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Log for #openttd on 13th November 2014:
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04:49:43  <twenty319> Hello everyone
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05:01:30  <Supercheese> Evening
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07:15:38  <andythenorth> boink
07:15:44  <andythenorth> hola Pikka
07:18:37  <V453000> omg andythesouth
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08:04:28  <Supercheese> andythewest
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08:10:15  <supermop> trying to fund a bulk terminal - its the north most tile, right?
08:10:44  <andythenorth> yup
08:10:48  <andythenorth> not easy
08:11:17  <supermop> so this is on a "south east" coast, straight about 10 tiles long
08:11:23  <andythenorth> supermop: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7064
08:11:29  <supermop> nothing out in the water to block it
08:12:01  <andythenorth> I could only build them on SE coasts, using a very specific shape of land
08:12:08  <supermop> what odd land shap do i need?
08:12:10  <andythenorth> something like \————/
08:12:25  <andythenorth> ——\__________/--------
08:12:33  <supermop> protruding out into the water?
08:12:35  <andythenorth> yup
08:12:44  <andythenorth> nothing else worked
08:12:47  <supermop> how many tiles wide is the protrusion?
08:12:50  <andythenorth> it’s a bug that needs fixed, but eh
08:12:59  <andythenorth> I can’t remember how many tiles, sorry :)
08:13:19  <andythenorth> it was very annoying, I needed them to win a GS
08:13:21  <andythenorth> I lost :P
08:13:43  <supermop> do i click on the shore tile or the flat tile one inland?
08:13:48  <andythenorth> shore tile
08:13:56  <supermop> i also need this for my alcohol vally
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08:15:43  <supermop> maybe ill just build an island out at sea and have it point back the other way
08:16:07  <andythenorth> ok I just built one
08:16:19  <andythenorth> — \ - - -
08:16:24  <supermop> same
08:16:28  <andythenorth> or - \ _ _ _
08:16:35  <andythenorth> build on third tile from the notch
08:16:41  <supermop> it got it half way along my 8 tile \____/
08:16:49  <andythenorth> yup
08:16:49  <supermop> yeah
08:17:06  <supermop> hmmmm maybe i build two....
08:17:16  <supermop> certainly have enough oil to feed them
08:19:01  <__ln___> what http://www.hanselman.com/blog/AnnouncingNET2015NETAsOpenSourceNETOnMacAndLinuxAndVisualStudioCommunity.aspx
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09:13:54  <argoneus> ayy
09:14:33  <__ln___> http://ti.arc.nasa.gov/opensource/projects/mutil/
09:21:06  <Supercheese> Hmm, Latin is still locked on the Webtranslator... maybe manually committing an updated translation would help?
09:21:43  <planetmaker> Supercheese, does it mean you can't change anything?
09:21:48  <Supercheese> yes
09:21:50  <Supercheese> http://translator.openttd.org/en/status
09:21:53  <planetmaker> oh, ok
09:21:57  <Supercheese> "language locked"
09:22:02  <planetmaker> do you know which string broke?
09:22:42  <Supercheese> I messed up STR_CARGO_PLURAL_FRUIT and STR_CARGO_SINGULAR_FRUIT, forgot to change the genders to agree on all cases
09:22:55  <Supercheese> they're still listed as "waiting for commit"
09:23:08  <Supercheese> though viewing the repository source indicates they were committed
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09:23:49  <Supercheese> should have put them all to "mp", but accidentally left a few as "m"
09:24:29  <Supercheese> in truth, I'm not sure that every case needs genders set independently, as eints only wants the base string to have a set gender...
09:28:51  <planetmaker> hm before I start some wild action... I would want to ask Rubidium to check what actually is the case with the latin translation status / it being locked
09:29:13  <Supercheese> yeah, my analysis could be incorrect
09:29:26  <Supercheese> perhaps it had nothing to do with my blunder at all
09:29:29  <argoneus> I don't mean to be snarky
09:29:36  <argoneus> but do people play openttd in latin, which is literally a dead language?
09:29:53  <argoneus> or is it more there for completeness
09:30:14  <Supercheese> there was a feature request for it
09:31:15  <Supercheese> but it was primarily my initiative
09:33:13  <argoneus> ah
09:36:18  <planetmaker> argoneus, because we can! non solum id possumus, sed etiam utilians est
09:36:26  <argoneus> alea iacta est
09:36:41  <V453000> anus
09:37:18  <planetmaker> aleae non iactae sunt. Aleae iacturus sunt ;)
09:39:49  <planetmaker> hm. *iacturae
09:40:47  <argoneus> by the wya
09:40:52  <argoneus> is it common for brits/americans to learn foreign languages?
09:40:58  <argoneus> like, every foreigner ever learns english
09:41:07  <argoneus> do most englishmen learn something too?
09:41:40  <Supercheese> Well, a foreign language is required for secondary curricula, university as well
09:41:47  <V453000> some americans learn english :P
09:41:53  <V453000>  /PUN
09:41:53  <Supercheese> haha
09:43:35  <argoneus> what are some popular languages for  the brits?
09:43:38  <argoneus> french I assume?
09:45:16  <__ln___> i think english is quite popular over there
09:45:37  <V453000> XD
09:46:16  <planetmaker> Welsh, and Gaelic, too, as far as I heard
09:46:29  <peter1138> No, most English people don't learn another language.
09:46:49  <peter1138> Most of them find English hard enough, but mostly they don't care.
09:46:59  <__ln___> peter1138: that's sad. did you?
09:47:22  <peter1138> No, only French at school level, and that has left me.
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09:48:28  <peter1138> French was compulsory back then, but wasn't for much longer.
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09:49:01  <planetmaker> school level is better than nothing
09:49:20  <planetmaker> I find it surprising how far I can get in France with my "school level" command of that language
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09:50:34  <peter1138> Oui oui
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10:03:36  <argoneus> I have school level of spanish
10:03:42  <argoneus> but I doubt I would understand anyone in spain
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10:09:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i had 4 years of french and 2 years of spanish. but it all disappears somewhat if you don't regularly use it
10:09:24  <Eddi|zuHause> also, i had 8 years of english and barely could speak it
10:10:43  <peter1138> Je voudrais un bier, s'il vous plait
10:10:48  <peter1138> All the important stuff.
10:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i was in paris in 2000, and i had real trouble with finding the word "merci"
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10:14:49  <argoneus> test
10:14:58  <Eddi|zuHause> failed
10:15:10  <argoneus> seems like I only got kicked off freenode ;o
10:15:33  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing useful there anyway
10:17:29  <argoneus> rude
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10:20:41  <Marshy> Does anyone have a good knowledge of TTRS and would know why my larger cities seem to be just full of cinemas?
