Log for #openttd on 29th April 2014:
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00:43:35  <grepwood> What part of the code deals in game config?
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01:04:40  <supermop> looks like it will be too cloudy to see the eclipse....
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02:17:38  <Flygon> supermop: VICTOOOOORIA. FU... NK YEAH.
02:17:50  <Flygon> Cloudy every day yeah!
02:19:08  <grepwood> Flygon let's swap places
02:19:37  <Flygon> You're on Virgin Cable, it rains even MORE there
02:19:41  <Flygon> So, no. D:
02:19:50  <grepwood> hey I thought you like rain
02:20:25  <Flygon> I'd rather just take my slightly less frequent rain, occassional snow, and Comeng trains and run with them D:
02:23:17  <grepwood> run with trains? but they're always going to outrun you :S
02:24:47  <Flygon> grepwood: Newport signal failure
02:25:51  <supermop> decent coffee here
02:25:55  * grepwood is unaffected
02:29:51  <Flygon> Only decent? D:
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02:46:20  <supermop> i am guessing cc mask cannot be antialiased for 32bpp?
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06:39:27  <supermop> you know what would be better than pipelines in ottd?
06:39:31  <supermop> log flumes
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06:45:32  <planetmaker> moin
06:46:33  <planetmaker> supermop, masks are 32bpp, so anti-aliasing them would not do what you expect it to do
06:46:43  <planetmaker> err... masks are 8bpp
06:50:07  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: what's a flume?
06:55:23  <supermop> chute for water to flow in
06:55:58  <V453000> just use wetrails supermop :D
06:56:14  <supermop> also adapted into an amusement part ride, whereby one rides in a fiberglass log through the chute
06:56:40  <supermop> i want cargo decay to be based on how fun the ride was V453000
06:56:48  <V453000> lol
06:56:49  <supermop> anyway
06:56:50  <V453000> njoy
06:57:10  <supermop> signals are hard
06:57:42  <supermop> i mean representing the mechanics of an ottd signal in a little picture of a signal
06:58:51  <supermop> how does one represent, abstractly, that a signal does x, especially without a distant aspect
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06:59:15  <supermop> you have to be somewhat arbitrary about it
06:59:30  <supermop> and hope that the user just figures it out
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07:19:12  <supermop> ok time for a test grf i guess
07:19:38  <supermop> so i have a bunch of individual 256x256 32bpp pngs
07:20:11  <supermop> can i use NML to make a baseset out of those, should i composite them into a sprite sheet first?
07:20:50  <planetmaker> that depends
07:20:50  <supermop> most of them only need to be 128x256
07:21:07  <supermop> rest is just blue
07:21:25  <planetmaker> 32bpp uses transparency, not blue
07:21:34  <supermop> oops
07:21:46  <planetmaker> it's 32bpp :) blue would be blue
07:22:00  <supermop> ok well blue is just a layer i can turn off in the vector file and make more pngs!
07:22:26  <planetmaker> as to your question: using many separate files, one per sprite surely works
07:22:36  <V453000> o, I can just have alpha without wtfblue with 32bpp?
07:22:37  <V453000> great
07:23:08  <planetmaker> so it might be the same amount of work now to code it with all files separate as combining them in a sprite sheet
07:23:18  <planetmaker> but if you update, separate files might come in more handy, supermop
07:23:27  <planetmaker> V453000, 32bpp is just that, no frills, no surprises
07:23:32  <supermop> i want to update a lot
07:23:50  <supermop> because these graphics are ugly, just a proof of concept
07:23:56  <planetmaker> only if you want company colour or palette animation (like water), then you need to define *additionally* 8bpp masks
07:24:13  <planetmaker> supermop, just FYI: zbase uses single files
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07:24:32  <supermop> can i make a base set without cc? at least to start with?
07:24:59  <planetmaker> in principle yes
07:25:32  <planetmaker> just like zbase has no animated water
07:25:40  <Eearslya_> So, question..I wanna get involved in OTTD coding, but the To-Do List page is..horribly out of date. Is there a more up-to-date page or where could I start?
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07:25:59  <supermop> i've only drawn land slopes, rivers, canals, rapids, so far
07:26:30  <supermop> and i want to quickly test it to see if the tiles look nice together
07:26:34  <planetmaker> supermop, do you really *draw*? Or render?
