Log for #openttd on 25th October 2014:
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06:50:01  <andythenorth> o/
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07:10:38  <andythenorth> where is cat?
07:10:43  <andythenorth> or Eddi|zuHause
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09:01:08  <George> What does nmlc ERROR: Unable to allocate ID for [random]switch, sprite set/layout/group or produce-block. Try reducing the number of such blocks. mean?
09:06:04  <George> anybody here?
09:06:10  <V453000> hm
09:06:17  <V453000> I had a similar error with vehicle IDs
09:06:26  <V453000> solution was to re-order the code, not necessarily reduce amoutn of the things
09:06:46  <V453000> OR your random has too many outputs?
09:07:24  <George> Do you know a way to reuse switch IDs? In NFO it was rather simple - just re use the number
09:07:56  <V453000> I have no clue sorry :d
09:08:36  <George> In NFO there was //@@CLEARACTION2
09:09:04  <George> I suppose there should be something similar for NML
09:09:16  <George> But where to read about it?
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09:33:42  <George>
09:38:33  <Eddi|zuHause> George: NMLC automatically reuses IDs, but if the structure of your code is wrong, it must keep to many IDs "alive" at the same time and runs out
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09:39:43  <George> Any idea how to tell him that some IDs are not required since "this line" and should be reused?
09:40:22  <Eddi|zuHause> George: that is also done automatically
09:40:38  <Eddi|zuHause> George: which means you actually do use it again later
09:40:41  <George> Then how to make it co compile xUSSR set?
09:41:10  <George> How can I check that?
09:41:47  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure
09:42:10  <George> Who can help?
09:42:24  <Eddi|zuHause> in such cases i usually turn python into debug mode, but that's probably not what you want :)
09:42:42  <George> I do not know how to do that
09:43:16  <George> May be you could dowload xUSSR set from devzone and try it it on your side?
09:43:58  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also try commenting out parts of the code, and look at the nfo output
09:44:57  <George> look for what? What should I find in these 217k lines of code?
09:45:44  <Eddi|zuHause> used IDs that are building up
09:46:01  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i'm getting some kind of merge conflict... what's that about...
09:50:42  <George> Is there a way to find, what ID it can't allocate?
09:51:36  <George> and what is the limit for IDs used (alive)? 256? 65536? other?
09:52:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's 256
09:53:07  <George> As I can see, the output NFO file has an old date. That meants I can see only the NML that causes error, but not the nfo generateid til error
09:53:17  <Eddi|zuHause> George: these "is not referenced" warnings are normal?
09:53:33  <George> yes
09:53:48  <George> It says they are ignored, isn't it?
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09:54:13  <George> These are sprites for future use
09:54:21  <George> Not used at the moment
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09:55:42  <Eddi|zuHause> just checking, whether it's my fault or anything
09:57:52  <Eddi|zuHause> so it fails at sprite number 49769
09:57:56  <Eddi|zuHause> whatever that is
09:59:05  <Eddi|zuHause> of 87533
09:59:31  <George> and what id ints NML name?
09:59:42  <George> how can I find ir?
09:59:46  <George> it
10:07:48  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, seems the nml references are forgotten at this point
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10:19:28  <Eddi|zuHause> oh there it is: 'flatbed_11_n004_g13_food_35_sprites - feature 00'
10:23:09  <fonsinchen> meh, apple used to have XCode 4.x available for snow leopard but you cannot get it anymore. The last Xcode for snow leopard you can get on their website is 3.2.6
10:23:21  <fonsinchen> how silly is that ...
10:23:43  <Eddi|zuHause> you lost me at "apple"
10:24:37  <fonsinchen> well, someone has to endure that stuff to make our mac fans happy ...
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10:31:20  <fonsinchen> 3.2.6 should be OK for compiling openttd, though. Last time I tried it even worked with 2.5
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10:40:55  <andythenorth_> Ho
10:41:43  * V453000 is lost
10:41:49  * V453000 is actually browsing real train blueprints
10:42:07  <andythenorth_> Wtf
10:42:20  <andythenorth_> This isn't the right channel
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10:43:27  <Eddi|zuHause> George: <-- these are the sprite numbers it assigns IDs for, then it runs out
10:44:57  <Eddi|zuHause> George: it actually assigns the IDs backwards, so it starts at 255 and when it arrives at 0 it runs out
10:45:04  <V453000> kind of figured it is easier to at least start with blueprints when making a model
10:45:04  <V453000> assuming it should have some level of detail
10:46:27  <andythenorth_> Just invent it?
10:46:38  <andythenorth_> What kind of train?
10:46:59  <V453000> all of them :D
10:47:05  <V453000> inventing where door, wtf, wtf, wtf is, is hard
10:47:26  <andythenorth_> :p
10:48:45  <andythenorth_> So FIRS farms, I'm going to change the production
10:48:53  <andythenorth_> The mines will stay same
10:49:14  <andythenorth_> In my game it's the farms that are annoying
10:49:31  <andythenorth_> Want it to be more stable
10:52:25  <andythenorth_> Maybe longer supply delivery window?
10:52:39  <andythenorth_> Or smaller requirements
10:52:47  <andythenorth_> Also smaller boost
10:53:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what you mean with annoying
10:53:55  <frosch123> andythenorth_: make the boosts configurable :)
10:54:15  <andythenorth_> Maybe yes
10:54:33  <andythenorth_> I'll have to touch the production code anyway
10:54:55  <andythenorth_> Needs a bit of thought about what to change
10:56:28  <peter1138> Change the narrow demon cock
10:56:38  <andythenorth_> Yup
10:56:45  <andythenorth_> That should fix it
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10:57:12  <Wolf01> hello
10:57:23  <andythenorth_> Eddi annoying = tedious yak shaving for supply delivery
10:57:25  <andythenorth_> A
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10:58:43  <andythenorth_> Also highly fluctuating production
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10:59:05  <andythenorth_> Amplified by the clusters
10:59:20  <Quatroking> Do snow maps not get oil rigs?
10:59:57  <frosch123> nope, unless you use a newgrf
11:00:01  <Quatroking> oh, okay
11:00:12  <Quatroking> just noticed I was already in 71 and hadn't seen any
11:00:20  <frosch123> like ogfx+industries
11:00:43  <frosch123> Quatroking: otoh, oil wells do not run out
11:00:54  <Quatroking> oh neat
11:02:40  <andythenorth_> Bbl
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11:06:21  <peter1138> Bah, still not happy with my custom terrain  :S
11:08:03  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... i don't get this...
11:08:13  <peter1138> Sup?
11:08:19  <Eddi|zuHause> (Pdb) p [a for a in x if][-1]
11:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> <nml.actions.action2real.Action2Real object at 0x7ff279257050>
11:08:22  <Eddi|zuHause> (Pdb) p [[a for a in x if][-1] for n in y]
11:08:24  <Eddi|zuHause> *** NameError: global name 'x' is not defined
11:10:00  <Wolf01> I can't even understand what kind of sorcery is that :P
11:10:17  <peter1138> I... don't even know what language that is.
11:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause> that is python
11:13:10  <Rubidium> might the other for loop shadow the x?
11:13:42  <Eddi|zuHause> but shadowing would result in the wrong object to be accessed, not in a name error
11:14:27  <Rubidium> well, I could imagine that the internal representation uses 'x' but since it is external, it marks it as 'undefined' causing that error
11:20:03  <peter1138> Hmm, crikey, my terrain generator is 8KB :(
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11:20:53  <Rubidium> if it's a stand alone terrain generator, then it seems not that big
11:21:06  <supermop> hi
11:21:10  <Rubidium> assuming it's kilobytes, not Kelvinbytes
11:21:18  <peter1138> Hah
11:21:46  <peter1138> It contains one traditional perlin algorithm (not the one we have)
11:22:04  <peter1138> A "fault" algorithm
11:22:30  <peter1138> And then stuff like sealevel finder and stuff to make mountains better.