10:20:53  <Marshy> Apart from the citizens liking a good movie
10:23:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i never played very long with TTRS, because it just floods you with passengers and is not even pretty.
10:24:06  <Eddi|zuHause> but anyway, usually that is a sign of not enough choice for a certain town zone
10:24:08  <V453000> works with broken DBset XL :P
10:26:01  <Marshy> Mhhm, I just checked the readme and the first 'era' of buildings is 1920-1950
10:26:08  <Marshy> I'm in the 1890's
10:26:11  <Marshy> That might be why
10:26:17  <Marshy> What do you use instead of TTRS?
10:27:00  <Eddi|zuHause> the game tries to date back the first generation of houses so you always have at least one building available
10:27:33  <V453000> japanese buildings are great
10:27:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i kinda like swedish houses
10:27:45  <V453000> TTRS in late game has a lot of same buildings, japanese buildings vary more
10:28:01  <V453000> also japapense buildings dont do as much fuzz about the eras, they jsut work
10:28:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't flood you with skyscrapers
10:28:14  <V453000> the new japanese v3 doesnt either
10:28:22  <V453000> you can even have a "skyscraper restricting building"
10:28:29  <V453000> once you demolish it, then you allow skyscrapers
10:28:41  <Eddi|zuHause> but mostly i play with alpine (which is a variant of the default temperate houses with some snowy roofs)
10:29:09  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's quite an outdated set, so i wouldn't recommend it
10:30:44  <V453000> I think japanese buildings support snow too (:
10:31:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it's more complicated than that
10:31:36  <Marshy> Cool, thanks, I've got hold of the swedish houses which I'll try out, will get hold of japanese buildings too
10:31:45  <Marshy> Speaking of japanese, the rail set is fantastic
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10:32:04  <Eddi|zuHause> because for some weird reason, dbset will refuse to load in arctic climate, if alpine is not loaded at the same time
10:32:52  <Eddi|zuHause> Marshy: you get nicer results if you use swedish houses as the only house set, not mix it with other sets.
10:33:21  <Marshy> Ok, will try it out
10:33:45  <Marshy> Plus swedish and japanese buildings may look a little culturally odd
10:33:50  <Marshy> mixed together
10:35:17  <NGC3982> Boulderdash!
10:35:44  <Marshy> Or not
10:35:45  <Marshy> :)
10:36:40  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what that is
10:39:50  <Marshy> Oh, where I'm from 'boulderdash' means 'bullshit', which could be in reference to japanese and swedish buildings looking odd when mixed
10:40:00  <Marshy> But maybe I'm getting it wrong
10:42:16  <peter1138> Classic game, that.
10:43:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i know that it's a game, but i don't know the game.
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10:45:47  <peter1138> Move through the dirt, collecting gems, avoiding boulders which fall.
10:47:12  <peter1138> I guess that would have to be 3D accelerated these days...
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11:12:24  <Eddi|zuHause> that's like saying "it would have to be electric powered these days"
11:18:50  <__ln___> is starfleet some kind of a monarchy, where officer ranks are inherited?
11:20:27  <__ln___> or how can it be that every single admiral (except Kirk) is a totally incompetent leader and more or less insane besides that?
11:22:27  <Sacro> Dilbert principle
11:32:35  <Eddi|zuHause> if you think kirk is not incompetent and insane, you haven't paid a lot of attention
11:33:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: technically, it's called Peter-principle :p
11:33:39  <__ln___> a bit insane, sure, but not an incompetent leader.
11:34:06  <peter1138> I'm sure he his.
11:34:08  <peter1138> -h
11:34:14  <Eddi|zuHause> "everybody gets promoted until he fills a position he can't handle
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11:38:41  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: no, peter principle is different
11:39:21  <Sacro> Dilbert principle implies that middle management only exists for shifting crap
11:39:38  <Pikka> senior officers have to be incompetent or insane. it's rule number one of lazy drama writing.
11:52:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure how "middle management" fits the description of an admiral
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11:59:57  <Eddi|zuHause> there's also an issue of perceived incompetence. when you're an expert, almost everybody you deal with will have less knowledge of your subject than you do.
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12:25:15  <argoneus> ayy
12:25:23  <Pikka> get out
12:25:28  <argoneus> bayy
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12:49:17  <peter1138> So does NML grok stations?
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12:52:07  <planetmaker> no(t yet)
12:53:16  <planetmaker> noone yet spent enough time to implement that there as it takes special care due to them being handled differently than houses, industries, objects and airports while basically following the same concepts from user side
12:53:48  <Rubidium> planetmaker / Supercheese: WT3 has a lot of trouble with cases. For some reason changing a case makes WT3 throw a tantrum or something during reading back the commit, which causes the language to be locked. The ONLY solution is forcing WT3 to trash the translation and read it in from SVN
12:54:03  <argoneus> I wish you guys didn't use SVN :(
12:54:04  <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Stations <-- to some extent there are a few vars, though, peter1138
12:54:06  <Rubidium> having said that... I don't have the SSH keys with me to trigger that
12:54:07  <argoneus> it's such a bad feature
12:54:48  <planetmaker> argoneus, why do *you* care? Use whatever VCS you like in order to hack OpenTTD
12:54:58  <Rubidium> argoneus: name me a better VCS that is: a) open source, b) free-of-charge and c) has incrementing version numbers which are the same on ALL checkouts?
12:55:11  <argoneus> SVN has such ugly branch management
12:55:26  <argoneus> hurr just store all the branches in different folders
12:55:28  <planetmaker> just svn switch and you#re done
12:55:29  <V453000> yay software discussion
12:55:38  <Xaroth|Work> NANO > EMACS
12:55:45  <planetmaker> vim > nano
12:55:47  <argoneus> they're not comparable
12:55:50  <argoneus> nano isn't an operating system
12:55:51  <V453000> 3DS MAX > MS PAINT
12:55:56  <Xaroth|Work> emacs > vim
12:55:59  <planetmaker> gimp > paint
12:56:02  <Xaroth|Work> rock paper scissors \o/
12:56:09  <Xaroth|Work> or in this case, nano emacs vim
12:56:18  <planetmaker> next philae briefing. bbl
12:56:19  <Rubidium> assuming package sizes were meant, I think nano < emacs ;)
12:56:47  <argoneus> isn't hg open source though
12:56:57  <Xaroth|Work> like git, yes
12:57:01  <Xaroth|Work> but neither matches c
12:57:21  <argoneus> what do you mean by c) even
12:57:31  <Xaroth|Work> commit 2 comes after commit 1
12:57:34  <peter1138> It means what it says...
12:57:35  <Xaroth|Work> that.. pretty much
12:57:47  <argoneus> oh
12:57:53  <argoneus> you mean like
12:57:57  <argoneus> if you switch a branch in hg
12:58:00  <V453000> XD
12:58:00  <argoneus> you don't see other commits?
