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Log for #openttd on 4th May 2014:
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02:15:14  <Airwave> I have a station that's becoming somewhat of a bottleneck in my railway system. Any tips on how to improve it?
02:15:19  <Airwave> Screenshot: https://frh.no/station.png
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03:10:14  <Flygon> Airwave: Yes
03:11:48  <Airwave> Flygon: Sweet. It's slightly changed now, by the way.
03:12:06  <Flygon> Airwave: What I'd do is make sure the two incoming and outgoing lines don't conflict
03:12:08  <Airwave> I have another railroad coming in there now. If you refresh the image you'll see it.
03:12:24  <Flygon> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/openttdwtfcloverleaf.png Rudimentary example here (try not to chuckle. I only noticed the way it looks when I finished constructing x.x)
03:12:49  <Flygon> Your two bottlenecks are the immediate station entrances and exits
03:13:07  <Airwave> What does it look like? Mickey Mouse?
03:13:29  <Flygon> Try not to think on it too mch
03:13:36  <Flygon> Point is...
03:13:53  <Flygon> Have three seperate tracks merging together at the entrance... but with a more complex arrangement
03:13:55  <Flygon> Ditto exit
03:13:56  <Airwave> If you tell me what it looks like I can focus.
03:14:12  <Airwave> Is it Mickey?
03:14:32  <Airwave> Which one is the entrance and which is the exit, by the way?
03:14:42  <Flygon> There's two entrance's, two exits
03:14:50  <Flygon> The south end is the entrance, the north end is the exit
03:14:59  <Flygon> Note how the two lines each are all 100% seperate
03:15:01  <Airwave> Ok. Makes sense.
03:15:06  <Flygon> Until the switch directly next to the station
03:15:39  <Airwave> Right.
03:16:05  <Airwave> How would I apply that to my station? I'm having a little trouble visualizing it.
03:17:02  <Flygon> I'm trying to find an archived screenshot, but can't find a good example
03:17:38  <Airwave> Here's the save game, if that would help: https://frh.no/station.sav
03:21:21  <Flygon> Okay, since I can't find any good examples
03:21:23  <Flygon> I got a bad example
03:21:23  <Flygon> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/openttdtracklayoutmassive.png
03:21:30  <Flygon> Pretend it's a one-way station
03:21:35  <Flygon> One side is all entrance tracks
03:21:39  <Flygon> One side is all exit tracks
03:22:00  <Flygon> Note how there is no real issues with bottlenecking track capacity
03:22:12  <Flygon> At least, bar trains entering and exiting at the joints
03:22:16  <Airwave> Right. I see.
03:22:22  <Airwave> I'd have to decimate that nearby lake.
03:22:43  <Flygon> You don't have to build a station that big
03:23:06  <Flygon> In fact
03:23:10  <Flygon> Your station is very easy to refit
03:23:32  <Flygon> Lemme get paint.net out
03:23:42  <Airwave> Ok, cool.
03:23:55  <Airwave> Thanks, by the way. I really appreciate the help.
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03:27:16  <Flygon> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/airwavelayout.png
03:27:45  <Airwave> Ah, I see. That's interesting.
03:27:54  <Airwave> Let me try to change it in-game and post a screenshot.
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03:32:30  <Airwave> I'm not that great with signaling though. Which signals do I put where?
03:34:05  <Airwave> Aaaand I just crashed two trains.
03:34:23  <Airwave> Fortunately I saved first.
03:34:41  <Flygon> I only ever use three signals
03:34:55  <Flygon> One way, block, and that signal that's like a one way one but trains can pass from behind it
03:39:15  <Airwave> But which ones do I put where?
03:39:22  <Airwave> I'm trying to work it out, but just crashing trains.
03:39:34  <Flygon> I'm unsure how to explain it x:
03:42:13  <Flygon> Signalling's one of those things that's very hard to explain unless you can explain it live x.x
03:42:18  <Flygon> And even then, I'm a bad teacher
03:42:27  * Flygon prods #openttd, anyone else around?
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03:45:06  <Airwave> Ok, I've made the changes.
03:46:35  <Airwave> Ok, updated station: https://frh.no/station.png
03:48:44  <Airwave> The problem now is that only one train at a time can be in that whole thing right at the entrance of the station, so they end up waiting longer than they need to.
03:50:05  <Airwave> It's still a definite improvement though.
03:50:32  <Flygon> Remove the grey exit signals and replace all the yellow entry signals with One Way Signals
03:51:05  <Flygon> That'll allow any amount of train as per. track capacity to go through
03:51:15  <Airwave> Ok, I'll give that a try.
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03:51:52  <Flygon> And your exit is still a tad bottlenecked
03:52:44  <Airwave> Yeah, I didn't change that.
03:53:56  <Airwave> That signaling change appears to have done the trick.
03:54:02  <Airwave> No more waiting, yet no crashes so far.
03:54:21  * Flygon nod
03:55:02  <Airwave> Awesome. Thank you very much.
04:00:14  <Airwave> By the way, this is not a problem I'm dealing with now, but it's something I'm wondering nonetheless: If I accidentally bring e.g. a mail car to a station and it starts piling up mail as a result, is there any way to make it stop?
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04:00:47  <Flygon> No
04:00:51  <Airwave> Ok.
04:00:59  <Flygon> And yes
04:01:03  <Flygon> That annoys me to no end too
04:02:41  <Airwave> Yeah.
04:03:59  <Airwave> Well, I'm off to bed I think. Thanks again for the help. It's really much more efficient now.
04:05:21  <Flygon> Sleep well
04:05:27  <Flygon> And, don't worry
04:05:34  <Flygon> Yoou figure it out after 7 years
04:05:54  <Airwave> Hehe
04:06:15  <Airwave> Night.
