Config
Log for #openttd on 3rd November 2014:
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08:19:20  <supermop> playing iron horse, a little fed up with loading speed of the wagons i made a train of a 'gridiron' pulling a rake of 7 'slammers'
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11:32:31  <__ln__> http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/11/why-gandhi-is-such-an-asshole-in-civilization/
11:34:46  <Flygon> Dem integers
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13:09:39  <George> Hi
13:10:15  <George> a question about safe properties change
13:10:37  <Jinassi> dont ask to ask, just ask
13:10:48  <George> Would be safe to change wagon weigth depending on amount of cargo loaded
13:11:20  <George> For example. if the wagon is empty it weigths 25t
13:11:34  <Jinassi> weight multiplier does something of sorts
13:11:34  <George> in case it is not, it weigths 30t
13:12:12  <George> No, it is not weight multiplier based question
13:12:39  <George> it is container transportation based question
13:13:24  <George> in case there is a container on the platform, the weight of platform is increased on the weight of container
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13:20:12  <Eddi|zuHause> just to make sure, a file called "/core" from over 3 years ago i can safely delete?
13:20:19  <peter1138> :)
13:20:29  <Jinassi> hilfe bitte
13:20:34  <Jinassi> welp
13:21:28  <Eddi|zuHause> also fun: a file called "/C:\nppdf32Log\debuglog.txt"
13:25:20  <George> Eddi|zuHause: may be you know?
13:25:44  <George> Is it safe to change wagon weigth depending on is it empty or not
13:26:17  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i don't know that
13:26:32  <Eddi|zuHause> but i'd expect it should be safe
13:26:39  <Eddi|zuHause> like changing max speed
13:27:04  <Eddi|zuHause> if it's not safe, it should be made safe.
13:29:07  <planetmaker> George, sounds like a magic wagon which adjust its weight depending on the amount of cargo loaded
13:29:29  <planetmaker> mind that the container is considered cargo and thus has its own weight already
13:29:31  <George> read above
13:29:42  <planetmaker> yes, I did. And I really don't understand what you're asking
13:29:45  <George> no, container is not a cargo
13:30:08  <planetmaker> yes, it's cargo packaging
13:30:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't agree with that, planetmaker.
13:30:24  <George> there is 1 ton of food in container (1 ton loaded from plant) increases weigth by 6
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13:30:43  <George> 5 ton is container and 1 is food
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13:31:26  <George> when I unload I unload 1 ton of food, not 6 ton of food
13:31:48  <planetmaker> you load a container with whatever is inside. From the train perspective
13:32:24  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that only works if "container" is a vehicle itself (which then would get the 5t property)
13:32:37  <peter1138> Can you at least spell weight correctly? :S
13:34:31  <George> peter1138: sorry, KVirc does not have build in spellchecker and chat itself does not allow fix strings like skype
13:34:38  <peter1138> :)
13:34:38  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the point (as far as i understand it) is: if you load 1t of fruit onto a hopper wagon, you add 1t of weight, if you load 1t of food to a flatbed wagon, you add 6t.
13:34:41  <argoneus> good morning train friends
13:34:56  <peter1138> Anyway, I think it is safe, though I have not confirmed it.
13:35:32  <peter1138> Whether or not it is a good feature is another matter that I'm not going to get into :)
13:35:39  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes, I understood that.
13:36:16  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you can assume that a cargo measured in crates or bags has the weight of the crate or bag included, but assuming a container is included is quite a stretch
13:36:55  <peter1138> It shouldn't be noted that not all properties can depend on cargo count, so maybe it's not safe in general. In which case my "is it safe" code will need some... adjusting.
13:37:05  <peter1138> ...
13:37:14  <peter1138> Should, not shouldn't.
13:37:28  <planetmaker> that were many negations peter1138 . Not sure I followed :)
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13:37:49  <peter1138> Only the first one was wrong.
13:38:04  <peter1138> If you still can't follow, I can't help you :p
13:38:19  <planetmaker> :) If the first is not negative, it's easier :)
13:38:38  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a phrase recently like "tobacco without non-natural additives is not necessarily less unhealthy" or so :p
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13:43:36  <Jinassi> That was from a true PR, a statementt so wild that not many can comprehend it, yet it can be withdrawn next day, without making any fuss.