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12:58:03  <Xaroth|Work> no
12:58:09  <Xaroth|Work> like, when you're on commit 1105
12:58:17  <Xaroth|Work> you know you have a newer version than commit 1104
12:58:31  <Xaroth|Work> svn doesn't do fancy branching like hg and git
12:59:03  <Rubidium> argoneus: what I mean with that, is that a) if you show me two commits I can immediately see which commit was made earlier, and b) that commit 1104 in my checkout is guaranteed the same as in planetmake's checkout (assuming no local modifications and being in the same branch)
12:59:34  <argoneus> isn't b) what every CVS does?
13:00:00  <Rubidium> argoneus: no
13:00:18  <argoneus> er
13:00:18  <argoneus> VCS
13:00:19  <peter1138> No, git and hg use hashes to identify commits.
13:00:42  <argoneus> oh, like that
13:01:09  <Rubidium> hg an incrementing counter for the Xth commit in that hg checkout. If planetmaker makes a local branch, and then pulls from trunk, the counters for the same commit (by hash) are different for me and planetmaker
13:01:37  <argoneus> shrug
13:03:39  <Rubidium> and no, CVS doesn't do that. It has a counter for each individiual file
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13:09:28  <Xaroth|Work> argoneus: there are also commercial VCS systems
13:11:09  <argoneus> http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/images/2014/11/welcome_to_a_comet/15048351-1-eng-GB/Welcome_to_a_comet.jpg
13:11:13  <argoneus> why is there a human face on the right
13:12:23  <V453000> you could probably imagine many human faces there
13:13:54  <peter1138> Question is... is it actually on its feet...
13:14:05  <frosch123> http://www.der-postillon.com/2014/11/esa-astronaut-verlasst-rosetta.html <- argoneus: it's the astronaut who left the probe to install the flags of the esa countries
13:14:46  <argoneus> that's not too great of a photoshop
13:15:01  <argoneus> is this a german onion?
13:15:09  <frosch123> something like that
13:16:00  <Rubidium> argoneus: the face is there because of apophenia
13:16:40  <Rubidium> argoneus: or the more specific variant of apophenia: pareidolia
13:17:00  <argoneus> heh
13:17:32  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: no, it's the postillion
13:17:59  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: also, there's a human face because the human brain sees faces EVERYWHERE
13:18:18  <argoneus> :O
13:18:26  <argoneus> but the shape of the nose is clear
13:18:32  <argoneus> and it also has a mouth and ear
13:18:32  <argoneus> :(
13:19:47  <Eddi|zuHause> you see the face? http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/13800000/Creepy-house-random-13896771-640-512.jpg
13:19:57  <argoneus> inb4 gif
13:20:08  <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: lol
13:20:47  <Eddi|zuHause> if all the tools you have is a giant face recognition software, everything you see is a face.
13:21:55  <V453000> Pikka: STRETCHING XD https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/NUTS/flatbeds2.png
13:23:38  <peter1138> Good example.
13:24:23  <V453000> kind of too visible on the balls of steel but hm
13:24:25  <Xaroth|Work> wth @ that train
13:24:40  <Xaroth|Work> what are those, worms?
13:24:45  <Xaroth|Work> with construction hats on?
13:24:54  <peter1138> Yeti...
13:24:56  <V453000> nuts, and those are yeti
13:25:12  <peter1138> (Not the abominable snowman kind)
13:25:18  <Xaroth|Work> heh
13:25:26  <peter1138> Or maybe they are, but shaved...
13:25:39  <V453000> XD
13:25:39  <V453000> yes
13:26:16  <argoneus> do the yeti move on the train
13:26:17  <argoneus> like wiggle wiggle
13:26:19  <peter1138> They're a bit tall :S
13:27:28  <V453000> no, they dont
13:27:34  <V453000> peter1138: they have the correct YETIscale
13:27:37  <V453000> aka 3m :)
13:28:08  <peter1138> Sure, I can see the cargo is the "right" height so it's all good :p
13:28:18  <frosch123> you could have some compressor vans, yeti half half their size at 100 bar
13:28:56  <peter1138> ...
13:29:06  <peter1138> Been staring at that picture, only just spotted the balls.
13:29:22  <peter1138> Yeah... stretched. Hmm.
13:29:45  <V453000> I think it isnt totally horrible
13:29:48  <argoneus> you could compress them
13:29:51  <V453000> not perfect, but it can never be that :D
13:29:55  <peter1138> What happens if you don't stretch them? Are gaps really a problem?
13:30:04  <V453000> yeah, huge gaps like pineapple
13:30:13  <argoneus> how many yetis fit into a car
13:30:22  <frosch123> you could stretch only the wagons, not the cargo
13:30:25  <V453000> I absolutely hate the gaps, if the train looks like there are no gaps in / view, then there must also not be gaps in - or |
13:30:25  <peter1138> 1
13:30:31  <V453000> well yeah frosch
13:30:32  <frosch123> i.e. gaps between the cargo
13:30:39  <frosch123> or you can do it the pikka way :)
13:30:47  <V453000> no, that is out of the question :)
13:30:52  <frosch123> do it correct and hope that ottd gets fixed
13:30:53  <peter1138> Do it pikka's way, and force us to change the game ;)
13:30:56  <V453000> resizing only cargo would be k
13:31:10  <V453000> I can re-render eventually :P
13:31:22  <peter1138> Redraw every pixel! :D
13:31:37  <V453000> for now I will keep everything stretched
13:32:05  <frosch123> just explain it with the speed
13:32:24  <frosch123> travellling at 200 km per second causes some stretching
13:33:12  <peter1138> http://pikkarail.com/openttd/a-matter-of-perspective/
13:33:14  <peter1138> I like that
13:33:22  <peter1138> Were pikka complains that \ / views are too short.
13:33:34  <peter1138> (Rather than - | views too long.)
13:33:57  <argoneus> V453000: I tried drawing something
13:34:05  <argoneus> http://puu.sh/cMqBr/0ab56800e9.png how do I make this look like a table and not his body
13:34:33  <V453000> apply to art school immediately
13:34:42  <argoneus> 2late
13:35:34  <argoneus> V453000: also, I met another czech on irc, and he went to be a programmer p much after finishing high school, in prague
13:35:38  <argoneus> guess how much he makes gross :|
13:35:51  <V453000> idk :)
13:36:03  <argoneus> 35k, how is that possible
13:36:13  <V453000> he is probably useful? :D
13:36:17  <argoneus> I mean
13:36:24  <argoneus> I knew there was a difference between prague and the rest
13:36:25  <__ln___> 35k korunas or euros or what?
13:36:27  <argoneus> but was it THIS big?
