Config
Log for #openttd on 26th August 2014:
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06:10:23  <Sylf> Supercheese: the change looks good on my end
06:10:29  <Supercheese> awesome
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06:17:15  <andythenorth> monsoonal
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15:10:08  <Alberth> o/
15:18:41  <Taede> o/
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15:39:08  <luaduck> is there such a thing as having so many trees on the map that people start lagging / failing to connect
15:39:26  <luaduck> someone turned the entirety of the map on reddit S1 into a forest and people are failing to connect
15:41:34  <Alberth> for a sufficiently insane map size, I can imagine that to happen
15:41:53  <Alberth> game must have been close to the breaking point though, I think
15:42:13  <luaduck> we're 1024x2048 right now
15:42:38  <Alberth> that's not that insane :)
15:42:55  <luaduck> so I don't know why it's so laggy
15:43:12  <Alberth> coop uses 1024x1024 as max size
15:43:12  <luaduck> client lag, not server lag
15:43:25  <Alberth> sprite cache?
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15:43:37  <luaduck> maybe
15:43:39  <luaduck> I'm not too laggy
15:43:44  <luaduck> was a bit slow on initial map load
15:43:55  <luaduck> lots of people are complaining about slowdowns though
15:44:38  <Alberth> newer machines aren't that fast any more, since manufacturers concentrate on greenness
15:45:12  <luaduck> I'm on an i7
15:45:17  <luaduck> people on i5's are complaining
15:45:27  <Alberth> also people buy machines with lots of cores, which is mostly useless with openttd
15:45:32  <luaduck> I doubt an i5 is going to be that much more sad
15:45:45  * Alberth doesn't knwo
15:45:50  <Alberth> *know
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15:46:19  <luaduck> I'll make a save of the map to reflect on
15:46:34  <luaduck> need to reset the map really, this is silly
15:46:42  <Alberth> one of the problems is that people have to keep up with the server, but the server has actually less to do than a client
15:47:02  <Alberth> so if you have a fast server, the clients must be even faster
15:55:46  <keoz> Just rewrite all the multiplayer architecture.
15:55:54  <keoz> What are you waiting for ? :)
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16:00:48  <Alberth> has been tried, doesn't work
16:01:06  <Alberth> unless you give up multiplayer
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16:04:28  <Alberth> hi andy
16:04:49  <andythenorth> hi hi
16:05:10  <andythenorth> so how would Iron Horse users learn about Termite?
16:05:24  <andythenorth> popping up a red-box message on game start would be very annoying
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16:07:35  <Alberth> add newobjects with an advertising sign :p
16:08:05  <andythenorth> add an advert vehicle to buy menu :P
16:08:15  <Alberth> add a little extra something which is only available if you also have termite
16:08:57  <Alberth> display additional text in the firs industries window
16:09:10  <andythenorth> add a plane with a banner?
16:09:20  <andythenorth> buy ads on tt-forums?
16:10:39  <Alberth> extend the web frontend for distributing favorite newgrf combinations
16:11:10  <Alberth> have a screenshot competition for iron horse + termite
16:11:36  <Alberth> or rather coopetition :p
16:12:44  * andythenorth wonders what ‘dependencies’ do in banananaans
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16:13:15  <keoz> andythenorth add a plane with a banner? <== i like that one
16:13:43  <Alberth> I think they cause other stuff to be added when you select something. It's used for ai/game scripts that need libraries
16:14:16  <Alberth> make something for a 3-year old, and forget about it
16:14:28  <keoz> That's it. Like my GS using Zuu's SuperLib.
16:15:33  <keoz> Musa is better to define dependencies though. IIRC, Bananas interface only allow linking to last versions.
16:17:06  <Alberth> write a mega good game script that requires termite
16:17:44  <keoz> Why would you enforce using Termite, anyway ? There are other nice tracksets, like NuTracks.
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16:19:59  <keoz> Ok. New french government. Announced now.
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16:50:17  <andythenorth> if I wanted to enforce using Termite it would just be in Iron Horse ;)
16:59:09  <Alberth> add it, and add a parameter to disable it :p
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17:05:58  <andythenorth> :P
17:06:07  <andythenorth> apparently that is the Wrong Thing to Do
17:06:14  <andythenorth> even though it’s my preferred option :P
17:11:17  <keoz> I still didn't try this termite stuff. Is it better than NuTracks ?
17:11:36  <Alberth> of course it is
17:11:40  <andythenorth> everything is
17:11:44  <andythenorth> including no track grf
17:11:46  <Alberth> it's awesome
17:11:56  <andythenorth> everything is awesome
17:13:40  <Alberth> default opengfx monorail is quite broken :)
17:14:10  <andythenorth> not awesome
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17:14:59  <Alberth> but what's the point of using a track grf? just nice eye candy?
17:15:16  <keoz> Sure.
17:15:21  <keoz> Eyecandy is good.
