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Log for #openttd on 12th October 2014:
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00:01:23  *** tycoondemon2 [~ashnohoe@D97BA869.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
00:03:55  <Supercheese> Hee, https://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Format_of_langfiles#genders_special_string has had Latin as an example since 2006
00:03:57  *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97BA869.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:03:59  <Supercheese> 8 years later...
00:06:30  <Supercheese> Hmm, Webtranslator is still saying read-only
00:07:31  <Supercheese> Perhaps it needs to do an initial commit
00:24:36  *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-4db0f27e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:27:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: well, there was a piglatin translation back then :p
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01:12:17  <argoneus> good night, train friends
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05:18:16  <Pikka> so, what sprites is the base set missing in the nightly?
05:45:28  <Supercheese> uhh, are there any?
05:45:38  <Pikka> allegedly
05:46:48  * Supercheese sees no such warning
05:47:06  <Supercheese> Just compiled, haven't changed anything but the lang files and .exe
05:47:25  <Supercheese> last time I updated base sets was many revisions ago
05:47:39  <Pikka> how many?
05:47:45  <Supercheese> let me see...
05:47:50  <Pikka> I don't know how old my previous nightly was. perhaps a bit old. :)
05:48:10  <Supercheese> Well, file modified date is 23 September
05:48:43  <Supercheese> hmm
06:02:39  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
06:03:50  <Pikka> innit though
06:06:50  <V453000> hm, my pc crashed when commiting a change, so hg doesnt know it, but there are some remains of it, it told me to do hg recover, which I did, but it failed and said "ValueError: too many values to unpack". What do I do?
06:06:59  <V453000> cant commit and cant seem to be able to recover either
06:07:07  <Pikka> cry?
06:07:09  <V453000> wreck the repo and pull it as a whole again?
06:08:49  <V453000> btw Pikka you dared to contribute to the damned thread where nobody replies to your pictures XD
06:09:08  <Pikka> huh?
06:09:40  <V453000> just making fun of the fact that the yeti thread gets no attention even if you add images to it :P
06:10:35  <Pikka> oh :)
06:13:43  *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:14:06  <andythenorth> huzzah
06:14:24  <Pikka> you filthy swine you
06:14:36  <Pikka> heard from dan, btw :) he's on it.
06:18:10  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd
06:19:18  <andythenorth> V453000: rename the repo, pull a new copy
06:19:26  <andythenorth> merge your missing changes across manually
06:19:38  <V453000> I moved my repo on another disk, removed the old one, pulling now
06:19:42  <V453000> that works?
06:19:44  <V453000> thanks :)
06:19:58  <V453000> I just have new sprites which I can copy over later
06:20:17  <andythenorth> I have repos like firs, firs.old, firs.new, firs.borked, firs.fix_case_sensitive_filesystem
06:20:22  <andythenorth> if in doubt, pull a new one :P
06:20:25  <V453000> XD
06:20:38  <V453000> kay
06:20:52  <V453000> except pulling a yeti repo is like 4gb or something :P
06:20:53  <andythenorth> hg works self contained within the folder
06:21:04  <andythenorth> you can move the folder around and rename the folder
06:21:23  <V453000> well I also made hg forget that repo
06:26:51  * andythenorth should really fix FIRS
06:26:59  <Pikka> is it broken?
06:27:05  <andythenorth> yair
06:27:08  <andythenorth> it’s just annoying to play
06:27:22  <andythenorth> supplies crap
06:27:30  <Pikka> what you should do
06:27:34  <Pikka> is just tweak it slightly
06:27:47  <andythenorth> well
06:27:50  <andythenorth> I have ideas
06:27:50  <Pikka> until it's identical to my planned industry set
06:27:51  <andythenorth> do you?
06:27:56  <Pikka> then I don't have to make it
06:27:58  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit []
06:27:58  <andythenorth> oic
06:28:00  <andythenorth> well
06:28:08  <andythenorth> what is your planned set looking like this week?
06:28:09  <andythenorth> o_O
06:28:38  <Pikka> particularly re supplies, I was planning to have just fmsp and ensp
06:28:58  <Pikka> all coming out of the same factory, which is powered by goods
06:29:11  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@89.246.189.4] has joined #openttd
06:29:26  <Pikka> so it's a little less fiddly than FIRS, but a little more.. something.. than YETI
06:29:41  <Pikka> I don't know if it will work though because I haven't actually gotten around to doing anything with it :)
06:29:54  <andythenorth> and what effect do the supplies have?
06:30:01  <Pikka> good question
06:30:31  <andythenorth> current FIRS has a small problem with supplies
06:30:41  <andythenorth> due to an oversight
06:31:06  <Pikka> inconcievable
06:31:41  <andythenorth> I made it for playing multi-player coop nocargoal games
06:31:44  <andythenorth> and that only
06:31:53  <andythenorth> because that’s what we were doing then
06:31:54  <andythenorth> :P
06:33:19  <andythenorth> the 4x production boost is BAD FEATURE
06:33:36  <Pikka> it's a bit OTT, perhaps
06:33:49  <Pikka> especially combined with the cheaty station ratings
06:33:59  <andythenorth> yeah, I don’t bother with those any more :)
06:34:44  * andythenorth considers scorched earth rewrite of FIRS
06:34:50  <Pikka> :D
06:34:53  <Pikka> it worked for NARS
06:35:02  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.176.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:35:18  <andythenorth> what’s wrong with default industry behaviour anyway?
06:35:27  <Pikka> rather boring?
06:38:36  <andythenorth> getting the ratings up used to bug me
06:38:48  <andythenorth> one coal mine with a 20 track maglev ro-ro
06:38:54  <andythenorth> just to keep high ratings
06:39:54  <Pikka> ye olde "100% is nominal, anything less is failure" syndrome
06:40:54  <andythenorth> I hate that :P
06:44:37  <andythenorth> been thinking for a long time about having FIRS listen to random prod. change cb
06:45:02  <Pikka> hmm
06:45:22  <Pikka> perhaps. but not the default doubling/halving, that's too much.
06:45:29  <andythenorth> yeah
06:45:35  <andythenorth> just increase / decrease by one
06:46:06  <andythenorth> one might not be enough
06:46:34  <Pikka> increase / decrease by teatime
06:48:27  <andythenorth> deliver tea for production boost
06:48:32  <andythenorth> sugar in yer peas
06:50:39  * andythenorth wonders how YETI works
06:50:44  <andythenorth> other than by WTF?
06:52:20  *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd
06:52:40  <V453000> produce_256 callback
06:52:41  <V453000> all of it
06:52:42  <V453000> works great
06:52:48  <V453000> super dynamic production
06:54:25  <V453000> have a game with yeti and see how it works :)
06:56:51  <andythenorth> V453000: what do you hate most about FIRS supply handling?
06:57:16  <V453000> probably not much about the supply handling, main problem is that some cargoes are useless
06:57:40  <V453000> sure, it could be better, the produce_256 allows for a lot more freedom for the player, but in general it works fine reall
06:57:40  <andythenorth> overly-cargoed
06:57:43  <V453000> no
06:57:47  <V453000> useless cargoes
06:57:53  <V453000> as I said countless times, oil/metal wins. :)
06:58:19  <andythenorth> unfortunate lesson in realism :(
06:58:37  <V453000> there are still a lot of ways to change it :)
06:58:59  <andythenorth> I dunno, I can’t see past the stupid way supplies work atm
06:59:44  <V453000> why stupid?
06:59:54  <andythenorth> - supplies are never where you want them
07:00:06  <andythenorth> - have to drag tiny amounts of cargo clear across the map
07:00:18  <andythenorth> - supplies are tedious if you have no planes available
07:00:22  <andythenorth> - 4x boost is too much
07:00:28  <andythenorth> - deadlocks easily
07:00:38  <V453000> 4x boost isnt too much
07:00:42  <V453000> tedious, yes, rewarding, yes
07:00:49  <V453000> farms are less rewarding (noted beforehand)
07:01:01  <V453000> deadlocks easily = bad network, not newgrf fault
07:01:13  <V453000> dragging tiny amount of cargo across the map is player choice
07:01:24  <andythenorth> hmm
07:01:29  <V453000> the only issue I see is that industries are DISCRIMINATED :)
07:01:30  <andythenorth> the deadlocks aren’t always the network
07:01:36  <andythenorth> depending what cdist does
07:01:44  <andythenorth> I have deadlocks in my current game
07:01:56  <andythenorth> with 100s of tonnes supplies waiting at source station, but not routed
07:02:04  <V453000> when I played 1 game with cdist/FIRS, the supplies didnt even want to go to farms
07:02:06  <andythenorth> so production falls to 1x
07:02:11  <V453000> I dont think cdist is a good idea with FIRS at all
07:02:25  <V453000> you are supposed do deliver exactly 84 or how much it was ES per month
07:02:29  <V453000> to every industry
07:02:41  <V453000> mixing cdist into it is just destructive
07:02:45  <andythenorth> well
07:02:48  <andythenorth> cdist is just a fact now
07:02:55  <andythenorth> so FIRS should change to suit it
07:03:02  <V453000> PS remember this? :D https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ke680mgjnnfpq8/FIRS_WTF1-01.png?dl=0
07:03:06  <V453000> it isnt
07:03:11  <V453000> it is just a fact for noobs and idiots
07:03:31  <V453000> which has nothing to do with functional newgrf :P
07:03:39  <andythenorth> it’s a fact in my games
07:03:47  <V453000> ok :D
07:04:01  <andythenorth> I’m back where I always end up
07:04:03  <andythenorth> remove supplies
07:04:19  <V453000> and what then? same mechanism as original industries?