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06:52:47  <andythenorth> daylength
06:52:57  * andythenorth would like RL daylength
06:52:59  <V453000> nightlength
06:53:05  <andythenorth> variable between faster and slower
06:53:06  <V453000> yes would be cool
06:53:21  <andythenorth> I believe it can be achieved pharmaceutically
06:53:27  <andythenorth> possibly with side effects :(
06:53:44  <andythenorth> a crack habit is a bit of a commitment
06:54:04  <V453000> :D
06:54:08  <andythenorth> also a crack-based daylength patch is incompatible with children
06:54:14  <andythenorth> also employment
06:54:23  <andythenorth> hmm
06:54:31  <andythenorth> gives me an idea though
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06:55:02  <andythenorth> all those players who want daylength in openttd - why don’t they just do ketamine or amphetamine, as appropriate?
06:55:09  <andythenorth> simply adjust the player, instead of adjusting the game
06:55:36  <Alberth> I mostly wonder why nobody makes a newgrf that fixes the problem :)
06:55:40  <Alberth> hi hi btw
06:56:13  <V453000> I mainly wonder why they need more than 200 years of gameplay if they generally play for like 2 hours anywau
06:56:14  <andythenorth> I guess these players would argue that taking halucegenic drugs was unrealistic :(
06:56:32  <Alberth> too obsessed with real-life history, I guess
06:56:32  <andythenorth> they would probably make charts and shit to prove it
06:57:00  * andythenorth proposes a new option
 “Time progression: random"
06:57:22  <andythenorth> there is no particular known reason in physics why time goes forward
06:57:29  <andythenorth> just seems to be a convention
06:57:33  <Alberth> "none" is easier, just don't display the date :p
06:57:38  <andythenorth> Alberth: +1
06:57:49  <andythenorth> there are no nights, and no real seasons
06:57:53  <andythenorth> so why bother with dates?
06:57:57  <V453000> charts and shit made my day andythenorth :D
06:58:22  <Alberth> and it's only 9am :D
06:58:30  <andythenorth> “I took drugs and I saw things that are *not* described in the trains section of wikipedia.  UNREALISTIC”
06:58:34  <V453000> (:
06:58:39  <V453000> LOL
06:59:38  <V453000> starting to model power plant (:
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07:00:07  * andythenorth proposes drug-therapy problem for the train nerds, it does help in life generally when you learn how easily what you see and think can be distorted
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07:00:27  <V453000> :D
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07:00:38  <Samu> hi
07:00:58  <andythenorth> is today ‘open refactor_this.less’ and start actual work?  Or is today something else?
07:01:17  <andythenorth> on the plus side, I’d like to get it done.  On the negative side, nobody ever welcomes that job
07:01:22  <Alberth> it may also be sunday, or sun day
07:01:28  <V453000> :d
07:01:30  <andythenorth> yes but I have childcare
07:01:34  <andythenorth> so I can do actual work
07:01:35  <V453000> could be yeti or yeti
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07:01:41  <andythenorth> I only do actual work about 3 days per month
07:01:46  <V453000> :d
07:01:47  <Alberth> :o
07:02:01  <andythenorth> the rest of the time I am in an office, where I sign things and read paperwork and stuff
07:02:14  <andythenorth> or nap
07:02:34  <andythenorth> or I’m ‘entertaining' my children
07:02:43  <Alberth> busy andy :)
07:03:10  <andythenorth> after a hard morning of redmine ticket admin, a nap is just the thing
07:03:14  <V453000> well for the last few weeks I have nothing to do at work either so I just model yeti
07:03:28  <V453000> (:
07:03:35  <andythenorth> bodes well for European GDP :P
07:04:02  <andythenorth> I could animate something in FIRS
07:05:09  <Alberth> a yeti guest appearance?
07:05:47  <andythenorth> hide it in a mine
07:06:02  <Alberth> although they should appear from an ufo, of course
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07:32:07  <supermop> apparently there are no decent australian wool mills that I can find
07:32:33  <supermop> want to buy a nice woven blanket and seems my best bet is pendleton
07:33:01  <supermop> for some reason i though wool was a big industry here
07:33:14  <supermop> i guess i should look for a bauxite blanket
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07:33:42  <Samu> problem: i can't change freight weight during multiplayer, but I can in single player. is there a reason for that?
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07:36:48  <Flygon> Didn'tcha hear supermop? We outsourced that to China
07:36:59  <Flygon> More seriously now
07:37:07  <Flygon> The Wool Industry was gigantic here
07:37:12  <Alberth> Samu: yep, preventing desyncs
07:37:14  <Flygon> But changed around the 80s-90s
07:37:34  <Samu> aww
07:38:59  <planetmaker> moin moin
07:39:05  <Alberth> hi hi pm
07:39:11  <Flygon> Menta
07:39:27  <peter1139> Alberth, if clients == 0 ...
07:39:46  <peter1139> SEND EVERYTHING TO A DEPOT
07:40:56  <Alberth> perhaps, but your patch was obviously not included, as Samu then would not have a problem
07:41:14  <peter1139> :D :D
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07:49:00  <Phreeze> yop
07:52:25  * Alberth waves
07:52:54  <Phreeze> glad my gf bought that "energy water"
07:53:02  <Phreeze> it's nice after 5 pints of cider...
07:53:36  <Flygon> So basically water mixed with sugar
07:54:09  <pthagnar> caffeine too, probably
07:55:02  <Phreeze> no caff, but sugar and added vitamines
07:55:05  <Phreeze> and much spacy shit
07:55:17  <Phreeze> E340ii
07:55:21  <Phreeze> E414, E445
07:55:22  <Phreeze> etc
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07:55:37  <Phreeze> and OMG NaCl ! :D
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07:56:41  <planetmaker> we will all die!
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07:57:48  <Samu_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaCl
07:58:40  <planetmaker> I think everyone knows what NaCl is...