13:43:52  <Jinassi> Or a politician.
13:44:27  * Jinassi vapes
13:44:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't actually know the source
13:45:42  <peter1138> Sometimes my NAS spits out ridiculous uid/gids :S
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13:56:56  <George> so, conclusion? It is safe to change weigHT on loading|unloading cargo
14:01:18  <peter1138> 13:34 <@peter1138> Anyway, I think it is safe, though I have not confirmed it.
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14:29:18  <V453000> XD George and his features
14:29:20  <V453000> 1t is 6
14:29:21  <V453000> awesome
14:29:59  <V453000> do you then have a wagon with 4t food capacity? but weight increasing by 24t?
14:30:12  <V453000> and the wagon carries 4 containers?
14:31:19  <V453000> guess you would need to force the food plant to output e.g. 1 container per 10t grain delivered because otherwise you will get a FLOOD of food trains XD
14:31:54  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: obvoiously, 4t food would be 9t
14:34:49  <V453000> 4t in 1 container? :D
14:34:54  <V453000> or?
14:36:38  <Eddi|zuHause> if you assume that a flatbed wagon holds 2 containers, the function would be: load=0 => 20t, load <= 50% => 25t, load > 50% => 30t
14:38:22  <V453000> right
14:39:38  <V453000> still quite wtf. :)
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14:46:50  <peter1138> Breaks the purchase list info, certainly.
14:51:20  <V453000> obviously :)
15:01:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what the additiional purchase text is for
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15:14:11  <peter1138> Hrmm, this Neil Young track is... terrible :S
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16:21:18  <Marshy> Is the Canadian Stations set available anywhere, or did it disappear when Oz did?
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16:34:54  <peter1138> Nope.
16:35:17  <peter1138> If you have a savegame that uses it, you might be able to grab it if it was on Bananas.
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16:50:30  <Marshy> No, I only recently started playing again, so no saved games
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17:46:07  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27054 /trunk/src/lang (irish.txt portuguese.txt) (2014-11-03 17:45:59 UTC)
17:46:08  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:09  <DorpsGek> irish - 9 changes by tem
17:46:10  <DorpsGek> portuguese - 40 changes by vesgo
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18:07:34  <frosch123> @seen andythenorth
18:07:34  <DorpsGek> frosch123: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 21 hours, 43 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <andythenorth> bye
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18:34:07  <andythenorth> o/
18:34:37  <frosch123> hmm, 26 minutes to summon
18:35:49  <frosch123> andythenorth: is 40% speed-up on re-compile worth 20% slow-down on first compile?
18:35:57  <andythenorth> yes
18:36:11  <andythenorth> define ‘first’ :)
18:36:20  <andythenorth> are you implementing a cache?
18:36:41  <frosch123> i implemented caching the parser result
18:37:01  <andythenorth> what causes the cache to need invalidating?