07:04:38  <Pikka> maybe I should make industries my next priority so I can play around with supplies mechanisms D:
07:04:57  <andythenorth> maybe :P
07:05:06  <andythenorth> now the zellepins are done and NARS is nearly done
07:05:26  * andythenorth never forgets that supplies were invented to allow these to be added http://www.olli80.de/2006/0627_006.jpg
07:07:18  * Pikka also wants to write an AI which understands supplies
07:07:23  <Pikka> then it can explain them to the rest of us
07:13:20  <V453000> I still support the notion of actually having an idea about functionality when creating a newgrf :P
07:13:42  <Pikka> sure, but sometimes you need to experiment
07:14:26  <V453000> of course :)
07:14:37  <V453000> general idea/ scheme helps
07:23:22  <andythenorth> I had no idea about FIRS
07:23:31  <andythenorth> I just wanted an excuse for HEQS
07:24:52  <andythenorth> hey look
07:24:59  <andythenorth> my friend drives this train sometimes http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=501650&nseq=2
07:25:42  <andythenorth> also one for V453000 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=501603&nseq=20
07:26:17  <V453000> brauerei = brewery?
07:27:21  <andythenorth> beer car
07:29:31  <andythenorth> why does industry production change at all?
07:29:38  <andythenorth> why not steady state?
07:30:13  <Pikka> also a good question
07:31:00  <liq3> What I don't understand is why industries in FIRS can't store up supplies, and just use 84 every 3 months.
07:31:34  <andythenorth> they could
07:31:39  <andythenorth> would it be good?
07:31:54  <liq3> It'd allow less frequent trips of larger trains.
07:32:09  <andythenorth> well
07:32:17  <andythenorth> is that good?
07:32:21  <V453000> worse
07:32:23  <V453000> only player laziness
07:32:35  <V453000> but it isnt utterly bad
07:32:49  <andythenorth> is against the set goals
07:32:53  <andythenorth> but maybe the set goals are bad
07:32:59  <V453000> though dumping a 10 tile train at a tiny farm sounds like it should be discouraged
07:33:20  <liq3> Well, the other way is allowing you to unload a specific amount.
07:33:26  <liq3> but OTTD doesn't have that feature.
07:33:34  <V453000> it does
07:33:38  <liq3> it does?
07:33:39  <V453000> simply build trains with that capacity
07:33:43  <liq3> .........
07:33:46  <liq3> Doesn't have that feature.
07:33:46  <liq3> ;p
07:33:48  <V453000> e.g. NUTS has many ways to get 84 supplies
07:33:58  <V453000> or the other numbers
07:34:09  <andythenorth> it was a goal of FIRS to rebalance away from trains
07:34:11  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE
07:34:16  <V453000> what is wrong with building a train with the right capacity and sending there one per month?
07:34:19  <liq3> The only way I can think of is to use a station as storage, and have a tiny network move around 84 supplies every 3 months.
07:34:30  <V453000> ok one per 3 months
07:34:32  <V453000> even easier
07:34:44  <andythenorth> it’s ‘supposed’ to be done with transfer stations and trucks or helis
07:34:50  <liq3> I'm playing a server where I can't afford a fast locomotive for a 84 cargo train.
07:35:04  <V453000> yes, you can do transfer "storage" or deliver it straight from the machine shop
07:35:15  <V453000> well then you are playing on a bad server :) that has nothing to do with firs
07:35:22  <V453000> or openttd features
07:35:26  <liq3> shrug. I barely understand why OpenTTD even has money.
07:35:34  <V453000> valid point
07:35:45  <V453000> still, if RVs or something are an option, then transfer -> RV is probably a thing
07:35:56  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE
07:36:02  <andythenorth> but the stockpiling thing, ugh
07:36:12  <andythenorth> 1 ship, every 2 years
07:36:20  <liq3> It'd be a work around due to OpenTTD's lacking a "unload 84 supplies" feature.
07:36:23  <andythenorth> I don’t even know how to timetable that
07:36:30  <andythenorth> wait at station for 400 days :P
07:36:31  <V453000> it would not liq3
07:36:43  <liq3> ? I mean using a station as storage.
07:36:54  <V453000> just solve the situation, that is the openttd feature
07:36:58  <V453000> having the game do it for you is not
07:37:10  <liq3> I've already solved it...?
07:37:19  <V453000> well then dont complain there is a missing feature :)
07:37:22  <liq3> you have a truck/train move about 5 tiles every 3 months.
07:37:34  <liq3> bleh. :P
07:38:21  <andythenorth> V453000: what is so ugh about stockpiles?
07:38:26  <andythenorth> I get asked for it often
07:38:31  <andythenorth> but something is all wrong about it
07:38:47  <V453000> having to deliver in intervals is about the most interesting thing on firs
07:38:54  <V453000> you have to care, not just dump
07:38:58  <andythenorth> stockpiling isn’t transport
07:39:04  <V453000> basically yes
07:39:05  <andythenorth> game is a transport game
07:39:32  <V453000> yeti doesnt care how much you dump (yet)
07:39:39  <V453000> but higher amount of cargo will be less efficient
07:39:45  <andythenorth> the amounts are irrelevant imho
07:39:59  <andythenorth> it’s just a flag that ‘vehicle carrying x’ has visited a nearby station
07:40:12  <V453000> they arent, if you make some non-linear mechanism in the sense that the more you dump, the less efficient it is, you are motivated to dump to multiple spots
07:41:23  <andythenorth> supplies should just have been electricity
07:41:25  <andythenorth> and be done with it
07:41:31  <andythenorth> but that isn’t possible
07:42:14  <V453000> how would that change the way they work? XD
07:42:23  <andythenorth> check nearby power station
07:42:26  <V453000> PS in NUTS they are batteries :P as close as it can get to electricity
07:42:32  <liq3> lol
07:42:57  <andythenorth> if electricity within 32 tiles, produce more
07:42:58  <V453000> well check nearby power station, but how often, by what amount, ... that would be the same
07:43:10  <andythenorth> can dump as much as you like into the power station
07:43:27  <andythenorth> none of this pissing about routing individual trucks to individual farms
07:43:29  <V453000> that would mean 1 unit of electricity is enough, that isnt very nice :P
07:43:48  <V453000> you could make farms one big farm, same output
07:43:54  <V453000> also delivering to one industry
07:45:02  <andythenorth> electric farms
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07:56:19  <Supercheese> toyland has battery farms
07:57:40  <planetmaker> moin
07:57:46  <Pikka> moin
07:58:06  *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:01:11  <V453000> ok I clearly pulled the repository wrongly  :D there is some -1 revision ... how do I get rid of that?
08:01:26  <V453000> apart from it, the local directory seems to be empty
08:01:35  <V453000> yet there are the 150 other commits visible in hg
08:01:37  <V453000> hi pm :)
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08:02:37  <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/hgwtf01.png
08:02:43  <V453000> what do?
08:04:25  <V453000> hm apparently it didnt really pull
08:04:35  <V453000> but why does it write the commits in the list ._.
08:05:31  <planetmaker> V453000, you cloned. But you didn't update. Just update to the rev you need
08:05:51  <planetmaker> -1 is the "1st" revision when there is not yet anything in a newly created repo
08:06:11  <V453000> I just removed/forget the old repository and tried to pull a new one
08:06:20  <V453000> uhm how does one update? :)
08:06:25  <planetmaker> hg update
08:06:47  <planetmaker> don't ask me about the button in thg :)
08:07:26  <V453000> :d
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08:07:40  <V453000> hm
08:07:48  <V453000> guess I should remove it again and try one mroe time
08:07:50  <planetmaker> you could probably simply try to get the context menu for rev 150
08:07:54  <planetmaker> don't
08:07:55  <V453000> did update, updated 0, 0, 0, ...
