Log for #openttd on 17th February 2015:
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00:00:10  <samu> i forgot something, my goal was to attach a fake cost of building a canal, instead of calculating the cost of clearing a river tile into the formula
00:00:23  <samu> i did that for building it
00:00:30  <samu> but i forgot to do that for demolishing it
00:00:34  <samu> bah
00:05:16  <glx> maybe you could merge the tests in ChangeOwner
00:06:28  <glx> as they share is_lock_middle
00:09:33  <samu> before that, I have to put this cost.AddCost(_price[PR_BUILD_CANAL]);
00:09:38  <samu> somewhere in the removelock part
00:09:51  <samu> where
00:10:31  <samu> not addcost, removecost or whatever it's called
00:12:42  <glx> oh it's probably an addcost :)
00:14:05  <samu> where is the pricelist, is there a PR_DESTROY_CANAL?
00:14:17  <samu> have to guess
00:15:22  <glx> PR_CLEAR_CANAL maybe
00:15:54  <glx> yup that's it
00:16:09  <samu> ty
00:16:29  <samu> cost.AddCost(_price[PR_CLEAR_CANAL]);
00:17:12  <glx> first step is to add a local variable for that
00:17:51  <glx> like in DoBuildLock
00:19:30  <glx> and in RemoveLock() you split return CommandCost(EXPENSES_CONSTRUCTION, _price[PR_CLEAR_LOCK]); in 2 lines, cost.AddCost(_price...); return cost;
00:20:36  <glx> and of course all cost stuff must be outside if (flags & DC_EXEC) {
00:25:07  <samu> hmm
00:25:14  <samu> CommandCost cost(EXPENSES_CONSTRUCTION);
00:25:34  <samu> sorry i can't follow you
00:26:57  <glx> where are you lost ?
00:27:25  <samu> i'm at the first line
00:27:40  <samu> static CommandCost RemoveLock(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags)
00:27:58  <samu> what I put after it? CommandCost cost(EXPENSES_CONSTRUCTION);
00:28:03  <glx> yes
00:28:03  <samu> no?
00:28:06  <samu> oh
00:28:31  <glx> and at the end of the function you split the return line
00:29:07  <glx> of course with only these changes the result should be unmodified :)
00:29:26  <glx> until you add your extra cost
00:31:30  <samu> last line says return CommandCost(EXPENSES_CONSTRUCTION, _price[PR_CLEAR_LOCK]);
00:31:45  <samu> i split expenses construction and price clear lock?
00:31:50  <samu> hmm how is that done
00:32:29  <glx> the first part is done by creating the local variable
00:32:46  <samu> expenses_construction goes to last place?
00:32:51  <glx> you just need to add clear lock price and return cost
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00:34:01  <samu> im confused
00:34:05  <samu> sorry
00:34:19  <glx> EXPENSES_CONSTRUCTION is the type of CommandCost
00:34:32  <glx> you defined it when creating the local variable
00:35:15  <glx> you just need to do cost.AddCost(_price[PR_CLEAR_LOCK]);
00:35:21  <glx> and return cost;
00:35:51  <glx> to have the same effect as return CommandCost(EXPENSES_CONSTRUCTION, _price[PR_CLEAR_LOCK]);
00:36:24  <samu> ah i got it, I think
00:36:30  <samu> cost is the name of variable?
00:36:36  <glx> yes
00:36:38  <samu> such a short name
00:36:40  <samu> ok
00:36:51  <samu> but it depends
00:36:56  <samu> i need a if
00:37:08  <glx> that's the basic cost
00:37:08  <samu> ok i guess i know how to do that part
00:37:30  <glx> then you'll need to ad your extra cost somewhere in the function
00:37:54  <glx> but outside if (flags & DC_EXEC) block
00:37:58  <samu> the extra cost is only added if there was no river tile under it
00:38:35  <samu> ah, in the else part?
00:38:42  <glx> no
00:38:55  <samu> but... it's similar, they go in tandem
00:38:58  <glx> it should be added in any case, it's for estimation cost
00:39:05  <samu> hmm ok
00:39:15  <glx> as estimation and real must be the same
00:39:30  <glx> DC_EXEC block does the real part
00:40:07  <glx> cost calculation just need to be outside the block and it's ok
00:42:12  <glx> if (GetWaterClass(tile) != WATER_CLASS_RIVER) cost.AddCost(...) outside the block
00:42:26  <samu> WaterClass wc_middle = IsWaterTile(tile) ? GetWaterClass(tile) : WATER_CLASS_CANAL;
00:42:55  <samu> hmm wait
00:43:14  <glx> it's the same test used to decrement ;)
00:43:18  <samu> if (GetWaterClass(tile) != WATER_CLASS_CANAL)
00:43:27  <samu> CANAL or RIVER
00:43:55  <glx> you decrement in !river
00:44:09  <glx> so the cost should be added for !river too
00:44:49  <samu> that's a big mess then
00:45:01  <samu> part of the game calls ir river, other part calls it canal
00:45:13  <glx> only rivers are kept when destroying the lock
00:46:00  <samu> hmm
00:46:02  <samu> ok
00:46:07  <samu> i try river on this part
00:46:34  <glx> on construction you add cost if there's no water on the tile
00:46:59  <glx> meaning you build canal and lock on the tile
00:47:22  <glx> so on destruction you remove canal and lock if there's no river under it
00:48:13  <glx> that's how I understand your code :)
00:51:40  <samu> if (GetWaterClass(tile) != WATER_CLASS_RIVER) cost.AddCost(_price[PR_CLEAR_LOCK]);
00:52:01  <glx> not LOCK, CANAL :)
00:52:10  <samu> oh crap yes
00:52:40  <samu> if (GetWaterClass(tile) != WATER_CLASS_RIVER) cost.AddCost(_price[PR_CLEAR_CANAL]);
00:52:48  <glx> yes
00:53:05  <samu> now, where do i put this line at
00:53:09  <samu> heh, im such a noob
00:53:34  <samu> let me copy paste this part
00:53:35  <glx> can be anywhere exept the DC_EXEC block
00:54:38  <samu>
00:55:19  <samu> it's at line 7
00:55:26  <samu> cus i have no idea where it goes
00:55:36  <samu> line 3 and line 7
00:56:06  <glx> line 4 is misaligned
00:56:45  <glx> and line 7 is not the right place
00:56:55  <glx> it should be outside this block
00:57:17  <samu> hmm
00:57:18  <samu> ok
00:57:51  <glx> you can put it around line 17 or line 40
00:58:12  <glx> and the return is still unsplit :)
01:00:19  <samu> ok i put it at 40
01:01:39  <samu> what's a split?
01:01:47  <samu> i have to make it in two parts?
01:02:02  <samu> but what
01:02:02  <glx> yes else the cost won't change
01:02:20  <samu> let me try ad hoc split
01:03:03  <glx> cost.AddCost(...); return cost;
01:04:15  <samu> if (GetWaterClass(tile) != WATER_CLASS_RIVER) cost.AddCost(_price[PR_CLEAR_CANAL]);
01:04:25  <samu> and now
01:04:37  <samu> cost.addcost(pr.. etc return cost?
01:04:42  <glx> yes
01:04:45  <samu> and the last line is unchanged?