18:37:09  <frosch123> that is, the "first stage" of the parser tree without resolving any references or stuff
18:37:35  <frosch123> so, the cache depend only on a single source file, not on other files
18:38:39  <frosch123> in the case of cets: parsing takes 53s, writing the cache takes 17s, reading it takes 10s
18:39:00  <frosch123> (parsing is about half of the complete compile time)
18:39:51  <frosch123> i think i rather need to cache at some later stage
18:40:14  <frosch123> that may depend on more sources, but the data should hopefully be more compressed
18:40:56  <frosch123> funnily the parsed syntax tree is 10 times bigger than the original source file :p
18:41:18  <frosch123> despite not having any comments, indenting or other things
18:44:40  <V453000> LOL our president freely uses vulgarisms in totally inappropriate places when being in a live recorded radio show, and like most of our republic approves of it
18:44:53  <V453000> obviously the more retarded "most of republic" but still
18:45:04  <V453000> welcome to 21st century morale quality
18:45:07  <andythenorth> frosch123: 40% is a big jump
18:45:32  <V453000> hi andythesouth
18:45:34  <andythenorth> if this could process independent source files, it might be a massive boost for vanilla nml (no nfo stuff)
18:46:02  <andythenorth> I did try briefly to figure out if we could process independent source files and link them in nmlc
18:46:13  <andythenorth> but I’m not good enough programmer :)
18:46:43  <frosch123> well, i have some more days to try stuff :)
18:47:27  <frosch123> i can't quite predict the result, but i'll keep experimenting
18:48:03  <andythenorth> I wasn’t sure how we’d tell nmlc what to actually load
18:48:18  <andythenorth> whether it would be @imports or #includes or whatever
18:48:24  <andythenorth> or some manifest file
18:48:46  <andythenorth> and preventing recursion and stuch
18:48:46  <andythenorth> such *
18:49:04  <frosch123> yeah, i gave that some thought. even pondered writing a blog about it :p
18:49:37  <andythenorth> o_O
18:50:08  <andythenorth> I don’t really know how it’s done in C++ either, except as much as I’ve used CPP syntax
18:50:36  <frosch123> well, if you change english.txt in openttd, you have to recompile about everything :p
18:50:43  <andythenorth> :P
18:50:44  <frosch123> so, that's the wrong route to take :p
18:51:06  *** Marshy [~oftc-webi@2.123.204.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:51:20  <andythenorth> all my compiles, the python script explicitly knows what files are needed and in what order
18:52:12  <andythenorth> which is reliable, but probably not very clever
18:58:02  <andythenorth> frosch123: out of interest, what format are the cache files?
18:58:16  <frosch123> pickle
19:00:14  <andythenorth> mmm pickles
19:00:20  <andythenorth> always makes me hungry
19:00:25  <andythenorth> don’t even like pickles irl :P
19:06:16  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host156-13-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
19:06:37  <Wolf01> hi o/
19:14:25  *** Celestar [~Celestar@p4FD6E476.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:22:19  *** syrioosh [~oftc-webi@89-70-84-225.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd
19:22:57  <syrioosh> hi, im new, is there a way to do that trucks carries goods to train station which is transported further ?
19:23:09  <syrioosh> by train
19:23:28  <Wolf01> use the "transfer" order
19:24:04  <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/Feeder_service
19:27:46  <syrioosh> thanks
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19:30:07  <planetmaker> syrioosh, alternatively you could play with cargodist. Then transfers happen automatically
19:30:35  <planetmaker> on the other hand it means that cargo develops a will on its own :)
19:32:41  <andythenorth> nah
19:33:00  <andythenorth> in my cdist game, cargo is going where I send it
19:33:05  <andythenorth> :)
19:33:07  <planetmaker> :)
19:33:19  <planetmaker> if you know how it works: yes
19:33:23  <andythenorth> just be very carefully about creating links
19:33:50  <andythenorth> it helps me that I treat it as a directed link graph
19:33:54  <planetmaker> but to the unaquainted user it is like "boah, it just wants to go places"
19:33:55  <andythenorth> which I assume is what cdist is
19:34:18  <andythenorth> yeah, it’s a bit distracting the idea that the cargo ‘wants’ to go somewhere
19:34:32  <andythenorth> it only made sense once I understood there is no destination, just next hop
19:35:49  <andythenorth> also cdist still struggles with very unbalanced routes on a cargo like supplies
19:35:54  <andythenorth> so I just don’t build those
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19:43:49  <syrioosh> just stick with regular version for now. Next sily question, any fast way to replace all old cars with new ones ?
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19:44:09  <syrioosh> cloning ?
19:44:10  *** MTs-iPad [~MTs-iPad@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd
19:44:54  <michi_cc> http://wiki.openttd.org/Replace_vehicles#Autoreplace or http://wiki.openttd.org/Autorenew#Autorenew depending on what to replace with what.
19:46:46  *** MTs-iPad [~MTs-iPad@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:50:20  <syrioosh> great, thnaks
20:03:37  *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88]
20:04:45  *** MTs-iPad [~MTs-iPad@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd
20:05:14  <argoneus> ayy
20:07:30  <andythenorth> also where is cat?
