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Log for #openttd on 19th February 2015:
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00:52:24  <Pikka> monsieur le supermop
00:52:43  <Pikka> I did start coding your tram, then I'm afraid I disappeared down to sydney for a week. but I'm back. :)
01:00:53  <supermop> haha its ok
01:01:00  <supermop> ive been modelling mmore
01:01:15  <supermop> ..and looking at flights to singapore
01:01:59  <Pikka> if you have any more finished, send 'em over. ;)
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01:03:21  <supermop> do you use google drive?
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01:11:11  <Pikka> I do not
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02:01:58  <supermop> ok no to singapore as my us passport expires in less than 6 months and it takes forever to get a new one here
02:11:17  <Pikka> whoops
02:11:29  <Pikka> nearly got the offsets on these first trams sorted, then they're ready. :)
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02:17:06  <Pulec> can anybody please try to access http://dfkl.eu ?
02:17:24  <Pulec> do you get simple white page or hosted by megavz.com?
02:23:56  <glx> a simple page
02:24:19  <glx> with only a <p>
02:24:34  <Pulec> yes, thats correct
02:24:52  <Pulec> for some reason when I try to access from my place I get different page
02:25:07  <Pulec> its probably because I am still coneted to that vps
02:25:13  <Pulec> thank you glx
02:25:21  <Pulec> I do recommend this vps host
02:25:56  <Pulec> €4.5 a year for good setup with no public ipv4
02:26:41  <Pulec> you have to play with proxies and stuff, but it works :-)
02:27:43  <supermop> oooh
02:29:52  <Pikka> :)
02:33:57  <supermop> haha watching this thing drive around is the best part of my day
02:34:38  <supermop> question aabout coding - is it hard to code a segment that sort of overlaps other segments?
02:35:25  <Pikka> "sort of overlaps"? well, you can't really do any sprite sorting. what did you have in mind?
02:36:56  <supermop> http://capsule-tower.tumblr.com/
02:37:23  <supermop> the top option of those yellow ones, how best to do the round part
02:38:13  <Pikka> put half on each so they line up when the vehicle is travelling straight, I'd say.
02:38:38  <Pikka> ie cut the round part through the middle
02:42:24  <supermop> what if i render the  front and rear with the shape of the round part cut out, would that solve issues with sprite sorting?
02:43:18  <Pikka> well, it'd look odd when going round corners. it's going to look odd going around corners no matter what. so I'd just think about what's easiest. :) making 2 parts with half the round section each would be easiest.
02:44:09  <supermop> ok i guess with current way roads are set up trams spend little time in corners anyway
02:44:20  <Pikka> si
02:46:12  <supermop> i may render these on a fake road so the aluminum bits and clear bits are less blue, then render without to create a mask to cut out the road
02:57:09  <supermop> i sent you some stuff i need to re do, just in case you are curious as to what ive been working on
02:58:34  <Pikka> nice :)
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03:05:38  <supermop> ok
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07:46:07  <supermop> yo andy
07:47:34  <andythenorth> moin
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07:52:38  <Pikka> moin
07:52:49  <Pikka> and such
07:53:55  <V453000> hyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
07:54:47  <andythenorth> lo Pikka bob
07:54:55  * andythenorth had a question
07:54:58  <andythenorth> what was it?
07:55:11  <Pikka> is that the question?
07:55:26  <andythenorth> might have been
07:55:37  <andythenorth> what ho Pikka?  Any new houses or jobs?
07:55:50  <Pikka> not really
07:56:05  <Pikka> should probably be looking for a job. uni goes back next week. :)
07:56:34  <andythenorth> “Work from home, make 00 a week"
07:56:40  <andythenorth> sure there’s one of those jobs around
07:57:20  <andythenorth> me and Dan are making SARS, was that the thing I wanted to tell you?
08:11:06  <Pikka> perhaps
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08:13:32  <__ln___> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/02/19/lenovo-caught-installing-adware-new-computers/
08:23:38  <dihedral> hi
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08:24:34  <__ln___> hello
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08:58:54  <andythenorth> bbl
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10:04:56  * andythenorth experiments with downgrading Iron Horse to python 3.2
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10:12:00  <andythenorth> hmm
10:12:03  <andythenorth> tedious :)
10:12:40  <Pikka> huzzah!
10:14:04  <andythenorth> python3.2 ate all my vehicles
10:14:11  <andythenorth> Pikka: so a cyclone warning eh?