01:04:57  <glx> and the last line is removed
01:05:10  <glx> replaced by the 2 lines you are writing
01:05:48  <samu> oh, so im doing this wrong
01:06:50  <glx> you should have 3 lines after the DC_EXEC block
01:07:11  <glx> if (!river) add clear canal cost
01:07:19  <glx> add clear lock cost
01:07:24  <glx> return cost
01:07:43  <samu> i can't follow you, sorry so much
01:08:23  <samu>
01:08:27  <samu> i have this
01:08:44  <glx> that's wrong :)
01:09:06  <glx> I'll try to explain clearly
01:09:49  <samu> the price of clearing the lock must be accounted as well
01:10:30  <samu> it sums both
01:10:34  <glx> return CommandCost(EXPENSES_CONSTRUCTION, _price[PR_CLEAR_LOCK]); is similar to
01:10:34  <glx> CommandCost cost(EXPENSES_CONSTRUCTION);
01:10:34  <glx> cost.AddCost(_price[PR_CLEAR_LOCK]);
01:10:34  <glx> return cost;
01:11:04  <samu> oh, i see
01:11:08  <glx> the declaration is moved on top of the function
01:11:25  <glx> and you add your extra cost in between
01:12:04  <samu> 1 line became 3
01:12:06  <samu> not 2
01:12:12  <samu> ok i see
01:12:20  <glx> well the first is already correct
01:13:16  <samu> the expenses_construction is the dependable value, I seeeee :)
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01:13:22  <samu> damn i'm such a nab
01:13:38  <glx> at least you try
01:14:56  <glx> and you touched many parts of the game without noticing :)
01:15:09  <glx> construction, destruction, loading
01:15:41  <glx> company merging too
01:16:00  <glx> for just a simple idea
01:16:23  <glx> not bad for a start :)
01:17:14  <samu> I'd never guess the save and load one if no one would tell me
01:18:16  <glx> but I think you would have noticed it when testing
01:18:28  <samu>
01:19:08  <glx> line 42 is already on line 3 :)
01:20:37  <glx> else this code should do what you want
01:20:45  <samu> ah, which one do i remove
01:20:56  <glx> remove line 42
01:21:36  <samu>
01:21:43  <samu> k, hopefully it will work
01:21:47  <glx> to resume, the old return is split and your extra cost is added
01:23:06  <samu> it is building
01:23:12  <samu> and executing
01:23:19  <samu> but you mentioned something else
01:23:35  <samu> that needs fixing or imrpoving
01:23:43  <glx> what ?
01:24:05  <samu> before I mentioned I forgot to add this cost when removing
01:24:13  <samu> let me read back
01:24:37  <glx> ha yes the saveload checks
01:25:01  <glx> ha no the owner change
01:26:56  <samu> building lock: 7500+5000+5000+5000 = 22500, let me see if it confirms
01:27:10  <samu> correct, 22,500
01:27:29  <samu> destroying lock: I actually don't know the base price
01:27:49  <samu> dont know the base price + 5000
01:27:57  <glx> I think 2 canals are kept when destroying lock
01:28:10  <samu> assertion failed
01:28:14  <samu> at line blabla
01:28:16  <samu> so i failed
01:28:43  <glx> which assertion failed ?
01:28:44  <samu> hastilewaterclass(t)
01:28:52  <samu> can't be river?
01:29:00  <samu> then it's canal, gonna try canal
01:29:16  <glx> oh of course
01:29:27  <glx> it's no longer a river after destruction
01:29:45  <glx> move the canal cost before the DC_EXEC
01:29:56  <samu> ok
01:32:02  <glx> because if it was not a river it became a clear tile, so you can't check water class for that
01:32:42  <glx> as it's not a water tile
01:32:51  <glx> but before the DC_EXEC it's ok
01:33:01  <glx> as nothing has been done yet
01:34:03  <samu> building
01:34:14  <samu> ok its running
01:35:07  <samu> bah fail
01:35:11  <samu> well no error, but
01:35:26  <samu> it didn't account 5000
01:35:41  <samu> 2000+5000 = 7000
01:35:44  <samu> should cost 7000
01:37:06  <samu> ok it's doing the opposite of what I want
01:37:14  <samu> its adding 5000 if built on river
01:37:20  <samu> pff
01:37:24  <glx> weird
01:37:55  <samu> let me compare with 1.5.0-beta1
01:38:15  <glx> because the code cleary says if !river add
01:38:44  <samu> with river, it does assert error
01:38:48  <samu> i am trying with canal now
01:39:08  <samu> it is doing  the calculation but the wrong way
01:39:27  <samu> so != becomes == ?
01:39:55  <samu> let me re-check
01:40:25  <glx> decrement is done in else so != river
01:40:45  <glx> cost is increased for != river too
01:41:23  <samu> let me try river again
01:41:29  <samu> since it moved up
01:43:14  <samu> is it because it's on a coast slope?
01:43:26  <samu> river slope is also on coast
01:46:19  <samu> nice it works
01:46:36  <samu> moving that line before dc_exec apparently fixed it
01:46:44  <samu> and it's river again
01:46:55  <glx> so 2000 in this case
01:47:04  <samu> no, 7000 already
01:47:10  <samu> all working as intended
01:48:13  <glx> hmm removing on river should cost 2000
01:48:26  <samu> removing on river costs 2000
01:48:32  <samu> removing on bareland costs 7000
01:48:35  <samu> working as intended
01:48:44  <glx> nice
01:48:56  <samu> much happy!
01:49:11  <samu> thx for all the help
01:49:28  <samu> there's some other thing to solve but i dont have time now
01:49:33  <samu> i can do that tomorrow
01:49:58  <glx> you learned a lot with a "small" change :)
01:50:41  <samu> heh it looks so small but in truth it's not too easy to get it right
01:50:48  <samu> :)
01:53:22  <samu> okay, here it is
01:53:24  <samu>
01:53:31  <samu> the whole patch file
01:53:53  <samu> except the visual studio parts
01:53:59  <samu> i unticked it
01:54:19  <glx> well it's not a patch file it's a paste of the patch ;)
02:03:45  <samu> if the owner of the lock is owner_none, will it still work?
02:04:05  <samu> i got to check this tomorrow
02:04:12  <samu> no time now
02:04:14  <samu> cyas
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08:10:47  <andythenorth> o/
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08:27:30  <Alberth> moin
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09:24:10  <chillcore> o/
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09:30:00  <Alberth> o/
09:31:05  <SpComb> o7
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09:39:06  <chillcore> not safe for work if people around you understand/speak french
09:39:09  <chillcore>
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09:46:04  <Alberth> I don't understand it :)
09:46:38  <chillcore> still nice melody I hope ;)
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09:53:00  <planetmaker> moin
09:54:43  <planetmaker> <-- Alberth that's nmlc's current changelog. Is there anything you think needs doing before it can be released?
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09:55:39  <Alberth> nice :)
09:56:03  <Alberth> I wouldn't know, nml & newgrf is still a big mystery to me :)
09:56:34  <Alberth> frosch would have a better idea about it, probably
09:57:30  <planetmaker> last evening I found out a new OpenGFX really needs a new NML, no sensible way around. And it can easier be 0.4.0 than 0.3.2
10:00:46  <V453000> :0
10:00:52  <Alberth> makes sense :)
10:00:58  <V453000> hy humanz
10:01:12  <planetmaker> hihi
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12:16:43  <andythenorth> o/
12:17:22  <V453000> \Q
12:18:24  <Alberth> birds-eye view :)
12:24:05  <chillcore> hehe, talking about birds, I have one in the back that likes cookies. This morning it flew down instead of up when opening the door. yay
12:24:36  <chillcore> Don't know what it is called in english. Merel in dutch
12:24:40  <chillcore> anyhoo
12:24:52  <chillcore> so much rewriting to be done still ...
12:25:15  <chillcore> first fixing this crash
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12:28:14  <andythenorth> hmm
12:28:24  <andythenorth> did I upload Busy Bee on my bananas account, not coop?
12:28:25  <andythenorth> oops
12:28:51  <V453000> BURN IN HELL
12:28:55  <andythenorth> yes
12:29:10  <andythenorth> I only have a bananas account by accident
12:29:18  <V453000> XD
12:30:05  <chillcore> imagine what would have happened had you chosen too ... ;)
12:30:29  <chillcore> -o
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12:34:53  <chillcore> andy: about them million USB drives ... would be so I could rip out all these hardrives out of them public computers and have those that have no computers at home bring their own OS and storage?
12:35:17  <chillcore> that weay they can be stupid as much as they want without infecting others
12:35:24  <chillcore> ?
12:35:49  <chillcore> not that I have the money ... nor jurisdiction to do that ...
12:36:34  <chillcore> those that run these pcs can still check traffic ...
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12:37:51  <chillcore> or limit
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12:41:10  <samu> hello
12:42:02  <chillcore> hello
12:43:46  <samu> i want to read yesterday's night chat log, forgot what I was going to do today
12:44:08  <samu> broken mind
12:44:55  <samu> ah
12:44:56  <samu>
12:44:59  <samu> found it
12:49:07  <andythenorth> chillcore:
12:51:41  <chillcore> Thx andy.
13:32:07  <samu> hmm before advancing into my next step
13:33:24  <samu> which is canal tiles built on top of river tiles to have a different cost than canal tiles built on non-river tiles
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13:33:52  <samu> i need to know how would the game handle destruction of a canal tile that was built on a river tile
13:34:08  <samu> it currently removed all, doesn't revert back to river
13:34:12  <samu> removes*
13:34:39  <samu> that is, in my opinion, wrong
13:35:00  <chillcore> ared you using buldozer or removal tool?