20:09:00  * NGC3982 looks for his cats
20:28:52  <andythenorth> oh fuck
20:28:58  * andythenorth did a wall of text, didn’t mean to do that
20:31:45  <peter1138> IRC, wall of text, coming up from my server
20:32:10  <peter1138> etc etc
20:32:52  <andythenorth> RoadTypes etc etc http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1135523#p1135523
20:32:59  <andythenorth> don’t even know if I’m right :)
20:35:46  <peter1138> Nah, there's plenty of space in the map array.
20:39:59  <andythenorth> for 16 types on one tile?
20:40:52  <frosch123> there is enough space for one road and one tram per tile, each choosing from 16 types independently
20:41:43  <frosch123> basically there are enough bits to choose 2 road/tram types per tile with independent road bits
20:42:18  <frosch123> but all of that does not lead to proper dirt roads :p
20:42:25  <peter1138> Yeah
20:42:35  <frosch123> for dirt roads you need to roadtype on the edges, not on the tiles or something
20:43:31  <frosch123> we could change the road building system, so that a roadbit implies a roadbit on a neighbouring tile
20:43:47  <frosch123> then you can distribute the bits over two tiles, and assign a roadtype to the edge
20:44:59  <andythenorth> I thought eddi proved we needed at least 3 types per tile?
20:45:24  <andythenorth> so many discussions on it, /me can’t remember
20:45:29  <andythenorth> I used to save the transcripts :)
20:45:33  <andythenorth> I even had a branch
20:45:41  <frosch123> once you move the type to the edges... i doubt it makes sense to have more than 1 road and 1 tram per edge
20:47:03  *** miho [~oftc-webi@77.119.232.50.static.drei.at] has joined #openttd
20:47:40  <miho> Hello there.
20:49:15  <peter1138> But there's 4 edges...
20:49:37  <frosch123> yes, but every edge has 2 tiles
20:49:37  <planetmaker> there's how many road dir bits?
20:50:23  <peter1138> 4
20:50:27  <frosch123> so you only need bits for 2 edges per tile, and you can even save bits for the roaddirs, if enforcing roadbits to always connect two tiles
20:50:44  * andythenorth looks at old transcripts
20:50:49  <andythenorth> there’s some issue with catenary
20:50:58  <andythenorth> if two types both provide catenary
20:51:00  <peter1138> And a single road tile by itself?
20:51:10  <peter1138> andythenorth, irrelevant
20:51:31  <frosch123> a single roadtile wouldn't exist anymore
20:51:58  <frosch123> no longer dead-locked trams :)
20:52:47  <peter1138> :o
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20:57:53  <andythenorth> ho
20:57:54  <andythenorth> “flags: catenary, tracks, town_grows_along, allow_level_crossings, use_default_depot, use_default_stops"
20:58:00  <andythenorth> there was even a spec :o
20:58:10  <andythenorth> how quaint
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21:07:37  <miho> Is there something like http://simutrans.ovh/ available in the OTTD community?
21:09:09  <peter1138> .ovh ... wtf?
21:09:53  <andythenorth> not that I’ve seen
21:10:41  *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: Quitting.]
21:11:04  <miho> peter, .ovh is one of these new top level domains.
21:11:19  <planetmaker> let me guess... owned by... OVH? :D
21:11:48  <miho> yep, gave away for free to OVH vserver and dedicated owner the first weeks.
21:12:03  <planetmaker> funnily they didn't approach us ;)
21:12:33  <miho> but the service linked isn't in anyway dedicated to OVH
21:13:03  <miho> in fact it is has been developed and is activley maintained by me ;)
21:13:09  <planetmaker> true
21:13:24  <planetmaker> I see
21:13:33  <frosch123> what does that ".ovh" stand for?
21:13:50  <frosch123> some non-english abbreviation or somethnig?
21:13:50  <planetmaker> frosch123, for our service provider
21:14:09  <miho> just used .ovh because it doesn't cost anything and most other simutrans.tld already gave away
21:14:12  <frosch123> planetmaker: that i know
21:14:23  <frosch123> but i assume you cannot just request your own top-level domain
21:14:30  <miho> frosch123: OVH is a France and Canadin internet service prvider.
21:14:55  <miho> You can. Since 2014, but it costs quiet a lot of bucks.