08:08:09  <planetmaker> eh?
08:08:21  <V453000> I just broke it again apparently by commiting the first -1
08:08:58  <planetmaker> you didn't exactly break it. But that might get tricky to get sensibly merged
08:09:19  <planetmaker> hg rollback
08:09:23  <planetmaker> hg up -r150
08:09:41  <V453000> unknown revision 150 :D
08:10:01  <planetmaker> eh?
08:10:09  <V453000> lets just remove everything and do it again
08:10:23  <planetmaker> well. You will then loose the changes you made the rev -1
08:10:29  <V453000> there are none
08:10:38  <planetmaker> there are
08:10:39  <V453000> I got sprites backed up so that should be fine :)
08:11:42  <V453000> ok, so got a clean repository, 1. pull changes, 2. update?
08:12:15  <planetmaker> of course
08:12:21  <planetmaker> err. no
08:12:26  <planetmaker> *clone* the repository
08:12:30  <planetmaker> not create new
08:12:39  <V453000> I removed it, there is nothing to clone
08:12:45  <planetmaker> of course there is
08:12:46  <V453000> or, like clone from hg@hg.oo
08:12:54  <planetmaker> you can only clone a remote repository
08:12:56  <planetmaker> yes, that
08:12:59  <V453000> aha
08:13:14  <planetmaker> (of course you can also clone local repos)
08:14:09  <V453000> hg@hg.openttdcoop.org\yeti this right
08:14:19  <planetmaker>  /
08:14:22  <V453000> :D
08:14:39  <planetmaker> bloody windoze user ;)
08:14:45  <V453000> neither works :D
08:14:56  <planetmaker> ssh://hg@hg.openttdcoop.org/yeti
08:14:58  <V453000> aha
08:15:15  <V453000> itz running :)
08:15:24  <planetmaker> alternatively you can clone via https://hg.openttdcoop.org/yeti
08:15:26  <V453000> I hope it doesnt mean ruining
08:15:36  <planetmaker> you only ruin bandwidth :P
08:15:43  <V453000> XD
08:15:51  <V453000> fine, lets see what will it do now
08:15:57  <V453000> do I need to do anything after the cloning?
08:16:50  <planetmaker> if you cloned via ssh://... you should automatically push to the right place. Check that you have checked-out the newest rev, tip. Which probably is r150
08:17:08  <V453000> ok :)
08:17:10  <V453000> thanks so much
08:17:15  <planetmaker> no worries
08:18:17  <V453000> hm this will probably take a while :>
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08:35:15  <peter1138> hmm, so zbase
08:38:12  *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has joined #openttd
08:42:22  <peter1138> hmm, and biggui :p
08:42:42  <Pikka> hmmso.
08:47:24  <Rubidium> peter1138: for zbase I could imagine moving the 32bpp double size sprites to x2
08:47:41  <planetmaker> peter1138, don't worry about zBase providing too big sprites... Just assume that everything a (new)grf currently provides is 1x sprites for GUI
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08:47:48  <planetmaker> same with ogfx+biggui
08:48:07  <planetmaker> breaking those with a zoom-able GUI setting is fine. It's their fault
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08:48:26  <planetmaker> especially as it's not exactly broken. Just fuggly big
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08:55:59  <V453000> ok my SSD is clearly beyond the point of beoken and is unable to copy this amount of data on it without shutting itself down and causing system crash
08:56:09  <V453000> is it possible to make the repository on a different disk? :D
08:56:24  <V453000> and question B, what do I need before migrating to a different machine? just my private key?
08:59:06  <planetmaker> you want to keep both your keys, private and public
08:59:39  <planetmaker> you make a repo on any storage medium where you can write on...
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09:00:47  <V453000> ok :)
09:01:44  <planetmaker> well. and read, too. Those permissions are not necessarily linked :D
09:01:55  <V453000> XD
09:01:56  <V453000> k
09:02:09  <V453000> ok trying to clone to D now :D
09:02:23  <V453000> will have to get a new SSD this week regardless
09:02:25  <V453000> this is just bad
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09:02:40  <planetmaker> is it just missing enough free space?
09:03:29  <supermop> i've got too much free space down here
09:04:05  <V453000> nope
09:04:13  <V453000> it is some issue in the SSD
09:04:32  <V453000> once it gets used (too much), it shuts itself down, probably requests too much power from the source or something
09:07:19  <planetmaker> then you need a bigger power supply
09:07:41  <planetmaker> you could measure the voltage on the input. But... then other things likely would go haywire on your machine concurrently, too
09:07:49  <peter1138> errr
09:08:05  <peter1138> V453000, checked for firmware updates for it?
09:08:12  <peter1138> SSD will not draw too much power
09:08:23  <peter1138> they draw sod all compared to a regular HDD
09:08:35  <planetmaker> true :)
09:10:59  <V453000> the source is 750W
09:11:10  <V453000> that has to be enuf
09:11:11  <andythenorth> does the PC shut down, or the drive?
09:11:20  <V453000> the drive, resulting in BSOD
09:11:26  <V453000> firmware should be latest
09:11:36  <andythenorth> I had a run of macs with bad SATA cables
09:11:42  <V453000> IT semi-humans said get rid of it, buy new
09:12:07  <andythenorth> bad SATA cable can cause random bad
09:12:29  <peter1138> Also check SATA drivers too.
09:12:47  <andythenorth> you probably don’t have a teeny tiny SATA ribbon :P
09:12:49  <V453000> I will just go backup the data that matters now :P
09:12:50  <peter1138> Mind would bluescreen until I found some different version...
09:18:00  <andythenorth> bye
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09:19:00  <peter1138> -d+e
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09:36:45  <peter1138> Weird, this audio CD had 18 tracks last month. This month it has 19, one of which is a data track... o_O
09:37:41  <Rubidium> did you uninstall the sony drm-thingy?
09:38:12  <Rubidium> a.k.a. Sony rootkit
09:39:41  <peter1138> I don't think that runs on Linux.
09:46:13  <Eddi|zuHause> man, i can't press tux+o to find out what track the radio is playing, because it's not amarok :p
09:46:55  <peter1138> There was a very crap quality .mov file on there.
09:48:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose that falls into the same category as pressing "X" on an openttd screenshot
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10:28:23  <peter1138> hmm
10:28:42  <peter1138> Canadian Platforms... did they get sabotaged?
10:28:47  <peter1138> The colours are all messed up.
10:29:18  <__ln__> somebody spilled maple syrup
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10:32:56  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/stationhuh.png
10:33:16  <planetmaker> did you try to flip the palette?
10:33:21  <peter1138> Yes of course.
10:33:34  <peter1138> But... the pixels are double size and totally random colours.
10:33:44  <V453000> nice
10:33:57  <planetmaker> he
10:38:08  <peter1138> Ah well, I can't play with that, and I guess that's the intention. Silly.
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10:40:57  <Wolf01> hi o/
10:48:23  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26996 trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp (2014-10-12 10:48:18 UTC)
10:48:24  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Don't clamp airport construction window size -- this causes very poor performance if the game window is not large enough.
10:48:53  <peter1138> double/quad ui + airport no longer = death
10:49:27  <peter1138> probably the same fix applies to all over automatically resizing windows, but... they're unlikely
10:49:35  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26997 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-12 10:49:29 UTC)
10:49:36  <DorpsGek> -Fix/codechange: use signed integers for TGP's internal map size and X/Y variables due to X/Y in comparisons occasionally getting smaller than 0 due to subtractions
10:54:10  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Canadian Platforms... did they get sabotaged? <-- there were complaints in the forum
10:55:55  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26998 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-12 10:55:49 UTC)
10:55:56  <DorpsGek> -Change: account for the map size when determining the maximum height of the landscape; a 24 high mountain at 64x64 leaves barely any usable space, but on a 4096x4096 it's just a "small" bump (ic111)
10:56:50  <peter1138> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=71291
10:58:14  <peter1138> Heee, yeah, they all have the same grf ID.
10:59:51  <peter1138> oh no they don't, i just can't read
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11:00:01  <Pikkaphone> and did those teeth
11:00:20  <Pikkaphone> in ancient times
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11:02:02  <Eddi|zuHause> "are you my mummy?"
11:04:33  <peter1138> No.
11:06:18  <Eddi|zuHause> do we have any terms of service against actively sabotaging content?
11:07:18  <V453000> that was expectable from OzTrans :)
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11:15:31  <Pikkaphone> ToS against sabotaging content?