07:26:46  <supermop> drawing, in illustrator
07:26:47  <planetmaker> anyhow, as landscape getting-started, you might look at the code of pota-ghat
07:27:08  <supermop>
07:27:12  <planetmaker>
07:27:55  <planetmaker> Eearslya, seems we don't exactly have a more up to date list of nice-to-have things. But of course our bug tracker lists also a lot of bugs which also might be nice targets to tackle
07:27:59  <supermop> is that a base set or landscape grf
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07:28:09  <planetmaker> supermop, it's a landscape newgrf
07:28:27  <planetmaker> but for landscape, the difference between base set and newgrf is marginal
07:28:39  <supermop> but the same code would work for a base set?
07:28:43  <supermop> ah ok
07:28:58  <planetmaker> not 1:1, but a single search and replace would do
07:43:54  <planetmaker> well, maybe not single. But the effort to change is marginal, usually
07:44:19  <supermop> any faster way to determine what sprite gets which number on this list?
07:44:46  <supermop> or just look at what order they appear in a sprite sheet?
07:50:34  <V453000> :]
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10:17:58  <peter1139> "Booting Ubuntu with systemd: Now in Utopic" ... on sigh :p
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10:26:01  <Wolf01> hi hi
10:27:09  <peter1139> HELLO THERE WOLF01
10:27:42  <peter1139> MODE 7 :D
10:28:20  <Sacro> ah mode 7
10:28:54  <peter1139> Acorn, not Nintendo.
10:29:04  <Wolf01> now you need just a green phosphor monitor
10:29:34  <peter1139>
10:29:37  <peter1139> Completely wrong :-(
10:29:51  <peter1139> Well, sort of.
10:30:17  <peter1139> Hmm, of course, it was interlaced which makes conversion fun.
10:33:14  <peter1139> Ooh, gotta love the [] symbols :D
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10:39:33  <planetmaker> Taede, Re FS#5996: The usual, and posix-compliant behaviour is to stay silent, if everything is fine. If your command was wrong, you'd get an error message
10:39:43  <planetmaker> and you surely know what commands you sent
10:40:57  <peter1139> POSIX-compliant OpenTTD console!
10:43:28  <planetmaker> granted, long way there :)
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10:58:49  <peter1139> Readline and tab-completion? :p
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11:01:52  <Rubidium> I doubt the console will ever be posix compliant
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11:20:05  <grepwood> What part of the code deals in game config?
11:23:47  <Samu> hey st2
11:24:25  <Samu> xT2: hey
11:29:39  <Rubidium> grepwood: I'd guess most if it has setting or config in the file name
11:29:54  <Rubidium> (latter for game script / AI configuration)
11:29:58  <Samu> i am trying to build a small but "expert" type of rail network that permits fast trains to overtake slow trains using only two lines that can be used in either direction, kinda like I currently do, but without the limitation of a maximum of 3 trains. If anyone wants to help, pls PM
11:33:41  <V453000> "expert" usually means not mixing train speeds :P
11:33:58  <Samu> "smart" then
11:34:19  <V453000> I dont think creating pointless issues is smart :)
11:34:43  <Samu> I can do the first part fine, but 3 trains are the limit
11:35:02  <Samu> 4 trains creates the possibility of them blocking each other
11:35:34  <SylvieLorxu> Probably a silly question, but if I put an aircraft in the hangar, do I still have any costs involved with it such as the yearly running costs?
11:37:20  <grepwood> Rubidium, exactly
11:37:36  <grepwood> I'm asking what part of the source code deals with reading those from the file
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11:39:50  <Samu> train 1 direction >> X-junction << train 2 direction
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11:40:06  <Samu> train 3 direction >> X-junction == free path
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11:40:51  <Samu> 3 moves first, then 1 or 2 advances and takes the other line
11:41:02  <Samu> then the last one goes straight
11:41:40  <LordAro> grepwood: "if it has setting or config in the file name"
11:43:01  <Samu> if there's a train 4 where the free path is and is heading to X-junction, creates a deadlock
11:43:02  <grepwood> ah
11:43:11  <Samu> how do I avoid this?
11:46:17  <peter1139> Don't lay signals like that.
11:46:55  <peter1139> Remember the safe-waiting-point principle.