08:00:09  <planetmaker> Phreeze, does it also contain di-hydrogen monoxide? Allegedly one of the deadliest substances ever
08:00:28  <Rubidium> planetmaker: since not everyone knows about dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO)... I doubt the NaCl is known by everyone
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 [www.adiirc.com]]
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08:03:23  <Phreeze> still have that "right move" mousebug
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08:03:36  <Rubidium> and don't forget that they often forget the mention hydroxide and hydronium ;)
08:03:41  <Phreeze> when i move the view with the right mouse button, it often accelerates like hell
08:05:20  <Samu_> try with another mouse
08:05:38  <Samu_> i don't seem to have a problem
08:10:21  <andythenorth> isn’t DHMO rebranded ‘Aqua’ ?
08:10:28  <Phreeze> it worked well before 1.4.0
08:10:37  <Phreeze> the mouse is pretty new
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08:13:34  <Samu_> could be new  but with defective
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08:14:57  <Phreeze> ...
08:15:14  <Phreeze> i'm experienced enough to say it's NOT the mouse, i play lots of other games etc. ;)
08:15:15  <Samu_> im scrolling with right click button pressed down, i dont seem to have a problem
08:15:23  <Samu_> maybe you're talking about sensitivity?
08:15:26  <V453000> guys are you aware that if you actually play the game, you have less time for pointless talk about (to your opinion missing) features?
08:15:26  <Phreeze> it's not always, but sometimes
08:15:36  <Phreeze> i am playing V ;)
08:16:34  <V453000> clearly not enough
08:17:20  <andythenorth> V453000: I disagree 100%
08:17:24  <Samu_> i am playing
08:17:28  <andythenorth> whenever I play the game
.more talk
08:17:32  <V453000> :D
08:17:41  <V453000> yes andy but you know what you are talking about
08:17:49  <Samu_> there's barely any chat in game
08:18:05  <Samu_> what would I do then? watch my ships move around?
08:18:12  <V453000> build more trains?
08:18:50  <Phreeze> with no money ?
08:18:54  <Phreeze> i just started on btpro ;)
08:19:21  <Samu_> im on btpro K13 i think
08:19:48  <V453000> well that explains everything
08:20:26  <Samu_> how?
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08:25:47  <Phreeze> he's talking trash ;)
08:26:25  <Samu_> http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_xp-desktop/how-to-increase-minimum-drag-distance/9816365c-049a-4eb9-a5fa-5126ec6781a2?msgId=595cf2cc-0b13-41bf-88a9-4268f69fdd2c
08:26:25  <Alberth> no, V plays co-operative games, where there is lots of discussion
08:26:59  <planetmaker> yeah. V is usually pretty chatty on the coop servers :)
08:27:15  <planetmaker> as are the other guys (and gals?) there
08:27:29  <andythenorth> ho
08:27:33  <planetmaker> hi
08:27:34  <V453000> because there is stuff to discuss when someone plays the game properly :P
08:27:38  <andythenorth> there’s a whole world of stuff out there I didn’t know about
08:27:47  <planetmaker> world of stuff?!
08:27:50  * andythenorth just found a totally new set of FIRS discussions
08:27:54  <Samu_> cops servers use those weird vehicles, i dont like it
08:27:59  <planetmaker> andythenorth, where? :)
08:28:05  <andythenorth> btpro
08:28:09  <planetmaker> ho
08:28:12  <andythenorth> http://openttd.btpro.nl/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=category&catid=28&Itemid=604
08:28:21  <V453000> weird vehicles =D I win 100 points
08:28:48  <Phreeze> how can it be that a fruit plantagen says "78% transported" while 4 trains are waiting for ages !?
08:29:08  <Alberth> trains too long?
08:29:13  <planetmaker> station rating, Phreeze ?
08:29:42  <Phreeze> it's pretty new...but still
08:30:02  <Phreeze> 100% are loaded, so it should show 100%
08:30:06  <Phreeze> not 78%
08:30:23  <V453000> station rating.
08:30:52  <Samu_> put another separate station and load from both
08:31:45  <Phreeze> i dont want that
08:32:08  <Samu_> buy a statue
08:32:22  <Phreeze> it's a fruit farm ;)
08:32:37  <Alberth> Samu_: so there is chat about the game, it just got moved to #openttd :)
08:32:41  <V453000> just face it that you cant get more out of it and connect another fruit plantation?
08:32:48  <Phreeze> join server 14 bt pro, desert 4000 pop goal
08:33:01  <Samu_> i'm on 13
08:33:05  <Phreeze> it's 1 station with 4 trains that serves 2 plantations
08:33:12  <Samu_> the only real server for ships
08:33:19  <Samu_> but then they only limit it to 20... how dumb
08:33:31  <planetmaker> I wonder whether they run (also) patched servers. Additionally to offering patched clients
08:33:58  <planetmaker> though the client supposedly only contains client-side patches
08:34:02  <Samu_> let me see
08:34:32  <Samu_> oops, K3, not 13
08:37:19  <V453000> I knew people on btpro are bad, but that they cant read numbers I didnt know :P
08:38:10  <planetmaker> http://openttd.btpro.nl/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=home&defaultmenu=606&Itemid=604 <-- V453000 with all those numbers I'd constantly get it wrong, too
08:38:27  <V453000> :D what the fuck is that
08:38:42  <planetmaker> their client... with quick-click to their individual servers
08:38:49  <V453000> right I see
08:39:15  <V453000> not yeti enough
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08:43:54  <andythenorth> Phreeze: use a piglet
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08:46:21  <Phreeze> a what ?
08:47:32  <Samu_> Phreeze: http://wiki.openttd.org/Station_Ratings#Station_rating
08:51:17  <V453000> power plant should obviously produce batteries.
