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00:05:01 *** jrambo [~jrambo@178-222-64-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:22 *** jrambo [~jrambo@178-222-64-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #openttd 00:08:18 *** heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 00:08:20 *** heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has joined #openttd 00:10:47 *** APTX_ [~APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 00:10:57 *** APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:14:49 *** George|2 [~George@185.43.94.91] has joined #openttd 00:14:49 *** George is now known as Guest2560 00:14:49 *** George|2 is now known as George 00:16:25 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-191-31.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:21:21 *** Guest2560 [~George@185.43.94.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:35:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6BA88.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 00:41:02 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:27 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-191-31.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:42:11 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 00:44:31 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 00:46:54 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:29:27 *** Klanticus [~quassel@187.39.191.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:37:05 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-23-62.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:58:17 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-23-62.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:52 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-191-31.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:21:25 *** rrix [~rrix@c-67-188-183-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 02:39:35 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:41:19 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:11:16 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 04:08:46 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-191-31.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:42:24 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:42:25 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:50:31 *** SHOTbyGUN [shotbygun@213-186-253-83.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4F17.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4367.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:23:51 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:26:21 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has joined #openttd 05:49:14 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:54:02 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:59:00 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 06:04:17 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:11:52 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:29:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@88.130.177.157] has joined #openttd 06:33:28 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p4FE229D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:35:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6BA88.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:37:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:47:58 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 06:53:24 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d855407.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 06:58:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 07:00:53 <argoneus> good morning train friends 07:03:06 <V453000> enemy 07:03:21 <V453000> are you REALISTIC? 07:03:29 <V453000> I luv it 07:05:05 <argoneus> w-wut 07:06:24 <V453000> exactly 07:16:00 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 07:18:44 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:49:31 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:20 * Flygon prods argoneus 08:04:25 <Flygon> I'm a Flygon, not a Train D: 08:04:34 <Flygon> Also I'm utterly nuts 08:06:04 * V453000 uses hexa coordinates for his 16x16 grid of trains 08:06:12 <V453000> despite hating hexa numbers 08:06:19 <V453000> ha 08:07:38 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 08:11:41 * V453000 is proud of himself 08:15:27 <peter1138> sup? 08:18:01 <V453000> wtf up 08:18:03 <V453000> also down 08:19:20 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:23:55 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 08:42:19 <Celestar> good day 08:42:36 <__ln__> average 08:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause> cold 08:59:52 <planetmaker> rain with Westerly gusty winds 09:01:28 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-191-31.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:06:43 *** FLodos [5355c702@107.161.19.53] has joined #openttd 09:06:48 <FLodos> hi! 09:07:23 <FLodos> i'm in a bit of a problem, maybe somone here can help me? 09:08:13 *** FLodos [5355c702@107.161.19.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:42 <Eddi|zuHause> no 09:10:17 <argoneus> maybe he was getting murdered 09:10:21 <argoneus> in his apartment 09:11:07 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has quit [Quit: reboot] 09:12:15 <supermop> i usually turn to irc when getting murdered 09:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause> how often does that happen to you? 09:17:50 <peter1138> # i just wanna be... a woman 09:23:47 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-48-254.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:26:36 *** qwebirc77279 [~oftc-webi@193.86.154.7] has joined #openttd 09:27:18 <peter1138> Yeah, maybe that web interface work was really useful... 09:27:23 <peter1138> ... *making 09:27:24 <planetmaker> hello petra1138 09:27:35 <peter1138> hello planetifex 09:28:32 <peter1138> hee, this font looks weird ;P 09:30:01 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:32:04 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 09:33:35 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:3dce:5d08:21fb:1ec5] has joined #openttd 09:33:49 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-191-31.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:35:02 *** qwebirc77279 [~oftc-webi@193.86.154.7] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:40:20 *** SHOTbyGUN [shotbygun@213-186-253-83.