11:23:00  <peter1138> Oh, and png writing code.
11:23:07  <Eddi|zuHause> the code was always designed to handle more terrain generators, just nobody ever implemented any
11:23:25  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, not really.
11:23:42  <peter1138> Just easy enough to do as you have source :p
11:24:46  <fonsinchen> The IGNORE_UNINITIALIZED_WARNING stuff doesn't work with gcc 4.2.1
11:26:54  <peter1138> Cool, that's only 7 years old.
11:27:15  <Rubidium> stock gcc for 10.4?
11:27:29  <fonsinchen> That's what you get on OSX 10.6
11:27:54  <Rubidium> should that have clang?
11:28:16  <fonsinchen> it has, but our configure likes gcc better
11:29:02  <peter1138> CC=clang CXX=clang++ ./configure
11:29:05  <peter1138> or something
11:30:02  <Eddi|zuHause> remember when we supported compilation on gcc 2.ancient?
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11:34:14  <fonsinchen> This is the only problem I'm seeing with gcc 4.2 and it's only warnings. We can probably add another condition around that macro
11:34:54  <argoneus> good morning train friends
11:36:53  <supermop> you still havve a server argoneus ?
11:36:58  <argoneus> yes
11:39:40  <supermop> what version is it running now?
11:42:48  <supermop> do people run nightly servers?
11:43:14  <argoneus> yes
11:43:16  <argoneus> and 1.4.3
11:43:21  <Rubidium> Brianetta does
11:43:44  <Eddi|zuHause> like, 8 years ago? :p
11:45:17  <peter1138>
11:45:20  <peter1138> Well... that's different.
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11:47:36  <Rubidium> peter1138: it's not really pretty at 63 heightlevels anymore
11:47:48  <peter1138> I was using 31.
11:47:56  <peter1138> I think you need *massive* maps for more.
11:48:05  <Rubidium> yeah, then it looks reasonable
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11:52:42  <peter1138> Rubidium, there's 4 rounds of perlin noise on that :S
11:52:52  <peter1138> Combined in different ways.
11:53:12  <andythenorth> is there a ghost face in it?
11:53:28  <fonsinchen> I see bin laden in there
11:54:01  <Eddi|zuHause> is that like seeing jesus on a toast?
11:54:01  <Wolf01> there's a cat on the bottom left
11:54:51  <Eddi|zuHause> has this turned into a Rorschach test?
11:56:32  <Wolf01> I would like to unleash the full power of MHL by drawing another alpine map, but my finger doesn't like what I want it to do :(
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11:57:15  <andythenorth> I drew some maps once
11:57:18  <andythenorth> big rivers and stuff
11:57:21  <andythenorth> rubbish
11:58:34  <Eddi|zuHause> somebody made a switzerland map here
11:58:36  <Wolf01> if only i were able to draw nice heightmaps...
11:59:18  <peter1138> A lot of these heightmaps are scaled to only have very very levels
11:59:27  <peter1138> Means they suck when you scale it up.
12:00:10  <Wolf01> is there any way to draw an heightmap by hand?
12:01:16  <supermop> mspaint
12:01:17  <Wolf01> I always seen them taken from real maps of 3d landscapes
12:01:25  <Wolf01> *or
12:01:26  <supermop> charcoal and a scanner
12:02:53  <andythenorth> just draw
12:02:59  <andythenorth> then add noise or blur
12:03:06  <JacobD88> Charcoal and a Scanner i did actually try once :)
12:03:09  <andythenorth> then add clouds on another layer
12:03:10  <Wolf01> I once tried with paint, but in game looks like a posterized image
12:04:16  <andythenorth> even in photostrop, it’s not worth the effort
12:04:34  <Wolf01> I can't get the scale
12:04:49  <Wolf01> in game is really better to make things, as you directly see them
12:05:27  <Wolf01> but with the current terrain tools is a pita
12:05:59  <Wolf01> or better, a huge pain in the finger
12:08:51  <andythenorth> hmm
12:09:03  <JacobD88> Out of interest; with the new heightlevels in nightlies does the heightmap map generator also support generating more levels yet? Or are we still limited to it only recognising 16?
12:09:09  <andythenorth> wonder if I could write something in pil
12:09:22  <peter1138> Why would it only recognise 16?
12:09:36  <JacobD88> 00 - 0F 	0m (sea)
12:09:36  <JacobD88> 10 - 1F 	30m
12:09:36  <JacobD88> 20 - 2F 	70m
12:09:36  <JacobD88> 30 - 3F 	100m
12:09:36  <JacobD88> 40 - 4F 	130m
12:09:37  <JacobD88> 50 - 5F 	170m
12:09:37  <JacobD88> 60 - 6F 	200m
12:09:39  <JacobD88> 70 - 7F 	230m
12:09:39  <JacobD88> 80 - 8F 	270m
12:09:41  <JacobD88> 90 - 9F 	300m
12:09:41  <JacobD88> A0 - AF 	330m
12:09:43  <JacobD88> B0 - BF 	370m
12:09:43  <JacobD88> C0 - CF 	400m
12:09:45  <JacobD88> D0 - DF 	430m
12:09:45  <JacobD88> E0 - EF 	470m
12:09:47  <JacobD88> F0 - FF 	500m
12:10:10  <andythenorth> thanks
12:10:10  <andythenorth> useful
12:12:03  <peter1138> I don't know where that comes from.
12:12:21  <JacobD88> The wiki...
12:12:35  <peter1138> Ok, well that doesn't reflect the code.
12:13:05  <peter1138> It's also not how it worked anyway.
12:15:23  <JacobD88> May be worth a wiki update/correction then... I always assumed it was a demonstration of how the generator applied colour ranges to particular levels in the game; for example greys in the 60-6F range would appear on the 6th tile level from sea level...
12:15:53  <peter1138> Yup, it's a wiki.
12:17:52  <peter1138> It makes no sense to have a lookup table for that. It's just value * height_levels / 255, (255 being the limit of an 8 bit value)
12:18:35  <peter1138> (Except the game also converts RGB to greyscale in case anyone makes an RGB heightmap)
12:20:16  <peter1138> I guess it's bit more complex with all the palette crap that's going on... meh
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12:23:47  <JacobD88> That's useful to know... Thanks...
12:23:47  <JacobD88> I think the look up table was only there to help people work out where differentiation between greys would affect what level detail would appear on, and therefore how much contrast between greys they would need to get fine details on their heightmap without losing things...
12:23:47  <JacobD88> If the game already supports 8-bit depth equating to 255 tiles of height then the table is definitely defunct...
12:24:38  <peter1138> andythenorth, :S
12:25:24  <andythenorth> peter1138: that one’s Jesus
12:25:27  <andythenorth> or Russell Brand
12:25:32  <andythenorth> hard to tell them apart
12:25:45  <andythenorth> oh no it was my reflection in my glossy screen :P
12:25:46  <peter1138> heh
12:25:48  <peter1138> looks better in game :p
12:26:21  <JacobD88> *like*
12:27:25  <Rubidium> isn't that slender?
12:27:32  <andythenorth> peter1138: just tested it, pretty good
12:27:36  <peter1138> Heh
12:27:42  <andythenorth> sweeping coastline, long rivers
12:28:40  <andythenorth> 1024x1024 is huge :O
12:28:43  <peter1138> I like the way the coastlines are long but not featureless.
12:28:46  <peter1138> Yeah, that too.