13:35:31  <samu> dynamite
13:35:37  <samu> there's no remove
13:36:10  <chillcore> ctrl+build click?
13:36:20  <samu> doesn't turn red
13:36:42  <chillcore> a challange ...
13:36:45  <chillcore> hehe
13:36:46  <samu> removing  isn't implemented on rivers
13:36:49  <samu> oops, canals
13:39:14  <samu> thinking of my future finalized mission, I would have river tiles that are permanent, but terraformable
13:40:40  <samu> have to do this in steps towards that goal
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13:43:23  <samu> i imagine i will have a hell of a job understanding slopes
13:43:29  <samu> and terraform
13:44:15  <chillcore> and rivers :P
13:46:28  <samu> if everything goes as planned, then the final thing to do is dried and watered river tiles, canals, locks, everything related to having water pretty much, and letting water flood up-level
13:46:50  <samu> up-level and down-level
13:47:32  <samu> then, the pricing structure
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13:47:36  <samu> i guess
13:47:42  <samu> and it's done, lel
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14:03:38  <Alberth> isn't the point of rivers that you cannot change them?
14:03:54  <Alberth> just like antennas and light houses?
14:04:32  <Alberth> ie making rivers non-deletable would be a good step
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14:17:17  <samu> back
14:20:52  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but then, why allow terraforming water at all?
14:21:51  <Eddi|zuHause> also, there may be cases for rerouting rivers, i.e. building a canal and then cutting off the river from its old flow
14:22:19  <Alberth> true
14:22:28  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i'd much rather have an algorithm that checks whether the river spring is still connected to the sea, and forbid destroying if not
14:22:41  <Alberth> +1
14:23:04  <Eddi|zuHause> also, same algorithm for city roads being connected to the city center
14:23:13  <Alberth> gets quite complicated perhaps
14:23:37  <chillcore> maybe just remember that this was a water tile when building canals to restore it in that case only?
14:23:38  <Alberth> ie you shouldn't be able to destroy the canal
14:24:42  <chillcore> even not if it reverted to river?
14:24:59  <chillcore> i like eddi's idea
14:25:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: there should be enough bits available to store whether a canal is used for river flow, to prevent destroying the canal in that case
14:25:43  <Alberth> chillcore: I was talking about eddi's idea, build a canal around something, destroy the river, and prevent then destroying the canal
14:25:52  <chillcore> if spring destroyed remove 'was river' flag form tiles
14:26:06  <chillcore> ah like that ye that is still a good idea
14:26:21  <chillcore> spring connect to sea whenever and always
14:26:22  <Eddi|zuHause> if destroying a canal/river with the flag set, invoke the pathfinder from the left to the right tile
14:26:50  <Eddi|zuHause> if alternate path found, invert the flag on this alternate path, otherwise, forbid destruction
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14:27:55  <chillcore> then just make those destroyed canals rivers automatically when if it is the last connextion to sea
14:28:08  <chillcore> might get heavy on the patchfinder?
14:28:11  <chillcore> i dunn
14:28:14  <andythenorth> ho
14:28:16  <andythenorth> rivers
14:28:18  <andythenorth> are silly
14:28:23  <chillcore> hihi
14:29:50  <Eddi|zuHause> invoking the pathfinder on user interaction shouldn't be significant...
14:30:15  * andythenorth usually just bulldozes rivers
14:30:17  <chillcore> true
14:30:50  <Alberth> andythenorth: it's easier not to make them :)
14:31:17  <chillcore> building rivers will then be very expensive too
14:31:32  <chillcore> first yuou needd to build canal then destroy it
14:32:11  <chillcore> only available on feb 29
14:32:15  <chillcore> :P
14:32:48  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: i don't think the player should be able to degrade canals into rivers
14:34:07  <chillcore> ok
14:35:54  <andythenorth> simplest idea
14:35:57  <andythenorth> remove them from the game
14:36:02  <andythenorth> just lower land instead
14:36:33  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you find that this is not simple at all.
14:36:34  <planetmaker> except on February 30th, of course
14:37:20  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: so only when playing with swedish localization in the 1700s? :p
14:37:34  <planetmaker> dunno, maybe? :)
14:38:27  <Eddi|zuHause> "if halloween falls on a friday the 13th"
14:39:41  <andythenorth> eh, how hard can it be to diff out rivers and canals? o_O
14:39:45  <andythenorth> break savegames
14:39:47  <andythenorth> problem solved
14:40:24  <samu> :) nice chat
14:40:36  <chillcore> it would clean out afterload ... two flies xD
14:41:09  <Eddi|zuHause> can we ban andythenorth? so many problems solved.
14:41:37  <andythenorth> there is no easy reverse diff for andythenorth
14:42:13  <andythenorth> rivers are rubbish currently
14:42:17  <andythenorth> :)
14:43:17  <samu> ah, when clearing a river, it clears it of water, but the river foundation stays
14:44:00  <samu> it will re-flood
14:44:33  <samu> in my vision, all rivers will be re-flooded no mater how much you clear them
14:45:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't imagine why comments are disabled on this song: (probably NSFW)
14:46:23  <samu> canal tiles won't be terraformable, even if they're built on river
14:46:43  <samu> I imagine the procedure to be like this: remove canal first, then terraform
14:46:50  <andythenorth> I’m really unconvinced that rivers are ‘solvable'
14:47:00  <samu> removing canal will not destroy the river tile, but will revert to river tile
14:47:03  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: then really, why even allow clearing them?
14:47:14  <andythenorth> respawn is problematic
14:47:23  <samu> because of pricing structure
14:47:25  <andythenorth> pathfinding to enforce flow is problematic
14:47:32  <andythenorth> making them immovables is problematic
14:47:33  <samu> must be cheap when clearing dry tiles
14:48:18  * andythenorth considers a hack
14:48:32  <andythenorth> enforcing an edge connection check when clearing
14:48:43  <andythenorth> horrible, pathfinder would be more elegant, but would be simple to understand
14:48:54  <andythenorth> so a river could be moved, but not broken
14:49:54  <andythenorth> an edge connection check (or pathfinder) should be able to enforce that the flow cannot be interrupted
14:50:14  <samu> terraforming a river is the bigger puzzle that i need to solve
14:50:26  <samu> in my head
14:51:45  <samu> in essence, I want the river to be always connected
14:51:55  <andythenorth> enforce that flow cannot be broken
14:51:57  <samu> what can chance is the slope directions
14:52:05  <samu> and drying them of water
14:52:26  <andythenorth> basically I am +lots to Eddi’s suggestion
14:52:49  <andythenorth> we need canals that are not so ugly :P
14:52:55  <samu> typo: what can change* are the slope directions
14:53:48  <Alberth> samu how do propose to have a slope changed?
14:54:06  <samu> that is part of the puzzle
14:54:18  <Alberth> since a non-flat, non-steep slope has exactly 2 corners raised at all times
14:54:22  <samu> it needs to know direction, via drag and drop
14:54:37  <andythenorth> also I should make that rivers grf
14:54:40  <andythenorth> with custom corners
14:54:42  <samu> similar to path signals
14:54:44  <andythenorth> so they look less terrible
14:55:00  <andythenorth> and locks should be two tiles
14:55:00  <samu> minimum is 2 tiles
14:55:04  <Alberth> andythenorth: make a newobject river :p
14:55:10  <andythenorth> and rivers should carve a canyon
14:55:13  <andythenorth> bah
14:55:14  <andythenorth> rivers
14:55:15  <Alberth> too bad you cannot bridge them :p
14:55:18  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: better locks need state machines
14:55:18  * andythenorth hates rivers
14:55:33  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if we live long enough, someone will do your state machines :)
14:55:35  <andythenorth> so many use cases
14:56:33  <samu> terraforming river tiles needs direction, and this is gonna be my headache
14:56:44  <samu> keks
14:58:49  <samu> terraform will need some special capability to "mold" a river into a slope direction
14:59:06  <samu> there is no possibility to build a river tile
14:59:10  <samu> currently
14:59:31  <samu> but I imagine that's something that I will need, and it's only available for the terraforming tool
14:59:41  <Alberth> start with drag/drop rivers in the SE ?
14:59:56  <andythenorth> you want river to follow contour?
15:00:05  <andythenorth> so when changing contour, river adapts?