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:50:57 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 10:05:30 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 10:18:08 *** fjb is now known as Guest2606 10:18:09 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:25:05 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 10:25:36 *** Guest2606 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:34:42 <LordAro> hmm, you guys not going to announce 1.4.4 then? :L 10:57:24 <peter1138> 98KB for a house place patch :( 11:01:00 <argoneus> are you guys going to announce half life 3 11:19:14 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 11:24:18 <planetmaker> still, I think house placement in SE makes sense. But I didn't yet look at that patch series (again) 11:27:09 <Eddi|zuHause> how can that be more than 10LOC for the construction part and 100LOC for the gui part? 11:28:02 <peter1138> Maybe they're very long lines :) 11:29:08 <Eddi|zuHause> the gui would be mostly copy-paste from the object gui 11:29:17 <peter1138> That doesn't make it smaller. 11:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> no 11:29:39 <peter1138> CMD_DEITY 11:29:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but easier :p 11:29:43 <peter1138> o_O 11:30:05 <peter1138> Never seen that one before, heh. 11:30:30 <Eddi|zuHause> that should be something that game scripts do 11:30:55 <planetmaker> sudo place house basically :) 11:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the gui should probably be filterable by town zone 11:33:08 <peter1138> Callbacks make all that shit hard. 11:33:10 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4367.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 11:33:17 <peter1138> Bye 11:35:29 <V453000> time for beer 11:35:44 *** Eddi|zuHause [~EddizuHau@p57BD4367.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:45:52 <peter1138> Urgh, image rentention issues :( 11:47:09 <Rubidium> what's rentention? 11:47:44 <peter1138> Persistence? 11:49:48 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 11:50:23 <Rubidium> oh, so it is retention; thought it might mean something completely different with the extra n 11:55:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:55:42 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 11:58:17 <peter1138> It must be a known 'fault' before manufacture, because it's the only monitor I've seen with an LCD conditioning mode designed to reduce retention... 11:58:28 <peter1138> I wonder how long I'd have to keep that on. 12:02:22 <b_jonas> ugh 12:07:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@88.130.177.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:12:57 <V453000> my spritesheets are going to be utter insanity XD 12:16:39 <argoneus> is that why your trains have such ludicrous names 12:18:49 <V453000> no that is something different :) 12:18:56 <V453000> related, maybe 12:19:36 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-191-31.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:35:36 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 12:39:54 *** looptrooper [~looptroop@2a02:8071:683:7b01:45bd:86a8:5691:ef4b] has joined #openttd 12:40:54 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-191-31.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:48:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:10 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:11:13 <planetmaker> argoneus, correlation is not causality ;) 13:12:06 *** yaneya [~id@37.140.114.17] has joined #openttd 13:14:22 <argoneus> planetmaker: that 13:14:26 <argoneus> that's too deep for me* 13:14:40 <argoneus> whoever put ' next to enter should not be given any medals 13:15:23 <Rubidium> argoneus: you're free to make your own keyboard layout 13:15:31 <argoneus> not at work :( 13:15:41 <Rubidium> why not? 13:15:50 <argoneus> also as much as I hate to admit it, the default english keyboard is perfect for coding 13:15:50 <Rubidium> just take the keyboard home and rewire it 13:15:56 <argoneus> I don't know where else I would put ' 13:16:07 <Rubidium> at the location of the `? 13:16:14 <argoneus> but I use ~ 13:17:06 <Rubidium> alternatively move out the return; it's not needed by most programming languages anyhow 13:17:25 <Rubidium> e.g. only keep the one of the numpad area and unwire the one near the ' 13:17:25 <argoneus> python-chan would hate me 13:39:57 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p4FE229D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40:20 *** Flippy [~flippy@2a02:25b0:aaaa:5da:face:face:face:1112] has joined #openttd 14:14:33 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 14:21:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 14:22:08 <andythenorth> anyone compiling ottd on OS X Yosemite yet? 14:22:45 *** looptrooper [~looptroop@2a02:8071:683:7b01:45bd:86a8:5691:ef4b] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:28:29 * Rubidium isn't 14:34:07 * Xaroth|Work isn't 14:34:27 <Rubidium> it's also a long time ago I did anything related with Yosemite 14:35:04 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has joined #openttd 14:36:43 <andythenorth> maybe someone in the forums will :P 14:39:44 * Rubidium must say that Apple and Microsoft are equally well suited with completely messing up version numbering 14:40:41 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:41:23 <Rubidium> OS X 10.7.3 == Darwin 11.3, OS X 10.7.4 == Darwin 11.4, OS X 10.7.5 == Darwin 11.4.2... 14:42:07 <Rubidium> OS X 10.9 == Darwin 13.0, OS X 10.9.1 == Darwin 13.0..., OS X 10.9.2 == Darwin 13.1 14:42:13 <Rubidium> really... 14:43:15 <Rubidium> hmm 14:43:32 <__ln__> i guess you could get an equally nonsensical list by comparing Debian release numbers with the kernel versions they were shipped with. 14:43:35 <Rubidium> OS X 10.1 = Darwin 1.4.1, OS X 10.1.1 = Darwin 5.1 14:44:13 <Rubidium> __ln__: but the Debian kernel(s) are not refered to as the "OS Name" 14:44:47 <Rubidium> after all, Darwin is an operating system... the Debian kernel(s) aren't 14:45:12 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:53 <Rubidium> also, for Debian there is no general "mapping" between kernel version and OS version. 