12:29:22  <peter1138> And the water is... not spread all over the map.
12:29:44  <peter1138> Difficult to bridge all that
12:29:57  <andythenorth> lots of little islandy bits in SE
12:30:03  <andythenorth> needs a bigger mountain though ;)
12:30:10  <andythenorth> how did you make it?
12:30:53  <peter1138> Multiple perlins, and another generator
12:32:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r27040 trunk/src/stdafx.h (2014-10-25 12:32:42 UTC)
12:32:49  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Don't use GCC diagnostic push/pop if unsupported
12:35:54  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27041 /trunk/bin/baseset (8 files) (2014-10-25 12:35:48 UTC)
12:35:55  <DorpsGek> -Update: ob* translations
12:44:27  * peter1138 generates a 4096x4096 map for "fun"
12:44:44  <Rubidium> @seen fun
12:44:44  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: I have not seen fun.
12:45:05  <peter1138> :)
12:45:13  <peter1138> Hmm, need a progress meter :p
12:49:05  <supermop> later
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12:59:04  <andythenorth> hm4.png is nice in tropic
13:02:52  <Eddi|zuHause> George: so these are the currently "active" IDs:
13:03:18  <Eddi|zuHause> George: anything beyond that must be done by you
13:04:07  <peter1138> andythenorth, how many levels?
13:04:41  <peter1138> Hmm, 31 is ok. 63 makes the desert too bumpy.
13:04:49  <peter1138> Also, long river, nice.
13:06:18  <JacobD88> Time to try out this heightmap :)
13:06:53  <peter1138> Too much contrast
13:07:44  <peter1138> Oops, left it on tropic :p
13:08:13  <peter1138> Yeah, cos the constrast everything is at least 3 high.
13:08:19  <Eddi|zuHause> "real" heightmaps need rotating by 45°
13:08:35  <peter1138> Good idea.
13:08:48  <peter1138> gimp to the rescue.
13:09:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it annoys me that so many people don't do that...
13:09:38  <peter1138> There are gaps in the levels, so this is already munged :(
13:10:04  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 45º ?
13:10:25  <peter1138> No. 45°
13:10:33  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so in-game north is up.
13:10:48  <andythenorth> peter1138: I had it on 28
13:11:01  <andythenorth> figures
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13:20:07  <peter1138> Bah, got it wrong. Norfolk's flooded.
13:20:15  <JacobD88>
13:20:25  <JacobD88> I got this with the heightmap posted earlier
13:20:26  <andythenorth> ‘real’ heightmaps never appealed much :P
13:20:29  <JacobD88> height levels 32
13:20:43  <andythenorth> norfolk’s often flooded
13:20:58  <JacobD88> ha ha ha
13:21:08  <andythenorth> I think hm4.png is a future classic
13:21:13  <andythenorth> just make 200 more
13:21:25  <andythenorth> hookup the world gen to randomly select a heightmap
13:21:25  <andythenorth> job done
13:21:54  <peter1138> Haha
13:22:22  <peter1138> Problem with real heightmaps is you know it's trying to be real but it's not real enough... or something.
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13:23:35  <andythenorth> uncanny valley
13:23:42  <andythenorth> same reason most 32bpp sucks
13:25:50  <planetmaker> :) bad bad valley that
13:26:13  <andythenorth> frosch123: what happened to your FIRS supply boost patch?
13:26:17  <andythenorth> did you commit it? :P
13:26:36  <peter1138> But still many people say zBase is better...
13:26:55  <andythenorth> that’s because reasons
13:26:59  <andythenorth> mostly ogfx
13:27:21  <andythenorth> also most people lack taste
13:27:36  * peter1138 ponders trying to shoehorn this code into OpenTTD.
13:28:06  <andythenorth> you might as well
13:28:11  <andythenorth> or just bundle a load of heightmaps
13:28:14  <andythenorth> and a randomiser
13:28:15  <andythenorth> valid
13:28:27  <peter1138> :S
13:28:45  <peter1138> It's much slower for large maps.
13:28:57  <andythenorth> how big are the pngs?
13:29:49  <frosch123> andythenorth:
13:29:51  <peter1138> 1m27 to make a 2048x2048 map :(
13:29:56  <andythenorth> is there a format for ‘package of n pngs’ that we could put on bananas?
13:29:58  <peter1138> which is 1MB
13:30:17  <andythenorth> ship a bunch of packs, choose one to randomise from
13:30:37  <andythenorth> ‘alpine’, ‘islands’ etc
13:30:41  <andythenorth> 64 pngs in each
13:30:42  <peter1138> Hmm, weird looking map.
13:30:49  <frosch123> andythenorth: if you add it, ^Spike^ does no longer need to keep old-paste running
13:30:58  <andythenorth> frosch123: just commit it :P
13:31:03  <andythenorth> you have rights no?
13:31:04  <frosch123> i think it's the last paste i regulary link to, after adding the specs for smoke
13:31:15  <frosch123> andythenorth: technically i have rights to all repos
13:31:25  <frosch123> but technically is not always appropiate :)
13:31:52  <andythenorth> well I’m happy if you do this
13:31:57  <andythenorth> I cba to compile FIRS
13:32:01  <andythenorth> takes way too long
13:33:30  <frosch123> well, i think my patched nml currently has some syntax errors
13:36:41  <George> Eddi|zuHause: Thank you for your help, reordering code parts helped. How could you generate such list? Mabe this informmation could be achived from NMLC in case error?
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13:39:26  <andythenorth> frosch123: SUPPLY_BOOST_QUADRUPLE and SUPPLY_BOOST_DOUBLE should be made less specific?
13:39:33  <andythenorth> SUPPLY_BOOST_LOTS, SUPPLY_BOOST_SOME
13:39:41  <andythenorth> or SUPPLY_BOOST_FEW
13:39:58  <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, should there be more than 3 production levels?
13:40:09  <andythenorth> dunno
13:40:11  <andythenorth> probably not
13:40:13  <frosch123> should the supply amount be configureable? or only the boost muliplier?
13:40:19  <andythenorth> but it might 1.5x, 2x
13:40:23  <andythenorth> or 2x, 4x
13:40:26  <andythenorth> or 3x, 12x
13:40:28  <andythenorth> or whatever
13:40:29  <andythenorth> dunno
13:41:34  <frosch123> i'll play a bit with it, when my nml is ready again
13:41:58  <andythenorth> might hide it all behind a single player parameter
. supplies model: Gentle | Intense | Insane
13:42:02  <andythenorth> something like that
13:42:33  <frosch123> i see it more as some adjustment to map/vehicle/year conditions
13:42:52  <andythenorth> o_O ?
13:44:04  <frosch123> well, it depends how you want to play the game, do you want to deliver few supplies, or lots; do you want boost easy achievable or hard, and shall boost flood your network, or only give you a fancy medal
13:44:55  <andythenorth> agreed
13:44:56  <frosch123> so, i wonder about 3 to 4 parameters: number of supplies needed for boost, effect of boost, and scale between some/lots boost
13:45:12  <andythenorth> I think for player, that’s too many tbh
13:45:29  <andythenorth> maybe it’s person preference, but I find overwhelming numbers of params
overwhelming :)
13:45:37  <andythenorth> personal / person /s
13:45:56  <frosch123> maybe i can get away with two, but i don't consider many parameters bad
13:46:23  <andythenorth> IKEA effect :P
13:46:34  <frosch123> imho a industry effect should be adjustable to rv, train and ship games :p
13:48:15  <frosch123> as default i would make the first boost level somewhat easy achievable, as in: you likely get it, if you deliver supplies at all
13:48:26  <TomyLobo> i'm usually removing §train_length's worth of signals after a split or intersection. does that make sense for joins as well?