21:15:00  <michi_cc> frosch123: You can: http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/
21:15:06  <planetmaker> "Obwohl auf den Unternehmensnamen bezogen, ist die Domain-Endung laut einer Pressemeldung frei fÃŒr jedermann registrierbar. ..."
21:15:17  <frosch123> ok...
21:15:22  <frosch123> how much does .frog cost? :p
21:15:29  <planetmaker> :D
21:15:37  <frosch123> .ottd ?
21:15:50  <miho> something between hundert millions and a billion... so not possible I guess :P
21:15:51  <planetmaker> now, that would be fun :)
21:16:05  <frosch123> seriously? will every big company just do that? .google, .facebook?
21:16:30  <miho> In fact OVH has been the first internet service provider who has spend money on that. Since they made it really expensive to get such top level domains.
21:16:50  <planetmaker> they're europe's biggest one. So they can afford it
21:16:59  <andythenorth> frosch123: yes they will
21:16:59  <peter1138> Yeah, so icann totally fucked up the domain name system...
21:17:09  <miho> yep :P
21:17:10  <planetmaker> they did, yes
21:17:11  <andythenorth> ‘fucked up’ / ‘sold out’ /s
21:17:34  <miho> but there are nice new domains like ".vienna" or ".shop" and so on too
21:17:50  <andythenorth> I wonder what had pissed me off on this day http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1060268#p1060268
21:17:51  <planetmaker> they're totally unneeded really
21:17:58  *** Jomann [~abchirk@p4FE21662.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
21:18:02  <miho> You are right.
21:18:04  <andythenorth> 5 years earlier, when that thread started, it was a much nicer andythenorth
21:18:15  <andythenorth> I think we see pre- and post- children andythenorth
21:18:33  <planetmaker> lol
21:18:58  <peter1138> RGB company colours: because easyjet orange...
21:19:10  <andythenorth> RGB vehicle colours
21:19:14  <andythenorth> because trainspotters
21:19:25  <andythenorth> and my four year old
21:19:27  <peter1138> What's a train?
21:19:32  <andythenorth> yes
21:19:35  <andythenorth> exactly
21:19:38  <miho> I've seen there are quite a lot servers online. Are they used activley? Or are most of them "zombie" servers?
21:20:32  <planetmaker> miho, so-so. Quite a number are actively played on. But lots are also not seeing much traffic, I guess
21:20:46  *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd
21:20:53  <planetmaker> http://www.openttd.org/en/servers <-- check client count
21:20:59  <andythenorth> hrm
21:21:04  <andythenorth> two lane RoadTypes?
21:21:09  <andythenorth> does that fit your bits?
21:21:34  <planetmaker> andythenorth, I think that would be different. Only two lanes per tile
21:21:43  <planetmaker> hm
21:21:56  <peter1138> $ bin/openttd
21:21:56  <peter1138> Crash encountered, generating crash log...
21:21:56  <peter1138> Segmentation fault
21:21:58  <peter1138> Cool :)
21:22:09  <frosch123> planetmaker:  ask jasper :)
21:22:11  <andythenorth> why can’t we have two lane railtypes?
21:22:11  <andythenorth> and two lane canaltypes?
21:22:27  <planetmaker> hehe. But... those are no roads ;)
21:23:28  <planetmaker> miho, on the other hand, I do think, if you should offer a similar service for OpenTTD, you might get some customers
21:23:41  <planetmaker> Not sure how many, but maybe a few. Would need time to get known :)
21:23:54  <planetmaker> But there are time and again people in forums who aks how to host a server etc
21:23:59  <miho> Yes, that was what I've been thinking about.
21:24:07  <andythenorth> hmm
21:24:22  <planetmaker> main difficulty is making a web administration interface for openttd servers
21:24:37  <planetmaker> though it's rather work than difficulty
21:25:15  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/orange.png :o
21:25:17  <planetmaker> miho, and you could think of integration with an irc bridge
21:25:35  <miho> I don't think it is difficult. I've wrote the whole stuff for Simutrans too. There hasn't been anything related to running Simutrans server on Debian before.
21:25:36  <planetmaker> peter1138, let it burn burn burn! ;)
21:26:03  <miho> In case of OpenTTD I just needed to google a bit and already found some stuff.
