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00:09:05 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:09:05 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:36 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:08 *** anbaran [~oftc-webi@150.101.221.114] has joined #openttd 00:59:48 <anbaran> Anybody willing to take a quick glance at a station for me? I'm a total noob and I feel like my train shouldn't be waiting where it is. 01:02:35 <anbaran> Here's the picture - I thought the trains should be able to enter either platform because of the path signals? doesn't seem to be happening though. http://imgur.com/p7tkPJc 01:03:58 <ST2> try change the 2 way pbs signals faced to the other side 01:04:03 <ST2> only a suggestion 01:04:13 <ST2> no idea if actually will work xD 01:04:42 <ST2> (the ones closer to the station - 2 way pbs :) 01:04:53 <anbaran> Alright! trying it out. 01:06:08 <anbaran> Nah, now he just waits at the 1 way pbs 01:09:41 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@5.155.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:10:01 <anbaran> Oh damn I figured it out! It was the signals on the other side. 01:10:55 <anbaran> They were both facing inwards so it must have goofed it. 01:13:31 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:22:07 *** MTsPony [~marctraid@076-010-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:21 *** MTsPony [~marctraid@076-010-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 01:28:17 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:45 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 01:47:05 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:187d:69a2:effa:3ab4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:14 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:53:00 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 01:54:16 *** anbaran [~oftc-webi@150.101.221.114] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:08:57 *** pthagnar 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[~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 05:58:17 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 06:04:05 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-55-232.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:11:36 *** LSky` [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:13:58 <planetmaker> moin moin 06:21:06 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 06:25:14 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 06:34:08 *** steili [~oftc-webi@c8E6947C1.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:54 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:51:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AC6C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:32:48 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:46 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:40:39 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 07:40:42 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:47:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 07:47:45 <andythenorth> o/ 07:51:02 <Alberth> mornink andy 07:56:27 <planetmaker> o/ 08:07:48 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 08:11:32 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:18:08 <__ln__> http://www.daveexmachina.com/wordpress/?p=8880 08:18:33 *** LSky` [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 08:20:23 <andythenorth> hmm 08:20:43 <andythenorth> so are we making nml faster? o_O 08:21:43 <planetmaker> maybe? 08:23:09 <andythenorth> I donât think Iâll do much more on FIRS until either... 08:23:17 <andythenorth> - faster compile 08:23:20 <andythenorth> - linker 08:23:26 <andythenorth> - or I get better at programming 08:23:32 <andythenorth> the third is a Hard Problem 08:23:44 <andythenorth> the other two are much easier options :P 08:24:30 <andythenorth> FIRS already has support for compiling a single industry, but itâs fragile 08:24:36 <andythenorth> I could improve it, would take about a day 08:24:48 <andythenorth> and it doesnât benefit any other newgrfs :P 08:26:02 <Alberth> wouldn't you need the third to do the first two? 08:28:41 <andythenorth> I can do a faster compile with my current fat-fingered skills 08:28:46 <andythenorth> linker is beyond me 08:28:59 <andythenorth> as is Not Making Mistakes Only Found After Compiling 08:29:29 <andythenorth> my ratio of productive code to typos, obiwans, bad thinking etc is low 08:29:38 <andythenorth> and waiting minutes to find each one saps interest 08:31:33 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387AC78.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 08:32:36 <andythenorth> for Iron Horse, Iâve started using some basic compile-time tests in the python stage, before nml is even called 08:34:33 <andythenorth> I am not very clever, so I would probably have approached the whole thing differently 08:34:36 *** kiike [~kiike@46.25.82.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:35:06 <andythenorth> each entity (industry, house, train, object etc) would be an object with full action 0, 2, 3 chain as needed 08:35:21 <andythenorth> then throw each of those into a multiprocessing pool, then link the result 08:35:24 <andythenorth> no global IDs 08:36:38 <andythenorth> global IDs are BAD FEATURE 08:36:45 <andythenorth> or something 08:36:55 <andythenorth> dunno, Iâm not good at computer science :P 08:37:07 <Eddi|zuHause> not everything that yo udon't understand is bad :p 08:41:56 <andythenorth> ha 08:42:13 <andythenorth> I did do some computer science lectures in one of my degrees 08:42:24 <andythenorth> one of the key lessons was Global Variables Must Never Be Used 08:52:18 <andythenorth> no bites :( 08:59:08 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:e975:90d4:33e4:a0f5] has joined #openttd 09:00:39 <Flygon> I once got a lot of shit from people for trying to put nested if statements in AviSynth 09:00:51 <Flygon> And they insisted I ALWAYS try to do if statements in a specific way 09:01:03 <Flygon> Even if the non-nested version of the method I used worked fine... 09:01:51 <Alberth> the point being? 