13:48:43  <frosch123> while the second level should be hard, i.e. you really need to commit to delivering supplies to a specific industry
13:49:11  <frosch123> TomyLobo: imho no :p
13:49:16  <planetmaker> TomyLobo, place signals where you can allow a train to wait without disturbing your other traffice. I'd say 'no', but the answer might vary on circumstance
13:49:46  <TomyLobo> it's a pure join on a > $train_length*3 track
13:50:50  <TomyLobo> on the middle of it
13:51:09  <frosch123> anyway, i can make sense to skip 1 or 2 signals, so you have some gap between trains
13:51:31  <frosch123> that way, your trains do not need to slow down because of curve anomalies of the train in front or something
13:52:33  <peter1138> Signal every tile!
13:52:35  <peter1138> :(
13:53:06  <frosch123> we could hard-lock signal distance 1 to enabling infra costs :p
13:53:41  <andythenorth> frosch123: first boost level < 20t?
13:53:47  <andythenorth> that covers most sensible cases
13:54:03  <peter1138> :D
13:54:51  <andythenorth> hmm
13:54:57  <andythenorth> also some
13:55:09  <andythenorth> permit 270º turns
13:55:15  <andythenorth> also trains jumping over each other
13:55:22  <andythenorth> these are from my kids
13:56:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: psst, turning more than 180° makes you turn less
13:56:24  <andythenorth> they do it with brio
13:56:37  <andythenorth> when they hit a trailing point
13:56:41  <andythenorth> (junction)
13:56:52  <frosch123> i think aircraft somewhen did that
13:57:14  <frosch123> instead of turing 45° left, turn 315° right
13:59:06  <andythenorth> trains jumping over each other would solve all signalling issues
13:59:57  <frosch123> there are games, where you can only move if you can jump over something else
14:00:22  <frosch123> "draughts" in english
14:00:33  <andythenorth> do that with trains
14:00:40  <andythenorth> instead of signal spacing, train spacing :P
14:01:03  * peter1138 ponders docks, again.
14:01:19  <andythenorth> you should
14:01:39  <andythenorth> just implement bouys-are-docks
14:01:45  <andythenorth> then we can all go home again
14:02:22  * andythenorth hmms at Road Hog
14:02:29  <andythenorth> these trams are not realisms for britain
14:02:55  <George> Eddi|zuHause: could you please make the same list for the current xUSSR set, so I could see how many IDs left?
14:05:41  <TomyLobo> do powerplants still stay forever?
14:05:55  <planetmaker> I expect 60000 IDs being left overall and 6000 for articulated vehicles.
14:06:04  <planetmaker> TomyLobo, yes. And will. Unless you use NewGRFs
14:06:15  <TomyLobo> ok
14:07:53  * andythenorth should implement electricity
14:08:00  <andythenorth> too lazy
14:09:21  <TomyLobo> frosch123 yeah i have a signals every 2 tiles on straights.
14:09:26  <Wolf01> gah, crashed the game loading a heightmap
14:09:31  <TomyLobo> and no funky curves :)
14:09:43  <Wolf01> uhm, no it un-crashed
14:11:48  <Wolf01> damn, it looks really good with 32 height levels, but some mountains have flat top
14:13:36  <andythenorth> 32 is about right
14:14:13  <George> planetmaker: We are speaking about spriteIDs
14:14:57  <Wolf01> ok, this time it crashed
14:15:41  <peter1138> You're talking about action2 ids
14:17:31  <Wolf01> mmh, it dies on river generation
14:18:25  <Quatroking> is it possible to use ctrl-click to remove railroad signals instead of changing them?
14:18:41  <Wolf01> I would like that too
14:19:02  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: this is about action2-IDs, not vehicle IDs
14:19:30  <fonsinchen> Wolf01, Quatroking press 'r' if you need a keyboard shortcut for that
14:19:30  <Quatroking> would be nicer to put the "change signal" on alt-click instead or something
14:19:58  <Wolf01> fonsinchen, I know, but I often play on touch screen with no keyboard :P
14:20:00  <Quatroking> fonsinchen, eh, that works, kinda, but I always have my left hand on the arrow keys so I can easily move the viewport while working
14:20:19  <Quatroking> so pinky goes on ctrl/shift
14:20:53  <Wolf01> the best thing I can have is a pen with gestures, but I may only have 8 of them and the same ones for every software
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14:21:36  <planetmaker> ah, the evil action2 IDs
14:22:22  <andythenorth> is there a limit? :o
14:23:13  <planetmaker> no. and yes. 255 in a single sequence
14:23:21  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: not an absolute limit, but a concurrent limit
14:23:53  <andythenorth> use nfo
14:23:55  <andythenorth> problem solved
14:23:58  <andythenorth> or write simpler grfs
14:24:02  <andythenorth> FIRS hits the limit though
14:24:06  <andythenorth> unsolvably
14:24:12  <andythenorth> I just binned features to solve it
14:24:41  <Quatroking> I'm loving these stations btw
14:25:02  <Quatroking> it's also nice to see that the AI also makes use of them
14:27:26  <Wolf01> this heightmap is wonderful, but I can't get a good setting to generate it "flawlessly", the rivers are too enbanked or the mountains top are cut :/
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14:55:57  <peter1138> xz on a 70GB file probably wasn't a good idea. Took hours...
14:56:36  <peter1138> Wolf01, yeah, it's been made for 16 height levels, because... reasons?
14:57:59  <peter1138> Apparently people had some weird misconceptions as to how heightmaps work.
14:58:54  <andythenorth> what did they do?
14:58:59  <andythenorth> surely a heightmap is 0-255?
14:59:11  * andythenorth never checked, just assumed that when making them
14:59:30  <Eddi|zuHause> George: looks like you have IDs 1..18 never used in the end
14:59:45  <Eddi|zuHause> but getting this information is rather tricky
15:00:52  <George> Eddi|zuHause: you mean I have small reserve (18 IDs) after reorganisation of set
15:01:01  <Eddi|zuHause> George: yes
15:01:30  <andythenorth> bah 2048x2048
15:01:58  <andythenorth> so slow to generate
15:02:17  <peter1138> andythenorth, lots seem to specifically only use values at match 16 height levels.
15:02:31  <peter1138> s/at/which/
15:02:31  <George> And how hard  is it to get this number (IDs left)  or how hard is it for you (if I ask you to check someday again?)
15:03:03  <Eddi|zuHause> George: ID 0 is used by some internal NML stuff, and the lowest otherwise used ID is 19 for "er2_v2_h_sprites_right"
15:03:11  <andythenorth> that map Wolf01 linked is interesting
15:03:15  <andythenorth> deep ravines for rivers
15:03:22  <andythenorth> looks good, bet it’s boring to play
15:03:59  <Eddi|zuHause> George: it's not hard for me, but it's some hacky pieces of code i wouldn't want to let loose on the general public
15:04:21  <George> Ok, I'll ask then :D
15:05:00  <George> I mean ask you next time I have this problem
15:05:11  <George> Thank you
15:13:32  <andythenorth> maybe I should do more steam traction engines for Road Hog brit roster, instead of trams
15:13:34  <andythenorth> for realisms
15:13:41  <andythenorth> have to dibble the speed though
15:19:14  <andythenorth> herp
15:19:18  <andythenorth> bored of thinking
15:19:24  <andythenorth> maybe I play peter1138’s heightmap
15:19:31  <andythenorth> with some GS
15:20:26  <andythenorth> SV again :P
15:22:55  <frosch123> peter1138: maybe those heightmaps were saved by openttd?