13:36:33  <V453000> yes
13:36:40  <argoneus> __ln___: it's like 1500 euros
13:36:42  <argoneus> 1200
13:37:00  <argoneus> consider that rent costs like 350 euros
13:37:20  <argoneus> V453000: so basically
13:37:31  <argoneus> the country is being fucked over just so people in the capital can be fine?
13:37:42  <argoneus> or how much is rent in your city
13:38:27  <V453000> well fucked over, that doesnt mean prague isnt a lot more expensive in everything and that requirements to have a good job that is well paid arent higher
13:38:45  <frosch123> argoneus: you are too young. money is never related to how much you actually do. it is mostly affected by where you live, how well your company did in the past. life is not fair, don't even try to expect that
13:38:45  <V453000> and seriously, you think about it too much
13:38:53  <V453000> just learn shit :D
13:39:03  <argoneus> I want to
13:39:08  <V453000> and what frosch said
13:39:13  <argoneus> but I know people that became bachelors / masters and got less on their first job
13:39:20  <argoneus> and then there's someone almost fresh out of high school
13:39:23  <argoneus> ;;
13:39:29  <frosch123> argoneus: but guess what, having money doesn't correlate to having fun either.
13:39:33  <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, that's a very very low wage
13:39:39  <argoneus> not having money correlates to not having fun though
13:39:44  <V453000> yes Eddi :) we know
13:39:56  <argoneus> the average wage in switzerland
13:39:58  <argoneus> is like 5 times ours
13:40:12  <V453000> argoneus: just comparing stuff like this will not lead you anywhere
13:40:14  <argoneus> sure you can argue "living costs"
13:40:20  <argoneus> but they can import cars from our country etc
13:40:23  <argoneus> and it's super cheap
13:40:30  <V453000> there will always be "dude X" who went straight out of high school and made millions in the first few years or so
13:40:46  <argoneus> I just thought
13:40:53  <argoneus> that the point of capitalism was that your effort correlates to your gainings
13:41:11  <Eddi|zuHause> that was never the point of capitalism
13:41:15  <frosch123> nope, not at all
13:41:23  <argoneus> not the point, but effect*
13:41:33  <argoneus> capitalism emphasizes competition and invididualism
13:41:34  <frosch123> your gaining correlate to what *others* think your work is worth
13:41:35  <Eddi|zuHause> the point of capitalism was that the price for something depends on how much is offered and how much is demanded
13:41:47  <frosch123> you can work a lot on something which noone cares about
13:41:54  <V453000> like openttd XD
13:41:59  <argoneus> lol
13:41:59  <V453000> :P
13:42:06  <frosch123> and you can work a lot on something which people consider important, even though you don't consider it important yourself
13:42:17  <V453000> like facebook Managers
13:42:18  <V453000> XD
13:42:20  <Eddi|zuHause> and generally, the more manual labour something consumes, the less valuable it is perceived by others
13:42:40  <lastmikoi> Eddi|zuHause: I don't believe the offer/demand concept is really inherent to capitalism, but I might be wrong.
13:42:44  <argoneus> so basically
13:42:51  <V453000> CAPITALISM DISCUSSION :D
13:42:53  <argoneus> if a lot of people demand something and only little people can do it properly
13:42:57  * V453000 gets back to 3D
13:43:10  <argoneus> then they'll get more even if they have lesser education?
13:43:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
13:43:21  <Eddi|zuHause> basically
13:43:28  <Eddi|zuHause> very simplified
13:43:32  <argoneus> er
13:43:34  <argoneus> only few people*
13:43:36  <argoneus> don't want to discriminate midgets
13:43:55  <argoneus> well, I get that
13:44:07  <frosch123> also "demanded" is not correlated to "being good"
13:44:08  <argoneus> if I was the only one who could knit red sweaters, and everyone wanted red sweaters
13:44:12  <argoneus> then I'd get paid more than a top manager
13:44:15  <argoneus> for knitting sweaters
13:44:23  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a lot of situational stuff in there as well
13:44:32  <V453000> I mean shit, if you do something  really well and people want to pay you because the quality of your work is worth it, you get $$$
13:44:36  <argoneus> but I don't know if it's just me
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13:44:42  <argoneus> but don't people work as little as possible for as most as possible?
13:44:47  <V453000> education is just to help you do something really well
13:44:47  <Eddi|zuHause> a large part of earning a lot is applying for the right job at the right time
13:44:55  <Eddi|zuHause> or knowing the right people
13:45:00  <V453000> that too
13:45:11  <argoneus> ah, right
13:45:16  <argoneus> like two companies can offer the same position
13:45:18  <argoneus> but one values it more
13:45:21  <argoneus> right
13:45:30  <frosch123> "knowing the right people" only works in jobs which do not required "knowledge"
13:45:39  <V453000> not true frosch123
13:45:52  <frosch123> hmm, maybe in jobs which are really over-crowded
13:46:05  <V453000> +-
13:46:10  <argoneus> frosch123: I think I'm an example of that
13:46:16  <argoneus> I know someone at this company
13:46:29  <argoneus> and just an employee saying "I know this guy" works
13:46:34  <Eddi|zuHause> this is why all the self-help "gurus" out there tell you to just show up at places and talk to more people. then it's way more likely that one of those people is "the right"
13:47:15  <frosch123> argoneus: ok, that is true. if someone you trust says that someone else is trustworthy is also worth a lot
13:47:51  <frosch123> you cannot tell the intentions of someone in an 2 hour interview
13:48:42  <frosch123> i thought you were refering to realtives getting a job at the same company
13:49:10  <Eddi|zuHause> that rarely ends well :p
13:49:33  <frosch123> there are actually a lot of "kids at age 20" in my company, who have no plan what to do, and then just at the company because their parents or sibliings work there
13:49:47  <argoneus> im kid at age 20, thanks :(
13:49:49  <frosch123> usually they are not particulary good, and quit after 2 years when they figure out what they want to do
13:49:52  <Eddi|zuHause> "the bosses nephew makes this program, he uses the computer a lot"
13:50:08  <argoneus> I'm wondering
13:50:13  <argoneus> if it's a student / part time / internship position
13:50:18  <argoneus> is it common to quit after 1-2 years?
13:50:23  <argoneus> or does the company expect you to stay longer
13:50:58  <frosch123> well, it is said: if you stay for 7 years, you likely stay forever :p
13:50:59  <Eddi|zuHause> if you have an "internship" position for two years, they're probably screwing you over
13:51:17  <V453000> XD
13:51:38  <argoneus> because right now I have a student QA position
13:51:40  <frosch123> i'm in my 7th ottd year btw
13:51:44  <argoneus> and this is definitely not something what I'd like to do longer
13:51:55  <argoneus> it's pretty manual, just following steps
13:52:08  <argoneus> X happens, do Y, report Z
13:52:15  <Eddi|zuHause> well, ask them to put you in a different position of the company, or quit.