08:51:50  <andythenorth> hmm
08:52:00  <andythenorth> can I be arsed to read the tram drawing code?
08:52:07  <andythenorth> the offsets look to be different
08:52:07  <V453000> nope
08:52:08  <planetmaker> in yeti it definitely does. In toyland it well could. though maybe rather use batteries?
08:52:28  <V453000> no it uses coal and fills batteries with energy =D
08:52:34  <V453000> or uranium, yeah
08:52:38  <planetmaker> oil
08:52:42  <planetmaker> wind
08:52:47  <planetmaker> wind energy gets a new meaning then
08:52:53  <V453000> oil is elsewhere already :)
08:53:01  <planetmaker> would well suit yeti. wind power plant: gather wind, provide batteries :)
08:53:05  <planetmaker> primary industry thus
08:53:26  <planetmaker> maybe uses workers which need to provide the wind :D
08:53:43  <planetmaker> thus you could feed them beans :DD
08:53:53  <Rubidium> the creation of simple throw away batteries does not require electricity. It's just packaging some metals and chemicals together
08:54:31  <V453000> Rubidium: that is exactly why human technogoly isnt nearly as advanced as yeti technology
08:54:32  <planetmaker> how realistic :(
08:54:34  <Rubidium> so *if* the power plant creates batteries, it should get the raw ingredients for them... or just depleted rechargeable batteries from somewhere else
08:55:01  <V453000> k I give it uranium
08:55:30  <Rubidium> I doubt that stores many electrons
08:55:38  <planetmaker> 92 per atom :P
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08:55:54  <V453000> I charge them batteries at the plant
08:55:56  <V453000> eazy
08:56:03  <Rubidium> planetmaker: and how many of them can you rip easily?
08:56:11  <V453000> 93
08:56:12  <planetmaker> one, I think
08:56:35  <planetmaker> hm... no, 6
08:56:38  <planetmaker> there's UF6
08:56:50  <planetmaker> usued in the actual enrichment process
08:56:51  <Rubidium> so... in effect, for battery purposes it stores 1 and needs 92 to "operate"
08:57:36  <planetmaker> and the F definitely 'accepts' the electrons. No better material to gnaw at electrons than F
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09:03:32  <Phreeze> is this the chemistry channel ? :D
09:05:37  <planetmaker> it's on-topic. It needs discussion in the light of which cargoes go in and out! ;)
09:06:10  <Samu_> there's still servers that are using Original instead of YAPF for ships :(
09:06:34  <planetmaker> yeah, they didn't adjust their cfg
09:06:37  <Samu_> YAPF is much smarter, albeit annoying with ship is lost when they're not, I can just turn it off
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09:07:51  <Samu_> why does it think it's lost when it's going in the right direction everytime (almost)
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09:09:23  <Phreeze> time to order pizza
09:12:30  <Phreeze> hm not
09:12:34  <Phreeze> 11h10..not open yet
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09:15:35  <Taede> mornin
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09:18:29  <planetmaker> o/
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09:56:21  <planetmaker> hm, I broke setup.py
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10:15:49  <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> yes andy but you know what you are talking about <-- that is the best joke i heard today :p
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10:28:05  <Samu_> my server today isn't being successful :(
10:29:13  <Samu_> http://www.openttd.org/en/server/80714
10:29:47  <Samu_> 1 client, well, not really, I'm server
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10:30:00  <Rubidium> still, more than average amount of users
10:31:15  <Rubidium> it's even in the top 25 percentile of number of clients
10:31:52  <Samu_> it is counting me as client, not server
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10:33:47  <planetmaker> for non-dedicated servers that makes sense
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10:34:45  <Phreeze> i never play multiplayer other than btpro
10:34:48  <Phreeze> or nice
10:34:58  <Phreeze> especially NOT ith stupid AI
10:35:04  <Samu_> yesterday i had other settings
10:35:29  <planetmaker> ais don't exactly count as multi-player ;)
10:35:36  <Samu_> was more successful, filled up to 10 companies
10:35:49  <Samu_> ppl enjoy aircraft too much
10:37:05  <Samu_> I also notice I tend to be more successful the small the map is
10:37:30  <Phreeze> small maps are cool
10:37:38  <Phreeze> just disable stupid airplanes
10:37:52  <Phreeze> i dont like playing much with aircrafts, the income is ridiculous
10:38:11  <Rubidium> because the aircraft income is unrealisticly high?
10:38:17  <planetmaker> I'd limit aircraft to ~10 or so. Good to get quick some starting money. But too few to spam the map with it
10:38:54  <Rubidium> after all, cheapest airline ticket costs less than the cheapest train ticket between Amsterdam and Berlin
10:40:02  <Rubidium> although airline pricing remains odd at best
10:40:24  <Samu_> about the topic of balance, town noise helps great against it, combined with slow growth
10:41:00  <Samu_> also town permissions
10:41:30  <planetmaker> Alberth, do you have a clue? On top of nml-py3, applying https://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3294/ my setup.py fails, but I don't exactly understand what it complains about: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3295/
10:41:31  <Samu_> and trees
10:41:36  <Rubidium> e.g. the cheapest ticket on 29-05 from Amsterdam to Paris via Copenhagen, London and Birmingham are up to more than 3 times cheaper than the direct flight
10:41:42  <Phreeze> hm those city grwoth scripts suck with the mail-setting
10:41:46  <Rubidium> s/and/or/
10:41:55  <Phreeze> too much mail required, even big cities don't produce enough compared to passenger
10:42:23  <planetmaker> as it seems to follow exactly what is described in the docs, e.g. at http://pythonhosted.org/setuptools/setuptools.html#automatic-script-creation
10:42:45  <Samu_> planting trees shouldn't be drag and drop in my opinion
10:43:12  <planetmaker> then limit allowed tree placement
10:43:23  <Samu_> it would slow down planting airports
10:43:25  <Samu_> how do i do that?