10:14:27  <Pikka> mmhm
10:14:35  <Pikka> although it will just be a lot of rain by the time it gets here
10:32:23  <andythenorth> there is a lot of rain on my python :(
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10:46:45  <smoke_fumus> andythenorth: give it a year and it will eat half of your braincells and your programmer decency/dignity
10:46:49  <smoke_fumus> whichever comes first
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10:55:42  * andythenorth has no programming decency or dignity
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11:05:19  <andythenorth> bastards
11:05:40  <andythenorth> string equivalence checking changed between python 3.2 and 3.4
11:06:04  <andythenorth> 3.4 you can do  “if repo_vars.get('roster', '*') is ‘*’:”
11:06:18  <andythenorth> 3.2 you have to do “if repo_vars.get('roster', '*') == ‘*’:”
11:06:40  <andythenorth> downgrading is horrible
11:07:12  <andythenorth> I’ve been reading some Guido stuff, some of the stuff in 3.4 was added because 3.2 made porting from python 2 too hard
11:11:02  <Eddi|zuHause> so, then don't downgrade.
11:11:44  <andythenorth> no choice
11:11:52  <andythenorth> jenkins uses 3.2
11:12:07  <Eddi|zuHause> beat the jenkins maintainer into updating
11:12:24  <andythenorth> he’s busy
11:13:08  * andythenorth crosses fingers about this push
11:13:20  <andythenorth> wfm
11:16:11  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, installing packages not found in the repositories is rather a no-no for servers
11:18:19  <andythenorth> there are ‘standard’ deployment techniques to do it in an isolated way for python projects
11:18:21  <andythenorth> but yeah
11:18:31  <andythenorth> also the build worked
11:18:34  <andythenorth> so there we go
11:18:39  * andythenorth bbl
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12:02:54  * andythenorth has an ever-growing collection of virtualenvs for newgrfs :|
12:11:28  * andythenorth has increasingly actual knowledge about python :|
12:12:27  <V453000> asdf
12:12:39  * V453000 lost his brain to a game Factorio
12:13:34  <andythenorth> uh oh
12:13:53  <V453000> it is like minecraft openttd but a lot better than minecraft
12:14:25  <andythenorth> I’ve seen it
12:14:27  <andythenorth> haven’t played it
12:14:30  * andythenorth misses 2048
12:14:52  * Eddi|zuHause does not miss 2048 at all
12:15:38  * andythenorth goes back to newgrf
12:15:48  * V453000 too
12:15:49  <andythenorth> eh, should I convert Squid next? o_O
12:23:35  <V453000> "convert" = ?
12:23:45  <V453000> juzz code generation stuf?
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12:32:44  <samu> hi
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12:40:17  <andythenorth> juzz code gener8n stuf
12:41:34  <V453000> :)
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12:51:38  <Celestar> how can you 'miss' 2048?
12:51:51  <andythenorth> I was mistaken
12:52:12  <andythenorth> :P
12:52:16  <andythenorth> hmm
12:52:26  <andythenorth> the 5 year old is playing a 4096x4096 map
12:52:31  <andythenorth> it chugs a bit
12:52:57  <andythenorth> he is complaining that his buses don’t make money, and took a *really* long time to build
12:53:00  <planetmaker> hihi :) so small a human, so big a map, so huge the lag ;)
12:53:03  <andythenorth> because they’re travelling about 1k tiles
12:53:18  <andythenorth> so they only make money every 2nd year :P
12:53:56  <andythenorth> half the ‘problems’ of openttd are problems of excessive map sizes, or some other dimension that has grown too large
12:54:08  <andythenorth> 'moar' not always better
12:54:43  <Celestar> :P
12:55:41  <andythenorth> “I need complex ways to sort vehicle groups” -> too many trains
12:56:08  <andythenorth> “Game runs slow” -> too many vehicles / map too big
12:56:10  <supermop> new tram running tonight
12:56:14  <supermop> 6018
12:56:28  <andythenorth> Daylength, prime example of some stupidity with wanting to change dimensions
12:56:33  <Celestar> explain?
12:57:00  <andythenorth> all these dumb daylength patches
12:57:23  <andythenorth> which are never ever ever going to work
12:58:55  <andythenorth> which solves the ‘problem’ that newgrfs have too many engines
12:59:06  <andythenorth> so people don’t get to see enough of each engine before there’s a new one
12:59:10  <andythenorth> stupidest thing ever in openttd
13:02:24  <supermop> night
13:04:21  <Celestar> you mean engines coming at too high a frequency?