13:52:20  <argoneus> well
13:52:23  <argoneus> it's a student position
13:52:29  <argoneus> I didn't expect to be the lead engineer
13:52:40  <frosch123> argoneus: and do you do exactly what you are asked to? or do you make suggestions for alternative ways?
13:52:49  <Eddi|zuHause> there are "student" positions in other places at that company
13:52:53  <argoneus> there aren't really alternative ways frosch123
13:53:02  <frosch123> there always are
13:53:09  <argoneus> if it says "we just translated this document, we need you to look through it if there's any misformatting or missing things"
13:53:14  <argoneus> then what can I do
13:53:49  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: the more you show initiative, the more likely they will see that certain "higher" postiions may be better for you
13:53:54  <frosch123> you could ask whether to use formatting classes and templates
13:54:05  <frosch123> (sorry, don't know the exact english terms there)
13:54:08  <argoneus> nono
13:54:13  <argoneus> I'm literally given a .pdf of 300 pages
13:54:21  <argoneus> and need to make sure there's no misformatting
13:54:29  <argoneus> you can't really automate that
13:54:37  <argoneus> or at least, I can't
13:54:41  <V453000> YAY frosch123 stays with openttd forever :D
14:11:42  <peter1138> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB4SPTlVZ78
14:11:42  <peter1138> Wut?
14:25:38  <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly are you trying to tell us?
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15:15:22  <planetmaker> <frosch123> i'm in my 7th ottd year btw <-- hm, depending on how I count, I can say the same :D
15:16:04  <frosch123> :)
15:16:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm probably here a bit longer than that
15:17:11  <planetmaker> actually... quite exactly as it seems. I registered to tt-f on November 8th 7 years ago
15:17:32  <planetmaker> and I did in order to report / ask about issues with OpenTTD compilation
15:18:01  <b_jonas> openttd has come a long way since that
15:18:12  <frosch123> well, you do not usually just register for reading
15:18:31  <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34528#p639920
15:18:43  <planetmaker> yes, that's true
15:18:46  <frosch123> not sure when i started reading tt-f, but likely in 2005 or so
15:19:34  <planetmaker> I later mis-used my first posting to "host" signature files :P
15:20:24  <Eddi|zuHause> my first mention in the commit log is from july 2006
15:20:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i've probably been in this channel regularly since christmas 2005
15:22:07  <Eddi|zuHause> my first code contribution to the MiniIN was in november 2006
15:22:09  <planetmaker> dunno, my first entry as participant in a coop game is December 2007. But I played on some servers earlier, notably Brianetta's one
15:22:22  <planetmaker> but might not be before 2007...
15:22:48  <Eddi|zuHause> so yesterday was the 8th anniversary(-ish)
15:23:22  * argoneus pops a popper
15:23:27  <planetmaker> though maybe... I had an OpenTTD 0.4.5, iirc. which is dated 2006. But I only came back to it really with 0.5.3
15:23:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i had a 0.4.0
15:23:42  <planetmaker> I *think*
15:23:54  <Eddi|zuHause> which is really unlikely, because that was only available for a week
15:23:55  <argoneus> in 2005 I was playing jedi academy
15:23:56  <argoneus> :(
15:24:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i then had a nightly in the r3000 range
15:24:44  <Eddi|zuHause> with the completely broken PBS
15:24:49  <frosch123> hehe, when i got ottd 0.4, it had such a feature parity with ttdp 2.0, that i thought it were the same devs doing it, just switching to a more maintainable language :)
15:25:04  <Eddi|zuHause> and i believe my first question in here was about elrails (or lack thereof)
15:25:15  <planetmaker> hehe, nice frosch123 :)
15:25:29  <frosch123> i think i read the ottd forums for 2 years, before discovernig that the ttdp section was not just archive
15:26:33  <argoneus> what language is ttdp?
15:26:36  <frosch123> most likely my thinking was along those guys who said "why don't they just join forces" :p
15:26:49  <frosch123> argoneus: masm
15:26:58  <argoneus> oh, masochism
15:27:10  <frosch123> with some magic around it
15:27:41  <argoneus> microsoft products always come with magic :<
15:28:05  <frosch123> i can read asm, and also wrote various system-near things with it
15:28:17  <frosch123> but i always assumed that people who can write asm also can write c
15:28:29  <frosch123> or some other higher language
15:28:35  <argoneus> well
15:28:39  <argoneus> C can be parsed to asm almost 1:1
15:28:54  <argoneus> most of the operators are directly asm operators
15:28:57  <argoneus> += etc
15:29:08  <frosch123> that's not what i mean
15:29:28  <frosch123> c programmers and asm programmers think differently, which results in very different code
15:29:45  <argoneus> differently in what way?
15:29:47  <frosch123> today i can look at grfcodec and see that it is written by an asm guy
15:30:35  <frosch123> using two-complement overflows to save or-ing a mask and such
15:30:52  <argoneus> hm
15:31:09  <frosch123> "((-overlap_len) << 3) & 0xFF | (p >> 8)" <- this is an asm line
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15:31:25  <frosch123> "0x80 | (16 - overlap_len) << 3 | overlap_pos >> 8;" <- this is the equivalent c line
15:31:41  <frosch123> (both are python actually in this case, but the thinking is different)
15:32:07  <planetmaker> :D
15:32:13  <argoneus> I don't really understand what this should do in the context
15:32:15  <argoneus> without*
15:32:38  <Xaroth|Work> hehe
15:33:11  <argoneus> all I see is bit shifts and logical operations
15:33:14  <argoneus> bitwise*
15:33:23  <frosch123> it's just the difference of doing "(uint8)(-foo << 3)" vs. "0x80 | (16-foo) << 3"
15:34:03  <frosch123> the asm guy used "-" and a "(uint8)" cast to set the highest bit
15:34:18  <frosch123> the c programmer does it the "natural" way
15:34:35  <planetmaker> George, re https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7267 : there likely are other cases. de-facto you must make sure to not use any variable which is not cached in order to change any vehicle property
15:35:18  <George> and what is the list of notcached variables?
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15:38:34  <planetmaker> generally a time or position dependence is a bad idea
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15:43:25  <planetmaker> unrelated, some people might find this interesting (received as feedback via e-mail): http://marmorstein.org/~robert/p117-marmorstein.pdf
15:45:19  <frosch123> another ottd based scientific paper?
15:45:35  <frosch123> i always wonder whether that also happens to other foss games
15:47:46  <Eddi|zuHause> like tuxracer or what?