15:23:08  <frosch123> i.e. load heightmap into ottd, make some adjustments in scenario editor, and resave
15:25:26  <andythenorth> “Disable airport date restrictions” \o/
15:25:28  <andythenorth> cheating?
15:25:54  <Eddi|zuHause> that should probably also apply to NewGRF stations
15:26:15  <Eddi|zuHause> or... vehicles...
15:28:02  <peter1138> Yeah, maybe.
15:28:31  <peter1138> andythenorth, ships!
15:31:49  <andythenorth> ship!
15:31:50  <andythenorth> ?
15:32:01  <peter1138> Yes it's ready.
15:34:22  <andythenorth> frosch123: can I have a non-random SV?
15:34:27  <andythenorth> I know which cargo type I want
15:34:34  <andythenorth> I assume that’s impossible
15:34:43  <andythenorth> due to grf
15:35:01  <peter1138> Hmm, that map in snow with 127 height levels... is a bit...
15:35:12  <andythenorth> inverted pyramid
15:35:36  <peter1138> Yeah but not that bad.
15:35:44  <peter1138> Maybe double size will help.
15:35:48  <peter1138> I'll never fill the map though.
15:36:22  <andythenorth> I’ve got it on 512x512
15:36:26  <peter1138> oo
15:36:27  <andythenorth> at 32 height levels
15:36:50  <peter1138> The in-game scaler is terrible :(
15:36:56  <peter1138> Nearest neighbour I think.
15:37:03  <andythenorth> it has taken 15 mins to get a GS goal that I want to play on a map that I want to play :P
15:37:19  <andythenorth> is there a console command like newgame, but for heightmap?
15:40:16  <peter1138> So many farms...
15:40:51  <peter1138> This calls for... Very Low
15:41:34  <andythenorth> firs farms, or vanilla?
15:41:36  <andythenorth> or yeti?
15:41:46  <peter1138> vanilla
15:42:14  <peter1138> Hmm, weird stretchmarks :(
15:42:47  <Eddi|zuHause> farms are the only thing that prevents the map getting filled with trees
15:43:11  <Wolf01> indeed, we need prairies
15:43:23  <peter1138> Hmm, not much snow with height 32.
15:58:24  <TomyLobo> can 1.4.4 connect to 1.4.3?
15:58:33  <TomyLobo> is that a good idea?
15:58:57  <Eddi|zuHause> no
15:59:08  <Eddi|zuHause> versions must match exactly
16:06:30  <andythenorth> can GS raise/lower terrain?
16:13:23  <frosch123> not themself, they need some company
16:13:59  <frosch123> non-random sv is tricky, you cannot query a list of the cargos in the options menu, because they are not known at that point
16:14:19  <frosch123> so, you can either allow setting a number between 0 and 31, or you can add a list of all known cargos
16:14:22  <frosch123> both options suck :p
16:14:41  <andythenorth> is there a ‘player choice’ option in GS?
16:14:48  <andythenorth> on a dialog at game start?
16:15:08  <frosch123> somewhat, but not really
16:15:15  <frosch123> you can ask questions
16:15:23  <frosch123> but the answers are yes/no and such :p
16:16:05  <frosch123> you could create some menu with signs
16:16:15  <frosch123> select the cargo sign you want to play with :p
16:16:15  <andythenorth> k :)
16:16:18  <andythenorth> nvm
16:16:23  <andythenorth> shame about terrain
16:16:31  <andythenorth> I invented a GS called ‘When the Levee Breaks"
16:16:37  <andythenorth> lowers random tiles along shores
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16:16:54  <frosch123> zuu did some reverse scenario about that
16:16:55  <andythenorth> also another one that raises large mountains (“Volcanoes”) at random
16:17:06  <andythenorth> “Misty Mountain Hop"
16:17:11  <frosch123> when you meet some goal, it created a land bridge to some island
16:17:21  <andythenorth> considered “Stairway to Heaven”, but eh, “No stairway"
16:17:22  <andythenorth> denied
16:17:34  <frosch123> andythenorth: ah, just play ottd 0.6 :p
16:17:46  <frosch123> seismic activity :)
16:17:51  <andythenorth> :P
16:17:55  <andythenorth> was that a thing?
16:19:09  <frosch123> there was some bug report in the forums, about seismic activity, and the land shape changing in some area
16:19:17  <frosch123> turned out, it was the old ai :)
16:28:12  <andythenorth> maybe I should learn squirrel
16:28:32  <andythenorth> I have an idea to blend NCG and SV
16:29:33  <andythenorth> at game start you are given a challenge to deliver x amount primary cargo to a specific industry
16:29:47  <andythenorth> challenge is quite easy
16:30:08  <andythenorth> when you win, you get a new challenge to deliver the produced secondary cargos, maybe to 2 destinations
16:30:15  <andythenorth> when you win those it starts again
16:30:35  <andythenorth> it could stay quite linear, or it could branch insanely, depending on what’s more fun
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16:33:03  <argoneus> this is great
16:37:42  <peter1138> Is it?
16:38:42  <peter1138> Ah so he transforms into a lady. Ok.
16:39:11  <Wolf01> heeeeeee is a woman. sheeeeeeeeeee is a maaaaan
16:39:51  <peter1138> Meh, happens all the time. Not usually so quick though.
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16:41:42  <TheSerb> Hi
16:43:09  <TheSerb> Does anyone have an idea when to make a mainline for trains
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16:45:37  <planetmaker> right as the first thing when starting
16:47:30  <TheSerb> i am asking this because i am used to the network that is explained on the openttd wiki
16:48:02  <andythenorth> at any time in the game is fine
16:48:06  <andythenorth> it is a train game, so it’s ok
16:48:13  <planetmaker> :)
16:48:20  <planetmaker> build it when needed
16:51:09  <TheSerb> thanks alot :D i love this community
16:51:19  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what your definition of "main line" is
16:51:28  <TheSerb> now im going to play some openttd
16:52:02  <TheSerb> eddi i meant the sistem that is explained on the openttdcoop wiki
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16:52:09  <Eddi|zuHause> the "real" definition of "main line" puts limits on inclination and curve radius, "branch line" has less such restrictions
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17:02:07  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, tends to me some weird combo of LLLL_RRRR or something stupid.
17:02:17  <peter1138> in this thing
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17:06:47  <andythenorth> 18 tracks
17:06:51  <andythenorth> all maglev
17:07:21  <peter1138> With a signal every tile.
17:08:53  <andythenorth> no
17:09:02  <andythenorth> you need room for the escape depots
17:09:17  <peter1138> And priority lines.
17:16:12  <Eddi|zuHause> we should probably be concerned about the number of people who think "openttdcoop" and "openttd" are the same thing
17:17:08  <andythenorth> we should delete road vehicles
17:17:29  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: likewise with forum & openttd
17:17:38  <planetmaker> do people think so? The latter, yes
17:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: just read above. he did confuse "openttd wiki" and "openttdcoop wiki"
17:18:33  <peter1138> Bah, yes, docks on rivers...
17:19:08  <andythenorth> silly
17:19:18  <andythenorth> raise land, build massive canal basin
17:19:29  <andythenorth> bouys as docks :P
17:19:37  <andythenorth> no new graphics needed
17:19:50  <planetmaker> hehe :)
17:20:13  <Eddi|zuHause> that is a stupid TTDPatch-style hack
17:20:15  <andythenorth> also one step closer to ultimate goal
17:20:22  <andythenorth> reimplementing TTDP
17:20:26  <andythenorth> then all will be well
17:20:33  <andythenorth> humanity saved etc
17:21:21  <andythenorth> am I the only one who never played TTDP?