14:47:29 <__ln__> did apple ever promise or document such mapping for OS X? 14:47:49 <Rubidium> for OS X there kinda is: OSX minor + 4.OSX build ~= Darwin major.Darwin minor 14:48:38 <Rubidium> __ln__: don't know, but it's kinda evident that it is more or less the current behaviour 14:49:09 <andythenorth> âOpen Sourceâ Darwin is just Appleâs equivalent of green washing 14:49:20 <andythenorth> Apple has zero interest in any genuine open source ethos 14:49:38 <andythenorth> which should be obvious :P 14:49:57 <__ln__> andythenorth: how do you measure genuinity? 14:51:13 <andythenorth> âI know it when I donât see itâ 14:51:32 <andythenorth> dunno, Iâm pretty happy that I can read Apple and what they care about and what they don't 14:52:32 <__ln__> for example, apple created pre-compiled header support for GCC years before such support was available in mainline GCC. 14:53:19 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d855407.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:55:31 <Rubidium> __ln__: ... because Apple didn't want to play by the rules of GCC anymore 14:56:19 <__ln__> ... so implementing a new feature for a GPL-licensed piece of software is a bad thing because of that? 14:57:30 <Rubidium> no, but over time they Apple has become less and less open to open source 14:57:49 <__ln__> yes, no doubt. 14:58:15 <Rubidium> e.g. the effective ban on GPL-ed software in their application distribution system 14:58:25 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 14:59:01 <Rubidium> true, Debian is somewhat pedantic the other way around... but for Debian it's just one line in a configuration file away for getting the non-free stuff that is packaged for Debian 14:59:29 <andythenorth> Rubidium: nah, Apple have become about the same amount of open to open source 14:59:44 <andythenorth> they never seriously cared, and they still donât seriously care 15:00:38 <andythenorth> and they never will seriously care, unless the people running it change rather a lot 15:02:08 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 15:02:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:03:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has left #openttd [] 15:08:36 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 15:15:50 *** TheSerb [~TheSerb@cable-178-149-188-6.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #openttd 15:16:35 *** TheSerb [~TheSerb@cable-178-149-188-6.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [] 15:18:46 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 15:31:38 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:05:47 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f743342.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:06:42 <Alberth> o/ 16:09:57 <frosch123> hai 16:10:47 <Taede> o/ 16:16:19 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:17:16 *** yaneya [~id@37.140.114.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:22:43 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:37:53 *** FLodos [5355c702@d.clients.kiwiirc.com] has joined #openttd 16:41:25 *** pixar [~Mychomize@46-236-110-230.customer.t3.se] has joined #openttd 16:45:45 *** arroyoc [~Thunderbi@188.pool85-57-204.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #openttd 16:56:47 *** arroyoc [~Thunderbi@188.pool85-57-204.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: arroyoc] 17:03:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 17:03:38 <andythenorth> meh 17:03:42 <Alberth> hihi 17:03:51 <andythenorth> I suppose Iâll update my wifeâs laptop to OS X Yosemite 17:03:54 <andythenorth> and try compiling on that 17:04:02 <andythenorth> then do the inevitable crap to make it work :P 17:04:15 <andythenorth> only just fixed my Mavericks compile :( 17:04:29 <Alberth> buy a normal pc, put it in a quiet corner and work remotely? :p 17:04:44 <planetmaker> :D 17:05:22 <andythenorth> whereâs the fun 17:05:36 <andythenorth> I could just put linux in a VM 17:05:41 <andythenorth> if I wanted to cheat :P 17:06:18 <Alberth> install linux, and run osx in a vm :p 17:06:34 <Alberth> probably more fun than you care to have :) 17:10:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:11:13 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:19:28 *** mgrunin [~none@162.221.200.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:41 *** mgrunin [~none@162.221.200.198] has joined #openttd 17:27:42 <frosch123> hmm, where would be the correct place in ottd to add a button "manual", which opens the wiki manual in a browser? 17:28:13 <andythenorth> question mark menu 17:28:16 <frosch123> hmm, i guess a "?" button in every window caption 17:29:06 <planetmaker> frosch123, main menu. And behind the ? button in main toolbar 17:29:09 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host156-13-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:29:28 <frosch123> i think something context sensitive would make more sense 17:29:32 <Wolf01> hello o/ 17:29:49 <Alberth> hello 17:29:51 <frosch123> but yes, those two places for generall wiki mapge 17:29:53 <planetmaker> how context sensitive do you want it? 17:30:10 <frosch123> the ? in the order gui shall link to the wiki page about the order gui 17:30:36 <Alberth> context sensitive makes sense, but clutters up the window title bar somewhat 17:30:41 <planetmaker> wow, you really want to take it far :) 17:30:49 <andythenorth> you donât need help everywhere 17:30:58 <andythenorth> Iâve built apps that tried to do it 17:31:02 <andythenorth> itâs overkill 17:31:22 <Alberth> but then you have to decide which one is useful 17:31:27 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/Orders <- though i guess we do not have such pages for all windows :p 17:31:29 <__ln__> how do you open the browser while in fullscreen? 17:31:34 <Alberth> hmm, translations jump to translated wiki? 17:31:35 <frosch123> Alberth: isn't there enough space in the window title? 17:31:58 <frosch123> Alberth: not possible with current wiki, i think 17:32:05 <andythenorth> one help option on global menu is adequate 17:32:11 <frosch123> hmm, unless we actually do not link directly to the wiki 17:32:16 <frosch123> but to manual.openttd.org/windowid/langid 17:32:25 <planetmaker> we already have 3 buttons in window title bar 17:32:29 <frosch123> which has some script magic that scan the wiki for pages and linked translations 17:32:41 <Alberth> and no location button yet either :) 17:33:24 <Alberth> oh, in general there is plenty of space in the title bar 17:33:30 <frosch123> [close] title [location] [help] [defsize] [sticky] 17:33:35 <andythenorth> donât need help there 17:33:40 <andythenorth> :) 17:33:49 <andythenorth> try it? 17:33:50 <frosch123> maybe some advanced setting for each button? :p left/right/off 17:33:52 <planetmaker> [debug] 17:34:02 <frosch123> debug does not count :p 17:34:09 <planetmaker> lol @ settings :) 17:34:33 <frosch123> anyway, if we add some padding between them, it should not be too confusing 17:34:53 <planetmaker> generally I'm +1 to that idea 17:34:55 <frosch123> [close] title [location] [help] (padding) [defsize] [sticky] 17:34:57 <andythenorth> do the apps you use have help icon on every window group? 