11:47:47  <Samu> sorry, a small mistake in my explanation
11:48:03  <Samu> 3 moves first, 2 moves next, because 1 can't go to where 3 is headed to
11:48:18  <Samu> and lastly, 1 moves last, and straight
11:49:10  <Samu> i can show you in-game
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11:50:16  <Samu> i need a mix of entry signals with path signals, but i'm noob with entry signals
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11:51:36  <Samu> path signal must reserve in advance so that it triggers the entry signal's red far away on the other side
11:51:56  <Samu> i just dont know how to build this
11:52:17  <V453000> path signals dont Really react to entry signals
11:52:50  <Samu> so i need entry-exit signals
11:53:18  <V453000> if you want any kind of logic, yes
11:54:06  <Jomann> anyone knows how to run openttd in dosbox? because my Linux version freezes every now and then. Doesn't matter what distro.
11:54:57  <V453000> why would you run openttd in dospox :d
11:54:58  <V453000> bv
11:56:12  <Jomann> as explained above. In linux openttd freezes whole system from time to time. it may has to do with sound, but not sure.
11:56:23  <peter1139> Does OpenTTD even compile for DOS?
11:57:08  <Jomann> not sure
11:57:10  <peter1139> There's no automatic DOS build, anyway.
11:57:10  <V453000> I believe for many people openttd works just fine under linux
11:57:21  <Jomann> or how to enable debug, maybe I can read debug log after next crash?
11:57:32  <Jomann> yeah sure, for me too. Except this annoying freeze
11:57:42  <peter1139> Well, does it freeze or crash?
11:58:00  <peter1139> Check the command line options to enable debugging.
11:58:04  <Jomann> it freezes whole system. Can't do anything, only solution is reset
12:06:09  <Samu> X-junction // train 1 direction >> X-junction << train 2 direction // X-junction == free path 2
12:06:19  <Samu> -junction // train 3 direction >> X-junction == free path 1       == X-junction == free path 3
12:06:40  <Samu> sorry, i need help
12:07:21  <Samu> path 2 and 3 signals should turn red when train 3 crosses the 2nd X-junction
12:07:52  <LordAro> Jomann: either way, linux is a lot better supported than dos
12:08:45  <Samu> i need pre-signals somewhere
12:09:04  <peter1139> No you don't. You can't have bidirectional lines working like that.
12:09:16  <LordAro> i think only 1 or 2 of the devs (fonsinchen?) use windows for normal development
12:09:37  <Jomann> yeah I Know. But it is annoying with those crashes :(
12:10:13  <LordAro> if it's actually crashing, upload the crash reports somewhere
12:10:18  <Samu> doesn't pre-signals work bi-directionaly?
12:10:20  <peter1139> Stick to one-way lines with no X-junctions, or expand in parallel and have at least one set of one-way lines.
12:10:40  <LordAro> if it's freezing, that's a little more difficult - trying running with debugging turned on
12:10:48  <Jomann> LordAro,  it freezes whole system. I just update system and then start openttd with debug on. Maybe I have debug log after reset
12:11:08  <peter1139> debug output doesn't write to a file, so make sure you can see it.
12:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> bidirectional lines only work properly with path signals
12:11:33  <Eddi|zuHause> not with presignals
12:11:36  <Jomann> how, when it freezes? :) Okay maybe window mode and terminal beneeth
12:12:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Jomann: freezes are usually device drivers going wrong. or hardware problems
12:13:30  <peter1139> Yup, it's not going to be caused by anything OpenTTD does.
12:13:37  <Jomann> hm. Thats why I thought some problem with pulseaudio. Because amarok and qmmp freeze too after some time. luckily not whole system
12:13:41  <peter1139> Or rather, not caused by OpenTTD misbehaving.
12:14:17  <peter1139> Heh, wait, is it "completely frozen" because you're running in full-screen mode and don't know who to switch it out?
12:14:32  <peter1139> (Even so, PA shouldn't freeze)
12:15:01  <Jomann> no it was always windowed mode with free mouse
12:15:39  <peter1139> Alright.