10:43:39  <planetmaker> check openttd.cfg for settings with 'tree'
10:43:49  <Samu_> wow
10:43:53  <planetmaker> similar to bulldozer and landscaping limits
10:43:55  <Samu_> that settings is a blessing
10:44:47  <Phreeze> is it wise to just demolish ponds in town ?
10:44:54  <Phreeze> they only accept 2/8 passenger
10:45:15  <Phreeze> in fact, talking about fountains
10:49:52  <Samu_> tree_per_64k_frames = 4194304
10:50:06  <Samu_> is it this?
10:51:07  <Alberth> planetmaker: .items() suggests it is supposed to be a dictionary instead of a list, the question is what list is it talking about
10:51:38  <planetmaker> probably the entry_points one
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10:54:26  <Alberth> I think the "options" one, if you look at the setup.py file  http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3296/
10:54:49  <Samu_> how long is a frame burst mentioned here
10:55:38  <Samu_> tree_frame_burst = 4096 ; tree_per_64k_frames = 4194304
10:55:54  <planetmaker> Alberth, but the line number it complains about is with entry_points
10:56:15  <Samu_> i'd like to limit to about 5 trees per second
10:56:18  <planetmaker> and the error vanishes also if I comment those out
10:56:24  <Rubidium> Samu_: https://wiki.openttd.org/?search=burst&go=Go&title=Special%3ASearch
10:56:46  <Samu_> ok, tx
10:57:02  <Rubidium> clear and tree are equivalent in behaviour, except one is for clearing tiles and the other for planting trees
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11:00:53  <Samu_> how long is a frame burst, can't find that
11:01:54  <Rubidium> it's not a time, it's an amount
11:02:55  <Samu_> ah, so tree_frame_burst = 5 ; tree_per_64k_frames = 4194304 will do what I want
11:02:56  <Rubidium> imagine a bucket; the size is frame burst and water flows in at speed of X per_64k_frames.
11:03:06  <Phreeze> there should be an option to resize the font of the map-fonts
11:03:12  <Rubidium> every built tree removes 1 from the bucket
11:03:14  <Phreeze> it's some pixels...nearly can't read it
11:03:38  <Rubidium> and the bucket overflows when it's full
11:03:43  <Alberth> planetmaker: random guess   entry_points={ 'console_scripts' :  {'nmlc' : 'nml.main:run'} }    ?
11:04:25  <Rubidium> a second has about 33 frames (at normal speed)
11:05:58  <Rubidium> so the tree_frame_burst is basically the amount of "trees" you can save up front
11:06:21  <Samu_> I got it, 5 it is then
11:06:55  <Rubidium> Samu_: that still means you can clear 5 tiles multiple times a second
11:07:40  <Rubidium> you just need to be quite fast
11:08:15  <Samu_> so i'm limited to 1x5 by drag and drop pretty much?
11:08:15  <Rubidium> @calc 65536/33*5
11:08:15  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 9929.6969697
11:08:23  <Rubidium> yes
11:08:31  <Samu_> that fits my purposes
11:08:59  <Rubidium> with tree_per_64k_frames at 9930 you should be able to limit it to 5 tiles per 'second'
11:09:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: there is. it's just hidden in the .cfg
11:09:34  <Samu_> the bucket size is 9929?
11:10:00  <Samu_> nevermind, its 5
11:10:10  <Samu_> but it fills up at the big speed
11:11:00  <Rubidium> Samu_: no, the inflow into the bucket will be 9930 per 64k frames, so 9930/65536*33 are to be added to the bucket every second
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11:15:42  <Samu_> i wouldn't want 5 tiles per second, but a max of 5 trees per use
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11:15:49  <Alberth> planetmaker: it really is the "options": cmd_options = ['ply', 'pillow']  <-- when you print "cmd_options"
11:16:04  <planetmaker> hm... interesting
11:16:10  <planetmaker> thanks
11:16:33  <planetmaker> will toy with that more after sailing. Gotta leave now till evening hours.
11:16:43  <planetmaker> bye :) and thanks again
11:16:48  <Samu_> and im still being considerate
11:16:55  <Samu_> it should be 1 tree max per use
11:17:02  <Samu_> lol
11:18:18  <Samu_> what happens if I enter the value 0?
11:18:19  <Samu_> does it accept 0?
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11:18:57  <Eddi|zuHause> in the console you can see the valid range
11:19:26  <Samu_> wiki says it goes from 0 to a biiiiig number
11:19:44  <Samu_> but mentions 0 as very few
11:19:47  <Samu_> isn't it really none?
11:19:54  <Samu_> no trees possible to plant
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11:23:13  <Samu_> gonna toy around with these settings, brb
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11:26:48  <Samu_> muahahhah, i can deny terraforming!
11:26:54  <Samu_> i always wanted to do this
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11:32:09  <Samu_> these settings should really be set up in the advanced game settings window
11:32:16  <Samu_> they're useful
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11:32:47  <Rubidium> the settings itself are efficient, but explaining them isn't
11:33:11  <Samu_> allow terraforming: yes/no
11:33:17  <Samu_> just that
11:33:30  <Samu_> don't need to complicate
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11:36:05  <Samu_> or, yes/no/custom if you want to complicate a bit
11:37:36  <Rubidium> though all settings are shown 'direct', as is. Maybe with a dropdown, but besides that it's always just one setting
11:38:13  <Rubidium> configuring two settings 'at once', or with some conversion is not implemented
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12:25:37  <Eddi|zuHause>  <Rubidium> configuring two settings 'at once', or with some conversion is not implemented <-- i think you can add functions to settings, so changing the setting calls the function (which may then change another setting)
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12:35:39  <Wolf01> hi hi
12:39:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i now break everything.