13:05:27  <planetmaker> basically they do, yes. And often there's only one "good" engine at a given time. But time flies too fast to even order an autoreplace
13:06:27  <V453000> idk about that, most train sets have one best vehicle for like 40 years
13:06:54  <V453000> but yeah, a parameter for introduction date scaling would make a lot more sense than time scaling
13:07:04  <V453000> s/parameter/setting
13:07:53  <andythenorth> so then they want daylength, but then industry production breaks, and costs need rescaled, and speed is wrong and blearch
13:08:02  <andythenorth> the whole game gets broken to ‘solve’ a non-problem
13:08:19  <andythenorth> http://www.poppyfields.net/poppy/songs/oldwoman.html
13:08:57  <andythenorth> it could be solved by capping the number of newgrf engines at 48 :P
13:09:45  <andythenorth> hmm, why does the original game have *so* many crap planes, all variations on ‘Darwin x00'?
13:09:48  <V453000> I dont think such a limit would do much
13:09:51  <andythenorth> did they have a deal with Airbus?
13:09:56  <V453000> xd
13:10:05  <andythenorth> Airbus are about 3 miles from where Microprose office was
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13:11:57  <Eddi|zuHause> aren't the darwins boeings?
13:12:20  <andythenorth> dunno
13:12:35  <Eddi|zuHause> darwin 400 being boeing 747
13:13:00  <andythenorth> another theory bites the dust :P
13:17:41  <V453000> first bridge coded =D
13:17:43  <V453000> lets see the shit
13:26:51  * andythenorth converted Squid to python3
13:26:56  <andythenorth> see if bundles eats it
13:28:19  <andythenorth> yay
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13:30:27  <andythenorth> now I just need to placate pyflakes
13:30:57  <Eddi|zuHause> "bundles ate my newgrf" is that a new song in the openmsx soundtrack?
13:31:26  <andythenorth> should be
13:34:22  <planetmaker> I hope not
13:37:23  <V453000> it eats everything
13:41:52  <andythenorth> Squid build is 8s
13:41:55  <andythenorth> not bad eh
13:42:11  <V453000> holy shitballs
13:42:25  <V453000> I think some sprite IDs are messed up in the ogfx spritesheet
13:42:28  <V453000>  /investigation
13:45:01  <V453000> aaand nope
13:45:02  <V453000> xD
13:45:09  <V453000> now to find hte issue
13:46:49  <planetmaker> V453000, maybe the template used in ogfx is not linear in referencing them?
13:47:10  <V453000> idk but the sprite sheet is just fine :)
13:47:14  <V453000> my stuff is just wrong somewhere
13:47:15  <V453000> somehow
13:48:10  <Eddi|zuHause> # irgendwie, irgendwo, irgendwann
13:48:46  <planetmaker> omg, Eddi|zuHause !
13:49:00  <Eddi|zuHause> :p
13:49:24  <V453000> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmfffffffffffffffffffffff
13:49:27  <planetmaker> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oas5nAlfrwg <-- for everyone to share in the horror ;)
13:49:40  <V453000> for some reason all of my sprites are moved by 1 in the sheet XD just cant find why so far
13:49:54  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a cover by jan delay or so...
13:50:06  <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIgQovuYiR8
13:50:08  <planetmaker> I don't know the cover probably
13:51:11  <Eddi|zuHause> when was that? the late 90s?
13:53:09  <planetmaker> nena? 1984
13:53:23  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the cover
13:53:26  <planetmaker> no clue
13:54:55  <Eddi|zuHause> "In 1999 Jan Delay with Denyo and Beginner covered this song for the compilation album Das gibt's nur einmal of the TV project Pop 2000 by ARD and Viva."
13:55:22  <planetmaker> I heard the original in radio when it was new ;)
13:56:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i did not :=)
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13:58:53  <planetmaker> damn, now I need to listen through my NdW collection :P
13:59:05  <V453000> ok my models were just swapped rotations ._.
14:01:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't listen to a lot of radio in the '80s.
14:02:03  <planetmaker> nor did I... but well, it was a hit back then. no way around it
14:03:05  <Eddi|zuHause> whenever we made vacation close to the border, my father listened to Bayern 1, which features more traditional bavarian music than the generic pop/schlager music of Bayern 3
14:04:24  <Eddi|zuHause> and this song basically escaped my radar until the jan delay version made it popular again
14:07:03  <andythenorth> bbl
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14:07:19  <V453000> offsets are just pure evil.