21:26:46  <miho> In case of the Simutrans Hosting it is just some kind of wrapper around my init.d script. So this would be easy to port if I would write a similar init.d script for OpenTTD.
21:27:13  <planetmaker> miho, the challange is the NewGRF config support :)
21:27:31  <planetmaker> and script config
21:27:36  <peter1138> Black looks a bit weird.
21:27:52  <miho> Yeah, config in general has been the more tricky part in case of Simutrans too.
21:28:22  <andythenorth> peter1138: stavros orange is tidy
21:28:57  <planetmaker> binding the admin port to a web page, that's relatively easy on the other hand, half of it is done :)
21:29:36  <miho> I haven't played around much with OTTD network mode yet. So I can't tell what would be required.
21:30:13  <planetmaker> udp + tcp on ports 3977/8/9
21:30:27  <miho> Just some "start/stop/save" panel would be ported in less then an hour.
21:30:54  <planetmaker> you want to mimic at least the basic new game window in a web form
21:31:16  <frosch123> unless you just say that people shall upload a savegame :p
21:31:29  <planetmaker> :)
21:31:31  <frosch123> then you only need to make sure to always have all bananas content
21:31:44  <planetmaker> and offer a way to upload custom crap
21:31:54  <andythenorth> meh
21:32:00  * andythenorth is now obsessing on roadtypes
21:32:19  <frosch123> though in case of custom newgrf noone would be able to join anyway
21:32:22  <miho> this would be the cheap mans solution, but yes, it would be a first step in the right direction I guess
21:32:39  <miho> and it would be enough for a first test if there is interest in such a service
21:33:00  <planetmaker> well, give it a try :)
21:33:44  <miho> yeah, I'll give it try
21:34:11  <andythenorth> roads, trams without catenary, trams with catenary
21:34:16  <andythenorth> what else is needed, really?
21:34:21  <andythenorth> needed / fun /s
21:34:25  <andythenorth> nothing is ‘needed’ :P
21:34:48  <planetmaker> dirt, cobble stone, urban, country, highway
21:34:57  <planetmaker> and tram
21:35:16  <andythenorth> I dunno, how do you have more fun by making those choices?
21:35:32  <frosch123> maybe towns should claim shopping zones
21:35:34  <planetmaker> and monorail. and trolleycars. and ... whatever-on-can-think-of. Pipes probably
21:35:38  <frosch123> which allow no cars :p
21:35:51  <frosch123> or only busses, or only trams, but no trucks
21:36:11  <planetmaker> frosch123, is that a new disaster category? :)
21:36:13  <andythenorth> I dunno
21:36:19  <frosch123> :p
21:36:21  <planetmaker> "car free town" :P
21:36:30  <andythenorth> bearing in mind I had a thread in 2008 requesting roadtypes, with sprites and everything
21:36:35  <andythenorth> now I’m just not convinced
21:36:44  <peter1138> I dunno about choices...
21:36:45  <andythenorth> water types has not gone brilliantly imo
21:36:58  <planetmaker> the water types is not dead yet, andythenorth :)
21:37:02  <peter1138> But the standard roads look a bit silly when you start a game in 1700...
21:37:10  <andythenorth> ok so sprites, makes sense
21:37:13  <andythenorth> just wondering
21:37:14  <peter1138> Deep water!