12:16:38  <Samu> I can build entry signals on both ways in 1 line, but you say it doesn't work? I don't understand
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12:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: ypu can't filter out which exit signal to react on
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12:40:44  <peter1139>
12:45:48  <Samu> signal, signal, junction, signal, signal - train must be minimum 3 tiles, or is it 4? the read end must trigger the first signal
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12:49:10  <V453000> seriously the fact that you dont take a screenshot to post it makes me wtf :D
12:49:18  <peter1139> :-)
12:49:24  <V453000> [wtf is a verb now]
12:50:48  <Samu>
12:51:10  <V453000> yeah that doesnt really make much sense
12:51:38  <peter1139> You're still trying, even after people said it can't be done? :p
12:51:48  <Samu> yeah, im stuborn
12:51:59  <Samu> if it doesn't work one way, it could work some other way
12:53:13  <V453000> perhaps learn how signals work first, there is a lot of helpful people around openttdcoop servers if you need assistance
12:55:01  <Samu> hmm nop, this didn't work t.t
12:55:07  <Samu> ok, gonna search that server
12:55:58  <Samu> newgrf mismatch
13:01:41  <Godde> @quickstart
13:01:45  <Godde> :(
13:01:50  <Godde> wrong channel :D
13:01:55  <Xaroth|Work> failwhale
13:02:40  <Godde> Btw are you supposed to be able to resize the game window on linux?
13:02:55  <Godde> I can resize the window, but the game resolution itself doesn't change
13:07:46  <peter1139> Yes, you can resize the window on Linux.
13:07:48  <Samu> there's no one in there to help
13:08:12  <Godde> hmm
13:16:38  <V453000> Samu: perhaps constructing something and asking others if they know how to solve it is more constructive than just asking in words :D
13:17:15  <planetmaker> V453000, he'd build what he showed in the screenshot... presumably
13:17:39  <planetmaker> probably autoclean would catch that company rather soon
13:18:06  <Samu> are you there in the opencoop game?
13:18:10  <Samu> i'm returning then
13:18:28  <planetmaker> Not today. I only have the server logs ;)
13:18:30  <planetmaker> and chat logs
13:18:46  <planetmaker> but maybe V453000 does have time
13:39:06  <supermop> night
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14:12:01  <Eddi|zuHause> <Godde> I can resize the window, but the game resolution itself doesn't change <-- i've had that issue when resizing both directions at once. if i only resize one direction, it works
14:12:10  <Godde> Hmm
14:12:19  <Godde> It seems to work when compiled from source
14:12:26  <Godde> Problem is gone for now atleast
14:12:39  <Eddi|zuHause> it's an SDL issue
14:12:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i think someone might have adressed it, but i can't remember
14:13:18  <planetmaker> yup, that's SDL
14:15:51  <Eddi|zuHause>
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14:39:05  <peter1139> eh
14:39:07  <peter1139> +H
14:39:14  <peter1139> Gnome's lock screen is painfully stupid.
14:39:22  <peter1139> Half the time it won't actually blank all my screens...
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15:06:20  <SylvieLorxu> Eddi|zuHause: I... I... I don't even...
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15:45:17  <SylvieLorxu> Is there a way to disable lifestock and have farms only generate grain? I know it's "just a game" but it's just too gruesome to transport lifestock to a factory >_>
15:45:30  <SylvieLorxu> (OpenTTD 1.1.4)
15:48:27  <SylvieLorxu> (For now I'm just commiting economical suicide and only adding a grain hopper to the train, but yeah)
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15:51:29  <Eddi|zuHause> make a newgrf
15:52:12  <Eddi|zuHause> although it needs to be an "oldgrf" to be compatible with 1.1, you should really update to 1.4
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15:55:43  <SylvieLorxu> I'll go and look into what this whole newgrf stuff is
15:55:47  <SylvieLorxu> Thanks
15:56:11  <Alberth> change climate, in subtropical you have maize and wheat
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15:56:43  <Alberth> in toy land you only have a toy factory :)
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16:06:03  <peter1139> ps aux
16:06:06  <peter1139> Errrr
16:08:06  <planetmaker> g'evening
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16:09:40  <SylvieLorxu> Thanks, Alberth
16:10:09  <planetmaker> play with FIRS. Totally different NewGRFs :P
16:10:40  <planetmaker> But update to 1.4 before that - you will find most modern NewGRFs to not work anymore on versions as old as 1.1
16:11:29  <Superuser> lol, classic SylvieLorxu
16:11:34  <Superuser> never thought I'd see you in here.
16:11:46  <SylvieLorxu> Superuser: Oh, hey, it's you
16:11:47  <SylvieLorxu> Heh
16:12:14  <SylvieLorxu> planetmaker: It's the version that's in the Trisquel repos and I'm lazy, but yeah, I probably should...