17:21:56  <planetmaker> Probably I played it. In ye ol' ol' times in a galaxy far far away. But not in the last 7 years
17:22:13  <planetmaker> it simply refused to run for me
17:22:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i played TTDP 1.6 or 1.7
17:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause> long before there were NewGRFs
17:22:50  <peter1138> I pretty much only used it to compare features.
17:23:10  <Eddi|zuHause> then i played half a game of simutrans
17:23:25  <andythenorth> why are hacks stupid?
17:23:42  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: because they damage development in the long run
17:24:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and that is stupid, because we are not on a deadline or anything
17:24:51  <peter1138> How should docks work then?
17:25:07  <andythenorth> I should be able to build them easily
17:25:10  <andythenorth> on rivers
17:25:12  <peter1138> It would make things vastly simpler if the docking tile was water.
17:25:14  <andythenorth> yes
17:25:15  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i want them to work like airports...
17:25:16  <andythenorth> like a bouy
17:25:21  <andythenorth> multi-stop or other wise :P
17:26:00  <frosch> i want airports to work like roads :p
17:26:04  <andythenorth> just build it, ships go to it
17:26:08  <Eddi|zuHause> with the added bonus that a seaplane port may be used by ships as well :p
17:26:09  <peter1138> Why like airports?
17:26:09  <andythenorth> why complicate? o_O
17:26:13  <peter1138> Airports are a pain in the bum.
17:26:21  <andythenorth> airports are quite tedious :)
17:27:17  <andythenorth> peter1138: make a bouy-docks patch? I’ll test it
17:27:22  <andythenorth> forget multi-stop stuff for now?
17:27:37  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there are probably half a dozen such patches out there
17:27:37  <andythenorth> most of the cases where mult-stop is ‘needed’, I just bulldoze land
17:27:47  * andythenorth -> forums
17:28:00  <peter1138> I'm not even talking about multiple docks, heh.
17:28:25  <andythenorth> hmm
17:28:28  <andythenorth> can’t find a patch
17:28:31  <andythenorth> in forums
17:29:00  <frosch> install ttdp in dosbox
17:29:06  <frosch> measure the time till you ragequit
17:29:31  <andythenorth> it’s awesome no?
17:29:40  <andythenorth> I thought it was considered superior?
17:29:42  <andythenorth> genuinely
17:29:51  <andythenorth> just non-maintainable
17:30:14  <frosch> yeah, in mediaval times it was awesome to take a dump in the backyard
17:30:17  <planetmaker> frosch, not sure it's measurable
17:30:20  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it misses all the useful UI features that you're used to
17:30:36  <andythenorth> but it has better physics, better signals, better construction options
17:30:46  <andythenorth> more features
17:30:56  <andythenorth> proper locks
17:30:57  <frosch> andythenorth: i played ttdp 2.0 for two years, then switched to ottd 0.4
17:31:06  <andythenorth> build on tunnels, custom bridgeheads
17:31:11  <frosch> around ottd 0.7 i tried to play a ttdp game just for the lolz
17:31:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it has overcomplicated signals, useless physics, and no autorail tool
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17:31:31  <andythenorth> will it run on Windows XP?
17:31:47  <frosch> it was astonishing how many interface features it lacked
17:32:06  <frosch> andythenorth: dosbox runs about everywhere
17:32:06  <Eddi|zuHause> bridge heads and tunnel heads are the only genuinely missing feature of openttd. in all other places it has long surpassed TTDP
17:32:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i've had no problems running TTDP in wine
17:33:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i've no dos GRFs anyway
17:33:05  <frosch> andythenorth: it's a clear case of false memories :)
17:33:14  <andythenorth> I am considering binning Iron Horse metro due to lack of tunnel head building
17:33:18  <frosch> whatever you enjoyed in tha past
17:33:19  <andythenorth> swap it for trams
17:33:28  <frosch> don't considere trying it again, it will be disappointing
17:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but if you do that, you bin metro-trams because of lack of roadtypes in two months...
17:34:47  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch: like i was appalled how i could ever play a game like SC2000
17:35:00  <frosch> can we somehow duplicate andy, put one copy into a fridge, and after 3 months let them discuss with each other?
17:35:23  <andythenorth> I already have that in my head
17:35:26  <andythenorth> it’s like fight club in there
17:35:27  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch: you mean a freezer :p
17:35:30  <andythenorth> I just watch from the outside
17:35:37  <frosch> Eddi|zuHause: possibly
17:36:18  <peter1138> Hmm, CBH
17:37:06  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i'd like to piece together bridges
17:37:32  <michi_cc> Play Locomotion :p
17:37:47  <peter1138> My horses breakdown :(
17:37:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a locmotion CD, i never even installed it...
17:38:03  <peter1138> I played it.
17:38:06  <peter1138> It wasn't fun.
17:38:07  <andythenorth> horsies are daft
17:38:12  <peter1138> Yeah but it's 1702
17:38:40  <Eddi|zuHause> why are you playing with breakdowns anywaY?
17:38:46  <andythenorth> masochism
17:38:56  <andythenorth> so who has a bouys patch?
17:38:57  <peter1138> Apparently to find issues like this
17:39:29  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm sure i have seen one recently. might be in the new map features patchpack
17:40:12  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: the default breakdown sound and animation with horses is kinda funny :p
17:41:21  <Eddi|zuHause> was the newgrf effect stuff ever applied to breakdowns?
17:41:59  <frosch> it's speced, but not implemented
17:42:01  <andythenorth> metros,%2011-02-1921.png
17:42:25  <andythenorth> either signal tunnels (stupid idea), or build-on-tunnel-entrance would be nice
17:42:30  <TomyLobo> is hiding fences possible?
17:42:37  <andythenorth> yes
17:42:44  <andythenorth> turn off detail
17:42:46  <peter1138> Yeah, turn off full detail
17:43:58  <Eddi|zuHause> it will also hide a bit of other stuff like road reconstruction vehicles
17:45:30  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27042 trunk/src/lang/irish.txt (2014-10-25 17:45:23 UTC)
17:45:31  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:32  <DorpsGek> irish - 265 changes by tem
17:47:56  <peter1138> Hmm, so are bits 0-3 of Tile::type unused?
17:48:25  <frosch> the bridge bits and climate were moved there iirc
17:48:57  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: what does docs/landscape* say?
17:48:59  <frosch> you can now implement bridges over houses and industries
17:48:59  <peter1138> Hmm, I see.
17:49:08  <andythenorth> could use that right now :P
17:49:16  <frosch> since the bridge bits are available for those now
17:49:16  <andythenorth> want to build elevated metro
17:49:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd settle for bridges over road stations
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17:50:10  * planetmaker mumbles 'hack' :P
17:50:45  <frosch> planetmaker: don't worry, the gpu will solve all issues
17:50:59  *** jinks [~jinks@] has joined #openttd
17:51:10  <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to that guy anyway? :p
17:51:38  <frosch> he's here every day
17:52:06  <frosch> left 14:21 today
17:52:26  <planetmaker> whom?
17:52:34  <peter1138> liq3
17:52:44  <planetmaker> oh
17:52:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm really terrible at remembering names
17:52:59  <frosch> the gpu guy, who said that the gpu can sort sprites, if they are already sorted
17:53:33  <peter1138> Sounds useful
17:53:49  *** pixar- [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:53:56  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, I only know cos I looked up who left at 14:21 :p
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17:54:11  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i did that as well :p
17:54:12  <frosch> how did you manage to translate time zones?
17:54:13  <peter1138> Hmm, don't have any of my old CBH patches.
17:54:25  <peter1138> frosch, by being not American.
17:54:33  <frosch> fair enough
17:55:03  <frosch> oh, it's actually happening today, isn't it?