11:16:03  <argoneus> good morning train friends
11:16:57  <Pikkaphone> how would you enforce that? :P "quitting is a sackable offense"?
11:17:18  <V453000> sabotaging content is something different from quitting :)
11:18:12  <Pikkaphone> well, he made his content undownloadable, did he? at least it's neat and tidy
11:18:25  <peter1138> Pikkaphone, not quite: http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/stationhuh.png
11:18:29  <V453000> well apparently it is downloadable and broken
11:18:51  <V453000> and I dont think it is possible to make it undownloadable, e.g. savegames with the graphics should be able to request them
11:19:02  <Pikkaphone> yes
11:19:23  <Pikkaphone> but are there any save games with those versions?
11:19:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, as you can easily see in the forums
11:21:02  <Pikkaphone> perhaps they should be removed then :)
11:21:20  <V453000> possible to remove just the last versions?
11:21:54  <Pikkaphone> why not remove the whole lot?
11:22:33  <V453000> the savegames would be broken and people would again be complaining that  they dont have a place to download them
11:22:43  <Eddi|zuHause> well, that's the question: if we have a (legal) tool to terminate his account for sabotaging, we can restore the previous state (i.e. still offer the valid versions), otherwise we can at most disable everything
11:23:18  <Pikkaphone> they can get the grfs the same place they got the save
11:23:35  <Pikkaphone> if they can't, they're not missing much anyway
11:23:52  <Rubidium> IMO we could terminate the account and make the last versions inaccessible from the website but keep the rest accessible if explicitly asked for
11:24:06  <planetmaker> +1 ^
11:24:16  <V453000> makes total sense
11:24:28  <peter1138> Meh, I don't care, just amused that he went to the effort of fucking them up instead of just dropping everything :)
11:24:41  <Pikkaphone> :)
11:24:56  <planetmaker> peter1138, it's more a question to reduce pointless support requests
11:25:04  <V453000> Pikkaphone: save isnt obtained from bananas :P
11:25:41  <Pikkaphone> if you start "restoring" old versions you're just asking for the next round of drama imo. But whatever.
11:26:06  <V453000> but what drama
11:26:18  <Pikkaphone> v : exactly. If someone sends them a save, the person who sent it presumably also has the grfs
11:26:28  <Rubidium> but then: I'm an evil dictator that didn't bother being a dictator on the GRFID matter, which makes me even more evil
11:26:52  <V453000> not necessarily Pikkaphone the save could be on a website which does not provide those files, since it assumes that bananas goesnt go bonkers
11:26:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't even find the bananas terms of service
11:27:22  <peter1138> V453000, probably the old files are still there, in which case that'll work.
11:27:27  <Rubidium> Pikkaphone: I'm definitely not talking about restoring the old ones (they aren't gone, just not visible). I would just suggest making the new "broken" ones not visible as well
11:27:32  <V453000> true
11:27:35  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: google can
11:27:43  <Flygon> Because I'm a fool and completely out of the loop. And at the risk of flaring up drama.
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11:27:46  <Flygon> What the heck happened? O_o
11:27:49  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: http://bananas.openttd.org/en/manager/tos/
11:28:24  <V453000> Flygon: OzTrans made his depart a bit colourful and sabotaged his own newGRFs with new broken versions, is all
11:28:34  <V453000> nothing unexpected from (ex)Simuscape
11:28:51  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26999 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-12 11:28:45 UTC)
11:28:52  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: make the variety distribution automatically scale to the maximum height of the map
11:28:56  <Pikkaphone> he's been sabotaging his grfs for years, but this time it was deliberate :)
11:29:01  <V453000> XD
11:29:03  <supermop> best just to remove/hide all, or leave as is
11:29:07  <Flygon> More to the point: What prompted the "fark you, it's cancelled" style /quit?
11:29:40  <Pikkaphone> opengfx airports and iron horse
11:29:41  <V453000> Flygon: his own idiocy, someone dared create a newGRF that would have grfID starting with the same two letters XD
11:29:42  <planetmaker> <Pikkaphone> if you start "restoring" old versions you're just asking for the next round of drama imo. But whatever.  <-- exactly. Just disable current broken and leave it at that.
11:29:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: a giant ego finally going supernova.
11:30:07  <Flygon> Eddi: Okay, that ties in well with the reference I made
11:30:24  <Flygon> V453000: Gotcha
11:30:30  <Flygon> Arf
11:30:30  <supermop> afterall one could claim that a psychedelic color version was intensional and then proactive reverting by bananas could be (legally?) questionable
11:30:34  <Terkhen> I find it unbelievable that this kind of stuff is still happening
11:30:36  <Flygon> I'll never understand egotists @_@
11:30:48  <Terkhen> one would think that people would get tired of the drama after... what, 5, 6 years?
11:30:56  <Flygon> Terkhen, it's simple
11:31:02  <Flygon> When someone get's involved in something
11:31:07  <planetmaker> drama queens just live for drama :)
11:31:08  <Flygon> They grow emotionally attached
11:31:13  <Flygon> Cue... well
11:31:17  <supermop> but if he said he "no longer makes his work available" or whatever, you could take that as cover to delet or hide from bananas
11:31:18  <Flygon> Literal insanity and obsession
11:31:24  <Flygon> I've been on the sending end of it, trust me
11:31:25  <Flygon> >_<
11:31:35  <Flygon> As in, being too emotionally attached to something
11:31:41  <Rubidium> supermop: the terms of service ask for the upload to grant OpenTTD the rights to distribute it, OpenTTD does not promise anything w.r.t. it being actually distributed
11:31:58  <V453000> Flygon: I require serious amout of respect for what I have been doing around OpenTTD, but that does not mean I demand others to fix what isnt broken and all the stupid shit he did
11:32:11  <V453000> it isnt just about doing things a lot, it is about being a twat
11:32:14  <V453000> simple as that
11:32:21  <Flygon> I know
11:32:23  <Terkhen> I've worked and work in a fair amount of projects and I've never felt the need to engage in drama like this... V just expressed it better than I could :P
11:32:23  <Eddi|zuHause> so... the terms of service only give you permission to openly distribute the "newest" version, so reverting to the older ones is probably out of the question
11:32:39  <Eddi|zuHause> you can still choose to not distribute that "newest" version, anyway.
11:32:43  <supermop> ooh, so then openttd does have the right to distribute *any* verson that has been uploaded? i recall this being an issue with someone else 2-3 years ago
11:32:52  <V453000> Terkhen: <3
11:33:00  <planetmaker> supermop, yes. Under some conditions
11:33:08  <Pikkaphone> probably not someone else
11:33:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, *any* version for the purpose of loading old savegames, *newest* version everywhere else
11:33:17  <Pikkaphone> probably still oztrans
11:33:17  <V453000> XD Pikkaphone wins
11:33:37  <supermop> no, was the other artist
11:33:50  <Flygon> Terkhen: Me being emotionally attached to something far too strongly has lead to me quitting from things that, in hindsight, were at least 40% caused by my own self-obsession.
11:33:55  <supermop> im sure also with oz, but not at a time i saw
11:33:57  <Pikkaphone> there's another artist?
11:33:59  <peter1138> SAC? Her wobbly predates bananas I think.
11:34:06  <supermop> sac indeed
11:34:08  <Flygon> I still say staff corruption and egotism from other staff was the other 60% :U
11:35:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: points 3 and 4 of ToS may miss a few words?
11:35:45  <Eddi|zuHause> "You grant the OpenTTD team [the rights] to"
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11:36:15  <Pikkaphone> the earlier versions won't work with non-ancient versions of openttd anyway
11:36:30  <supermop> wont hiding the work completely  be best for all involved?
11:36:34  <Pikkaphone> of oztrans' grfs that is
11:36:51  <planetmaker> we probably should revise the TOS and remove the word "latest" from clause 3.
11:37:01  <Pikkaphone> so removing just the latest will effectively hide them completely
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11:37:16  <V453000> I think hiding it all, and make it available only upon request by savegame is best.
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11:37:27  <planetmaker> and "the last version of" from clause 2
11:37:28  <supermop> V453000: yeah
11:37:34  <planetmaker> of course that doesn't change the past
11:39:49  <supermop> ive played ottd for 6 years without those grfs, i think we can live without them
11:40:12  <Pikkaphone> especially with new nars. but I didn't say that.
11:40:40  <supermop> and i am sure diehard users out there can dig up an old version on their hdd if they really need to keep working on a 10 year old save
11:40:42  <planetmaker> no-one even heard or read that
11:40:45  <Pikkaphone> the stations might have been nice for the people who like that sorry of thing
11:41:00  <supermop> freudian slip?