16:13:54  <Superuser> it's *very* old, it also lacks the new settings screen which makes it actually tolerable to use (among other things)
16:14:32  <Superuser> the nice thing is that ottd has a continuous integration system that builds linux packages *and* static builds that you can take anywhere and they will just work
16:14:32  <SylvieLorxu> I keep forgetting what Trisquel 6 is based on
16:14:41  <SylvieLorxu> It's the previous Ubuntu LTS
16:14:48  <planetmaker> SylvieLorxu, it's >~ 3 years old
16:14:59  <SylvieLorxu> Oh, that bad?
16:15:01  <Superuser> you can also download the nightly, though 1.4.0 was literally just released
16:15:13  <planetmaker> at least the OpenTTD they ship
16:15:22  <Superuser> yeah, huge huge improvements have taken place since then, including my ~3300 string translation
16:15:29  <planetmaker> :)
16:16:21  * SylvieLorxu grabs the 32 bit Precise package
16:16:26  <SylvieLorxu> I think that's the one I need
16:17:18  <planetmaker> SylvieLorxu, grab the one from our website :)
16:17:30  <planetmaker>
16:17:30  <SylvieLorxu> I am ^^
16:17:34  <planetmaker> ah
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16:21:33  <LordAro> qauk
16:21:40  <SylvieLorxu> I wonder what's new, should look up a changelog
16:21:55  <planetmaker> lots of things :)
16:22:05  <planetmaker> LordAro, wrong spelling ;) quak
16:22:18  * Alberth waves
16:22:29  <LordAro> planetmaker: mostly intentional :p
16:22:31  <frosch123> hai :)
16:22:55  <LordAro> SylvieLorxu:
16:24:35  <SylvieLorxu> LordAro: Thanks!
16:26:44  <SylvieLorxu> Okay, a whole lot changed
16:27:31  <Superuser> SylvieLorxu: also seeing as you're just getting started and have a half-decent rig, I'd highly recommend zBase
16:28:10  <Superuser> it's a 32-bit graphics pack, you can get it from in game. You use nouveau but that should not be an issue, only the card's memory counts for this as it's litelly a bunch of sprites
16:28:22  <SylvieLorxu> Superuser: I'm not on my desktop :P
16:28:26  <Superuser> and we have the same graphics card so I can vouch for it working very well :)
16:28:28  <Superuser> oh... err ok
16:28:39  <peter1139> I can vouch for zBase looking like shit compare to original.
16:29:00  * SylvieLorxu is on the X60s, with integrated Intel graphics, yay!
16:29:06  <Superuser> peter1139: I disagree, and I grew up on the original AND 8bit for ottd
16:29:28  <Superuser> as soon as I got a good pc (my previous one was a low end from 2002) I replaced it zbase and never looked back
16:29:40  <Superuser> but art is subjective :)
16:31:36  * Alberth is glad it is
16:31:54  <planetmaker> :)
16:34:30  <SylvieLorxu> OpenTTD 1.4.0 is all laggy on the title screen :(
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16:37:06  <Superuser> try erasing your config
16:37:14  <Superuser> rm -rf ~/.openttd
16:38:30  <Alberth> ieks
16:38:49  <planetmaker> ehm, no!
16:38:51  <Alberth> rm ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg     perhaps
16:39:09  <planetmaker> ^
16:40:06  <planetmaker> Superuser, please be very careful what you advise. You just recommended to delete all screenshots, savegames, newgrfs, AIs and whatever he might have gathered or produced with openttd
16:41:19  <Superuser> fair point
16:41:51  <Superuser> though I do have a strange habit of doing clean installs for everything
16:42:10  <Alberth> Superuser: I'd reformat the C: drive every time if I were you
16:43:07  <Alberth> or  rm -rf /   in unix terms :)
16:43:29  <planetmaker> rm -rf /* :P
16:44:05  <Alberth> so much for "force"  :p
16:45:45  <SylvieLorxu> --no-preserve-root is necessary
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16:47:14  <Superuser> not with /*
16:48:12  <Alberth> dd < /dev/zero > /dev/sda     will work too :p
16:48:30  <LordAro> dd < /dev/urandom > /dev/sda :p
16:49:07  <LordAro> or /dev/random, for that cryptographically secure deletion :p
16:49:30  <Alberth> I think you'll run out of random bits very fast :)
16:54:19  <Eddi|zuHause> if you use /dev/random you're not done before the police arrives
16:54:39  <Eddi|zuHause> /dev/urandom is faster
16:55:03  <Godde> But then you can't be completely sure noone is monitoring your deletion D:
16:56:17  <Eddi|zuHause> you could also overwrite the drive encryption key (and its backup)
16:59:16  <Alberth> just buy a new drive, you never know what the old bits were used for :p
16:59:50  <planetmaker> iew. Used bits? I want fresh bits on my new drive!