15:00:20  <samu> i mean it like this: raise 2 corner of a flat river tile
15:01:03  <samu> what terraform will do is: destroy the river tile, not just dry it, but remove it, raise those 2 corners, then re-build the river tole as a slope
15:01:16  <samu> river tile*
15:01:51  <samu> demolishing via dynamite however, will only dry the river
15:02:09  <andythenorth> hmm
15:02:10  <samu> so, this ability to really destroy the river is only for this terraforming specialty
15:02:13  * andythenorth goes back to something else
15:02:51  <andythenorth> but yeah, rivers.  Maybe a new class of thing - not immovables, but uninterruptables
15:03:12  <andythenorth> also, why don’t we have glaciers?
15:03:14  <andythenorth> and lava flows?
15:03:34  <Alberth> /me has disasters disabled
15:04:01  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: i don't think you need to destroy the river tile for that
15:04:02  <samu> and the pricing must also make sense
15:04:16  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: but only allow changing both corners is... problematic
15:05:02  <andythenorth> lava flow might be a disaster
15:05:06  <andythenorth> glacier is just an obstacle :)
15:05:39  <andythenorth> also transport type
15:05:40  <andythenorth>
15:05:49  * andythenorth has been on that Brewster bus
15:07:14  <samu> changing both corners?
15:07:19  <Eddi|zuHause> well, we have glaciers in the alps, but not for long anymore :p
15:09:42  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: terraforming is done per corner. so in your "imagination" checking to change one corner requires to check whether the other corner gets changed during the same command at a later time (which may have currently unknown restrictions), and also checking that the other corners will not change
15:10:41  <Eddi|zuHause> so requiring to change two corners is both unweildy from a user's point of view, as well as from a programmers point of view
15:11:02  <samu> ah, I see, it needs to know which direction it is terraforming
15:11:47  <berndj> is there a way to set up bus routes so they don't cross rails? when maglevs get fast enough eventually collisions become inevitable when the train zooms in out of nowhere
15:11:48  <samu> if it knows, then I believe it can work for the remaining tiles, at least in theory, it's just that I'm not really totally sure of it
15:12:30  <andythenorth> berndj: bridges
15:12:33  <andythenorth> tunnels
15:13:10  <berndj> if i provide a road network that's grade-separated and dense enough, is the city guaranteed not to build its own crashy roads?
15:13:54  <V453000> just dont allow towns to build roads, easy enough
15:14:24  * andythenorth wonders how python handles circular refs
15:14:35  <andythenorth> I have a Consist object, which I store in a list in Roster object
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15:14:59  <andythenorth> and the Consist also has the Roster object in a property...
15:15:06  <andythenorth> I know it’s all references, but still
15:15:17  <andythenorth> seems like an easy route to infinite recursion
15:15:26  <andythenorth> or is that ‘programmer beware'?
15:15:56  <Eddi|zuHause> berndj: busses avoid level crossings, if a nearby route does not have any. and you can forbid towns from building level crossings
15:16:04  * chillcore hides from anything that has exceptions
15:16:27  <Eddi|zuHause> berndj: also, fast railtypes can forbid level crossings, if the NewGRF chooses to do so
15:16:36  <berndj> ah, if i can find that setting then i'll just use that - it feels undemocratic to not allow them to build at all
15:16:40  <Alberth> andythenorth: sounds fine to me, except perhaps some consistency problems
15:18:03  <andythenorth> k
15:18:29  <Alberth> circular references are handled fine in newer pythons, since python 2.<ages-ago>
15:19:06  <Eddi|zuHause> circular references are sometimes an issue with garbage collection.
15:19:09  <Alberth> if worried, just remove the list reference
15:20:58  <samu> dragging signals works
15:21:08  <samu> something similar will be needed for this
15:21:33  <samu> dragging corners
15:21:56  <Alberth> dragging signals?
15:22:07  <Alberth> I usually drag just 2-3 tiles
15:22:08  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: you can already do that
15:23:08  <samu> to decide which direction to terraform a specific river tile, it must know the direction at which it will slope the river
15:23:09  <Alberth> dragging road is more similar, imho
15:23:42  <samu> ah yeh, road yes
15:23:48  <samu> they have one-way
15:24:09  <Eddi|zuHause> that will probably not help you at all
15:24:50  <samu> no?
15:25:35  <Eddi|zuHause> you should better invest your time into removing the restriction of rivers needing both corners raised in a slope
15:26:20  <samu> but there are no graphics for that
15:26:40  <chillcore> yet?
15:26:41  <Eddi|zuHause> no, but they could be made
15:33:12  <samu> it would simplify terraform, I see
15:33:38  <planetmaker> getting those river sprites for the other slopes is not *that* difficult
15:34:21  <Eddi|zuHause> needs potentially a bit of fuzz for legacy NewGRFs
15:35:01  * andythenorth would draw them for TTD base set style
15:35:18  <andythenorth> I drew all the other bloody river sprites for the base set :)
15:35:23  <andythenorth> in all the variations :P
15:35:28  <andythenorth> drew / fixed
15:36:26  <samu> is water painted onto a river tile?
15:36:41  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's all one sprite
15:36:46  <samu> crap :(
15:36:54  <andythenorth> it’s many many sprites :P
15:38:07  <Eddi|zuHause> well, potentially the shores are drawn on top of a water sprite
15:39:48  <samu> how does the snow gets painted in a river
15:40:13  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea. actually
15:40:47  <samu> don't paint water, paint ice
15:40:51  <samu> if on snow
15:41:07  <samu> gee
15:41:13  <samu> i don't wanna draw
15:41:15  <Eddi|zuHause> flowing rivers don't freeze that easily
15:41:51  <samu> it shouldn't be painting a brown thingy if it's dry though
15:43:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i still have no idea what you need dry rivers for
15:43:09  <samu> ok, back to yesterday
15:43:14  <samu> i have something to finish
15:45:04  <samu> +glx told me i have to improve this coding block static void ChangeTileOwner_Water(TileIndex tile, Owner old_owner, Owner new_owner)
15:45:35  <samu>
15:48:06  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so uninterruptables?  Simple pathfinder check?
15:48:19  <andythenorth> can’t be much more sophisticated than the ship routing check on adding orders
15:48:34  <andythenorth> is there any pathological case where a river has two outlets to the sea?
15:49:01  <Eddi|zuHause> a delta.
15:49:05  * andythenorth wonders if there is no routing check on adding orders
15:49:18  <andythenorth> maybe it’s just crow-flies distance to next bouy / dock
15:49:59  <Eddi|zuHause> the order check is manhattan distance, probably
15:50:51  <andythenorth> where many rivers converge, the pathfinder could spend a lot of time evaluating dead ends
15:51:21  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the way i imagine it, a river gets (on map generation, scenario editor might need some handling of this as well) a spring and a sink assigned, and every tile in a pathfinder run between them gets a flag set that this river tile is part of a flow (potentially with direction)
15:51:50  <planetmaker> not sure that the sink needs assignment a priori
15:51:50  <Eddi|zuHause> if a river converges with another one, the pathfinder stops at this converging point
15:51:58  <andythenorth> so it’s cached, rather than checked on bulldoze?
15:52:21  <andythenorth> if tile knew next tile(s), then it’s just a list
15:52:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
15:52:25  <andythenorth> and the list can’t be broken
15:52:45  <Eddi|zuHause> well, each tile has exactly 4 adjacent tiles
15:53:43  <andythenorth> hrm multiprocessing really does break object refs
15:53:45  <andythenorth> nvm
15:54:56  <andythenorth> urgh, does mercurial actually feature revert?
15:55:36  <planetmaker> of course
15:55:55  <planetmaker> hg revert (for uncommitted); hg backout (for committed some time ago)
15:56:14  <andythenorth> ah backout :)
15:56:26  <Alberth> hg rollback  for undoing the last commit-ish action
15:56:27  <andythenorth> searching for revert just got me pages of people who haven’t pushed yet :P
15:56:59  <planetmaker> Alberth, with evolve there's hg uncommit ;)
15:57:25  <planetmaker> or you could hg qimport the last changeset
15:57:36  <planetmaker> many roads to Rome
15:58:02  * andythenorth uses backout
15:58:19  <andythenorth> see if that works :P
15:58:30  <andythenorth> that = Iron Horse broken compile
15:59:30  <samu> a river slope blocks pathing for ships
16:00:05  <samu> no matter what
16:01:06  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: so?