17:15:57  <Alberth> tbh, I  cannot be bothered much about it :)
17:16:21  <andythenorth> within reason, more track types = more interesting route building
17:16:22  <Alberth> I just like to build networks with smoothly running trains
17:16:34  <keoz> I wasn't also initially. Just builded up the biggest possible networks.
17:16:37  <keoz> And then,
17:16:41  <keoz> and then,
17:16:44  <keoz> and then ...
17:16:47  <andythenorth> Iron Horse metro has insane pax capacity, but requires dedicated tracks
17:16:59  <keoz> I discovered Badger's screenshots :)
17:17:11  <Alberth> oops :p
17:17:20  <andythenorth> what has been seen can’t be unseen :P
17:17:30  <keoz> And hence a completely other way to play OTTD. Not big networks, but pretty networks.
17:18:03  <Alberth> I also don't build really big networks, I hardly ever reach LLRR
17:18:11  <keoz> I think I can't add more GRF's in my list. Limit reached :p
17:19:06  <keoz> (And still worst. I don't stop reloading them to try new stuff/new versions. I know. It's bad. :p )
17:26:45  * andythenorth fixes Termite costs
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17:53:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember ever building LLRR
17:53:51  <Eddi|zuHause> if at all, i build LRLR
17:53:52  <luaduck> is there a list of company colours available
17:54:01  <luaduck> ie RGB values
17:54:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd look in src/table
17:54:15  <luaduck> trying to match company colours to the data that the admin port spits out
17:54:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but newgrfs may change them
17:54:58  <luaduck> the defaults are fine
17:55:14  <luaduck> actually if that's the case
17:55:20  <luaduck> then surely opengfx are setting them
17:56:26  <luaduck> there's palette.h but that's not very clear
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17:59:42  <Taede> are you just trying to derive colourname from the number?
17:59:43  <Wolf01> hi hi
17:59:52  <Alberth> hi hi
18:00:36  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: why not LLRR ?
18:01:19  <Alberth> never considered LRLR, wondering why that's better
18:11:39  <Rubidium> 'cause that's how DB does it?
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18:13:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it goes more natural with merging lines and separating types of traffic
18:14:44  <Alberth> you merge to one of the L, or to both?
18:15:09  <Alberth> (or R, of course)
18:16:28  <Alberth> Rubidium: oh, never considered that one would want to copy RL, stupid me
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18:52:41  <luaduck> Taede: yup
18:52:48  <luaduck> (sorry, broke for tea)
18:55:12  <Taede> https://github.com/Xaroth/libottdadmin2/blob/master/libottdadmin2/enums.py <-- last 20 lines or so
18:55:41  <Taede> that and a small function in soaputils is what soap uses to print it in irc
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18:59:38  <Alberth> andythenorth: termite pops up when you look for "iron" in the newgrf download, that's quite advertise-y  :)
19:01:23  <andythenorth> spose :)
19:01:40  <andythenorth> dunno if you’d know what it was though :)
19:02:44  <Alberth> It says "rail types for iron horse train set"
19:03:00  <Alberth> it's a pity we don't have pictures
19:04:23  <luaduck> Taede, wouldn't happen to know if there's a list of actual colour values?
19:06:22  <Taede> not that i've come across
19:06:44  <Alberth> looks like the 16 colours of the universe :p
19:22:17  <luaduck> well I'm stumped
19:22:22  <luaduck> I can't see it in the opengfx sprite list
19:22:30  <luaduck> nor can I see any RGB codes in the openttd sauce
19:25:15  <luaduck> thinking about it, openttd source must have the colours in data somewhere for the graph
19:26:07  <Alberth> it may load them from the base set or so
19:28:00  <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/ttdpalette.txt <- you can find the colour values in there
19:28:22  <frosch123> there is not a single company colour, but a gradient of 8
19:30:30  <luaduck> are those in SDL color coding or something
19:31:20  <frosch123> the palette at the beginning uses standard rgb codes in html notation
19:31:35  <frosch123> the recolour palettes use hex indices into that palette
19:31:40  <luaduck> interesting
19:33:01  <frosch123> e.g. "pale green" company colour uses colours "60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67", which in rgb means "#103418 #20482C #386048 #4C7458 #60886C #78A488 #98C0A8 #B8DCC8"
19:33:43  <luaduck> wait so I have to combine those colours or what
19:34:19  <frosch123> look for "First Company Color" in that file
19:34:31  <luaduck> yup I'm looking at it now
19:34:35  <frosch123> you will find something that defines 8 two-digit hex-numbers for each colour
19:34:49  <frosch123> those hex-numbers are indices into the palette at the top
19:34:54  <Alberth> trains etc have shades, so you have different gradients for different shades
19:34:56  <luaduck> ok so all those values refer to a palette
19:35:15  <luaduck> what I'm after is the colours that the company colour selector uses
19:35:26  <frosch123> that also uses shades
19:35:33  <frosch123> doesn't it use the bus sprite?
19:35:36  <luaduck> oh this is going to be fun
19:35:42  <luaduck> the GUI colour
19:35:52  <luaduck> I don't need individual vehicle colours
19:36:19  <Wolf01> how do I forbid trains to pass on a waypoint?