17:35:11 <andythenorth> are you sure we donât want clippy instead? o-O 17:35:12 <andythenorth> o_O 17:35:13 <frosch123> not every 17:35:24 <frosch123> ottd doesn't have wiki pages on all windows 17:35:55 *** Pereba [~UserNick@186.212.236.85] has joined #openttd 17:35:59 <frosch123> there are tooltips for the details, but a wiki for the general description would be nice 17:36:46 <planetmaker> Well, generally we could add it to all windows. If there's no wiki yet, it's incentive to create that page 17:36:55 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-162.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:37:04 <Alberth> hi hi Zuu 17:37:13 <Zuu> Hello Alberth 17:37:14 <planetmaker> o/ 17:37:17 <frosch123> hmm, i guess it needs some ottd redirection, something like manual.openttd.org/version/windowid/language 17:37:32 <frosch123> that would allow linking to different pages for different ottd versions 17:37:33 <andythenorth> yes 17:37:41 <Zuu> Hello everyone else :-) 17:37:42 <andythenorth> you end up needing a help redirection manager 17:37:46 *** FLodos [5355c702@d.clients.kiwiirc.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 17:37:52 <Alberth> we hire andy :) 17:37:54 <andythenorth> ideally web based, ideally changeable without editing the app 17:38:02 <andythenorth> did I mention Iâve done this before? 17:38:05 <LordAro> ah, hellos are being done here :) o/ Zuu 17:38:08 <frosch123> andythenorth: we already have a redirection for the grf search 17:38:16 <Alberth> you sound like a manager :) 17:38:17 <frosch123> and wiki pages are not created that often :p 17:38:24 <andythenorth> what are we trying to solve? 17:38:31 <andythenorth> (other than making it easy to access wiki) 17:38:31 <planetmaker> yes... such re-direction makes sense 17:38:40 <planetmaker> with a fallback at least from language->english 17:39:06 <frosch123> LordAro: i searched the wiki for the release annoucement, so i could post it 17:39:14 <frosch123> but you didn't link to one, like you usually do 17:39:23 <LordAro> aw 17:39:24 <LordAro> :p 17:39:36 <LordAro> wait, release announcement? 17:39:56 <LordAro> do you mean anything different to http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD_1.4.4 17:40:26 <frosch123> LordAro: at the bottom there is only a link to 1.4.4-rc1 news, but not to 1.4.4 :/ 17:41:37 <LordAro> that's because there wasn't one? 17:41:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:41:41 <LordAro> that was my point :L 17:41:45 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:41:47 <frosch123> andythenorth: planetmaker: anyway, i guess the first step would be figureing out whether there are more than 3 windows, which could link to usable info :p 17:42:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 17:42:05 <LordAro> http://www.openttd.org/en/ <-- indeed, no news article :p 17:42:43 <Alberth> yes, he said that 17:42:46 <Zuu> Related to context help, in a program that I work on we have F1 = go to corresponding page in the manual. It has bindings for most input fields in the entire application to some page in the manual. 17:43:07 <frosch123> F1 is pause :p 17:43:12 <frosch123> that is more important than help 17:43:17 <Zuu> Yeah, this is a desktop application. 17:43:19 <Alberth> MUCH more important :) 17:44:06 <frosch123> we could use ctrl+scrolllock for help :p 17:44:14 <planetmaker> lol 17:44:24 <planetmaker> why don't we bind 'space' to help? 17:44:24 <Zuu> How many newbies will figure out that? 17:44:27 <planetmaker> err. to pause 17:44:46 <Zuu> (ctrl + scroll lock) 17:44:58 <Zuu> Space clears news messages 17:45:05 <planetmaker> oh, it does? 17:45:09 <planetmaker> :D 17:45:12 <Zuu> Ctrl + Space could pause 17:45:16 <frosch123> Zuu: but it would entertain the forums :) 17:45:28 <Zuu> Sure 17:45:39 <Zuu> Doesn't the pause button already pause the game? 17:45:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27031 trunk/src/lang/irish.txt (2014-10-22 17:45:39 UTC) 17:45:47 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:48 <DorpsGek> irish - 94 changes by tem 17:46:04 <Alberth> Zuu: it's at the wrong end of the keyboard :) 17:46:05 <frosch123> anyway, i don't think "help" needs a hotkey 17:46:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [] 17:46:13 <frosch123> i window button is more useful 17:46:26 <frosch123> people who need help are more likely to press a "?" button than to press F1 17:46:33 <Zuu> Alberth: Remap that key if you don't like its placement. 17:47:03 <frosch123> it should also be in a place where you do not accidentially press it 17:47:12 <frosch123> opening a browser in the middle of the game is certainly annoying 17:47:43 <Rubidium> the turbo button 17:47:45 <Alberth> hmm, ECS help for ECS industries? 17:48:14 <Rubidium> also... how are you going to handle the game script windows? A script specific page? 17:48:14 <frosch123> BAD FEATURE :p 17:48:32 <frosch123> if any removes descriptions for engines, we hardly want him to add a wiki link instead :p 17:48:44 <frosch123> *andy 17:48:59 <planetmaker> looking for http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECS, Alberth ? 17:49:34 <Alberth> planetmaker: no, I just pressed the theoretical "help" button at my theoretical ECS game 17:49:50 <planetmaker> :) FIRS and ECS do have elaborate help pages 17:49:51 <Alberth> and wondered what should happen 17:49:55 <planetmaker> and YETI and NUTS 17:50:15 <planetmaker> Alberth, it could open the URL provided by action14 of the newgrf 17:50:45 <Alberth> that's the general discussion page, I think? 17:50:58 <Zuu> Or add new APIs in the spec where they can provide help URLs for things that they provide. 17:51:06 <Alberth> obviously, I want information about the coal mine that's in the window :p 17:51:48 <frosch123> yeah, the new scenario format also needs a method to add signs with urls 17:51:51 <Zuu> Eg. if you declare a coal mine, you could set its helpUrl attribute to your manual wiki. 17:52:02 <frosch123> so you can properly label your realworld scenario with wiki landscape descriptions 17:52:18 <Alberth> nice idea frosch123 17:52:57 <planetmaker> action0 property as URL? :D 17:53:17 <frosch123> i hope no callback 36 :p 17:53:22 <planetmaker> lol 17:53:22 <Zuu> Another way would be to allow longer texts etc. in the game and have an in-game doc viewer. But that is probably not as feature packed viewer as a modern web browser. 