16:01:18  <samu> i don't know about the pathfinding
16:01:44  <samu> what I observe is that it needs a lock
16:01:56  <Eddi|zuHause> pathfinding is heavily customizable in that matter
16:03:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. a river flow pathfinder can have much different restrictions than a ship pathfinder
16:03:29  <samu> ah
16:03:41  <samu> so there must be two
16:03:47  <samu> one for water, one for ships
16:05:39  <samu> i thought water flooding behaviour was already done
16:06:04  <Eddi|zuHause> water flooding does not have (or need) a pathfinder
16:08:14  <samu> it needs to check the next tile adjacent to it, if it can flood it or not, and how to transform that tile when it floods, I guess
16:09:16  <andythenorth> that’s just ‘next tile’
16:09:20  <andythenorth> no pathfinder really
16:09:28  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: there would be no flooding in my suggestion
16:09:44  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: just a search for an alternate connection that already is water
16:10:03  <samu> coast tiles are transformed a little bit
16:10:39  <Eddi|zuHause> that has no connection to the problem...
16:10:58  <samu> every river will become "coasts"-alike, except how they're drawn
16:11:14  <samu> i think
16:11:24  <samu> but i'm not expert on that matter
16:11:27  * andythenorth whips the horse a bit
16:13:59  <planetmaker> <-- that will happen, andythenorth ;)
16:16:54  <andythenorth> apparently I broke it
16:16:58  <andythenorth> bundles is cross with me
16:18:09  * andythenorth looks at Jenkins
16:22:48  <andythenorth> hmm
16:22:58  <andythenorth> yeah, it’s going to fail on the failing commit :P
16:23:05  <andythenorth> it hasn’t built the 2 most recent
16:23:17  <samu> will this subtract 1 water maintenance to the owner_none?
16:23:35  <samu> ah the lines 39-41
16:25:59  <samu> i guess not
16:26:06  <samu> damn i forgot what I had to do
16:30:08  <samu> DoCommand(tile, 0, 0, DC_EXEC | DC_BANKRUPT, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR);
16:30:14  <samu> what's a do comand
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16:31:05  <samu> the tile bankrupts?
16:31:24  <andythenorth> company bankrupts
16:31:32  <andythenorth> dunno what that actually relates to though
16:31:49  <samu> it destroys a ship depot on bankrupt
16:32:37  <samu> it is pointing to tile
16:32:45  <planetmaker> I can try look later, andythenorth. But no promise I manage today
16:32:55  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I think it’s just failed to build on push
16:33:23  <andythenorth> oh actually no
16:33:38  <andythenorth> 1083: Codechange: move to a python 3 compile (experimental)
16:33:43  <andythenorth> will be the offender :)
16:34:00  * andythenorth forgot about bundles python version
16:34:41  <andythenorth> FIRS may have same issue
16:36:02  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: the command that it executes is the last parameter of DoCommand(P)
16:36:16  <andythenorth> ah no, FIRS has a branch for python 3, so default branch still builds
16:36:22  <andythenorth> ho ho
16:36:26  <andythenorth> ‘progress’ :)
16:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: before that are the "flags", which usually means DC_EXEC: actually do it (don't just check how much it costs). DC_BANKRUPT probably means don't let lack of money prevent it
16:38:51  <samu> ah, makes sense now
16:41:39  <samu> how could I tell the game is doing the right thing for the old_owner if this company bankrupts
16:42:16  <samu> i have no way to visualize it in-game
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16:48:06  <samu> bug or intended? start a game via Play scenario, then type in console restart. it doesn't restart that scenario
16:48:28  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it starts a new game with the same random seed as the old game
16:49:14  <Eddi|zuHause> that may or may not result in the same map, depending on other circumstances (like game version, settings, newgrfs, ...)
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17:10:13  <samu> doo dee
17:11:04  <Eddi|zuHause> dabadee dabadai
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17:11:41  <samu> i'm confused at my own code lol
17:12:02  <samu> i threw it in, and it works
17:12:29  <samu> but i can't verify if it works for every case
17:12:57  <samu> how do I play as the owner_none, if that is even possible
17:14:14  <planetmaker> you can't. owner_none is the game itself
17:16:04  <samu> i rather ask
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17:17:02  <samu> i have the code like this
17:17:26  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: you can make tests like that by setting a breakpoint, and wait for the program to go through that line of code, then single step and watch what the variables do
17:19:42  <samu> i forgot
17:20:18  <samu> if (!IsTileOwner(tile, old_owner)) return;
17:20:24  <samu> what does this mean
17:20:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that means skip tiles that are not owned by old_owner
17:21:11  <Alberth> that's why have generated documentation samu, there are tooooo many functions to know them all
17:21:34  <Alberth> so you can look up what functions do
17:21:49  <Alberth> +we
17:22:38  <samu> old_owner must be a company? or can it also be a no_owner?
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17:23:47  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea
17:24:04  <samu> :)
17:24:10  <Alberth> don't know either
17:24:33  <Alberth> read the source code :)
17:26:34  <chillcore> hmm if I allow changing values in scenarioeditor like in r27151  ... I do not need that _game_mode hack no more?
17:26:52  <planetmaker> what values?
17:27:06  <chillcore> smoothness ... for starters ...
17:27:14  <chillcore> just smoothness for now
17:27:46  <chillcore> i go into menu mode change and back to SE mode
17:27:49  <planetmaker> smoothness is a thing used during map gen... thus it's pointless when there's already a map. But it makes sense to allow setting those in SE when you're about to generate a map
17:28:29  <chillcore> ^^^ that ... i need to be able to change or this patch is pretty much useles haha
17:28:42  <chillcore> just that that hack is ugly
17:29:37  <chillcore> just the diffuculty setting though noy so for the params
17:30:29  <samu> i think +glx is wrong on this, or i don't see what he meant
17:32:33  <andythenorth> pythoon
17:32:34  <andythenorth> hmm
17:32:37  <andythenorth> typo
17:32:40  <samu> there are two ways to transfer ownership. Bankrupt and company merge. I always have to subtract watermaintenance no matter the case
17:32:51  <samu> why do i have to do it per case'
17:32:58  <andythenorth> not many translator commits in FIRS :P
17:34:48  <samu> subtract once, no matter the case, then if it's a merge, add once
17:34:56  <samu> if it's a bankrupt... leave it be
17:35:17  <samu> or am i missing the point?
17:36:58  <samu> what am i doing wrong, can you help
17:37:20  <Alberth> andythenorth: change more strings :p
17:38:06  <samu> this was correct already, and now it's not
17:38:13  <samu> :(
17:38:23  <samu> unless I'm missing something
17:39:00  <samu> let me show you my two versions
17:39:04  <samu> brb
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17:42:04  <samu> today's version ->
17:42:33  <samu> yesterday's version ->
17:44:13  <samu> which one is correct? or are they both doing the same?
17:44:36  <chillcore> Alberth I edited two pictures in my last post. thoughts?
17:45:24  <chillcore> that one still has a very still slope I know ... more shape of terrain there
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17:46:50  <chillcore> that is at level 199
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17:48:10  <Alberth> the detailed one looks quite useless?