17:55:09  <frosch> you know, time travel and stuff
17:55:18  <peter1138> Well, tomorrow morning.
17:55:19  <Eddi|zuHause> no, tomorrow.
17:55:38  <Eddi|zuHause> well, depending on your definition of "day" :p
17:56:21  <Eddi|zuHause> if the new day begins when you wake up, then yes, it's probably today.
17:56:58  <Eddi|zuHause> on a related note:
17:57:59  <planetmaker> is' klar, Eddi|zuHause ;)
17:59:36  *** jinks [~jinks@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:00:23  <planetmaker> oO Someone didn't understand nml's sprite templates:
18:01:00  *** jinks [~jinks@] has joined #openttd
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18:08:32  *** SHOTbyGUN [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:09:14  <peter1138> Well
18:09:16  <peter1138> I don't.
18:14:23  *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
18:14:26  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
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18:24:00  <planetmaker> evenink
18:24:06  <Alberth> hi hi
18:24:25  <Alberth> I just commented how quiet it is here, and you arrive :)
18:25:24  <planetmaker> :P
18:25:37  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
18:26:01  <andythenorth> it has been a nice day
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18:27:17  <LordAro> evenink planetmaker
18:27:24  <LordAro> & andythenorth
18:28:10  <planetmaker> o/
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18:39:18  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, my windows firefox apparently doesn't support h264 video... what's the usual way to install codecs on windows?
18:41:24  <Prof_Frink> Go to a dodgy site and decide which of the codec packs looks least untrustworthy.
18:42:02  <peter1138> Hmm, mine supports H.264, but not enough of the other stuff.
18:42:20  <peter1138> Missing Media Source Extensions and WebM VP9.
18:44:18  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's what it looked like on linux
18:46:44  *** jinks [~jinks@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:47:52  <Eddi|zuHause> hmm... that didn't work...
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18:52:33  <andythenorth> ugh
18:52:37  <andythenorth> docks on rivers
18:55:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: ok, this one wasn't the least untrustworthy... after the third "we want to install this spyware" tab i gave up :p
18:59:06  *** jinks [~jinks@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:59:58  <Prof_Frink> This is why we vlc.
19:01:54  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but vlc lacks a youtube navigator :p
19:07:52  *** jinks [~jinks@] has joined #openttd
19:14:03  <andythenorth> HMM
19:14:07  <andythenorth> game is fun
19:16:12  <Quatroking> started using the music from the original ttd again
19:16:14  <Quatroking> feels good man
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19:26:56  * andythenorth tries it
19:27:34  <andythenorth> hmm
19:27:38  <andythenorth> mixed ships much anyone?
19:27:40  <andythenorth> mail + pax
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19:56:05  <TomyLobo> is there a newgrf that allows steam/diesel and electric engines on monorail and maglev tracks/stations/depots?
19:56:46  <Wolf01> nuTracks afair
19:57:06  <peter1138> Ew, why?
19:58:16  <Wolf01> maybe he wants to replace everything
19:58:20  <TomyLobo> exactly
19:58:39  <TomyLobo> Wolf01 is nutracks exactly for that purpose?
19:58:54  <TomyLobo> or does it do all kinds of other things that break my save? :)
19:58:57  <Wolf01> no, but it does have an universal rail type
19:59:11  <peter1138> Lazy bastards, back in my day we had to do it all by hand, no cloning or anything...
19:59:21  <Wolf01> eh, it certainly breaks your save
20:01:36  <Sylf> sounds like the job for universal rails
20:02:49  * Sylf is lazy down to the bone
20:06:05  <b_jonas> ugh
20:12:19  <andythenorth> shall I just lower this river to sea level?
20:12:21  <andythenorth> for faster ships
20:14:48  *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:b400:99b6:7dcb:fc3] has quit [Quit: .]
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20:20:28  <peter1138> andythenorth, this map is hard :(
20:20:38  <andythenorth> hm4.png?
20:20:41  <peter1138> Yes
20:20:47  <andythenorth> I am having a lovely time with it
20:20:49  <andythenorth> best game in ages
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20:25:22  <andythenorth> hmm
20:25:24  <andythenorth> funny thing
20:25:33  <andythenorth> cdist eliminates transfers
20:25:51  <andythenorth> but for freight, I still use transfer+leave empty, to prevent unwanted links being formed
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20:48:47  <Quatroking> question: why does real life speed up 5x whenever I play openttd?
20:52:35  <Xaroth|Work> it's not a bug, it's a feature
20:53:41  <glx> happens with civ too
20:58:08  <Rubidium> Quatroking: probably because playing openttd is 5 times more fun than normal real life?
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20:58:49  <MTsPony> I think there's a bug with the new height level patch
21:00:51  <Rubidium> there's a new patch for that?
21:02:15  <MTsPony> The patch that made it into trunk.
21:02:42  <MTsPony> A heightmap i still had loaded up fine and now shows artifacts
21:02:58  <MTsPony> I assume Map Height 15 is the original default? Or was it 16?
21:03:05  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27043 trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp (2014-10-25 21:02:59 UTC)
21:03:06  <DorpsGek> -Fix: could not enter third digit of snow line height
21:03:45  <Rubidium> 15 was the original
21:03:50  <MTsPony> Does that affect a Tropic map DorpsGek?
21:04:02  <peter1138> HEH
21:04:07  <peter1138> Tropic has snow?
21:04:08  <MTsPony> :D
21:04:21  <MTsPony> Who knows, with a height level of 30 :P
21:04:41  <MTsPony> Oh well I guess Ill fill in a bug report.
21:08:06  <frosch> MTsPony: some issue around that was fixed in r26984
21:08:13  <frosch> so i hope you are not using something older
21:09:59  <MTsPony> openttd-trunk-r27042-windows-win64
21:10:22  <MTsPony> I might have an idea why its happening, I really dont hope this was intentional or accepted as working as intended though
21:10:42  <peter1138> None of us knows what your problem actually is, so...
21:14:08  <MTsPony> I filed a bug report so, you can read up there if you're interested,
21:15:18  <frosch> yes, that is a new feature
21:15:25  <frosch> only 0 is sea now
21:15:38  <andythenorth> definitely need to fix farms supply boost
21:15:45  <andythenorth> quadruple is just boring
21:15:57  <frosch> previously it height levels were always rounded towards zero, now it's >0 or ==0
21:16:07  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
21:16:09  <MTsPony> :(
21:16:12  <MTsPony> Guess no bug then
21:16:22  <peter1138> Else sea level would change depending on height levels.
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21:16:38  <MTsPony> Wouldnt it be more logical whenever height 15 is chosen it takes the legacy method?
21:16:47  <MTsPony> Because this is kind of annoying now
21:17:23  <frosch> just fix the source image?
21:19:01  <fonsinchen> should fix FS#5812
21:19:22  <fonsinchen> I don't want to commit it before testing on a mac with backtick as dead key, though
21:19:41  <fonsinchen> andythenorth ^
21:19:55  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:20:14  * andythenorth looks
21:20:46  <peter1138> So... worldgen preview?
21:21:09  <frosch> do it :)
21:21:19  <peter1138> Hmm...
21:21:27  <peter1138> Also... threading...
21:21:31  <frosch> but i guess you need to remove global vars from tgp and such
21:21:39  <peter1138> I generate separate perlin maps, that could be threaded.
21:21:42  <frosch> not generating into the map and such
21:22:05  <peter1138> Screw tgp, generating into a float array.
21:22:45  <Quatroking> which addon do you guys suggest for extra industries?