14:15:22  <Eddi|zuHause> today's earworm presented by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcV7VN3l3bY
14:17:30  <V453000> wtf.
14:19:20  <V453000> why even have offsets, we could just have a dedicated slave whom you could just throw pictures at, and they would align it for you
14:19:27  <V453000> I democratically nominate andythenorth
14:19:39  <V453000> oh he gone
14:19:41  <V453000> :(
14:20:38  * Eddi|zuHause just imagines a 'may the volunteer step forward'-*everyone except one person steps back* scene
14:21:01  <V453000> xd
14:21:05  <planetmaker> :D
14:33:34  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: but why are offsets a problem when you render? you can easily calculate the anchor point from the original coordinates
14:34:03  <V453000> I am not so sure about that
14:34:11  <V453000> the bridges have so many different wtfs
14:34:32  <V453000> but yeah somehow you could I guess
14:34:56  *** DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
14:35:01  <DanMacK> Hey all
14:35:16  <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
14:35:16  <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 28 minutes and 12 seconds ago: <andythenorth> bbl
14:35:26  <DanMacK> Of course... lol
14:39:41  <planetmaker> o/
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14:47:36  <Celestar> heya pm :)
14:47:52  <V453000> ok why the fuck are bridge overlays different by 192 horizontal offset, just between the rotations . _ .
14:47:54  <planetmaker> hey Celestar :) started to lurk around here again, eh?
14:48:01  <V453000> rendered to be at the same spot, just different rotation
14:48:04  <Celestar> actively, yeah :P
14:48:19  <Celestar> how ya been?
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14:52:02  <Aholm> i cant find my freind in lan networking? any idea?
14:52:24  <samu> firewall?
14:52:38  <__ln___> an imaginary friend?
14:53:04  <Aholm> he got mac - i got windows? is that a problem?
14:53:24  <__ln___> it's not a problem.
14:53:29  <samu> i have no idea
14:53:33  <ST2> try add server manually: LAN IP:port
14:54:03  <ST2> maybe not being advertised (but I have no clue either xD)
14:54:56  <samu> today I am writing down my price scheme
14:55:00  <samu> cus i keep forgetting
14:55:02  <samu> lol
14:55:21  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the anchor point must rotate with the object
14:55:45  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the anchor point is (almost always) the back (invisible) corner of the bounding box
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14:56:32  <V453000> hmm
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15:00:05  <samu> does the game allow building a lock where the upper tile is a canal owned by a competitor?
15:00:16  <samu> bah i will check it out
15:00:17  <samu> brb
15:00:56  <planetmaker> Celestar, quite fine here. How's been your time?
15:01:08  <Celestar> well the past week I was sick in bed :P
15:01:27  <Celestar> but that was probably the result of a 40 degree drop in temperature plus 11 hours jetlag :/
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15:13:11  <samu> i found a bug
15:13:36  <samu> upper tile and lower tile owners with land area information is misleading
15:16:25  <samu> if the canals are owned by someone else, but the lock is mine, when i retrieve land area information on upper and lower tiles brings up that it is a lock, but it is owned by someone else
15:28:24  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: if the town built the road, person A built the road stop, and person B built the tram rails, how does that look in tile info?
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15:30:03  <planetmaker> Celestar, where've you been? wizard of oz?
15:30:23  <samu> gonna check, brb
15:31:01  <samu> what's a tram? a newgrf? what is it
15:32:54  <Eddi|zuHause> tram is rails on the road.
15:33:01  <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/BridgePylonWtf.png
15:33:03  <V453000> 2 questions
15:33:11  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you can only build trams when you have a newgrf providing them
15:33:13  <V453000> 1. wtf is up with the pylons in the / direction
15:33:27  <samu> Generic Tram Set?
15:33:32  <V453000> 2. in the \ direction, why doesnt top pylon show over the bridge head :(
15:34:30  <Eddi|zuHause> / direction -> wrong offsets
15:34:38  <Eddi|zuHause> \ direction -> wrong bounding box?
15:34:55  *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK
15:35:01  <planetmaker> what Eddi says, most likely
15:35:09  <V453000>  / -> sure but all of them have the same offset, it is just one sprite of double pillar, not one
15:35:24  <planetmaker> or also wrong bounding box in the / case
15:36:16  <planetmaker> not sure actually that you can force successfully (much) different size than default pylons, V453000. If it's double pylon it's twice the width already
15:36:36  <planetmaker> pylons are a big bitch and hack iirc :P
15:37:11  <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/BridgePylonWtf_BB.png
15:37:13  <V453000> so like
15:37:23  <V453000> move the image, change offset?