17:48:58  <chillcore> with our without smallmap? the one without has the wwhole map like that ... almost no steaap slopes
17:49:17  <chillcore> IIRC. there is a lot of finetuning left i agree
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17:50:41  <Alberth> without smallmap
17:50:53  <chillcore>  it is stiil rough yes
17:51:19  <Alberth> you're generating a world, zooooming to a specific spot is probably less useful
17:51:38  <Alberth> (although no doubt there are users claiming the opposite :) )
17:52:01  <chillcore> prob is when I start toying with that I get mesmerized and no much coding happens :P
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17:53:03  <chillcore> in the end it is still simply going up yes, but you sometimes have to think wat route to take because the terrain is hardly terraformable
17:53:22  <chillcore> once towns and industries come into play
17:53:46  <Alberth> oh, toying has its merits too :)
17:53:46  <chillcore> industries create flats, which causes terraforming
17:54:18  <Alberth> maybe we need other terraforming tools too now
17:54:18  <chillcore> so they create and inaccesible side sometimes
17:54:34  <chillcore> yes ... still a few niggles
17:54:42  <Alberth> ie 16 levels high is quite doable by raising a single point
17:54:49  <chillcore> need shortening save load code
17:54:55  <chillcore> and loading presets
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17:55:09  <chillcore> probably yes
17:55:28  <samu> glx: hi
17:55:41  <chillcore> but for trunk I think these presets have priority
17:55:59  <chillcore> bugs me that peeps see that terrain as default
17:56:11  <chillcore> as custom it is your choice
17:56:36  <chillcore> anyhoo ... removing ugly hack
17:57:23  <samu> i am in need of help
18:00:15  <chillcore> <Alberth> ie 16 levels high is quite doable by raising a single point <- unless you are raising a really really long slope
18:00:29  <chillcore> then it hangs a bit ... at least it used to
18:01:11  <chillcore> unless you want to build a pyramide ... that does not happen much
18:03:17  <samu> glx, yesterday night you told me that I had to fix transfer ownership. today i look into it but i think there's nothing to fix
18:03:39  <samu> +glx
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18:05:24  <frosch123> [18:28] <chillcore> ^^^ that ... i need to be able to change or this patch is pretty much useles haha <- there is a difference between "current game" settings, and "new game" settings
18:05:39  <frosch123> you can change smoothness for "new game" settings, but it is pointless for "current game" settings
18:06:11  <chillcore> if I try to change smoothness settinh without my hack the game happily crashes
18:07:37  <glx> samu: it's not a fix, but an optimisation
18:07:42  <chillcore> I did not yet try after adding the SE flag
18:07:58  <samu> 00:05:16 <+glx> maybe you could merge the tests in ChangeOwner
18:08:38  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: the + is not acually prt of the nick :p
18:09:16  <chillcore> frosh: when you generate a new scnewrio you stat from scratch and the difficulty is changed
18:09:39  <glx> yes you have an if (is_lock_middle) followed by an if (canal && is_lock_middle)
18:09:40  <chillcore> but while messing wwith my gui the "game" has already started
18:09:47  <planetmaker> difficulty is a deprecated thing. It can't be different than 'custom' (=3?)
18:10:05  <chillcore> in a later stage the game is restarted again and that is fine, setting are kept
18:11:21  <chillcore> in my gui yes
18:11:26  <chillcore> not in the game
18:11:33  <chillcore> I load them in defaults
18:11:41  <chillcore> in custom I mean
18:11:44  <samu> aha, i think i understand what you mean, ok let me edit it
18:12:18  <chillcore> but for as far as the code is concerned if you select eg smooth and not change nothing you are not in custom mode for that setting
18:12:30  <chillcore> think ... score
18:12:48  <chillcore> it is disconnected somewhat
18:13:13  <chillcore> hmm how do I explain this ...
18:13:55  <chillcore> in tgen gui all is custom ... if settings match easy ... difficulty remains easy in score
18:15:07  <chillcore> I kept that behaviour intact ... i hope
18:15:20  <frosch123> there is no difficulty setting anymore that affects smoothness
18:15:51  <chillcore> hmm ok
18:16:13  <samu> here it is
18:17:07  <frosch123> savegame version 177 removes the difficulty level
18:17:31  <glx> samu: yes, but you forgot the new one :)
18:18:11  <samu> new one?
18:18:54  *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
18:19:04  <glx> 3 lines later
18:19:27  <andythenorth> bloody garratts :)
18:19:34  * andythenorth is having issues with articulated engines
18:20:03  <frosch123> are they better than issues with liveries?
18:20:43  <samu> ah, this part? if (GetWaterClass(tile) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL && is_lock_middle) {
18:20:55  <andythenorth> frosch123: yes, they are :P
18:20:58  <chillcore> frosh only 2.5k revisions ago eh ... :P
18:21:07  <andythenorth> just wrong length sprites, with wrong offsets
18:21:13  <samu> it needs to be inside the if (new_owner != INVALID_OWNER) {
18:21:26  <glx> but you can do the same thing
18:24:12  <samu> oh yah, i am idiot, it was right between these 2
18:24:18  <samu> ok let me do
18:26:02  <Eddi|zuHause> *mental note* you can't skip songs on the radio
18:27:48  <samu>
18:28:42  <glx> alignment ;)
18:29:56  <samu>
18:30:01  <samu> :o
18:32:50  <Eddi|zuHause> is that just me or should canals be not removed upon bankrupcy, because they are common infrastructure (like roads)?
18:33:21  <samu> they're not removed already
18:33:32  <glx> they are not removed, they get OWNER_NONE
18:33:54  <planetmaker> frosch123, I meant to ask you: anything you want to see done before nml 0.4.0?
18:33:57  <Eddi|zuHause> then that comment is probably misleading
18:34:00  <planetmaker> I need it for OpenGFX-next
18:34:22  <frosch123> - Feature: Cache position where previous search ended for more speed. <- what's that?
18:34:27  <Eddi|zuHause> /* Only subtract from the old owner here if the new owner is valid,otherwise we clear ship depots and canal water below. */
18:34:36  <planetmaker> frosch123, check commit logs. Dunno :)
18:34:38  <frosch123> not english, is it? :p
18:34:42  <glx> depot is removed
18:34:52  <glx> but canal stay
18:34:57  <planetmaker> probably your own words ;)
18:35:38  <frosch123> anyway, i have nothing that needs to make 0.4 or something
18:35:47  <frosch123> not sure how much work you want to put into the changelog
18:35:57  <frosch123> but it has a lot of redundancy
18:36:15  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: in english, word order is probably a bit more relevant than in german :p
18:36:37  <samu> where is the dock being removed in the code?
18:37:16  <chillcore> is it? Fun are words when mangled much.
18:37:48  <samu> is it a station?
18:38:12  <frosch123> planetmaker: no, by albert
18:38:22  <frosch123> still no idea what it is, even after looking at the diff :p
18:38:43  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: well, "die katze beißt der hund" means something different than "the cat bites the dog" :p
18:39:06  <glx> it's a station yes
18:39:20  <samu> docks disappear but I don't see it in this part of the code
18:39:21  <planetmaker> frosch123, I think something with the position attached to each line (which also is reported in case of errors)
18:39:25  <samu> is it somewhere else?
18:39:37  <planetmaker> thus data usually not exposed from internal structures
18:39:53  <glx> it's somewhere in station_cmd.cpp I think
18:39:59  <samu> ah, ok then
18:40:13  <planetmaker> but ok, thanks. I'll then try to come up with a release in the next days.
18:40:40  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: in german you can flip around subject and object of the sentence, should you want to put more emphasis on the object. in english you can't do that
18:40:41  <planetmaker> Not sure I want to spend much time on the changelog. What I pasted was mostly automatically gathered with very limited manual retouching
18:41:12  <planetmaker> However I updated man page and readme
18:41:57  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: because english got rid of the cases that designate which word is the object, and puts this semantics into the word order
18:42:41  <chillcore> I see. eddi
18:44:38  <Eddi|zuHause> (although in german it can get ambiguous, too, if both words are female)
18:45:19  <planetmaker> neuter, too
18:45:33  <chillcore> I can hardly understand the peeps i my own country, I doubt I would notive the difference :P
18:45:40  <chillcore> still intersting though
18:46:35  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: the difference is the article. "die katze [object] beißt der hund [subject]" vs. "die katze [subject] beißt den hund [object]"
18:54:24  <frosch123> now explain "die katze beißt die giraffe"
18:54:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i did that already
18:55:25  <Eddi|zuHause> if both words are female [or neutral], you also have to rely on word order in german
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18:56:16  <frosch123> sounds sexist
18:56:27  <Eddi|zuHause> the reverse order is also pretty rare
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18:59:41  <Wolf01> hello
18:59:50  <Alberth> hi hi
19:00:00  <chillcore> o/
19:05:27  <Wolf01> bah, why people don't remember they own email addresses and use MINE to do their stuff FOR MONTHS and they won't change also if you notice them?
19:05:57  <frosch123> s/people/your girlfriend/
19:07:00  <frosch123> though, grandpa would also work
19:07:12  <Wolf01> in my case is a guy with the same name who lives in another city and we don't know each other...
19:07:40  <chillcore> hmm contact your email provider?
19:07:50  <Wolf01> google?
19:07:54  <chillcore> first come first serve?
19:08:00  <frosch123> ah, you mean they registered your address somewhere
19:08:10  <chillcore> depends who it is yes ... google
19:08:11  <frosch123> i thought they hacked your account to use it to send mails :)
19:08:15  <Wolf01> the problem is they put the wrong address in outlook or such
19:08:47  <chillcore> it should not be possible ...
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19:09:29  <Wolf01> if you set that as "reply to" address, yes, it is
19:10:01  <frosch123> well, someone registered my ottd address to some archaeology conference :)
19:10:23  <frosch123> possibly a pun about the ottd code/interface :p
19:10:31  <Wolf01> ahah
19:10:38  <Pici> Attend as that person then.