15:49:13  <frosch123> wesnoth, widelands, that category
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15:49:29  <Eddi|zuHause> about the "race condition" he probably didn't find the "ignore signal" button
15:50:24  <peter1138> Heh
15:51:52  <frosch123> hmm, i think that paper relies on block signals. pbs cannot be used to explain traditional mutexes
15:52:20  <planetmaker> he writes explicitly block signals, yes
15:52:21  <frosch123> see, there is a use for block signals :)
15:52:33  <peter1138> :-)
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15:52:42  <argoneus> someone call the V453000
15:52:56  <V453000> frosch123: too many words, correct sentence is "pbs cannot be used"
15:53:09  <peter1138> Iyeah, we don't have pbs
15:53:24  <peter1138> path signals are much better :)
15:54:44  <planetmaker> " In fact, several of them continued
15:54:44  <planetmaker> playing with the train scenario well after completing the checkpoints on which they were
15:54:44  <planetmaker> graded. The exercise worked well as an introduction to threads and synchronization (...)" :)
15:55:08  <peter1138> "The exercise worked well as in introduction to playing games instead of learning"
15:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i most certainly have PBS. in my (functional) MiniIN checkout
15:55:29  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: does it compile?
15:55:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
15:55:34  <frosch123> or do you just claim it does
15:55:40  <George> planetmaker: time dependence - does it include date of last service and build year?
15:55:47  <peter1138> Is that Hackykid's implementation?
15:55:49  <Eddi|zuHause> a few months ago, at least
15:55:55  <planetmaker> those are cached, afaik, George
15:56:03  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the problematic parts are inbetween, in the r10000 range
15:56:07  <frosch123> so, do you run an really old os, or did you do all those libpng and gcc 4.6 adjustments
15:56:12  <planetmaker> George, they are not exactly time-variable
15:56:14  <Eddi|zuHause> after the c++ move
15:56:18  <peter1138> George, they are fine to use
15:56:36  <peter1138> I think.
15:56:42  <peter1138> Build year definitely never changes :p
15:56:51  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, gtg
15:57:30  <planetmaker> I think they're not only cached but actually saved. which is the actual better definition of "does not desync"
15:57:36  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it throws a boatload of warnings
15:58:31  <peter1138> Yeah, servicing triggers a... erm... trigger, so the cache is refreshed.
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16:03:04  <ginko> Can I transport goods via a complex route, let's say via bus to an airport, from there to an airport, and then via train to a city?
16:03:26  <ginko> *..., from there to a different airport, ...
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16:06:21  <Rubidium> Supercheese / planetmaker: better now? ;)
16:06:25  <ginko> (and if so, how, and if not, how to work around this)
16:06:54  <frosch123> planetmaker: nice paper actually. way better than the usual ones :)
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17:01:44  <argoneus> ayy
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17:07:39  <George> What is the date of last service for newly built engine/wagon?
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17:09:41  <frosch123> it should be the build date
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17:19:15  <planetmaker> distances... :D http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3542#comic
17:20:43  <Alberth> :D
17:25:18  <NGC3982> :D
17:25:58  <planetmaker> the previous one there is also quite good
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17:45:47  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27061 /trunk/src/lang (czech.txt latvian.txt) (2014-11-13 17:45:38 UTC)
17:45:48  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:49  <DorpsGek> czech - 1 changes by marek995
17:45:50  <DorpsGek> latvian - 1 changes by Parastais
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18:10:57  <Quatroking> simon and garfunkel is great openttd music
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18:17:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i like garfunkel and oates
18:17:37  <__ln___> spanish word of the day: Baja Sajonia
18:17:54  <Eddi|zuHause> lower saxony?
18:18:00  <__ln___> correcto
18:18:27  <Eddi|zuHause> wouldn't that be sajonia baja?
18:20:32  <__ln___> apparently not. and the order isn't always noun + adjective in spanish in general.
18:25:41  <peter1138> Well, it's just a name.
18:26:12  <peter1138> The whole thing is the noun, it is a noun with an adjective.
18:26:41  <peter1138> Like East Suffolk is separate from Suffolk, rather than being the Eastern part of it.
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18:38:41  <Eddi|zuHause> well, sure. lower saxony is not a part of saxony, either
18:39:47  <Eddi|zuHause> nor is there an "upper" saxony :p
18:44:03  <frosch123> they do not even share a border
18:44:16  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the reading/writing problem might be explained with platforms
18:45:13  <frosch123> write a follow-up paper :)
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18:56:15  <andythenorth> o/
19:00:26  <Quatroking> i love building stations like these http://a.pomf.se/qcpkyt.png
19:00:39  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, that's pretty much what I said :p
19:00:41  <andythenorth> I love trains
19:00:47  <peter1138> I like turtles
19:00:51  <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHkKJfcBXcw
19:01:19  <andythenorth> I am the guy in that video
19:01:22  <andythenorth> even looks like me
19:01:43  <andythenorth> even sounds like me
19:02:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i just wanted to say "i like trains"
19:02:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i never really have the space to do such stations
19:02:56  <peter1138> I never have the patience.
19:03:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i have to fill every small niche
19:03:39  <Eddi|zuHause> non-track tiles rarely fit anywhere
19:04:07  <andythenorth> use a bigger map
19:04:13  <andythenorth> 8192x8192 should do it
19:04:26  <andythenorth> where is my 8*8192 map option? :(
19:05:54  <frosch123> do firs industries even fit on there :p
19:06:32  <andythenorth> hmm
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19:06:47  <andythenorth> I recode FIRS
19:06:51  <andythenorth> all industries, single tile
19:06:53  <andythenorth> winner
19:06:53  <Quatroking> I have my settings set to keep 3 tiles free around industries
19:07:01  <Wolf01> hi
19:08:22  <frosch123> andythenorth: i want a 1x8k map then
19:08:29  <frosch123> depot on one end
19:08:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the last map i played was 128x256 or so
19:08:39  <frosch123> then a row of stations, and tunnel under each industry
19:09:00  <frosch123> with the right tunnel/bridge combo you may even make it bidirectional
19:09:15  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: need at least 3 tiles on a side to have one tile be buildable
19:09:51  <frosch123> well, i mean one buildable tile ofc
19:10:18  <Eddi|zuHause> the next higher power of two then is 4
19:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause> so you have 2 tiles to build on
19:10:29  <frosch123> you can always add more void tiles
19:10:45  <frosch123> we discussed non-square non-power-of-2 maps before :)
19:10:58  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
19:11:08  <Eddi|zuHause> but the current map generator won't produce those :p
19:11:24  <frosch123> it won't produce a 4x8k map either
19:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> also, you get NewGRF trouble
19:11:50  <frosch123> isn't that the normal case?
19:12:10  <Eddi|zuHause> because map size is exposed in a crazy format
19:13:59  <Eddi|zuHause> as it happens when assembler-programmers focus on bitstuffing and ressource efficiency
19:18:43  <Eddi|zuHause> dear cat, have you seen the mouse?