15:37:25  <samu> land area information: bus station
15:37:28  <V453000> or is that even relevant?
15:37:37  <samu> owner: brimfield transport
15:37:46  <samu> road owner: brimfield
15:37:56  <samu> tramway owner: brimfield transport
15:38:09  <samu> wow
15:38:11  <Celestar> planetmaker: the last 3 months I've been on a journey
15:38:16  <V453000> hm
15:38:25  <planetmaker> V453000, it shows that the pylons are not covered by their bounding box really
15:38:25  <V453000> with zbase exactly the same bullshit happens
15:38:28  <V453000> in both places
15:38:45  <planetmaker> zbase no-one went to the trouble to properly check bounding boxes for lot of things :S
15:38:45  <V453000> in zbase it is even worse in fact
15:39:00  <V453000> well then
15:39:06  <V453000> what can I possibly do to improve it?
15:39:06  <samu> there can be many owners, woo
15:39:10  <planetmaker> Celestar, sounds fun? Business or your own free time?
15:39:15  <Celestar> own time
15:39:21  <planetmaker> sweet :)
15:39:23  <Celestar> about 60000km in total
15:41:12  <Celestar> yeah, should have done this sooner. and more often :P
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15:48:19  <V453000> any ideas :(
15:48:30  <V453000> I dont understand why does it work in original grafix XD
15:48:42  *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:51:25  <V453000> guess I could try to replicate the x1 sprite as much as I can
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16:01:40  <Alberth> moin
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16:08:19  <roidal> o/
16:08:22  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1930C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
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16:11:24  <planetmaker> \o
16:17:15  <samu> wow
16:17:18  <samu> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!735&authkey=!AOyJ2Xv4bquYb9M&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng
16:17:30  <samu> now i see how complex it is
16:17:37  <samu> i had this on my brain
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16:25:15  <samu> i can see this clearer
16:25:48  <samu> better do this for canal too
16:26:36  <roidal> http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Station_rating – is this table complete?
16:28:02  <roidal> because i have stations where everytime a train is loading, but stationrating never goes over 75%
16:33:08  <roidal> oh...hm...
16:37:46  <samu> gosh, these schemes are complicated after all
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16:38:45  <samu> build a canal on a canal with no owner that was built on a river -> costs 0, maintenance costs 1 and canal becomes yours
16:40:15  <samu> or maybe i just forbid building in there
16:40:30  <samu> what is preferible
16:41:20  <samu> already built error
16:41:31  <samu> or make the canal become yours?
16:42:12  <samu> if I think of a canal piece as a road piece
16:42:32  <samu> already built error goes in tandem with the rest of the game
16:45:21  <samu> better simplify this
16:46:46  <samu> build canal on a canal with no owner that was built on a river -> costs 0, maintenance 0 (because it's river)
16:46:57  <samu> damn i was falling on my own mistake
17:00:49  <Terkhen> hello
17:01:17  <planetmaker> hi hi
17:05:43  <andythenorth> lo
17:06:04  <andythenorth> planetmaker: so eh, you can defer touching python 3.4 for period [t]
17:06:10  <andythenorth> where t is up to you
17:06:19  <andythenorth> unless I run into a python 3.2 bug :P
17:07:24  <Alberth> specifically one fixed in 3.4 :p
17:08:05  <andythenorth> yeah :P
17:08:23  <andythenorth> btw, one of you might want to call pyflakes on nml src?
17:08:24  <andythenorth> :P
17:08:44  <Alberth> would scare all of us away :p
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17:11:34  <planetmaker> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pkvewouat <-- not that bad
17:26:12  <andythenorth> unused imports are meh
17:26:21  <andythenorth> only one syntax error and one undefined var
17:26:55  <andythenorth> the imports in nml/expression__init__.py
17:27:02  <andythenorth> are they just to register them in the module?
17:27:22  <andythenorth> module / package /s
17:27:26  <andythenorth> it slightly irks me that that there’s no way to tell pyflakes to shut up sometimes
17:27:55  <andythenorth> I don’t fancy calling .main() or .register() on every module in a package, even if explicit is better :P
17:28:10  <Eddi|zuHause> comment.py? is that from me?
17:28:38  <samu> i'm getting into trouble
17:29:23  <samu> construction methodology differs per object
17:30:06  <samu> it's like I'm playing the same game but done by 2 different ppl
17:30:19  <planetmaker> probably, Eddi|zuHause. It's not in the manifest
17:30:37  <planetmaker> andythenorth, I think the answer to your question is 'yes'
17:30:50  <samu> what were the plans you guys had for water construction?