11:41:22  <Pikkaphone> telephone keyboard slip
11:41:57  <Pikkaphone> swype / auto correct :)
11:43:09  <supermop> surprised at how much more CA content is out there vis a vis down here... ive only been down here 10 months and i am constantly overwhelmed with things that seem like they'd be cute at TT's scale
11:43:58  <Eddi|zuHause> that sentence did not parse...
11:44:03  <Pikkaphone> get drawing, then :)
11:44:04  <supermop> no it did not
11:44:17  <supermop> i have been,
11:44:21  <planetmaker> Pikka, obviously meant to say "auto wrong" instead of "auto correct" ;)
11:44:34  <supermop> but for money, and in autocad,
11:44:40  <Pikkaphone> prosciutto planetmaker
11:44:59  <supermop> and houses not trains
11:45:36  <Eddi|zuHause> a propos prosciutto...
11:45:44  <supermop> yum
11:46:07  <V453000> just get them through max supermop and you have a town set :P
11:46:17  <Eddi|zuHause> (cue the "english only...")
11:47:06  <supermop> well an old version of rhino is what i have on this computer, but that may do
11:47:52  <supermop> i was thinking of trying revit,, but i don't know how to get a planar rather than perspective projection
11:48:20  <peter1138> orthogonal
11:48:23  <peter1138> Hmm
11:49:52  <Pikkaphone> that's fine, we need more house sets too :)
11:50:17  <Pikkaphone> what trains did you think were cute, though?
11:50:44  <supermop> melborne terrace set perhaps if i can spin it into a bit of an arch. history thesis while im at it
11:51:07  <supermop> i like the new PTV triangle livery, on the trams and EMUs here,
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11:51:18  <supermop> and on the bombardier DMUs
11:51:23  <peter1138> Pikkaphone, baseset ;)
11:51:51  <Pikkaphone> mmmm baseset
11:52:35  <supermop> also cute: how absurdly close together some of the train stations are on the line by me
11:53:04  <Pikkaphone> 32bpp it
11:53:20  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27000 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-12 11:53:13 UTC)
11:53:21  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26999): compilation error with some versions of GCC
11:53:30  <Pikkaphone> be the first to make a full realisms ez set :)
11:53:39  <supermop> haha
11:54:09  <supermop> or just 32bpp of various shades of beige plaster cottages
11:54:33  <Pikkaphone> yep
11:55:21  <Pikkaphone> well, my 32bpp houses are likely to be somewhat Brisbaney
11:56:01  <supermop> i was thinking some queenslanders would be needed to break up the monotony
11:56:28  <supermop> also was up there last week and blown away by some great modern and brutalist stuff
11:57:09  <supermop> that big arts complex on south side of the river has been days of ideal instagram fodder
11:57:21  <Pikkaphone> nobody likes the brutalist stuff, sadly. We do have quite a lot.
11:57:46  <supermop> its just now getting a bit of love in some places
11:58:15  <supermop> but i think its still a niche passion
11:58:34  <supermop> EZ brutalist town set maybe not a big seller...
11:58:40  <Pikkaphone> I forget the name of the architect of qpac/cultural center. He died just earlier this year.
11:58:44  <LordAro> such r27k
11:58:54  <Pikkaphone> doesn't have to be all brutalist :p
11:59:16  <V453000> I will have to think of something suitably unpopular when I start to think about buildings, to keep up the spirit on forums
11:59:20  <supermop> there was a good show on at the library there about brisban mid century architecture too
11:59:22  <Pikkaphone> one of the fun things about a house set is seeing the styles change over the years
11:59:38  <planetmaker> :) yup
11:59:41  <Pikkaphone> yeah, there was :)
12:01:36  <supermop> melboune unfortunately seems to missed most of that compared to brisbane and sydney - i get the feeling in my neighborhood at times that time froze between 1880 and 2006
12:02:35  <supermop> i guess with a town set, if a town grows fast in one era, and then not again until several eras later, you can get that effect to an extent
12:03:06  <peter1138> Dunno, towns do seem to just randomly replace buildings for no reason.
12:04:24  <supermop> maybe a task for GS writers to approximate the planning failures and triumphs of a town over the decades then
12:05:00  <supermop> and just try to include an even distribution of houses over the years regardless
12:05:57  <peter1138> planetmaker, how much work will it be to merge BigGUI into opengfx? :D
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12:06:32  <planetmaker> peter1138, not much
12:06:38  <planetmaker> an evening maybe
12:06:43  <Pikkaphone> Peter: I don't just rely on default town behavior. ;) not in tai, even less in the future.
12:07:23  <Pikkaphone> you can do reasonably complex things with building placement
12:07:51  <Pikkaphone> funny, supermop
12:07:55  <Flygon> supermop: 17 minutes late here, but I prefer V/Line Red-Yellow-Purple over PTV Purple-Yellow Fractals on the VLos D:
12:08:33  <Pikkaphone> most of the plebs around here think Melbourne is the center of styled and sophistication
12:08:44  <Pikkaphone> and Brisbane is dull and ugly
12:08:47  <Flygon> Sophistication?
12:08:52  <Flygon> But we're the home of the Bogan!
12:08:57  <Flygon> And Calder Park Raceway!
12:09:04  <Flygon> And FRANKSTON!
12:09:12  <Flygon> And Melton, and Werribee too!
12:09:20  <Pikkaphone> exactly :D
12:09:27  <supermop> Pikkaphone: its a neat town to be sure, and there are some stylish places -
12:09:27  <Flygon> And dammit
12:09:32  <Flygon> I'm bloody proud of it
12:09:36  <Flygon> B3
12:09:37  <Pikkaphone> lol
12:09:38  <supermop> dont get me wrong i am happy to be here
12:09:44  <Flygon> Former Meltoner. Survived Melton. Aw yis. B3
12:09:55  <Flygon> btw, Meltoners hate Sunshine!
12:10:08  <Flygon> It's like, the one place worse than Melton that's not Frankston D:
12:10:23  <supermop> but brisbane seems like a real undervalued gem to me, especially in terms of architecture
12:10:23  <frosch123> anyone understands fs#6139?
12:10:36  <frosch123> i do not recall peter1138 committing the stuff
12:10:46  <Flygon> supermop: During my visit to Brisbane a few years ago
12:10:50  <Flygon> It was a quite a nice place
12:10:56  <Flygon> But the public transport is way overpriced
12:11:17  <planetmaker> I don't recall that either
12:11:28  <planetmaker> no clue what FS6139 refers to
12:12:29  <michi_cc> @commit 26990
12:12:29  <DorpsGek> michi_cc: Commit by peter1138 :: r26990 /trunk/src (11 files in 4 dirs) (2014-10-11 13:22:37 UTC)
12:12:30  <DorpsGek> michi_cc: -Feature: Add option to choose normal, double or quad-size interface.
12:13:29  <frosch123> oh, peter added a new setting to game options :p
12:13:55  <frosch123> that's not somewhere i would look
12:14:15  <planetmaker> game *options*? Hm.
12:15:00  <planetmaker> rather settings :)
12:15:06  <Pikkaphone> advanced game setting options!
12:15:20  <planetmaker> Pikka, there's no 'advanced' settings anymore :P
12:15:27  <michi_cc> frosch123: It makes sens to have it where the resolution selection is.
12:15:27  <Pikkaphone> I know
12:15:28  <frosch123> well, another item on the list of settigns to remove from game options, and moving to settings
12:15:28  <peter1138> *shrug* that was mostly michi_cc's patch ;p
12:15:45  <peter1138> but yes, what michi_cc said
12:15:52  <planetmaker> mostly options should go to settings :P
12:16:01  <planetmaker> as they're basically the same thing. Just different
12:16:03  <frosch123> yup, i just did not expected anything getting added there
12:16:21  <frosch123> so, when i checked for a new setting, i looked into "settings"
12:16:24  <Pikkaphone> took me a little while to find it :)
12:16:33  <frosch123> i would never have notices something new in "game options" :p
12:17:19  <peter1138> Anyway, most dropdowns contain text, which isn't scaled.
12:17:37  <peter1138> Some dropdowns have images which are scaled
12:17:54  <peter1138> And some dropdowns have checkmarks which are part of the text, thus not scaled.
12:17:58  <planetmaker> right. So (New)GRFs support that via the normal 1x / 2x / 4x alternative sprites?
12:18:14  <peter1138> hmm?
12:18:30  <peter1138> Sure, anything which is not text can have hires sprites.
12:19:13  <Pikkaphone> peter: any ideas why the nightly is complaining about the base set being incomplete? Is it this, or something older?
12:19:23  <peter1138> Well, maybe not the palettes and landscape sprites either :p
12:19:30  <peter1138> Pikkaphone, opengfx?