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13:13:07  <supermop> playing on some polish server
13:13:17  <supermop> anyone want to join?
13:16:43  <frosch123> hmm, we have no "custom industry amount" setting?
13:16:50  <frosch123> as we have for town number and sea level
13:17:27  <Alberth> indeed we have not
13:17:36  <Alberth> you can also not change the grow rate
13:20:54  <fonsinchen> The polish are the only ones who announce cargodist in the server list. However, they insist on that PKP set. Those trains have such slow loading times that it's insanely hard to get all the passengers transported.
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13:22:08  <Samu_> my server is using cargo distribution
13:22:10  <Samu_> no one joins
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13:24:21  <fonsinchen> You don't announce it in the name
13:24:34  <fonsinchen> I didn't find you last time I was looking
13:24:47  <Alberth> you use an insane vehicle set
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13:25:11  <fonsinchen> Insane like NUTS, or insane insane?
13:25:22  <Alberth> insane like not NUTS
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13:39:34  * andythenorth votes option 3
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13:53:10  <supermop> fonsinchen: but the pkp trains are so pretty
13:53:39  <supermop> i desynched
13:53:54  <supermop> but i liked the little network i had going
13:54:10  <fonsinchen> Someone should debug those desyncs
13:54:36  <supermop> 4-pointed hub and spoke
13:54:49  <frosch123> yay for reusing dead strings \o/
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13:55:07  <tzaeru> hai
13:57:54  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26557 /trunk (8 files in 4 dirs) (2014-05-04 13:57:48 UTC)
13:57:55  <DorpsGek> -Fix: clean up, test (somewhat), and complete the API for waiting cargo
14:01:44  <frosch123> hola
14:03:10  <tzaeru> hopping from a citybuilder server to next, trying to find a fun one -.O
14:03:51  <supermop> ok i have to go to bed someone take over my company
14:03:54  <supermop> pw is mop
14:17:30  <tzaeru> mh, can't yet find any citybuilder servers that used full cargodist..
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14:25:19  <frosch123> what breaks if i allow changing of the snow line height in game?
14:28:30  <Samu_> is there a multi-pause command that pauses all OpenTTDs currently running?
14:28:51  <Rubidium> frosch123: global var 20?
14:28:53  <Samu_> or a way to do it
14:29:10  <frosch123> Rubidium: SGF_NO_NETWORK deals with that, i guess
14:29:16  <Samu_> im trying to chrono something
14:30:02  <Rubidium> if that's covered, then I'm not sure
14:34:14  <frosch123> hmm, if i do not know what to put into the land generator helptext... is that a reason to remove it from gui?
14:38:01  <Rubidium> at least to move it to the advanced settings
14:38:18  <frosch123> that is obvious :p
14:38:40  <frosch123> i was asking for the helptext in the adv. settings window
14:40:04  <Rubidium> "Original gives a (blocky) landscape like Transport Tycoon, whereas Terragenisis creates more realistic (curvy) landscapes"
14:43:38  <andythenorth> frosch123: probably newgrfs :P
14:44:15  <andythenorth> hmm
14:44:20  <andythenorth> where is virtualbox?
14:44:31  * andythenorth faces a future containing IE 7
14:45:38  <andythenorth> hmm
14:45:46  <andythenorth> it’s not breaking, it should be
14:46:43  <frosch123> why does ie not have exponential version numbers?
14:47:45  <Rubidium> why would it?
14:48:19  <andythenorth> well this is annoying
14:48:35  <andythenorth> IE 7 isn’t supposed to understand html5 elements like nav
14:48:41  <andythenorth> but it’s rendering them correctly
14:51:26  <andythenorth> grr
14:51:38  <andythenorth> one of the existing page libraries is ‘fixing’ html5
14:51:52  <andythenorth> which is fine, but I don’t know which or how complete the fix it
14:51:54  <andythenorth> is *
14:52:10  <andythenorth> today this channel is brought to you by off-topic
14:52:29  <Phreeze> ie7 lol
14:57:22  <andythenorth> you may lol :P
14:57:23  <andythenorth> I can’t
14:59:01  <Samu_> land generator?
14:59:19  <Samu_> terragenesis isn't too great for arctic
14:59:25  <Samu_> needs a lot of tweaking
15:02:43  <andythenorth> could be shortened to “terragenesis isn’t too great"
15:06:08  <Samu_> farms can't grow on ice
15:06:20  <Samu_> and forest can only grow on ice
15:06:46  <Samu_> then there's also sea %
15:07:15  <Samu_> not easy to find the ideal combination
15:07:46  <Samu_> sea vs mountains
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15:08:10  <andythenorth> you don’t really get mountains and such in terragenesis
15:08:20  <andythenorth> it tends to build high plateaus
15:08:38  <andythenorth> the original generator is better for arctic imho, and also for sub-tropical
15:08:58  <Samu_> nah, sub-tropical looks alright
15:09:19  <Samu_> it only is missing sawmulls
15:09:35  <Samu_> but they don't spawn by themselves anyway, or do they?
15:10:04  <V453000> you guys just cant make terra genesis output nice results
15:10:08  <V453000> is all :P
15:10:13  <andythenorth> V453000: maybe you are more leet
15:10:26  <andythenorth> I honestly have never played ottd, I just have armchair opinions :P
15:10:33  <V453000> :D
15:10:41  <andythenorth> I didn’t spend a weekend trying to patch terragenisis to be less stupid :P
15:11:02  <V453000> I just spent -time- to generate nice maps in terra genesis and it works just fine to me
15:11:16  <V453000> the variety distribution is quite stupid but turning that off solves it
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15:14:59  <V453000> Samu just obviously put his snow line too low
15:15:00  <V453000> simple
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15:15:40  <Phreeze> Samu_, just improve the generator ;)
15:16:12  <V453000> usually a good idea to actually orientate in the old one first before improving it (:
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15:16:58  <Samu_> snow line is 7
15:17:04  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26558 trunk/src/script/api/script_station.cpp (2014-05-04 15:16:58 UTC)
15:17:05  <DorpsGek> -Fix: be more explicit about the type of iterators in the waiting cargo API
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15:17:38  <V453000> which is clearly too low then
15:17:40  <V453000> have it higher?