21:37:19  <planetmaker> yes ^
21:37:27  <andythenorth> since day 0, assumption has been that RoadTypes is RailTypes, but for RVs
21:37:32  <andythenorth> but maybe it isn't
21:37:38  <frosch123> anyway, peter is about right that it does not need roadtypes to distinguish years
21:37:50  <frosch123> most of the rail track sets are completely stupid
21:37:52  <andythenorth> even the spec I have here (from 3 years ago) is just RailTypes transposed
21:37:52  <planetmaker> it just needs action5 :)
21:38:03  <andythenorth> catenary on/off doesn’t need types
21:38:05  <andythenorth> it’s just a flag
21:38:25  <frosch123> they extend the monorail/maglev upgrade nuisance to even more track types
21:38:31  <andythenorth> yes
21:38:39  <andythenorth> the speed limits crap
is just crap
21:38:46  <andythenorth> vehicles already have speed limits
21:38:49  <andythenorth> don’t complicate it
21:38:56  <frosch123> purr is likely the most useful trackset of all
21:39:02  <andythenorth> axle loading is the worst thing ever :P
21:39:05  <frosch123> it lets you at least colour your tracks for overview
21:39:07  <planetmaker> but only in conjunction with nuts
21:39:14  <frosch123> but all the sets with different speed limits are just bollocks
21:39:25  <peter1138> narrow gauge was okay
21:39:28  <planetmaker> yeah... I totally don't play with track types really
21:39:36  <peter1138> having it as a separate type beats having it replace monorail
21:39:43  <peter1138> but yeah, some sets are stupid
21:40:05  <peter1138> Action 3/2/1 for road/tram tiles
21:40:08  <peter1138> but not road types
21:40:16  <andythenorth> “but stupid sets..don’t make stupid specs”
21:40:17  <andythenorth> etc
21:40:27  <planetmaker> frosch123, nuts/purr colour tracks give advantage to different properties of the trains, like more curve speed or more power when happy or so :P
21:40:32  <frosch123> so, roadtypes like canals? :p
21:40:39  <peter1138> Variables: pseudorandomisation based on tile location, current year... that's about it :p
21:40:47  <peter1138> oh, and town shit
21:40:52  <peter1138> properties: none
21:41:02  <andythenorth> I keep trying to think how I’d fit even ‘trails’ into an actual game
21:41:06  <andythenorth> can’t find an answer
21:41:15  <andythenorth> everything would end up just on ‘best’ type
21:41:36  *** syrioosh [~oftc-webi@89-70-84-225.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:41:47  <frosch123> andythenorth: sounds like rivers
21:41:58  <andythenorth> rivers just get demolished
21:41:59  <planetmaker> andythenorth, trails etc would be for the landscape builders. Not for the economists
21:42:20  <peter1138> trails: newobjects
21:42:21  <andythenorth> well I invented a version in 2008 to justify HEQS
21:42:23  <andythenorth> after the fact
21:42:41  <andythenorth> with the usual ‘gameplay’ arguments about cost, speed, limitations etc
21:42:44  <andythenorth> boring
21:42:46  <planetmaker> peter1138, yes... that's possible. I have some sprites somewhere...
21:42:58  <andythenorth> yair, I have trail sprites here
21:42:59  <planetmaker> I wonder whether I actually released that as playable even
21:43:23  <frosch123> i am quite sure there was a object grf with trails
21:43:23  <peter1138> so yeah, just allow roads/trams to have variable graphics
21:43:26  <peter1138> sod the roadtypes crap
21:43:40  <andythenorth> can haz catenary on/off?
21:43:42  <andythenorth> o_O
21:43:53  <peter1138> yes, put tramtrack down
21:43:59  <andythenorth> no steam trams for peter1138
21:44:15  <andythenorth> I think a ‘powered’ flag would actually be interesting to arse about with
21:44:15  <planetmaker> seems I didn't release trail sprites
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21:45:18  <peter1138> built catenary separate to road or tram?
21:45:27  <peter1138> *build
21:45:28  <andythenorth> like signals-es
21:45:40  <planetmaker> ah, but sprites are all in ogfx-landscape source :D
21:45:43  <peter1138> catenary is the "3rd roadtype" lol
21:45:47  <andythenorth> CatenaryTypes :P
21:46:15  <peter1138> andythenorth,
21:46:25  <peter1138> custom graphics for tram tracks
21:46:33  <peter1138> custom graphics for catenary
21:46:49  <peter1138> before date x draw blank catenary
21:46:50  <peter1138> lol
21:46:56  <planetmaker> :D
21:46:59  <andythenorth> yup
21:47:04  <peter1138> appears instantly when electric trams appear
21:47:07  <andythenorth> just match it to the RVs newgrf
21:47:08  <andythenorth> :P
21:47:19  <andythenorth> oh we don’t like it when vehicle sets provide their infrastructure do we?