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19:21:34  <andythenorth> first where is cat?
19:22:09  <Eddi|zuHause> within arm's reach
19:22:17  <andythenorth> solved
19:22:19  <andythenorth> finally
19:22:44  <Eddi|zuHause> so, almost all the warnings in MiniIN are of the form
19:22:52  <Eddi|zuHause> smallmap_gui.c:698:2: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules [-Wstrict-aliasing]
19:22:53  <Eddi|zuHause>   tile_x = WP(w,smallmap_d).scroll_x / TILE_SIZE;
19:24:10  <Eddi|zuHause> and a handful of unused variable ones...
19:24:44  <Eddi|zuHause> but my terminal buffer isn't big enough to show them all
19:27:31  <peter1138> Ah, the old WP macro...
19:27:47  <peter1138> So glad we got rid of that :)
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19:39:07  <Supercheese> Huzzah, webtranslator fixed
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20:32:44  <ginko> What is your personal preference? Inflation on or off?
20:33:12  <Zuu> off
20:33:35  <Zuu> Though, I prefere my air mattress inflated
20:34:23  <ginko> Is it much easier with it off? Feels a little bit like cheating
20:34:31  <andythenorth> inflation is borked
20:34:33  <andythenorth> it’s not cheating
20:34:37  <andythenorth> inflation is stupid
20:35:15  <ginko> borked how?
20:35:31  <andythenorth> costs inflate faster than income iirc
20:35:33  <andythenorth> something dumb anyway
20:35:35  <b_jonas> I like inflation, but it has some unforgunate side effects:
20:35:51  <b_jonas> like, if you start a game in 2030, you can't borrow enough to build a rail line
20:36:00  <ginko> Ah k
20:36:01  <b_jonas> even though the borrow amount is supposed to grow with inflation
20:36:17  <ginko> Is it normal to make the biggest amount of money with planes (by a big margin)?
20:36:20  <b_jonas> but then, it doesn't matter much
20:36:36  <b_jonas> ginko: in the mid-game, yes, but in late game big passenger trains make much more than planes
20:36:42  <ginko> (well, it might change, I am in 1967 having started from 1950, but I don't think it will)
20:36:49  <ginko> K, thanks :)
20:37:14  <b_jonas> in 1967 it might be possible
20:37:19  <b_jonas> you haven't had time to grow the towns yet
20:37:26  <b_jonas> when you grow them, they supply lots of passengers,
20:37:30  <b_jonas> and yuo get fast trains later
20:37:35  <b_jonas> and strong trains
20:37:36  <b_jonas> that adds up
20:37:54  <b_jonas> planes improve a bit, but not as much as trains
20:38:22  <ginko> Biggest town is 8k currently ;)
20:38:36  <ginko> 2nd biggest only 5k
20:39:02  <andythenorth> hmm
20:39:24  <b_jonas> ginko: the trains matter too. they really get better later
20:39:51  <andythenorth> Zuu: could you store local pricing per town per cargo?
20:39:55  <andythenorth> I won’t suggest per-tile :P
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20:40:23  <ginko> b_jonas I use them quite a lot, but it is a big map and so I have started flying a lot of goods and passengers around. Every major city now has an airport
20:41:07  <ginko> b_jonas and at this point I only use them for goods or things like coal or steel, not for passengers
20:41:44  <ginko> I have a lot of water, but ships are soooooo slow
20:41:59  <Zuu> andythenorth: differentiated payment per cargo and town is doable.
20:42:19  <andythenorth> demand economy
20:42:19  <Zuu> Industry level is a bit more work and will not work for cargo accepted by town houses.
20:42:34  <andythenorth> deliver more, price goes down
20:42:38  <andythenorth> above some demand threshold
20:42:44  <andythenorth> like Railroad Tycoon 3
20:42:51  <andythenorth> I don’t think it will make great gameplay in TTD
20:42:57  <andythenorth> but might be a nice toy project
20:43:12  <Zuu> I regard CashDrainGS mostly as a toy already.
20:43:35  <andythenorth> so in RT3, industries and houses create demand
20:43:41  <andythenorth> as cargo is delivered, price drops
20:43:43  <andythenorth> there is a floor
20:43:54  <andythenorth> in other areas of demand, unmet demand increases the price gradient
20:44:10  <Zuu> That would be very easy to implement if that is done on mothly basis.
20:44:16  <andythenorth> monthly would be fine
20:44:23  <Zuu> Now payment is [monthly delivery] * [payment factor]
20:44:29  <andythenorth> RT3 has a neat red-yellow-green heatmap for demand, GS can’t do that :)
20:44:39  <ginko> Is there a place in which I can download savegames by more advanced players (to have a look, play and learn?!)
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20:45:04  <andythenorth> http://www.tycoon-games-review.com/images/Railroadtycoon3overview.jpg
20:45:07  <Zuu> You could do [monthly delivery] ^ (0.5) * [payment factor]
20:45:24  <andythenorth> in RT3, it also takes into account terrain
20:45:37  <Zuu> Or just square root everything.
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20:45:47  <andythenorth> so tiles separated by mountains have high demand relative to other side of mountain
20:45:56  <Zuu> Or whatever way you like to shape it.
20:46:07  <andythenorth> probably a good toy
20:46:28  <andythenorth> could really use some list of localised prices though :D
20:47:05  <Zuu> Sounds interesting. I wrote somewhere that it could look at the distance to closest x supplies and if they are far, increase payment.
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20:48:22  <Zuu> The good thing about using town level is that GS can put some info in the town window. As the feedback on what you get paid gets a bit broken with this GS.
20:48:54  <andythenorth> yeah :)
20:49:02  <andythenorth> needs a price layer on minimap :P
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20:50:46  <Zuu> Or remove all trees on the map, disable tree growth and then place more trees where towns pay more. Though I think just removing all trees will need an insane amount of DoCommands, and I am afraid trees are made before the script starts up and have a say on the (advanced) settings.
20:51:32  <ginko> I don't want to annoy people online, so I have to ask in advance: Can I join a server to just briefly have a look and be a silent watchful eye upon the game played instead of participating myself?
20:51:49  <Zuu> Yes
20:52:26  <Zuu> What may happen is that the game will pause briefly when you join. So joinging servers just to quit quickly is not always welcome though.
20:52:32  <andythenorth> treetype per cargo? o_O
20:52:37  <andythenorth> do we have enough trees :P
20:52:51  <andythenorth> hmm
20:52:52  <andythenorth> signs
20:52:55  <andythenorth> can be hidden :P
20:53:07  <Zuu> It can use signs, but those are not visible on the minimap.