15:18:51  <V453000> the solution does not sound terribly complicated does it
15:19:09  <Samu_> you mean lower?
15:19:21  <Samu_> there's barely any snow
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15:19:39  <V453000> well then you have some flat or very flat or something?
15:19:53  <fonsinchen> snow is not efficient. There shouldn't be any snow on the map
15:19:55  <V453000> if you want more snow, get hilly/mountainnous? :)
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15:19:57  <Samu_> i got mountainous
15:20:09  <V453000> ...
15:20:10  <Samu_> i want about a 60/40
15:20:16  <Samu_> 60 grass, 40 snow
15:20:18  <Samu_> on non water
15:20:34  <V453000> variety distribution?
15:20:37  <Samu_> then there's also sea level to factor
15:21:01  <V453000> why dont you just make a screenshot
15:21:37  <Samu_> im playing around with settings
15:21:48  <Samu_> it seems to be variety distribution that's screwing things
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15:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, "glxinfo" instantly crashing X is probably a BAD FEATURE
15:22:47  <Samu_> there's a huge difference between None to Very Low
15:22:50  <Samu_> way more ice
15:22:58  <Samu_> pretty much everything is ice when I set none
15:24:59  <V453000> never use variety distribution
15:28:45  <Samu_> okay, got it nearly to my liking
15:29:07  <Samu_> i must set mountainous
15:29:22  <Samu_> then either rough or smooth
15:29:44  <Samu_> variety is None
15:30:13  <Samu_> now let me check sea level, brb
15:30:54  <Samu_> hmm, sea level medium
15:31:02  <Samu_> low generates too much ice
15:31:04  <Phreeze> what's that variety distribution anyway ?
15:31:13  <Samu_> it's none
15:31:14  <Phreeze> my maps looka lways the same if with high or no
15:31:28  <Samu_> snow level is still 7
15:31:34  <Eddi|zuHause> variety distribution makes some areas flat while others are hilly
15:31:44  <Phreeze> hm k
15:31:45  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise the whole map is the same kind of hilly
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15:34:14  <Samu_> mountainous/smoth/medium vs hilly/rough/medium
15:34:25  <Samu_> think i take the 2nd option
15:35:44  <Samu_> http://i.imgur.com/sI5seHW.png
15:35:54  <Samu_> something like this, it's how I like
15:36:47  <Samu_> there's enough balance between farms, ice, snow, grass and not that many little islands
15:37:05  <Samu_> also balanced with sea level
15:37:30  <Samu_> oops, ice and snow is the same thing lol
15:37:37  <Samu_> i mean sea in one of those
15:46:08  <Samu_> this one looks really good http://i.imgur.com/83UZR7c.png - it's hilly/rough/low
15:46:09  <Samu_> low sea level, that is
15:47:49  <Samu_> took me about 20 tries to find something good :p
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16:10:49  <Phreeze> i had a pretty good arctic map
16:10:53  <Phreeze> lots of forests
16:10:56  <Phreeze> lots of farms
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16:17:31  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26559 /branches/1.4/src/lang (13 files) (2014-05-04 16:17:25 UTC)
16:17:32  <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Backport from trunk: language updates
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16:20:24  <Wolf01> bye
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16:20:39  <Phreeze> what is that "backport"
16:21:07  <valhallasw> Phreeze: applying a change from a newer version to an older version
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16:21:23  <valhallasw> in this case, updating the translations in the 1.4 release based on the most recent ones
16:24:14  <Samu_> lol @ console
16:24:20  <Samu_> 'default' is not an integer
16:24:28  <Samu_> default is 4096, but k
16:24:58  <Eddi|zuHause> 'default' is a string, obviously
16:26:12  <Eddi|zuHause> sooo... opensource drivers still unusable...
16:26:46  <andythenorth> in other news, html is still also unusable
16:27:23  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in the sense that the screen is black and it flickers the content every 2 seconds for 0.1 second?
16:27:51  <andythenorth> no
16:28:03  <Eddi|zuHause> then i win
16:28:22  <andythenorth> in the sense that you can spend a day trying to find out what is the best way to do some trivial task
16:28:23  <Samu_> are you creating openttd to play in a browser?
16:28:41  <andythenorth> and at the ened of the day all you get is a headache
16:28:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu_: that is already done
16:28:52  <Samu_> oh
16:28:55  <andythenorth> it’s not even clear when you’re definitely wrong
16:29:08  <andythenorth> there are people defining specs, according to which I’m right
16:29:29  <andythenorth> then there are people defining other specs, or proving why the spec is wrong
16:29:43  <andythenorth> or worse, must be ignored to comply with a different spec which is required, and orthogonal
16:30:11  <andythenorth> I really hate html
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16:31:16  <andythenorth> partly the problem is that very few of the assistive technologies actually implement any specs properly
16:31:27  <andythenorth> and Assistive Technologies Must Be Complied With
16:31:30  <andythenorth> even though they can’t be
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16:31:59  <andythenorth> waste of a day
16:32:04  <andythenorth> I should have spent it drinking instead
16:35:42  <Samu_> i created a video, realistic vs original side by side http://1drv.ms/1g0J5Dh
16:36:20  <Samu_> much bored
16:38:16  <Phreeze> wheres the video
16:38:21  <Phreeze> in fact, what video
16:42:22  <Samu_> its not opening?