17:53:45 <planetmaker> frosch123, though sure it can make sense. Depending on climate, on year, on... you-name-it 17:53:47 <frosch123> Zuu: for complicated things you also want images 17:53:56 <Zuu> Allow to specify URLs and provide help buttons is probably easier to implement though. 17:53:56 <frosch123> a browser is a far nicer solution for that 17:54:28 <frosch123> and if we switch to video tutorials, no issue either :p 17:54:38 <Alberth> at this tile napoleon died in the the battle of waterloo 17:55:01 <planetmaker> :) 17:55:08 <frosch123> yeah, a lot more options to play realistically :) 17:55:10 <George> You are discussing adding URI s to the game, but can't add a total consist weight property... SHOCKED 8-O 17:55:42 <frosch123> yes, because one makes sense, while the other does not 17:56:25 <frosch123> anyway, noone added uris yet :p 17:56:26 <George> From my point of view URIs has much less sense 17:57:00 <frosch123> i told you, weight makes no sense because it depends on slopes, slope settings, freight settings, ... 17:57:46 <George> It does not depend. It tain acceselaration model depend. Weigth itself is not 17:58:10 <George> Open the train props window and see it while train moves 17:58:32 <George> Total weight displayd and changes only on load/unload 17:59:07 <George> If a player can wach this value why can't the code do it? 17:59:09 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 17:59:14 <frosch123> it is not the job of newgrf to add custom acceleratio mechanics 17:59:42 <George> And it does not. But calculation of RC is 18:00:09 <frosch123> if you had requested a "engine usage" variable or whatever, it would make sense 18:00:14 <frosch123> but "weight" is useless 18:00:30 <George> what is engine usage? 18:01:34 <George> % percent of power it uses at the moment? (100% on acceleration, less on max speed?) 18:01:40 <frosch123> the current power output of the engine to accelerate resp. hold the speed, compared to the maximum output it can do 18:02:05 <George> value betwen 0% and 100%? 18:02:31 <frosch123> no idea, maybe negative for breaking 18:02:39 <V453000> why do you need such a thing George? 18:02:41 <frosch123> *braking 18:02:53 <planetmaker> breaking is -oo ;) 18:02:53 <George> When is it 100%? 18:03:19 <planetmaker> during acceleration 18:03:21 <peter1138> It is 100% except when it is stopping or stopped. 18:03:21 <frosch123> when not braking and not limited by top speed 18:03:45 <frosch123> it may be 70% if at top speed, but uphill 18:04:19 <peter1138> In game, the speed limit just stops it going faster, it still calculates the acceleration with full power. 18:06:22 <peter1138> (Or was something added for the purposes of smoke generation?) 18:06:45 *** Eddi|zuHause [~EddizuHau@p57BD4367.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 18:06:58 <George> frosch123: If it is less than 100% at the top speed I may use it instead total weight. Can you provide such var? 18:07:18 <frosch123> some places can defnitely differ between "still accelerating" or "limited by various speed limits" 18:08:05 <Alberth> V453000: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1413657900#1413657900 18:09:08 <George> frosch123: it is not enough to have just "limited" value. it should be between 0% and 100% to represent which % is used 18:09:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4367.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:09:54 <peter1138> Also there is only one value for the entire train. 18:09:58 <V453000> thanks Alberth :) reward! :D https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/SLUG_0000.png 18:10:05 <V453000> almost ready to put models there :D 18:10:18 <V453000> making automatic infrastructure to get spritesheets from render 18:10:28 <V453000> full spritesheet like this would be 32k x 1024 XD 18:10:48 <V453000> [iz for trains] 18:11:43 <Alberth> slug must be hding at the other side of the board :) 18:12:10 <V453000> it is there just not visible :p 18:12:23 <frosch123> V453000: we do not yet have newlandscape, you cannot label the grass tiles in toyland 18:12:36 <Alberth> ugh, you're making insane images sizes too, just like zeph? :) 18:12:55 <peter1138> frosch123, nothing in the code does that. 18:12:59 <V453000> LOL 18:13:16 <V453000> I have 128x128 for train sprites 18:13:22 <V453000> same in all rotations 18:13:25 <V453000> idk what zeph has 18:13:45 <V453000> but it is the safe size where you can get all rotations into it when the vehicle is just rotating around its center 18:14:19 <V453000> and 128 is the full width of -- side views assuming the stretching 18:14:22 <peter1138> Are you sure there'll be nothing overlaping? 18:14:23 <Alberth> V453000: https://code.google.com/p/freerct/source/browse/trunk/graphics/sprites/tracks/cars 18:14:36 <V453000> peter1138: am 100% sure 18:14:38 <V453000> of course it has its limits 18:15:11 <peter1138> Yeah, using a sprite sheet is a bit weird. 18:15:14 <V453000> but as long as the vehicles stay 0.5 tile long, 0.45 tile tall and something fat, it is fine 18:15:23 <V453000> which should work 18:15:27 <peter1138> Do you copy the vehicle for each view? 18:15:37 <V453000> no that is done automatically 18:15:38 <Alberth> one car, 16 orientations in rotating around 3 axes 18:15:41 <V453000> this image is rendered 8 times 18:15:56 <V453000> vehicles just rotate on the spot 18:16:10 <V453000> so the final sprite output is 256x8 from one thing like this 18:16:15 <Alberth> s/vehicles/slugs/ 18:16:38 <V453000> now, I have it done flexibly so for less vehicles I can simply use e.g. 4x4 grid, and the spritesheet will only be that large, too 18:16:53 <V453000> the 16x16 should be only for some wagons and even that should be like half-filled 18:17:52 *** FLodos [5355c702@d.clients.kiwiirc.com] has joined #openttd 18:17:53 <V453000> since a wagon can have idk, 25 cargo variations and e.g. 5 loading stages, it adds up quickly :) 18:18:07 <George> frosch123: So, would situation change if I request engine usage instead of total weight? 