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19:11:39  <Wolf01> when somebody register your address to a service, you should be able to unsubscribe or at least dissable the account (as I did multiple times with facebook and the other "game" address)
19:11:56  <Wolf01> the problem is when they use it in their cliend and use it for their job
19:12:22  <frosch123> na, always ignore unknown mails, put them in a filter, don't answer
19:12:26  <Wolf01> so you also get lots of reserved stuff, notify them, still get lots of reserved stuff
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19:16:58  <samu> i need to know what I can do about how would the game handle destruction of a canal tile that was built on a river tile
19:17:11  <abc> Am I right for asking a question to OpenTTD here?
19:17:49  <samu> more specificaly, i need authorization
19:18:26  <frosch123> sometimes this channel is about openttd
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19:18:52  <chillcore> <frosch123> na, always ignore unknown mails, put them in a filter, don't answer <- +1
19:19:29  <samu> can i change the way demolish works for river tiles?
19:19:55  <samu> oops, canal tiles
19:20:01  <frosch123> though i have special folder for very authentic fake mails
19:20:19  <frosch123> i like spam/scam, if it is done good :p
19:21:06  <chillcore> first you need to store 'river' tiles ... then everytime you demolish a canal compare tot that list samu
19:21:09  <frosch123> same as ads really, they are fine if they are good :)
19:21:37  <abc> i use OpenTTD version 1.4.4 and I am not able to find the option to build more than one industry of the same kind in a city in the extended options. (sorrx if my English is bad)
19:21:54  <abc> where can I find this option?
19:22:00  <frosch123> there are some filter options in the settings window
19:22:05  <frosch123> make sure to select "all settings"
19:22:05  <chillcore> needs digging in the code and compiling
19:22:36  <abc> where can I select "all settings"?
19:22:42  <frosch123> dropdown at the top
19:23:47  <samu> let me look at river
19:25:05  <abc> if you refer to chillcore: Where do I find the code and how can I compile it? I'm an IT-noob only wanting to play a nice game :(
19:25:20  <Alberth> samu:   ?
19:26:01  <chillcore> I was talking to samu abc. sorry for the confusion
19:26:50  <abc> oh, OK
19:27:08  <abc> can frosch123 answer my question?
19:28:31  <chillcore> since you asked. ;)
19:28:38  <chillcore> have fun paying ;)
19:28:51  <frosch123> <- abc
19:28:51  <chillcore> playing* woops
19:30:20  <Alberth> chillcore:   unable to read Temp_Adjust_API.diff    <-- removed it from the patch set, but not from series?
19:31:00  <chillcore> hmm let me check the zip ...I may have forgotten that one
19:31:17  <chillcore> it should be fine without though
19:33:05  <abc> frosch123, thank you for the link it was a great solution. sorry chillcore, this was to hard for me. I didn't realized the dropdown button at "Show" could be the solution. Now it works
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19:35:16  <chillcore> Alberth: uploaded
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19:35:52  <Alberth> should I try that one instead?
19:36:29  <chillcore> just stick the temp file it in you patches folder
19:36:56  <chillcore> if there is one ... it should be the same
19:37:07  <chillcore> I did not add widgets yet so
19:37:15  <Alberth> I did   rm *.diff :p
19:37:32  <chillcore> it is the third attachment in my last post
19:37:53  <chillcore> or adjust series .. as you wwish
19:38:25  <chillcore> there is no ai/scripts using smoothness? yet :P
19:38:55  <chillcore> I made it to be sure as moki was using NewGRF ..
19:39:34  <Alberth> that shouldn't crash worldgen, as there are no newgrfs at that stage
19:39:50  <chillcore> true
19:40:14  <chillcore> unless someone has a mofified menugame?
19:40:29  <Eddi|zuHause> menu game cannot use NewGRFs
19:40:37  <Alberth> windowy stuff is quite free of newgrf-specifics, except for the newgrf window :)
19:40:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the menu game is loaded before the game can find NewGRFs
19:41:32  <chillcore> less worries then
19:41:39  <Eddi|zuHause> [the only way to fix this is to run the NewGRF search on a black background]
19:42:14  <Eddi|zuHause> there is one exception: ActionF (town name) NewGRFs get activated on the menu, to get the entries into the dropdown selection
19:42:31  <chillcore> I had to move my data folder because of that ... grrr
19:42:32  <frosch123> except it is half broken for 2 years :p
19:42:43  <frosch123> well, actually for 5 years
19:42:47  <chillcore> a few GB takes a bit
19:43:00  <frosch123> since 1.0 :)
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19:43:45  <chillcore> then again ... if I am just playing i care less
19:44:07  <chillcore> start game ... grab coffee ...
19:44:19  <chillcore> when testeing it is another story hehe
19:45:21  <Alberth> grab tgen zip, put in patch directory, hit make, start chatting :p
19:45:24  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: could you specify "it"?
19:45:50  <chillcore> I hope I fixed it ...
19:46:26  <frosch123> fs#5819 - townname newgrfs fail to activate if the titlegame is a post 0.6 titlegame
19:46:36  <frosch123> i.e. it works in nightlies, but fails in all stable releases :p
19:48:28  <chillcore> noice
19:48:30  <frosch123> we should adjust the rules for the titlegame competition
19:48:41  <frosch123> savegames may not be made with ottd newer than 0.4
19:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p
19:48:57  <frosch123> (i believe it is 0.4, not 0.6, it must be from before newgrf were stored in the savegame)=
19:49:24  <chillcore> creatief met kurk ... sounds good frosch
19:50:05  <samu> can i build ship depots on canals owned by competitors?
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19:50:10  <samu> let me check
19:50:40  <samu> nope
19:50:44  <samu> t.t
19:51:13  <Alberth> chillcore: it fails to crash with me, so that's good :p
19:51:24  <Alberth> no idea what to do with the numbers though
19:51:31  <chillcore> k
19:51:38  <chillcore> picj somethings as first
19:51:53  <chillcore> then the next is half the aplitude
19:52:00  <chillcore> so for staying flat you go
19:52:07  <chillcore> 1000, 2000
19:52:51  <chillcore> try to keep your values in a range of 2
19:53:03  <Alberth> what I mean, it's not in user terms "more height", or "less water", or so
19:53:19  <chillcore> your pick ...
19:53:23  <Alberth> but maybe that's not feasible with these parameters
19:53:25  <chillcore> mapsize?
19:53:45  <Alberth> hmm, let me try again
19:53:57  <chillcore> I usually go for littlest water, no or little variation
19:53:58  <Alberth> I press "generate", the map is all wrong
19:54:09  <Alberth> now, which number to change?
19:54:15  <chillcore> hmm ...
19:54:38  <chillcore> it depends what you want ...
19:54:44  <Alberth> you know, because you understand the meaning of the numbers
19:55:00  <chillcore> I do not see your screen ... hehe
19:55:10  <samu> allow-drive through road stops on roads owned by competitors
19:55:23  <Alberth> but as I said, maybe it's not possible to make it more user oriented
19:55:24  <chillcore> hmm how to eplain this ...
19:55:35  <chillcore> set everything to 1
19:55:52  <chillcore> mapsize 2048 squared
19:56:06  <Alberth> write a wiki page is probably the solution here :)
19:56:10  <chillcore> heightlevel 199 or so
19:56:16  <chillcore> it is hard to explain
19:56:20  <Alberth> there you have room to explain things
19:56:20  <chillcore> you have to see it
19:56:25  <chillcore> true
19:56:33  <Alberth> but once the patch is done, imho
19:56:37  <samu> I might need a "allow water structure stuff on canals owned by competitors" setting
19:56:44  <samu> unsure yet
19:56:51  <chillcore> yeah that sound good
19:57:18  <chillcore> for now set scale to max
19:57:32  <chillcore> rest to 1 and generate
19:57:41  <chillcore> then start making your way down
19:58:04  <chillcore> 1 by 1 ann see how that influenceds things
19:58:21  <chillcore> maybe try to find some  nice seed first
19:58:27  <chillcore> with default values
19:59:03  <chillcore> then keep seed ... while making our way through
19:59:26  <chillcore> limit yourself to a factor of two up or down
19:59:39  <chillcore> taking into account that the next value is halved
20:00:03  <glx> <frosch123> well, someone registered my ottd address to some archaeology conference :) <-- oh mine too
20:00:10  <samu> how many owners can there be for a single tile?