21:23:09  <frosch> depends what you want :p
21:23:28  *** pixar [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:23:33  <frosch> the key is to use different challenges in different games
21:23:45  *** pixar [] has joined #openttd
21:23:58  <peter1138> :S
21:24:06  <andythenorth> where’s diff in github :P
21:24:15  * andythenorth is too used to bitbucket :P
21:24:17  <frosch> andythenorth: add ".diff" to the url
21:24:21  <Quatroking> industries such as sweatshops, japanese whalers and chinese bootleggers, frosch
21:24:22  <frosch> or was it ".patch"?
21:24:31  <andythenorth> .diff
21:25:09  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: \o/
21:25:15  <andythenorth> that is so much better :)
21:25:32  <andythenorth> I use ` all the time to open / close console for reload_newgrfs
21:25:37  <andythenorth> been driving me nuts :)
21:25:45  <Quatroking> I wish I was a better spriter, then I could add these industries myself
21:25:50  <frosch> Quatroking: anyway, if you only want slightly different than original, you can use "ogfx+industries", if you want something expermental new use "yeti", otherwise use "firs" but not the "full firs" economy
21:25:57  <fonsinchen> I just fear that I broke r26006 with that
21:26:05  <fonsinchen> michi_cc did that for a reason
21:26:32  <andythenorth> I saw the commit
21:26:33  <fonsinchen> but clearly he assumed all backticks would be dead keys
21:27:04  <andythenorth> peter1138: is that 64x1024 or something?
21:27:15  <andythenorth> I thought the image had timed out :P
21:27:23  <peter1138> 2048x256
21:27:23  <fonsinchen> andythenorth, Do you also have that funny effect that you get two ~ if you type shift-backtick?
21:27:30  <peter1138> Does your browser not tell you in the title bar? :p
21:27:34  <Quatroking> frosch, "FIRS Industry Replacement Set"?
21:27:35  <andythenorth> oh it does
21:27:38  <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
21:27:54  <frosch> Quatroking: yes, but make sure to check the settings, and choose an economy that is not "full firs" :p
21:28:13  <andythenorth> I should default to something other than Full FIRS
21:28:15  <andythenorth> or rename
21:28:17  <peter1138> Hmm, should replace this "faultgen" system. It's too slow :(
21:28:19  <andythenorth> ‘Insane'
21:29:08  <Quatroking> alright, so which economy do I choose?
21:29:11  <Quatroking> it defaulted to FIRS
21:29:22  <andythenorth> which climate are you playing?
21:29:30  <Quatroking> choices are Temperate Basic, Arctic Basic, Tropic Basic, Heart of Darkness
21:29:33  <Quatroking> I haven't chosen yet
21:29:42  <Quatroking> do I just put it to whatever I plan on playing?
21:29:47  <andythenorth> choose the Basic for the climate you want to play
21:30:00  <andythenorth> or Heart of Darkness for tropic
21:30:07  <Quatroking> Alright
21:30:08  <michi_cc> fonsinchen: r26002 was related to the initial changed/improved IME input, but as this area was changed a lot more since then it might be obsolote now.
21:30:18  <Quatroking> thanks
21:30:29  <andythenorth> HoD is closer to sweatshops and chinese bootleggers than you know
21:30:56  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: shift-backtick just gets me a tilde char in console (~)
21:31:24  <fonsinchen> interesting, I get 2. Another bug ...
21:31:55  <Quatroking> andythenorth, oh?
21:32:12  <fonsinchen> michi_cc, Can you test if the fix works on your mac?
21:32:25  <Quatroking> by the way FIRS is compatible with OpenGFX+, right
21:32:37  <frosch> only ever use one industry set
21:32:38  <michi_cc> Which mac? There's no mac :p
21:32:56  <fonsinchen> Oh, I thought you had a mac with backtick as dead key.
21:33:04  <Quatroking> oh okay, so then I have to turn off opengfx+ industries?
21:33:10  <frosch> yup
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21:35:37  <michi_cc> fonsinchen: It's called VMware, only that apple doesn't want that at all without some hacking/patching of OS X. There are enough things that still don't work so I'd never consider this representative in any way.
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21:48:28  <peter1138> Hmm, that thing MTsPony was talking about is why there's loads of flat land on my heightmaps, I think, even though I'm expecting only 0 to be sea.
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21:50:12  <frosch> yeah, height level 1 has a bigger percentage of grey levels
21:51:00  <frosch> one could change the scaling again, and distribute the levels > 0 evenly, but that would be incompatible with all older height maps
21:51:20  <frosch> hmm, would it? maybe not
21:52:08  <frosch> @calc (16 - 1) * 255 / 15
21:52:08  <DorpsGek> frosch: 255
21:52:17  <frosch> eugh...
21:52:24  <frosch> obviouis :)
21:52:41  <peter1138> :)
21:56:52  <frosch> @calc (16 - 1) * 15 / 255 + 1
21:56:52  <DorpsGek> frosch: 1.88235294118
21:57:08  <frosch> @calc (16*15 - 1) * 15 / 255 + 1
21:57:08  <DorpsGek> frosch: 15.0588235294
21:57:26  <frosch> that's actually what i wanted :)
21:57:46  <frosch> so, scaling grey level 1 to 255 evently to the heightlevels would stay compatible
22:03:50  <frosch> <- so, would that be better?
22:05:55  <fonsinchen> michi_cc, I was just guessing you did r26002 for a reason. That reason may be that you have a different keyboard than I have, which may have created problems with accented characters
22:06:30  * peter1138 tests
22:06:30  <fonsinchen> Now I was hoping that you might be able to check if the problem you fixed with r26002 is still fixed with my patch.
22:07:55  <fonsinchen> But ok, if not, then maybe just say "no" ...
22:14:41  <peter1138> Hmm, changes pretty much all the map quite subtley.
22:14:56  <peter1138> Coastline is the same though
22:15:20  <frosch> all of the map, except the coastline should be marginally higher
22:15:21  <peter1138> I think it's better, there's no weighing towards height level 1.
22:15:24  <frosch> height level 2 starts earlier
22:15:32  <peter1138> *nod*
22:18:51  <peter1138> Yeah, height level 15 makes massive parts of it flat.
22:22:45  <michi_cc> fonsinchen: You're patch doesn't work in my VM (start ottd, press key twice, console opens, press key twice, console closes. from now on the console opens/closes with a single key press until a character is pressed which will get accented (e -> ê). Repeat.), but history has shown that this might or might not be valid in comparison to a real Mac.
22:24:11  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27044 trunk/src/heightmap.cpp (2014-10-25 22:24:05 UTC)
22:24:12  <DorpsGek> -Change (r26905, r26984): Scale heightmap greyscales > 0 evenly to heightlevels > 0, instead of giving heightlevel 1 a bigger loading. Sea level remains at pure black only.
22:26:01  <MTsPony> :o
22:26:35  <frosch> that doesn't change your scenario :p
22:26:49  <MTsPony> Uh.. I was just admiring the view ;
22:26:50  <MTsPony> ;P
22:27:25  <MTsPony> im surprised my heightmap still looks decent with a 30 level height
22:27:32  <MTsPony> well perhaps its not that surprising
22:28:21  <MTsPony> ugh implementing desert tile height level in last trunk, but i got the widget names swapped haha.
22:32:43  <fonsinchen> thanks michi_cc, that's very interesting to know
22:35:13  <fonsinchen> Apparently even with dead keys it generates some kind of character in the event's characters string.
22:37:02  * andythenorth -> bed
22:37:03  <andythenorth> bye
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22:38:41  <michi_cc> Maybe the real culprit is VideoDriver_Cocoa::EditBoxLostFocus(). That is supposed to clear any pending compositions.
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22:47:04  <frosch> night
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23:14:58  <Wolf01> 'night
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