17:00:10  <planetmaker> Not the rotten ones. I have them already myself here in some corner
17:00:36  <Eddi|zuHause> if your bitburger is rotten then you did something wrong
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17:33:12  <SylvieLorxu> It's still slow by the way, I think that it's purely because the title screen of 1.4.0 displays WAY more busses/etc. than the one in 1.1.4
17:35:35  <planetmaker> you could try to change in your ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg one setting for the memory reserved for graphics:
17:35:40  <planetmaker> sprite_cache_size_px = 512
17:35:46  <planetmaker> instead of the other value you might have
17:35:49  <planetmaker> maybe it helps
17:36:22  <planetmaker> if you have the necessary ram
17:37:06  <SylvieLorxu> I have 3GB so I assume it'd work
17:37:44  <Superuser> yeah if it's lagging on that screen, you prob don't want to run zBase...
17:37:55  <Superuser> definitely give it a go on desktop though if you like the game ^^
17:37:58  <SylvieLorxu> A bit more initial loading delay, but after that, seems way better
17:38:06  <Superuser> also the title screen games are very unrealistic
17:38:13  <Superuser> in a real game, it's not nearly as hectic
17:43:44  <Eddi|zuHause> lag on the title screen is rarely because there's so much going on
17:44:02  <Eddi|zuHause> because it's not actually that much compared to a real game on a large map
17:45:10  <SylvieLorxu> Eddi|zuHause: It's the most apparent difference between the 1.1.4 title screen (which had no issues) and the 1.4.0 one, and planetmaker's tip did seem to help
17:45:26  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26540 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-04-29 17:45:18 UTC)
17:45:27  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:28  <DorpsGek> basque - 9 changes by laxkax
17:45:29  <DorpsGek> catalan - 10 changes by juanjo
17:45:30  <DorpsGek> italian - 12 changes by lorenzodv
17:45:53  <Eddi|zuHause> SylvieLorxu: actually the difference that makes the difference here is the new zoom modes and 32bpp graphics
17:46:17  <Eddi|zuHause> SylvieLorxu: there are a loooot of differences under the hood
17:47:56  <SylvieLorxu> Eddi|zuHause: Hmm... Well, the tip seems to work so far,  but what should I look for if I have further issues?
17:48:40  <Eddi|zuHause> let's not worry about that until you have actual issues :p
17:49:05  <SylvieLorxu> Fair enough
17:49:45  <SylvieLorxu> Oh yeah, it also asks me to update the base graphics set because it's missing a number of sprites :(
17:50:18  <SylvieLorxu> Oh, I see
17:50:24  <SylvieLorxu> Online content manager has it
17:50:33  <SylvieLorxu> Still weird that I have to do that after a new install :x
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17:55:31  <Eddi|zuHause> well it reuses the files you had from your previous install
17:55:42  <Eddi|zuHause> the main program does not include any graphics
17:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it will download some if you don't have any, but if you have old ones, it doesn't automatically update
17:56:27  <Superuser> which is why I recommended wiping .openttd
17:56:49  <SylvieLorxu> Ah
17:57:12  <Superuser> anyway ottd is the lightest game ever
17:57:18  <Superuser> I'd give up playing games on that laptop altogether
17:57:26  <SylvieLorxu> (It's so difficult to find out the license of stuff...)
17:57:28  <Superuser> (roguelikes don't map to laptop controls so even those are out of the question)
17:57:31  <SylvieLorxu> Superuser: Nethack is lighter
17:57:48  <Superuser> but the controls don't work =p
17:57:53  <Superuser> you need a numpad
17:57:58  <SylvieLorxu> Not really
17:58:00  <Superuser> unless you like remapping lots of keys
17:58:16  <SylvieLorxu> I just need to switch back to qwerty for Nethack but meh...