20:53:27  <andythenorth> GS-defined minimap layer
20:53:28  <andythenorth> :P
20:53:42  <Zuu> It even can make $ signs of the company colour on towns that get income :-)
20:54:17  <Zuu> But those will not raise and then disappear :-)
20:54:55  <andythenorth> I guess demand economy does nothing for those who are bothered by distance
20:54:57  <andythenorth> but eh
20:55:01  <andythenorth> [shrug]
20:55:59  <ginko> Zuu Thank you :) Works perfectly fine, very interesting... those rails are insane.. (have to read up on signals,... shame be upon me :D)
20:59:31  <Zuu> ginko: When you learn to build networks, the game often become more fun.
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21:00:12  <ginko> Zuu I kind of have the urge to delete my map and start from scratch... have already done so multiple times the last few days
21:00:15  <ginko> :D
21:00:47  <ginko> But I have money on the map, so I can play around with trains and signals until I get the hang of it (or "some hang" ;))
21:00:49  <Zuu> I suggest starting with path signals and ignore the block type signals for now. The path signal work for most things.
21:01:19  <Zuu> A rule of thumb for them is to put them where it is safe for a train to wait.
21:01:38  <Zuu> If you don't want a train waiting somewhere, don't put a signal there.
21:02:52  <Zuu> For example you don't want trains waiting ontop of the cross-intersection before a station. So put the signal before the intersection, but not between it and the station.
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21:06:25  <andythenorth> you can always cheat money
21:06:27  <andythenorth> for learning stuff
21:10:23  <ginko> gn8 all, ty for your help and advise :)
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21:12:23  <Marshy> Evening! o/
21:18:05  <Taede> ello
21:19:52  <Eddi|zuHause> my attempt at an economy simulation would be: each town (and its attached industries) have two values: demanded amount and paid price. every month, if delivered amount is lower than demanded amount, demanded amount decreases, and paid price increases, if higher, the other way around. there is a general growth of demand values also over time (or with town size)
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21:20:49  <Eddi|zuHause> so if you ignored a town for a while and then connect it, you get very high prices for a short time, then it normalizes around the amount you actually deliver
21:21:52  <Eddi|zuHause> paid prices would not depend on distance (but still could get penalties for late delivery and stuff)
21:22:28  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that’s a better explanation of what I mean by demand economy
21:25:14  <andythenorth> maybe I should get a new game
21:25:20  <andythenorth> and maybe it shouldn’t be 2048 :P
21:26:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i've played through 2048. i've no desire to play it anymore.
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21:37:31  <andythenorth> yeah
21:39:11  *** ginko [~ginko@0001b68f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:42:11  * andythenorth plays some stupid bubble game
21:46:01  <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5Y8C6WHvcU
21:46:56  * andythenorth has bad german :P
21:48:08  <andythenorth> maybe I just play Silicon Valley
21:48:09  <andythenorth> again :)
21:48:22  <Eddi|zuHause> roughly: "hey mom, how was it when you went to the internet as a kid?" - "there was no internet when i was a kid" - "oh right, because of the war..."
21:48:36  <andythenorth> :P
21:49:04  <b_jonas> what...
21:49:15  <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: wait, what war?
21:49:35  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: not because of the dinos ?
21:49:53  <b_jonas> did you live in a place that had a war?
21:50:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i loved the dinos... "not the mommy! *bang*"
21:50:13  <frosch123> i like the top comment more :)
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21:51:47  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i like the second top comment even better :p
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21:52:47  <NGC3982> The damn thing works.
21:52:52  <NGC3982> It's alive.
21:52:55  <NGC3982> It's alive"!"€!"!
21:53:15  <Eddi|zuHause> but it supposedly lies on the side, with not getting enough sunlight
21:53:35  <NGC3982> I finally solved the Supybot server-to-IRC issue.
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22:00:53  <Taede> :D
22:01:07  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit []
22:01:31  <Quatroking> jesus christ, does moving my HQ cost 10% of my company's worth?
22:02:46  <Taede> so what was the solution?
22:03:20  <frosch123> nothing is more resistant to moving than office workers
22:03:26  <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: do you still need the joke explained?
22:04:08  <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: no, I know there wasn't internet back then, I was just wondering if you were serious about the war
22:04:17  <b_jonas> or if it's just for the joke
22:04:36  <b_jonas> I'm not as young as that kid, I know what it was like before the internet
22:04:42  <NGC3982> Taede: Thanks for the patience and the fact that i feel like i have never used Linux before.
22:04:57  <frosch123> b_jonas: as the comments explain. it's about the french-german war from 1960
22:05:52  <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: part of the joke is that the kid has no relation between when the war happened and when his mother was a kid, so everything "in the past" sorta blends into each other.
22:06:24  <b_jonas> oh come on, a kid might not understand about the internet or dinosaurs, I get that, but they can't seriously think there was a war if there wasn't, right?
22:06:32  <Eddi|zuHause> like my brother had this idea that in the past, the world was black and white, because he had only ever seen black and white photos
22:06:32  <b_jonas> it's possible that there was a war where he lived
22:06:54  <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, I know
22:07:00  <b_jonas> that's reasonable
22:07:02  <b_jonas> but a war?
22:07:13  <Eddi|zuHause> well there was a war
22:07:37  <frosch123> there has always been wars in europe
22:07:43  <b_jonas> yes, there was. and only a hundred kilometers or two to the south
22:07:44  <b_jonas> I know
22:07:51  <frosch123> the past years are just an error in the measurement
22:08:07  <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: this is obviously from a german perspective
22:08:22  <b_jonas> oh, then a few more kilometers
22:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: "the war" then most likely referring to WWII
22:09:03  <NGC3982> Don't mention ze war.
22:09:12  <Eddi|zuHause> the thing that runs up and down every documentary channel there is...
22:09:19  <b_jonas> if she's asking the grandparents, sure
22:09:34  <b_jonas> yeah, young people now don't remember the more recent war
22:09:42  <b_jonas> luckily
22:09:54  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not about remembering
22:10:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it's about piecing together information that you pass by on the internet (or the "real" world)
22:10:33  <b_jonas> oh... they learn from the internet
22:10:43  <b_jonas> not from their parents and teachers and tv now
22:10:45  <b_jonas> that might explain it
22:11:10  *** FLHerne [~flh@212.219.116.90] has joined #openttd
22:11:54  <Eddi|zuHause> well. like when i was first told the story about "the little trumpet boy", i had a totally different image of it in my head than what actually happened
22:12:31  *** eQualizer [~lauri@46-163-226-192.blcnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:14:04  <Eddi|zuHause> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_kleine_Trompeter
22:14:57  <andythenorth> bye
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22:29:05  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:00:13  <supermop> smoke looks better in squid that i remember
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23:08:03  <frosch123> it was improved some months ago
23:08:30  <frosch123> (if you are playing nightly)
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23:35:22  <argoneus> ayy
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