not_crashed()) crash();" ?
21:58:48  <SpComb> why would that crash
21:59:36  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: is that from the windows source code?
21:59:51  <Xaroth|Work> Eddi|zuHause: it looks like it
22:00:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember a line like this
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22:13:13  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, i think it was some "funny picture" 15 years ago with some fake win source code
22:13:48  <Eddi|zuHause> it was a text file when i saw it
22:14:00  <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, 15-ish years ago
22:14:24  <Eddi|zuHause> although i've seen various versions, some shorter and some longer. and varying version numbers
22:14:26  <frosch123> yeah, quite possible that "funny pictures" were "funny textfiles" 15 years ago :)
22:16:16  <frosch123> night
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