17:58:32  <SylvieLorxu> Can't be bothered
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18:09:19  <Eddi|zuHause> do not wipe .openttd
18:09:32  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not worth the trouble
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18:19:02  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r26541 /branches/1.4 (16 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-29 18:18:52 UTC)
18:19:03  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
18:19:04  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Prevent comparing to NULL when strndup could not allocate memory (r26476)
18:19:05  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Potentially undefined shifts in NewGRF code (r26475)
18:19:06  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Make sure there is no uninitialised sprite data (r26473)
18:19:07  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...)
18:21:57  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26542 /branches/1.4 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-29 18:21:49 UTC)
18:21:58  <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
18:21:59  <DorpsGek> - Change: Remove demand calculation based on tiles (r26484)
18:22:00  <DorpsGek> - Fix: Allow single-vehicle consists to station-refit in a meaningful way (r26483)
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18:35:11  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26543 /branches/1.4 (5 files in 5 dirs) (2014-04-29 18:35:01 UTC)
18:35:12  <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
18:35:13  <DorpsGek> - Fix: Buffer overruns in handling of symbolic links inside tars (r26514)
18:35:14  <DorpsGek> - Fix: Incorrect usage of strecpy (r26505, r26485)
18:35:15  <DorpsGek> - Fix: Reading console input on dedicated server relied on unspecified behaviour (r26496)
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18:41:29  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r26544 /branches/1.4 (27 files in 11 dirs) (2014-04-29 18:41:19 UTC)
18:41:30  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
18:41:31  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: [Windows] Crash when the operating system performs the "paint" callback during window creation [FS#5994] (r26539, r26538)
18:41:32  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: OpenBSD compilation [FS#5992] (r26523)
18:41:33  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: prevent from ever reading huge (or negative) amounts of data in strgen (r26521)
18:41:34  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...)
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19:09:57  <Xaroth|Work> he's at it again
19:11:09  <Phreeze> cya Bayern
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19:36:27  <Eddi|zuHause> who cares?
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19:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> this keeps getting better
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19:41:23  * sylvieL slowly claps
19:41:27  *** sylvieL is now known as SylvieLorxu
19:41:59  <frosch123> does that change your nick?
19:42:13  <SylvieLorxu> Haha, no
19:42:18  <Eddi|zuHause> clap on clap off?
19:42:30  <SylvieLorxu> I dc'd, and XChat doesn't automatically change it back to my preferred nick
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19:43:17  <Eddi|zuHause> you can probably script that
19:44:34  <andythenorth> bonsoir
19:46:27  <Eddi|zuHause> bien sur
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19:58:56  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: having auto-filled a timetable, how do I force the vehicle separation?
19:59:22  <frosch123> ctrl+starttime
19:59:27  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ctrl+click on "start date", then each ship will wait at its first order
19:59:43  <andythenorth> ta
20:00:28  <Eddi|zuHause> at least with ships you'll have no problems with overtaking and stuff
20:01:28  <Eddi|zuHause> suggestion for airplanes: an airplane will not attempt to land (stay in waiting loop) until its "travel time" has run out
20:02:04  <Eddi|zuHause> (in turn means "wait time" has to include taxiing)
20:03:22  <Eddi|zuHause> (or plane timetables need two separate timings for travelling)
20:05:32  <Samu> balancing aircraft?
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20:08:59  <Samu> turn on inflation
20:09:09  <Phreeze> inflation sucks
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20:09:24  <Samu> turn on normal breakdowns
20:09:25  <Phreeze> does inflation include cargo payment  ?
20:09:33  <Samu> yes
20:09:43  <Phreeze> so why do i make less and less profit ? :)
20:09:53  <Phreeze> i had a game with 50 years inflation
20:10:01  <Phreeze> an engine cost me 1.4million eur xD
20:10:13  <Samu> that should balance aircraft
20:10:21  <Samu> can't mass em
20:11:06  <Eddi|zuHause> inflation for income is lower than for expenses
20:11:10  <Samu> problem with inflation is who joins later in the game
20:11:54  <Eddi|zuHause> after 170 years of inflation, you need about 5 times the income
20:12:28  <Phreeze> which is weird, cause stuff gets more expensive cause of industries etc
20:12:28  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (1.ß4/1.03)**170
20:12:28  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
20:12:35  <Samu> how does the loan work with inflation?
20:12:35  <Phreeze> so people must pay more for the train
20:12:52  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (1.04/1.03)**170
20:12:52  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 5.16820201339
20:13:09  <Samu> the permissable max loan on year 170?