21:47:26  <andythenorth> because it’s better when the player has to go hunting :P
21:47:34  <andythenorth> I dunno
21:47:37  <andythenorth> it seems too simple
21:47:47  <andythenorth> without a ‘proper’ RoadTypes implementation
21:47:49  *** miho [~oftc-webi@77.119.232.50.static.drei.at] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
21:47:49  <andythenorth> how will I do
21:48:16  <planetmaker> it would be the state which we have bridges now
21:48:18  <peter1138> (yay, more openttd servers with nobody plyaying)
21:48:30  <andythenorth> “trams, 5’ gauge”, “trams, standard gauge”, “trams, 3’ gauge”, “industrial trams 2’ gauge”
21:48:37  <planetmaker> customizable but no action0
21:48:38  <peter1138> andythenorth, get out
21:48:43  <andythenorth> “asphalt road with 8t axle limit"
21:48:54  <andythenorth> “snowy asphalt road with reduced grip"
21:49:08  <andythenorth> “asphalt road with cats eyes"
21:49:19  <peter1138> GET OUT
21:49:23  <peter1138> :D
21:49:23  <planetmaker> next you want to increase vehicle weight when loading containers
21:49:28  <peter1138> lol
21:49:33  <andythenorth> “concrete road with surface degradation causing tyre noise, hence imposed speed limit 45mph"
21:49:43  <andythenorth> you see
21:49:43  <peter1138> andythenorth wasn't here then, right?
21:50:07  <NGC3982> It's actually quite fascinating how manye servers are online, contra the amount of players.
21:50:10  <NGC3982> :(
21:50:13  <planetmaker> anyway, g'night
21:50:40  <andythenorth> cos for all the RoadTypes, they still won’t overtake if articulated, nor use both lanes on one-way
21:50:48  <andythenorth> why is one way anyway?
21:50:53  <andythenorth> is it just for griefing?
21:50:59  <frosch123> NGC3982: servers are run by those who feel like running a server
21:51:14  <frosch123> NGC3982: clients pick the servers which have something special running
21:51:22  <andythenorth> bye planetmaker
21:51:30  <frosch123> like active admins, special scripts or some other community around them
21:51:51  <NGC3982> That is why i have like .25 players per server per day.
21:53:19  <andythenorth> hmm, so just extend newgrf, no RoadTypes, no speed limits, no tractive effort cb, no handling broken vehicle routing
21:54:05  <peter1138> fix overtaking separately
21:54:12  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:54:22  <peter1138> add one-way stretch detection
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21:54:53  <frosch123> ah right, one-way was another thing that should be applied to edges :p
21:55:05  <frosch123> can we rewrite ottd?
21:55:05  <peter1138> Yeah, definitely.
21:55:08  <peter1138> And then signals...
21:55:09  <frosch123> with signals on edges and such
21:55:14  <frosch123> :)
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21:59:23  <andythenorth> tunnels on edges
21:59:26  <andythenorth> edges on tunnels
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21:59:34  <andythenorth> bridges on bridges
22:00:03  *** rambo is now known as Guest333
22:02:07  <andythenorth> but also what was one way for?
22:02:16  <andythenorth> does it prevent deadlocks?
22:03:47  *** Guest299 [~jrambo@178-221-25-220.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:11:53  <frosch123> it's also for avoiding level crossing and such
22:12:01  <frosch123> and crowded roads
22:12:28  <frosch123> trains only drive on your tracks, but you cannot quite control where rv drive
22:12:37  <frosch123> that's what oneway is for
22:12:40  <andythenorth> makes sense
22:12:50  <andythenorth> I’ve tried to use it to control flow in and out of big stations
22:12:50  <frosch123> though it's not per company funnily
22:12:54  <andythenorth> with limited successs :)
22:14:15  <andythenorth> viz https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6064/trucks.png
22:14:16  <andythenorth> ha :)
22:14:55  <andythenorth> SV :P
22:15:57  <frosch123> are they all smoking?
22:16:06  <frosch123> they look like default rv, but they smoke
22:16:30  <andythenorth> they were proxy sprites in Road Hog iirc
22:16:38  <andythenorth> nicked from ogfx+
22:16:50  <andythenorth> but yes smoking
22:17:23  <andythenorth> this was better smoke https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6435/smoke.png
22:20:03  <andythenorth> also bedtime
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23:00:09  <argoneus> good night train friends
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