17:31:19  <planetmaker> I didn't have any plan there, samu ;)
17:31:29  <planetmaker> other than build and enjoy
17:31:32  <samu> i try to explain
17:31:52  <samu> building a lock methodology is very different than building a ship depot or a dock
17:31:55  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but in my version of nml, comment.py:38 contains "self.text"
17:32:04  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, probably ancient
17:32:22  <samu> for example, building a ship depot only needs water
17:33:04  <samu> building a lock, creates water instead of giving an error
17:33:22  <samu> building ship depot on land doesn't create water
17:33:30  <samu> these two different methodologies
17:33:34  <samu> conflict
17:33:44  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eddi-nml/repository/revisions/b8517179317d/diff/nml/ast/comment.py
17:33:58  <planetmaker> not really. a ship lock is the sloped water you can build, samu
17:34:09  <Eddi|zuHause> "vor fast 2 Jahren hinzugefÃŒgt"
17:34:21  <planetmaker> samu: thus it's the same as placing a piece of canal - it creates water
17:34:32  <samu> it creates water for the slope
17:34:38  <planetmaker> exactly. My point
17:34:41  <samu> but, what about the other 2 tiles?
17:34:58  <planetmaker> it creates it htere, too, if needed
17:35:17  <samu> that's where I see a divergence
17:36:19  <samu> i'd prefer to "unify" the methodology, dunno the technical term
17:36:40  <planetmaker> I don't see there any need for any unification, samu. It all works along the same lines
17:37:08  <planetmaker> horizontal water ways and sloped water ways (=locks) create water. Building depots needs it
17:37:11  <samu> it will, but creates quite some mess for counting maintenance
17:37:57  <samu> a code mess
17:38:10  <planetmaker> worse than a user-experienced mess
17:38:13  <planetmaker> err.. better
17:39:38  <samu> i'm getting myself into a big mess
17:39:48  <samu> only because I want to structurize the pricing
17:40:33  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eddi-nml/repository/diff/nml/ast/comment.py?utf8=%E2%9C%93&rev=205b713768f3&rev_to=7702311bc344
17:41:02  <planetmaker> anyway... dinner | me
17:41:06  <samu> :)
17:42:27  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, the other change was python3-related, i think
17:45:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27155 trunk/src/lang/traditional_chinese.txt (2015-02-19 17:45:41 UTC)
17:45:49  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:50  <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 1 changes by siu238X
17:46:45  <samu> where are docks?
17:46:48  <samu> some other file?
17:47:43  <Eddi|zuHause> "Gegenseite: Tag found. Building 0.4.0" <-- that sounds useless
17:49:32  * andythenorth wonders why Squid compiles so obscenely fast
17:49:37  <roidal> hm
17:49:41  <andythenorth> both chameleon and nml steps
17:49:45  <roidal> openttd+python channel? :D
17:49:50  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: probably missing some essential part :p
17:50:01  <andythenorth> whereas Road Hog is slower, and Iron Horse is
like a crippled mule
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17:54:46  <andythenorth> 25 ships compiles in about 10s with no multiprocessing trickery
17:55:00  <andythenorth> 116 trains takes about 90s
17:55:05  <andythenorth> with trickery
17:55:13  <andythenorth> hmm, but articulated consists
17:55:21  <Alberth> track types
17:55:30  <andythenorth> graphics support
17:55:32  <andythenorth> depot sprites
17:55:36  <Eddi|zuHause> how do articulated consists matter?
17:55:52  <Alberth> more 'trains' :)
17:56:00  <andythenorth> because 116 trains are at minimum 348 item blocks and switch chains
17:56:15  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so there is your factor 9
17:56:16  <andythenorth> and every train with a tender etc adds at least 3 more
17:56:38  <andythenorth> no hiding from volume of data :|
17:56:57  <Alberth> make all values 1 :)
17:57:06  * andythenorth wonders if all articulated parts can be the same part
17:57:17  <andythenorth> think I tried that, it has
conceptual and practical problems
17:57:50  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i reuse tenders where possible
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17:58:16  <Eddi|zuHause> "possible" meaning "they have virtually same properties"
17:58:30  <Eddi|zuHause> [and looks]
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17:58:48  <Alberth> o/
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18:07:34  <frosch123> hola
18:11:21  <samu> hmm a dock counts to station maintenance, but not to canal
18:11:39  <samu> hi
18:12:35  <Eddi|zuHause> why would it?