19:36:28  <luaduck> it's just so that I can format the colours outside the game
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19:36:50  <frosch123> the, the title bar of windows uses colour 4 (starting from 0) of each gradient
19:37:09  <frosch123> GfxFillRect(r.left + 2, r.top + 2, r.right - 2, r.bottom - 2, _colour_gradient[_company_colours[owner]][4]); <- from DrawCaption
19:37:24  <luaduck> awesome
19:37:26  <luaduck> that's what I was after
19:40:04  <Alberth> this->colours[numd] = _colour_gradient[c->colour][6];   <-- graph_gui.cpp, line 599
19:41:56  <Alberth> Wolf01: you don't afaik, you can only add another way point they must pass :(
19:42:49  <Alberth> unless you use incompatible tracks for the original waypoint :p
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19:44:56  <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> how do I forbid trains to pass on a waypoint? <-- if you use a station instead of a waypoint, they try to avoid it if it's not their current order
19:45:34  <Wolf01> np, just moved one tile away the station
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19:53:54  <Wolf01> nice, ottd is the only game I own which automatically switches to the headset when I connect it
20:01:30  <andythenorth> boring forum is boring
20:01:34  * andythenorth fiddles with pixels
20:01:42  <andythenorth> maybe release something else
20:01:48  <andythenorth> haven’t released anything for ages
20:03:28  <Rubidium> Wolf01: I doubt that's OpenTTD's doing ;)
20:14:01  <andythenorth> someone should list some more BAD FEATURES
20:25:53  <frosch123> trains
20:26:05  <frosch123> they make rv, ships and aircraft look bad
20:26:27  <frosch123> so the actual issue is with trains, isn't it?
20:27:18  * Rubidium has found a nice paper for the next person wanting to offload stuff to the server: http://www.revistaie.ase.ro/content/68/01%20-%20Olteanu,%20Tapus.pdf
20:27:51  <andythenorth> ha ha, symmetrical trains are so easy to draw
20:27:56  <andythenorth> like shooting fish in a barrel
20:28:04  <andythenorth> FISH is not like shooting fish in a barrel
20:28:52  <frosch123> Rubidium: is that about connecting 1M cell phones to form a ottd server? :p
20:29:21  <Rubidium> no, about offloading stuff from your slow mobile phone to the fast server
20:30:12  <Rubidium> basically the only thing where it makes sense is: running AIs. Doing the simulation on the server is discredited in about one sentence
20:30:21  <frosch123> ah, they are developing an x server for cellphones
20:31:59  <frosch123> oh noes, i didn't dare to search for "openttd" in the document ... now i did
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20:50:45  <andythenorth> how much should wagons cost to run?
20:50:48  <andythenorth> also buy :P
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20:54:36  <andythenorth> V453000: ^ ?
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20:56:51  <andythenorth> bah
20:56:55  <andythenorth> nobody cares :)
20:57:40  <frosch123> my unwritten blog about costs says: low purchase costs, high running costs
20:58:27  <andythenorth> I might scale purchase cost by capacity
20:58:32  <andythenorth> and run cost by wagon speed
20:58:43  <frosch123> with an initial loan of say 200£ you should be able to build 15 trains for 5 tile length
20:58:43  <andythenorth> and that will do
20:59:17  <frosch123> difficulty is controlled by running costs
20:59:28  <frosch123> boredom is controlled by purchase costs
20:59:43  <andythenorth> hmm
20:59:52  <andythenorth> you get 3 IH trains for £200k
21:00:21  <frosch123> how long do you have to read irc on fast forward till you can buy the 4th?
21:00:47  <andythenorth> depends how profitable your route is :P
21:01:09  <frosch123> the route that you can build with the other 300k starting loan
21:01:37  <andythenorth> interesting test :)
21:01:51  <andythenorth> my IH games did not have money as a problem
21:02:01  <andythenorth> but I only play SV or NCG :P
21:02:03  *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:02:20  <andythenorth> I didn’t have to ffwd much
21:03:20  <andythenorth> frosch123: you have a blag?
21:03:22  <andythenorth> o_O
21:03:47  <frosch123> an unwritten one
21:09:16  * andythenorth bed time :)
21:09:18  <andythenorth> bye
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21:40:27  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:43:49  <Eddi|zuHause>  <frosch123> with an initial loan of say 200£ you should be able to build 15 trains for 5 tile length <-- 15 sounds a little high. also, i'd say not ALL trains should cost that low. a cheap low-end alround engine should cost that low, but a specialized high power or fast engine doesn't need to be purchased with the starting loan
21:44:32  <frosch123> yah, maybe 8 is also fine :p
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21:50:27  <Nemoder> is day length hard coded?
21:53:52  <frosch123> that depends on your latitude
21:53:58  <frosch123> in some places it varies a lot
21:54:44  <Nemoder> :|
22:11:04  <frosch123> night
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