20:13:10  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: max loan gets increased
20:13:14  <Phreeze> when inflation reaches "high" amounts, you loan is long payed off ;)
20:13:27  <Phreeze> isnt it fixed  ??
20:13:32  <Phreeze> like 1 mio max ?
20:13:35  <Eddi|zuHause> no
20:13:46  <Phreeze> so it will be 2mio
20:13:50  <Phreeze> 400max * 5
20:13:58  <Phreeze> @calc 400*5
20:13:58  <DorpsGek> Phreeze: 2000
20:14:00  <Phreeze> !
20:14:19  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (1.04)**170
20:14:19  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 786.443777924
20:14:27  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the actual inflation
20:14:49  <Eddi|zuHause> so if it was 1Mio at game start, it's 786Mio after 170 years
20:15:22  <Samu> but everything costs 5 times more, right?
20:15:27  <Samu> not good :(
20:15:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
20:16:00  <Eddi|zuHause> especially short routes will become unprofitable
20:16:37  <Samu> is it even possible to start any route by then? 170 years after, starting as a new company?
20:17:01  *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
20:17:01  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not
20:18:19  <Eddi|zuHause> you have to balance out the inflation spread by your network effect, a fresh route will never have any such effect
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20:19:04  <Eddi|zuHause> with your start loan you can buy the same number of vehicles/tracks, but the running costs will eat you up
20:19:52  <Samu> I see
20:24:23  <andythenorth> what causes auto-refit to fail?
20:24:28  <andythenorth> it’s an issue with my grf
20:25:27  <planetmaker> good evening
20:25:38  <andythenorth> auto-refit / auto-replace
20:25:40  <andythenorth> stupid andythenorth
20:26:17  <andythenorth> the auto-replace UI allows me to set up the auto-replace rule
20:26:20  <Eddi|zuHause> "The christian-democratic party (conservatives) are outraged about (social-democratic/labour) former chancellor Schröder attending Putin's birthday party, even though the christian-democratic head of foreign policy was also attending the party"
20:26:24  <andythenorth> but it fails silently in depot
20:26:30  <andythenorth> force-upgrade button fails also
20:27:13  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: wagon-attach callback?
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20:27:47  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: not used
20:27:57  <andythenorth> cargo refits don’t match 100%
20:28:12  <andythenorth> wonder if it’s that
20:28:38  <planetmaker> they better match. iirc
20:29:10  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean cargos or cargo subtypes?
20:29:40  <andythenorth> the currently refitted cargo in the source vehicle is a valid refit for the target (new) vehicle
20:29:58  <andythenorth> but the values for refittable properties are not identical for both types
20:30:16  <Eddi|zuHause> does it work if you separate the vehicles from the chain, and then use the upgrade button?
20:30:27  <Eddi|zuHause> did you set autoreplace for the correct vehicle group?
20:30:44  <andythenorth> no groups
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20:34:37  <andythenorth> it’s specific to some vehicles
20:34:41  <andythenorth> can’t figure out why
20:39:23  <Eddi|zuHause> you use refit callback in weird ways?
20:40:47  <andythenorth> I used refitted capacity
20:41:58  <Eddi|zuHause> that may be a source of trouble, but needs further debugging, which is hard when you canÄt actually interact with it
20:43:54  <Eddi|zuHause> replace happens in 3 basic steps: 1) the new vehicles are purchased, 2) the refit is attempting to copy the original refit, 3) the consist is re-assembled, discarding some wagons if option is set
20:44:13  <Eddi|zuHause> if all these steps succeed, the cargo is transferred to the new consist and the old consist sold
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20:44:40  <andythenorth> I’ve narrowed it down to a specific class of vehicles
20:44:44  <andythenorth> must be a mistake in my code
20:47:55  <Wolf01> 'night all
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20:51:53  <andythenorth> hmm
20:51:55  <andythenorth> a clue
20:52:12  <andythenorth> refrigerated food cars are a valid replacement for pax-only carriages
20:52:14  <andythenorth> apparently
20:52:22  <andythenorth> according to auto-replace UI :P
20:53:04  <planetmaker> :D Bon appetit!
20:53:59  <andythenorth> it’s like a conspiracy-nut plot :P
20:55:44  * andythenorth suspects the default cargo type on the lead vehicle
20:56:28  <andythenorth> thought I fixed that :P
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21:37:09  <andythenorth> bed
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