16:42:51  <Samu_> damn, it shared the folder, not the video per se
16:42:53  <Samu_> sec
16:43:14  <Samu_> http://1drv.ms/1g0JPbv
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16:50:28  <Phreeze> whats realistic ?
16:50:32  <Phreeze> left or right
16:50:36  <Phreeze> right is sloooow
16:51:09  <Samu_> play in full screen
16:51:18  <Phreeze> i see
16:51:21  <Samu_> realistic is x2 10%
16:51:24  <Phreeze> weird that realistic is much faster
16:51:31  <Phreeze> x2 10% means what ?
16:51:41  <Samu_> that's one of the cases where realistic loses to original
16:51:58  <Samu_> x2 the freight weight
16:52:03  <Samu_> 10% steepness
16:52:26  <Eddi|zuHause> "realistic" is faster because "original" is stupid
16:52:27  <Samu_> original uses x1 weight
16:52:28  <Samu_> steepness has no effect
16:52:38  <Phreeze> never played original since ottd
16:52:40  <Eddi|zuHause> you're still not any closer to proving a point
16:54:40  <Samu_> what kind of track layout do you want me for comparison?
16:55:03  <Phreeze> fucking fifa website
16:55:08  <Phreeze> i checked my username, its ok
16:55:16  <Phreeze> register: "error: screen name in use"
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16:56:16  <Samu_> realistic catches up on the way back, it's funny
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17:45:16  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26560 trunk/src/lang/irish.txt (2014-05-04 17:45:09 UTC)
17:45:17  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:18  <DorpsGek> irish - 32 changes by tem
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18:24:49  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26561 /branches/1.4 (6 files in 4 dirs) (2014-05-04 18:24:43 UTC)
18:24:50  <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Update documentation
18:25:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu_: but the way back is irrelevant, because it does not earn you any money
18:26:27  <andythenorth> depends on auto-refit :P
18:26:55  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26562 /tags/1.4.1-RC1 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2014-05-04 18:26:50 UTC)
18:26:56  <DorpsGek> -Release 1.4.1-RC1
18:27:11  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, then the assumption that it's empty doesn't hold anymore...
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18:56:35  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i think i broke plasma now :/
18:57:23  <planetmaker> Sufficient energy will recharge it ;)
19:02:37  <Alberth> add energy by smashing it to the wall
19:04:00  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26563 trunk/src/script/api/script_station.cpp (2014-05-04 19:03:54 UTC)
19:04:01  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26558): Don't pass explicit template arguments to std::make_pair.
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19:25:52  <Alberth> hi hi
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19:36:50  <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.4.0, 1.4.1-RC1
19:36:50  *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.4.0, 1.4.1-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
19:38:12  <ST2> thank you frosch123, already checked and Goal GUI's are way better now :)
19:38:31  <ST2> anyway, left the test server running... to ppl use it and test RC :)
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19:56:32  <andythenorth> where is GS?
19:57:13  <frosch123> on the north border of harz mountains
19:57:33  * andythenorth goes north
20:07:46  <Alberth> you encounter a mighty river. There seems to be a bridge, but it looks very wobbly
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20:25:27  <DanMacK> Hey all
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20:48:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i was in GS once
20:51:32  <frosch123> yay, only took me 10 hours to write a reply on the forums :)
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21:24:56  <Airwave> I have many single-headed trains right now, and the best upgrade right now is a dual-headed one. How do I upgrade my single-headed trains to dual-headed ones while keeping the same length?
21:25:24  <Taede> are you using auto-replace?
21:25:34  <Taede> if so, make sure wagon-removal is on
21:26:01  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a button "remove wagons"
21:26:50  <Airwave> Ah, excellent. Thank you.
21:26:53  <Airwave> I'll give that a try.
21:27:31  <Airwave> If I switch back to single-headed trains, is there any easy way to add that extra wagon back, by the way?
21:27:51  <Eddi|zuHause> no
21:28:00  <Airwave> Hmm.
21:28:07  <Airwave> Seems like a big bother then.
21:29:52  <Airwave> Is putting two single-headed engines at each end of a train a bad idea?
21:30:33  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on the situation. but you can't do that automatically either
21:30:41  <frosch123> no, it's more effective than putting them directly adjacent
21:31:05  <Airwave> Hmm, ok.
21:31:20  <frosch123> usually engines are a lot heavier than wagons
21:31:35  <frosch123> and it is better if less weight is on a slope at a time
21:31:48  <frosch123> so it is better if engines are not on a slope at the same time
21:31:57  <frosch123> which happens if you put them directly behind each other
21:32:02  <Airwave> I see.
21:32:04  <Airwave> Thank you.
21:32:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think the game mechanics work like that
21:33:04  <frosch123> sure they do, slope matters per vehicle
21:35:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i thought it was averaged over the train, like curves
21:37:37  <frosch123> GetSlopeResistance iterates over all vehicles
21:38:10  <frosch123> and in my games trains always slow down then the engines hits the slope, and accelerate once the engine is at the top
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21:42:17  <Airwave> Maybe it depends if you're playing with realistic acceleration.
21:45:00  <frosch123> noone plays without realistic acceleration
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21:59:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i should screw everything up once more
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22:03:03  <Eddi|zuHause> oh hey that went way better than expected :p
22:03:18  <Eddi|zuHause> (i probably shouldn't have said that)
22:16:01  <frosch123> night
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23:22:32  <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't there once a setting in youtube to use html5 instead of flash?
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23:24:22  <Samu> youtube.com/html5
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23:45:35  <Eddi|zuHause> ok that works fine and uses way less CPU
23:45:58  <Eddi|zuHause> but it now shows this "waiting for <url>" in the bottom
23:46:04  <Eddi|zuHause> even in fullscreen
23:47:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and comments stopped working??
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