18:20:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:20:52 * andythenorth goes to war with javascript :x 18:22:17 <andythenorth> hmm 18:22:18 <andythenorth> also 18:22:19 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=71462 18:23:23 <Alberth> you missed an opportunity to make a newgrf :) 18:23:58 <andythenorth> well 18:24:01 <andythenorth> itâs funny timing 18:24:12 <andythenorth> Iâm adding a type of vehicle to Road Hog that transports supplies 18:24:25 <andythenorth> I considered making it refit to the exact supply requirements of FIRS 18:24:33 <andythenorth> same as that post suggests 18:24:40 <andythenorth> but isnât that dumb? 18:25:18 <andythenorth> why not just remove the supply requirements? 18:25:37 <V453000> xd 18:25:44 <V453000> it isnt a bad idea andy 18:25:49 <andythenorth> removing supplies? 18:25:59 <V453000> using chameleon trains from NUTS which can do the same thing, is simply convenient for efficiency 18:26:01 <V453000> no 18:26:11 <V453000> making vehicles easily carry the requried FIRS amount 18:26:30 <andythenorth> so why not just make farms and mines require same amounts? 18:26:31 <planetmaker> andythenorth, the supplies are not a bad thing. It adds some challenge to the game 18:26:47 <planetmaker> it ensures there's two mechanisms. And if you prefer one can simply ignore the supplies anyway 18:26:50 <andythenorth> the only challenge is buy vehicle of precise required size and run it 18:27:13 <Alberth> yeah, which implies tracks and space for the vehicles 18:27:41 <andythenorth> so having perfectly matched vehicles is not a bad feature? :o 18:27:49 <V453000> no, it is good 18:27:54 <planetmaker> andythenorth, and the requirement for different vehicles also is not exactly bad. It gives rise to actually look at more than one vehicle for stuff 18:28:08 <planetmaker> having perfectly matched vehicles doesn't hurt. Not at all 18:28:18 <Alberth> I can't really care, I just deliver way too much anyway to make stuff run fluently 18:28:19 <V453000> andythenorth: the exact vehicle capacity is just OCD anyway, if you deliver 5 extra supplies it wont ruin you :D 18:28:27 <andythenorth> seemed like a terrible idea when I was going to add it to RH 18:28:30 <V453000> as Alberth just said 18:28:42 <V453000> XD 18:28:45 <andythenorth> so youâre saying I should do this in RH too? 18:28:46 <planetmaker> Alberth, or that. That doesn't hurt either. I try to distribute it evenly. But that's too much most often, too. Why care? I get money for it 18:29:05 <V453000> well mainly what else to do with it pm 18:29:07 <planetmaker> andythenorth, you don't need to. But if you do, it's not a mistake 18:29:10 <V453000> if all industries have it and all have too much :D 18:29:16 <planetmaker> V453000, exactly 18:29:18 <andythenorth> I dunno 18:29:26 <andythenorth> I always come back to supplies are stupid 18:29:32 <andythenorth> and requiring precise amounts is stupid 18:29:36 <V453000> XD 18:29:38 <V453000> it isnt 18:29:40 <andythenorth> but I never think of a better answer 18:29:49 <planetmaker> andythenorth, but it doesn't require precise amounts. Just regular delivery 18:30:04 <V453000> it does require amounts to keep some production rate pm 18:30:07 <Alberth> you don't require precise amounts, you only set a minimum 18:30:11 <peter1138> Hrmm, maybe I should start a new game... 256x128 doesn't last long 18:30:13 <V453000> 84 within 3 months? 18:30:47 <planetmaker> yeah. there's only a minimum requirement. That's ok 18:30:50 <Alberth> and it's an extra layer, you can do once you have the basic system running 18:31:04 <andythenorth> I wonder if it should be simpler 18:31:05 <frosch123> peter1138: rubidium had some savegame on 128x128 or so, transporting more than coop on 512x512 18:31:11 <andythenorth> something like good service = production boost 18:31:12 <andythenorth> or something 18:31:17 <Alberth> although gang-ho usually causes havoc in your network :p 18:31:23 <planetmaker> that's way too simple, andythenorth 18:31:32 <planetmaker> buy stupidly many trains. Done 18:32:16 <Alberth> supplies require a new separate network, that spreads out to the industries 18:32:22 <planetmaker> requiring at least X of cargo Y for production boost is not exactly bad. 18:32:24 <Alberth> instead of dump it all at one place 18:32:37 <Alberth> ie it's a different problem 18:32:39 <Rubidium> frosch123: http://rbijker.net/openttd/misc/mine.png you mean? ;) 18:32:44 <V453000> I think suppliesa re fine 18:32:59 <frosch123> Rubidium: yep 18:32:59 <planetmaker> and indeed, supplies manage to force players to deliver stuff to many places, thus building a n->n network instead of n->1 netwo0rk 18:33:10 <andythenorth> they bug me 18:33:10 <V453000> SHIP HAX XD 18:33:16 <andythenorth> but FIRS is 6 years old 18:33:19 <andythenorth> and no better idea yet 18:33:26 <Rubidium> frosch123: too bad I actually lost the savegame :( 18:34:08 <V453000> andythenorth: allowing for something more dynamic, the produce_256 callback can do awesome things, too 18:34:17 <V453000> you deliver less, you get less, you deliver more, you get more 18:34:20 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 18:34:24 <V453000> kind of like processing 18:34:51 <planetmaker> V453000, that's got potential for positive and negative feedback cycles. FIRS has that less as it stretches the time span for that more 18:34:53 <V453000> idk if you could make the effect last for a longer period 18:35:05 <V453000> to reduce that effect 18:35:09 <andythenorth> well 18:35:12 <planetmaker> that's what FIRS does, V453000 18:35:13 <andythenorth> thatâs kind of what FIRS does 18:35:16 <V453000> I know 18:35:19 <andythenorth> it sucks 18:35:36 <V453000> but idk if produce_256 can react slower like that / keep production for longer I mean 18:35:36 <andythenorth> especially farms 18:35:41 <andythenorth> FIRS farms suck 18:35:53 <V453000> the point is, if a player deliver 293719 supplies per month, it is nice to let them have higher production 18:35:54 <planetmaker> I disagree :( 18:35:59 <planetmaker> farm clusters are awesome 18:36:01 <V453000> not linearly not to motivate dumping everything to one spot 18:36:09 <V453000> but allowing for more 18:36:38 <frosch123> andythenorth: i think you should play a different industry set for once 18:36:54 <frosch123> people love firs, but you have played it too often for yourself 18:37:04 <frosch123> now you want to change it just for the purpose of changing it 18:37:17 <andythenorth> you might be right 18:37:35 <andythenorth> on the other hand I still think it sucks 18:37:41 <andythenorth> maybe the answer is a new set 18:37:56 <V453000> definitely better answer than wrecking supplies 18:37:57 <planetmaker> maybe. FIRS works great 18:38:04 <V453000> supplies are what makes FIRS special 18:38:10 <planetmaker> ^^ 18:38:23 <V453000> or just make an economy 18:38:30 <frosch123> newgrf do not need to be perfect, they need to be different :p 18:38:33 <Alberth> andythenorth: as author you are always well aware of the weak points, since you're focused on them. Also look at the good things every now and then :) 18:38:37 <andythenorth> frosch123: agreed 18:38:55 <andythenorth> Alberth: nice to say, but it only gets better by kicking it, no? 18:39:17 <Alberth> not without a good plan :) 18:39:27 <andythenorth> plans :P 18:39:39 <andythenorth> plans are for project mangers :P 18:39:52 <andythenorth> so stupid refittable vehicles for Road Hog? 18:39:53 <Alberth> but an experimental industry set could be useful 18:40:06 <andythenorth> I dunno, this âperfectly sized refitâ smells of BAD FEATURE to me 18:40:32 <V453000> there is nothing bad about it 18:40:40 <andythenorth> also supplies were only added so I could draw this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf_wNfd89aA 18:40:43 <V453000> as I said, if the capacity is 48 or 50 doesnt even matter much 18:40:48 <V453000> you would lose 2 out of 48 supplies 18:40:59 <andythenorth> V453000: BUT THAT IS NOT OPTIMAL 18:41:00 <V453000> you already lose more by having station rating worse with RVs than with trains 18:41:10 <V453000> not assuming FIRS station rating hax XD 18:41:36 <andythenorth> EVERYTHING MUST BE 100% 18:41:47 <V453000> ok :D 18:42:23 <andythenorth> all those weird players posting about all these shitty hacks with little feeders and crap 18:42:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i must be in a fever delirium... did V just advocate for something less optimal? 18:42:51 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause is still alive 18:42:56 <andythenorth> I thought weâd lost him to TF 18:43:43 <V453000> Eddi it just doesnt matter :P 18:43:50 <andythenorth> hmm maybe I deleted the nonsense from wiki page https://wiki.openttd.org/FIRS 18:43:53 <V453000> players have vast excess of supplies anyway 18:46:59 <andythenorth> can I just make farms and mines have same requirements? 18:47:15 <andythenorth> then one vehicle can be provided without this refit bollocks 18:47:46 <V453000> XD 18:48:14 <V453000> well if you make farms require the same as mines then it will be even harder to set them up 18:48:28 <V453000> but again the current amount of supplies produced is generally so high that it should not matter much 18:49:11 <andythenorth> see, the amounts are totally arbitrary, no? 18:49:16 <andythenorth> might as well be 1t and 2t 18:50:26 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:50:29 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:51:02 <V453000> it still matters in cases until you got everything working together 18:51:46 <andythenorth> V453000: what was it you hated about farms? 18:51:48 <andythenorth> something 18:52:17 <V453000> tedious to set up, cant reproduce supplies while metal/oil can 18:52:23 <V453000> were the main two 18:52:37 <V453000> basically, it can be tedious to set up but must be rewarding 18:52:38 <andythenorth> frigging tedious 18:52:43 <andythenorth> I hate them 18:52:49 <V453000> if it is tedious but "meh" then most players just go metal/oil and fuck the rest 18:53:22 <andythenorth> also supplies are too fragile 18:53:29 <andythenorth> they collapse horribly, deadlocking networks 18:53:31 <andythenorth> itâs boring 18:53:39 <andythenorth> maybe they should use pax instead 18:54:27 <Alberth> that's the "workers" industry set :) 18:54:52 <V453000> nothing collapses if your network is proper 18:55:03 <V453000> deadlocking is the player problem 18:55:04 <V453000> and if industry set makes it easier to deadlock, network just has to be more immune to it 18:55:14 <V453000> which is good, adds things to be careful about 18:55:15 <andythenorth> I dunno 18:55:21 <andythenorth> I canât prevent deadlocks 18:55:24 <andythenorth> Iâve been playing 10 years 18:55:34 <andythenorth> itâs boring, trying to ensure you never bridge any networks 18:55:37 <V453000> overflow depots are the ultimate solution :) 18:55:46 <SpComb> infinite depot 18:55:52 <andythenorth> cheating 18:56:09 <V453000> iz feature 18:56:14 <andythenorth> also doesnât help with cdist routing supplies to arbitrary places 18:56:20 <planetmaker> no problem to get it working with just one network really 18:56:24 <V453000> well you can also build long as fuck loops to let trains go there, not infinite 18:56:30 <V453000> but helping 18:56:42 <V453000> cdist is just bullshit with supplies really 18:56:45 <planetmaker> cdist makes it less optimal to use. Yet still it somewhat works 18:56:46 <V453000> easily breaks games 18:57:08 <V453000> we had one whole farm cluster get 0 supplies for wtf reason 18:57:41 <V453000> trains were going there, everything was set up, but suddenly the distribution stopped liking the place 18:57:47 <andythenorth> because cdist prefers to route 75% of output via one 30t tram 18:57:49 <V453000> idk if it liked it before 18:57:53 <andythenorth> instead of 500t of fast trains 18:57:57 <V453000> still, cdist is just bad with firs 18:58:07 <andythenorth> yeah but cdist is how the game is now 18:58:12 <andythenorth> so FIRS should change 18:58:15 <V453000> is not 18:58:44 <V453000> and being able to decide where supplies go and where they dont, is quite interesting 18:58:51 <V453000> not being told where they should be 18:59:32 <SpComb> never tried industry cdist 18:59:36 <V453000> btw andythenorth I got caught in the andythesouth syndrome; creating automatization for 3 days already, hoping to save time in the FUTURE eventually 18:59:47 <andythenorth> this happens 18:59:48 <SpComb> pax cdist + traditional cargo 19:00:08 <andythenorth> that means transfers 19:04:06 <peter1138> cdest :S 19:05:08 <V453000> =D got 64 tiles ready to be spritesheeted :D 19:08:08 *** FLodos [5355c702@d.clients.kiwiirc.