12:19:35  <Pikkaphone> zbase
12:19:37  <peter1138> (or zbase)
12:19:43  <planetmaker> missing recolour sprite, Pikka
12:19:47  <peter1138> yeah it's missing a sprite :)_
12:20:03  <frosch123> Pikkaphone: check the map border :)
12:20:27  <frosch123> if it looks awesome, you are missing a sprite. if it looks boring normal, your baseset is complete
12:20:58  <Pikkaphone> lol k, I'll check :p is someone updating zbase?
12:21:14  <frosch123> otoh, if you are using 32bpp, then the missing sprite isn't used anyway
12:21:25  <planetmaker> he
12:21:43  <planetmaker> Pikka, it *should* get updated. But no-one did yet
12:21:46  <Pikkaphone> or should I hold out for vbase? yetibase?
12:21:50  <frosch123> i wonder whether we should just generally remove it again
12:21:52  <peter1138> Yeah, technically it could be removed again :p
12:21:59  <planetmaker> :D
12:22:02  <peter1138> pikkabase
12:22:11  <Pikkaphone> pineapple base
12:22:19  <Pikkaphone> piebase
12:22:23  <supermop> does australia have any laws about walking around photographing peoples houses?
12:22:25  <planetmaker> peebase :P
12:22:40  <planetmaker> but that name might not be ideal ;)
12:22:56  <peter1138> supermop, google should know.
12:23:30  <peter1138> Hmm, I suppose I could change that dropdown thing to be a sprite.
12:23:31  <supermop> well i've been doing thatt already, at least this way i can plausibly claim ignorance
12:24:16  <peter1138> The check mark separate anyway.
12:26:30  <peter1138> latin.txt:STR_CHEATS_TOOLTIP                                              :{BLACK}Signum {CHECKMARK} indicat trica iam a te usa est
12:26:36  <peter1138> Supercheese WHY?
12:27:32  <peter1138> Ok, sprite 142 is buggy :S
12:32:05  <frosch123> the checkmark is fixed via openttd.grf
12:32:21  <peter1138> Hmm...
12:33:27  <frosch123> oh, latin uses {CHECKMARK)? :p
12:33:30  <frosch123> BAD FEATURE
12:34:01  <Pikkaphone> featurum malum
12:34:31  <planetmaker> addendum malum
12:34:45  <peter1138> Yes. It won't once I've removed it...
12:36:09  <Pikkaphone> such Hamilton
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12:42:02  <peter1138> Hmm, need to change that action 12 to a simple sprite replacement.
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12:50:51  <planetmaker> hm, how do I know which gidNumber to assign to a new translation?
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12:52:44  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/checkmark.diff :S
12:52:55  <peter1138> Not really sure about the fix_graphics.nfo change.
12:53:15  <peter1138> Wonder if it should be removed from there and put into openttd base instead.
12:54:03  <peter1138> On the other hand, doing it this way means other basesets don't need changing.
12:54:36  <Eddi|zuHause> what does action12 do?
12:54:43  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, sprite font stuff.
12:54:56  <peter1138> Sets the checkmark to a unicode point.
12:55:19  <Eddi|zuHause> and why exactly is that problematic?
12:55:30  <peter1138> Because I need it as a regular sprite again :p
12:55:59  <peter1138> (font sprites are not scaled, it looks terrible overall)
12:56:25  <Eddi|zuHause> what's special about font sprites?
12:57:46  <Eddi|zuHause> font sprite scaling may be useful
12:58:07  <Pikka> non-sprite fonts don't scale
12:58:11  <Pikka> so why should the sprite fonts?
12:58:31  <planetmaker> non-sprite fonts are the size you set them. Thus scale as you like
12:58:36  <Pikka> yes
12:58:47  <planetmaker> sprite fonts have no such option
12:58:48  <Eddi|zuHause> well, non-sprite-font scaling can be done by just doubling the size
12:58:58  <Pikka> they have the "use a better font" option :P
12:59:35  <Eddi|zuHause> if i set gui to double size, i expect fonts to double as well
12:59:56  <Pikka> you don't expect the font to be the size you set it in the config?
13:00:37  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i expect there to be a font configurator gui
13:00:46  <Pikka> controversial
13:01:45  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i see no problem with the cfg
13:03:34  <peter1138> Hmm, well...
13:03:50  <peter1138> TaI still looks good.
13:04:19  <Pikka> TaI is 3/4 bits of the original TTD graphics :P
13:04:25  <peter1138> exactly :p
13:05:02  <Pikka> it makes nicer town layouts than other house sets though, and I want to take some of the concepts in it further
13:05:11  <Pikka> with more / nicer / more original sprites and 32bppez :P
13:05:21  <b_jonas> which house set?
13:05:27  <b_jonas> I want a good house set
13:05:35  <Pikka> there aren't any
13:05:41  <b_jonas> aww
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13:07:21  <frosch123> peter1138: yes, only some versions of the original graphics are affected by the bug; changing fix_graphics.nfo is fine
13:07:47  <frosch123> the only thing broken will be the "fix ttd grf bugs" newgrf
13:07:59  <frosch123> but noone knows why that exists anyway since it is included in openttd.grf
13:08:41  <Rubidium> s/it/a more complete version/
13:29:17  <peter1138> Hmm...
13:31:17  <peter1138> Now I need to know what zoom level to draw text at...
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14:02:23  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, bah, too hard ;(
14:17:42  <peter1138> Alright, where are string widths cached?
14:18:47  <Rubidium> gfx.cpp
14:20:39  <peter1138> Don't think so, I'm already updating that.
14:20:56  <Rubidium> gfx_layout.cpp?
14:21:20  <peter1138>  28 Layouter::LineCache *Layouter::linecache;
14:21:23  <peter1138> hmm
14:22:26  <Rubidium> I guess ResetFontCache does the trick
14:22:38  <peter1138> yes, if I can figure out how to call it :S
14:23:07  <peter1138> 168 static inline void ClearFontCache()
14:23:11  <peter1138> i hope
14:23:45  <Rubidium> sounds like it, for a sprite font at least
14:23:55  <peter1138> That handles all.
14:24:43  <peter1138> But yes, handling freetype fonts is... not right now :P
14:25:11  <Rubidium> although ClearFontCache for FreeTypeFontCache does call ResetFontCache as well
14:26:29  <peter1138> No reason why it wouldn't, it's still used.
14:27:14  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/double9.png
14:27:15  <peter1138> :S
14:27:23  <peter1138> Actually not that bad
14:28:50  <peter1138> But using a freetype font just crashes everything :p
14:28:59  <peter1138> Let's just remove that feature.
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15:04:35  <Jinassi> nabend, maker of the planet, would you mind logging on Desura to see why Mac client was not accepted? pretty please :)
15:05:02  <Jinassi> (if any message was given)
15:07:14  <planetmaker> highlights work better with full nickname :P
15:07:37  <Jinassi> oh snap, note taken
15:07:44  <planetmaker> but what do I see what you don't, Jinassi ?
15:08:25  <Jinassi> I was hoping dev team would have any message regarding mac client, newest one i uploaded got deleted
15:10:46  <planetmaker> Jinassi, I've never used desura's interface for anything.
15:11:10  <peter1138> Coo, I found a minor bug :D
15:11:12  <Jinassi> np, just curious if there was any info, thank you for the effort
15:11:26  <peter1138> Kinda anyway
15:12:06  <planetmaker> maybe Terkhen knows more?
15:13:09  <Jinassi> rgr, on it.
15:17:02  <Terkhen> Jinassi: Desura usually refused to accept Mac/Linux games that weren't created on Linux
15:17:05  <Terkhen> it complained about file permissions, that Windows does not set
15:17:14  <Terkhen> I don't know if that applies to your problem or not
15:17:36  <Jinassi> prolly fucked up when i made mcf
15:17:39  <Jinassi> tnx
15:18:02  <Terkhen> I don't seem to be able to check the MCF you uploaded, sorry
15:18:13  <Jinassi> yep, gone, deleted
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15:18:18  <Terkhen> ah, okay
15:18:39  <Jinassi> thanky you, now i don't need to continue writing lenghty message about it :P
15:18:56  <Terkhen> now I vaguely remember not being able to upload mac binaries for some reason
15:18:59  <Terkhen> hmmm...
15:19:17  <Terkhen> I don't see any uploaded for the previous version either
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15:26:08  <peter1138> Du, du hast, du hast mich
15:26:32  <V453000> NO.
15:26:57  <peter1138> :(
15:27:29  <planetmaker> doch doch!