18:12:49  <Eddi|zuHause> either you built it on a canal, then the canal counts for maintenance already
18:13:01  <Eddi|zuHause> or you built it on sea, then why would you pay maintenance for the sea?
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18:19:10  <Alberth> hi hi
18:19:27  <chillcore> hello all
18:19:45  <chillcore> and hello Alberth
18:20:00  <Alberth> :o  I am not part of all?  :)
18:20:28  <andythenorth> for autocomplete purposes, no
18:20:33  <chillcore> Maybe I am overlooking something and if not just throwing it outhere ...
18:20:43  <andythenorth> throw harder
18:21:46  <chillcore> I do not see an obvious way to reset all saved gui coordinates to 0 ... ingame I mean. I noticed when moving the running copy from one screen to another
18:22:32  <chillcore> sure you are part of all Alberth, your case just threw an exception ;)
18:23:10  <Alberth> throw new MePartOfAllException();    :p
18:23:33  <Alberth> sorry, too much java :p
18:23:51  <chillcore> hihi
18:25:33  <chillcore> I think I gt rid of all my magic nrs and the fugly hack too
18:25:43  <Alberth> nice
18:26:08  <chillcore> if statements are stll there though ...
18:27:44  <chillcore> one thing I am not sure about ... when clicking back in the scenario editor... it takes you  back to main screen
18:28:04  <chillcore> but you do not always come from there
18:28:54  <Alberth> hmm, titlegame by 22th, would that be feasible?
18:29:36  <andythenorth> why doesn’t java have ‘old SomeClass();’
18:29:42  <andythenorth> for reuse :P
18:31:02  <Alberth> use the Keeper pattern :p
18:32:04  <Alberth> could be fun, get a random instance of a class :p
18:32:24  <chillcore> I have some example code in  my patchpack andy ... feel free to browse XD
18:38:45  <samu> noticed another inconsistency
18:39:13  <samu> i can build locks on tiles owned by competitors
18:39:18  <samu> but not dock or ship depot
18:40:14  <andythenorth> locks are non-blocking
18:40:16  <andythenorth> usually
18:40:31  <andythenorth> not sure about depot
18:41:29  <samu> one other
18:41:52  <samu> building a lock on a canal tile with no owner (due to bankrupt)
18:42:01  <samu> will not force that canal to become yours
18:42:15  <samu> but in case of dock and ship depot, those canals do become yours
18:43:20  <samu> i need to base my prices on consistency
18:43:33  <samu> else I dunno how to price things
18:46:06  <Alberth> throw a dice :p
18:48:39  <samu> okay
18:49:31  <samu> i would prefer canals with no owner to still have no owner, instead of forcing them to become yours
18:49:49  <samu> that would mean, have to edit dock and ship depot code
18:49:52  <samu> :(
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18:50:36  <samu> but what about you
18:50:38  <samu> main devs
18:51:37  <Alberth> we do what is conceptually the right solution, usually
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18:51:59  <Alberth> time doesn't mean a lot in an unpaid project
18:53:47  <andythenorth> or we argue endlessly about an issue ;)
18:53:50  <andythenorth> with no progress
18:54:19  <andythenorth> fortunately RoadTypes would add nothing to gameplay anyway
18:57:20  <chillcore> they should ... on dirt road you should lose 7.35% of your patatos every 100 tiles. :P
18:57:34  <chillcore> on sundays that is ...
18:58:00  <andythenorth> depends on what tyres you have
18:58:07  <andythenorth> and if it’s ‘raining’
18:58:14  * andythenorth invents ‘weather’ in openttd
18:58:19  <chillcore> hmm good point
18:58:23  <andythenorth> you can’t see it, but it has hidden effects on gameplay
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18:58:30  <andythenorth> newgrfs can access it
18:58:32  <andythenorth> hmm
18:58:45  <andythenorth> in autumn, trains should accelerate and brake more slowly
18:58:46  <chillcore> *me assigns night and day to someone
18:58:47  <andythenorth> due to leaves
19:04:33  <samu> must look at what happens with bus stops
19:10:29  <samu> okay bus stops on roads with no owner won't force the road to become yours
19:10:59  <samu> 2 vs 2
19:11:04  <samu> nice tie
19:12:53  <samu> now checking when a road belongs to local authority
19:14:30  <samu> road still belongs to local authority
19:14:35  <samu> after bankrupt
19:15:40  <samu> maintenance counting, let me check
19:18:17  <samu> woah, whoever worked on roads must have had a hell of a job
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19:21:42  <Wolf01> hi hi
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19:26:45  <chillcore> hehe samu ...