09:02:11 <Alberth> it's called code style, and it's insane by definition 09:02:31 <Alberth> unless it's your own project, in which case it's the optimal way to code 09:03:22 <andythenorth> Iâve witnessed a large discrepancy between code organised by âthere is one true wayâ and code that delivers successfully for end users 09:03:37 <andythenorth> in my limited experience, which is getting close to 30 years 09:03:41 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 09:04:55 <andythenorth> Iâve definitely seen projects fail because they were being done wrong 09:05:06 <andythenorth> and Iâve definitely seen projects fail because they were being done right 09:05:29 <andythenorth> and in the middle is a happy mess of things that more or less work, and are more or less wrong or right 09:07:13 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:e975:90d4:33e4:a0f5] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:09:58 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:e975:90d4:33e4:a0f5] has joined #openttd 09:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> one of the key lessons was Global Variables Must Never Be Used <-- that is a common teaching, but it doesn't mean there's never need to access the same data from every place 09:40:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: thatâs not a very good trash talk answer :( 09:41:01 <andythenorth> stop being so reasonable 09:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause> ... especially when the language doesn't have dynamic allocation/a heap anyway 09:46:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the "no global variables" rule is meant to ensure that you have a clean interface to the "outside". this may or may not help with code reuse and/or automatted program analysis 09:47:33 <andythenorth> itâs also bad advice if novice programmers learn it too hard 09:47:41 <andythenorth> they end up doing elaborate shit 09:48:08 <Alberth> java helps them a lot doing it :) 09:48:26 <Eddi|zuHause> starting with java or c++ is a bad idea 09:48:53 <Eddi|zuHause> because they require lots of stuff before you can even start explaining the basics 09:50:03 <andythenorth> I still feel dirty though when I occasionally write âglobal: foo' 09:50:44 <Alberth> andythenorth: that's good, you have to think carefully whether it is worth the troubles 09:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i write "import globals" :p 09:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause> then i can write "globals.foo" :p 09:51:24 <Alberth> from globals import * :p 09:51:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yeah right :p 10:08:06 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 10:28:23 *** kiike [~kiike@46.25.82.116] has joined #openttd 10:32:35 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@ip-81-11-195-46.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 10:47:52 *** kiike [~kiike@46.25.82.116] has quit [Quit: rebooting] 10:50:46 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 11:11:33 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:27:11 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has joined #openttd 11:30:28 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 11:30:38 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:39:30 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:03:37 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:04:02 <Wolf01> hello o/ 12:04:24 <Alberth> hi hi 12:08:08 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:11:29 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:15:55 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0124f6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:16:23 <Wolf01> mmmh, this morning I wanted to continue a work at home, 4 hours of syncronizing files, and I still have to touch a single line of code :| 12:23:31 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:32:40 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:e975:90d4:33e4:a0f5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:33 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387AC78.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 12:37:21 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has joined #openttd 12:40:03 *** montalvo [~montalvo@88-105-74-118.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 12:56:38 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 13:12:54 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 13:13:44 *** SkeedR [~SkeedR@cpc38-wolv14-2-0-cust352.16-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:37:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.173.54] has joined #openttd 14:07:50 <andythenorth> hmm 14:09:27 <planetmaker> mmh 14:11:06 <LordAro> mhm 14:12:17 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.9.15.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 14:14:40 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@5.155.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:44 *** LSky` [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:16:24 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@ip-81-11-195-46.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:30:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:47:07 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-74-111-111-176.