15:29:31  <peter1138> I want cliffs :(
15:29:43  <planetmaker> V453000, I suggest you read my reply in the 'how to get old newgrfs' thread again, too
15:30:20  <planetmaker> your first reply is wrong. Your 2nd not productive in that thread
15:30:40  <V453000> if you have a save you can always get the right version?
15:30:44  <planetmaker> yes
15:30:52  <V453000> that is what first is saying
15:31:06  <V453000> second isnt meant to be productive just make him realize that he doesnt need it :D
15:31:43  <planetmaker> you say that you only get it, if you remove the last one. That's by no means a requirement
15:32:04  <V453000> well sure but cleanest
15:32:06  <planetmaker> granted, by default only the latest is shown
15:32:10  <V453000> esp if the latest is borkd as shit
15:32:14  <planetmaker> when selecting newgrfs for new maps
15:32:17  <V453000> yes and that
15:37:10  <peter1138> Sup
15:38:33  <V453000> nuffyn
15:39:34  <peter1138> ok so
15:39:49  <peter1138> How to fix this fscking freetype renderer... scaling would be silly :D
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16:20:09  <andythenorth> o/
16:21:03  <planetmaker> \o
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16:21:55  <V453000> o/
16:23:31  <andythenorth> where is cat?
16:23:44  <planetmaker> under the couch
16:25:07  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't look for cats. cats look for you.
16:26:16  <planetmaker> indeed. I visited yesterday a friend. And... indeed the cats were watching me. Quite skeptically :P
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16:29:19  <V453000> yetis watch you too you just arent aware
16:29:38  <planetmaker> yup
16:33:07  <planetmaker> hm... from ogfx+biggui source:
16:33:09  <planetmaker> / Looks better centred, but not yet implemented for testing purposes for peter1138
16:33:09  <planetmaker> / replace( 130, "gfx/biggui.png") { [306, 776, 20, 20, 0, -2, NOCROP] }   // up arrow
16:33:09  <planetmaker> / replace( 140, "gfx/biggui.png") { [354, 776, 20, 20, 0, -2, NOCROP] }   // down arrow
16:33:19  <planetmaker> :D
16:33:35  <planetmaker> I wonder what will happen if I uncomment that
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16:43:09  <peter1138> planetmaker, I'm thinking of reworking all those sprites in openttd.grf too.
16:43:42  <peter1138> They're just about okay at the moment.
16:43:50  <peter1138> 4x shows it up though.
16:46:41  <planetmaker> just adding ogfx+biggui's sprite as 2x to OpenGFX. Let's see
16:47:06  <peter1138> Might have issues if they're not exactly 2x :)
16:47:17  <planetmaker> they should be. But will see :)
16:47:25  <planetmaker> should != is :)
16:47:31  <peter1138> heh
16:47:40  <planetmaker> dunno. First port, then test
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17:21:41  <peter1138> Gah, this is looking uglier and uglier :p
17:21:50  <planetmaker> town list looks double-spaced with 2x gui
17:22:26  <peter1138> It has that icon next to each item.
17:22:57  <planetmaker> ha, lol. yes, it hadn't when I started a new game and did not yet do anything
17:23:10  <peter1138> Huh? It's a grey icon.
17:23:37  <peter1138> Oh, blank in OpenGFX...
17:23:41  <planetmaker> :D
17:23:46  <planetmaker> yeah
17:24:19  <planetmaker> but that's fair enough, I guess
17:28:39  <liq3> God, I'm understanding why the profit game is no fun in OpenTTD.
17:35:06  <__ln__> @seen God
17:35:06  <DorpsGek> __ln__: I have not seen God.
17:35:20  <peter1138>  [05] bin/openttd(_ZN22Blitter_32bppOptimized6EncodeEPKN12SpriteLoader6SpriteEPFPvmE+0x150) [0x5addb0]
17:35:24  <peter1138> ;(
17:36:28  <planetmaker> hm... why do the 2x sprites not show for me?
17:37:28  <planetmaker> ah...
17:37:35  <peter1138> Blank or just not the correct ones?
17:40:46  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/doublefonttoo.diff
17:43:53  <peter1138> Count the hacks :p
17:45:10  <peter1138> Excuse town_cmd.cpp :p
17:46:52  <peter1138> That fixes the station feature icon issue.,
17:47:04  <peter1138> Hmm
17:49:27  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27001 /trunk/src/lang (9 files) (2014-10-12 17:49:12 UTC)
17:49:28  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:49:29  <DorpsGek> afrikaans - 4 changes by telanus
17:49:30  <DorpsGek> catalan - 16 changes by juanjo
17:49:31  <DorpsGek> english_US - 6 changes by Supercheese
17:49:32  <DorpsGek> french - 5 changes by glx
17:49:33  <DorpsGek> hungarian - 66 changes by IPG
17:49:34  <DorpsGek> italian - 5 changes by lorenzodv
17:49:35  <DorpsGek> korean - 5 changes by telk5093
17:49:36  <DorpsGek> russian - 5 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:49:37  <DorpsGek> spanish - 4 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
17:49:44  <peter1138> That's a lot
17:54:29  <planetmaker> there. when one actually uses the correct grf, sprites suddenly appear
17:54:43  <peter1138> ohh
17:55:26  <planetmaker> failed to compile due to stupid macro error. and used old grf
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18:17:37  <peter1138> It does work, right? Heh
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18:19:27  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, DorpsGek no longer cuts off long messagese?
18:19:36  <Eddi|zuHause> -e
18:20:16  <peter1138> Apparently not just then.
18:27:00  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27002 /trunk/src (3 files in 3 dirs) (2014-10-12 18:26:54 UTC)
18:27:01  <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish: replace some non-ASCII characters with ASCII characters, e.g. @?5?0aram to @param
18:28:58  <frosch123> hmm, i have ß on altrgr+p as well
18:36:08  <peter1138> Isn't that standard? ßßß
18:36:47  <frosch123> no idea, what language is it needed for?
18:36:53  <Rubidium> NewGRF ;)
18:37:23  <frosch123> oh, it is the utf-8 char?
18:38:01  <Rubidium> yes
18:38:44  <peter1138> Any idea how to do that hack around Encode() cleanly? :S
18:38:45  <Rubidium> it's used in Iceland, but was used in old Norse and old English
18:40:52  <Rubidium> ß became th, but apparantly the ß was to hard to write so there was a simplification to y -> ye olde
18:41:26  <frosch123> peter1138: where does ST_FONT affect Encode?
18:41:43  <frosch123> it seems to disable the palette conversion, which should stay
18:41:59  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27003 /trunk/src (21 files in 5 dirs) (2014-10-12 18:41:53 UTC)
18:42:00  <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: fix the use of spaces and asterices "around" some comments
18:42:37  <frosch123> wouldn't you rather want to change the min/max_zoom?
18:43:03  <frosch123> using the interface zoom instead of ZOOM_LVL_NORMAL?
18:43:24  <frosch123> resp. instead of the viewport zoom
19:01:22  <peter1138> Well
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19:06:31  <Wolf01> 'night
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19:07:26  <peter1138> frosch123, not all blitter encoders have that zoom level stuff.
19:08:00  <peter1138> Hmm, I suppose I could somehow add it.
19:08:49  <peter1138> (And then use ZOOM_LVL_NORMAL for all text drawing)
19:10:14  <planetmaker> peter1138, what I really would like is fractional GUI zoom. My personal preference actually is 1.5x :P
19:11:45  <peter1138> Sort of possible...
19:11:55  <peter1138> Needs to be a separate set of sprites though.
19:15:41  <planetmaker> I have that from opengfx+biggui :P
19:15:51  <peter1138> Exactly.
19:18:20  <frosch123> planetmaker: get a bigger screen :p
19:18:51  <planetmaker> or move my chair further away from the screen :P
19:18:54  <Rubidium> planetmaker: increase you computer's monitor's DPI by about 33%
19:19:16  <planetmaker> hm, 1200 pixels on ~<30cm
19:22:57  <argoneus> :-)
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19:23:53  <frosch123> planetmaker: technically 3x zoom is easier to do than 1.5x zoom, so with higher dpi you can get finer zoom levels
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19:32:11  <planetmaker> frosch123, I know :)
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19:40:04  <planetmaker> peter1138, maybe changing gui size should somehow trigger re-arrangement of windows. At least if they overlap then
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19:43:18  <peter1138> How often do you anticipate changing size?
19:43:34  <planetmaker> every 10 minutes currently
19:44:03  <peter1138> t:)
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20:07:27  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/doublefonttoo2.diff
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20:07:30  <peter1138> Another version...