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 19:09:55 <peter1138> Should I make viewports double size? 19:10:50 <frosch123> i assume you do not mean the viewport, which you can zoom? 19:11:54 <frosch123> but town/vehicle/industry/news viewports should likely be affected by gui zoom 19:12:00 <peter1138> Yeah I mean all the other ones. 19:12:06 <andythenorth> I wouldnât 19:12:08 <andythenorth> but you might 19:12:25 <peter1138> Well 19:12:48 <peter1138> Main issue is not the zoom but the actual size. 19:15:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.177.157] has joined #openttd 19:16:12 <planetmaker> well. error window gets too small for some single words :) 19:18:07 <andythenorth> on my 13" screen, the lovely 2x gui fills a lot of screen⊠19:18:10 <andythenorth> which is fine 19:18:14 <andythenorth> but canât fit much on it 19:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd assume all default window sizes will be scaled by gui zoom 19:28:43 <Eddi|zuHause> which would include all viewports 19:29:22 <peter1138> No, they're not. 19:30:06 <peter1138> I tried that, it doesn't work out well. 19:31:01 <andythenorth> webkit devtools just arenât good enough 19:31:08 <andythenorth> back to firebug, even though itâs slow as 19:45:41 *** pixar- [~Mychomize@46-236-110-230.customer.t3.se] has joined #openttd 19:45:41 *** pixar [~Mychomize@46-236-110-230.customer.t3.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:47 <andythenorth> oh I remember my stupid ide 19:50:01 <andythenorth> automatically change cargo capacity depending if refit is ENSP or FMSP 19:50:04 <andythenorth> dumb eh? 19:55:57 <andythenorth> not so dumb: vehicle for engineering supplies, vehicle for farm supplies, matched appropriately 19:56:02 <andythenorth> thatâs nice, easy building 19:57:28 <peter1138> Hmm, actually it's not that bad, but unfortunately the default sizes are only available at window construction :( 19:59:25 <Alberth> I once contemplated making the window description available after construction as well, iirc for screen resizing, but never made anything concrete 20:02:27 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:02:46 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:20:42 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p4FE229D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:26:23 <peter1138> Shouldn't be all that hard. I guess the nwidgetparts can be handled in a different way to apply a new minimum size. 20:39:20 <argoneus> :-) 20:40:50 *** Jinassi [~Jinassi@0001ec72.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:52:03 <Wolf01> 'night all 20:52:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:54:26 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 20:54:44 *** UukGoblin [~jaa@yatima.uukgoblin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:01:45 *** argoneus [~argoneus@argoneus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:47 *** argoneus [~argoneus@argoneus.com] has joined #openttd 21:03:25 <frosch123> night 21:03:28 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f743342.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:04:35 <NGC3982> Windows SmartScreen blocked the 1.4.4 32-bit Windows installer as an "unrecogniced program". 21:04:58 <NGC3982> That's new to me? :) 21:05:47 <glx> that's not smart 21:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that's probably a correct categoristation, but why block it? 21:08:38 <glx> to prevent infections 21:09:10 <glx> and if you unblock you assume the risks 21:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> if you think every person you've never met before carries a desease, you should see a doctor 21:10:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and not a desease doctor :p 21:11:43 <glx> when many windows users install stuff from unknown source and become zombies I think it's a good idea to at least make them think twice before installing something :) 21:12:11 <peter1138> They still won't think twice, though. 21:12:18 <glx> some will 21:12:31 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly, these warning windows are just mindlessly clicked away 21:12:53 <Jinassi> and some line colourful toolbars and view screen 1/10 of a 22' screen 21:13:17 <Jinassi> or use trash bin as archive 21:13:54 <glx> toolbars are nice ;) they make IE very slow to start 21:14:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate all these installers that besides the program you want also install a dozen "toolbars" 21:15:13 <glx> all these checkboxes to uncheck, every time 21:15:16 <Jinassi> Java SDK with Ask! toolbar...why, just whyyyy 21:15:51 <Eddi|zuHause> and no amount of "smartwhatever" will protect you from those 21:16:22 <Eddi|zuHause> for all you know, they've been paid to not do that... 21:16:51 <glx> I remember a virus/trojan/whatever named antivirus 21:17:09 <glx> and it was a pain to clean 21:17:19 <planetmaker> it probably was anti other virus ;) 21:17:26 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that a description of every anti virus? :p 21:17:52 <peter1138> Hmm, map height and snow height are the opposite way up on the heightmap world gen screen :S 21:18:05 <Eddi|zuHause> for extra fun effect, install two antivirus :p 21:18:26 <glx> yeah the best way to be totally unprotected :) 21:18:34 <Eddi|zuHause> they block each other, and nobody gets anything done ever again :p 21:31:49 <NGC3982> I was more or less interested in why this version made the smartscreen software start, but none prior to it. 21:35:40 <andythenorth> bed 21:35:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:36:32 *** Jinassi [~Jinassi@0001ec72.user.oftc.net] has quit [] 21:41:14 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:3dce:5d08:21fb:1ec5] has quit [Quit: .] 21:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> just assume that none of us know what that program is actually doing 21:44:49 <peter1138> Or what it is. 21:44:49 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-162.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:45:25 <peter1138> Also I think your use of "start" is wrong there. 21:49:59 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 21:51:10 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 22:01:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:33 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 22:18:26 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p4FE229D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:33 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 22:23:08 <NGC3982> I see 23:19:41 <argoneus> good night train friends 23:21:05 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-191-31.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:48:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.177.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]