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19:28:44  <chillcore> hint samu ... it is local authority not local ownership ;)
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19:41:32  <samu> this is going to be handy
19:41:34  <samu> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!727&authkey=!AGBG83CxA0fiT8A&ithint=file%2cxlsx
19:48:16  <samu> 5000 is such a huge number
19:49:14  <samu> haven't figured out a base price for a water piece
19:49:22  <samu> canal piece
19:50:29  <samu> but as you see, in my vision, i intend it to be taken into account
19:50:42  <samu> for different parts of infra stuff
19:50:48  <samu> objects
19:50:51  <samu> whatever it's called
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19:54:09  <samu> i could perhaps simplify this again
19:54:34  <samu> if i am to follow the same logic that roads do
19:57:35  <samu> and i am back to the same dilema
19:58:03  <samu> okay I need to ask this
19:58:16  <samu> what plans do you have for rivers?
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19:58:51  <samu> can i have a secondary price for building canals on river tiles?
19:59:21  <samu> but which aren't based on the price of canal? is it possible to create one more base price?
19:59:51  <samu> otherwise, it will cost 0
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20:00:28  <Eddi|zuHause> sure, you can add base prices
20:00:55  <Eddi|zuHause> you can look at the revision history of the file to see how it's done
20:01:40  <samu> what happens when i build a canal on a river tile? what would happen if it costs 0?
20:01:49  <samu> does it say already built?
20:03:01  <samu> can I, for instance, force the game not to build based on the cost being 0?
20:03:43  <Eddi|zuHause> no, you need to return an error if you want it not built. 0 cost is just costing nothing
20:04:27  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also have negative costs, then you get money back
20:04:35  <Eddi|zuHause> (e.g. removing rails does this)
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20:05:55  <samu> hmm, can i do math operations on the base price?
20:06:35  <samu> like, base_canal/2
20:06:48  <samu> if the base is 5000, then building on river costs 2500?
20:07:26  <samu> that would avoid creating a whole new base price
20:08:11  <Eddi|zuHause> sure
20:08:27  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's less clean
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20:09:17  <samu> okay, thanks, i'll look at the possibilities
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20:59:50  <chillcore> good night all.
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21:02:18  <Terkhen> good night
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21:17:05  <samu> what is DC_AUTO?
21:17:31  <samu> CommandCost ret = DoCommand(tile, 0, 0, flags, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR);
21:17:43  <samu> sometimes there's flags | DC_AUTO
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21:22:29  <glx> there should be a comment near DC_AUTO declaration
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21:24:52  <samu>  Update infrastructure counts after the unconditional clear earlier.
21:25:09  <samu> what do they mean unconditional clear
21:25:29  <Eddi|zuHause> shoot first, ask qestions later.
21:26:44  <samu> so basically, i want the game not to clear water or river or canal or sea
21:26:52  <samu> just don't clear
21:27:14  <samu> confused
21:27:30  <samu> why is there a clear command here
21:28:36  <samu> it's water!
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21:33:25  <Eddi|zuHause> clear turns water into dirt
21:33:59  <samu> hmm why is it there then
21:34:36  <samu> CommandCost CmdBuildShipDepot(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags, uint32 p1, uint32 p2, const char *text)
21:34:44  <samu> i'm mid way into this block
21:35:50  <samu> CommandCost cost = CommandCost(EXPENSES_CONSTRUCTION, _price[PR_BUILD_DEPOT_SHIP]);
21:35:55  <samu> after this
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22:02:28  <Eddi|zuHause> how should i know?
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22:47:14  <supermop> yo
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23:02:52  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:10:07  <samu> i need help
23:10:13  <samu> MakeShipDepot
23:10:38  <samu> is it possible to MakeShipDepot maintain the owner of the canal?
23:11:11  <samu> how do i do
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23:18:11  <samu> what happened to irc
23:18:42  <samu> a
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23:21:11  <samu> f
23:26:57  <samu> is anyone here?
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23:54:05  <samu> i have a question
23:54:38  <samu> how do i build a ship depot that maintains the owner of canals?
23:56:16  <samu> i want to do it much like a bus stop
23:56:33  <samu> a drive-through
23:56:55  <samu> but for ships
23:57:03  <samu> and without turning it into a station

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