20:08:39  <peter1138> Not sure what happens to the unencoded sprite memory. It doesn't seem to be freed there so I guess it's safe to just repoint it like that.
20:09:56  <peter1138> I think this method is better. There's slightly more faff on loading, and it has to reload all the sprites when you change GUI scale.
20:10:07  <peter1138> But actually drawing text is simpler.
20:10:45  <peter1138> Or rather, exactly the same as it is now.
20:11:25  <peter1138> FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL isn't as free as it once was though :S
20:11:32  <peter1138> s/free/cheap/
20:14:20  <frosch123> peter1138: btw. i am pretty sure you cannot just call GfxLoadSprites
20:14:33  <frosch123> it should reset newgrf stuff and such, so can only be done on the intro menu
20:14:57  <peter1138> Meh
20:15:03  <frosch123> i think you want to call some other function
20:15:25  <frosch123> something along what CheckBiltter does
20:15:47  <peter1138> Ok
20:15:55  <frosch123> maybe ZoomMinMaxChanged is similar
20:19:01  <peter1138> Oh...
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20:19:29  <frosch123> static ReusableBuffer<SpriteLoader::CommonPixel> buffer[ZOOM_LVL_COUNT]; <- that's where your pointers go
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20:20:34  <frosch123> so, yes, copying the pointer should be fine
20:22:34  <peter1138> Right
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20:24:40  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/doublefonttoo3.diff
20:25:39  <peter1138> 8/32bpp <train> Trains 2CC
20:25:43  <peter1138> Hah, that works as well...
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20:32:45  <frosch123> that looks fine :)
20:35:14  <peter1138> Hehe I better commit before someone else pipes up ;)
20:36:32  <frosch123> what's our strategy for the black palette? should we stop pm from adding it to ogfx and zbase and stuff, and get rid of it again?
20:37:20  <peter1138> That would probably make sense.
20:38:40  <peter1138> Hmm, turning on infrastructure maintenance completely wipes out my profit :)
20:38:56  <frosch123> wasn't that the intention?
20:39:29  <peter1138> Possibly. I've been busy building roads around towns etc...
20:41:44  <frosch123> hmm, last commits to zbasebuild and zbuld are by me... that's scary
20:42:02  <planetmaker> hm, is there no opengfx update somewhere in zbase?
20:42:15  <planetmaker> I thought I did that somewhen... I wonder whether I pushed that or ran into some trouble
20:42:15  <frosch123> ogfx already has the black palette
20:42:34  <frosch123> zbase only gets it after updating the ogfx revision in the subrepo
20:43:31  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27004 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2014-10-12 20:43:25 UTC)
20:43:32  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Make GUI size apply to (sprite-font) text as well.
20:43:39  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause ^^
20:43:45  <planetmaker> yes, I thought I did. I probably forgot to push... though I think I somehow messed up my local repo with some stupid other local modifications. Stupid sub-repos
20:43:58  <planetmaker> ui, peter1138 :)
20:44:10  <peter1138> -G
20:44:15  <peter1138> ? I dunno
20:44:39  <planetmaker> we have no CLI with sprite fonts ;)
20:45:03  <peter1138> `
20:45:07  <peter1138> technically CLI :D
20:45:22  <peter1138> Or ~ if it's that key on your layout.
20:45:40  <planetmaker> well. if you want to call that cli, yes
20:45:43  <peter1138> even ls... cd... etc work :D
20:46:25  <peter1138> Hmm, technically I can undo my closebox changes :o
20:46:30  <frosch123> it has no 'sed' though
20:46:48  <peter1138> probably can't pipe either
20:47:16  <peter1138> -Feature: Old people can play OpenTTD again.
20:48:23  <frosch123> sounds like a feature to group 4 neighbouring keys to the same hotkey
20:49:08  <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder what that old font-selector patch did...
20:49:58  <frosch123> noone had the heart to add another some-platforms-only feature
20:50:07  <peter1138> :)
20:52:05  <peter1138> I _guess_ that fixes FS#6139 actually.
20:58:20  <peter1138> (That double-size small-font is awesome)
21:02:26  <planetmaker> indeed, the small sprite font is too small for me, too. Always was
21:03:31  <planetmaker> and we definitely need the font sprites as 2x sprites in the base sets now :D
21:03:42  <planetmaker> the 1x zoomed are just... not nice
21:03:53  <planetmaker> or won't that work with 2x sprites for the font sprites?
21:04:28  <peter1138> It should work.
21:04:57  <planetmaker> sweet :)
21:05:39  <peter1138> But you might find you want a 1.5x size font :P
21:06:00  <planetmaker> I would also prefer that, yes. Except for the small one really
21:06:41  <planetmaker> but our sprite fonts are quite nice, too. So... no system fonts used here
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21:09:20  <MTsPony> Does anyone know where in the code it is determined how far Grass goes from shore -> land inwards (in tropic climate) thx
21:09:32  <frosch123> genworld.cpp
21:09:40  <frosch123> search for TropicZone or something
21:09:46  <MTsPony> thanks :)
21:09:50  <frosch123> hmm, or landscape.cpp?
21:10:14  <frosch123> one of those two :)
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21:10:29  <MTsPony> kk :)
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21:26:13  <planetmaker> g'night
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21:54:32  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: in one of the devzone revamps, the commit email notifications got lost
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22:15:05  <__ln__> is netflix already available in germany?
22:16:43  <NGC3982> "already"?
22:17:09  <__ln__> that's right
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22:17:18  <NGC3982> What's with the holdup
22:17:26  <glx> it's available in france at least
22:17:57  <NGC3982> It's a year and a half since i installed it
22:18:30  <__ln__> i'm watching a swedish-danish tv series on netflix, and i find it disturbing that all the texts in the titles are in german.
22:20:40  <__ln__> and the german voiceover actors are listed in the end titles, even though i can't even select anything but the original audio track.
22:22:00  <__ln__> NGC3982: it became available in .se/.fi/.dk much earlier than in central europe.
22:22:13  <NGC3982> I see.
22:22:48  <glx> and they decided to respect the silly french media chronology
22:23:01  <glx> so no recent movies :)
22:23:26  <__ln__> how recent do you consider recent?
22:23:38  <glx> less than 3 years old
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22:25:26  <NGC3982> What's the "the silly french media chronology"
22:26:08  <__ln__> okay.. well, most movies here as well are older than 3 years, but there are some newer movies that have appeared even less than a year after their premiere.
22:26:50  <glx> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronologie_des_m%C3%A9dias
22:27:53  <glx> so SVOD must wait 36 months after the film is out
22:30:12  <__ln__> that's sad
22:30:22  <glx> for tv series it's better but usually tv channels have exclusivity period
22:31:35  <__ln__> fortunately netflix has some of its own exclusive series
22:32:22  <glx> yes but it's funny because house of cards is not available on netflix in france :)
22:32:43  <glx> they don't own the rights
22:33:15  <__ln__> errrr... wtfrance
22:34:03  <glx> canal+ tv channel bought the series before netflix came in france so they own the rignts for france
22:35:15  <__ln__> great
22:36:11  <__ln__> btw, does netflix in france offer both dubbed and original audio for foreign stuff?
22:36:22  <glx> yes
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22:36:57  <__ln__> good
22:37:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i think netflix started a few weeks ago
22:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> but i have not heard anything about what kind of content they serve
22:38:18  <__ln__> sounds like you're not a subscriber yet then
22:38:27  <glx> they started on september 15th here
22:38:35  <glx> I'm still on the free month
22:38:42  <Eddi|zuHause> probably around the same here
22:40:06  <__ln__> they started something like 18th Oct 2012 here.
22:40:14  <Eddi|zuHause> there are also other streaming services, like one called "maxdome"
22:40:45  <Eddi|zuHause> they offered stuff like TV series 1 week before free-tv airing, for 2€ per episode
22:41:15  <glx> yeah we have that kind of services too
22:42:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i thought that wasn't worth it, and didn't bother checking again
22:42:22  <glx> but it's to see series 24h after it's aired in the US
22:42:43  <glx> (ie a year before it usually comes on our tv)
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22:42:56  <Eddi|zuHause> that would probably be more useful
22:43:12  <glx> but it's too expensive :)
22:43:26  <Eddi|zuHause> there are some pay-tv channels which do that for certain series
22:43:43  <glx> yes on cable/sat
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22:49:18  <Eddi|zuHause> "death cannot be tax-deducted as a permanent work-impairing disability"
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23:19:23  <argoneus> good night train friends
23:19:36  <Patrick> lol
23:19:55  <__ln__> are you the Patrick from the past?
23:25:41  *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit []
23:33:10  <Patrick> I am from the past... but I dont know if I am the patrick from the past
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