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 15:04:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:11:25 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:49:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:24:12 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 16:30:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:31:03 <andythenorth> hrm 16:31:20 <andythenorth> I have a possibly valid case for writing a makefile 16:31:27 <andythenorth> instead of using some python or shell thing 16:31:57 <andythenorth> but the thought of learning make depresses me :P 16:34:36 <andythenorth> maybe I can persuade someone else to do it 16:38:18 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 16:48:48 *** Pol [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:53:21 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:05:17 *** guru3_ [~guru3@90-230-86-71-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:06:08 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:14:03 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 17:25:27 <Alberth> if you know shellscripts, there are only 3 steps to makefiles 17:28:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:32:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:32:22 <andythenorth> there is an unpleasant step called âlearn make' 17:32:23 <andythenorth> :( 17:34:18 <Alberth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3393/ 17:39:55 *** Pol [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:14 <frosch123> Alberth: but the fun only starts with implicit rules, with double colons, pipes, special targets, recursive invocation ... 17:43:22 <LordAro> easy :) 17:43:58 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:44:10 *** MTsPony [~marctraid@076-010-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 17:44:10 <Alberth> frosch123: sssttt, he'll find out when he understands the 3 steps :p 17:44:17 <frosch123> the worst part is when one rule creates multiple files 17:44:25 <frosch123> i have no figure out yet how to do that correcly 17:44:28 <frosch123> *not 17:44:43 <Alberth> you can't really do that :( 17:44:54 <frosch123> funny thing is, it works with implicit rules :p 17:45:18 *** jrambo [~jrambo@77-46-208-101.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:23 <Alberth> It's a pity they didn't use "a b c: ..." for that 17:46:03 <frosch123> i have such a beast at work :p "a b c: d" 17:46:33 <frosch123> it works fine most of the times, but when using "-j" it may happen to be executed in parallel, in which cases the output will be corrupted :p 17:47:25 <frosch123> (i don't care that if the output is done multiple times, it's only a small part of way more; but conflicting writes break it all :p) 17:56:13 *** MTsPony [~marctraid@076-010-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 17:59:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:03:37 *** Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@186.212.213.208] has joined #openttd 18:03:50 <frosch123> hrmm... 18:04:17 <frosch123> sometimes a single letter is important for a program :/ 18:06:53 <juzza1> this works? http://pastebin.com/SAJJpzAJ 18:09:11 <frosch123> likely says there is no rule to make bar.b or something 18:09:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:10:35 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.9.15.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:10:57 <andythenorth> Alberth: thatâs the most succinct explanation Iâve seen 18:11:29 <Alberth> yep, I dropped all the non-basic stuff :) 18:12:43 <andythenorth> every tutorial Iâve seen is focussed on (1) why you need to do this (I know why) (2) syntax (I can look that up) :P 18:13:26 <andythenorth> maybe there is an untapped market for tutorials: [Language] For Special Kind of Dummies 18:14:37 <frosch123> problem with make is that it is done by c programmers :) 18:14:40 <andythenorth> point 3 is the one I never previously understood 18:14:43 <juzza1> frosch123: true, it doesnt work if only bar.b is missing but foo.a isn't 18:14:46 <Alberth> hmm, skip my first step then, as it explains syntax :p 18:15:11 <andythenorth> point 2 I needed, point 3 is like a revelation 18:19:16 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@91.180.87.168] has joined #openttd 18:27:36 *** steili [~oftc-webi@c8E6947C1.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 18:28:17 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:38:08 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@91.180.87.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:42:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:49:12 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@91.180.87.168] has joined #openttd 19:03:43 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:05:28 *** Aristide [~quassel@ALyon-156-1-136-74.w90-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:07:41 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-0-12-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined 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*** montalvo_ [~montalvo@88-108-226-108.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [] 20:29:33 *** montalvo [~montalvo@88-105-74-118.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:40:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:55:33 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-0-12-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:56:42 *** Gethiox [~gethiox@2001:41d0:52:500::6c4] has joined #openttd 21:00:28 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.177.174.238.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 21:33:24 *** SkeedR [~SkeedR@cpc38-wolv14-2-0-cust352.16-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:36 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@46.246.119.109] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 21:41:53 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@46.246.119.109] has joined #openttd 22:01:39 <Wolf01> 'night 22:01:46 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:04:35 *** Snail 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