20:00:11  <chillcore> it becomes obvious real quick
20:00:21  <chillcore> but you go out of bounds real quick too
20:00:33  <chillcore> them flats and steep cliffs
20:01:17  <chillcore> I believe safe would be 1.4 up max and 2 down
20:01:31  <Alberth>   I need a little more practice I think :)
20:01:39  <chillcore> ^^^ factors, but don't pin me on that
20:02:27  <samu> is it possible to have 3 owners on a single tile at all?
20:02:33  <Alberth> what does "keep" mean, isn't that "ok", or "close" or so?
20:02:38  <frosch123> glx: it does not include a flight ticket though :)
20:02:45  <chillcore> hehe up the scale a bit if you can
20:02:48  <glx> indeed :)
20:02:58  <chillcore> that or lower first parameter followed by rest
20:03:30  <chillcore> Keep closes this gui and opens worldgen
20:03:31  <Alberth> chillcore: it's ok, I don't have time for real experimentation now, will try another day
20:03:35  <samu> upper lock tile: owner 1, canal under upper lock tile: owner 2, bridge over upper lock tile: owner 3, is this possible?
20:03:39  <chillcore> no problem ;)
20:03:53  <chillcore> thank for testing anyway, much aprecciated
20:04:13  <Alberth> yw
20:04:16  <samu> and possibly a 4th owner, river tile under canal tile under upper lock tile under bridge
20:04:26  <chillcore> one more bug ticked of the list yay
20:05:45  <samu> tell me
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20:06:38  <samu> is this an impossible request?
20:06:40  <chillcore> multiple owners of the same object ... that gonna be fun
20:06:58  <samu> yeah
20:07:10  <frosch123> roal tiles can have up to 3 owners
20:07:29  <frosch123> 1 for road, 1 for tram, 1 for additional structure (like rail crossing, bridge, ...)
20:07:42  <chillcore> read: with infrastucture sharing I do not mind you running on my rails, I'd rather you not move them ...
20:07:53  <samu> i guess the answer is yes
20:08:50  <chillcore> yeah like that
20:09:50  <samu> there's no possibility to build a bridge over the upper lock tile right now, i ask why
20:10:07  <samu> was it because nobody thought of it, or is there some technical issue
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20:11:55  <samu> with enough bridge height, it could even be possible to build over the lower and middle lock tiles
20:12:44  <samu> so, can i do this?
20:13:04  <samu> start messing with game code to make this happen?
20:13:13  <samu> and pester you for help :p
20:16:08  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: look at how the code allows bridges over objects?
20:17:20  <Eddi|zuHause> "objects" being the eyecandy objects that NewGRFs provide
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20:21:32  <NGC3982> One of my servers are filled up with this:
20:21:53  <NGC3982> I cannot join the unnamed company, and the log does not fortell of any unnamed user or company being created
20:21:59  <NGC3982> Did i somehow configure this myself?
20:24:00  * NGC3982 should have Googled first.
20:24:33  <frosch123> what's the answer?
20:25:09  <frosch123> are they ais?
20:26:35  <NGC3982> Yeah, i managed to enable ai_in_multiplayer without an actual AI present.
20:26:59  <NGC3982> That's why i should never copy my local openttd.cfg to the server one.
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20:34:27  <samu> can you guys test this patch?
20:35:09  <samu> or how I submit it? is it
20:35:59  <samu> i don't consider it finalized though
20:37:08  <samu> the pricing structure for the lock makes "better" sense, but it's still not totally perfect
20:39:06  <chillcore> post it on the forums while perfecting it?
20:39:19  <samu> forum? i can't
20:39:23  <chillcore> not sure if FS is supposed to be used for developing patches ...
20:39:28  <chillcore> why not samu?
20:39:40  <chillcore> you are still locked out of your account?
20:39:42  <samu> i need my account to be unbanned
20:39:45  <samu> yes unlocked
20:39:58  <chillcore> I see ... I know what happened not going to explain here
20:40:06  <chillcore> contact orudge
20:40:27  <Alberth> I am sure we don't want non-finished patches at FS
20:41:08  <samu> orudge: hi
20:41:16  <samu> i doubt he will unlock it
20:41:30  <chillcore> yes he will but you need to contact him privatly
20:41:52  <chillcore> I can send him a reminder np ... but first contact him yourself
20:41:58  <chillcore> it is your account not mine
20:44:05  <samu> query?
20:44:11  <samu> here on irc
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20:44:42  <chillcore> tt-forums support iss not here no samu
20:45:12  *** Hazzard_ [] has quit []
20:46:13  <samu> this chat is in the forum
20:46:25  <samu>
20:47:05  *** samu [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20:47:20  <chillcore> ye but you do not ask for a account restore ina chat do you now?
20:47:34  <chillcore> email him?
20:47:44  <frosch123> chillcore: he closed the tab
20:48:22  <andythenorth> urgh, broken offsets
20:48:30  * andythenorth will defer that until another day
20:48:46  <chillcore> ok ... new account then?
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20:49:05  <samu> #tycoon ?
20:49:19  <Alberth> email?
20:49:38  <chillcore> pigeon
20:49:42  <chillcore> :P
20:49:58  <samu> who's that bukkit guy?
20:52:29  <samu> i give up
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21:39:41  <l4urenz> Hi
21:40:14  <frosch123> hai
21:40:47  <l4urenz> haven't been on irc for years
21:40:54  <l4urenz> but saw that openttd had its own chat xD
21:41:27  <frosch123> well, there are like 10 openttd related channels
21:41:45  <l4urenz> the website only mentioned this one :)
21:42:00  <frosch123> let's call it the newbie channel then :p
21:42:52  <frosch123> or is it the gate to trap you in the ottd hell?
21:43:11  <frosch123> where you have to build tracks all day?
21:44:58  <l4urenz> sure
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21:45:12  <l4urenz> thats more like a bonus i guess :)
21:45:36  <Eddi|zuHause> say that again when you're still here in 10 years :p
21:45:45  <l4urenz> haha
21:45:56  <frosch123> l4urenz: that's the trick :) until you read the fineprint about backseat gamers
21:46:14  <l4urenz> used to be on quakenet wayback
21:46:26  <l4urenz> but thats pretty much dead
21:48:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose the kiddies are not introduced to irc anymore
21:48:29  <Eddi|zuHause> too much new social media
21:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause> or online games have their own chats
21:49:04  <l4urenz> exactly. its more like fb messenger
21:55:55  <chillcore> goodnight all
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22:22:53  <samu> :( i'm going back to pricing canal tiles
22:23:58  <samu> think
22:26:09  <ST2> dnt think, play BusyBee :P
22:26:21  <samu> void MakeWaterKeepingClass(TileIndex tile, Owner o)
22:28:12  <samu> my brain is stuck atm
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22:30:15  <samu> * Only river water should be restored on appropriate slopes. Other water would be invalid on slopes */
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22:36:59  <samu> ah, the game restores rivers via this void MakeWaterKeepingClass(TileIndex tile, Owner o)?
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22:39:18  <samu>  this comment: If we clear the canal, we have to remove it from the infrastructure count as well.
22:39:31  <samu> but there is no way to clear canals, only demolish canal
22:41:28  <samu> MakeWaterKeepingClass - must understand what is this for
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22:51:28  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:59:24  <samu> question: Money base_cost = IsCanal(tile) ? _price[PR_CLEAR_CANAL] : _price[PR_CLEAR_WATER];
22:59:40  <samu> what does ? do in thhis
22:59:48  <samu> it picks one of the prices?
23:01:00  <samu> what is being decided there?
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23:04:37  <peter1138> IsCanal(tile)
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23:07:40  <supermop> hi
23:07:46  <samu> hi
23:08:10  <samu> question: Money base_cost = IsCanal(tile) ? _price[PR_CLEAR_CANAL] : _price[PR_CLEAR_WATER];
23:08:24  <samu> do you know what that ? do?
23:08:30  <samu> ? symbol
23:08:35  <samu> and the :
23:09:58  <supermop> me?
23:10:00  <supermop> no idea
23:12:16  <samu> is it deciding one of the prices for the base cost?
23:13:04  <samu> ok, it is
23:13:16  <samu> just tested in-game
23:22:53  <glx> it's the ?: operator
23:23:25  <glx> it's a simple if then else with assignation
23:26:53  <planetmaker> the ternary operator is nice. And a bitch. At the same time :)
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